9-11 Tribute Overload September 11, 2004 8:32 AM Subscribe
Can we agree not to post any more 9-11 links today? I will Nevar Forget, but it's all been said to death.
Likewise, let's have just one post on December 7th.
Likewise, let's have just one post on December 7th.
Oh. Fair enough! I didn't read them, obviously. Good motivation for me to keep off the computer until tomorrow.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:42 AM on September 11, 2004
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:42 AM on September 11, 2004
rdone's link has to be the best analysis of the war on terror that I've read so far.
is anyone else boycotting television today?
posted by mcsweetie at 8:47 AM on September 11, 2004
is anyone else boycotting television today?
posted by mcsweetie at 8:47 AM on September 11, 2004
I'm watching Kirby: Right Back At Ya! on Fox. So far, no 9/11 tributes.
posted by punishinglemur at 8:59 AM on September 11, 2004
posted by punishinglemur at 8:59 AM on September 11, 2004
Can we judge the links on their merits, please?
posted by Space Coyote at 9:11 AM on September 11, 2004
posted by Space Coyote at 9:11 AM on September 11, 2004
I'd rather see a hundred links today to issues, rememberances, and whatever else you can't find anywhere else. It's 9/11 today and we can't ignore that and while I am avoiding TV today, I think there's a lot of value in looking at things from a zillion different angles online.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:48 AM on September 11, 2004
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:48 AM on September 11, 2004
I hope we will extend the same courtesy on the anniversaries of other countries' national tragedies.
posted by reklaw at 10:19 AM on September 11, 2004
posted by reklaw at 10:19 AM on September 11, 2004
Boycotting television on a Saturday during college football season?? You jest! *going to the Arkansas/Texas game tonight*
WOOOOOOOO PIG SOOOOOOIEEEEEE!
posted by bargle at 10:51 AM on September 11, 2004
WOOOOOOOO PIG SOOOOOOIEEEEEE!
posted by bargle at 10:51 AM on September 11, 2004
reklaw, this site is hosted in america. created in america. the owner is american. i'd wager most of the readers/posters are american. there's a bias. deal.
you can always start ukfilter or eurofilter if bothers you.
posted by keswick at 11:04 AM on September 11, 2004
you can always start ukfilter or eurofilter if bothers you.
posted by keswick at 11:04 AM on September 11, 2004
December 7th, huh.
I wonder if any MeFites are old enough to actually remember the attack on Pearl Harbor?
posted by caddis at 11:14 AM on September 11, 2004
I wonder if any MeFites are old enough to actually remember the attack on Pearl Harbor?
posted by caddis at 11:14 AM on September 11, 2004
is anyone else boycotting television today?
Is this something I would need a TV to do?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:22 AM on September 11, 2004
Is this something I would need a TV to do?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:22 AM on September 11, 2004
I hope we will extend the same courtesy on the anniversaries of other countries' national tragedies.
I belive anyone from any country is free to commemorate national tragedies whenever they please if the link is approved by mathowie. No one's being censored here. You want to post a link about the Chilean coup in 1973? Have at it. As Keswick said, there's going to be some understandable bias today on a website created here in the US, hosted here in the US, and populated by mostly Americans (and plenty of New Yorkers).
posted by dhoyt at 11:42 AM on September 11, 2004
I belive anyone from any country is free to commemorate national tragedies whenever they please if the link is approved by mathowie. No one's being censored here. You want to post a link about the Chilean coup in 1973? Have at it. As Keswick said, there's going to be some understandable bias today on a website created here in the US, hosted here in the US, and populated by mostly Americans (and plenty of New Yorkers).
posted by dhoyt at 11:42 AM on September 11, 2004
Maybe it's the fact that all the TVs in the office are tuned to the sports channels but until I came to MeFi I'd almost completely forgotten what day it was. That's not meant to sound insensitive or anything but I think 3 years is enough time that most people have forgotten.
/me runs off to perform quick straw poll of office.
Okay - out of 40-odd people in tonight only 2 of us knew what date it was - let alone that it is the anniversary of the attack. This probably illustrates something far too intellectual for me at this point in the day. Perhaps something about the rest of the world moving on or about how plainly ignorant most people are (me included).
posted by longbaugh at 11:43 AM on September 11, 2004
/me runs off to perform quick straw poll of office.
Okay - out of 40-odd people in tonight only 2 of us knew what date it was - let alone that it is the anniversary of the attack. This probably illustrates something far too intellectual for me at this point in the day. Perhaps something about the rest of the world moving on or about how plainly ignorant most people are (me included).
posted by longbaugh at 11:43 AM on September 11, 2004
reklaw, what do you mean by the phrase "other countries'"?
You mean like Utah?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:45 AM on September 11, 2004
You mean like Utah?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:45 AM on September 11, 2004
reklaw, I hardly think this is an "American" tragedy:
British 67
Japanese 23
Colombian 17
Jamaican 16
Italian 4
Mexican 15
The list goes on and citizens of thirty-six nations are represented in the death toll.
Source.
posted by cedar at 1:12 PM on September 11, 2004
British 67
Japanese 23
Colombian 17
Jamaican 16
Italian 4
Mexican 15
The list goes on and citizens of thirty-six nations are represented in the death toll.
Source.
posted by cedar at 1:12 PM on September 11, 2004
The Other 9/11: The United States and Chile, 1973
(from the famously communistic Foreign Affairs magazine)
11 September, 1973 - The Day Democracy Died in Chile
Remembering September 11 1973
Were the lives of those killed at the World Trade Centre more valuable than the innocents murdered in Chile's US-backed coup?
Chile and the United States:
Declassified Documents Relating to the Military Coup, September 11, 1973
posted by matteo at 1:14 PM on September 11, 2004
(from the famously communistic Foreign Affairs magazine)
11 September, 1973 - The Day Democracy Died in Chile
Remembering September 11 1973
Were the lives of those killed at the World Trade Centre more valuable than the innocents murdered in Chile's US-backed coup?
Chile and the United States:
Declassified Documents Relating to the Military Coup, September 11, 1973
posted by matteo at 1:14 PM on September 11, 2004
It's 9/11 today and we can't ignore that
Maybe not, but I'm going to give it a try anyway.
posted by Mars Saxman at 2:11 PM on September 11, 2004
Maybe not, but I'm going to give it a try anyway.
posted by Mars Saxman at 2:11 PM on September 11, 2004
Would people feel slighted if a 9/11/1973 Pinochet coup d'etat memorial link was posted? That was a pretty horrible tragedy as well.
posted by sic at 2:58 PM on September 11, 2004
posted by sic at 2:58 PM on September 11, 2004
Oops, I missed Matteo's post. Bien hecho, amigo. Post it on the front page?
posted by sic at 3:00 PM on September 11, 2004
posted by sic at 3:00 PM on September 11, 2004
One handy thing about today, it sure lets you know who the douchebags are on MeFi. Can we get an ignorelist yet, Matt?
posted by keswick at 3:47 PM on September 11, 2004
posted by keswick at 3:47 PM on September 11, 2004
sic, it was posted on the front page last year and the year before, and rightly or wrongly didn't get many comments . It was indeed horrible, but does it need a front-page post every year?
posted by languagehat at 4:08 PM on September 11, 2004
posted by languagehat at 4:08 PM on September 11, 2004
only if somebody eventually manages to design a "Chile 1973" Flash site, languagehat.
posted by matteo at 4:21 PM on September 11, 2004
posted by matteo at 4:21 PM on September 11, 2004
You mean like Utah?
Who are trying to offend or --gays or women Utahns or foreigners?
Fine, then.
/turns away, kicks floor, mopes
posted by weston at 6:18 PM on September 11, 2004
Who are trying to offend or --
Fine, then.
/turns away, kicks floor, mopes
posted by weston at 6:18 PM on September 11, 2004
I suggest that this year, unlike previous tradition, we only have one post comemmorating September 19th.
posted by soyjoy at 10:50 PM on September 11, 2004
posted by soyjoy at 10:50 PM on September 11, 2004
Whoever claimed that MeFi was USA-centric site was right. And now we see mathowie encouraging page upon page upon page of US-national self-indulgence, whilst claiming no other country in the world is worthy of any space (yeah, it was probably a joke, but one in as much bad taste as anyone making fun of the US dead).
If only you lot could get the rest of the world to block this site, you could have your pity-fest to yourselves, without any interference.
I've had enough. You can have the site to yourselves. From time to time, one or the other of you will complain that the site is too USA-centric. Well, you have nothing to complain about: it's the way its creator likes it.
posted by dayvin at 9:56 AM on September 12, 2004
If only you lot could get the rest of the world to block this site, you could have your pity-fest to yourselves, without any interference.
I've had enough. You can have the site to yourselves. From time to time, one or the other of you will complain that the site is too USA-centric. Well, you have nothing to complain about: it's the way its creator likes it.
posted by dayvin at 9:56 AM on September 12, 2004
and rightly or wrongly didn't get many comments
Since when was that a sin?? :)
posted by plep at 1:25 PM on September 12, 2004
Since when was that a sin?? :)
posted by plep at 1:25 PM on September 12, 2004
(and it needs an fpp no more or less than any other anniversary).
posted by plep at 1:27 PM on September 12, 2004
posted by plep at 1:27 PM on September 12, 2004
Whenever I say "Once de Septiembre" nowadays, I have to say "you know, ours" or "you know, the gringo one", now. Which is annoying.
posted by signal at 3:43 PM on September 12, 2004
posted by signal at 3:43 PM on September 12, 2004
Plep, I'm not saying it's a sin; obviously, there are a lot of great posts that don't get many comments. But it seems to me the only excuse for posting the same thing year after year would be if lots of people still wanted to talk about it. That is clearly not the case with the Pinochet coup. I personally don't think we need anniversary posts at all, but clearly mathowie feels strongly about the WTC posts, and that's his right. I don't think we are thereby entitled and encouraged to post every year on every conceivable anniversary. But that's just one man's opinion.
(Don't think that I am in any way trying to diminish the importance of the coup. I was in Argentina at the time, I had Chilean friends, I can still remember the horror of it. I just don't think it's a good MeFi post. I think you'll agree that, say, the Bolshevik coup/"revolution" of 1917 was even more important in world-historical terms, but I don't think we have annual posts about that.)
posted by languagehat at 5:38 PM on September 12, 2004
(Don't think that I am in any way trying to diminish the importance of the coup. I was in Argentina at the time, I had Chilean friends, I can still remember the horror of it. I just don't think it's a good MeFi post. I think you'll agree that, say, the Bolshevik coup/"revolution" of 1917 was even more important in world-historical terms, but I don't think we have annual posts about that.)
posted by languagehat at 5:38 PM on September 12, 2004
Re : Chile.
Didn't the 2002 and 2003 posts include different links with somewhat different perspectives though (as someone who made one of the posts, I vaguely recall checking before posting)? So how is it different from the anniversary 9-11 posts, which come from different perspectives?
That people don't want to talk about it ... well, a minority taste surely isn't a problem is it? We're talking about two posts in two years; it's not like it's dominating the front page compared to posts on other issues. And anyway, different perspectives are good, right?
(Unless we're going to go for majoritarianism in front page posting, which would be horrible, frankly. I also don't see why a post on the anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution would be a problem, if it's interesting enough; we get posts about all kinds of aspects of cultural history - the 'Without Sanctuary' post on lynching in America appears now and then, which is a good thing, and never raises an eyebrow).
Miguel did have a point in that posts related to America do attract more comments than comparable posts about other parts of the world. This is natural given that most of the people here are Americans. This is fine (because people comment on issues which are of interest to them, this has little to do with 'this is good'), but please don't deny or decry posts related to the rest of the world either.
(I do get a sense of that from certain quarters sometimes).
And anyway, I didn't see a Chile-related fpp this year. So what's the problem?
posted by plep at 1:14 AM on September 13, 2004
Didn't the 2002 and 2003 posts include different links with somewhat different perspectives though (as someone who made one of the posts, I vaguely recall checking before posting)? So how is it different from the anniversary 9-11 posts, which come from different perspectives?
That people don't want to talk about it ... well, a minority taste surely isn't a problem is it? We're talking about two posts in two years; it's not like it's dominating the front page compared to posts on other issues. And anyway, different perspectives are good, right?
(Unless we're going to go for majoritarianism in front page posting, which would be horrible, frankly. I also don't see why a post on the anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution would be a problem, if it's interesting enough; we get posts about all kinds of aspects of cultural history - the 'Without Sanctuary' post on lynching in America appears now and then, which is a good thing, and never raises an eyebrow).
Miguel did have a point in that posts related to America do attract more comments than comparable posts about other parts of the world. This is natural given that most of the people here are Americans. This is fine (because people comment on issues which are of interest to them, this has little to do with 'this is good'), but please don't deny or decry posts related to the rest of the world either.
(I do get a sense of that from certain quarters sometimes).
And anyway, I didn't see a Chile-related fpp this year. So what's the problem?
posted by plep at 1:14 AM on September 13, 2004
First-hand accounts of the coup in Chile.
Historical hindsight.
They may be on the same subject, but the links themselves are entirely different. In fact, the 2003 link was new (and included eyewitness accounts). So no, the 'same thing' wasn't re-posted in 2003 and 2002.
Posting different links on the same topic - one year apart - is not the same as re-posting, and is no different, for example, from posts on Iraq from different perspectives with different links.
posted by plep at 1:20 AM on September 13, 2004
Historical hindsight.
They may be on the same subject, but the links themselves are entirely different. In fact, the 2003 link was new (and included eyewitness accounts). So no, the 'same thing' wasn't re-posted in 2003 and 2002.
Posting different links on the same topic - one year apart - is not the same as re-posting, and is no different, for example, from posts on Iraq from different perspectives with different links.
posted by plep at 1:20 AM on September 13, 2004
".....I will Nevar Forget" - Shouldn't that be "Nevah" ?
Just asking.
Also - Steve_at_Linnwood and I, we both lack a TV and have remodelled our own bathrooms.
Go figure.
posted by troutfishing at 6:31 AM on September 13, 2004
Just asking.
Also - Steve_at_Linnwood and I, we both lack a TV and have remodelled our own bathrooms.
Go figure.
posted by troutfishing at 6:31 AM on September 13, 2004
"We will nevah forget!
We will nevah forget. We will fight them in the laundromats and the kindegartens, in the boardrooms and on the plains, in the bedroom and on the gridiron, from the alpine meadows to the toxic waste Superfund sites and from Key Largo to Baked Alaska.
We will nevah cease fighting until this fear and tewah is vanquished. We will fight tewah with fear, fear and greed. And with our incomparable munitions. We will chase this tewah down the city streets of the world, our 30mm A-10 "Warthog" Gatling guns blazingly spitting out depleted Uranium shells to vanquish our enemies and this, this we must nevah, nevah forget :
There are no noncombatants. All are either with us or against us. This, we must must nevah, nevah forget - that this is total war, the struggle between Good and Evil, the battle to vanquish darkness from our good Earth. And, in such a war, there will be mistakes. Let us be very clear on that. There will be mistakes, and we will deeply regret each and every one, every life lost on our path to glory and triumph. But we must nevah, nevah forget the ultimate goal, and we must nevah, nevah weaken and so slide into moral equivalency that is the slippery slope to Hell.
We must nevah, nevah forget, and we must always, ever keep our eyes on the prize and the gunsights of our hearts, pure and resolute, trained on the final victory which will be the complete and final destruction of all tewah.
We will nevah forget, and we will prevail !"
posted by troutfishing at 6:53 AM on September 13, 2004
We will nevah forget. We will fight them in the laundromats and the kindegartens, in the boardrooms and on the plains, in the bedroom and on the gridiron, from the alpine meadows to the toxic waste Superfund sites and from Key Largo to Baked Alaska.
We will nevah cease fighting until this fear and tewah is vanquished. We will fight tewah with fear, fear and greed. And with our incomparable munitions. We will chase this tewah down the city streets of the world, our 30mm A-10 "Warthog" Gatling guns blazingly spitting out depleted Uranium shells to vanquish our enemies and this, this we must nevah, nevah forget :
There are no noncombatants. All are either with us or against us. This, we must must nevah, nevah forget - that this is total war, the struggle between Good and Evil, the battle to vanquish darkness from our good Earth. And, in such a war, there will be mistakes. Let us be very clear on that. There will be mistakes, and we will deeply regret each and every one, every life lost on our path to glory and triumph. But we must nevah, nevah forget the ultimate goal, and we must nevah, nevah weaken and so slide into moral equivalency that is the slippery slope to Hell.
We must nevah, nevah forget, and we must always, ever keep our eyes on the prize and the gunsights of our hearts, pure and resolute, trained on the final victory which will be the complete and final destruction of all tewah.
We will nevah forget, and we will prevail !"
posted by troutfishing at 6:53 AM on September 13, 2004
Plep: Agreed, and I'm not decrying those posts in particular. I was just a little alarmed at the suggestion that we needed another Chile post simply because it was the anniversary. I think the subject is important, and if someone finds a good link on any old day of the year, they should post it, just as they would any other link, and I specifically welcome non-US-oriented links. I just have this vision of anniversary posts growing like kudzu over MetaFilter, with people googling up every conceivable anniversary every day of the year, because that will have become What We Do Here at MeFi. The odds of getting a good post are much higher if you're looking for good posts in general than if you're rushing to find something, anything, to post today, because this is the anniversary.
Also, I'm thoroughly sick of Talk Like a Pirate Day already. How many changes can you ring on "Arr!"? Just thought I'd throw that in.
posted by languagehat at 9:33 AM on September 13, 2004
Also, I'm thoroughly sick of Talk Like a Pirate Day already. How many changes can you ring on "Arr!"? Just thought I'd throw that in.
posted by languagehat at 9:33 AM on September 13, 2004
Hey dayvin... go fuck yourself in whatever country you happen to live. In America, "go fuck yourself" means go fuck yourself... in case something was lost in the translation. Your whining about the American-centric bias of this website is ridicuous and insulting. So right back 'atcha. Even further, you whine about it on a day that's probably just about as important as any day in American history (debatable I'm sure). You're a dick. This isn't your website any moreso than it's anyone else's(?). If you don't like the fact that most of us are American, why the fuck are you here? It's no secret. I really don't understand what you're bitching about, nor do I feel the slightest bit sorry for you.
If only you lot could get the rest of the world to block this site, you could have your pity-fest to yourselves, without any interference.
Better watch what you wish for.
Guess what? It's called the World Wide Web. No one is excluded. Show me how you're being left out.
I can't wait to log in to some Russian websites in 2007 and whine to them about how Russian they are... and how after three years they STILL can't get over 150 of their school children being executed by terrorists. If I see one damn Ruskie laying a wreath on a grave or shedding a tear on the anniversary of that day, I'm going to hurl. I mean c'mon already.
I see that you live "somewhere else", according to your user page. How clever. Well maybe chaos, terrorism and mayhem are all part of your everyday life "somewhere else". Maybe you're used to it and think it's not that big of a deal. Maybe you expect it to a certain degree. Maybe you know some people who have fallen victim to terrorist acts on innocents. It's a damn shame if that's the case. But in America, we aren't used to it... and don't want to be either. We work pretty hard, we fight pretty hard. We argue, debate, bicker, protest, show support and vote pretty hard to make sure that we aren't forced to get used to it. We make community and personal sacifices (sometimes kicking and screaming) to help make sure that we don't have to get used to it. I expect this to go on for a good while longer too. I'd rather we go through all this pain and struggle in an effort to PREVENT further attacks and NOT get used to it, then have to get used to the pain and fear and death of another September 11th, 2001.
So maybe "somehwere else" is better that the U.S. Maybe you live in Atlantis, good for you. But maybe you live in Israel and deal with this shit all the time... good for you. Just don't come to an American website and complain to Americans about how we SHOULD or SHOULDN'T memorialize our dead. Piss off, dayvin.
posted by Witty at 11:25 AM on September 13, 2004
If only you lot could get the rest of the world to block this site, you could have your pity-fest to yourselves, without any interference.
Better watch what you wish for.
Guess what? It's called the World Wide Web. No one is excluded. Show me how you're being left out.
I can't wait to log in to some Russian websites in 2007 and whine to them about how Russian they are... and how after three years they STILL can't get over 150 of their school children being executed by terrorists. If I see one damn Ruskie laying a wreath on a grave or shedding a tear on the anniversary of that day, I'm going to hurl. I mean c'mon already.
I see that you live "somewhere else", according to your user page. How clever. Well maybe chaos, terrorism and mayhem are all part of your everyday life "somewhere else". Maybe you're used to it and think it's not that big of a deal. Maybe you expect it to a certain degree. Maybe you know some people who have fallen victim to terrorist acts on innocents. It's a damn shame if that's the case. But in America, we aren't used to it... and don't want to be either. We work pretty hard, we fight pretty hard. We argue, debate, bicker, protest, show support and vote pretty hard to make sure that we aren't forced to get used to it. We make community and personal sacifices (sometimes kicking and screaming) to help make sure that we don't have to get used to it. I expect this to go on for a good while longer too. I'd rather we go through all this pain and struggle in an effort to PREVENT further attacks and NOT get used to it, then have to get used to the pain and fear and death of another September 11th, 2001.
So maybe "somehwere else" is better that the U.S. Maybe you live in Atlantis, good for you. But maybe you live in Israel and deal with this shit all the time... good for you. Just don't come to an American website and complain to Americans about how we SHOULD or SHOULDN'T memorialize our dead. Piss off, dayvin.
posted by Witty at 11:25 AM on September 13, 2004
Witty, not to take the wind out of your sails, because I think you made a good point, but -- I think we could stand to vote a little harder than we currently do in the States.
posted by chicobangs at 12:27 PM on September 13, 2004
posted by chicobangs at 12:27 PM on September 13, 2004
Also, I'm thoroughly sick of Talk Like a Pirate Day already.
I think you meant "thARRRRRoughly sick," no?
posted by soyjoy at 1:19 PM on September 13, 2004
I think you meant "thARRRRRoughly sick," no?
posted by soyjoy at 1:19 PM on September 13, 2004
you whine about it on a day that's probably just about as important as any day in American history
And just what is the significance of September 12th?
posted by dayvin at 1:59 PM on September 13, 2004
Witty, maybe I live in one of the tens of coutries the US-of-fucking-A has inflicted 911s on in the past 60 years.
Oh really? What's the big secret dayvin? Let's have it. What country are we talking about here?
I'm betting that the reason you chose "maybe I live" is because you don't REALLY live in one those desperate countries. In fact, I'm going to have a hard time believing you at this point, when you finally have the balls to us where you live. You must be doing pretty well in your third-world hell to have daily internet access. I will be interested in dissecting your country's long and glorious history. I'm still putting my money on Atlantis.
And just what is the significance of September 12th?
Are we going to play semantics dickhead? The thread and debate in question is centered around September 11th, and you know it. So either say something worth listening to (reading) or continue to piss off.
posted by Witty at 5:40 PM on September 13, 2004
Oh really? What's the big secret dayvin? Let's have it. What country are we talking about here?
I'm betting that the reason you chose "maybe I live" is because you don't REALLY live in one those desperate countries. In fact, I'm going to have a hard time believing you at this point, when you finally have the balls to us where you live. You must be doing pretty well in your third-world hell to have daily internet access. I will be interested in dissecting your country's long and glorious history. I'm still putting my money on Atlantis.
And just what is the significance of September 12th?
Are we going to play semantics dickhead? The thread and debate in question is centered around September 11th, and you know it. So either say something worth listening to (reading) or continue to piss off.
posted by Witty at 5:40 PM on September 13, 2004
Semantic Dickhead - Isn't that a thrash band from Texas ?
posted by troutfishing at 8:35 AM on September 14, 2004
posted by troutfishing at 8:35 AM on September 14, 2004
Not sure. But I'm trying to start a band called Condiment Fridge. Can you play bass?
posted by Witty at 4:57 PM on September 14, 2004
posted by Witty at 4:57 PM on September 14, 2004
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
I'd welcome more 9/11 posts from others as well.
posted by mathowie at 3:30 AM EST on September 11
that was posted in Asparagirl's thread.
posted by Stynxno at 8:35 AM on September 11, 2004