Linking Style March 13, 2006 4:11 PM Subscribe
This is about linking style.
Many folk on MeFi and other, somewhat geek-identified sites like kuro5hin have a linking style as follows:
1. Placing multiple links such that several consecutive words in a sentence each link to a different page
2. (somewhat following from #1) Links that bear no relation to the text they mark.
Here is a (made-up) example: "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics."
What is wrong here? The first link is well placed, but all the others are terrible. Firstly, logically, there is no reason why the word "several" should link to anything other than a page about the word "several". But what is worse than this is that the casual reader has no way to parse this sentence for information without clicking on each link. In this case the URLs are obvious, when hovering over the link in question, but many times the URLs are not so obvious.
Why not just use the much plainer, better style: "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics such as Sony, Samsung, Mouser, and LG."
Or if it's not intended to give the linked websites so much importance, you could simply say: "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics (examples 1, 2, 3, 4)."
Either of these would be a vast improvement. Discuss.
Many folk on MeFi and other, somewhat geek-identified sites like kuro5hin have a linking style as follows:
1. Placing multiple links such that several consecutive words in a sentence each link to a different page
2. (somewhat following from #1) Links that bear no relation to the text they mark.
Here is a (made-up) example: "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics."
What is wrong here? The first link is well placed, but all the others are terrible. Firstly, logically, there is no reason why the word "several" should link to anything other than a page about the word "several". But what is worse than this is that the casual reader has no way to parse this sentence for information without clicking on each link. In this case the URLs are obvious, when hovering over the link in question, but many times the URLs are not so obvious.
Why not just use the much plainer, better style: "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics such as Sony, Samsung, Mouser, and LG."
Or if it's not intended to give the linked websites so much importance, you could simply say: "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics (examples 1, 2, 3, 4)."
Either of these would be a vast improvement. Discuss.
Er--waffles?
posted by hototogisu at 4:18 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by hototogisu at 4:18 PM on March 13, 2006
Eh. Not as annoying as this style of one letter = one link.
posted by fixedgear at 4:18 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by fixedgear at 4:18 PM on March 13, 2006
Agreed. Those posts are annoying.
posted by Mars Saxman at 4:34 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Mars Saxman at 4:34 PM on March 13, 2006
I have no comment about the posting style, but I have an uncontrollable urge to go to Best Buy.
posted by crunchland at 4:34 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by crunchland at 4:34 PM on March 13, 2006
Pff.
posted by interrobang at 4:36 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by interrobang at 4:36 PM on March 13, 2006
Hmmm, viral marketing by BestBuy? I hear they sell PepsiBlue at the cash registers
Kidding aside, I agree it's an annoying way of linking which should be eschewed.
For future MeTa posts, you might consider having a shorter comment with [more inside]. If you do, be sure to compose the more inside in advance.
posted by JMOZ at 4:40 PM on March 13, 2006
Kidding aside, I agree it's an annoying way of linking which should be eschewed.
For future MeTa posts, you might consider having a shorter comment with [more inside]. If you do, be sure to compose the more inside in advance.
posted by JMOZ at 4:40 PM on March 13, 2006
What is wrong here? The first link is well placed, but all the others are terrible.
My god, you're dull.
posted by boo_radley at 4:47 PM on March 13, 2006
My god, you're dull.
posted by boo_radley at 4:47 PM on March 13, 2006
STFU.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 4:50 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by monju_bosatsu at 4:50 PM on March 13, 2006
Y'know what I hate? Posts that take up over 20 lines of space on my 1280X1024 to make a pointless point.
posted by eyeballkid at 4:51 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by eyeballkid at 4:51 PM on March 13, 2006
I have to say I agree with the splitpeasoup. Those kinds of links are slightly annoying, although not nearly as annoying as the 1 charachter 1 link type.
posted by matkline at 4:54 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by matkline at 4:54 PM on March 13, 2006
As my mother would say, "if this is all you have to worry about...."
Seriously, this is your first contribution to the site?
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:02 PM on March 13, 2006
Seriously, this is your first contribution to the site?
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:02 PM on March 13, 2006
Hello.
Welcome to the planet earth. You'll find that earth has other people besides yourself on it, so please consider these useful tips when engaging them either in person or on the internet.
1. People, as a rule, aren't out to satisfy you specifically.
1a. Some people may decide to specifically satisfy you if, in encountering you, they come to care about you. For more about caring about people, please see a source other than MetaFilter.
2. Some people, although the precise number of them is unknown, care to express themselves in ways that are more satisfying to them than they are to you.
2a. Some of these people become so obtuse that they are referred to as "Dadaists," a term derived from the latin word for "bullshit."
2b. Some of these people are just assholes.
3. Some people, and again the precise number of them is unknown, care to express themselves in ways that are more satisfying aesthetically than practically or logically.
3a. These people are called "artists," a term derived from the ancient greek word for "bullshit."
3b. Again, some of these people are just assholes.
3bi. Assholes are tricky. You never know who is one.
4. Generally, people don't tend to like being told how they may or may not express themselves.
4a. Some people exist as an exception to this rule. These people are known as "Parental Advocates," a term derived from the ancient aramaic phrase for "total refusal to accept accountability for anything."
5. When encountering people who fit the description in tip #4, if their mode of expressing themselves bothers you, it is advisable for you to just fucking deal.
Welcome to earth. I hope these tips are helpful in your development as someone who regularly deals with people.
posted by shmegegge at 5:08 PM on March 13, 2006 [1 favorite]
Welcome to the planet earth. You'll find that earth has other people besides yourself on it, so please consider these useful tips when engaging them either in person or on the internet.
1. People, as a rule, aren't out to satisfy you specifically.
1a. Some people may decide to specifically satisfy you if, in encountering you, they come to care about you. For more about caring about people, please see a source other than MetaFilter.
2. Some people, although the precise number of them is unknown, care to express themselves in ways that are more satisfying to them than they are to you.
2a. Some of these people become so obtuse that they are referred to as "Dadaists," a term derived from the latin word for "bullshit."
2b. Some of these people are just assholes.
3. Some people, and again the precise number of them is unknown, care to express themselves in ways that are more satisfying aesthetically than practically or logically.
3a. These people are called "artists," a term derived from the ancient greek word for "bullshit."
3b. Again, some of these people are just assholes.
3bi. Assholes are tricky. You never know who is one.
4. Generally, people don't tend to like being told how they may or may not express themselves.
4a. Some people exist as an exception to this rule. These people are known as "Parental Advocates," a term derived from the ancient aramaic phrase for "total refusal to accept accountability for anything."
5. When encountering people who fit the description in tip #4, if their mode of expressing themselves bothers you, it is advisable for you to just fucking deal.
Welcome to earth. I hope these tips are helpful in your development as someone who regularly deals with people.
posted by shmegegge at 5:08 PM on March 13, 2006 [1 favorite]
James Joyce's sentences are too long, and William Faulkner's too. Hemingway's too terse, and Shakespeare's English is too archaic. Where can I complain?
posted by orthogonality at 5:13 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by orthogonality at 5:13 PM on March 13, 2006
Yeah, I've only suggested this sort of interface three times. I'll keep doing it, though, because it's a really smart idea. Also, I'm really stupid. Those two observations are not contradictory.
All links should be isolated on a sidebar next to the post. Also the way I first suggested it; aggregated for those wanting to avoid double-posting or using a Lynx/PDA interface or who just plain can't hover over every single link or don't want to.
posted by Eideteker at 5:25 PM on March 13, 2006
All links should be isolated on a sidebar next to the post. Also the way I first suggested it; aggregated for those wanting to avoid double-posting or using a Lynx/PDA interface or who just plain can't hover over every single link or don't want to.
posted by Eideteker at 5:25 PM on March 13, 2006
Either of these would be a vast improvement. Discuss.
You're right, but that won't keep the vipers away.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:30 PM on March 13, 2006
You're right, but that won't keep the vipers away.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:30 PM on March 13, 2006
I can't recall, is shmegegge one of those "it's mathowie's sight, he can do what he wants" people?
Anyway.. Fantastic point splitpeasoup! Unfortunately, raising the issue on MetaTalk from time to time and politely letting people know that they could be more effective communicators are the only measures I can think of right now. Since we are 'a self-policing community' maybe it will be enough.. Meanwhile, learn to use, thanks.
posted by Chuckles at 5:33 PM on March 13, 2006
Anyway.. Fantastic point splitpeasoup! Unfortunately, raising the issue on MetaTalk from time to time and politely letting people know that they could be more effective communicators are the only measures I can think of right now. Since we are 'a self-policing community' maybe it will be enough.. Meanwhile, learn to use
posted by Chuckles at 5:33 PM on March 13, 2006
Oh, and <more inside>.. Apprently I have some learning to do myself.
posted by Chuckles at 5:39 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Chuckles at 5:39 PM on March 13, 2006
*salaams to shmegegge*
posted by languagehat at 5:43 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by languagehat at 5:43 PM on March 13, 2006
I love how people demand we discuss something and then take no part in the ensuing "discussion."
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:10 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:10 PM on March 13, 2006
All links should be isolated on a sidebar next to the post.
They are: you click the "Links" button up there at the top of the Opera panel, and shazam! all those links appear in a sidebar.
Problem solved, you can go home now.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:21 PM on March 13, 2006
They are: you click the "Links" button up there at the top of the Opera panel, and shazam! all those links appear in a sidebar.
Problem solved, you can go home now.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:21 PM on March 13, 2006
You joined just for this, huh?
No.
For future MeTa posts, you might consider having a shorter comment with [more inside].
Sorry, my mistake. Will do next time.
Seriously, this is your first contribution to the site?
Yes. What are most people's first contributions like, out of curiosity?
Welcome to the planet earth... People, as a rule, aren't out to satisfy you specifically.
People are, or should be, amenable to suggestions. People are welcome to abide by these suggestions, or not, just as they choose. People shouldn't take well-intentioned suggestions as being the imposition of some kind of mandatory law. Thanks for the welcome, though.
I love how people demand we discuss something and then take no part in the ensuing "discussion."
Sorry, I went out to walk the dog and only got back now.
posted by splitpeasoup at 6:51 PM on March 13, 2006
No.
For future MeTa posts, you might consider having a shorter comment with [more inside].
Sorry, my mistake. Will do next time.
Seriously, this is your first contribution to the site?
Yes. What are most people's first contributions like, out of curiosity?
Welcome to the planet earth... People, as a rule, aren't out to satisfy you specifically.
People are, or should be, amenable to suggestions. People are welcome to abide by these suggestions, or not, just as they choose. People shouldn't take well-intentioned suggestions as being the imposition of some kind of mandatory law. Thanks for the welcome, though.
I love how people demand we discuss something and then take no part in the ensuing "discussion."
Sorry, I went out to walk the dog and only got back now.
posted by splitpeasoup at 6:51 PM on March 13, 2006
Yes. What are most people's first contributions like, out of curiosity?
They vary, but don't tend to be long prescriptivist sermons in how things ought to be 'round here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:56 PM on March 13, 2006
They vary, but don't tend to be long prescriptivist sermons in how things ought to be 'round here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:56 PM on March 13, 2006
Why not just use the much plainer, better style: "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics such as Sony, Samsung, Mouser, and LG." Or if it's not intended to give the linked websites so much importance, you could simply say: "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics (examples 1, 2, 3, 4)."
But that's so...uninteresting. I know we hate people who try to be overly clever with their posts, but is it really that troublesome, the construct of "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics"? Would those two much more (in my opinion) sterile constructs be so much of an improvement? I ask this in all seriousness because many of the things I've gotten "Great post!" comments for have had this apparently "bad" structure.
On preview:
What are most people's first contributions like, out of curiosity?
Most people participate in the Blue or Green for a while before charging into the Grey with suggestions. That is, people tend to take part in the community itself before trying to take part in the running of it.
posted by Gator at 6:57 PM on March 13, 2006 [1 favorite]
But that's so...uninteresting. I know we hate people who try to be overly clever with their posts, but is it really that troublesome, the construct of "Best Buy stocks several brands of electronics"? Would those two much more (in my opinion) sterile constructs be so much of an improvement? I ask this in all seriousness because many of the things I've gotten "Great post!" comments for have had this apparently "bad" structure.
On preview:
What are most people's first contributions like, out of curiosity?
Most people participate in the Blue or Green for a while before charging into the Grey with suggestions. That is, people tend to take part in the community itself before trying to take part in the running of it.
posted by Gator at 6:57 PM on March 13, 2006 [1 favorite]
As part of our CEO's new TQA program, all posts will be required to be ISO 9001-compliant within the next 90 days. Please see your departmental heads for further information on the transitional period.
posted by Johnny Assay at 6:58 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Johnny Assay at 6:58 PM on March 13, 2006
Most people participate in the Blue or Green for a while before charging into the Grey with suggestions.
OK. I'll keep that in mind.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:02 PM on March 13, 2006
OK. I'll keep that in mind.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:02 PM on March 13, 2006
What are most people's first contributions like, out of curiosity?
Generally not complaints about how longtime users are doing things. I happen to agree with you, but you're going to rub people the wrong way by barging in and trying to tell people what to do.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:03 PM on March 13, 2006
Generally not complaints about how longtime users are doing things. I happen to agree with you, but you're going to rub people the wrong way by barging in and trying to tell people what to do.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:03 PM on March 13, 2006
splitpeasoup writes "People are, or should be, amenable to suggestions. People are welcome to abide by these suggestions, or not, just as they choose. People shouldn't take well-intentioned suggestions as being the imposition of some kind of mandatory law. Thanks for the welcome, though."
Have you read much MetaTalk? Because "amenable to suggestions" is almost never part of the equation. And, of course, not incidentally, your post comes across as much less of a suggestion than as a scolding command. Hence some of the responses.
posted by OmieWise at 7:03 PM on March 13, 2006
Have you read much MetaTalk? Because "amenable to suggestions" is almost never part of the equation. And, of course, not incidentally, your post comes across as much less of a suggestion than as a scolding command. Hence some of the responses.
posted by OmieWise at 7:03 PM on March 13, 2006
well splitpeasoup, since your first contribution to the site is a long-winded sermon on linking etiquette, you obviously have no idea your suggestions mean nothing and don't matter.
posted by puke & cry at 7:06 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by puke & cry at 7:06 PM on March 13, 2006
What are most people's first contributions like, out of curiosity?
Very, very meek. Or they should be, if they want to continue living with any dignity. Metafilter can be mean.
Please don't hurt me Metafilter
posted by MadamM at 7:06 PM on March 13, 2006
Very, very meek. Or they should be, if they want to continue living with any dignity. Metafilter can be mean.
Please don't hurt me Metafilter
posted by MadamM at 7:06 PM on March 13, 2006
I applaud your audacity. Post boldly!
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:14 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:14 PM on March 13, 2006
Splitpeasoup might suffer from an anal retentive personality.
Splitpeasoup might suffer from an anal retentive personality (1, 2, 3).
You know, he kind of has a point.
posted by LarryC at 7:35 PM on March 13, 2006
Splitpeasoup might suffer from an anal retentive personality (1, 2, 3).
You know, he kind of has a point.
posted by LarryC at 7:35 PM on March 13, 2006
To whom does the sockpuppet splitpeasoup belong to? And if it isn't a sockpuppet, damn look at the balls on that guy! He must have shaken the whole internets when he dropped his gargantuan balls out of the wheelbarrel trying to crack MetaFilter's floor.
As far as the one-link per letter, I only hate it when it is done in a way that you have no idea what the subject of the post is. I tend to only click on posts and links that strike my interest, and if I can't tell what a post is about, I kindly skip over it. I did it recently to make the point that the subject of my post is much talked about in a certain circle, and I wasn't in the mood to count to 40.
Oh yeah, splitpeasoup, if you like kuro5hin so much, why don't you go there and stay there, or wait until you at least contribute a little here. And any post that ends with the phrase "Discuss" always blows.
Is this some weird PepsiBlue shit for BestBuy or products that happen to be at that store. Did you really have to link to something of commercial interest 3 times? Why not Wikipedia entries?
posted by Mijo Bijo at 8:11 PM on March 13, 2006
As far as the one-link per letter, I only hate it when it is done in a way that you have no idea what the subject of the post is. I tend to only click on posts and links that strike my interest, and if I can't tell what a post is about, I kindly skip over it. I did it recently to make the point that the subject of my post is much talked about in a certain circle, and I wasn't in the mood to count to 40.
Oh yeah, splitpeasoup, if you like kuro5hin so much, why don't you go there and stay there, or wait until you at least contribute a little here. And any post that ends with the phrase "Discuss" always blows.
Is this some weird PepsiBlue shit for BestBuy or products that happen to be at that store. Did you really have to link to something of commercial interest 3 times? Why not Wikipedia entries?
posted by Mijo Bijo at 8:11 PM on March 13, 2006
you know, splitpeasoup, you happen to have as a name my favorite type of soup. maybe that's why I'm about to say what I'm about to say:
your response to my comment is completely reasonable. and you're right, there's nothing wrong with suggesting a different linking style. but can you see where your initial post seems less like a friendly suggestion and more like a school-marmish sermon? (yes, I mixed my metaphors. I'm a loner, dottie. a rebel.)
seriously. variety is the spice of life. sometimes this includes posting styles. frankly, I hate lengthy posts that explain everything you're about to read, and I also hate short ones that give no clue. But I would utterly despise a site where every link was the same legible boring tedium.
posted by shmegegge at 8:20 PM on March 13, 2006
your response to my comment is completely reasonable. and you're right, there's nothing wrong with suggesting a different linking style. but can you see where your initial post seems less like a friendly suggestion and more like a school-marmish sermon? (yes, I mixed my metaphors. I'm a loner, dottie. a rebel.)
seriously. variety is the spice of life. sometimes this includes posting styles. frankly, I hate lengthy posts that explain everything you're about to read, and I also hate short ones that give no clue. But I would utterly despise a site where every link was the same legible boring tedium.
posted by shmegegge at 8:20 PM on March 13, 2006
oh, and to whoever asked (I'm so lazy), yes, I have endorsed the "it's mathowie's site and he can do what he wants" viewpoint. but I have also criticised both admins, so take that how you will.
posted by shmegegge at 8:22 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by shmegegge at 8:22 PM on March 13, 2006
I guess it's whether or not you are aware or care about how hyperlinking is supposed to work. It's not correct to compare this to a purely stylistic choice because this medium is young and technical—a whole lot of what we're doing is intended to be, and is, useful.
A similar example would be sites that are all-Flash. If you think that all that matters is the writer's stylistic choice, then to be consistent you don't have an argument against all-Flash site. Of course there are many people who are consistent in this matter. But I suspect that some of the folks who dislike all Flash sites because they badly reduce the utility of the web are those defending non-contextual links.
I try to make my links be meaningful. But I often find it's difficult to do because the phrase that I want to link from is itself not that meaningful outside the context of the paragraph. If you care enough, I'm sure all such examples could be rewritten to solve the problem.
Anyway, this isn't a huge deal, but it does, to some degree, reduce the utility of the web.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:24 PM on March 13, 2006
A similar example would be sites that are all-Flash. If you think that all that matters is the writer's stylistic choice, then to be consistent you don't have an argument against all-Flash site. Of course there are many people who are consistent in this matter. But I suspect that some of the folks who dislike all Flash sites because they badly reduce the utility of the web are those defending non-contextual links.
I try to make my links be meaningful. But I often find it's difficult to do because the phrase that I want to link from is itself not that meaningful outside the context of the paragraph. If you care enough, I'm sure all such examples could be rewritten to solve the problem.
Anyway, this isn't a huge deal, but it does, to some degree, reduce the utility of the web.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:24 PM on March 13, 2006
Thanks, guys! I was thinking about a nice cup of warm milk to get me sleepy, but then I thought, "No. Wait. I'll just read this bit about posting protocol on MetaTalk."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:38 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:38 PM on March 13, 2006
if you like kuro5hin so much, why don't you go there
I said this linking style is something I have noticed on *both* these sites, and others as well. Are you deficient in reading comprehension?
Is this some weird PepsiBlue shit for BestBuy
I was initially going to link to a real MeFi post but decided not to (1) so as not to put any particular individual on the spot and (2) so I can exaggerate to make my point.
For the record, I don't care too much for Best Buy - they have gimmicky marketing, clueless employees, and you can almost always get better deals on the Net. I haven't been to one in years, and I don't have any intention of recommending them.
wait until you at least contribute a little here.
I've already heard and conceded this point.
In general:
I think at least some of the "mind your place, newb" remarks here are not without basis, and where they have been made politely and reasonably I have listened and agreed.
Your own diatribe, however, is neither polite nor reasonable.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:40 PM on March 13, 2006 [1 favorite]
I said this linking style is something I have noticed on *both* these sites, and others as well. Are you deficient in reading comprehension?
Is this some weird PepsiBlue shit for BestBuy
I was initially going to link to a real MeFi post but decided not to (1) so as not to put any particular individual on the spot and (2) so I can exaggerate to make my point.
For the record, I don't care too much for Best Buy - they have gimmicky marketing, clueless employees, and you can almost always get better deals on the Net. I haven't been to one in years, and I don't have any intention of recommending them.
wait until you at least contribute a little here.
I've already heard and conceded this point.
In general:
I think at least some of the "mind your place, newb" remarks here are not without basis, and where they have been made politely and reasonably I have listened and agreed.
Your own diatribe, however, is neither polite nor reasonable.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:40 PM on March 13, 2006 [1 favorite]
Most people participate in the Blue or Green for a while before charging into the Grey with suggestions. That is, people tend to take part in the community itself before trying to take part in the running of it.
They vary, but don't tend to be long prescriptivist sermons in how things ought to be 'round here.
Raising an issue in MeTa is not "trying to take part in the running of it [Metafilter]".
Why not just call him "nicky-fucking-new-guy" and be done with it?
posted by mlis at 8:48 PM on March 13, 2006
They vary, but don't tend to be long prescriptivist sermons in how things ought to be 'round here.
Raising an issue in MeTa is not "trying to take part in the running of it [Metafilter]".
Why not just call him "nicky-fucking-new-guy" and be done with it?
posted by mlis at 8:48 PM on March 13, 2006
your initial post seems less like a friendly suggestion and more like a school-marmish sermon
Fair enough, you may be right.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:50 PM on March 13, 2006
Fair enough, you may be right.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:50 PM on March 13, 2006
I think the name for what you're describing is Mystery Meat Navigation. What ever happened to using the title property on links?
posted by blue_beetle at 8:58 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by blue_beetle at 8:58 PM on March 13, 2006
your initial post seems less like a friendly suggestion and more like a school-marmish sermon
it's funny to read people reacting like this when one considers all the memorable flame wars, flame outs, vendettas and perpetual controversies that come through this site
it sounds like sylvester stallone crying because he lost his bunny slippers at the last motel
posted by pyramid termite at 9:01 PM on March 13, 2006
it's funny to read people reacting like this when one considers all the memorable flame wars, flame outs, vendettas and perpetual controversies that come through this site
it sounds like sylvester stallone crying because he lost his bunny slippers at the last motel
posted by pyramid termite at 9:01 PM on March 13, 2006
P.S I love it when people that have been members for a couple of months call out other new members and complain they haven't been here long enough to contribute something meaningful. Just because some one is new doesn't mean their ideas are not valid, they might need help conforming to Metafilter's style, but a good idea is still a good idea, or atleast worthy of discussion, assuming no element of surprise of course.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:04 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by blue_beetle at 9:04 PM on March 13, 2006
P.P.S (on preview) using P.P.S is a dumb idea, I recommend no one use it from now on. Go Pancakes!
posted by blue_beetle at 9:05 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by blue_beetle at 9:05 PM on March 13, 2006
blue_beetle: This guy isn't even a n00b, he's a stranger. I'm a n00b, but at least I have a history on metafilter that people can look up if they like. When I made my comment he hadn't made a single comment on the blue (he's since made two within the last 1-1/2 hours). And he hasn't posted a single link to the blue, but feels that he is some how qualified to criticize other people who have posted links to the blue. I'm sorry, but that's bullshit.
Your own diatribe, however, is neither polite nor reasonable.
splitpeasoup, with all sincerety and politeness, please STFU! Is that reasonable enough?
I'm sure you're a nice guy and all (how would I know, you haven't really contributed here, have you?), but you really shouldn't make your first contribution to MetaFilter a critique of other user's posts.
posted by Mijo Bijo at 9:35 PM on March 13, 2006
Your own diatribe, however, is neither polite nor reasonable.
splitpeasoup, with all sincerety and politeness, please STFU! Is that reasonable enough?
I'm sure you're a nice guy and all (how would I know, you haven't really contributed here, have you?), but you really shouldn't make your first contribution to MetaFilter a critique of other user's posts.
posted by Mijo Bijo at 9:35 PM on March 13, 2006
I recognize the impulse, sweetpea, but I endeavor to control it.
posted by squirrel at 9:51 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by squirrel at 9:51 PM on March 13, 2006
Why not just call him "nicky-fucking-new-guy" and be done with it?
Primarily because I don't know what that means.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:52 PM on March 13, 2006
Primarily because I don't know what that means.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:52 PM on March 13, 2006
"Either of these would be a vast improvement. Discuss.
You're right, but that won't keep the vipers away."
No, he's wrong, and here's why:
First off, any newspaper copy editor worth his or her salt will tell you that the goal is to be as brief as possible while still being clear. While I don't hold the web to any real stylesheet, there is both a real comparison to be made between blog posting and wire writing, and a tendency in language to seek the downhill path.
Further, the examples stand in for the whole— there is no literate person who would mistake the meaning of that "several brands of electronics" or who wouldn't understand how the metonymy functions.
So instead, we've got a complaint with the linguistic authority of one over ending sentences in prepositions put forward by someone who at best is trying to institutionalize their picayune pedantry and at worst trying to score cheap amiright-amiright points from a community they just wandered into.
posted by klangklangston at 10:03 PM on March 13, 2006
You're right, but that won't keep the vipers away."
No, he's wrong, and here's why:
First off, any newspaper copy editor worth his or her salt will tell you that the goal is to be as brief as possible while still being clear. While I don't hold the web to any real stylesheet, there is both a real comparison to be made between blog posting and wire writing, and a tendency in language to seek the downhill path.
Further, the examples stand in for the whole— there is no literate person who would mistake the meaning of that "several brands of electronics" or who wouldn't understand how the metonymy functions.
So instead, we've got a complaint with the linguistic authority of one over ending sentences in prepositions put forward by someone who at best is trying to institutionalize their picayune pedantry and at worst trying to score cheap amiright-amiright points from a community they just wandered into.
posted by klangklangston at 10:03 PM on March 13, 2006
"So instead, we've got a complaint with the linguistic authority of one over ending sentences in prepositions put forward by someone who at best is trying to institutionalize their picayune pedantry and at worst trying to score cheap amiright-amiright points from a community they just wandered into."
Yeah, write like klangklansgston.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:49 PM on March 13, 2006
Yeah, write like klangklansgston.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:49 PM on March 13, 2006
Fuck art, let's dance!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:54 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:54 PM on March 13, 2006
Art dance, let's fuck!
posted by five fresh fish at 11:42 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 11:42 PM on March 13, 2006
Picayune is the greatest word in the English language.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:01 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:01 AM on March 14, 2006
This has got to be one worst starts of a MeFi career ever. Well done, soupy.
posted by keijo at 12:49 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by keijo at 12:49 AM on March 14, 2006
MetaFilter: Trying to institutionalize picayune pedantry.
posted by fixedgear at 2:20 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by fixedgear at 2:20 AM on March 14, 2006
Raising an issue in MeTa is not "trying to take part in the running of it [Metafilter]".
Oh, come on. Look at how he phrased his "suggestion": telling people who put links inside words that it's "wrong," "terrible," not "logical."
Just because some one is new doesn't mean their ideas are not valid, they might need help conforming to Metafilter's style, but a good idea is still a good idea, or atleast worthy of discussion
Sure, a good idea is a good idea (I'm not seeing it at all in this case, but whatever). But when you join a community, why not, er, join the community and participate in the community and get a feel for the community before you start making suggestions for how this several-years-old community should change? At least if he had made a few comments in the Blue and/or the Green first, people might not be reacting so strongly to his presentation and might have been more inclined to discuss the idea, rather than him.
Say you worked at your job for six years and were really happy there. Then one day a new person was hired (a subordinate like yourself, not a new manager), and on their very first day, before they've even bothered to come up to the water cooler to meet and greet everybody, they just stood up in the middle of the cubicles and announced, "Wow, you people should really do [whatever] a different way, because this is just terrible."
posted by Gator at 4:20 AM on March 14, 2006
Oh, come on. Look at how he phrased his "suggestion": telling people who put links inside words that it's "wrong," "terrible," not "logical."
Just because some one is new doesn't mean their ideas are not valid, they might need help conforming to Metafilter's style, but a good idea is still a good idea, or atleast worthy of discussion
Sure, a good idea is a good idea (I'm not seeing it at all in this case, but whatever). But when you join a community, why not, er, join the community and participate in the community and get a feel for the community before you start making suggestions for how this several-years-old community should change? At least if he had made a few comments in the Blue and/or the Green first, people might not be reacting so strongly to his presentation and might have been more inclined to discuss the idea, rather than him.
Say you worked at your job for six years and were really happy there. Then one day a new person was hired (a subordinate like yourself, not a new manager), and on their very first day, before they've even bothered to come up to the water cooler to meet and greet everybody, they just stood up in the middle of the cubicles and announced, "Wow, you people should really do [whatever] a different way, because this is just terrible."
posted by Gator at 4:20 AM on March 14, 2006
Assignment: Get an account on a highly trafficked website with many, many diverse users, and figure out a way to make a name for yourself as quickly as possible. (Example)
posted by crunchland at 5:12 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by crunchland at 5:12 AM on March 14, 2006
"So instead, we've got a complaint with the linguistic authority of one over ending sentences in prepositions put forward by someone who at best is trying to institutionalize their picayune pedantry and at worst trying to score cheap amiright-amiright points from a community they just wandered into."
It may only be March but I'm ready to give out my sentence of the year award.
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:22 AM on March 14, 2006
It may only be March but I'm ready to give out my sentence of the year award.
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:22 AM on March 14, 2006
all posts should be in iambic pentameter
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:33 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:33 AM on March 14, 2006
FWIW splitpeasoup, I think you have a decent point and have handled the fallout from this thread with dignity. I non-sarcastically look forward to your first FPP.
posted by teleskiving at 5:33 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by teleskiving at 5:33 AM on March 14, 2006
Say you worked at your job for six years and were really happy there. Then one day a new person was hired (a subordinate like yourself, not a new manager), and on their very first day, before they've even bothered to come up to the water cooler to meet and greet everybody, they just stood up in the middle of the cubicles and announced, "Wow, you people should really do [whatever] a different way, because this is just terrible."
Would you literally tell that person to shut the fuck up (I know that wasn't you) ? Probably at worst you would tell them that they might want to wait till they've learned where the bathroom is before making pronouncements like that, right?
posted by teleskiving at 5:46 AM on March 14, 2006
Would you literally tell that person to shut the fuck up (I know that wasn't you) ? Probably at worst you would tell them that they might want to wait till they've learned where the bathroom is before making pronouncements like that, right?
posted by teleskiving at 5:46 AM on March 14, 2006
splitpeasoup, welcome to Metafilter. I can already tell you're going to fit in just fine here.
Have fun!
posted by rocketman at 6:33 AM on March 14, 2006
Have fun!
posted by rocketman at 6:33 AM on March 14, 2006
Probably at worst you would tell them that they might want to wait till they've learned where the bathroom is before making pronouncements like that, right?
I'd immediately begin a quiet campaign of sabotaging their work with the eventual aim of seeing them fired, homeless and destitute. Unfortunately, that doesn't work here.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:48 AM on March 14, 2006
I'd immediately begin a quiet campaign of sabotaging their work with the eventual aim of seeing them fired, homeless and destitute. Unfortunately, that doesn't work here.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:48 AM on March 14, 2006
"Would you literally tell that person to shut the fuck up ...?
Yeah.
If I thought I could kick his ass.
And I think I can kick anyone's ass.
Actual results may vary
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:52 AM on March 14, 2006
Yeah.
If I thought I could kick his ass.
And I think I can kick anyone's ass.
Actual results may vary
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:52 AM on March 14, 2006
I think at least some of the "mind your place, newb" remarks here are not without basis, and where they have been made politely and reasonably I have listened and agreed.
Dude. What a mensch. Is there a way we can combine the words "mensch" and "newb?"
Newsch.
posted by scarabic at 6:53 AM on March 14, 2006
Dude. What a mensch. Is there a way we can combine the words "mensch" and "newb?"
Newsch.
posted by scarabic at 6:53 AM on March 14, 2006
While we're on the subject of helpful suggestions, all y'all might want to invest in a few breath mints. Seriously.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:14 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:14 AM on March 14, 2006
Sometimes reading MeTa threads makes me think there is a contingent who always checks user # and/or posting history before deciding whether how to respond, rather than considering the merits of the point the poster is attempting to make. If this suspicion is correct, I think that's very petty and sad.
posted by raedyn at 8:16 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by raedyn at 8:16 AM on March 14, 2006
You only feel safe in saying so because you've been a member since July 19, 2000.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:36 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:36 AM on March 14, 2006
You're probably right, Astro Zombie If I was new here, I would be smartest to not have said that lest I be jumped upon. Not that being an oldtimer makes one immune to attack, but it is less likely. But just because one has a large number on mouse over, does that make their contributions less valid or worthy of consideration? Some people seem to think so, and I submit that attitude is a load of crap.
posted by raedyn at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by raedyn at 9:31 AM on March 14, 2006
This is not about this person having a high user number. This is about the hubris of a brand new user coming into a community and somehow suggesting that what they're doing is all wrong, and that he somehow knows best.
posted by crunchland at 10:33 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by crunchland at 10:33 AM on March 14, 2006
raedyn: Bingo.
I've been a news writer, a web designer, and a member of MeFi since 2001. Am I qualified to propose that "mystery meat navigation" generally sucks and should be avoided? I'd go even further and say that if I was moderating, I'd kill any front-page post that used it.
crunchland: This is about the hubris of a brand new user coming into a community and somehow suggesting that what they're doing is all wrong, and that he somehow knows best.
The set of users who read frequently and rarely or never post are certainly members of this community, the behavior of mystery meat navigation is all wrong (by any standard you look at it), and it certainly looks like he knows best.
So the real question is, do we have a better way than scolding for keeping crap posts that don't provide a clear separation between navigation links off the front page?
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:56 AM on March 14, 2006
I've been a news writer, a web designer, and a member of MeFi since 2001. Am I qualified to propose that "mystery meat navigation" generally sucks and should be avoided? I'd go even further and say that if I was moderating, I'd kill any front-page post that used it.
crunchland: This is about the hubris of a brand new user coming into a community and somehow suggesting that what they're doing is all wrong, and that he somehow knows best.
The set of users who read frequently and rarely or never post are certainly members of this community, the behavior of mystery meat navigation is all wrong (by any standard you look at it), and it certainly looks like he knows best.
So the real question is, do we have a better way than scolding for keeping crap posts that don't provide a clear separation between navigation links off the front page?
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:56 AM on March 14, 2006
So instead, we've got a complaint with the linguistic authority of one over ending sentences in prepositions put forward by someone who at best is trying to institutionalize their picayune pedantry and at worst trying to score cheap amiright-amiright points from a community they just wandered into. posted by klangklangston
I think I just felt my heart skip a beat. Either the cold medicine is affecting me in unusual ways, or I've just had the neuroprogrammer side of my brain massaged. Either way, I think I may adore klangklangston and would like to read his brochure.
As to the "suggestions" by splitpeasoup, who is in all likelyhood a sockpuppet, I suggest that they were put forward in a such a way as to make passive aggressive trolls under linguistic bridges everywhere wriggle with jealousy.
Not only is it fairly viral, even if unintentional, it's still going to bump the google count of those sites, it was phrased in such a way that the reaction it received could be the only reaction that could be expected.
It was semantically loaded. A few examples:
*but all the others are terrible
*Firstly, logically, there is no reason
*But what is worse
*no way to parse
*Why not just use
*much plainer, better style
*Either of these would be a vast improvement.
*Discuss.
The entire thing is written to get a rise out of the reader...which he/she did. I believe, dear MetaFilter, that you may have been punked.
posted by dejah420 at 10:57 AM on March 14, 2006
I think I just felt my heart skip a beat. Either the cold medicine is affecting me in unusual ways, or I've just had the neuroprogrammer side of my brain massaged. Either way, I think I may adore klangklangston and would like to read his brochure.
As to the "suggestions" by splitpeasoup, who is in all likelyhood a sockpuppet, I suggest that they were put forward in a such a way as to make passive aggressive trolls under linguistic bridges everywhere wriggle with jealousy.
Not only is it fairly viral, even if unintentional, it's still going to bump the google count of those sites, it was phrased in such a way that the reaction it received could be the only reaction that could be expected.
It was semantically loaded. A few examples:
*but all the others are terrible
*Firstly, logically, there is no reason
*But what is worse
*no way to parse
*Why not just use
*much plainer, better style
*Either of these would be a vast improvement.
*Discuss.
The entire thing is written to get a rise out of the reader...which he/she did. I believe, dear MetaFilter, that you may have been punked.
posted by dejah420 at 10:57 AM on March 14, 2006
The only thing I think is negatively affected by this is search engine / automated parsing stuff. I have no problem reading this style of post, as a human with intuitive reasoning powers.
posted by knave at 12:51 PM on March 14, 2006
posted by knave at 12:51 PM on March 14, 2006
splitpeasoup ... is in all likelyhood a sockpuppet
I've already mentioned above that as far as I'm concerned, said purveyor of electronic goods sucks, and I've even mentioned why. Can we stop the ridiculous corporate-shill allegations now?
posted by splitpeasoup at 1:29 PM on March 14, 2006
I've already mentioned above that as far as I'm concerned, said purveyor of electronic goods sucks, and I've even mentioned why. Can we stop the ridiculous corporate-shill allegations now?
posted by splitpeasoup at 1:29 PM on March 14, 2006
splitpeasoup, the "sockpuppet" allegation is not a suggestion that you are a shill for Best Buy, but rather that you are not you at all but merely a spare account for some other established user. That you don't know that is an argument for your own authenticity (and painful-learning-period newness, of course).
For what it's worth, I don't see much merit in the allegation.
Though, of course, if you were a savvy user's sockpuppet, you could make no wiser tactical decision than to display through your statements a failure to understand the tradition of sockpuppetry on Metafilter. So, in a sense, your defense vis-a-vis Best Buy is an indictment insofar as it's just what the puppetmaster would say!
But I'm an optimist and you seem like an okay person. I don't think you're a sockpuppet—and I don't have a problem with polite (if occasionally headstrong) sockpuppets who can admit when they're wrong and turn the other cheek when folks get nasty.
posted by cortex at 4:42 PM on March 14, 2006
For what it's worth, I don't see much merit in the allegation.
Though, of course, if you were a savvy user's sockpuppet, you could make no wiser tactical decision than to display through your statements a failure to understand the tradition of sockpuppetry on Metafilter. So, in a sense, your defense vis-a-vis Best Buy is an indictment insofar as it's just what the puppetmaster would say!
But I'm an optimist and you seem like an okay person. I don't think you're a sockpuppet—and I don't have a problem with polite (if occasionally headstrong) sockpuppets who can admit when they're wrong and turn the other cheek when folks get nasty.
posted by cortex at 4:42 PM on March 14, 2006
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posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:14 PM on March 13, 2006