Comments for Projects

December 7, 2005 9:04 PM

Dear Santa,

I already know that I'm getting the Schwinn "Stingray" 5 speed, ala 1977, and I already have one of my front teeth;

what I really, really need is "comments" for Mefi Projects.

I know it's been discussed, but I think it might be important. Frankly, I've seen a few things posted that could use some further insight. I haven't been inclined to send things to the blue for further discussion, it should happen their on the (white)?
posted by snsranch to Feature Requests at 9:04 PM (39 comments total)

dammit, "there on the white!"
posted by snsranch at 9:05 PM on December 7, 2005

You completely stole my idea but confused Mathowie for Santa.
posted by TwelveTwo at 9:08 PM on December 7, 2005

Also you used some sort of device to travel minutes into the past... Anyway, in the interest of not making more noise, I think this is a good idea, but I worry about people using it to uselessly criticize and snark lesser projects to death. But maybe that is a good thing?
posted by TwelveTwo at 9:15 PM on December 7, 2005

I agree... I understand the whole "it will be rewarded comments if it's good enough to be promoted to the Blue", but there are many projects posted that most likely won't make it to the Blue but still warrant comments from the community... even if it's just a "good job, User X!"
posted by Robot Johnny at 9:15 PM on December 7, 2005

No comments on projects please, but can we vote a project - (bad) as well? For, against, and abstain really cover the basic alignments of possible comments anyway. Any specifics can be directed at the creator.
posted by moift at 9:26 PM on December 7, 2005

Curious... moift, what reason is there not to have comments?
posted by knave at 9:32 PM on December 7, 2005

Well, knave, limiting people to good or bad I think induces honestly and frankness. If I were to post a project I'd care a lot more about the general sentiment than what individual douchebags have to say about particular aspects of it. People who court the individual douchebag market can provide an email in profile or include feedback as a part of the linked project. Whatever criticisms or compliments you could put in the comments you could certainly address to the OP to the same effect.
posted by moift at 9:42 PM on December 7, 2005

Frankly, I think many of the posted "projects" could use some meta-help. That's what I meant a while ago when I wrote about collaboration. There are so many good ideas that might be just on the brink of brilliance but need that extra push from fellow mefites.
posted by snsranch at 9:43 PM on December 7, 2005

There are so many good ideas that might be just on the brink of brilliance but need that extra push from fellow mefites.

I think this is because it's called Projects. If there's not going to be any back-and-forth dialogue or collaboration, it should just be called Metafilter Show-and-Tell.
posted by Robot Johnny at 9:55 PM on December 7, 2005

Yeah, comments will show up there eventually.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:14 PM on December 7, 2005

Another strong vote for comments and *questions*, please. I've tried, but don't understand the argument against them at all. It would enrich that area so much and enhance its usefulness to everyone interested to have an ongoing conversation in which members could ask questions and offer suggestions to one another.

Without that functionality, Mefi Projects is barely interesting enough to visit once a week. Barely.
posted by mediareport at 10:16 PM on December 7, 2005

On posting: Overall frabjousness.
posted by mediareport at 10:17 PM on December 7, 2005

I was surprised to see no comments, too. I assumed it was a deliberate choice. But I guess on some level, if it really cries out for discussion then maybe that's one indication that it's post-worthy.

An instant feedback loop would be more incentive to post there, though. Almost anything community-driven online has to have quick feedback mechanisms. Voting is interesting, just kinda hollow I guess.
posted by scarabic at 10:36 PM on December 7, 2005

I'm trying to decide how I would feel putting up a project knowing that the rabble userbase may be about to tear my idea and ego to shreds. Hmm...depends on what it was I guess. If it was a site for a business I probably wouldn't care but if it was for my sketches say, then I might not welcome negative feedback.

What I'm saying is, before this becomes another carte blanche regular MeFi page, perhaps consider letting the project poster decide whether or not they want to allow commentary OR perhaps they might just want some private feedback via email. It seems to me that there's a lot more invested by a member in a project than in say a front page post of someone else's material.

So I suggest commenting on a project should be optional.
posted by peacay at 10:58 PM on December 7, 2005

I was surprised to see no comments, too. I assumed it was a deliberate choice. But I guess on some level, if it really cries out for discussion then maybe that's one indication that it's post-worthy.

It was a deliberate choice, but that dosn't mean it won't take work to undo.
posted by delmoi at 11:11 PM on December 7, 2005

I agree with peacay.
posted by delmoi at 11:16 PM on December 7, 2005

(or maybe we could even let posters delete comments in their own thread? but that would open up a huge can of worms)
posted by delmoi at 11:16 PM on December 7, 2005

Well, there is the option of doing private, creator-only-gets-to-view-them comments.

My thinking of not doing comments was that it'd take away from people reposting to MetaFilter proper. If there are 40 comments on a projects post saying "wow, great stuff!" and then it gets posted to metafilter the next day, it's almost like a repost and people won't comment again. I wanted to make the incentives such that good projects get posted to the blue and everyone discusses it there.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:58 PM on December 7, 2005

I've enjoyed the community noticeboard feel of MeFiPro since it began, and have been visiting it first before the green, the blue and the grey - there's gold in them thar mefites!

I like the frank "this is what i got, check it out" presentation, and the simple vote system; can't we save the discussion for either the blue or through channels for feedback the poster provides?

Having said that, maybe comments could be an option for projects posts, not mandatory?

My understanding was that the purpose of mefiprojects was for members to share, not to compete, or seek judgement. I know I'm a stinky warm fuzzy hippy, but i guess that's what i found so refreshing and endearing about this addition to the mefi community stables so far, with it's lack of elephant piss, popcorn munchers, pitchforks and vitriolic randomness.

I just want to make sure that people continue to share, is all, because it's been awesome so far.

/steps back into the eldritch lurker shadows
posted by elphTeq at 3:34 AM on December 8, 2005

Comments will ruin the Projects section.
posted by Rothko at 3:45 AM on December 8, 2005

I agree that carte blanche comments would ruin Projects. Private contact form, including anonymous capability, would be a good thing and could help to drive worthy projects to MeFi.main.

Something like Peacay's suggestion might work. But on the whole, I would argue that the degree of ambivalence over this should bump it down the priority ladder. While it's in queue for development, people can continue to consider the issue.
posted by lodurr at 4:23 AM on December 8, 2005

Well, there is the option of doing private, creator-only-gets-to-view-them comments.

How about merging that with peacay's suggestion and doing comments but allowing the project poster to choose whether they are public or private?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:36 AM on December 8, 2005

Yay that.

I will be posting my Political Mess there (full web and ad strategy for an adorable geek of a candidate) once it's up and running fully next year! Comments would be most helpful.
posted by By The Grace of God at 4:39 AM on December 8, 2005

Have you considered allowing just one comment at the time of the vote?
posted by safetyfork at 6:40 AM on December 8, 2005

So few projects get posted to the front page that it seems a shame to limit discussion of the others for those few. As for ruining the site, perhaps we could have a strictly enforced "no insults" policy in Projects, like AskMe's "nothing unhelpful" policy, which is generally working very well. It's certainly possible to enable comments and then make sure the normal MeFi messes don't show up in the new space.

We've done it once before, anyway.
posted by mediareport at 8:44 AM on December 8, 2005

I don't understand why people would be afraid of what happens in the comments section. You just posted a link on the intarweb and someone, besides your Mother who thinks everything you do is the bestest best, is bound to see it and have an opinion. Why not let them express it?
posted by haqspan at 10:13 AM on December 8, 2005

Because people have been real dicks about their comments lately around here, and a lot of people figure that a "here's my cool project" page is likely to be shit for flies on that score. And a lot of people think that would be a bad thing.

I'm personaly unclear on why the comments need to be public. Wouldn't private comments be good enough? After all, presumably your comment is intended to be for the benefit of the person to whome the project belongs. And Matt has said he's interested in pursuing that when he's got the time.

Anyway, one of the reasons people would post there would be to elicit substantive comments -- not somebody showing off genital engorgement by dumping on anything they don't think is cool. (And I would rather not have to point out why "strict enforcement" is not an option.)
posted by lodurr at 10:21 AM on December 8, 2005

I'm pretty sure that the StingRay was more like circa 1967.
posted by fixedgear at 1:51 PM on December 8, 2005

Gods, I can only imagine the pile-ons that would come from comments in projects. My completely valueless vote on that idea is "nay."
posted by phearlez at 2:58 PM on December 8, 2005

I support this wonderful idea.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:06 PM on December 8, 2005

Okay, what about limiting comments to one per day per person (for the entire set of projects), just as AskMetafilter is limited to one per week?

That way, people are likely to be a bit parsimonius about which projects they comment on.
posted by WestCoaster at 3:07 PM on December 8, 2005

There are all kinds of interesting ways we could try. It's kind of a neet challenge - like, how can we enable the fruitful discussion that will help users make their projects *better*, while simultaneously nipping assholishness and snide cracks about the worth of the work members have put in.

Bottom line: It's doable, and Mefi Projects would benefit immensely.
posted by mediareport at 9:31 PM on December 8, 2005

I'll check to see if any of my elves know ColdFusion, but I'm not optimistic. They're a little busy right now anyway.

If only the kids of today were just asking for bikes and their front teeth! It's getting harder and harder to make the good boys and girls happy when they're asking for things like "a computer that doesn't crash" and "a pony, by which I do not mean a young equine but rather a feature on a Web site." The worst one this year is probably "an Xbox 360." I mean, where the hell am I supposed to get those? I stood in line all night at Best Buy and they only let me have one.
posted by Santa Claus at 11:18 PM on December 8, 2005

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why it's important that commetns be public. What's the value? Contact the owner personally, if you really think your comments are of that much value.

What's really going on is similar to ikkyu2's observation that we all think we're little chiefs and our every unique and special utterance needs to be noticed, acknowledged and acted upon.

(I wonder if we could correlate that attitude with nationality?)
posted by lodurr at 3:59 AM on December 9, 2005

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why it's important that commetns be public. What's the value?

Of open conversation? Boy, are you ever at the wrong site.
posted by mediareport at 7:52 AM on December 9, 2005

No, mediareport, I'm not. Because the merits of 'open conversation' are not a given, believe it or not.

But since you think they are a given, I guess that means you feel no need to explain what those benefits are and how they apply to this situation -- and how they are or are not affected by the near certainty that open conversations on Projects would result in people getting truckloads of shit dumped on their heads by people who think that "open conversation" is synonymous with "you need to listen to me because I'm clearly so much smarter than you are, you ignorant little pissant"?
posted by lodurr at 8:08 AM on December 9, 2005

Again, I suggest a strictly enforced "no truckloads of shit" rule, since you missed it the first time.
posted by mediareport at 8:35 AM on December 9, 2005

... and you missed the part where I pointed out that people ought to be able to see that's not a serious option.

It's my expeirence that people who call for strict enforcement of the rules are seldom willing to pay for more cops, and seldom happy when the enforcement is levied against them.
posted by lodurr at 8:47 AM on December 9, 2005

It's my expeirence that people who call for strict enforcement of the rules are seldom willing to pay for more cops, and seldom happy when the enforcement is levied against them.

That's completely irrelevant. Your bald assertion that it's "not a serious option" is silly, given that we've all seen a similar option working well in AskMe. Unless you're willing to state that we have a serious problem with insults and judgmental bullshit turning AskMe into a useless mess, your argument that a similar solution is impossible in Projects falls apart.

We don't have such a problem in AskMe, due to the current level of enforcement of one simple rule. We can do the same in Projects. End of story.
posted by mediareport at 6:33 PM on December 9, 2005