How long will we continue to allow him to turn metafilter into his own chat room?
September 12, 2003 9:42 PM   Subscribe

It's bad enough he posts a weak, vapid message about basically nothing... but he's done it twice now, within 6 months, using the same links. How long will we continue to allow him to turn metafilter into his own chat room?
posted by crunchland to Etiquette/Policy at 9:42 PM (364 comments total)


posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:53 PM on September 12, 2003


a weak, vapid message about basically nothing...

No, they were about Portugal. But I agree, we should impose a strict one-Portugal-front-post-per-year policy. Oh, and while we're at it, let the Americans know they can keep posting about everything that happens in their country.

Or, maybe, not.
posted by The God Complex at 9:59 PM on September 12, 2003


Percentage of respondents with low energy expenditure
Portugal 87.8

Countries' world ranking and their annual alcohol consumption per person in litres
1st Portugal, 11.3

And it's the weekend. I think that explains it.
posted by philfromhavelock at 10:39 PM on September 12, 2003


I have to ask: Miguel, what gives here? What's going on?

God Complex, check out the links, they're exactly the same in both posts, and he was the poster. I don't know about you, but that's just wrong.
posted by ashbury at 10:40 PM on September 12, 2003


I think crunchland takes a little too harsh a tone here, but his point is valid: Miguel basically made a deliberate double-post and it's very hard to suggest he wasn't aware he was posting two of the exact same links he posted before.

I know I've posted FPPs too where I really expected/hoped for more responses than I ended up getting in the comments, so I can understand the desire to bring up the subject again and again (as if there were only two posts in six months about, you know, Iraq or anything obscure like that.)

I disagree with crunchland's suggestion that Miguel is desperate to turn this site into his own, but I do agree that this is a double-post. Not only that, it was done in a way to attempt being detected as such. That makes it feel worse.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 10:44 PM on September 12, 2003


maybe he was checking to see if we were paying attention?
or was too drunk and lazy to realize? ; >
posted by amberglow at 10:56 PM on September 12, 2003


The post demonstrates laziness, a desperate greed to post, and an impairment of judgment which suggests that he might be drunk. He is Portugese, after all. ;)
posted by homunculus at 10:58 PM on September 12, 2003


I don't think I'm alone when I say I'm sick of his "I like X. Do you like X? What is your favorite kind of X?" style of formulaic posting.

There are lots of forums out on the internet that allow this sort of chatty bullshit, but Metafilter isn't supposed to be one of them.
posted by crunchland at 10:58 PM on September 12, 2003


amberglow, I salute you.
posted by homunculus at 11:00 PM on September 12, 2003


It's a tag-team thing, homunculus

They are formulaic, crunch, but people seem to like them. (and they usually get more responses from the international crowd, which is a good thing.) I wish he would mix it up a little more, but there are a bunch of posters who usually stick to one style of post.
posted by amberglow at 11:09 PM on September 12, 2003


There's only one solution here.


posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:11 PM on September 12, 2003


Shit o' dear. It was a stupid question with little thought: What do you hate and love about your country. homunculous describes it perfectly:

The post demonstrates laziness, a desperate greed to post, and an impairment of judgment which suggests that he might be drunk.
posted by Wulfgar! at 11:13 PM on September 12, 2003


crash ...terrific graphic. I'm printing that and posting it on my office door.
posted by Wulfgar! at 11:14 PM on September 12, 2003


It's bad enough he posts a weak, inline image about basically Miguel... but he's done it twice now, within two weeks, using the same link.

Not that I mind, mind you--

As for Miguel, I just hope it's not Alzheimer's
posted by y2karl at 11:16 PM on September 12, 2003


I suspect that it's an honest mistake, that Miguel has a bucket full of potential posts that he writes in bursts and from which he cherrypicks one when he feels like putting something up, and that this was just a matter of carelessness.

Just a guess. Still, a good spanking is called for if only for being so incautious, and I'm not superfond of the "I like X. Do you like X? What is your favorite kind of X?" posts either.

Bend over, Migs! (time for a faux-gay pseudo-Marxist spanking)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:22 PM on September 12, 2003


I'm still unsure whether this MeTa thread is "serious" or just a bit of having fun.
posted by davidmsc at 11:27 PM on September 12, 2003


I'm pretty much with you, Stavros--that's how I saw it. And look, if the Owner doesn't like it, he'll pull it. If he doesn't mind it, he'll leave it in. As for the style of post, no one person can call the shots for everyone here but him. And he pretty much doesn't. Which is a good thing. King Log always beats King Stork.
posted by y2karl at 11:33 PM on September 12, 2003


Poor Miguel. It's difficult to hear so many harsh things said about someone so affable, so often thick-skinned and very very intelligent. But it's understandable. Is he a glutton for punishment? Attention-seeking? Simply forgetful? After two years of observing his strange tics & follies on MeFi, I only know two things for sure--he's a lazy and a drunkard. He's Portguese after all. So sad.
posted by dhoyt at 11:34 PM on September 12, 2003


re: boycott miguel image

The t at the end of boycott is hanging off the edge of the sign in midair. That must have been one amazing marker.
posted by bargle at 11:34 PM on September 12, 2003


maybe it's yarn, or licorice?
posted by amberglow at 11:38 PM on September 12, 2003


time for a faux-gay pseudo-Marxist spanking

The opiate of the asses?
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 11:42 PM on September 12, 2003


Hmmm. MetaDome.com and MetaDome.net are both taken. MetaDome.org appears to be available, tho'.

Maybe when MetaTalk just isn't enough?
posted by weston at 12:00 AM on September 13, 2003


Maybe Miguel got caught in a time warp. That would certainly explain his previous absence.

I wish people would stop flogging Miguel's dead horse though. It's dusty and that makes me cough.
posted by konolia at 12:13 AM on September 13, 2003


Metafilter: It's dusty and it makes me cough.
posted by WolfDaddy at 1:41 AM on September 13, 2003


OI! m_c_d!

Nice graphic indeed...'specially as someone has half-inched the pic from me!!

I have been violated! I demand something! [/Sally Brown]

In other news...

a) I'm fully behind (oo-er!) the new psuedo gay Marxist direction that MeTa is heading these days. Keeps it fresh y'know;

b) Altho' Migs has probably edged across a fuzzy line in this particular case, in general, anything related to food & drink - especially cocktails - from the Lisbon corner is fine by me;

c) The direction this MeTa thread is taking (and many others previously) should indicate the level of chattiness that seems to be the norm round these here parts, &

d) Nothing below a 'c' today - you've all passed!
posted by i_cola at 2:11 AM on September 13, 2003


Shouldn't Miguel be dragging himself into MeTa over this?
posted by arto at 3:12 AM on September 13, 2003


"How long will we continue to allow him to turn metafilter into his own chat room?"

it's not that "we continue to allow him" -- it's that Matt doesn't really has a problem with it, so we're stuck with Miguel's LiveJournal on MeFi and MeTa.

I don't think Miguel ran out of ideas so bad that he had to cannibalize his own massive output (during really slow days, he simply checks out bifurcated riverts and rehashes some of their material, with a MeFi poll tacked on). he probably just really really likes to talk with others about Portugal -- being probably the only Portuguese member (anyway the only one who's so active) he's the only authority on the subject here -- a role he clearly relishes -- not to mention that talking about Portugal fuels his own keen interest in navel-gazing.

but again, as for the "Miguel's chatroom" argument, it's a loser. he seems reluctant to make an English version of his Portuguese blog, so he chose MetaFilter as his personal English-language blog (with occasional posts from others).

weird? annoying for many other users? yes, but the owner of this site doesn't have a problem with it, hence, pardon my Portuguese, tough shit
posted by matteo at 3:31 AM on September 13, 2003


oh, and steve, the only way to boycott miguel is to ignore his weaker fpp's: but even those who do that have to live with the (sad) reality that he has his own vocal fan club here, and a good number of users seem to dig MiguelPolls, about everything from cocktails to toilet habits.

if he got, say, 3 comments per thread, he'd probably slow down his output. but it doesn't happen, hence, see my previous comment
posted by matteo at 3:36 AM on September 13, 2003


Crimony. There are a whole bunch of people here who essentially post the same links over and over again and are truly obnoxious, dogmatic, ideological thugs, but I don't see them getting dragged in here for a spanking the way Migs does. What is it about him that gets everyone's panties in such a bunch?
posted by MrBaliHai at 5:34 AM on September 13, 2003


The best thing about Miguel's posts these days is that all the usual suspects are blowing off in Metatalk rather than screwing up the thread. It's great, just like having a killfile.
posted by grahamwell at 5:39 AM on September 13, 2003


It's bad enough he posts a weak, vapid message about basically nothing...

If you don't like somebody else's post, or the way posts are these days, or anything along those lines, why don't you put up some good FPP's instead of loudly demanding that other people do a better job of entertaining you for free?

Like most things on the net (newsgroups, listservs especially), Metafilter will be what the people posting to it and commenting on it make of it. If you don't like something about the way it's going, then go and actively make what you like of it -- post what's good, write good comments. Complaining that miguel's posts are just polls, or that he's turning mefi into a chatroom, is about as useful as the endless series of usenet posts bitching about offtopic posting -- on alt. groups.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:38 AM on September 13, 2003


ROU, Crunchland does post loads of good FPPs.
posted by Jimbob at 7:10 AM on September 13, 2003


I like the way these comments are headed! One thing Miguel doesn't do is chronically bitch about other members ruining the place. Jeez, it's not like we're so overstuffed with good manners and good cheer here that we have to have a fire sale to get rid of them. Also, MrBaliHai should post more often. Way more often.
posted by y2karl at 7:24 AM on September 13, 2003


Honestly, after a good 8 hour nappy, I admit I was a little over-the-top cranky last night when I posted this thread, but it was half tongue-in-cheek at the same time. I'm sure Miguel just made an honest mistake.

I do think he should toss out his formula for writing a front-page post, but, as others have mentioned, after all this time, he's attracted a following who (inexplicably) like that sort of thing.

We should have nipped Miguel in the bud a long time ago. Not that we didn't try... Miguel has been chastised before, and is apparently completely unrepentant.

Apparently, it's not about what Metafilter is supposed to be, at this point. It's about what Metafilter has become because of it.
posted by crunchland at 7:38 AM on September 13, 2003


King Log always beats King Stork.

Is that a reference to Ladislaw Starewicz, y2karl? If not, what does it mean?

maybe it's yarn, or licorice?

amberglow, you should be required to comment in every thread. You're funny AND nice. I laughed out loud, although sadly, no spewing of liquids was involved.
posted by iconomy at 8:06 AM on September 13, 2003


The Frog King is one of Aesop's Fables.
posted by y2karl at 8:24 AM on September 13, 2003


[OT]

Also, MrBaliHai should post more often.

Thanks, man. I've been on the road and busy maintaining my own 'blog lately. I'm trying to get back into the swing, but I'm heading back out over the Pond today, so my profile will have remain low for a couple more weeks.

And iconomy, is back too! Yay!

[/OT]
posted by MrBaliHai at 8:25 AM on September 13, 2003


There are a whole bunch of people here who essentially post the same links over and over again and are truly obnoxious, dogmatic, ideological thugs

"thugs"?




ps also, mrBali, it's not that Miguel posted "essentially the same links" (even if it's also true, he's always posting lots of very similar fpp's), he actually double-posted himself, same topic + same links, and it means that either he posts so much that he forgets about his past fpp's -- a very real possibility if you consider his output -- or he just felt like taking, again, the same poll between users, because he felt like it and digs the "what's your favorite ___ " threads because his fan club likes them and gives them lots of comments, and hoped (or knew) that Matt would allow him to do exactly that. and he's probably right

posted by matteo at 8:31 AM on September 13, 2003


[also OT]
Well thanks, MrBaliHai! I've been here all along - just not commenting as much. Too much arguing and pissing and mysterious, strange, bewildering male hormonal goings-on lately. I visit almost every day though, even if it's just for a quick skim.

y2karl, I thought you were referencing Starewicz's "The Frogs Who Wanted a King", which I now see is based on an Aesop's Fable. Did not know that. Thanks.
[ /also OT]
posted by iconomy at 8:47 AM on September 13, 2003


matteo: I'm talking about people who aren't here to engage in any type of genuine discussion, or show us something really cool, they just want to push their favorite agenda, or other people's buttons or both. Largely humorless, disrespectful of other peoples opinions, absolutely convinced of their own self-righteousness, and condescending to those who think that the world is a slightly greyer place than they do. To me, these folks are little better than hitmen for their chosen ideology, hence "thugs", although I might also be tempted to label them as secular evangelists.

Miguel is none of those things, in fact he's quite the antithesis. His occasionally formulaic posting style aside, he actually seems to possess a lot of the qualities that folks here claim to aspire to, but rarely display: humor, intelligence, objectivity, and a thick skin, hence my puzzlement over why he draws so much fire when more badly behaved members of this community seem to get a free ride.

And yes, I do realize that Miguel had a little brain fart there and posted exactly the same thing twice, but I don't see much difference between that and someone who posts a several different links over the course of a month or two that are simply variations on the exact same theme.
posted by MrBaliHai at 9:11 AM on September 13, 2003


Has anyone even asked Miguel?

I don't see him in here, so I'd have to guess the answer would be "no".

Egad.

As for double posting one's own links... I've almost done that on a number of occasions. So it's not beyond comprehension that Miguel may have done this.

He loves his country (... I just wish that he'd find some _great_ Portugal links a la Oissubuke... now _that_ would be cool!).
posted by silusGROK at 9:14 AM on September 13, 2003


Ehe Cruchland, a little bitter are we? Don't worry guys, there is no truth to the rumour that your penis size is related to the avg number of replies per fpp!

Maybe you and MC should sign an agreement not to fpp next to each other?

Having said that I agree MC posts are kinda boring and obvious.
posted by carfilhiot at 9:17 AM on September 13, 2003


in general, anything related to food & drink - especially cocktails - from the Lisbon corner is fine by me

I usually stay away from these "it's all about Miguel" threads, but I'll chime in:

Aren't all of these pseudo stereotypical "livin' the high-life with good food and booze" posts a little predictable and intellectually vapid and trendy, á la men's-magazine-clichés? I mean, just walk into any American bookstore like B&N or Border's and the first thing you see is a ton of cookbooks (including BBQ). What is 'new and interesting on the web' about a martini recipe or sandwiches? Hell, I can pick up an ish of Esquire or GQ anytime I feel like self-flagellation.

Or maybe I'm just more into blue-collar (dirty-collar?) chic, and allergic to what I perceive as pretention. If you're all, like, into it, that's fine by me. Okay, I'm going back to silence on the topic again.
posted by Shane at 9:33 AM on September 13, 2003


"Largely humorless, disrespectful of other peoples opinions, absolutely convinced of their own self-righteousness, and condescending to those who think that the world is a slightly greyer place than they do."

You say this as if it's a *bad* thing.......

It's a very great burdon to be right all the time. Please have a little more respect for that.
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:50 AM on September 13, 2003


It's a very great burdon to be right all the time.

Clas(sic).
posted by stonerose at 9:55 AM on September 13, 2003


Eric Burdon was often wrong

and he was, literally, an Animal
posted by matteo at 10:08 AM on September 13, 2003


Don't worry guys, there is no truth to the rumour that your penis size is related to the avg number of replies per fpp!

Well that's reassuring. But now I have to blame my incredibly small penis on something else.
posted by iconomy at 10:27 AM on September 13, 2003


I wonder which of Miguel's aliases have posted in this thread? can you spot him?
posted by chaz at 11:10 AM on September 13, 2003


the only way to boycott miguel is to ignore his weaker fpp

For those of you who do not seem to be getting that I am being a smart ass with that image:

I'M BEING A SMART ASS

In fact I enjoy nearly all of Miguel's posts. And to tell you the the truth, I suspect that this whole deal is a inside joke between crunchland and Miguel.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:23 AM on September 13, 2003


Oh, come on now. The man's no harm to anyone. Leave him alone. :)
posted by plep at 11:28 AM on September 13, 2003


Too much ...mysterious, strange, bewildering male hormonal goings-on lately

Hey, Mom says it's all a perfectly normal part of becoming a man. After this part ends I get to wear big boy pants.
posted by jonmc at 11:31 AM on September 13, 2003


Ban the piker.
posted by angry modem at 11:34 AM on September 13, 2003


Well that's reassuring. But now I have to blame my incredibly small penis on something else.

All the better for tucking under.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 11:40 AM on September 13, 2003


Aren't all of these pseudo stereotypical "livin' the high-life with good food and booze" posts a little predictable and intellectually vapid and trendy, a la men's-magazine-cliches?

It would be hysterical if miguel was using us to get filler for his writing assignments. Somewhere maybe there are portuguese magazine articles with our comments sprinked throughout, on martini glasses or favorite sandwiches.

and thanks, iconomy--i needed that : >
posted by amberglow at 11:43 AM on September 13, 2003


That would be pretty amusing, amberglow.

It turns out that Miguel is actually a human behavior researcher and we're all part of an experiment he's conducting on a public web forum.

Wait, I have to go, I just thought up an idea for a new movie. I'm gonna be rich!
posted by christian at 12:03 PM on September 13, 2003


Well, I do appreciate crunchland's point of view. I thought he was a wee bit harsh but how can you really tell? My impression of crunchland is he's kind of crusty but essentially decent. He's right--it was a self-double post and the summer season is long over. We want to see the new fall line up--not reruns.

OT

I was kidding you here about your image, Steve, in a snarky way, as I was in the other thread. That other was not your finest production but the party hat photo edit was really charming and showed you can laugh at yourself. As you were doing here--I got the joke. In both cases, here and there, I thought I was giving you a little poke in the ribs and it seems to me that you were poking back over there.

I resented the other little poke in the ribs being made out to be part of some vendetta--it seemed to me that between you and me, we were just punching each other on the arm. That's how I thought you saw it, that's all I meant it to be.

I was trying to remember who it was that said here how they couldn't stand your politics but once they got to know you in MeFi-Irc, they found you to be a really nice guy. That has always stuck with me ever since. I've been mean to you in the past, and for that I apologize. I may disagree with your politics but I have no wish to hammer you like I used to do. You seem like a really nice guy and you have made some real contributions to this place. We may tease you but we really do like you. There's room for us all here.

/OT
posted by y2karl at 12:14 PM on September 13, 2003


Jesus H Christ! I came here first--when did Miguel get that talkback?
posted by y2karl at 12:20 PM on September 13, 2003


I second y2karl's motion that we want more Mr.BaliHai posts; I second iconomy's endorsement of amberglow as funny and nice and that every thread is in need of an amber infusion; I second Mr.BaliHai's motion that we want more iconomy. We don't get nearly enough iconomy!
And what Mr.BaliHai said in spades. I am an unabashed member of the Miguel fan club. Because he is generally thoughtful, smart, witty, kind and inclusive, I am inclined to cut him a bit of slack for this posting transgression. But then again, I am inclined to cut almost everyone some slack for transgressions, it's only a freaking website!

But hey - iconomy - do you really think there are male hormonal goings on in MetaTalk? Whatever gave you that idea????
posted by madamjujujive at 12:24 PM on September 13, 2003


I've been mean to you in the past, and for that I apologize

sissy



just kidding
posted by matteo at 12:31 PM on September 13, 2003


aw juju-you rock! Don't forget crunch tho--he's been doing some excellent posts. : >
posted by amberglow at 12:36 PM on September 13, 2003


I think we can all agree that we hate madamjujujive, right?

/snorts, eats hillbillie's laundry
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 12:52 PM on September 13, 2003


Once upon a time Miguel was driving me so crazy that I was considering a little trip to Portugal. To kill.

And then, I just decided I didn't care anymore. Sure I want him to adhere to the rules. But whatever. Metafilter's actually a pretty consistent tightly run ship, and Miguel's little iffy behavior won't ruin nothin'. And he makes me laugh sometimes. Furthermore, we're stronger than that! (PS -- iconomy helped me through that difficult emotional period, and I can't thank her enough. Mucho besos.)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 1:21 PM on September 13, 2003


Actually, iconomy, I remember Carole Anne, who I still miss, getting into it with lizs over some political issue. It got a bit heated, too. But it was nothing like the guys do. It's all primate male dominance behaviors
--we're just a bunch of big apes.
posted by y2karl at 1:28 PM on September 13, 2003


Sure, cut Miguel some slack, but delete the damn post anyway. (Yeah I commented in it but that's OK) A deleted post here and there doesn't reflect poorly on anyone, so long as the majority of one's posts are good (which Miguel's most certainly are).
posted by Space Coyote at 1:51 PM on September 13, 2003


"I censured the coarse invectives which were become fashionable in the House of Commons, and said that if members of parliament must attack each other personally in the heat of debate, it should be done more genteely. Johnson: "No, Sir, that would be much worse. Abuse is not so dangerous when there is no vehicle of wit or delicacy, no subtle conveyance. The difference between coarse and refined abuse is as the difference between being bruised by a club, and wounded by a poisoned arrow.""

-Samuel Johnson
posted by clavdivs at 2:17 PM on September 13, 2003


David Broderick (D-CA) became the first sitting senator to die as a result of injuries suffered in a duel . Several days earlier he had charged that California's chief justice was corrupt and unfit for office. Chief Justice David Terry resigned his office and challenged Broderick to a duel. After Broderick discharged his pistol into the sand, Terry coolly aimed, fired, and shot Broderick in the chest.
September 16, 1859
posted by matteo at 2:47 PM on September 13, 2003


Mea culpa! Sorry to be so late to the whipping-post, but I'd thought I'd posted the other two links On Another Website Of A More Forgiving And Spirited Nature. The main link, referring to food and soft drinks sales was spanking new, straight from yesterday's Google News. But, yes, the post was still lame, self-indulgent and quite silly.

As penance, I shall instantly adopt crunchland's posting frequency.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:14 PM on September 13, 2003


Provided your posts are of crunchland's quality, I'll be 100% in favor of that. In fact, if you agree to stop ending them with question marks (you know, in tribute to crunchland's posting style) I'll be in favor of that also!.
posted by jonson at 3:24 PM on September 13, 2003


?.
posted by Space Coyote at 3:54 PM on September 13, 2003


?.


WOLF! WOLF! WOLLLLLLFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!













i mean coyote. sorry about that.
posted by Stynxno at 4:30 PM on September 13, 2003


more senate web site stuff
posted by clavdivs at 4:31 PM on September 13, 2003


All right, that's enough out of you two.
posted by jonson at 4:31 PM on September 13, 2003


{frowns}
(hands over text to jonson)
posted by clavdivs at 4:44 PM on September 13, 2003


MiguelCardoso is the best friend a person could have on MetaFilter, or anywhere else.

I'm thankful to have met him here.
posted by hama7 at 6:58 PM on September 13, 2003


David Broderick (D-CA) became the first sitting senator to die as a result of injuries suffered in a duel .

The restoration of duels would make this nation great again.
posted by rushmc at 7:06 PM on September 13, 2003


who would win in a fight, bunnyfire or miguel?
posted by mcsweetie at 7:06 PM on September 13, 2003


I didn't know Miguel was a Quaker.
posted by crunchland at 7:13 PM on September 13, 2003


it's not about what Metafilter is supposed to be, at this point. It's about what Metafilter has become because of it.

the more humanity engages with things as they are, as opposed to what they are "supposed" to be, the better for humanity.
posted by quonsar at 7:19 PM on September 13, 2003


My Christmas wish is to find a video card fast enough to play this.
posted by hama7 at 7:30 PM on September 13, 2003


who would win in a fight, bunnyfire or miguel?

Bunnyfire. Miguel is a gentleman, therefore he would forfeit.

And afterwards light Portuguese refreshments would be served.
posted by konolia at 7:43 PM on September 13, 2003


I was kidding you here about your image, Steve, in a snarky way, as I was in the other thread.

So let me get this straight. y2karl is kidding about Steve_at_Linwood's image, which is kidding about Miguel, who, in all likelihood, is sometimes kidding about his posts and probably kidding about posting with crunchland's posting frequence. Meanwhile, clavdivs is kidding about character assasination.

I keep waiting for the part where you all take off the Mission Impossible latex masks and reveal that you're actually timeistight, namespan, and mathowie and the thread was a plot to distract us while you stole a valuable coin collection.
posted by weston at 8:03 PM on September 13, 2003


Which is why I don't collect fucking coins.
posted by yerfatma at 8:15 PM on September 13, 2003


curses! foiled again! We would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for you pesky kids!
posted by crunchland at 8:15 PM on September 13, 2003




Bet you weren't expecting me to reveal that I'm actually Lesley Ann Warren.
posted by namespan at 8:23 PM on September 13, 2003


God, now I'm going to have that damn Mission Impossible theme going through my head all night.

Dum Dum Dum Dum..
posted by y2karl at 8:26 PM on September 13, 2003


Boy, I really wish some cable station would get a clue and start re-airing those classics. I'm not sure if they would hold up over the time it's been since they were made, but I'd sure like to watch them and give them a chance.
posted by crunchland at 8:28 PM on September 13, 2003


Back to back with Get Smart, for maximum effect, I think.
posted by namespan at 8:34 PM on September 13, 2003


I Spy, too
posted by y2karl at 8:35 PM on September 13, 2003


karl, come on, one could almost smell the cordite in the opening credits...

"dunt dunt-dunt-tada- dunt-dunt-dunt"
posted by clavdivs at 8:41 PM on September 13, 2003


Are you sure that's not the 'People's Court' theme there, Clav?
posted by dgaicun at 8:58 PM on September 13, 2003


Keep posting Miguel. Crunchland. Go and read this. There are a number of opinions as to what metafilter is, and I think there's room for many of these opinions. Calling Miguel out in that socially abusive "This is weak and vapid... Nah, I'm only Joking." way is pretty weak, and it's pretty standard behaviour for a bully.

It's my opinion that many of the flames that start on metafilter start because people or sub-groups want metafilter to be one thing, and they're happy to humiliate other people or sub-groups into "behaving."

Mathowie: Mr Jones.
Quonsar: Old Major
Migual: Snowball
Crunchland: Napoleon

etc,
posted by seanyboy at 1:03 AM on September 14, 2003


I didn't say I was joking. I said I was cranky when I first posted it, and thought better of it later.

Calling Miguel out in that socially abusive "This is weak and vapid... Nah, I'm only Joking." way is pretty weak, and it's pretty standard behaviour for a bully.

So what are you for calling me out about it?
posted by crunchland at 1:12 AM on September 14, 2003


I just wish Miguel would stop killing the server.
posted by angry modem at 1:19 AM on September 14, 2003


I wasn't joking or making light of my behaviour after quite a vitriolic attack. And what am I? Given that you're a metafilter institution and a well liked member of the group, and I'm an occasional poster and somebody who isn't that well known within the group. Well, I guess that would make me a fool.

But the post was uncalled for, and a simple apology (or saying nothing) would have been better than the "I was just cranky" line. You meant the attack, and despite the fact that some people like the distinctive flavour Miguel adds to metafilter, you don't, and it appears that you're happy to try and use quite blatent social engineering to get him to stop.

Plus. Could you explain to me what you meant by "It was half tongue-in-cheek"?
posted by seanyboy at 1:51 AM on September 14, 2003


Whew! As a show of repentance, I'm just back from my first crunchland-style post. Talk about hard work! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:06 AM on September 14, 2003


"I'm just back from my first crunchland-style post"

and of course the interesting question now is, is it right to radically change one's style -- and content of one's fpp's -- just to crack an inside joke, or even worse, as sarcastic comeback to one's own critics?
is it ok to use the front page as a way to give the finger to one's perceived "enemies"?

and even more important, what's your favorite Frank Sinatra song? What did you have for breakfast? What's your shoe size?
posted by matteo at 3:26 AM on September 14, 2003


I wish Matt wouldn't let us bitch about other members any more.
posted by konolia at 3:49 AM on September 14, 2003


well, did you evah? / coffee & cigs / 9 1/2 b : >

it was cute--the cats post--but not a good way to use the front page (on the other hand, that used up miguel's post for the day if anyone is tired of them)
posted by amberglow at 3:52 AM on September 14, 2003


Matteo: "Summer Wind"; Fresh country bread, fresh ewe's cheese (the Portuguese version of ricotta), French butter and special Arabica coffee from São Tomé; 43/10 1/2.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:30 AM on September 14, 2003


Fly Me to the Moon, coffee and leftover pizza, 9 1/2
posted by Space Coyote at 5:46 AM on September 14, 2003


French butter and special Arabica coffee from São Tomé

putting that umlaut on the 'a' is just too much. Do yourself some good and have a bowl of cereal tomorrow morning :)
posted by Space Coyote at 5:59 AM on September 14, 2003


*shrieks in horror, recoiling like a poor Jewish violinist accused of being a Nazi Kamp Kommandant*

That's not an umlaut, Space Coyote - that's a tilde! Umlauts are strictly prohibited by law in Portugal under the Anti-Fascist Statutes of 1975.
By the way, Arabica coffee from Cabo Verde/Cape Vert is almost as good and it goes down a treat with Cornflakes, cream and strawberries! But S
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:23 AM on September 14, 2003


Increases text size... D'oh.

Foiled again.
posted by Space Coyote at 6:53 AM on September 14, 2003


It's All Right With Me; a cheese sandwich and ice tea, 7 1/2.
posted by JanetLand at 7:01 AM on September 14, 2003


Whew! As a show of repentance, I'm just back from my first crunchland-style post. Talk about hard work! ;)

asshole
posted by rcade at 7:04 AM on September 14, 2003


Needs work, Cardosa, but it's a definite improvement. Keep up the good work.

The Theme to The Man from La Mancha / going out and having dimsum in an hour / 11.
posted by crunchland at 7:08 AM on September 14, 2003


Wow. That was quite an economical post, Miguel!

can't afford CDs / I just skip breakfast - it's cheaper that way / can't afford shoes.
posted by taz at 7:15 AM on September 14, 2003


So, seanyboy, just so we're clear about this: you have absolutely no problem with the same poster posting the exact same thing? Or is it just Miguel who gets a free pass to do whatever he wants?

There are a number of opinions as to what metafilter is

Yes, but until now I didn't know any of them were same old links, over and over and over...

(However, I have no problem with his latest "Cats" link. If he wants to imitate crunchland's style, it's all to the good, and there are some great pictures in there.)

I've Got the World on a String; bacon, eggs fried in the bacon grease (yum), English muffin; 10 1/2. Bonus answer: hat size 7 1/4.
posted by languagehat at 7:48 AM on September 14, 2003


Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Seanyboy, that A Group Is It's Own Worst Enemy is worth an post of its own right here in MetaTalk. That is an interesting link.
posted by y2karl at 8:01 AM on September 14, 2003


you have absolutely no problem with the same poster posting the exact same thing? Or is it just Miguel who gets a free pass to do whatever he wants?


Languagehat: I realize we can now start swapping shoes and hats (your winklepickers for my fedora?) but this double post infamy has gone on long enough.

As you could have easily found out, the main link in my previous post was to a very interesting statistics source about dozens of countries of the world. It was not repeated. In fact, it was never mentioned again. So it's not a double-post, see?

This post's main link was a brand new link to a news item (with a few back-up studies, some of which interesting) about the food and soft drink consumption in Europe. This link had never been posted before. So it's not a double-post, see?

What I did do, unknowingly as it happens, was use two secondary links I'd used before, because they were also news items which elected Portugal as #1 at something else quite shameful.

So, no - not a double-post at all. There was no repetition of the main link and, as we all know, one link is enough for a post. Just a lame, unimaginative post which I've already apologized for - though I enjoyed the thread tremendously.

Sorry, old fruit!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:10 AM on September 14, 2003


High Hopes; Sesame Seed bagel, with Lurpak Danish Butter, some very runny brie and Irish Breakfast Tea; size 8.5 (L)/9 (R), UK sizes, of course...

Now, WTF has that got to do with anything?

Miguel, do you have any way of monitoring your output, to guard against "post[s that are] still lame, self-indulgent and quite silly", as well as self-double-posts (of which it is likely that you are currently the sole culprit) - even if they are 'secondary' links? I imagine that if you were aware that they had already been posted, and by yourself at that, that you probably would have avoided the perceived offence.
posted by dash_slot- at 8:23 AM on September 14, 2003


What--are we going to have a cascading chain reaction of ill timed, ill considered remarks now? Seanyboy came late to the party and showed some heat long after everyone made nice. Miguel then coincidentally posted in riposte to crunchland in crunchland's style--pretty mild and gentle a dig, should you ask me, and crunchland was gracious and accommodating to both, all things considered. But everyone makes too much of too little thereafter, anyways.

I'm going to go out and get a fritter and a root beer. I don't care for Frank
--for me it's the Nat King Cole Trio's For All We Know.

For all we know
We may never meet again
Before you go
Make this moment sweet again

We won't say goodnight
Until the last minute
I'll hold out my hand
And my heart will be in it...

posted by y2karl at 8:48 AM on September 14, 2003


Strangers In The Night. About to put some coffee on. 11 1/2.

Wow, this never ends.
posted by jonmc at 8:50 AM on September 14, 2003


Luck Be a Lady. Coffee and leftover pizza. 10 1/2.

I like cats, too.
posted by yhbc at 9:00 AM on September 14, 2003


I'm glad I'm not matt.
posted by mcsweetie at 9:01 AM on September 14, 2003


['Saturday night is the loneliest night in the week',
size 11 bowling shoe, coffee and a smoke.]

well, the cats post is a bit comprehensive
it has the kitty inside joke going (eye roll)


darn it I'm hungry.
(admit it, one would eat well visting miguel)
((he has taste, panche (sic sp)))

(((but is he real)))

((((in this little pond))))

(((((mornin fellas)))))
posted by clavdivs at 9:02 AM on September 14, 2003


Wow, this never ends.

So I guess it's too late to suggest rcade is a steaming, stinking pile of feculent shite, bespeckled by gorged yellow maggots, on a bed of bright green pus-filled prostate glands, studded with phlegm balls and lightly covered with delicate strands of decaying blood-soaked bat piss?

Damn! Always late to the party; always the bridesmaid, never the bride!

posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:09 AM on September 14, 2003


[snark]
Jane you ignorant slut! I think you all suck. None of you should be allowed to post FPPs cuz you all do it differently from each other and therefore only one of you is doing it right. And I say I'm the only one, cuz I don't. This is a dead argument. I walk in here and it's fifty people kicking the remains of a dead horse long after the worms have had their day. Get over yourselves.

Oh. And who's the babe?
[/snark]
posted by ZachsMind at 9:30 AM on September 14, 2003


overstuffed bizzatch.
posted by quonsar at 9:50 AM on September 14, 2003


calvinfilter and quobbes

posted by quonsar at 9:59 AM on September 14, 2003


y2Karl. Yeah it was late heat, and I wasn't originally going to post, but I got to thinking about it, and how (especially given later comments) it seemed like an attempt to force a specific character onto metafilter. Plus, this was a personal attack. I thought we were bigger than that.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
In case that wasn't a sarcastic comment (paranoia, paranoia); I already did.
posted by seanyboy at 10:44 AM on September 14, 2003


My Way, bacon, cantaloupe and homemade coffee cake, 9.5. Oh and Miguel, here's the thing about a crunchland-style post - when I read "Cats" I thought, oh boy, pictures of kittens. Now I dig big cats as much as the next person but I guess I wasn't expecting tigers, lions, etc. So I think maybe there is something to be said for moderation in all things - perhaps a post that is not too verbose, yet not so short as to be misleading....:) And thanks for the calvinfilter and quobbes, q!
posted by Lynsey at 11:18 AM on September 14, 2003


seanyboy: it was mildy ironic, I should hope. crunchland expressed himself with some force and you reacted with some force. I think personal attack is a bit strong--it's very easy to overinterpet other people's comments and make assumptions that really require telepathy. You just can't tell what people meant to say most of the time--nor can they, half the time. It's instant communication here--we think, we write, without even a walk to the mailbox to calm down. It's not fair to judge people by a moment's comment. But we all do it.

I missed the link, and unrelated to any flapdoodle here, it is interesting. As was clavdivs's fascinating link to The Social Psychology of Character Assassination. And quonsar, I clipped that cartoon when it came out--it's one of my favorites. (Expect a stern lecture from boaz on the linkage... ;)
posted by y2karl at 11:36 AM on September 14, 2003


Sweet, I am y2karl's brand new grudge... I guess you win the bet jonson. ;)
posted by boaz at 11:59 AM on September 14, 2003


My Way / French Toast , bacon, eggs, Goette / 15 & 1/2
posted by Mick at 12:37 PM on September 14, 2003


breakfastfilter.

Is all the bacon related to seanyboys post?

Just wondering.
posted by namespan at 1:10 PM on September 14, 2003


nice try, boaz--not true. just pointing out a hypocrisy.
posted by y2karl at 1:45 PM on September 14, 2003


*sings and starts sweeping the floor*
posted by your mother at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2003


sassy septuagenarian
posted by rcade at 1:54 PM on September 14, 2003


So touchy Karl. Have you perhaps not considered the possibility that the insane reaction of the first person soured me on pointing such things out? :)
posted by boaz at 1:56 PM on September 14, 2003


derail

There is a perfectly polite way, boaz and jonson, to settle this: prove it.

Prove that I have an ongoing feud with anyone. Prove it with examples from the last month. Prove an egregrious pattern of harassment on my part. Prove it is demonstrably worse than anyone else's. I say a grudge implies a pattern. Prove a pattern of egregrious harrassment on my part. If there is a heated exchange on both sides within a thread, prove it is demonstrably worse than anyone else's heated exchange within a thread. Prove I am harassing anyone. Use my words only--hearsay evidence: here's a quote from so-and-so who said you were, too can't count. Demonstrable facts only--no opinions allowed.

If you are going to use someone's name in a list of examples, have them sign off on it. I'm harrassing hama7?--get him to agree. I'm harassing dhoyt?--get him to agree. Then have them provide examples. Examples of an ongoing grudge being expressed can only count. Because I said so can not count.

Then we will count the number of times your accusations have been made. We will count the pejorative epithets, --how many times the word hateful is used, say, or the words sick, paranoid or insane, we will count all the nasty adjectives and accusations that have been made and compare them to the number of negative things I have said about either of you.

Prove my posting of inline images is more often than anyone else, boaz. Count all the inline images in the last two weeks, and show that the percentage of my postings is greater than everyone else's. If you won't, I will do it for you. If I have made more than anyone else, I will apologize. If not, justify why I was singled out, without anyone else being mentioned. Your excuse above--because you are so touchy is bogus. That's weak, that's a cop out. Forget the descriptors of my behavior--give me proof.

If you are going to make or repeat accusations--prove them. Otherwise, people may think you and jonson are taking cheap shots with these accusations, practicing character assassination by repeating a lie over and over.

That's it for me.

/derail
posted by y2karl at 2:44 PM on September 14, 2003


wipes tears of mirth... god bless you, Karl... it's good to laugh like this on a Sunday. keep up the good work.
posted by jonson at 3:09 PM on September 14, 2003


*smock smock smock smock smock*

Whoa, that is fun! Now I got something outta this thread.

BUGS: Why don't timestamps work in Preview mode? /BUGS.
posted by Shane at 4:22 PM on September 14, 2003


It's not a bug, it's a feature.
posted by dg at 4:29 PM on September 14, 2003


jonson, that looks convincingly as if you are enjoying someone else's distress.

y2k: you really should 'let it lie'. You don't need to prove anything to the rest of the community.

matt: is there any better way than this? It's getting enbarrassing.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:30 PM on September 14, 2003


BUGS: Why don't timestamps work in Preview mode? /BUGS.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.


Hmph. It causes people (sometimes me) to do bad links...
posted by Shane at 5:04 PM on September 14, 2003


I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here Karl; perhaps I would better understand if you demonstrated what you considered proof. For example, if you proved:I am sure that I would understand what you expected enough to reply in kind. As an added bonus, this would effectively show that you were engaging in neither the phony hypocrisy of demanding unassailable proof of other's accusations while providing none or weak proof for yours nor the actual hypocrisy of claiming to be the victim while behaving like the feces-flinging monkey.
posted by boaz at 5:12 PM on September 14, 2003


jonson, that looks convincingly as if you are enjoying someone else's distress.

Apologies, that's not at all what I meant. I was just laughing at the thought that Karl wanted me (and boaz, and S@L, and crunchland, and faze, and hama7, and everyone else he's been nasty to) to spend their time cataloging how abusive he is on a regular basis.

matt: is there any better way than this? It's getting enbarrassing.

that looks convincingly as if you are asking matt to discipline other members of the site.
posted by jonson at 5:23 PM on September 14, 2003


oh boy someone post another metatalk thread already - the natives are getting restless.
posted by carfilhiot at 5:34 PM on September 14, 2003


q-man, Steve Allen liked to say "smock smock", too. Everybody thought he was doing a demented bird call, but I know he was just calling for his artist's garb.

I like the word "garb", too...

garb, garb, garb, garb, garb, garb, garb

I am trying so hard to derail the nasty tone of this thread, and not have to wait until it hits 200
posted by wendell at 5:42 PM on September 14, 2003


garb
posted by wendell at 5:46 PM on September 14, 2003


boaz, for the record, that insult was towards jonson--he's who went after me in thread after thread after thread. You didn't do that. I'm sorry if you thought I was saying that to you. I wasn't. I was mad at jonson for coming after me when he said he wouldn't.

From my point of view, you came on hot and heavy and I didn't know you from Adam. I didn't remember you. We had that exchange and nothing since. I didn't remember the exchange until I reread it. You think I go around brooding about something I've forgotten? Maybe unconsciously but that's a slippery slope--what's to say your anger towards me wasn't unconsciously from that exchange?

I called you pompous, self righteous and a hypocrite. I was mad. I did not call you crazy and I did not direct that insult to you. I said that to jonson, who deserves it for continuing to harass me.

Tell you what, write me and we can discuss this off premises. I am sure we can work this out.
posted by y2karl at 5:46 PM on September 14, 2003


This is how I see it--jonson started a ha ha funny, Miguelesque wannabe thread and got burned. He got hammered by a lot of people for some of the shit he pulled in that thread--the way he went after rushmc.

He used me for an example and I hammered him harder because he used me for an example. jonson took one link--one link regarding a person who has gone back and forth with me--and made an assertion. We got into it and neither one of us would let it go. We rally went on too long. And still are.

My experience of his user/character assassination page is that once he makes a negative character assessment, he never takes anything back. Ever. He may re-edit it, but once he makes a snap judgement about someone and talks shit about him, he maintains that position. Which would be fine if it stayed on the page.

I had no contact with him before this but we got into it, I wounded his ego and now it's his project to come in and bust me if I have words with anyone else anywhere and cry grudge, grudge, grudge. It's a word that with a very elastic application for him. Anything I do is described as hateful, grudgeful, he marvels at my hatefulness. I've never quite seen anyone go on so long about anyone else here. His holy mission in life is pointing out my new grudges and provoking and taunting me until I react, so he can prove, to himself and anyone who doesn't like me, that I'm a beady eyed grudgeholder. Well, fuck, maybe I am.

Have I returned the favor, haunting his every step? No. I leave him alone. Can he leave me alone? No, he must prove and reprove, rather he must accuse and reaccuse me of the same thing over and over again. To avoid his attention, I must be perfect and never lose my temper. Like everyone else at this website. What's not screwy with this picture?

I don't care what he thinks of me, I just want him to leave me alone. He can't or won't do it. Who has the grudge?
posted by y2karl at 5:56 PM on September 14, 2003


no one believes anything jonson says, if that's any consolation, y2karl : >
posted by amberglow at 6:06 PM on September 14, 2003


Apologies, that's not at all what I meant. I was just laughing at the thought that Karl wanted me (and boaz, and S@L, and crunchland, and faze, and hama7, and everyone else he's been nasty to) to spend their time cataloging how abusive he is on a regular basis.

jonson, you do spend your time cataloging users on a regular basis.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:12 PM on September 14, 2003


smock smock smock smock smock

garb, garb, garb, garb, garb, garb, garb


Badger badger badger badger...
posted by homunculus at 6:14 PM on September 14, 2003


Indeed, jonson's behaviour with you, y2karl, is becoming similar to how he has harassed rushmc. Whatever validity he may have in harassing you (I'm not saying he's valid or not, just so's you know), doing it this way is not cool.

Metafilter is an interesting playground.
posted by ashbury at 6:21 PM on September 14, 2003


Indeed, jonson's behaviour with you, y2karl, is becoming similar to how he has harassed rushmc.

If you look at his history, he started on rushmc long before rushmc ever said anything back to him. He made a snap judgement about rush and then hounded him. He delighted in it. He pounced on every little thing rushmc said and distorted it. He still does--look at what he says about rushmc on his user page even now. Do you see rushmc participate that much anymore? Is it OK with everyone for jonson to hound someone out of here on his own? Is that sort of thing good for MetaFilter? Is that what we want for this place?

I don't even think we should tolerate people talking shit about other members on their user pages. It's childish. Grown ups don't do that shit. What good does it do for this community to have someone appoint himself camp attack psychologist and make malicious slanders about the other members he doesn't like? On and off his user page? How does that build community?
posted by y2karl at 7:02 PM on September 14, 2003


Goddamn, quit your bitchin.
posted by Stan Chin at 7:09 PM on September 14, 2003


I know some of you guys really don't like Miguel, but setting fires is just so uncool...

On preview, the Crimson Chin has spoken.
posted by wendell at 7:11 PM on September 14, 2003


fuckin' arsonists
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:24 PM on September 14, 2003


Indeed, jonson's behaviour with you, y2karl, is becoming similar to how he has harassed rushmc.

I'd have to agree, even if Karl is far from a choirboy, and knows it, and is contrite when he loses it. He flies off the handle only slightly more frequently than I do, perhaps, so who the hell am I to say? Regardless, I don't see him hounding people.

Still, what he does do, as far as I can tell, is call people when they say something he finds particularly dumb or offensive, and converse reasonably with them when they don't, mostly. I don't have a problem with that, even if I don't always agree with him. He and I have gotten into it before, hammer and nails, but we're fine now, because we're adults.

This whole grudge-match nonsense is infantile, and though amusing in an as-the-world-turns kind of way, really the shits, and it ought to stop. I have no major problem with jonson, either, or anyone else here (other than our local John Bircher, perhaps, but he's becoming more funny than egregious with each passing day).

What good does it do for this community to have someone [...] make malicious slanders about the other members he doesn't like? On and off his user page? How does that build community?

Precisely none, and it doesn't. The frequency of it has been increasingly worryingly of late, and the targets seem to frequently be those here who have actually had the audacity to display a unique, and clearly identifiable personality within our little collective, which says more about the hounders than the houndees, I suspect.

So stop, please. Call someone on their shit, if that's what they post, but don't do after them every time they open their mouth, yeah?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:28 PM on September 14, 2003


I wonder if everyone seems to be turning on each other because we haven't had any fresh newbie blood to drink in such a long time...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:35 PM on September 14, 2003


I think we should round up the troops and have this fucking jonson SHOT!
posted by jonson at 7:35 PM on September 14, 2003


Johnny Cash, John Ritter, jonson... YOU'RE NUMBER THREE!!!
posted by wendell at 7:40 PM on September 14, 2003


Sigh. As long as that fucking Keyser Soze doesn't post a link to all my MP3s, I'm cool with it.
posted by jonson at 7:43 PM on September 14, 2003


Sorry wendell, Captain Murphy already took the venerable number three spot.

Leni Riefenstahl got honorable mention.
posted by dgaicun at 7:56 PM on September 14, 2003


Well, thank god that's all settled ... I call dibs on jonson's grudges. ;)

As for the email Karl, thanks but no thanks; I didn't sign up for that MeFi RSS-to-email service, so I don't see why I should sign up to get mail from a particularly angry, raving corner of MeFi either.
posted by boaz at 8:03 PM on September 14, 2003


"It's not a toy.  It makes real cupcakes.  With a 40-watt bulb.  And there's icing packets.  But the secret ingredient... is love.  Dammit!"
- Captain Murphy, Happy Cake (Episode 2)

R.I.P Harry Goz (1932 - 2003)
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 8:41 PM on September 14, 2003


Oh poop, and Sealab was just getting into it's stride...
posted by inpHilltr8r at 9:12 PM on September 14, 2003


amen, steve.
posted by mcsweetie at 9:24 PM on September 14, 2003


who wants cake? corner or side piece?
posted by whatnot at 9:33 PM on September 14, 2003


Matt is just an inch away from making this unlovely course compulsory. I sometimes wonder how many of those here can actually stand their own company.

Believe me: it's only others who make us palatable.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:34 PM on September 14, 2003


Sorry wendell, Captain Murphy already took the venerable number three spot.
Sorry, dgaicun, but I was specifially looking for a third JOHN or JOHNNY or JON...

Captain Murphy's full name was Captain Hazel "Hank" Murphy (according to fuzzy.com's cartoon voice database, which also credited Harry Goz in a cartoon I never heard of which starred Tom Arnold and the late-great Phil Hartman; Hartman was sucessfully replaced in his Simpsons and Futurama characters, so I have no doubt Sealab 2021 will go on).

As much as some of you love S2021, it's still more 'cult' than 'mass' appeal, so Harry would probably be better grouped together with "Hogan's Hero" Larry Hovis, which leaves us one short of a full three in that group, too.

And, no, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.


On preview, Miguel, some of us could TEACH a course on "dating yourself"... I wouldn't know anything from my personal experience, myself, uh, for me, that is...
posted by wendell at 9:39 PM on September 14, 2003


I suspect that stavrosthewonderchicken has hit the nail on the head and that this is happening in the same way that any closed community will eventually turn in on itself if denied new blood. While it is nice in some ways to not have to deal with the unknown factors that come with new blood, there are benefits also. I wonder if that time has come?
posted by dg at 9:43 PM on September 14, 2003


those here who have actually had the audacity to display a unique, and clearly identifiable personality within our little collective

A category which includes you and our local John Bircher, who said something very generous above about Miguel--a sentiment which I share--and who kind of grows on you, in my experience. So give him time.
posted by y2karl at 9:59 PM on September 14, 2003


MetaFilter needs new Blood! Blood!! Blood!!!

No, make that MetaFilter needs new Brains! Brains!! Brains!!!

make your own links to the appropriate horror movies: I gave my all to The Blob
posted by wendell at 10:05 PM on September 14, 2003


According to fuzzy.com's cartoon voice database, there is also this obscure little number, which set my eye-brow to maximum arch.

Is it some sort of sign?
posted by dgaicun at 10:11 PM on September 14, 2003


that looks convincingly as if you are asking matt to discipline other members of the site. - jonson

What's wrong with discipline? It shouldn't be confused with punishment, tho' consequences which equate to loss of privileges are the basis in many well thought out parenting schemes. Which is about the point we've reached, sadly.
posted by dash_slot- at 12:16 AM on September 15, 2003



"nom yoho renge kyo
nom yoho renge kyo
nom yoho renge kyo
nom yoho renge kyo
nom yoho renge kyo
nom yoho renge kyo"
said rikki tikki tavi.
posted by quonsar at 12:22 AM on September 15, 2003


Hartman was sucessfully replaced in his Simpsons and Futurama characters, so I have no doubt Sealab 2021 will go on

Actually, I am distressed (as much as one can be distressed about a cult cartoon) about the fate of SeaLab 2021 with Mr. Goz gone.

According to The Simpsons Archive Matt Groening told the Chicago Sun-Times "We will retire them with great honor... We may have them appear in the background of scenes. But I can't imagine us continuing with those characters."

More so, the lose of Goz is more compariable to Dan Castellaneta leaving the Simpsons. You can write episodes with out Lionel Hutz, but Captain Murphy is the show.

Yes, this is way way off topic... but Christ, look at what a mess this thread is!
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:32 AM on September 15, 2003


Yer dern tootin' it's off topic. Come with a Sinatra song, a breakfast and a shoe size or be... uhh.. Look, there's definitely gonna be consequences of some kind.

(9 and a half, Rice Krispies and uuuuuum. If by Sinatra you mean the Ramones, then "I'm Against It." Or perhaps "I Wanna Be Sedated." Because, this thread wants to be sedated and I'm against it.)

(The thread, that is, not the sedation thereof. In fact, could you pass the tranquilizer gun? Thanks.)
posted by arto at 1:10 AM on September 15, 2003


Interesting. Mefi user repeatedly does something that pisses other Mefi user off. Mefi user calls fellow Mefi user on said actions. Rather than allow any apologies to be made, thread dissolves into random alternate topic. Days later, Mefi users wonder why there is lingering resentment.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 4:47 AM on September 15, 2003


quonsar, do you know how long it took me to get that out of my head the first time I heard it?????? Back in 1977????

I need a scorecard. I can't keep up with who is mad at who.
posted by konolia at 4:53 AM on September 15, 2003


You what I can't stand?

Rhetorical questions.
posted by carter at 6:35 AM on September 15, 2003


Bah.

You know what I can't stand?
posted by carter at 6:36 AM on September 15, 2003


we need a map of who hates who ...i'm completely confused .
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:48 AM on September 15, 2003


just for the record, while y2karl may have had a temporary grudge against me, it wasn't unprovoked. On several occasions, I took some cheap shots and backed him into a corner about his posting style (I guess I'm sensing a pattern here), and he felt threatened, and retaliated.

Jonson just likes to stir up the pot to gain what he thinks is street cred here on mefi, and for whatever other perverse reasons he's got. Best we ignore him, and maybe he'll go away.
posted by crunchland at 7:51 AM on September 15, 2003


XQ, Miguel did apologize (which he pretty much always does on the many occasions he does something to apologize for, which is just one of the reasons we love him). Assuming that's what you were talking about. I'm not sure what anybody is talking about. I'm not even sure whether I'm enjoying this thread.
*goes off to have a drink and forget it all*
posted by languagehat at 8:03 AM on September 15, 2003


Personally, I don't want him to go away. I think he has some very good things to offer MetaFilter. I would like to see the genial antagonism that most often comes up in a "who-me-I'm-mostly-harmless-and-don't-really-mean-it" kind of way disappear. This dogged sniping at the heels that he is performing isn't nice, to put it very mildly.
posted by ashbury at 8:09 AM on September 15, 2003


jonson, I mean, in case it wasn't clear.
posted by ashbury at 8:43 AM on September 15, 2003


crunchland is right, I DO like to stir up the pot... It's a bad habit, and given my posting history here I doubt anyone would believe me if I tried to say I didn't. That said, when I take shots at y2karl, or previously at rushmc, it's out of a legitimate dislike for something they have said, not arbitrary bullying. I'm just not much of the "turn the other cheek" type. For the record, karl, I'm sure rushmc would be the first to tell you (as he has told me via email) that my hassling him hasn't driven him from the site, any more than it has cut down on your posting volume. You make any number of posts or comments that I either agree with or have no opinion on, but when I see you fly off the handle at someone, such as you did with boaz earlier (and picked up again in this thread), I do step in, because your agressive & meanspirited tone tend to set me off. I'll try to dial it down, but as you can see, I've had trouble sticking to that goal. FYI, ashbury, "genial antagonism" is my new favorite self descriptor. Jonson, genial antagonist. I'm gonna have business cards made.
posted by jonson at 8:59 AM on September 15, 2003


Basically jonson, you're saying you're a twat because you think Karl's a twat. Great defence.
posted by Summer at 9:22 AM on September 15, 2003


The problem, Summer, is that a nuanced and rather mature approach of quiet disagreement and gentle criticism is lost on websites.

For instance, let's assume that I'm at a party and my friend is acting like a dick. He's my friend...we see each other often...and respect each other's opinions. So do I yell at him and say, "Hey, you're being a dick! Shut up!" or do I simply change the subject with him, bring him to a more civil tone, and use charisma and charm to help the situation?

The latter is next to impossible on a website because: 1) We're not all that close as a community (so few of us have ever actually met). 2) Most people here don't have a personal investment in others' feelings. 3) Many of us are just that: twats. 4) "It's just a website."

I get the feeling that subtle and effective criticism is incredibly difficult unless you are incredibly patient, nurturing, and genuinely tactful. As you could probably tell by the past few MeTa threads, very few of us are just that.
posted by BlueTrain at 9:43 AM on September 15, 2003


But unlike at a party, a twat on a website is very easy to ignore.
posted by Summer at 10:01 AM on September 15, 2003


Summer: Evidence collected on MetaFilter would suggest otherwise, in taht people dont' seem to ever learn to do the ignoring.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:07 AM on September 15, 2003


Summer: But unlike at a party, a twat on a website is very easy to ignore.

I don't know what websites you are looking at, but I find them very hard to ignore, myself.

*rimshot*
posted by UKnowForKids at 10:16 AM on September 15, 2003


But his temper is very short, and both his ability to take offense & his inability to turn the other cheek by far outdoes anyone on the site, even XQ. And thus springs our constant headbutting.

I find it ironic that jonson chides me for my inability to turn the other cheek and then proclaims himself as not a turn the other cheek type of guy. He gets a few shots in at me, every time, even when he's making a vague nod to turning it down. He won't make more than a vague commitment to stop here because he has no interest in stopping harassing people.

We had a very strong fight in his look at how clever I am in pigeonholing people here with my snap judgements on my cool user page thread--for that alone, he is the last person to present himself as my moral arbiter, let alone anybody else's. He has a beef with me that is colored by that exchange.
He has taken anything I have said to anyone else ever since and described it as pejoratively as possible, willfully distorting everything I have said. I do not list and distort all the mean things he has said to other people since when I respond to his attacks.

He has these talking points on me, which in my opinion come from the fact that I criticized him in his thread, that he trots out over and over, jumping on the slightest little evidence of a difference of opinion and taking it out of context and used that person's name as part of his talking points thereafter.

There are always two sides in all my differences with people here. Sometimes I am totally in the wrong--as when I went after hama7 over a year ago. Or the fault is on both sides, as with crunchland--who so graciously spoke the absolute truth about our differences here. I honestly expected no less from him. He tries to be fair to everyone and for that I respect him.

Since our falling out, except when provoked by him, I have not gone near jonson, I have not said a word against him, I have not gratuitously described anything he has written in pejorative terms such as hate filled. I stayed out of his threads, not mocked him, I have left him alone.

He can't leave me alone, he can't or won't even promise to leave me alone--wanting to keep the option open--and he keeps on with the bad mouthing.

I repeat, between just us two--who has the grudge here? He was not elected the judge here, he shouldn't be allowed to get away with these vendettas. He should mind his own business and stop constantly sniping at people he's picked fights with previously. His constant attacks on people on his shit list does this place no good. Everyone on his list leaves him alone except when he keeps bringing the same shit up over and over. Why should we have to turn the other cheek at his gratuitous attacks? Why are we at fault for not taking his shit silently?
posted by y2karl at 10:26 AM on September 15, 2003


"...who has the grudge here?"

Seven paragraphs?

I'm just sayin'.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:03 AM on September 15, 2003


But his temper is very short, and both his ability to take offense & his inability to turn the other cheek by far outdoes anyone on the site, even XQ. And thus springs our constant headbutting.

Umm... who originally said this and where, because I can't find it anywhere on MeTa and frankly I'm anxious to hear the clarification. I'm very interested in knowing who seems to think I'm the bastion of rage and lingering resentment around these parts.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 11:04 AM on September 15, 2003


y2karl, I have no place whatsoever to say this, so take it for what it's worth: friendly observation.

You're both wrong. You have a history of remembering people that annoying you and haunting them. You've done it to me with the "Led Zeppelin" episode. But jonson is a dick to you. No sugar-coating that, either. So accept the fact that some of his criticism has merit. Accept that he's an ass. Whether or not you accept/reflect upon his criticism of your behavior, don't take his attacks on you personally.
posted by BlueTrain at 11:07 AM on September 15, 2003


No, make that MetaFilter needs new Brains! Brains!! Brains!!! make your own links to the appropriate horror movies: I gave my all to The Blob

"Send more paramedics."
posted by btwillig at 11:15 AM on September 15, 2003


XQ, that's a quote by me, although now that I read it I'm not sure what the hell I was talking about. I certainly don't think you're the bastion of rage and lingering resentment around these parts.
posted by jonson at 11:15 AM on September 15, 2003


MetaFilter: You're both wrong.
posted by homunculus at 11:19 AM on September 15, 2003


Karl, I say this with the utmost affection and respect, but you don't make yourself look good with those interminable, repetitious attempts at self-justification. Your posting record speaks for itself; most people here like you, and I suggest you simply ignore the ones that don't. What benefit could you possibly get from trying, over and over, to prove to jonson and the world that he has a "vendetta" against you? Try to let it go.
posted by languagehat at 11:30 AM on September 15, 2003


But his temper is very short, and both his ability to take offense & his inability to turn the other cheek by far outdoes anyone on the site, even XQ. And thus springs our constant headbutting.

Umm... who originally said this and where, because I can't find it anywhere


"But his temper be quite tinyish, except when it be longish, and whenceforth he stands not the cockerels of misfortune slung about his bullish neck, nor never upon never the cuckoldish horns nor horns cuckoldish-not,

But verily the butting of heads and more-so-often the heading of butts, it doeth a heart merry to watch, especially when the cheeks be turned in the direction of (foul) wind and "Kisseth Mine" be proclaimed for far and near..."

-Grovidius, 7 A.D.

"EVERYBODY gets a SILENT TIME OUT! NOW!"

-Miss Green, Cedarbrook Elementary, 1977.
posted by Shane at 11:30 AM on September 15, 2003


mcd--I'm a gasbag. But I'm done with this.
posted by y2karl at 11:34 AM on September 15, 2003


*Ahem*... I will now recite "Why I am Right and You are Wrong," a movement in three parts... as soon as I can find that damned orchestra of mine, anyway... maybe a greek chorus, too
posted by namespan at 12:44 PM on September 15, 2003


Christ almighty. Do you people live outside of MetaFilter?
posted by xmutex at 1:07 PM on September 15, 2003


i remeber, when i first joined the filter i said some...well anywho, i said if people wanted me off this site, have them vote and i will go quitely but if a few persist on trying to force me out I'l lgo out kicking and screaming.

That was the time of the big anonimity fight or debate or what have you that rcade and rodii where trying to explain to me. well rcade used my words against me and i shut the fuck up, that was when i started to learn and am still learning.

somethings one says are indefenciable and one has to live with the words they say...it's about excepting responsibility for these words and try to change (thats the key try and change)
except for foldy, most everyone here will admit a wrong if pressed.
Karl is no exception, he wants a reason why this is happening, he has a right too.
posted by clavdivs at 1:18 PM on September 15, 2003


. Do you people live outside of MetaFilter?

hmm, i don't know about you all, but entering and exiting through the cd-rom door is a pain
posted by clavdivs at 1:19 PM on September 15, 2003


Do you people live outside of MetaFilter?

you think metafilter is a nasty place to live, you ain't seen the real world.
posted by quonsar at 2:37 PM on September 15, 2003


I live at the health club.
posted by konolia at 2:47 PM on September 15, 2003


jonson, sometimes i think you're like Dennis the Menace, looking for a Mr. Wilson to annoy, and you keep looking and trying different people out--if they bite, you're happy. Please tell me i'm wrong, because i don't want to think of you as a troll. (and you're bringing our fabulous 14k rep way down)
posted by amberglow at 3:07 PM on September 15, 2003


Amberglow, nothing could be further from the truth. I thought I was clear here. I'm not randomly picking on people, I just have a problem with holding my tongue when people say rude/unpleasant things, to the point that I tend to call them about it.
posted by jonson at 3:31 PM on September 15, 2003


ok jonson...just don't carry shit over from old threads or posts, ok? I heard us 14kers were actually going to be the first ones to really get ponies, so don't ruin it, ok? (i'm naming mine princess)
posted by amberglow at 3:45 PM on September 15, 2003


you're right. that's a bad habit, I'll try to break it.
posted by jonson at 3:49 PM on September 15, 2003


so, what are you gonna name your pony? : >
posted by amberglow at 3:54 PM on September 15, 2003


Amberglow, the question I have is how much crap do we have to dig thru to find it?
posted by konolia at 3:55 PM on September 15, 2003


Harriet
posted by jonson at 3:56 PM on September 15, 2003


so, what are you gonna name your pony?

i'm naming mine 'buddy' and dragging him home by the hind leg on my jet ski.
posted by quonsar at 3:56 PM on September 15, 2003


you're living above a glue factory now, right quonsar?
posted by amberglow at 4:03 PM on September 15, 2003


Screw that; where'd he get a jet ski with legs?
posted by yhbc at 4:44 PM on September 15, 2003


maybe it's a really really evil glue factory?
posted by amberglow at 4:57 PM on September 15, 2003


I'm calling mine "pony"
posted by seanyboy at 5:04 PM on September 15, 2003


Awww, amberglow, you said that I was your princess!

I'm calling my pony "dinner".
posted by dg at 5:12 PM on September 15, 2003


My pony will be named "bunn.....oh, never mind.

Did I mention I am making pancakes right now?
posted by konolia at 5:21 PM on September 15, 2003


dg, you're still my pretty pretty princess

konolia, i hope you made enough for all of us--and our ponies (but don't let dg help with the cooking)
posted by amberglow at 5:42 PM on September 15, 2003


I've come to the conclusion that I would like everyone here a whole lot more if I just didn't read MeTa.

Still not going to stop, of course.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:43 PM on September 15, 2003


I think I'll just buy myself a good shiny black pony, maybe called "Bess"...
posted by namespan at 6:04 PM on September 15, 2003


what I want to know, after all of this, is what does all this have to do with frank sinatra?
posted by crunchland at 6:21 PM on September 15, 2003


what does all this have to do with frank sinatra?

My pony is called Frank Sinatra.
posted by biscotti at 7:06 PM on September 15, 2003


My pony is called Frank Sinatra.

posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 7:30 PM on September 15, 2003


Wow, Steve, two imgs in one thread might get you a new spot on someone's enemies list. :)
posted by Space Coyote at 7:39 PM on September 15, 2003


My pony is called Frank Sinatra.
Sheesh, the last thing we need around here is another dead horse to flog.
posted by dg at 7:40 PM on September 15, 2003


Sorry for the following derail, but I've been gone since 3...

I thought I was clear here. I'm not randomly picking on people, I just have a problem with holding my tongue when people say rude/unpleasant things, to the point that I tend to call them about it.

In my case, jonson, you are maxed out, over the limit. Your moral outrage credit rating is kaput with me: from where I am, you've been drawing from your ill will account for a long time. I have a solution--you leave me alone and I leave you alone.

All you have to do is make the commitment. Not say I'll try to--say I will leave y2karl alone from now on. Then, if you break your vow, people can call you on it. If I'm acting like an asshole towards anyone, it's up to other people to call me out on it now. You've called me out too many times. You've used up your allotment.

I'm ready--how about you? I was out for a walk and came to think that this would be a honest way to settle it. How about it? How about at least a one month trial--can you handle biting your tongue for one month? I think that is what is going to happen but let's just make an agreement on the record.

I just thought I'd offer up a positive resolution before everyone drifted off into Laa Laa....

/derail
posted by y2karl at 7:51 PM on September 15, 2003


Or you could just, you know, ignore him.
posted by Stan Chin at 7:58 PM on September 15, 2003


i am prepared to discuss with anyone who may wish, a deal whereby i walk away from mefi and never post again, in exchange for a sum of money. make your offers.
posted by quonsar at 8:00 PM on September 15, 2003


I'm still around, I'm just lying low waiting for the next batch of brains to be let in so it gets interesting again.

when I take shots at y2karl, or previously at rushmc, it's out of a legitimate dislike for something they have said, not arbitrary bullying.

It seems to me that it might be more appropriate (and productive) to stick to addressing the ideas and expressing your difference of opinion with them, rather than taking it upon yourself to censure, mock, or otherwise negatively engage the party with whom you disagree. I don't think Metafilter is the place for "taking shots" at other members, no matter how tempted one might be or how justified one might feel in doing so.

If Mathowie took action against everyone here who said something that he disliked, very few would have posting privileges at this point. Think about that.
posted by rushmc at 8:21 PM on September 15, 2003


I am thinking about it. I'm wondering how we could get him to do that.
posted by timeistight at 8:31 PM on September 15, 2003


Just kidding, folks. Love you all!
posted by timeistight at 8:34 PM on September 15, 2003


I was going to name my pony Kevin. Except I must have missed the 7K pony day, because I still haven't gotten mine.
posted by vraxoin at 8:44 PM on September 15, 2003


Well, since it looks like we're about to wrap things up here - porn star or my little pony?
posted by yhbc at 8:52 PM on September 15, 2003


I am prepared to discuss a deal whereby I walk away from MeFi and never post again, in exchange for someone cutting off quonsar's right hand.
posted by soyjoy at 8:53 PM on September 15, 2003


am prepared to discuss with anyone who may wish, a deal whereby i walk away from mefi and never post again, in exchange for a sum of money. make your offers.

Can you arrange for other people never to post again, in exhange for a sum of money?
posted by carfilhiot at 8:54 PM on September 15, 2003


I'm ready--how about you? I was out for a walk and came to think that this would be a honest way to settle it.

Yeah, what the hell? I'm in.

It seems to me that it might be more appropriate (and productive) to stick to addressing the ideas and expressing your difference of opinion with them, rather than taking it upon yourself to censure, mock, or otherwise negatively engage the party with whom you disagree.

That's true. I'm not sure why I always go straight for the taunt/mock, it would be smarter & potentially more productive even to engage in debate rather than just attack. Okay, so: no taunting y2karl, no matter how great the temptation, and no viciously attacking people I disagree with, even if it goes against every fiber of my being. Hmmm... I may never post to MeTa again.
posted by jonson at 9:20 PM on September 15, 2003


"I'm not sure why I always go straight for the taunt/mock"

Because you're a talentless hack who lives to laugh at his own dumb jokes? Because you long to deliver the biting, erudite rebuttal, but the best you can come up with is grade school name calling? Because you are a MeFi wannabe?
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:35 PM on September 15, 2003


Because you're a talentless hack who lives to laugh at his own dumb jokes? Because you long to deliver the biting, erudite rebuttal, but the best you can come up with is grade school name calling? Because you are a MeFi wannabe?

uhm no, because "it would be smarter & potentially more productive even to engage in debate rather than just attack"
posted by carfilhiot at 9:45 PM on September 15, 2003


I am prepared to discuss a deal whereby I walk away from MeFi and never post again, in exchange for membership in the MetaFilter Witness Protection program, whereby I will be moved to a distant city in Portugal and given a new identity (including a 14K MeFi user number).
posted by wendell at 10:30 PM on September 15, 2003


Because you're a talentless hack who lives to laugh at his own dumb jokes? Because you long to deliver the biting, erudite rebuttal, but the best you can come up with is grade school name calling? Because you are a MeFi wannabe?

man, y6, that's pretty shitty.
posted by quonsar at 10:42 PM on September 15, 2003


Nah, he may have a point. I mean, I am generally very self-amused... I'm not sure what a MeFi wannabe is, though. But I suspect I am one. Jonson: genial antagonist, mefi wannabe.
posted by jonson at 11:37 PM on September 15, 2003


I pretty sure Mefi wannabes really really wanna ziggy zig ah.
posted by Stan Chin at 5:19 AM on September 16, 2003


I agree that in-fighting is the best way to deal with that fink, cardoso.
posted by mcsweetie at 5:36 AM on September 16, 2003


Because you're a talentless hack who lives to laugh at his own dumb jokes? Because you long to deliver the biting, erudite rebuttal, but the best you can come up with is grade school name calling? Because you are a MeFi wannabe?

y6y6y6, how 'bout you fucking chill out?
posted by bshort at 5:51 AM on September 16, 2003


[ if | when ] new user registrations are opened, I hope Matt puts a direct link from the sign-up form to this MeTa thread, so potential new MetaFilterians have a sense of just what the fuck they are letting themselves in for... My Lord, it's like the worst of Usenet-back-in-the-day meets unsupervised-afterschool-time AOL tweens around here.
posted by JollyWanker at 6:10 AM on September 16, 2003



posted by Frasermoo at 6:40 AM on September 16, 2003


um...wow...kiddie porn *cough*
posted by dangerman at 6:44 AM on September 16, 2003


There's only one solution here.



HA!
posted by i_cola at 6:54 AM on September 16, 2003


"I'm not sure what a MeFi wannabe is, though."

Hmmmm...... Well, in retrospect, I have no idea what it is either. Until we can come to some sort of consensus on the meaning I formally retract that sentence. I think I was trying to imply that you aren't smart enough to play here. But of course that doesn't make any sense.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:09 AM on September 16, 2003


I want a donkey. When I get it, I'm going to call it 'Hooty.' As in, 'Donkey Hooty.'

*rimshot*
posted by carter at 7:14 AM on September 16, 2003


I'm thinking that there are no mefi wannabes in this conversation. The mefi wannabes are the lurkers who don't have a login id and desperately want one.

As it happens, I am prepared to discuss with anyone who may wish, a deal whereby i walk away from mefi and relieve them of their 'mefi wannabe' status, in exchange for a sum of money. make your offers.
posted by crunchland at 7:37 AM on September 16, 2003


But his temper is very short, and both his ability to take offense & his inability to turn the other cheek by far outdoes anyone on the site, even XQ. And thus springs our constant headbutting.

But its hardening is very short, and both its capacity to take the & of offence; its incapacity to turn the other cheek exceeds by far no matter whom on the site, even XQ. And our headbutting spouts out thus constant.

AndOurHeadButtingSpoutsOutThusConstant!
posted by Shane at 7:51 AM on September 16, 2003


The mefi wannabes are the lurkers who don't have a login id and desperately want one.

There are some Mefi wannabes who have IDs, but are simply horrified by threads like this.

*waits for crucifixion*

Hey, Peter, I can almost see the thread topic from here!
posted by Skot at 8:15 AM on September 16, 2003


i_cola, you are verrry sneaky, sir.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:00 AM on September 16, 2003


Because you're a talentless hack who lives to laugh at his own dumb jokes? Because you long to deliver the biting, erudite rebuttal, but the best you can come up with is grade school name calling? Because you are a MeFi wannabe?

I thought that was actually fair criticism, not abusive like the "fucking chill out " that followed; but maybe y6y6y6 is attacked for his timing, posted 15 mins after jonson magnanimously sent his commitment thus: "...no taunting y2karl, no matter how great the temptation, and no viciously attacking people I disagree with, even if it goes against every fiber of my being. Hmmm... I may never post to MeTa again."

I also think it just may have been tempting fate...

jonson is a funny guy, but only time will tell if he can shake the curse that states he must have a grudge to go with his wit... o'course, y2karl is a clever guy, but only time will tell yaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayadda
posted by dash_slot- at 10:42 AM on September 16, 2003


That's it, random nickname switches is the only solution to this problem.

I can't wait until I get to be Mathowie.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:56 AM on September 16, 2003


I was trying to imply that you aren't smart enough to play here.

we know what you were implying. puffed up chumps like yourself have been implying that about me since i arrived. i'm still here, most of them aren't. so, when you are finally full of yourself, y6, don't let the door hit you in the ass etc etc etc. and have a WONDERFUL day!
posted by quonsar at 11:18 AM on September 16, 2003


That's it, random nickname switches is the only solution to this problem.
Oh Boy! ...this would be good & fun.
in exchange for a sum of money. make your offers not to be me.
posted by thomcatspike at 11:30 AM on September 16, 2003


" i'm still here, most of them aren't "

are you aware that it was Strom Thurmond's motto, right?
posted by matteo at 11:44 AM on September 16, 2003


Triple Bill:

crunch vs miguel
jonson vs y2karl
quonsar vs y6y6y6

Now let's see 350 comments and some blood!
posted by Shane at 12:02 PM on September 16, 2003


I was trying to imply that you aren't smart enough to play here.

Jesus, where exactly do you think we are? I don't think any of us really have grounds to call each other stupid.
posted by whatnot at 12:07 PM on September 16, 2003


Unless you happen to be StupidSexyFlanders, of course. Then it's ok.

But not otherwise.
posted by iconomy at 12:11 PM on September 16, 2003


*drapes white flag over head*
*whispers "it is what it is" repeatedly*
*surrenders without firing another shot*
posted by quonsar at 12:19 PM on September 16, 2003


Who says MeFi isn't a community? Hell, it's like a family. This thread which began about a simple Miguel matter has now devolved into petty grudges about things that have gone before. It reminds me of the way my mom and my aunt still argue over which of them was responsible for breaking my grandmother's candy dish back in 1945.

Back when Grandma was still alive, she'd say, "Land sakes, Jeanette and Nancy, it was just a cheap dish from the five and dime," but with that small amount of control gone, you'd think it was a Faberge egg.

The rest of the family, of course, just rolls their eyes.
posted by anapestic at 12:34 PM on September 16, 2003



are you aware that it was Strom Thurmond's motto, right?

When Strom was a little boy, he heard crusty old Quonsar yelling that at carved indians outside a tobacco shop.
posted by thirteen at 1:06 PM on September 16, 2003


"puffed up chumps like yourself have been implying that about me since i arrived."

What are you talking about? I've never implied that you weren't smart. I don't recall anyone ever saying that. I've been implying that most of your posts are noisy and obvious. It's not the same thing.

For example your posts tend to exhibit wit and creativity. But even when they're pure noise, we all know you could have interjected an erudite rebuttal instead. You get the benefit of a doubt. jonson? Not so much.

Look. Neither you or I are here for affirmation. It's a community, and we fill a niche, and life goes on. At the end of the day you don't care that I think your posts are noisy, and I don't care that you think I'm a pompous ass.

Of course I'm a pompous ass. Of course your posts are noisy. This is the nature of MetaFilter.

And of course we all want it to be different.

Fortunately we all have MetaTalk where we can hash those issues out in a well understood forum. We speak out minds, the unspoken rules shift slightly, and life goes on. It's not jonson vs y6y6y6 vs quonsar. It's jonson *and* y6y6y6 *and* quonsar. And nothing more.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:28 PM on September 16, 2003


<100% serious>
well, that's just about the coolest thing i've ever read in metatalk.
</100% serious>

now, lets get weird.
posted by quonsar at 1:38 PM on September 16, 2003


When Strom was a little boy, he heard crusty old Quonsar yelling that at carved indians outside a tobacco shop.

except for that...
posted by quonsar at 1:39 PM on September 16, 2003


Hey, that's not the real quonsar -- he didn't complain about the capital Q! The name-switching has begun...

(We'll never reach 300.)
posted by languagehat at 1:53 PM on September 16, 2003


Hang on. I'm languagehat.
posted by i_cola at 2:20 PM on September 16, 2003


OK, languagehat, give me back my damn username.

--the REAL i_cola
posted by soyjoy at 2:25 PM on September 16, 2003


(We'll never reach 300.)

Sure we will. You're all assholes! What do you think of *them* apples?
posted by pizzasub at 2:32 PM on September 16, 2003


smock smock smock
garb garb garb
erudite rebuttal erudite rebuttal erudite rebuttal
posted by carfilhiot at 2:41 PM on September 16, 2003


DONT PAD THE 300 KARMA with fluff

this was about miguel?
posted by clavdivs at 3:02 PM on September 16, 2003


"Hang on. I'm languagehat."

really? then, tell me the meaning of spaccare il capello in quattro

clavdivs,
miguel who?
posted by matteo at 3:04 PM on September 16, 2003


spaccare il capello in quattro

"i shall now send four singing goats into the upper atmosphere."
posted by quonsar at 3:16 PM on September 16, 2003


literally, that should be "i shall now hurl four goats of song into the upper atmosphere."
posted by quonsar at 3:19 PM on September 16, 2003


to crack the hat in four....

sono brian ed in modo da sono la mia moglie?

welcome back, q!!
posted by dash_slot- at 3:19 PM on September 16, 2003


To crack the hat in four.
posted by clavdivs at 3:25 PM on September 16, 2003


spaccare il capello in quattro

Caro, who's splitting hairs?
posted by romakimmy at 4:02 PM on September 16, 2003


no, "the hat" is "il cappello", double p

"il capello", one p, is "the hair"

and I'd use "split" instead of "crack" of course...

languagehat, please hope me!
posted by matteo at 4:03 PM on September 16, 2003


OK, romakimmy is languagehat then
posted by matteo at 4:04 PM on September 16, 2003


In the long run, we're all Miguel.
posted by konolia at 4:22 PM on September 16, 2003


especially Carlos
posted by matteo at 4:26 PM on September 16, 2003


Why don't you give that Miguel/Carlos business a rest, matteo? It's getting a little…well, you know.
posted by timeistight at 4:39 PM on September 16, 2003


In the long run, we're all Miguel.
posted by romakimmy at 4:39 PM on September 16, 2003


How the fuck did this turn back into a Miguel Discussion? Am I going to have to wait till the next phase of the moon to learn about the exciting conclusion of Y2K's and jonson's grudge match?
posted by Stan Chin at 4:51 PM on September 16, 2003


Yes, romakimmy is languagehat.

I, as it turns out, am Number 2. Strong but silent.

*glares quietly*
posted by languagehat at 4:57 PM on September 16, 2003


That's it, I'm cutting off my fucking right hand.

Yarrgh.
posted by Mid at 5:02 PM on September 16, 2003


In the long run, we're all Miguel.
posted by konolia at 4:22 PM PST on September 16

especially Carlos
posted by matteo at 4:26 PM PST on September 16

Why don't you give that Miguel/Carlos business a rest, matteo? It's getting a little…well, you know.
posted by timeistight at 4:39 PM PST on September 16


Yeah, why don't you give it a rest? I'm curious, matteo, why you can't leave that little chestnut alone. This thread is all about cracking open cans of worms and looking under rocks to see the squirmy things beneath them, so maybe this could be a good time to either talk about the issue or simply cease and desist talking about it at all, 'cause it is getting a little old.

Oh and mid, right hands that are free of their owners might be good currency in these here parts of the 'Filter. Offer it to quonsar . . .
posted by ashbury at 5:47 PM on September 16, 2003


I'm curious, matteo, why you can't leave that little chestnut alone.

I'm hardly mentioning it all the time ashbury (if I am please provide the links to my many, frequent comments about that, I'm curious)

and I don't give a happy fuck about Miguel+Carlos (as I am sure and hope they do re: myself), the larger issue is multiple identities and posting by proxy. both bad things, unfortunately.

like, suppose that I were both "matteo" and "ashbury" -- I could start a flame fest with a couple of fuck-you's in two minutes. I'm sorry to notice that you don't care about such things -- do you think it's OK to have multiple usernames?

ps I know that Miguel is a famous writer and Carlos is a famous I don't remember what, they're both famous in Portugal so they do have separate identities in RL, it was just a joke. and if a little Miguel/Carlos comment hurts you so much, in a thread this long, well sorry ashbury, or whoever "you" are

also, for all I know, you could be timeistight

posted by matteo at 6:01 PM on September 16, 2003


Speaking of multiple identities posting by proxy, how shocked would you all be to find out that I'm also y6y6y6? Very, I'd imagine. Very shocked indeed.
posted by jonson at 6:08 PM on September 16, 2003


weren't you y2karl?

ps
I'm Steve at Linnwood of course. and foldy, too
posted by matteo at 6:21 PM on September 16, 2003


That's it, I'm cutting off my fucking right hand.

Are you? Are you really?
posted by bshort at 6:22 PM on September 16, 2003


"negga n. Negga was a game where around fifty pubescesnt lads played a violent ball game. One Lad would start by throwing a tennis ball (but sometimes corky balls had been used by sixth formers) at one of the 50 lads. The lad who had been hit then joined the other lad and they worked together to catch all the remaining lads. At the end of the game you basically had 48 lads trying to throw the ball at 3 lads dashing everywhere trying not to get hit by the ball. The winner was obviously the last man standing. Negga Tennis was invented, exactly the same game with the odd lad having a tennis racket or bat of some description for added power". circa. 1994 UK (NW)



wheres foldy?
posted by clavdivs at 6:52 PM on September 16, 2003


I, as it turns out, am Number 2.

Please prepare yourselves for my most tasteless and inappropriate comment of all time; a spectacle not to be missed but also not to be repeated.

I thought tubgirl was Number 2.

Thank you, thank you. Please tip your bartenders and waitresses. Drive carefully, folks.
posted by yhbc at 7:04 PM on September 16, 2003


DEATH TO THE INFIDELS!

(and anybody who even pretends to link to that-which-should-never-be-spoken...yes, I'm looking at you, COMMISH...ALLAH WILL VOMIT YOU OUT OF HIS MOUTH!)
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:07 PM on September 16, 2003


Oooh, now you've done it yhbc. I hope your doors are locked and the windows are closed tight, because they are coming for you.
posted by dg at 7:42 PM on September 16, 2003


I'm Steve at Linnwood of course. and foldy, too

Then who the hell am I?

/me panics
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 7:50 PM on September 16, 2003


w00t !

300
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 7:51 PM on September 16, 2003


I was half expecting to see that Patrick McGoohan was Number 6...

"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"So how you gonna pay for this porn site if you don't have a MasterCard?"


And the first rule of Poo-Flinging Club is you do not talk about Poo-Flinging Club.

And which one of you is Mr. Brown?
Now, who was it you thought had more than one identity here?
posted by wendell at 10:32 PM on September 16, 2003


~chuckle~
posted by i_cola at 12:04 AM on September 17, 2003


wappa, wappa, wappa
posted by yhbc at 5:07 AM on September 17, 2003


feelingvaguelyannoyed
posted by Mid at 6:48 AM on September 17, 2003


And which one of you is Mr. Brown?

Mr. Brown is out of town.
posted by soyjoy at 7:52 AM on September 17, 2003


"O Defenders of All Things Duhbya"....
posted by dhoyt at 8:02 AM on September 17, 2003


I have a great story about sharing a canoe with a Portuguese tourist in an alligator-infested swamp last Southern Hemisphere summer, along with an hilarious (in Portuguese) joke about the fado-singing pigtail-eaters. But now I guess I'll have to save them for PortugalFilter, where standards are lower.
posted by hairyeyeball at 10:08 AM on September 17, 2003


ps I know that Miguel is a famous writer and Carlos is a famous I don't remember what...

I can't find it, but I think the MeTa quote you're thinking of went something like [cue dramatic music] "I am a famous writer and Carlos is an equally famous theatre director." Or something like that.

Maybe it's over on PortugalFilter.
posted by Shane at 10:22 AM on September 17, 2003


FWIW, if you google for "carlos Quevedo" director you actually do get some results. I'm sure I'm not teh first to do it, or probably even to mention it, but I'm always late to these things so I don't care.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:42 AM on September 17, 2003


like, suppose that I were both "matteo" and "ashbury" -- I could start a flame fest with a couple of fuck-you's in two minutes. I'm sorry to notice that you don't care about such things -- do you think it's OK to have multiple usernames?

matteo, of course I care whether somebody has two user names; it's not only mildy unscrupulous, but unfair to the rest of the MeFi population as well as giving lots of room for flamewars, as you suggested. I don't know where you get the idea that I don't care about such things, because I very much do care, and NO, I don't think it's ok to have multiple user names.

There have been many comments from many people regarding the many similarities in style that Carlos and Miguel share. I seem to recall that you were one of the many who commented about it on a regular basis, but it's entirely possible that I am wrong about that. If so, please accept my apologies.

I believe that the carlos/miguel issue has been resolved in a satisfactory manner. Despite this, some people continue to insinuate that they are one and the same and I don't think that it's a good idea, for any number of reasons that I won't go into here (just because I'm not feeling all that good and my thoughts aren't arranging themselves in a fashion that permits me to put them to the written word).
posted by ashbury at 11:38 AM on September 17, 2003


I think I'm starting to fall for the Boycott Miguel chick. I wonder if she'll still go out with me even if I do actually like Miguel...
posted by Space Coyote at 11:52 AM on September 17, 2003


hey ashbury, perhaps matteo is also a miguel double...


hmmm
posted by clavdivs at 11:56 AM on September 17, 2003


hmmm

WTF?!:


The reader will laugh itself at our distracção. But we have our excuses. It repairs: in the DNA , where if it publishes it chats ghost of the MEC, it appears, of fact, a reference to the automatic writing — but it is pages ahead. A persistent error of paging gives in these mistakes. In the heading "Friends, friends...", had to mention themselves that the first column is one "settles", an exercise of dictated writing other world. They were the explained things: the signature and over all the crónicas (because it understands yourself perfectly difficult quão even must be, being the redactor necessarily in settles hipnótico, to catch chats it distinct of MEC and pô it in the paper such and which it left the origin).
When me apercebi of that the MEC already did not exist? Late, much late. It was when in the estupidamente stubborn reading of the DNA I gave with me to pass directamente to the Quevedo


Is this Babelfish or did you and thomcat right this, clavdivs?
(I kid because I ♥)
posted by Shane at 12:07 PM on September 17, 2003


(right = write, damn is that an em-bare-assing one)
posted by Shane at 12:08 PM on September 17, 2003


Did you see the illustration on that article, Shane? (I googlized it this morning.)

When me apercebi of that the MEC already did not exist
For a few moments I had the panicstricken feeling that Carlos was actually pretending to be Miguel all this time, or that Migs was dead...(MEC is Miguel, for those that don't know.)

So, clavdivs, how long have you and thomcatspike been working for these translation services?
posted by konolia at 12:14 PM on September 17, 2003


Did you see the illustration on that article, Shane?

How could I miss it? Unfortunately I can't think of anything witty to say that doesn't involve that big cigar, and I'm not goin' there.
posted by Shane at 1:35 PM on September 17, 2003


Well, as Marx said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Right, Miggy?
posted by dash_slot- at 3:00 PM on September 17, 2003


And sometimes that cigar controls the means of production. Smokers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your lungs!
posted by arto at 3:08 PM on September 17, 2003


I thought that was Freud. Or am I missing the joke again?
posted by timeistight at 3:37 PM on September 17, 2003


Freud, Marx...

Actually, George Carlin is the one that's too mean to invoke.
posted by Shane at 4:18 PM on September 17, 2003


*suddenly wakes up*

So is this about me again?

Beejaysus, you took your time!

For all our groupies: Carlos is fine. But, bad news I'm afraid: he's getting married soon, to a wonderful girl. Perhaps this explains why he hasn't posted to MeFi for ages?

Sorry, boys!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 4:53 PM on September 17, 2003


But, bad news I'm afraid: he's getting married soon

I assume this means 7up_woman will be making her first post soon?
posted by yerfatma at 5:32 PM on September 17, 2003


Forget 7up_woman, I want to know when the "Boycott Miguel" gal is gonna make her first post!
posted by soyjoy at 7:53 PM on September 17, 2003


Johnson: Dont hold your breath. Nobody wants to download The Best of Foghat.
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:55 PM on September 17, 2003


I kid because I love.
posted by boycottgal at 9:35 PST on September 17

What, you got some kinda problem with Foghat? I love rock bands named after weather and headgear!
posted by arto at 9:52 PM on September 17, 2003


[waits for the Taste Cops to drag me into metametatalk....]
posted by arto at 9:58 PM on September 17, 2003


arto, that was truly amazing, but the ease with which you change your username makes me ... uneasy. Should I post a MeTa thread about that?
posted by Wulfgar! at 10:15 PM on September 17, 2003


MiguelCardoso has posted 344 links and 3083 comments to MetaFilter and 111 threads and 2111 comments to MetaTalk



I think the site is making fun of you.
posted by lazaruslong at 12:04 AM on September 18, 2003


Changed my username? Old boy, I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about.

and I had to make the boycottgal link point somewhere, didn't I?

And yeah, if somebody tried a stunt like that either a. impersonating a real user or b. in a thread that wasn't 300-plus comments of (mostly) unproductive MeTa bitching, and the usual subsequent goofy humour, yeah it Might Be An Issue. Anybody want some worms, now I've opened the can?
posted by arto at 12:05 AM on September 18, 2003


Haha, I can't believe my comments are actually making a difference. I'm serious. Why can't you let go of me, people?!
posted by Keyser Soze at 2:53 AM on September 18, 2003


And by the way, Miguel must be proud that this thread is over 300. Say something Miguel.
posted by Keyser Soze at 2:54 AM on September 18, 2003


Actually, George Carlin is the one that's too mean to invoke.

"...and sometimes a cigar is just a big brown dick!"

oh look, even more blithering nitwittery.
posted by t r a c y at 5:47 AM on September 18, 2003


oh look, even more blithering nitwittery.

So are you trying to extend the 'let's all talk about Miguel' thread beyond 400 posts?
posted by Space Coyote at 6:12 AM on September 18, 2003


FOUR HUNDRED OR BUST!
posted by davidmsc at 9:26 AM on September 18, 2003


he's getting married soon, to a wonderful girl.

let me guess, a presenter from the BBC right?
posted by carfilhiot at 10:06 AM on September 18, 2003


he's getting married soon, to a wonderful girl.

let me guess, a presenter from the BBC right?


Yeah, dude, is she, like, a totally hot baaaabe? Dude!
posted by Shane at 10:51 AM on September 18, 2003


he's getting married soon, to a wonderful girl.
let me guess, a presenter from the BBC right?
Yeah, dude, is she, like, a totally hot baaaabe? Dude


*listens to crickets chirping*

What..? Did I need sarcasm tags on that last comment?


OR IS THIS THREAD FINALLY FINISHED?!
posted by Shane at 6:41 PM on September 18, 2003


"Hitler".

Now it is. Please turn the lights out and lock the door when you leave.
posted by konolia at 6:53 PM on September 18, 2003


*click . . . cha-chak!*
posted by Shane at 7:26 PM on September 18, 2003


lites a match

wait now, what does hitler have to do with miguel?
posted by clavdivs at 7:28 PM on September 18, 2003


Sieg Heil!

If that doesn't kill it, nothing will.
posted by homunculus at 8:01 PM on September 18, 2003


TERRORIST!
posted by clavdivs at 8:13 PM on September 18, 2003


wait now, what does hitler have to do with miguel?

Godwin's Law, hon.

homunculus, even as a Bush supporter I find that photo hilarious/unnerving.

BTW, you know that dog he dropped? My daughter was in Washington last week on a school trip and when they were on the White House tour she got to play with that dog-he seems to be fine.
posted by konolia at 9:07 PM on September 18, 2003


homunculus, you mean Sieg Heil!
posted by quonsar at 9:18 PM on September 18, 2003


BUSH SUPPORTER!
posted by Space Coyote at 9:38 PM on September 18, 2003


Yeah. I'm the token. Affirmative action and all that.
posted by konolia at 9:43 PM on September 18, 2003


Hi, everyone! Am I late to the party?
posted by 40 Watt at 10:07 PM on September 18, 2003


Late? Naaah, not late at all. Uh, you wanna help pick up these empties? I'll split the last beer with ya...
posted by arto at 10:15 PM on September 18, 2003


*belches loudly*
posted by quonsar at 11:40 PM on September 18, 2003


*continues snoring while slumped in the corner, arm around a pot plant*
posted by dg at 12:36 AM on September 19, 2003


Avast, me hearties! Am I late to the keelhauling?
posted by wendell at 1:03 AM on September 19, 2003


Hi, everyone! Am I late to the party?
posted by 40 Watt at 10:07 PM PST on September 18


Do you drink a lot, 40 watt? 'Cuz then we could nickname you '40-Ounce,' aheh-heh. Okay, I'll quit now.
posted by Shane at 6:31 AM on September 19, 2003


Dammit, this thread is about to drop off the page. Now we really won't get to 400.
*grabs last beer from arto and takes a swig to forget his sorrows*
posted by languagehat at 7:13 AM on September 19, 2003


No, really, look! I made muffins and everything. Come on, where is everyone?

Damn.
posted by 40 Watt at 8:27 AM on September 19, 2003


Dammit, languagehat, I wanted you to *remember* my sorrows!

Howevarrrrr, these be the finest muffins what ever sailed the Spanish Main. 'Tis a repast fit for Blackbeard himself.
posted by arto at 8:36 AM on September 19, 2003


mmmmm, yer right, arto, these are awfully tasty... waitaminit, did dg help you make these?
posted by soyjoy at 9:49 AM on September 19, 2003


This thread is clinging to the edge of the bottom of the MeTa page by its fingernails, but it's going down! Any second it'll fall screaming into the abyss. I can feel it!
(Ironically, it will probably be a MeTa post by Miguel that pushes it off. Wait, that wouldn't be ironic, as it's exactly what you'd expect...)

("Arrh.")
posted by Shane at 10:16 AM on September 19, 2003


mmm... muffins...
posted by widdershins at 10:41 AM on September 19, 2003


waitaminit, did dg help you make these?

Shhhhhh...there, there. Sleep. That's it....good boy.

*whistling, proceeds to go through soyjoy's wallet*
posted by 40 Watt at 10:53 AM on September 19, 2003


zzzzzzzzzz... avast...ye......zzzzzzkurvy..... *drools*
posted by soyjoy at 1:49 PM on September 19, 2003


Beer? Look guys! I've got Maraschino liqueur!

Paaa(a-haaar)taaay!
posted by i_cola at 3:11 PM on September 19, 2003


Ah widdershins... I always knew you enjoyed the odd muffin.
posted by jonson at 5:48 PM on September 19, 2003


Dibs on the even ones.
posted by arto at 2:04 AM on September 20, 2003


pussies couldn't even make it to 400.

oh well, *pops a mentos* at least that leaves me and hippie chick here all by ourselves.

if only she didn't insist on wearing that creepy miguel mask whenever we go out in public
posted by dgaicun at 9:00 PM on September 22, 2003


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