Comments on 11346

Although the self-link was fixed by Jessamyn, I doubt that this was posted in the true spirit of AskMe, considering that the OP was booted from MoFi for self-linking ten days ago.
posted by Alvy Ampersand to etiquette/policy at 8:49 AM (109 comments total)

I like how MoFi handles self-linkers.
posted by goatdog at 9:10 AM on February 21, 2006

De-links the link and puts "Banned: self-linker" in the profile. Hmmm.
posted by Gator at 9:15 AM on February 21, 2006

Browsing through my logs and exploring the links leading to “25 Best License-Free Quality Fonts”, I accidentally discovered Delicious and Fontin – two unique, delightful, delicious, license-free beauties, which definitely will make a lasting positive impression on the visitors of your web-projects.

That's some of the clumsiest copy I've ever read.
posted by brundlefly at 9:24 AM on February 21, 2006

MeFi is like one big state of suspicion and fear these days.
posted by xmutex at 9:25 AM on February 21, 2006

With good reason, it appears
posted by blag at 9:30 AM on February 21, 2006

On one hand, it's not a useless question.

On the other hand, they lied.
posted by smackfu at 9:36 AM on February 21, 2006

xmutex writes "MeFi is like one big state of suspicion and fear these days."

This guy is clumsy, he didn't even bother to change his UserName. Not much suspicion needed on this one.
posted by Mitheral at 9:37 AM on February 21, 2006

Interesting. The weird copy may because the guy isn't from the US/Canada, and I assumed English wasn't his first language.

So then there's the next question of what to do. AskMe protocol usually involves removing the self-link but leaving the question if it's not just a LOOK AT ME post, and the PC/Mac font conversion question is valid, even if not asked in the spirit of AskMe.
posted by jessamyn at 10:04 AM on February 21, 2006

xmutex: "MeFi is like one big state of suspicion and fear these days."

I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five people that were known to the Secretary of Pancakes as being self-linkers and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the blue.
posted by Plutor at 10:07 AM on February 21, 2006

Tthanks for pointing it out, the link seems clumsy and added in an almost SEO way with the odd phrase being linked, but with it removed the person doesn't get anything out of it and the question seems valid and normal.
posted by mathowie at 10:08 AM on February 21, 2006

That was such a popular blog post back when it was new, how much more traffic can Mefi send his way? (A lot I guess). Anyway, I'd FPP his link he hadn't 'tainted' it. (Well, I wouldn't have anyway, because of my awesome lethargy and unwillingness to poke around the archives to see which free font links have been posted in the past and hence shouldn't be in said FPP).
posted by Firas at 10:10 AM on February 21, 2006

just watch him for the next self-link.
posted by puke & cry at 10:11 AM on February 21, 2006

For kicks, I'd like to point out that 'awesome lethargy' doesn't exist in usenet yet. Do I get a prize?
posted by Firas at 10:13 AM on February 21, 2006

I'm not so fussed about fonts. But can we please, please, please not use the term "OP"? I've no idea why this neologism bugs me more than all the others that get flung about, but it does. Is it really so much effort to type those extra letters?
posted by Len at 10:22 AM on February 21, 2006

Two keystrokes vs fourteen (And a space!) seems like more effort to me.

'Course, it's noon and I still haven't put my pants on...
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:27 AM on February 21, 2006

You understand the abbreviation, so it's not causing confusion, and you can't even articulate why it bothers you. And the rest of us should change our behavior...why?
posted by cribcage at 10:28 AM on February 21, 2006

OP?
posted by TimeFactor at 10:30 AM on February 21, 2006

You understand the abbreviation, so it's not causing confusion, and you can't even articulate why it bothers you. And the rest of us should change our behavior...why?

Point taken; though I meant I'm not sure why it bothers me more than other neologisms. The reason all of them bother me is maybe just being cranky about violence done to language for the sake of abbreviation and expediency. Maybe that's being stuffy and prissy about it, but it genuinely depresses me when English gets mangled like this for no real reason. (I'd say the same about any other languages, if I spoke them with anything approaching proficiency.) Yes, yes, it's the internet, it's not the hallowed pages of a paper of record, and I'm probably fighting a losing battle, but it'd be nice.

Time Factor: what does a very youthful Ron Howard have to do with OP? (I'm assuming this is some American TV thing.)
posted by Len at 10:45 AM on February 21, 2006

What cribcage said.
posted by languagehat at 10:45 AM on February 21, 2006

You can doubt as long as you want. I had a problem. I was looking for an answer. I don't need "links", I have enough, believe me. But if these links are useful - and God knows they are - then why shouldn't I present them to the MeFi-Community?
posted by vitaly friedman at 10:46 AM on February 21, 2006

I like how MoFi handles self-linkers. - goatdog

De-links the link and puts "Banned: self-linker" in the profile. Hmmm. - Gator

*dabs at tears* It's beautiful. So simple... so elegant...
posted by raedyn at 10:48 AM on February 21, 2006

Len: a very youthful Ron Howard played a character named Opie (pronounced OH-pee) on the Andy Griffith Show.
posted by heeeraldo at 10:48 AM on February 21, 2006

xmutex writes "MeFi is like one big state of suspicion and fear these days."

That's the way it most reminds me of my own life.
posted by OmieWise at 10:49 AM on February 21, 2006

The march of language continues apace, yes, good, right. "OP" is still somehow manifestly annoying, though. Gah. Blarg. I for one don't expect anyone to change just because I (or Len or anyone else) dislike[s]* it, but I do hope it dies off. 12 keystrokes is not really so many.

Len: OP => Opie. American TV thing indeed.

*what does "dislike" need to agree with, there? The singular 'I' or the plural parenthetical 'Len or anyone else'? I'm baffled.
posted by cortex at 10:52 AM on February 21, 2006

I don't need "links", I have enough, believe me.

...Then...Why self-link?
posted by Gator at 10:55 AM on February 21, 2006

Because he wants to turn up in search engines.

But if these links are useful - and God knows they are - then why shouldn't I present them to the MeFi-Community?

Because the MeFi community doesn't allow presentation of one's own work, unless it's significant enough to be relevant for the projects section. Do in Rome as Romans do, eh?
posted by Firas at 11:01 AM on February 21, 2006

I have enough, believe me. But if these links are useful - and God knows they are - then why shouldn't I present them to the MeFi-Community?
posted by vitaly friedman at 10:46 AM PST on February 21

because you're too fucking stupid to read the rules
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:16 AM on February 21, 2006

attaboy, vitaly! that's the old spirit! that's the pepper, there, boy! To hell with the rules of the site! You've got your own thing you're doing, and there's no reason I can think of why you should have to abide by the same rules everyone else does! I mean, really, there's an appreciable lack of free fonts on the internet and MetaFilter practically echoes with the cries of the font-deprived screaming, "Where, oh fucking where can I get 25 license free fonts that the creator of said fonts believes are 'best quality'?" It is clearly your right, nay, your responsibility to provide us with a link to that very thing! What would metafilter be like if everyone refrained from linking to their own awesome site whenever they felt like it? What, indeed!
posted by shmegegge at 11:21 AM on February 21, 2006 [1 favorite]

@Gator: I don't need "links", I have enough, believe me.

"...Then...Why self-link?"

Why not?
posted by vitaly friedman at 11:24 AM on February 21, 2006

vitaly friedman: nice fonts, seriously. That is no excuse to violate one of the very few rules this site has, and the most consistently enforced rule, no less.

Everyone recognizes the very good justifcations for disallowing self-linking.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:26 AM on February 21, 2006

Why not?

MetaFilter wiki page on self-linking.
posted by russilwvong at 11:30 AM on February 21, 2006

New rule: it's okay to self-link as long as English isn't your first language and if you may not get anything out of it with the link removed. That is a consistent application of the rules and I am glad that feigning ignorance is a valid defense. This is the reason that the number of self-links to the blue and green have been decreasing lately instead of increasing.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:31 AM on February 21, 2006

Why not?

You just don't get it, do you?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:31 AM on February 21, 2006

I don't need "links", I have enough, believe me.

you know, when someone says "believe me" or "trust me" or "honestly," it's a major red flag indicating that they're lying.
posted by shmegegge at 11:33 AM on February 21, 2006

"...Then...Why self-link?"

Why not?

Because it's against the rules and will get you banned from the community. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in the AskMe thread, and I'd suggest getting a feel for the place for a while.
posted by jessamyn at 11:35 AM on February 21, 2006

No, he gets it, Alvy.

The weird copy may because the guy isn't from the US/Canada, and I assumed English wasn't his first language.

So then there's the next question of what to do. AskMe protocol usually involves removing the self-link but leaving the question if it's not just a LOOK AT ME post, and the PC/Mac font conversion question is valid, even if not asked in the spirit of AskMe.
posted by jessamyn at 10:04 AM PST on February 21

Thanks for pointing it out, the link seems clumsy and added in an almost SEO way with the odd phrase being linked, but with it removed the person doesn't get anything out of it and the question seems valid and normal.
posted by mathowie at 10:08 AM PST on February 21

Act like fucking Mahir and all of a sudden no one gives a shit that you purposely broke the rules to promote your boring blog; I look forward to the Russian-language bestiality porn links on the front page in a year's time.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:37 AM on February 21, 2006

New rule: it's okay to self-link as long as English isn't your first language and if you may not get anything out of it with the link removed.

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse/trollish or you really don't understand the difference in magnitude between self-linking in AskMe and self-linking in MeFi, and the difference in how we approach those links. This is a consistent application of the way we handle self-linking here.
posted by jessamyn at 11:38 AM on February 21, 2006

Jessamyn, what happened here is that he got banned from MoFi for self-linking, realized it wouldn't fly on MeFi's blue but that he could probably slide it on by in the green with a fake question. That's what happened. I'm not trolling because I sincerely believe that's what he did, and I'm shocked that you haven't figured it out.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:40 AM on February 21, 2006

GOD KNOWS THESE LINKS ARE USEFUL!
posted by If I Had An Anus at 11:41 AM on February 21, 2006

I look forward to the Russian-language bestiality porn links on the front page in a year's time.

Why not, we've already got Japanese women breastfeeding cats?
posted by Pollomacho at 11:42 AM on February 21, 2006

All right, point taken.
posted by vitaly friedman at 11:45 AM on February 21, 2006

*puts away torch and pitchfork.*
posted by shmegegge at 11:46 AM on February 21, 2006

I'm with OC on this one. While the question is valid in the abstract, vitaly posed it here for the sole purpose of promoting his blog. How do I know? Vitaly asked the same question on his own blog, and acknowledged the answer, on January 24th.

If you read the article you'll see that I still haven't found a freeware which would do the same. And now read the post I've sen on Mi-Fi again. Do you see any difference?
posted by vitaly friedman at 11:49 AM on February 21, 2006

Since you aren't worried about the rules, why not just download a crack for the shareware?
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:52 AM on February 21, 2006

Thanks, my mistake. I'll keep it in mind. Sorry for the inconvience I unintentionally caused. The thread can be closed.

Btw: flame doesn't help, really.
@ shmegegge: you don't believe me? Believe Google.
posted by vitaly friedman at 11:54 AM on February 21, 2006

@sonofsamiam: well, maybe you would use a crack. I won't. That's make the difference.
posted by vitaly friedman at 11:55 AM on February 21, 2006

@sonofsamiam: well, maybe you would use a crack. I won't. That's makes the difference.
posted by vitaly friedman at 11:56 AM on February 21, 2006

Sorry for a double-post...

Aaaaa...

@sonofsamiam: well, maybe you would use a crack. I won't. That makes the difference.
posted by vitaly friedman at 11:59 AM on February 21, 2006

Thank god you fixed that—really punches up the rejoinder.
posted by cortex at 12:01 PM on February 21, 2006

Btw: flame doesn't help, really.
posted by cortex at 12:01 PM on February 21, 2006

> RESET POSTBOT (y/n): |
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:02 PM on February 21, 2006

vitaly friedman writes "You can doubt as long as you want. I had a problem. I was looking for an answer. I don't need 'links', I have enough, believe me. But if these links are useful - and God knows they are - then why shouldn't I present them to the MeFi-Community?"

And here I thought vitaly wasn't going to show up and make this call out worth while. Can't be a really good flame out though as he has only 15 posts, Many of which seem to be multiples.
posted by Mitheral at 12:08 PM on February 21, 2006

Because it's against the rules and will get you banned from the community.

He was banned from another site for doing the same thing, and here he retorts with a snotty, "Why not [self-link]?" I'm all for assuming good intent and affording people the benefit of the doubt, but this is ridiculous. You can lecture on the difference between MetaFilter and AskMe all day, but this guy's intent was clear and he deserves a hard ban.
posted by cribcage at 12:12 PM on February 21, 2006

MetaTalk: Flame doesn't help, really.
posted by S.C. at 12:15 PM on February 21, 2006

vitaly, I did google you, but that doesn't mean you're not out for more pagehits. what I believe is what your actions say. As it stands, your actions say that you're a selfish self-linker who doesn't care about mefites or the metafilter community. you want money from ad revenue, so you're spamming your blog everywhere you can. so no. I don't believe you. You're popular among font pros, great. All 2 of them. Now you want enough links to actually earn money off your blog, and you tried to abuse mefi to do it.
posted by shmegegge at 12:19 PM on February 21, 2006

I won't.

Then shell out the $45 for CrossFont.

Or is that what your ad-revenue was going towards?
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:27 PM on February 21, 2006

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the self-linking party? Please answer the question.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:38 PM on February 21, 2006

Some people are very concerned about the rising self-linking scourge.
posted by smackfu at 12:39 PM on February 21, 2006

you want money from ad revenue

Emm... Really? I don't think so.

Interesting, interesting. Just for your information: have you seen any ads on any of my pages?
posted by vitaly friedman at 12:40 PM on February 21, 2006

"You can lecture on the difference between MetaFilter and AskMe all day, but this guy's intent was clear and he deserves a hard ban."

He really deserves to just be smacked upside the head. Unfortunately, none of our arms are long enough.
posted by klangklangston at 12:43 PM on February 21, 2006

Meh.
posted by delmoi at 12:46 PM on February 21, 2006

If Jess dosn't care, I don't care. Fucking relax, jesus.
posted by delmoi at 12:52 PM on February 21, 2006

Relaxing doesn't help!
posted by cortex at 12:53 PM on February 21, 2006

I'm bewildered and slightly pissed.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:54 PM on February 21, 2006

fine, then you're just drawing attention to yourself. that totally makes it ok.
posted by shmegegge at 12:54 PM on February 21, 2006

Btw: flame doesn't help, really.
Doesn't help you, maybe, but it's what the rest of us live for.

There must be someone who lives close enough to give pretty much any self-linker a good whap up the side of the head. Two if they try to justify themeselves repeatedly when challenged.
posted by dg at 12:56 PM on February 21, 2006

Or, rather, I'm pissed and slightly baffled.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:57 PM on February 21, 2006

I no longer know what I am.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:58 PM on February 21, 2006

I don't know why you're mean to me.
When I call on the telephone.
And I don't know what you mean to me.
But I wanna turn you on, turn you up, figure you out. I wanna take you on.
posted by cortex at 1:17 PM on February 21, 2006 [1 favorite]

I AM OUTRAGED AT SOMETHING.
posted by JeffK at 1:17 PM on February 21, 2006

If he's from Roland, OK, we'd better hunt the bastard down.
posted by graventy at 1:23 PM on February 21, 2006

On the one hand, I Love a good pileon.

On the other hand I love seeing self-righteous fury squelched into impotence.

So it's really win/win for me on these self-linker callouts.
posted by delmoi at 1:25 PM on February 21, 2006

On the other other hand, I Love Tacos.
posted by cortex at 1:32 PM on February 21, 2006

I think we need a brief moment of silence for the greatest use of the blink tag ever. Maybe this is an old school trick and OC is way internet-hipper than me for knowing it, but damn did that make my day anyway.

Well done!

Oh, and, self linkers should go to hell! Or something. Carry on with the pile on. Don't want to interrupt the fun.
posted by heresiarch at 1:39 PM on February 21, 2006

We must establish some new rules that will cover this exact situation in the future because rules are the solution to all human problems.
posted by smackfu at 1:53 PM on February 21, 2006

AstroZombie:
(recovering from near spit-take) Thanks. Yep, still funny.
posted by desuetude at 1:56 PM on February 21, 2006

Since it's clear vitaly friedman should be banned, I'm going to carry on the pile-on on 'OP':- there is, by definition, only one bloody poster in any given thread on this site. Every one else participating is a commenter, so what on earth is the point of that 'O'?

(I have no idea why this gets on my wick so much, either.)
posted by jack_mo at 1:58 PM on February 21, 2006

Thank god someone else understands.

Resolved: from now on, 'OP' will be replaced by 'P'.
posted by cortex at 2:02 PM on February 21, 2006

How about FPPP (front page post poster), AMQA (AskMe question asker), and MTFWS (MetaTalk flame war starter)?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:07 PM on February 21, 2006

and MTLFS (MetaTalk LoveFest Starter)
posted by raedyn at 2:42 PM on February 21, 2006

Given the nature of this thread, might I also propose OLSLTWSCWAO?
posted by jack_mo at 2:59 PM on February 21, 2006

I'm going to carry on the pile-on on 'OP':- there is, by definition, only one bloody poster in any given thread on this site. Every one else participating is a commenter, so what on earth is the point of that 'O'?

In AskMe in particular: Because the OP is often cited to distinguish a response that is an attempt to answer the original question vs. responses which are comments in an ensuing derail-y (or just evolved) discussion.

occasional user of the dreaded OP
posted by desuetude at 3:35 PM on February 21, 2006

Um, I still don't know what "OP" might refer to:

Optimized Possum?

ontologically proved?

Octangular pretzel?
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:44 PM on February 21, 2006

make with the funny pictures.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 3:55 PM on February 21, 2006

In AskMe in particular: Because the OP is often cited to distinguish a response that is an attempt to answer the original question vs. responses which are comments in an ensuing derail-y (or just evolved) discussion.

Did you not read what jack_mo said? It's like Highlander, but without Queen on the soundtrack and Sean Connery spouting cod-philosophical nonsense: There can be only one. And anyway, what's wrong with using the person's name to distinguish them from subsequent commenters? I mean, really, it's not that much hassle. If you're going to take the time to answer someone's question on AskMe, the why not spend the time – ooh, half a second or so – it takes to note their name and type it out?*

*exemptions made for the likes of The Protocols Of The Elders Of Awesome, whose name takes at least seven seconds to type, because they're obviously deliberately and flagrantly awkward bastards.
posted by Len at 3:59 PM on February 21, 2006

desuetude said 'In AskMe in particular: Because the OP is often cited to distinguish a response that is an attempt to answer the original question vs. responses which are comments in an ensuing derail-y (or just evolved) discussion. '

Seriously, no need. Just say, 'the poster'. If anyone gets confused, they're too thick to be answering questions, on AskMe or elsewhere. It's like the base cretinism of the acronym FPP - where else, pray tell, do posts go but the front page? Is this an ITC?

Len said 'exemptions made for the likes of The Protocols Of The Elders Of Awesome'

Just call him Awesome: both an abbreviation and a description of that username. I wish it had always been possible to have spaces in a username here, then mine wouldn't be so mince, implication of mo' jerky dance moves notwithstanding.
posted by jack_mo at 5:31 PM on February 21, 2006

"...OC is way internet-hipper than me... "
Wait a minute, is it supposed to be OP or OC?
posted by klarck at 5:42 PM on February 21, 2006

I'll just avoid accidentally slipping an OP into the proceedings. Because calling them simple "the poster" makes it sound like they should be stapled to a utility pole advertising next week's gig.
posted by desuetude at 5:48 PM on February 21, 2006

I'd correct my typo, but I know that's a big peeve around here. Please assume I'm yearning for a "simply" instead of a "simple" up there.
posted by desuetude at 5:50 PM on February 21, 2006

I don't know, 'The Protocols Of The Elders Of Awesome' seems to get a lot of props for his "cool" username, but it seems pretty generic to me...
posted by Roger Dodger at 6:02 PM on February 21, 2006

Roger Dodger wins!

Oh, wait, I hate people who say that as well.

*commits Metacide*
posted by jack_mo at 6:16 PM on February 21, 2006

Did someone just get outed?
posted by loquacious at 6:19 PM on February 21, 2006

Only to those that didn't already know, loq.
posted by puke & cry at 6:21 PM on February 21, 2006

Now, wait a minute... Yes, 'OP' is a bad acronym. It doesn't contribute any value really. There's definitely not enough expressive value there to overcome the jarring, noisy quality inherent in its acronymic nature. It's annoying and should never be used. But FPP is a great acronym. The double 'P' is just works. Witness the popularity of Naughty by Nature's "OPP.0" Witness the the prevalence of 'PP' as a lone acronym. Double consonants in general make for good acronyms but it's particularly the 'P' which is so simple yet distinctive, powerful but concise. 'P' is the consonant par excellence. Second, the repetitiveness of the 'front page' is necessary to establish the exclusive ontological value of FPPs. These aren't any old 'posts', no sir, these are front page posts. There's also a rhythmic quality in 'FPP' that is rare with acronyms, the way it just rolls off your mind's tongue each letter the reinforcing the next. You shouldn't take this for granted. Acronyms like 'FPP' don't come in cereal boxes. Frankly, I'm shocked anybody would argue its continued use.
posted by nixerman at 6:23 PM on February 21, 2006

Who here likes OP?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:45 PM on February 21, 2006

OP is probably jarring because of The OPP. Your brain just wants to add that last P but can't.

Maybe we should just call Origional Posters OPPs?
posted by delmoi at 7:46 PM on February 21, 2006

Or PPPs, Page Posting Person.
posted by delmoi at 7:46 PM on February 21, 2006

Thank goodness the rules are being applied equally. This rule, at least. This case, at least.
posted by solid-one-love at 8:14 PM on February 21, 2006

I agree with you, nixerman, about the 'P' "which is so simple yet distinctive, powerful but concise," but may I submit to you the lowly 'K'? That, my dear, is a whimsical letter. 'K' is teasingly poignant yet has the wherewithall to laugh at itself.

Tough to work into a conversation, though--I'll grant you that. Tougher still to work into an acronym. But when you do--ah! You know you've done well.
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:31 PM on February 21, 2006

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