Newsfilter posts to well-trafficked can be good (with an example)

March 30, 2005 11:58 AM

OK, I'm going to start a flamewar. This is why one-link Newsfilter FPPs from well-trafficked websites aren't evil. (The via doesn't count as part of the post for me.) The poster added context and teased the story. Bravo.
posted by sachinag to etiquette/policy at 11:58 AM (58 comments total)

I haven't reread all of the comments but did people get upset with the single link FPP? I think its a great story.
posted by fenriq at 12:16 PM on March 30, 2005

Yah, boy, the flames are really raging in here.

Um, no-one (reasonable) ever said every such post is evil.

*ducks out to avoid the raging inferno of anger and excoriating condemnation swirling though this flamewar of a thread.*
posted by freebird at 12:18 PM on March 30, 2005

UM, why is this not lame?!
A single link post to a story better suited to USA Today or Fox News then Meta?!
This is as lame as it gets, especially when the poster could have easily added links to say, M.I.T. or sites having to do with the probs of undocumented aliens or on the history of robotics etc., etc. etc.
This is as lame as an FPP can possibly get!
posted by berek at 12:19 PM on March 30, 2005

FREEBIRD!

*waves lighter*
posted by quonsar at 12:23 PM on March 30, 2005

Bondcliff thinks berek hasn't hasn't been around very long.

What would a link to MIT have added to that post?

"Oh... look... and there's a technology school in Massachusetts, I'm glad they told me. And I had no idea there was a problem with undocumented aliens..."

Why is adding fluff in the form of more links a Good Thing?
posted by bondcliff at 12:25 PM on March 30, 2005

I have no problem with the link. In fact I enjoyed it. It's not a half page news article, it's a detailed story. Linking to other sites would have just been distracting.

on preview: what bondcliff said
posted by boymilo at 12:27 PM on March 30, 2005

What the hell is wrong with one link posts? Why does every post have to be fortified with extra links if it's good enough to stand on its own? That's such bullshit. If I find a link to a cool site I'm damn well going to post it on its own without adding extra links just to meet some ridiculous quota or imagined ideal. Google that shit yourself if you need some extra links.
posted by iconomy at 12:28 PM on March 30, 2005

We agree with sachinag. ;-P
posted by mischief at 12:28 PM on March 30, 2005

Google that shit yourself

Agreed.
posted by boymilo at 12:29 PM on March 30, 2005

What would a link to MIT have added to that post?

Wanna bet that M.I.T. has a page about the contest? It's always nice to get more then one side of a story.
posted by berek at 12:29 PM on March 30, 2005

It's not "newsfilter" because it's not a giant news story that everyone's heard of already. And it's amusing. Newsfilter doesn't just mean all of the news.
posted by puke & cry at 12:31 PM on March 30, 2005

Sachinag: You're going to have to look harder for people to engage in your flame war. There don't seem to be many here.
Personally, I'm an outspoken opponent of Newsfilter, but the post you're talking about isn't newsfilter.

(Note: Berek's posts seem to be in contention right now, so I'm not sure I'd count his post above as being in disagreement with your, sachinag)
posted by Bugbread at 12:33 PM on March 30, 2005

This isn't what people are talking about when they're talking about newsfilter. Wired is not CNN.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:33 PM on March 30, 2005

google that shit yourself

Wow! Good idea, look at all this neat stuff!

"The story of the Brown Note, also known as the “Disco Dump,” asserts the existence of a low frequency vibration which, when reproduced at sufficient volume, resonates with the depths of the human digestive tract to cause what medical personnel call “involuntary gastrointestinal motility.” Put in less technical terms, the Brown Note reputedly precipitates a loss of sphincter control, giving rise to immediate defecation. Different versions of the myth place the frequency between 5 and 20 Hz, and recent variations claim that the effect has been produced at loud rock concerts." *

And all this time I thought Brown Note was an E-Z Listen'n Jazz Label!
posted by freebird at 12:43 PM on March 30, 2005

Looks at marshmallow-on-sticks stand and sighs.

I'll never get these sold now.
posted by dabitch at 12:43 PM on March 30, 2005

Yeah, I don't think this is newsfilter. Newsfilter is when you have a link to a story that's already being discussed endlessly in the main stream media. This is an unusual story that most of us haven't heard about.
posted by unreason at 12:44 PM on March 30, 2005

"Newsfilter doesn't just mean all of the news."

Yes, it does.

"Wired is not CNN."

In this context, yes, it is.

posted by mischief at 2:14 PM on March 30, 2005

MetaTalk: What we talk about when we talk about Newsfilter
posted by papercake at 2:16 PM on March 30, 2005

This is as lame as an FPP can possibly get!

Why all the excitement?

Of course Berek. We all know that the more links you throw in a post, the better. It's the proverbial "throwing shit against the wall". Something is bound to stick, right?
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 2:20 PM on March 30, 2005

Here's some links:

2004 MATE ROV competition
MIT's entry

The page for the high schoolers has exceeded their allowed bandwidth, but rest assured, it would also beat MIT's page.
posted by smackfu at 2:20 PM on March 30, 2005

mischief : "Yes, it does."

No, it doesn't. Infinity.
posted by Bugbread at 2:21 PM on March 30, 2005

I don't know about anyone else, but if a FPP has more than 3 links to it then it gets thrown on the pile of "the ones I'm going to skip".
posted by clevershark at 2:26 PM on March 30, 2005

This is not newsfilter. Matt gave us a bright line test:

Remember kids, feeding tubes = newsfilter.
posted by mathowie at 10:37 AM PST on March 24 [!]

Seriously, newsfilter is about Schiavo, Iraq, Nader, Israel, etc. Stuff that everyone is already discussing everywhere else.
posted by anapestic at 2:29 PM on March 30, 2005

I think this Star Wars/M&Ms commercial would probably be a bad FPP.
posted by fandango_matt at 2:33 PM on March 30, 2005

clevershark : "I don't know about anyone else, but if a FPP has more than 3 links to it then it gets thrown on the pile of 'the ones I'm going to skip'."

I use the first two links as a "trial period". If they're links to dictionary.com, or a map, or a (regular, uninteresting) picture, or something else clearly non-best-of-the-web like that, I don't bother with the rest.

In my experience, single link posts tend to have the better links (that is, the best links tend to be in single link posts, not that the majority of single link posts have the best links), but there are occasional "holy hell how did this person manage to find 10 links, all of which absolutely rock, about a single subject?!" episodes that make me unwilling to write off a multilinked post without trying it out.
posted by Bugbread at 2:35 PM on March 30, 2005

What if they threw a flamewar and nobody came?
posted by norm at 2:37 PM on March 30, 2005

Single link FPP's killed my dog.
posted by docpops at 2:55 PM on March 30, 2005

I think this Star Wars/M&Ms commercial would probably be a bad FPP.

Ok, that was just unsettling.
posted by berek at 3:10 PM on March 30, 2005

It's not that this post is particularly good, it's that the uproar around newsfilter is way overblown and really unnecessary. IMhO, as long as the story is good, single link, no description posts can still constitute "the best of the web."
posted by fire&wings at 3:15 PM on March 30, 2005

fire&wings : "the uproar around newsfilter is way overblown...single link, no description posts can still constitute 'the best of the web.'"

Two separate issues. Newsfilter can be multilink and/or descriptive, and single link no description posts can be non-newsfilter.
posted by Bugbread at 3:29 PM on March 30, 2005

This is a pretty broke-dick excuse for a flamewar, assclown! Try harder, or I'll wax your eyelids. [/comedy flame]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:30 PM on March 30, 2005

I really don't see what all this has to do with the Disco Dump.

Can we please try and focus on what's important, people?
posted by freebird at 3:35 PM on March 30, 2005

"newsfilter is about Schiavo, Iraq, Nader, Israel, etc. Stuff that everyone is already discussing everywhere else"

Joan Kennedy hospitalized with concussion
posted by mischief at 3:40 PM on March 30, 2005

I propose it being called WiredFilter...

That said, nothing wrong with it.
posted by schyler523 at 4:34 PM on March 30, 2005

I think most people understand that I wasn't trying to start a flamewar. (Seriously, are those fun?) I just wanted to take the kudos about the FPP from the blue to the gray.

But I also figured if I was going to do that, I should make the point that "Newsfilter" or single link FPPs aren't a priori bad/wrong/evil/not "best o' the Web". I'm not so sure that Newsfilter is like pornography (I know it when I see it), because I think Wired certainly isn't any less "mainstream media" than daily Kos is, and I've seen stuff discussed there and brought here slammed as Newsfilter. And to chuck rocks at two birds, this FPP proves (to me) that single link FPPs can be done well, and I said why I thought this one was. I wouldn't think, for example, that the link to the Wired story without the teasing would be a good FPP.

posted by sachinag at 4:48 PM on March 30, 2005

Each thread has a limited amount of my time that I can conceivably devote to it. The more links you place in the post, the thinner you're spreading that potential time among your links. Think of it as the FPP corollary to sociology's diffusion of responsibility. And yes, it will kill your post dead as far as I'm concerned.
posted by NortonDC at 5:03 PM on March 30, 2005

Thanks fandango_matt! That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.
posted by redfisch at 5:12 PM on March 30, 2005

NortonDC's point is much more true these days where there are a lot more FPPs than there were in the past. There was a time when I read all posts and followed almost all the links and usually read all the comments. That time is no more. I will look at multiple links in a post if the post is very interesting and the link that I guessed and followed leads me to believe that it's worth following the others. That's usually not the case.

Even so, links are good things. Hyperlinks are quite wonderful (except that they go stale) and in my opinion the more links the better, as a rule. With some caveats: the important links, the one you expect everyone to follow, should be made obvious to the reader. Also, depending upon how one's browser displays links, they can really reduce readability, which is a shame. A good idea would probably be more than one kind of hyperlink: one that displays very obviously, and one that announces itself either very subtly or only when moused over. Since this isn't the case currently, lots and lots of links can make it very difficult for many people to be comfortable reading what you write. (I solve this myself partly by turning off everywhere hyperlink underlines.)
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:35 PM on March 30, 2005

(Whoops. that I guessed and followed leads me should have been that I guessed was the main link and, once followed, leads me.)
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:37 PM on March 30, 2005

I really don't think this is newsfilter either.

Wow, redfisch. You've had a sad day.
posted by graventy at 5:39 PM on March 30, 2005

"Here's a good post! Rather than just praise the poster for it, since I'm incredibly bored, I'll strawman that some people don't like it and try to troll them into an argument!"
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:24 PM on March 30, 2005

Um, no-one (reasonable) ever said every such post is evil.

And even if they had, one exceptional case would hardly budge their opinion.

Bravo.
posted by scarabic at 7:39 PM on March 30, 2005

the uproar around newsfilter is way overblown...single link, no description posts can still constitute 'the best of the web.

Sorry, but no way. Single link posts are incredibly lame. The reason many read MetaFilter is for the wonderful multi link posts that combine esoteric links into an interesting whole.
posted by berek at 8:18 PM on March 30, 2005

The number of links is hard to generalize about. There are great single link posts. There are shitty 20-link posts. That's another discussion. This is the newsfilter discussion.

But please, never offer "the reason many read MetaFilter is X" as support for any assertion in any discussion here. It's pulling conclusions out of a hat and means nothing.
posted by scarabic at 8:35 PM on March 30, 2005

As I fixed bugs all day I have been chuckling at the image of an entire stadium filled with bouncing grooving young fans. The band is on stage: reaching that glorious climax, sending that thumping bumping wave of good vibe up through the floor, milking those low thrumming joyous vibes. Suddenly, unexpectedly, hitting that magic Brown Note, and the entire stadium of drunk high rockers quite literally Losing Their Shit.

Oh, are you guys still talking about the Robot Post?
posted by freebird at 8:37 PM on March 30, 2005

Sorry, but no way. Single link posts are incredibly lame.

berek, your head is up your ass on this one. You might want to try to listen instead of confusing your personal taste with absurd pronouncements of fact.

Single link posts are not inherently lame. For example, I could have kept this one to a single link using the first three words, and it would have been just as equal a post. Sure, my *preference* is to point to a few more pages at a rich site as a way to encourage folks to see what I liked so much, but that's just icing. Your dismissal of that kind of post in favor of only those "that combine esoteric links into an interesting whole" simply shows how much you have to learn about the site.

If you really believe single-link posts to cool sites haven't lain at the heart of Metafilter for years, you're being a fool.

sachinag, for what it's worth it never occured to me that the Wired article would be considered newsfilter by anyone. My definition of newsfilter kicks in when the article linked is the kind of short and shallow coverage that's so typical of the daily morass, and that can be found everywhere online. "Kid kills 10 at school" being the classic example. *That's* the kind of post that needs the context provided by extra links, as Matt has repeatedly pointed out.
posted by mediareport at 9:10 PM on March 30, 2005

If you really believe single-link posts to cool sites haven't lain at the heart of Metafilter for years, you're being a fool.

Word. Cruise the deep archives for a bit. Wheneverthefuck you think Metafilter's Golden Age was (you know, the peak which we've apparently been sliding down like Sisyphus on a bad day ever since) chances are it was built on single links and not the link gangbangs that, while not necessarily bad, don't deserve any undue credit because of a preponderance of href tags.
posted by Cyrano at 9:37 PM on March 30, 2005

I don't know about anyone else, but if a FPP has more than 3 links to it then it gets thrown on the pile of "the ones I'm going to skip"

I do too. Because I still come here to discover the occasional interesting site. My MO when I post something is just to share some cool site I found. I don't necessarily formulate posts to start discussions, or teach anyone anything. If those things happen, great, but that's just icing on the cake.
posted by iconomy at 5:52 AM on March 31, 2005

Metafilter is a place where the membership share the very best links they find. Extra links may help with context, but it's all about the Very Best link you find. One link posts should be the bulk of MeFi postings, not a derided exception.

If you are trolling through Google looking for something to post to MeFi you're on the wrong track.
posted by norm at 7:25 AM on March 31, 2005

Single link posts are not inherently lame.

Sorry, but no matter how much you argue it, they are.
If you love single link posts so much hang out at Fark.
There are lots and lots of sites that have plenty of single link posts.
There are very few posts that have good multi link posts which, when combined, are greater then the individual parts.

One link posts should be the bulk of MeFi postings, not a derided exception.

I repest, if you like single link posts so much, FARK!
posted by berek at 11:28 AM on March 31, 2005

"Re-pest" is exactly the right word.
posted by Mid at 12:28 PM on March 31, 2005

I repest

Yes.

Dear berek,

This issue has been debated in MetaTalk since time immemorial (aka sometime in '99). You are entitled to your opinion, and it is one that has at various times been shared by some of the other members of the community. To the best of my memory, though, none of them have ever taken the hardline stance that you seem to be taking, which, if you'll allow me to paraphrase, seems to be "the quality of a post is directly proportional to the number of links it contains".

As I say, you're entitled. You should be aware, however, that your opinion does not seem to be shared by anyone else here. I'll say that again to make sure you heard it: there is no evidence that anyone else here agrees with you.

Now, if we were arguing about a matter of fact (for example, whether Neil Armstrong ever actually set foot on the moon), then there might be a certain noble tenacity in maintaining a position that no one else does. In this case, however, we're talking about what is best for a community of a few thousand people. Your stubborn insistence that you know better than the rest of us about this matter that concerns all of us is, er, a trifle off-putting. Heck, I'll say it: it makes you look stupid.

Please stop.
posted by gleuschk at 12:30 PM on March 31, 2005

But what if he's right?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:37 PM on March 31, 2005

the quality of a post is directly proportional to the number of links it contains

NO. Many single links are indeed links to quality sites. However, what makes Metafilter special is when someone puts together a wonderful conglomeration of links that are tied to a single subject yet each one is still unique in some way. There are many many many sites with quality single link posts. There are very few that have quality multi link posts. Since Meta was opened to new posters the number of quality multi link posts have declined while the number of single link posts have skyrocketed. The single link posts themselves wouldn't be so bad if they were mostly unique links not covered elsewhere but so many of the links are better suited to a news site like FARK or to a gag site like Cruel.com. The number of links themselves is not an indication of quality but rather the care with which they are selected and matched up is.

But what if he's right?

Berek is ALWAYS right. Or so the voice in his head says.
posted by berek at 12:59 PM on March 31, 2005

What if the voice is wrong?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:46 PM on March 31, 2005

berek : "However, what makes Metafilter special is when someone puts together a wonderful conglomeration of links that are tied to a single subject yet each one is still unique in some way."

I heartily disagree.
posted by Bugbread at 6:34 PM on March 31, 2005

Berek is ALWAYS right.

Let me guess. You're 12, right? Some advice: you don't have to act like a deliberate moron to get attention at group sites.

You're welcome.
posted by mediareport at 8:20 PM on March 31, 2005

berek is wrong.
posted by NortonDC at 7:17 AM on April 1, 2005