This was my first front page post - how did I do?

December 9, 2004 7:09 AM

How'd I do? This was my first FPP - too politicky, too religiousy, good stuff, bad stuff, indifferent? I like a good ego stroke as much as anyone, but I really want to know if I helped make MeFi a better place.
posted by jimray to MetaFilter-related at 7:09 AM (67 comments total)

It wasn't deleted, so you passed the test. Congratulations.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:16 AM on December 9, 2004 [1 favorite has favorites]

You were doing okay until you posted here. That was really dorky.
posted by pomegranate at 7:17 AM on December 9, 2004

Lots of stuff doesn't get deleted. I'm not sure that's the test.
posted by agregoli at 7:20 AM on December 9, 2004

Why is this in MeTa?
posted by caddis at 7:20 AM on December 9, 2004

It was an interesting angle. I think you're barking up the wrong tree with it - because by and large mainstream Christian fundamentalism does not actively advocate destruction of the environment - but it was an interesting angle.

Some people around here are going to tell you that your post sucked because of politics/religion. They are idiots. Politics and religion are inseperable from discussion of nearly any major aspect of modern life. It was frankly one of the better first posts by the newcomers that we've had.

That said, I really don't think that, in your shoes, I would've followed up a fairly-interesting first post with a MeTa thread asking for people to suck you off or flame you - that's bad form, in my book.
posted by Ryvar at 7:21 AM on December 9, 2004

Minor addendum: If you really do find that you desperately want SOME kind of feedback on your post, you could contact one of the people (including me) who volunteered to mentor newcomers in jessamyn's thread here, or you could hit up IRC.
posted by Ryvar at 7:26 AM on December 9, 2004

How'd I do? Your first MetaTalk post is so outrageously bad it obliterates any good you might have done with the blue post. And then some.
posted by soyjoy at 7:28 AM on December 9, 2004

Ah! So you're the me it's all about...
posted by i_cola at 7:29 AM on December 9, 2004

I generally don't like Religious/Political posts, but I thought that this was a good one. It brought up a fairly interesting (if a bit suspect) theory that I otherwise would not have read about. The comments went a little wild, but that'll happen with this kind of post, and there's nothing you can really do about it. So I thought you did pretty well. Welcome to mefi!
posted by unreason at 7:32 AM on December 9, 2004

If you're wondering how you could do a better metatalk post, maybe you should pose a question in Askme. I mean, why the hell not?

sigh
posted by glenwood at 7:32 AM on December 9, 2004

*smokes cigarette*

Well, how was it for you?
posted by adampsyche at 7:35 AM on December 9, 2004

Fuck... Dimebag Darrell done got shot - on stage even. That's hardcore. That's Fucking Hostile... and sad.
posted by Witty at 7:37 AM on December 9, 2004

rad. and point tooken.
posted by jimray at 7:42 AM on December 9, 2004

It was shit. Preach elsewhere.
posted by Seth at 7:42 AM on December 9, 2004

And by the way, don't take it personally. Half the posts on the blue the last two days or so have been shit. Apparently the honeymoon is over, and all the newbies feel it necessary to preach about their pet issues. For the first several weeks, most of the posts by new people were great, and I enjoyed them. Now, its seems to evolved into the morass of axe-grinding.

Having a lot of new members has brought a lot of new posts. While a sizeable number of posts by new people have been good, the rest just crap. So we doubled the posts and doubled the crap.
posted by Seth at 7:49 AM on December 9, 2004

It was fine. If you screw up, people will yell at you. Remember that sweet sweet silence before you posted this thread in MetaTalk? That was your time to pat yourself on the back. Hear the screaming now? This is when you know you've blown it.
posted by gleuschk at 7:49 AM on December 9, 2004

*pats jimray on the shoulder*

"I'm okay, you're okay."
posted by Shane at 7:51 AM on December 9, 2004

So we doubled the posts and doubled the crap.
Not such a bad ratio.
posted by caddis at 7:53 AM on December 9, 2004

"Half the posts on the blue the last two days or so have been shit."

Bingo. The front page has turned to ass over the last week and a half. Rather than the best new and interesting websites finds we're now completely about the pet issues of members.

The new user influx has pretty much killed it for me. I'll still hang around, but there isn't much I feel like participating in anymore. We used to be a community of folks eager to distill the good stuff. Now we're a community eager to discuss news and current events.

[this is bad]
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:57 AM on December 9, 2004

my cat's breath smells like my other cat's anus.
posted by jpoulos at 8:03 AM on December 9, 2004

jpoulos, that is because you let it lick your fingers.
posted by sebas at 8:09 AM on December 9, 2004

jimray, I don't visit politics threads so I can't comment on quality *that* way, but in terms of form, next time try to keep your post to one paragraph. There's a whole lot on the front page at any given time -- especially right now -- so brevity is an asset. If you've got more to say, just do it inside the thread, AskMe style. Particularly if the "more inside" is going to be an opinion.

And yes, asking for feedback in MeTa was poor form. You couldn't figure it out based on the comments in the thread?
posted by me3dia at 8:10 AM on December 9, 2004

Wow - I was really missing my favourite faecophiliac Seth but now he's back in full flow. When can we look forward to your next post Seth? I mean, one that isn't shit like the last one.

many thanks.

(btw - coming from anyone else the criticism might have been valid)
posted by longbaugh at 8:13 AM on December 9, 2004

y6y6y6:

"The new user influx has pretty much killed it for me. I'll still hang around, but there isn't much I feel like participating in anymore. We used to be a community of folks eager to distill the good stuff. Now we're a community eager to discuss news and current events."

Um, were you reading MetaFilter for the 18 months or so BEFORE the "new user influx"? Because I remember very little but "current events, news, and diatribe" filter.

Ah, the good old days, before the "others" showed up--the days that weren't all that different, and maybe not even good.
posted by availablelight at 8:24 AM on December 9, 2004

Seth complains a lot without posting any links to be sure, but you can not really criticize his one fpp. As q said about it, "that is the way an axe ought to be ground."
posted by caddis at 8:32 AM on December 9, 2004

Hey, if it pisses off y6y6y6 AND seth then maybe it ain't too bad. Well done n00bs...
posted by i_cola at 8:39 AM on December 9, 2004

It was fine--Moyers is always an interesting read, on interesting subjects.

y6: you've posted on things you didn't care about? I think that's rare if not impossible. What you call "the pet issues of members" are the things they're interested in. I can't believe that anyone here has ever posted about anything in which they had no interest. Why would anyone bother?
posted by amberglow at 8:43 AM on December 9, 2004

yay. old users are bitching about new users.

THE END TIMES ARE NEIGH.

if all the old whinny bastards leave metafilter because of the new guys, then I'm glad matt opened membership again.
posted by Stynxno at 8:45 AM on December 9, 2004

I kept shouting that the end of times were neigh but now I'm feeling a little horse.
posted by longbaugh at 8:50 AM on December 9, 2004

I prefer FPPs that are only one paragraph, because I tend to read each paragraph as a separate post, and they don't tend to make any sense when you do that so I never look at them again. Maybe that's just me though. Also, you're wasting precious space with your carriage return.
posted by smackfu at 8:50 AM on December 9, 2004

"if it pisses off y6y6y6 AND seth then maybe it ain't too bad"

Oddly, I agree with this in principle.

But I didn't mean to imply I was pissed off. I'm not. It's just much less common to find great links here every day. And much more common to scan a dozen links in a row and scowl at each of them. Much less, "wow, that's cool". Much more, "do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?".

We seem to be abandoning the filter, and embracing the discussion. Which IMHO is very bad. But I'm just one random a-hole. And as such, pissing me off is, and should be, great sport. Carry on.
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:50 AM on December 9, 2004

Now that you've been taken behind the woodshed, to answer your question, for myself I'd avoid main links from sources like truthout.org, although in this case it's simply a transcription of a speech, so that concern is somewhat mitigated.

If I were you, I might have included some language indicating a realization that the speaker (Bill Moyers) is not necessarily the keeper of truth on this issue. He has a perspective, to be sure, that is shared by many. There are other sources (beyond the one Exxon-supported one indicated in his speech) that disagree. And it's a bit absurd to imply that all conservative opposition to environmental protection stems from belief in The Rapture. In other words, a little less "Bill Moyers says this -- anything else is wrong" and a little more "Bill Moyers had this interesting thing to say."

Again, all of that is "if I were you," which I'm not. Nor am I the judge of what is and is not right for MeFi. Just my .02.
posted by pardonyou? at 8:51 AM on December 9, 2004

I really want to know if I helped make MeFi a better place.

OK, first off, what everyone else said about this MeTa post. But, since we're all discussing it...

Your post is pretty much par for the course here as far as posting goes recently, so no, you haven't made it a better place. IMHO, par for the course here is actually bad. The fact that you felt the need to pre-emptively MeTa yourself says to me that you intuitively realize this yourself.

You're not saying anything that hasn't already been said a million times here already- a small group of hard-core Christian fundies exerts an inordinate level of control over various aspects of U.S. government policy, much to the dismay of rational thinkers in said fields.

We know.

Now, there is actually an interesting point in the linked article that was brought up in the subsequent destruction- that some of these folks don't simply view themselves as part of the prophecy of the Apocalypse, but actively want to speed it up. That's a novel point that your (overlong) FPP totally glosses over. Focus on that.
posted by mkultra at 8:51 AM on December 9, 2004

Um, were you reading MetaFilter for the 18 months or so BEFORE the "new user influx"? Because I remember very little but "current events, news, and diatribe" filter.

Yeah, but like someone said up there, there was just less of it. We knew who the offenders were. Some complained about it, others (me, for instance) recognized and skipped over it. Now it seems like it's every other post.

I get the impression that many people have put too much time and effort into their first posts. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can easily lead to a felt need to make the post About Something Special, and we end up with a bunch of links postly purely for the sake of discussion.

I think that a post should made with a "Hey, that's a neat link, MeFi would appreciate that" attitude, not a "Whatever happened to the War on Drugs? We need to talk about this Very Important Issue." But that's me.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 8:51 AM on December 9, 2004

This is an awfully stupid post. Let's hope this nasty trend doesn't continue.
posted by xmutex at 8:56 AM on December 9, 2004

The posted sucked. So does this one.
posted by timeistight at 8:57 AM on December 9, 2004

How do you know when to replace an old filter?
There seems to be no filtration left.
posted by NinjaPirate at 8:58 AM on December 9, 2004

I tend to read each paragraph as a separate post, and they don't tend to make any sense when you do that so I never look at them again. Maybe that's just me though.

smackfu: It's not just you. It's not just you and me, either.

This wasn't old-style-y2karl-level egregious, but it was unnecessary. So since you asked, jimray, and since others will be reading this: Don't put paragraph breaks in your FPP unless there's an amazing, exceptional reason for doing so.

Oh yes, and: Don't come to Meta just to get more "feedback" on what you've posted in the blue.
posted by soyjoy at 9:03 AM on December 9, 2004

Give jimray a break. His error is in either ignorance or confusion, but it almost certainly is not in ill-will. I agree with DrJohnEvans and others who assert that FPPs should not be primarily issue-advocacy or discussion-oriented. (And by "discussion oriented" what I mean is a post that exists for the sake of the discussion and not for the sake of the link.) So I am not thrilled with the post. And, really, it's (unintentional) flame-bait.

As for this MeTa post, what's objectionable about it is that it's far too specific. What if every person who posts to the blue accompanied it with a post here asking for feedback? But I think both your FPP and this MeTa post were well-intentioned and for that reason I feel that people are being far too harsh.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:05 AM on December 9, 2004

I'll leave this post up for the harsh feedback that other new users can read, but I didn't think the original post was very good at all.

Trying to say Christians are purposely destroying the planet in order to bring on their rapture is a big leap of faith from their policies (which are pro-business as much as possible, including environmental rollbacks, but not for the sole purpose of environmental degredation) and basically sets up a chritstian bashing thread that's already been done ten thousand times already.

I think the front page has been great and it's only in the last couple days that some poltical stinkers have surfaced onto the front page. So, try again jim and try to stick to other subjects. We all post a political opinion post every once in a while, but I think everyone is capable of bouncing back into posting good stuff.
posted by mathowie at 9:23 AM on December 9, 2004

jimray-- one thing a learned when I first started posting on MeFi was Rule No. 1: Don't try too hard. Seeking validation for your first FPP is trying too hard. Not that I'm an expert: I'm a noob just like you. I still haven't popped my FPP cherry either, although I've already had threads deleted from AskMeFi. Trust me, I sucked.

Your FPP was okay; in fact for a noob it is about the best you could hope for. Some noobs came up with great first FPP's, but then they have a really high standard to live up to. Your first FPP was passable and it will be easy to improve on it next time. The increase in quality will establish a trend and help develop your reputation, hopefully.

But like I said, I'm a noob, too. What do I know?
posted by Doohickie at 10:20 AM on December 9, 2004

The "feedback" you get on a post is the comments in it. If people begin discussing the topic and have a good time, and some of them even compliment you, you've succeeded. If you get a couple of knee-jerk in jokes, scattered grunts of dissatisfaction with your post, and an overall comment count of 6, you have more or less failed, or at least not succeeded in any big way.
posted by scarabic at 10:34 AM on December 9, 2004

I disagree. Comment count should not be considered in any way a measurement of post quality.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:36 AM on December 9, 2004

True, but I think scarabic's point is that it's a bad sign when ALL 6 are gripes/in-jokes, which is a good one.
posted by mkultra at 10:42 AM on December 9, 2004

'K, I agree.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:51 AM on December 9, 2004

If nothing more, may this serve as "newbies - here's what not to do" - there's a zenlike satisfaction in that, I suppose.
posted by jimray at 11:02 AM on December 9, 2004

Well, yeah. A post with 100 comments is going to have some scattered grunts of dissatisfaction, and certainly some in jokes, but it may be a success anyway. There are certainly 100-comment failures, as well. I think we call them train wrecks, cause people just keep getting pulled in, one car full after another.
posted by scarabic at 11:07 AM on December 9, 2004

The blue post was forgettable at best, nearly delete-worthy at worst. This post however is atrocious and is one of the worst MeTa threads in weeks. The only good thing that came out of this was reading comments in which people trashed you for posting this. In that respect, you have provided 5 minutes of entertainment to my life.
posted by Arch Stanton at 11:44 AM on December 9, 2004

If nothing more, may this serve as "newbies - here's what not to do" - there's a zenlike satisfaction in that, I suppose.

god damn I like that attitude. Would that there were more of it around here.
posted by jpoulos at 12:09 PM on December 9, 2004

The only good thing that came out of this was reading comments in which people trashed you for posting this. In that respect, you have provided 5 minutes of entertainment to my life.

It's these sorts of little victories I strive for most.
posted by jimray at 1:37 PM on December 9, 2004

Will it also serve as "oldies - here's how to be more crotchety than necessary"?
posted by jb at 1:39 PM on December 9, 2004

I am shocked, shocked I say, that nobody has made the following comment about jimray's self-callout:

"The first rule of the First Time MeFi Posters Club is Never talk about the First Time MeFi Posters Club"
posted by wendell at 1:45 PM on December 9, 2004

Please don't talk about my crotch.
posted by mkultra at 1:54 PM on December 9, 2004

...MeFi Posters Club...
I got my super groovy, wall-size Miguel pin-up ages ago, but never got any after that. Worst waste of $1.99/month EVER!!! ; P
posted by amberglow at 2:31 PM on December 9, 2004

Yeah, but the trading cards and role-playing game are pretty cool.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:54 PM on December 9, 2004

that's true : >

I'll trade you 3 Seths, a y6, and a ParisParamus, for a Madamejujujive?
posted by amberglow at 3:43 PM on December 9, 2004

Fuck the blue. I wish Matt would start culling threads on the grey. This is some perpindicular bojanglation.
posted by The God Complex at 5:29 PM on December 9, 2004

You are only cool if you don't ask if you're cool. Once you care, you're outta the gang.

IMHO: Blue post - it was not so much 'good' rather than 'you just didn't fuck up'.

Grey post - 'you fucked up'.

But I haven't made any posts, so read everything I say with the veil of Isis over your face.
posted by cosmonik at 6:12 PM on December 9, 2004

cosmonik- We noobs can be just as judgmental as the oldbies, eh? : >
posted by Doohickie at 6:57 PM on December 9, 2004

Doohickie - Hell yeah. I've read this site for nigh on four years now, and I've had to put up with shifting through the periods of bad posts as much as anyone else, member or not. The only difference before was I couldn't complain about it :D
posted by cosmonik at 7:15 PM on December 9, 2004

I've posted to the blue 12 times. 15,000+ sign-ups later and my posts still suck. I have no point. Or do I?
posted by Dick Paris at 7:35 PM on December 9, 2004

This is some perpindicular bojanglation.

you crazy bastard, there's no stopping you is there...?!
posted by t r a c y at 7:59 PM on December 9, 2004

A guy taking pictures of a bunny with pancakes on its head is a good post. This is DailyKos, revisited.

If the subject is already the matter of discussion on plenty of other popular websites, it's unlikely that readers haven't already seen it. For example, there are frequently some really good posts on Slashdot; simply regurgitating them here would be pointless.

There are basically three types of good posts.*

1. The obscure and/or ridiculous
2. The encyclopediac
3. The scoop

Beware of the scoop, be thorough with the encyclopediac, and be selective with the obscure/ridiculous.

* Disclaimer: This could all be wrong.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:47 AM on December 10, 2004

You killed Metafilter, jimray, you dirty bastard. You killed it! I hope you're happy with yourself, you evil newbie scum!

Disclaimer: This could all be wrong.

Confirmation : this is completely wrong.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:43 AM on December 10, 2004

That's okay. MetaFilter, like Kenny, cannot be permanently killed.
posted by Doohickie at 6:07 AM on December 10, 2004

Confirmation : this is completely wrong.

I thought it was pretty good. I'm sure there have been good posts that aren't one of those three types, but I can't think of any right now.
posted by timeistight at 8:48 AM on December 10, 2004

I just did, actually...

4. Fun/Cool/Interesting Flash (on Fridays, or sometimes not)
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:55 AM on December 10, 2004