I for one welcome our new marketing droid overlords September 29, 2003 8:20 AM Subscribe
I don't like these specifically because the title of the post is the brand name of the product. I'm sure that's part of Marketing 101, get the brand out there.
Rubs me the wrong way to see in in a MetaFilter post.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:46 AM on September 29, 2003
Rubs me the wrong way to see in in a MetaFilter post.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:46 AM on September 29, 2003
Are you joking dejah? The skyhigh post is a link to a parody site that doesn't appear to sell anything. How the hell is that marketing, and where does it not jive with the MetaFilter posting guidelines. If this is one of those magic-eye things, I still don't see it.
posted by insomnyuk at 8:48 AM on September 29, 2003
posted by insomnyuk at 8:48 AM on September 29, 2003
oh. alaskaair.com
nevermind. I still think its funny though.
posted by insomnyuk at 8:49 AM on September 29, 2003
nevermind. I still think its funny though.
posted by insomnyuk at 8:49 AM on September 29, 2003
Not droids per se, but it would be interesting to see what DomeORama's stake is in SkyHigh Airlines. She has been a member since October of 2001, and should know better, and it doesn't look like she's been guilty of this before, but I could be wrong. She admits in her user page that she's a web designer, but that's not uncommon. She posted about this to her own blog yesterday, too. Again. Not uncommon. Same words as in MeFi. No indication she's directly affiliated with it, but a guerilla advertiser wouldn't admit that.
Is Dome a dupe or a viral dropper? We can' t jump to conclusions. She may have honestly thought it was funny and deserved attention. She may or may not have known that it's related to an advertising campaign for a real airline. I agree that the realization this is viral marketing lessens or cheapens its linkage through MeFi, but should the thread be deleted on those grounds?
No. If anything it's an indication that this viral marketing attempt was successful at getting past MeFi's built in social defenses. Maybe we should let it benefit from that success. Alaska Air pulled one over on us. Bully for it! Congrats. Won't make me personally fly a plane to Juno any time soon. I got an ex-girlfriend up there, and make a point to stay as far away from there as possible. I mean, as commercial crap goes, this one isn't quite as annoying as most. It's entertaining. Benefit of the doubt and all that. I say keep it. Does that set a precedent? Perhaps, but when it comes to removing MeFi threads, I always prefer to see errors on the side of caution.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:59 AM on September 29, 2003
Is Dome a dupe or a viral dropper? We can' t jump to conclusions. She may have honestly thought it was funny and deserved attention. She may or may not have known that it's related to an advertising campaign for a real airline. I agree that the realization this is viral marketing lessens or cheapens its linkage through MeFi, but should the thread be deleted on those grounds?
No. If anything it's an indication that this viral marketing attempt was successful at getting past MeFi's built in social defenses. Maybe we should let it benefit from that success. Alaska Air pulled one over on us. Bully for it! Congrats. Won't make me personally fly a plane to Juno any time soon. I got an ex-girlfriend up there, and make a point to stay as far away from there as possible. I mean, as commercial crap goes, this one isn't quite as annoying as most. It's entertaining. Benefit of the doubt and all that. I say keep it. Does that set a precedent? Perhaps, but when it comes to removing MeFi threads, I always prefer to see errors on the side of caution.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:59 AM on September 29, 2003
Bah. If it's okay to post about They Might Be Giants being on tour, or a new version of a Beatles song, or a Family Guy movie, or the Pixies re-forming, then it should be okay to post a funny psuedo-ad for an airline. If it's not okay to post about travel products, then it shouldn't be okay to post about entertainment products.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:20 AM on September 29, 2003
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:20 AM on September 29, 2003
There's not a clear line between what we consider 'art' and what is 'entertainment products'
There does seem to be a consensus on the difference between a post about French cooking and a pepsi blue post. The posts in question gave me more a feeling of the latter.
posted by Space Coyote at 9:27 AM on September 29, 2003
There does seem to be a consensus on the difference between a post about French cooking and a pepsi blue post. The posts in question gave me more a feeling of the latter.
posted by Space Coyote at 9:27 AM on September 29, 2003
There's not a clear line between what we consider 'art' and what is 'entertainment products'
I'd say there's no line whatsoever, so complaining about "product-filter" really just means "product-I-happen-not-to-care-about-filter."
There does seem to be a consensus on the difference between a post about French cooking and a pepsi blue post. The posts in question gave me more a feeling of the latter.
I had the reverse experience. The posts about a new Beatles song or the Pixies coming back or TMBG being on tour felt like pure "New Pepsi Blue! Is New Pepsi Blue better or worse than Pepsi Blue Classic?" and "Pepsi Blue is back!" and "Go see the Pepsi Blue truck as it tours America!" to me, but the airline one was at least funny.
Which isn't to say that all art is necessarily merely a product, or that people shouldn't post links about their favorite media things. But complaining about "product-filter" posts of this sort in that context seems a bit churlish to me.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:47 AM on September 29, 2003
I'd say there's no line whatsoever, so complaining about "product-filter" really just means "product-I-happen-not-to-care-about-filter."
There does seem to be a consensus on the difference between a post about French cooking and a pepsi blue post. The posts in question gave me more a feeling of the latter.
I had the reverse experience. The posts about a new Beatles song or the Pixies coming back or TMBG being on tour felt like pure "New Pepsi Blue! Is New Pepsi Blue better or worse than Pepsi Blue Classic?" and "Pepsi Blue is back!" and "Go see the Pepsi Blue truck as it tours America!" to me, but the airline one was at least funny.
Which isn't to say that all art is necessarily merely a product, or that people shouldn't post links about their favorite media things. But complaining about "product-filter" posts of this sort in that context seems a bit churlish to me.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:47 AM on September 29, 2003
I don't really care one way or the other about product posts, but I should point out to those interested in advertising posts that adland is a much better place to put them. It's been brought up before in other "product-filter" posts. I think if an ad campaign has an effect on pop culture (ie "where's the beef!?") then it's safe fodder for MeFi, but outside of that I can't see the point.
I work in ad agencies in production. Generally speaking, I think most would find the value of getting on to MeFi fairly limiting. Yes, I know there are millions of page views and a fairly large community, but Alaska Air is regional and most of the people here who see the site will have no use for Alaska's services. Add to that the fact that there is *no* demographic information on the users here and it quickly drops in value. Ad agencies LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE demographic information. If they were to start a viral campaign they'd use forums and boards of more commercial sites, where they'd have access to that kind of information.
I guess what I'm saying is: get over yourselves, people. The posts I'd worry about are the "what do you do/where do you live/what do you like to eat" style meta posts. Lie! Don't tell them anything! Claim to be a vegetarian octegenarian living in a Yurt in Florida! Cause it's that kind of info the marketing people lust after.
posted by Salmonberry at 10:15 AM on September 29, 2003
I work in ad agencies in production. Generally speaking, I think most would find the value of getting on to MeFi fairly limiting. Yes, I know there are millions of page views and a fairly large community, but Alaska Air is regional and most of the people here who see the site will have no use for Alaska's services. Add to that the fact that there is *no* demographic information on the users here and it quickly drops in value. Ad agencies LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE demographic information. If they were to start a viral campaign they'd use forums and boards of more commercial sites, where they'd have access to that kind of information.
I guess what I'm saying is: get over yourselves, people. The posts I'd worry about are the "what do you do/where do you live/what do you like to eat" style meta posts. Lie! Don't tell them anything! Claim to be a vegetarian octegenarian living in a Yurt in Florida! Cause it's that kind of info the marketing people lust after.
posted by Salmonberry at 10:15 AM on September 29, 2003
(Oh, and I should also add, yes I know if it's linked here it ends up on other blogs - again, for a regional product like Alaska it's limited. If I saw a post on Zoloft or Pepsi Blue or another generic, populace-wise product that didn't have a connection to any larger cultural phenomenon, I'd consider that a blatant product post.)
posted by Salmonberry at 10:22 AM on September 29, 2003
posted by Salmonberry at 10:22 AM on September 29, 2003
Claim to be a vegetarian octegenarian
You eat comatose old people??
You sick bastard.
posted by jonmc at 10:41 AM on September 29, 2003
You eat comatose old people??
You sick bastard.
posted by jonmc at 10:41 AM on September 29, 2003
What ROU_Xenophobe said.
Sorry about getting in the way of all your wonderful news, war, Bush, and "what's your favorite beverage?" posts.
Something interesting comes along and we find reasons why it's a bad post? You're kidding right? If you want to weed out bad posts then please start with the ones that are 100% bad rather than jump on something borderline bad.
And what the fuck? Seriously. What. The. Fuck. Why do we care if it's viral marketing? If marketers want to give us free, entertaining content then good for them. The test shouldn't be, "Is this trying to sell me something". The test should be, "Is this interesting."
Earth to MeFi users - Almost every post over the last four years has been trying to sell you something. Bunch of f'ing dumbasses.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:48 AM on September 29, 2003
Sorry about getting in the way of all your wonderful news, war, Bush, and "what's your favorite beverage?" posts.
Something interesting comes along and we find reasons why it's a bad post? You're kidding right? If you want to weed out bad posts then please start with the ones that are 100% bad rather than jump on something borderline bad.
And what the fuck? Seriously. What. The. Fuck. Why do we care if it's viral marketing? If marketers want to give us free, entertaining content then good for them. The test shouldn't be, "Is this trying to sell me something". The test should be, "Is this interesting."
Earth to MeFi users - Almost every post over the last four years has been trying to sell you something. Bunch of f'ing dumbasses.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:48 AM on September 29, 2003
You know y6y6y6, when I get cranky and upset, I find a nice Pepsi Blue helps calm me down. That, and I write out all my problems in my Moleskine notebook while listening to Wilco on my iPod. Try that and see if it helps you calm down a little.
posted by Salmonberry at 10:56 AM on September 29, 2003
posted by Salmonberry at 10:56 AM on September 29, 2003
Sorry, in my attempt to be humorous, I may have unwittingly cast aspersions upon Dome-O-Rama and starscream, which was not my intention.
However, seeing two "branded" entries in a row caused my spidey senses to tingle. Were either of them in posts that had some semblance of context, or something, I don't think either of them would have struck me as viral.
For example, if in Dome-O-Rama's post she had stated that she knew it was a marketing ploy of Alaska Air, or perhaps given some context of the use of satire as a marketing structure for the demographic that MeFi mostly represents....or, if starscream had given us some links to stuttering research, other methods that have been tried, a history of how stutterers have been treated throughout history...something, anything other than just a brand name with a link to the corporate site...
My point is that without context, these entries seem like ad placements without compensation.
posted by dejah420 at 11:07 AM on September 29, 2003
However, seeing two "branded" entries in a row caused my spidey senses to tingle. Were either of them in posts that had some semblance of context, or something, I don't think either of them would have struck me as viral.
For example, if in Dome-O-Rama's post she had stated that she knew it was a marketing ploy of Alaska Air, or perhaps given some context of the use of satire as a marketing structure for the demographic that MeFi mostly represents....or, if starscream had given us some links to stuttering research, other methods that have been tried, a history of how stutterers have been treated throughout history...something, anything other than just a brand name with a link to the corporate site...
My point is that without context, these entries seem like ad placements without compensation.
posted by dejah420 at 11:07 AM on September 29, 2003
Salmonberry. Yes, I get it already. But what's better? Those product posts? Or any of the Bush/Iraq posts in the last few days? As much as I loathed that fucking Moleskine thread, and even though the Pepsi Blue post was a bit gratuitous, I would lobby you that they were better MeFi posts than 9 out of 10 Iraq posts.
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:30 AM on September 29, 2003
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:30 AM on September 29, 2003
We must keep the evil corporations from infesting our commune!
posted by angry modem at 12:14 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by angry modem at 12:14 PM on September 29, 2003
Neither post came off as overly commercial to me. There are lots of product links on mefi, but only a few posts truly suck and sound like press releases.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:19 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:19 PM on September 29, 2003
product-I-happen-not-to-care-about-filter
pretty much. it's not as if there's some clear definition of art, hell even viral marketing can be art (although it would be nice to be able to recognize it as marketing...then again maybe not-recognizing it is part of what makes it art...?)
maybe matt can make it so that no one can post again, ever, and there will just be a big blank blue page (and naturally many MeTa discussions about how cool/offensive/etc. #006699 is)
posted by dorian at 12:20 PM on September 29, 2003
pretty much. it's not as if there's some clear definition of art, hell even viral marketing can be art (although it would be nice to be able to recognize it as marketing...then again maybe not-recognizing it is part of what makes it art...?)
maybe matt can make it so that no one can post again, ever, and there will just be a big blank blue page (and naturally many MeTa discussions about how cool/offensive/etc. #006699 is)
posted by dorian at 12:20 PM on September 29, 2003
Of course everyone is always free to post about Steve Jobs' latest bowel movement ;)
posted by Space Coyote at 12:27 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by Space Coyote at 12:27 PM on September 29, 2003
Of course everyone is always free to post about Steve Jobs' latest bowel movement ;)
You mean the G5?
AH-HOTCHA!
Christ, I suck.
posted by Skot at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2003
You mean the G5?
AH-HOTCHA!
Christ, I suck.
posted by Skot at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2003
The test shouldn't be, "Is this trying to sell me something". The test should be, "Is this interesting."
I hate to have to agree with someone who insists upon making his points in such an unpleasant fashion (not the quoted bit, the other bits), but I do agree with this.
posted by rushmc at 12:54 PM on September 29, 2003
I hate to have to agree with someone who insists upon making his points in such an unpleasant fashion (not the quoted bit, the other bits), but I do agree with this.
posted by rushmc at 12:54 PM on September 29, 2003
naow, the test should be, "Is this interesting and will I be able live my life without buying it and thus feel eversogood about myself?"
*zipper sounds*
hey. Jesus didn't wear pants, and you're not Jesus. (er, are you? sorry, Lord...)
posted by dorian at 1:14 PM on September 29, 2003
*zipper sounds*
hey. Jesus didn't wear pants, and you're not Jesus. (er, are you? sorry, Lord...)
posted by dorian at 1:14 PM on September 29, 2003
"..... who insists upon making his points in such an unpleasant fashion"
In your rush to condemn the messanger, you forgot to point out my punctuation errors.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:16 PM on September 29, 2003
In your rush to condemn the messanger, you forgot to point out my punctuation errors.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:16 PM on September 29, 2003
This space for rent.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:56 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:56 PM on September 29, 2003
I saw the "SkyHigh Airlines" commercials before I saw the MeFi thread (they've done it on-and-off for years, and Alaska flies between California and Seattle, so it's a good resource for Left Coast people who have to deal with Microshaft...), and I got a good chuckle over it... Of course, every time an advertiser creates a "parody" competitor to be featured in their spots, they are, essentially, doing a "Straw Man" arguement, which is one cheap debating trick that usually gets slammed in a MeFi political thread. So when is it OK to use commerially? My judgement is, it has to be honestly entertaining and well-executed (this one is), and it must be subtle in its connection to the real sponsor (commercials almost never are, websites can be).
posted by wendell at 2:05 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by wendell at 2:05 PM on September 29, 2003
The test shouldn't be, "Is this trying to sell me something". The test should be, "Is this interesting."
Exactly. This site was interesting and funny. Of course it was trying to sell us something but then isn't almost every site in existence? Including MetaFilter (or did you think that those Google ads were community announcements?).
If you make a condition that a site with any form of advertising is taboo, you are going to cut off about 90% of the content available and what is left will be pretty poor fodder indeed. There is a line that must be drawn, of course, but a site that provides entertainment and slips in a few links to a commercial operation is nowhere near that line. Personally, I would rather see that than most of the flash-ad, banner loaded, spyware impregnated sites that pass for free news agencies any day.
posted by dg at 3:03 PM on September 29, 2003
Exactly. This site was interesting and funny. Of course it was trying to sell us something but then isn't almost every site in existence? Including MetaFilter (or did you think that those Google ads were community announcements?).
If you make a condition that a site with any form of advertising is taboo, you are going to cut off about 90% of the content available and what is left will be pretty poor fodder indeed. There is a line that must be drawn, of course, but a site that provides entertainment and slips in a few links to a commercial operation is nowhere near that line. Personally, I would rather see that than most of the flash-ad, banner loaded, spyware impregnated sites that pass for free news agencies any day.
posted by dg at 3:03 PM on September 29, 2003
However, seeing two "branded" entries in a row caused my spidey senses to tingle.
Shouldn't that be "spidey™ senses"?
posted by timeistight at 4:07 PM on September 29, 2003
Shouldn't that be "spidey™ senses"?
posted by timeistight at 4:07 PM on September 29, 2003
Why should people get all excited about a parody website that can be traced back to Alaska Air?
I’ll tell you why: through the years Alaska Air has won just about every award possible for their outstanding customer service. Their employees know this business and they know how to excel. They also have a secret ingredient, one they call “Alaska Spirit.” It is what creates the pride, passion and perseverance that sets Alaska apart from the competition.
posted by eddydamascene at 4:47 PM on September 29, 2003
I’ll tell you why: through the years Alaska Air has won just about every award possible for their outstanding customer service. Their employees know this business and they know how to excel. They also have a secret ingredient, one they call “Alaska Spirit.” It is what creates the pride, passion and perseverance that sets Alaska apart from the competition.
posted by eddydamascene at 4:47 PM on September 29, 2003
Do you people get paid for this stuff? Where do you sign up?
posted by timeistight at 4:55 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by timeistight at 4:55 PM on September 29, 2003
Where do you sign up?
IIRC, the three largest viral marketing groups are the Intranet Marketing Organization, the Internet Impact Research Consortium, and the newly merged Rayleigh Online Technologies/Fordham Ltd. Marketing and Advertising Organization. Associate positions are offered only on referral, but employees are easy to spot -- in addition to random product pitches, they have a contractual obligation to mention their employer in high profile locations.
posted by eddydamascene at 7:10 PM on September 29, 2003
IIRC, the three largest viral marketing groups are the Intranet Marketing Organization, the Internet Impact Research Consortium, and the newly merged Rayleigh Online Technologies/Fordham Ltd. Marketing and Advertising Organization. Associate positions are offered only on referral, but employees are easy to spot -- in addition to random product pitches, they have a contractual obligation to mention their employer in high profile locations.
posted by eddydamascene at 7:10 PM on September 29, 2003
Well to add my 2c, I thought the post was fine (although I didn't find the site particularly hilarious) but what I found odd was Dome-o-Rama's claim that she didn't know it was linked to Alaska Air. That's all.
posted by nomis at 7:33 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by nomis at 7:33 PM on September 29, 2003
Please let's ban all links to sites that are obviously commercial. I think it's too easy to use mefi as an ad pimp this way and it makes me feel all yucky.
posted by carfilhiot at 7:36 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by carfilhiot at 7:36 PM on September 29, 2003
MetaFilter will never have a shortage of prissy little hall monitors who are more taken with the rules of discussion than the discussion itself. It was a great site, and it deserved a posting.
posted by troybob at 10:36 PM on September 29, 2003
posted by troybob at 10:36 PM on September 29, 2003
Well to add my 2c, I thought the post was fine (although I didn't find the site particularly hilarious) but what I found odd was Dome-o-Rama's claim that she didn't know it was linked to Alaska Air. That's all.
Yes, and then she threatened to kill her mother. Get Ashcroft on the line, we've got a live one here.
posted by mmoncur at 2:48 AM on September 30, 2003
Yes, and then she threatened to kill her mother. Get Ashcroft on the line, we've got a live one here.
posted by mmoncur at 2:48 AM on September 30, 2003
"MetaFilter will never have a shortage of prissy little hall monitors who are more taken with the rules of discussion than the discussion itself. It was a great site, and it deserved a posting".
MetaFilter will also never have a shortage of arrogant little Usenet nostalgics who are more taken with a confused idea of "freedom" than the quality of the site itself. It was a marginally funny site, and the fact that it was actual advertising (however smart) for an actual company deserved a mention in the post.
posted by matteo at 2:57 AM on September 30, 2003
MetaFilter will also never have a shortage of arrogant little Usenet nostalgics who are more taken with a confused idea of "freedom" than the quality of the site itself. It was a marginally funny site, and the fact that it was actual advertising (however smart) for an actual company deserved a mention in the post.
posted by matteo at 2:57 AM on September 30, 2003
...these are not the droids you're looking for.
[/obligatory]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:10 AM on September 30, 2003
[/obligatory]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:10 AM on September 30, 2003
Please let's ban all links to sites that are obviously political. I think it's too easy to use mefi as an partisan pimp this way and it makes me feel all yucky.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 5:51 AM on September 30, 2003
posted by Slithy_Tove at 5:51 AM on September 30, 2003
arrogant little Usenet nostalgics who are more taken with a confused idea of "freedom"
Think you've got your Usenet nostalgics mixed up with your non-aspirin analgesics. Or something. Usenet nostalgics would be strongly in favor of order, self-moderation, and community norms.
posted by kindall at 12:40 PM on September 30, 2003
Think you've got your Usenet nostalgics mixed up with your non-aspirin analgesics. Or something. Usenet nostalgics would be strongly in favor of order, self-moderation, and community norms.
posted by kindall at 12:40 PM on September 30, 2003
and lots of porn.
posted by crunchland at 2:33 PM on September 30, 2003
posted by crunchland at 2:33 PM on September 30, 2003
There's nothing wrong with yucky.
Except that yucky.com is shilling for Discovery Communications' 37 cable channels, featuring 22 "surprise" remodeling shows including 11 variations on "Trading Spaces", 7 shows hosted by "The Crocodile Hunter", 9 "Shark Weeks" a year, 6 Las Vegas travel specials a week, and one whole channel "in partnership with The New York Times" (now THAT'S scary).
posted by wendell at 3:06 PM on September 30, 2003
Except that yucky.com is shilling for Discovery Communications' 37 cable channels, featuring 22 "surprise" remodeling shows including 11 variations on "Trading Spaces", 7 shows hosted by "The Crocodile Hunter", 9 "Shark Weeks" a year, 6 Las Vegas travel specials a week, and one whole channel "in partnership with The New York Times" (now THAT'S scary).
posted by wendell at 3:06 PM on September 30, 2003
And, oh yes, the mascot of yucky.com is Wendell the Worm, who I am personally suing for trademark violation.
posted by wendell at 3:08 PM on September 30, 2003
posted by wendell at 3:08 PM on September 30, 2003
Thanks wendell, I think that means I'm right - *adds another one to the grand total*. and slithy_tove if you can't see a difference between pimping commercial goods as opposed to political views, well then... it's no wonder you're a republican! At least you can disagree with the political post. If you disagree with a commercial post you get all the anti-mefi-police-police on your back.
posted by carfilhiot at 5:06 PM on September 30, 2003
posted by carfilhiot at 5:06 PM on September 30, 2003
something, anything other than just a brand name with a link to the corporate site...
Like this post, you mean?
posted by anastasiav at 12:36 PM on October 1, 2003
Like this post, you mean?
posted by anastasiav at 12:36 PM on October 1, 2003
also, is it:
MetaFilter: a shortage of prissy little hall monitors
or
MetaFilter: prissy little hall monitors
??
posted by anastasiav at 12:38 PM on October 1, 2003
MetaFilter: a shortage of prissy little hall monitors
or
MetaFilter: prissy little hall monitors
??
posted by anastasiav at 12:38 PM on October 1, 2003
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
(I'm not talking about the poster, but the advertiser). They should buy textads for that, or stick to announcing their viral campaigns on community sites dedicated to precisely that (there are plenty all over the web, including one that I host).
posted by dabitch at 8:34 AM on September 29, 2003