NewsFilter posts could be shorter

September 13, 2004 11:59 AM

In an effort to reach a compromise between people who like newsfilter posts and people who simply can't abide by them, do you think we can attempt to economize the length of FPPs such as this one?
posted by sic to Etiquette/Policy at 11:59 AM (43 comments total)

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad this was posted to Metafilter. I like these kinds of posts, because I think they are important. But this post really needed a [more inside] tag.
posted by sic at 12:01 PM on September 13, 2004

I'm glad to have seen it, too (wait... "glad"? No, that's not right...) but I agree with sic, anything more than a single paragraph is too much. Could be worse though, could be one of y2karl's multi-fontsize TITLE attribute abuse extravaganzas...
posted by JollyWanker at 12:05 PM on September 13, 2004

I saw this one coming a mile away.
posted by troutfishing at 12:08 PM on September 13, 2004

I think the length's fine. If it hadn't been that long, I wouldn't have read it.
posted by SpecialK at 12:23 PM on September 13, 2004

The worst of it is, that the FPP was a clumsy and graceless precis of the story. Here's an example of how it could have been done:

A reporter for Al-Araybia is killed on camera by U.S. fire. The tape is being seen around the world.

That's all you need. We'll take it from there.
posted by Faze at 12:24 PM on September 13, 2004

I have no problems with this FPP. Multiple links, single paragraph. I have issues with a beginning link, followed up with an epic rant.
posted by Busithoth at 12:28 PM on September 13, 2004

I concur with SpecialK; and as NewsFilter goes, I can live with this one.
posted by sciurus at 12:44 PM on September 13, 2004

I'm with Faze on this one. The FPP should be succinct, IMHO, and in this case, his example sentences cover it. Use [more inside] if you really think it's necessary.
posted by pmurray63 at 12:49 PM on September 13, 2004

How about exactly 42 words per post? 43? Come on...

Some of the "policy" discussions here confuse the hell of out me... How many people read Metatalk, never mind post to it, besides the hundred or so hard-core users that hang out here? What good does it do to have some policy if only a handful of people know or care about it? How can it be enforced?

This reminds me of the "It's September 11th - Don't post anything about September 11th" Metatalk thread from the other day (which was another strange request). It just seems to me like rhetoric for rhetoric's sake to me.
posted by SweetJesus at 12:53 PM on September 13, 2004

I dunno
_____________________________

[I think that with a little special formatting, it could've been done better.]
posted by angry modem at 12:58 PM on September 13, 2004

a bunch of picky, self-important, whining assholes. the lot of you.
posted by quonsar at 1:07 PM on September 13, 2004

I usually hate long posts. But I liked this one. I read it and found myself fascinated (horrified?) by the subject material. The paragraph breaks annoyed me, however. It seemed to take up more space (not words, space) than it needed to. But that's a relatively minor detail.
posted by Happydaz at 1:10 PM on September 13, 2004

It was a little long. Faze's suggestion would certainly have been better. Even omitting just the last paragraph would have made a big difference, especially since that's where the poster starts editorializing and turns out to be embarrassinglly wrong.
posted by soyjoy at 1:12 PM on September 13, 2004

I have issues with a beginning link, followed up with an epic rant.

I agree completely. But it seems as though that's the current trend. NewsFilter wouldn't bother me near as much if people could go back to sticking their opinions, judgements, interpretations and feelings INSIDE the thread as a comment, rather than on the front page. It's annoying.

This comment is also annoying. His little jab at ParisParamus was completely uncalled for... the man hadn't even participated in the thread, and may not have had nofundy kept his bullshit to himself. quonsar gets an honorable mention. It's no wonder those kinds of threads deteriorate so quickly.

a bunch of picky, self-important, whining assholes. the lot of you.

And you're the biggest prick of them all. I used to think you were funny. Now... well, just a prick - a tired and lonely prick.
posted by Witty at 1:15 PM on September 13, 2004

Had it not been all on the front page, I wouldn't have paid attention. So I'm OK with it, even in its less economical form. (Not everyone is gifted with brevity, Faze.)

My advice? Lower your font size pref. It fit fine on my screen.
posted by me3dia at 1:16 PM on September 13, 2004

a bunch of picky, self-important, whining assholes. the lot of you.

And you're the biggest prick of them all. I used to think you were funny. Now... well, just a prick - a tired and lonely prick

For some reason, I find myself agreeing with the majority of Quonsar says on the Grey. That post was great, and the best thing we get out of it on MetaTalk is < 10 people complaining that it took up too much space on the front page, which is a hell of a contribution when you think about it...
posted by SweetJesus at 1:36 PM on September 13, 2004

I don't like the way this event was posted, politics aside: 5 links from the same non-news site, when this is international news we are speaking of? This isn't a specialized fetish or unique, localized happening, it's international-fucking-news. Insomnia_lj's linking from one site, considering the scope of the event, is just plain lazy. Lazy, lazy, lazy.

5 minutes after his fpp, mefi users commented that the story was found within the following sources (video footage included): ABC, Google News, La Times, BBC, CBS, AP, Arab News, Herald Sun, Times of Oman, NY Times, SF Gate, etc... So insomnia_lj, how can you substantiate that you didn't find mention of the story elsewhere online? Your agenda at linking to ogrish was not to give us the “best pictures”. You clearly omitted the facts and any pretense of intellectual debate...and only gave us the gore.
posted by naxosaxur at 1:50 PM on September 13, 2004

He was trying to be first... silly.
posted by Witty at 1:57 PM on September 13, 2004

Witty, yes, I was aware of that. I thought it was obvious his motivation to be "the first"...given the sloppy, myopic, run-on sentence of a fpp. But it would have taken like 2 minutes of additional google-time to add a few intellectual links, no?
posted by naxosaxur at 2:03 PM on September 13, 2004

Christ, some people can bitch about anything.
posted by mookieproof at 2:03 PM on September 13, 2004

...way to bitch about bitching couched in bitchyness...bitch.
posted by naxosaxur at 2:13 PM on September 13, 2004

If he was trying to be first, would he really have spent such a long time composing a 500 word essay with 20 links?
posted by ZippityBuddha at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2004

And you're the biggest prick of them all. I used to think you were funny. Now... well, just a prick - a tired and lonely prick

at least i've never made the mistake of thinking you were funny.
posted by quonsar at 2:30 PM on September 13, 2004

A long FPP makes it clear that posting the story is more about the poster's ego than the story itself.
posted by ParisParamus at 3:03 PM on September 13, 2004

That post was great, and the best thing we get out of it on MetaTalk is less than 10 people complaining that it took up too much space on the front page, which is a hell of a contribution when you think about it...

Well I thought the formatting sucked, so make that (< 10) + 1. however, i had originally assumed that crafting a post linking to images from ogrish when there were much better and more informative links available merited attention in the grey. naxsaxur is right, this thread needs to be discussed here.br>

If we want to spin it into a positive we can. I thought it was quite remarkable how little trolling was going on, and the additional links coming in from other commenters were excellent - this metatalk thread could have easily been one of those pat-on-the-back kinds of threads where everyone congratulated everyone else for staying on topic.
posted by cohappy at 3:11 PM on September 13, 2004

Hey if people don't like it, they can just scroll past it

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p.s. witty. don't be a cunt.
posted by seanyboy at 3:38 PM on September 13, 2004

Well the reason I took it to metatalk is that Seanyboy started a remarkably well-mannered thread about the whole "newsfilter" debate a few days ago (until Scarabic had a hissyfit at the very end). We didn't really resolve anything, but it convinced me that when people are considerate it allows everyone to express themselves in more interesting ways. You know, better than namecalling and trolling. I'm totally pro-political and news posts (if done well) for my own reasons, but I also recognize that this is a community and if many people don't like those posts we who like those posts can at least try and compromise by writing up shorter FPPs, and saving everything else for the thread. That's all.
posted by sic at 3:51 PM on September 13, 2004

/ seanyboy hangs his head in shame.

I think the shorter FPP thing is a fantastic compromise, and my hat has been taken off to sic.
Sorry.
posted by seanyboy at 3:57 PM on September 13, 2004

Christ, some people can bitch about anything.

You misunderstand the stated purpose of Metatalk. Ten yard penalty.

Hey if people don't like it, they can just scroll past it

You misunderstand the stated purpose of Metatalk. Ten yard penalty.

a bunch of picky, self-important, whining assholes. the lot of you.

You understand the Spirit of Metafilter. Line on the left, one cross each.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:26 PM on September 13, 2004

Jumpin' Jesus, what is wrong with you people?

Do you have to bitch and complain about every little thing that you don't you like? Now your going to argue about the number of words? Fuck, if it was a [more inside] some wanker would have complained the front page post didn't have enough detail and he lost a precious five seconds and sprained his wittle wrist clicking on the link.

What a bunch of babies. For one fucking second think about how stupid these arguements are -- a post about people dieing results in a thread about how the post about people dieing was formed. Get the hell out of the basement and take a fresh look at the big room.
posted by cedar at 4:49 PM on September 13, 2004

Well, seanyboy, looks like the polite and reasoned discussion, the search for compromise dies with your thread. At least we were there to see lightning in a bottle. We now return to our daily scheduled "who can be a bigger jerk" screaming match.

Cheers and hasta la próxima.
posted by sic at 4:57 PM on September 13, 2004

For some reason, I find myself agreeing with the majority of Quonsar says on the Grey.

He says the exact same thing every time, so that's not surprising.
posted by The God Complex at 5:29 PM on September 13, 2004

What a bunch of babies. For one fucking second think about how stupid these arguements are -- a post about people dieing results in a thread about how the post about people dieing was formed. Get the hell out of the basement and take a fresh look at the big room.

But if he really cared about that dying journalist, he'd have shown more respect by crafting a more aesthetically pleasing fpp.

Or, just read stavrosthewonderchicken's comments on the issue.

Just sayin'
posted by cohappy at 5:38 PM on September 13, 2004

It wasn't that I was trying to be first. If the post was long, it was because I was trying to tell a full, emotional story as best as I could within the limitations. I wish I had known about the video, as it would have told most of my story for me, but I didn't. I did, however, know about the pictures, and I think the pictures are absolutely vital to the telling of the story.

It's important to me that this not be the story of just another case of "collateral damage". These people have names and lives, and if I was long, it was because that is what I wanted to convey.

I could have just as easily said "More people died in Iraq today. Here are the pictures..." and just as easily been criticized.

It was a bit sloppy perhaps, and I didn't have the video, but, by and large, it succeeded. It got people emotionally involved, and they helped fill in the obvious gaps... which is really one of the most amazing things about MetaFilter, when you think of it.
posted by insomnia_lj at 5:56 PM on September 13, 2004

It was a good write-up. Long write-ups don't bother me as long as they're good. On the other hand, y2karl's FPPs put me to sleep faster than a Nyquil and Ambien milkshake.
posted by keswick at 7:31 PM on September 13, 2004

cohappy: "...he'd have shown more respect by crafting a more aesthetically pleasing fpp."

Thank you for making my point.

I suggest that in the future we all strive to make pointless deaths of people more "aesthetically pleasing." Because, after all is said and done, it's the aesthetics that really matter.
posted by cedar at 7:40 PM on September 13, 2004

cedar: Pull your Jumpin' Jesus down off the ceiling - nothing's wrong with trying to strike a compromise between two opposing viewpoints. Further, what stavros said.
posted by scarabic at 8:10 PM on September 13, 2004

And even further than that, I'm prrrrrretty sure that "aesthetically pleasing" line was in jest. Yeah, I know, I know, how can you jest about an argument about a post about people dieing. It never ends.
posted by soyjoy at 8:31 PM on September 13, 2004

Yeah, whatever.

I guess my irony meter is all busticated.
posted by cedar at 9:56 PM on September 13, 2004

I think it bears repeating: I didn't create this thread to criticize Ignatius_lJ's post. Personally, I liked it and if I were just thinking about myself I wouldn't change a thing, in fact, I would encourage more of the same. The main reason I come to Metafilter is to read posts like his (and Troutfishing's and even Y2Karl's lengthy ones, among others). However, since this is a community it's not right to only think of what I like, none of us should do this. So as a compromise between what I want and expect from Metafilter and what many other members who can't stand those kinds of posts want and expect, I've suggested here and in this thread that maybe we can try to reduce the length of "newsfilter" posts. Given that the majority of the "anti" crowd has stopped posting their displeasure in the threads that they don't like, it seems like a good idea for the "pro" side to reciprocate in good faith. The posts and the threads can still be kickass, I'm sure, it's just that new techniques have to be developed.

I just want to add that I'm not a poster, I'm a lurker and an occasional thread contributer so I don't mean to criticize the work of others, I just wanted to make a suggestion.
posted by sic at 2:54 AM on September 14, 2004

I didn't create this thread to criticize Ignatius_lJ's post.

It's a good thing, too, since the post was by insomnia_lj. ☺
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:45 AM on September 14, 2004

I liked it. It was like a little story with pictures. And that was nice. Most enjoyably constructed post of the week.

My only criticism is that the links are all at the start. I think they should have been spread out more evenly.
posted by Blue Stone at 1:00 PM on September 14, 2004

It's a good thing, too, since the post was by insomnia_lj. ?

ha! Sorry Insomnia_lj and sorry Ignatius....!
posted by sic at 4:55 PM on September 14, 2004