I think it should be deleted. Am I wrong?

October 3, 2003 8:30 AM

One of the worst posts I've seen in a long time. No focus or point of discussion, just a jumble of links. I think it should be deleted. Am I wrong?
posted by johnnydark to etiquette/policy at 8:30 AM (52 comments total)

"Sounds Of North American Frogs"

Wow!!!!! Great post!!!!!
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:32 AM on October 3, 2003

One of the worst posts I've seen in a long time.

How did you miss this one?
posted by pardonyou? at 8:40 AM on October 3, 2003

You're one to talk, johnnydark.
posted by xmutex at 8:40 AM on October 3, 2003

Good post, in my opinion. It makes light of the emergence of a "new" word without going overboard into the political implications. The word "frogmarch" is cool and funny.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 8:55 AM on October 3, 2003

I weigh in with my beer belly and say this was a fine post and shouldn't be deleted. It was a kind of stream of consciousness linkcapture of the Internet at a point in time when this seemingly nonesuch word from the past, "frogmarch," enters modern parlance. I found it rather refreshing, fun, thought provoking, interesting, and encouraged not only further discussion but also further link searching. Although perhaps not an example of what constitutes an ideal post, as I questioned in this forum yesterday, there is no such thing as an ideal MeFi post. One man's trash is another's treasure and all that.

Soyjoy captured a moment in societal history that will perhaps be forgotten but nonetheless at least is deserving of a haiku in the footnotes of history.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:02 AM on October 3, 2003

You must not have liked the dual zombie posts then, either.
posted by me3dia at 9:04 AM on October 3, 2003

"The word "frogmarch" is cool and funny."

Exactly. And a post about the word (phrase?) might have been cool. But the post is just a random pile of frog links, some of which seem to be related to "frogmarch". I'd be interested in knowing where the word came from, what it means, discussion of how it's taking on a new life of it's own.

It's cool, but the post somehow avoids that. It's like a good "frog-marched" post on Tourette syndrome.
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:07 AM on October 3, 2003

Just trying to turn over a new leaf and figure out what is good here and what is bad.
posted by johnnydark at 9:08 AM on October 3, 2003

It's Friday fun day.
Soyjoy, you're OK.

Time for a NYT editorial on frog march-haters!
posted by nofundy at 9:09 AM on October 3, 2003

I'd be interested in knowing where the word came from, what it means, discussion of how it's taking on a new life of it's own.

y6, trying not to be snarky (since I was already to you in the blue)... but...

Frog March. Frog March. Frog March.
posted by soyjoy at 9:11 AM on October 3, 2003

I was interested to discover this term, but would have preferred that the post get to the point without all the extraneous links. I don't really compare this to the "zombie" posts which were obvious pointless fun.
posted by Tubes at 9:13 AM on October 3, 2003

(And, I should add, I don't think the post should be deleted, it just didn't work for me. it's far from the worst post I've ever seen. For me: A swing and a miss. I'd put it in the 60th percentile. I'm just sayin.)
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:15 AM on October 3, 2003

It's Friday fun day.

nofundy - Sunday is my fun day. My I don't have to run day.
posted by willnot at 9:18 AM on October 3, 2003

"Frog March. Frog March. Frog March."

See? How hard was that? [this is good]

(christ..... I need to get a life)
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:20 AM on October 3, 2003

Thumbs down.
posted by rushmc at 9:33 AM on October 3, 2003

I enjoyed it tremendously. I think the jump from link to link was entirely suited to the froggery involved.

*pins the gold "ISM" (I Survived MeTa) medal on soyjoy*
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:36 AM on October 3, 2003

Let's face the facts: Frogs just can't compete with zombies in today's internet and cultural market.
posted by dgaicun at 9:40 AM on October 3, 2003

Cards on the table... I really hate these multi-link posts, they do little to promote discussion... and when they're bad (as in this case, IMHO), they're really bad.
posted by skylar at 9:41 AM on October 3, 2003

I'm with johnny.
posted by johnny7 at 9:56 AM on October 3, 2003

I love the frog march post. The best link is this Washington Post article:

"I have the image of a guard on each side grabbing one arm and lifting both feet off the ground, and the legs are scrambling for purchase on the ground, and hence kinked like a frog's — but that's just my mental image," says Mike Agnes, editor in chief of Webster's New World Dictionaries.

posted by sudama at 9:59 AM on October 3, 2003

Good post, in my opinion. It makes light of the emergence of a "new" word without going overboard into the political implications. The word "frogmarch" is cool and funny.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 8:55 AM PST on October 3

Thank you, Ignatius J. Reilly. Your wisdom moves upon us like the wind of a college freshman cliche.
posted by the fire you left me at 10:04 AM on October 3, 2003

"would have preferred that the post get to the point without all the extraneous links..."

In other words you would have preferred that not only the instigator of the FPP do all the (frog)leg work and find all these links for you, but that he actually tell you what's on the other side of all the links so you don't have to read for yourself the entymology and the amusement. You'd prefer the FPP tell you all that so you don't have to. Well. Tough! My bet is the ones complaining didn't click on all the links, or hover their mouse over the links to see the well notated use of alternate textual descriptors.

I say it was a great post, Soyjoy! What a way to keep'm hoppin'!
posted by ZachsMind at 10:11 AM on October 3, 2003

Any post that talks about frogmarching Karl Rove the hell out of D.C. works for me. I do have a complaint about the ones that tried to install fonts - they made Mozilla crash (and the baby Jesus cry!). A warning on links that try to do something to your computer would be appreciated.
posted by Lynsey at 10:20 AM on October 3, 2003

It's okay to shit all over the front page as long as it's Friday.
posted by jjg at 10:21 AM on October 3, 2003

Heh. entymology is naturally of great interest to frogs, Zach.

Thanks for your great testimonial, BTW. And, of course, all the ribbits.
posted by soyjoy at 10:24 AM on October 3, 2003

"In other words you would have preferred that the instigator of the FPP do all the work and find all these links for you"

Ummmmm......... Yes? Isn't that sort of the point of posting a MetaFilter thread?

Or have I been confused and posts are actually suppose to be a link obstacle course? Sort of like a web surfing workout?

Yes, I expect posters to find the best links for me. Duh. Double duh.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:27 AM on October 3, 2003

no, I'm with johnny.
posted by johnny novak at 10:36 AM on October 3, 2003

Well, just one look at the post pretty much says what "Kind" it is. So just pass it by if it's not your cup of tea. I thought that it was fine, although I have been frogmarched into Metatalk more than once. . .
posted by Danf at 10:59 AM on October 3, 2003

Frogs don't march, they hop.

(And does johnnydark or anyone else really think that a MeTa callout will go anywhere on this, as this is clearly the type of concept-post that will be loved/hated equally? Why bother?)
posted by Shane at 11:01 AM on October 3, 2003

Oops. I meant etymology, which I confused with entomology which woulda worked as a play on words except that woulda been herpetology. But yeah, frogs like bugs so it all works out.

"Yes? Isn't that sort of the point..."

Well, yes and no. ...Actually not really at all, no, come to think of it.

MetaFilter's purpose (IMNSHO) is to allow people to bring to one another's attentions everything the Web has to offer that is inherently linkworthy. It filters the web and (in theory) brings the most notable and worthy elements to the edge of the shore, so you can pick at it like a seagull on the beach at lowtide. However, it's not anyone's job to summarize the Web highlights for you so you don't have to surf any of it yourself.

A FPP should give an idea what to expect without giving up the farm. It's supposed to encourage one to click on the link, not tell them everything necessary in order to help them avoid clicking. This is one of many fallacies about MeFi under which I've noticed some people in the community operate. Ideally, a FPP could attempt to explain why said link should be of interest to you. However, that'd be icing on the cake. It really just needs to whet your appetite, rather than be the main course.

A FPP is like a worm on a hook, and you're the fish. Haven't you ever wondered why MeFi is blue? *splash*
posted by ZachsMind at 11:34 AM on October 3, 2003

soy2karl!

thumbs up. whiners, stifle it.

Well, just one look at the post pretty much says what "Kind" it is. So just pass it by if it's not your cup of tea.

Bing! Points for Danf.
posted by stonerose at 11:47 AM on October 3, 2003

but who will think of the gondola?
posted by quonsar at 11:57 AM on October 3, 2003

OK, I resisted spelling this out because it's unsuited to the frivolous tone of the FPP. But for anyone who's curious, here's my thinking:

As with the infamous Indian Rope Trick thread, I thought this subject called for something different from the standard one- or two-link post. For one thing, "frog march" is a funny-sounding term, not least because it juxtaposes two things that don't go together. For another, it calls to mind a mental image, but probably not exactly the same image for every person. And that's because - and this is key - there's still not 100% agreement on exactly what happens in the case of a frog-march.

(The version I enjoy the most is: "I have the image of a guard on each side grabbing one arm and lifting both feet off the ground, and the legs are scrambling for purchase on the ground, and hence kinked like a frog's -- but that's just my mental image," says Mike Agnes, editor in chief of Webster's New World Dictionaries.)

So obviously I included that page, but there were other amusing, loosely related factors - such as Karl Rove himself looking like a frog, and the fact that the war, which started in March, was so famously opposed by the French - that begged to be included. And once I found that there was an actual painting depicting a march of frogs, I thought others might also find that somewhat surprising/entertaining.

This was all put together with the fact that I enjoy chanting "Frog March," and liked the idea of a post that would chant those words. It may have gone overboard with one or two, but I figured if I could do it in 3 lines or less, people who hate this stuff could quickly scroll past, while those who took the time to examine the links would uncover the heretofore unseen richness inherent in this newly emerging, slowly coalescing phrase.

Christ, I'm starting to sound like Miguel - maybe it's this 'ISM' pin I'm wearing. I suddenly have an urge to drink martinis and smoke cigars. Will this pass?
posted by soyjoy at 12:06 PM on October 3, 2003

I think it's a bit much to ask tens of thousands of readers to ride along with one on one's stream-of-consciousness. Metafilter aims to, well, filter, not to serve as canvas for someone's strained attempts at synthesis. Links should stand on their own, not be propped up by creative presentation.

And yes, I AM cranky today, thanks.
posted by rushmc at 12:24 PM on October 3, 2003

quick, everyone! shit over here!
posted by stonerose at 12:33 PM on October 3, 2003

I didn't think it was possible, but you've made Fark look like a paragon of wit and sophistication. Congratulations soyjoy!
posted by jjg at 12:37 PM on October 3, 2003

Either work the problem or quit whining about it. Real simple.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:44 PM on October 3, 2003

Oh. And I've yet to hear anyone rationally explain why "newsfiltery" and "fark-like" are bad, so first ya gotta prove there actually is a problem. I for one am not convinced, nor is much of the active members of the community, since they instigate and participate in threads that try some other people's patience. Or are you one of those people who hypocritically whines and complains, then turns around and posts or replies to the very kinds of threads you don't want to see in MeFi, even to attempt to derail the thread by saying how bad it is?

Yeah. You heard me. Hypocrites. Either poop or git off the pot. Help identify and solve the problem, or shut up and let the rest of us enjoy ourselves.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:49 PM on October 3, 2003

Thank you, Ignatius J. Reilly. Your wisdom moves upon us like the wind of a college freshman cliche.

fire you left me:
What is your fucking problem? E-mail me if you have a problem, if I said something mean to you in second grade or something. This is two threads in two days in which your only contribution has been to call me an idiot, wittout any reason. It's not like you're pointing out why I'm a dumbass. In the comment you so cleverly pasted, I wasn't really trying to impress anyone, ya know, so much as discuss the issue at hand in this thread.

I could not be any less interested in some Metafilter personality clash. I am reasonable. If you have a problem with me, talk to me about it. If you are allergic to email, than you're going to need to be somewhat communciative when trolling on this site. Otherwise, I'm going to remain unenlightened by whatever it is that has crafted you into a paragon of reason. What I will not do is just trade anonymous and pointless insults with someone who is (quite bizarrely) more interested in me than in what I'm saying (and who usually isn't saying anything him/herself). So if you want to just remain an aonymous troll, that's cool, but you could choose to actually say something.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 12:55 PM on October 3, 2003

Ah, yes, another FPP debate. Remember how we solved the last one? Martinis. Soyjoy, everyone, the MetaBar is open and I'm ready when you are. For what it's worth, I enjoyed it and marvel at the effort. Cheers.
posted by moonbird at 1:23 PM on October 3, 2003

attention Miguel: I need a new drink to be obsessed with... *ducking*
posted by ZachsMind at 1:29 PM on October 3, 2003

Either poop or git off the pot.

No thanks. Your pooping all over your fellow members for no discernible reason is not an example worth emulating.
posted by rushmc at 1:29 PM on October 3, 2003

quick, everyone! shit over here!
posted by stonerose at 2:06 PM on October 3, 2003

Someone making anyone click through the frog. March?

All anal retentives may and should take a pass on posts that they find humorless.

I was tapping my foot, then I started drumming on my desk...I may have a #1hit! How dare johnnydark frog march soyjoy into here. The nerve.

Lighten up folks. Not all FPP posts should be serious, should they now?
posted by alicesshoe at 2:52 PM on October 3, 2003

I would like to state for the record that this post didn't look all that interesting to me in the .4 seconds it took to glance at, so I did what people are always saying one should do in that situation: I IGNORED IT.

Yay for soyjoy and for me!
posted by scarabic at 3:18 PM on October 3, 2003

I've yet to hear anyone rationally explain why "newsfiltery" and "fark-like" are bad,

Zach, what is "new" with you?...oh excuse me this off the wire; somebigfamousguy guy whom I don't associate with, is running for governor in a state I don't live in and the whole world thinks he is not worthy...so Zach you were telling me...hold on, just in: Bush is bad...now Zach you were saying...hold on, red alert: life sucks...Zach don't have time for you today, the news just said which must be true, I have 10 seconds to live...did you know?...Zach, Zach ...are you there?

Too much news sucks besides I have my own crap to think about. If you're too busy gossiping about the world you'll never focus in on your interests & life, just others'. But it's fun debunking the news why they may exist here too.

But ever go camping come home and have no clue to the current events, then think how nice was that, great vacation?
posted by thomcatspike at 4:05 PM on October 3, 2003

Actually. No. I don't think I ever have. Long vacations away from society out in the wild are overrated.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:44 PM on October 3, 2003

I would like to state for the record that this post didn't look all that interesting to me in the .4 seconds it took to glance at, so I did what people are always saying one should do in that situation: I IGNORED IT

The first link I saw was Kermit, so I followed you on this one scarabic ;)
posted by starscream at 7:12 PM on October 3, 2003

thomcatspike, you should read "...And Now the News" by Theodore Sturgeon. I think you'll like it.
posted by languagehat at 7:26 PM on October 3, 2003

What I find ironic is Mr. Twisted Testicles--talk about fark! talk about a post that should be deleted!--thought the frog march post was so unworthy he made this pointless craptacular call out.
posted by y2karl at 9:34 PM on October 3, 2003

y2karl: indeed, the link first appeared on fark before it was FPP'd.
posted by moonbird at 12:09 PM on October 4, 2003

Apart from the obvious pot, meet kettle aspect to this waste of screen ink, I don't see any real problem with the thread and it was a great attempt at presenting information in a humorous light.

Also, what thomcatspike said, only in English.
posted by dg at 3:26 PM on October 5, 2003