Snark fight in AskMe thread. April 4, 2006 6:06 AM Subscribe
and it was also totally appropriate for him to response with "fucktards." sheesh. thin skin much?
posted by spiderwire at 6:13 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by spiderwire at 6:13 AM on April 4, 2006
Where's anyone do that?
posted by cillit bang at 6:16 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by cillit bang at 6:16 AM on April 4, 2006
obi did it in the italicized letters of his reply. I removed the comments that were just snarky back and forth with him about his original response.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:18 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:18 AM on April 4, 2006
Are you going to delete Cribcage and Chasfile's pointless piling on?
posted by cillit bang at 6:20 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by cillit bang at 6:20 AM on April 4, 2006
People objected to the authoritative tone of the answer, if he'd just said "apparently it stands for..." or "I think it stands for..." we wouldn't be having this MetaTalk thread. For what its worth, I agree that the reaction was a bit strong.
posted by teleskiving at 6:22 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by teleskiving at 6:22 AM on April 4, 2006
Okay, there was no need for cribcage to come on that strong. It sounds like he's got some pent-up frustration from other threads and obiwanwasabi happened to get in the way.
That said, I always appreciate it when AskMe responders explain their responses. In a perfect world, obiwanwasabi would have let us know how he arrived at his answer. But in a perfect world, cribcage would have made a gentle suggestion to that effect instead of being a dick.
(There. Does that cover it?)
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:22 AM on April 4, 2006
That said, I always appreciate it when AskMe responders explain their responses. In a perfect world, obiwanwasabi would have let us know how he arrived at his answer. But in a perfect world, cribcage would have made a gentle suggestion to that effect instead of being a dick.
(There. Does that cover it?)
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:22 AM on April 4, 2006
While we're on the topic of AskMe threads going to hell, 35664 is in dire shape.
posted by onalark at 6:28 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by onalark at 6:28 AM on April 4, 2006
I just go tback from 35664, you're right it was messy. And yeah cillit bang, I got those two also. In short, obiwansabi posted the comment that is still in the thread, a few people piled on his answer saying that it was 1) wrong and 2) a wild ass guess. He took offense replying with a hidden fucktards message and then we all wound up here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:31 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:31 AM on April 4, 2006
35664 certainly was a mess and I've been biting my tongue all morning not to reply against AskMe guidelines but now it's come up here (and in line with jessamyn's in-thread suggestion)
oaf: What an absolutely obnoxious arsehole, can't we have a guideline about asking questions purely for self-validation where any constructively offered comment is dismissed out of hand?
posted by biffa at 7:06 AM on April 4, 2006
oaf: What an absolutely obnoxious arsehole, can't we have a guideline about asking questions purely for self-validation where any constructively offered comment is dismissed out of hand?
posted by biffa at 7:06 AM on April 4, 2006
As an independent observer, I thought there was plenty of blame to go around for inappropriate behavior in the thread.
posted by onalark at 7:18 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by onalark at 7:18 AM on April 4, 2006
People seem not to be at all interested in solving the problem. Just accepting that the problem is there and sucking it up isn't much of an answer, however many times the advice is repeated.
AskMe is better than this. Sometimes.
posted by NinjaPirate at 7:30 AM on April 4, 2006
AskMe is better than this. Sometimes.
posted by NinjaPirate at 7:30 AM on April 4, 2006
Yeah, it's not been good for AskMe today. 35664 was not good, and I agree that obiwanwasabi did a good job in trying to answer the question at hand. Why the snarks?
AskMe is for helping. Bless those who try.
posted by keijo at 8:50 AM on April 4, 2006
AskMe is for helping. Bless those who try.
posted by keijo at 8:50 AM on April 4, 2006
The response was completely out of proportion, of course, but I really wish people wouldn't do what obiwan did there - it's as if some users are compelled to come into every Askme thread and post speculation and outright wild guesses as to the answer for the sake of saying something. It'd be nice, in situations where the question obviously has one correct answer and there's little scope for alternatives, if people didn't post 'answers' unless they were really certain and had checked they were right.
posted by terpsichoria at 8:52 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by terpsichoria at 8:52 AM on April 4, 2006
oaf's question is a perfect example of how you need to phrase things as neutrally as possible. When he writes stuff like "you've got to be trying to impress someone by carrying around huge denominations like that." well, its not really relevant to the question - its a whiny aside and naturally people respond to that.
posted by vacapinta at 8:53 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by vacapinta at 8:53 AM on April 4, 2006
oh and obwanwasabi's answer was fine - I can see where the confusion came from and it happens sometimes. Personally, answers like the one from bitdamaged, which really add not enough useful information to justify hitting the "post" button are the type of responses that bug me.
posted by vacapinta at 8:59 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by vacapinta at 8:59 AM on April 4, 2006
I really wish people wouldn't do what obiwan did there
But I don't think he did anything wrong. He had no way of knowing that his answer wasn't the correct one. If you thought (as I did) that camera manufacturers just made up those file names, speculating as to way they chose those numbers makes perfect sense. It's only when you find out there's an industry standard regulating such things that you know there is a definitive answer.
posted by cillit bang at 9:01 AM on April 4, 2006
But I don't think he did anything wrong. He had no way of knowing that his answer wasn't the correct one. If you thought (as I did) that camera manufacturers just made up those file names, speculating as to way they chose those numbers makes perfect sense. It's only when you find out there's an industry standard regulating such things that you know there is a definitive answer.
posted by cillit bang at 9:01 AM on April 4, 2006
terpsichoria, with all due respect I disagree. First of all, AskMe is not populated by the same people all the time answering with "outright wild guesses for the sake of saying something". It is about trying to help somebody for no profit whatsoever, and I think obiwanwasib's explanation of he did as research for the question was perfectly valid. Why not? I don't think anybody coming to AskMe for answers should expect to get an expert straight away. That's why we have the endless IANALs and what-not.
posted by keijo at 9:02 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by keijo at 9:02 AM on April 4, 2006
Okay, apperantly the thread has been cleaned up, because I have no idea what's going on.
posted by delmoi at 9:06 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by delmoi at 9:06 AM on April 4, 2006
Looking at it again, cillit, you're right - obiwan's answer there isn't really an example of the kind of answer-for-answering's-sake that turns up and bugs me occasionally on Askme (the sort of thing that Jessamyn called 'male answer syndrome' in a Metatalk thread somewhere). It'd be nice if he hadn't presented it in such an authoritative way, but that's hardly a big deal. Sorry, obiwan!
So, um... yeah. Wow, it's awfully grey in here, isn't it?
posted by terpsichoria at 9:41 AM on April 4, 2006
So, um... yeah. Wow, it's awfully grey in here, isn't it?
posted by terpsichoria at 9:41 AM on April 4, 2006
I believe the best thing you can do for this group is to leave it and never come back. That would do wonders towards solving the problem that their box office manager is a judgemental prick who hates people.
Delmoi, this is an example of part of a comment I removed from 35664 about five minutes ago, if that was the thread you were wondering about. I summed up what happened in the original thread in question in this comment.
I didn't invent the term Male Answer Syndrome, I just think it is a convenient shorthand. We do have the rare woman who does this here, but it's pretty unusual but you see a few guys doing it here pretty frequently.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:19 AM on April 4, 2006
Delmoi, this is an example of part of a comment I removed from 35664 about five minutes ago, if that was the thread you were wondering about. I summed up what happened in the original thread in question in this comment.
I didn't invent the term Male Answer Syndrome, I just think it is a convenient shorthand. We do have the rare woman who does this here, but it's pretty unusual but you see a few guys doing it here pretty frequently.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:19 AM on April 4, 2006
hrm. i hadn't heard that term; it seems to play to a negative stereotype. really i wonder what proportion of AskMe answers come from men in the first place.
i don't think anyone would like it if dios started using "Liberal Post Syndrome" as a shorthand. just sayin'.
posted by spiderwire at 10:27 AM on April 4, 2006
i don't think anyone would like it if dios started using "Liberal Post Syndrome" as a shorthand. just sayin'.
posted by spiderwire at 10:27 AM on April 4, 2006
i wonder what proportion of AskMe answers come from men in the first place.
To do the study correctly, you'd have to be able to figure out the ratio of AskMe posts by men to the ratio by women and then you'd have to figure out the ratio of non-helpful answers from each gender (doing some extra math for deleted comments, which in AskMe are almost always -- 90% 95%? -- by men) and then compare.
Mathowie introduced the term and the problem as it's seen on MetaFilter about four years ago.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:48 AM on April 4, 2006
To do the study correctly, you'd have to be able to figure out the ratio of AskMe posts by men to the ratio by women and then you'd have to figure out the ratio of non-helpful answers from each gender (doing some extra math for deleted comments, which in AskMe are almost always -- 90% 95%? -- by men) and then compare.
Mathowie introduced the term and the problem as it's seen on MetaFilter about four years ago.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:48 AM on April 4, 2006
Unfortunately, Matt's link in that post is broken, but it appears that "Male Answer Syndrome" is a clinical term? How interesting; I'll have to go look into this later.
posted by spiderwire at 11:04 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by spiderwire at 11:04 AM on April 4, 2006
For the record, I didn't see anyone post, "Fuck you for trying to be helpful." My comment didn't include profanity or name-calling. I didn't see whatever happened afterward.
Jessamyn: You were right to delete my comment. No objection. But as long as you had the clippers out, why did you leave the "answer" that caused the derailment? We've established that it's wrong. Why didn't you cut that whole branch and just leave the question with its correct answer?
posted by cribcage at 11:13 AM on April 4, 2006
Jessamyn: You were right to delete my comment. No objection. But as long as you had the clippers out, why did you leave the "answer" that caused the derailment? We've established that it's wrong. Why didn't you cut that whole branch and just leave the question with its correct answer?
posted by cribcage at 11:13 AM on April 4, 2006
"Fuck you for trying to be helpful" should be AskMefi's official tagline
and jessamyn, without Male Answer Syndrome MetaFilter would have half the traffic it's having now
posted by matteo at 11:16 AM on April 4, 2006
and jessamyn, without Male Answer Syndrome MetaFilter would have half the traffic it's having now
posted by matteo at 11:16 AM on April 4, 2006
because it was clarified and corrected later in the thread, making it a useful source of information; note also that another user mentioned that they had made a similar mistake.
to say nothing of spawning this discussion, that removing the comment would reduce the thread to incoherency, etc.
posted by spiderwire at 11:18 AM on April 4, 2006
to say nothing of spawning this discussion, that removing the comment would reduce the thread to incoherency, etc.
posted by spiderwire at 11:18 AM on April 4, 2006
FWIW, I think some people have a hard-on not just for being correct, but for being seen as being correct. They're just as concerned with making a name for themselves here as they are with trying to contribute to the topics at hand. I don't think that's avoidable in large, popular discussion forums. It happens often in the blue and the gray too, but in the green it's especially worthy of a MeTa call-out because the ensuing bitching is a clear violation of what is acceptable to post there. We all should know by now that you can't expect to land a jab without someone standing up and punching back.
Furthermore, I think that arriving at an answer often involves a process -- one that isn't necesarrily "pollution" when it happens in an AskMe thread. That's where the "best answer" checkmarks can be really valuable.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I'd like to add that if, before ever clicking the post button, everybody stepped so gingerly around here that they always checked and rechecked their AskMe answers for correctness, their FPPs for the possibility that they might have already been posted once four years ago, or their snark to make sure it wasn't going to cause any collateral damage, then the signal to noise ratio would be much higher, but at the expense of the overall strength of the signal itself.
Some great advice that edgeways posted a while back is,
"1. Take a deep breath.
2. Realize that you're groovy.
3. Be groovy."
Or, perhaps more succinctly, just don't be a dick.
posted by Buzz at 11:53 AM on April 4, 2006
Furthermore, I think that arriving at an answer often involves a process -- one that isn't necesarrily "pollution" when it happens in an AskMe thread. That's where the "best answer" checkmarks can be really valuable.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I'd like to add that if, before ever clicking the post button, everybody stepped so gingerly around here that they always checked and rechecked their AskMe answers for correctness, their FPPs for the possibility that they might have already been posted once four years ago, or their snark to make sure it wasn't going to cause any collateral damage, then the signal to noise ratio would be much higher, but at the expense of the overall strength of the signal itself.
Some great advice that edgeways posted a while back is,
"1. Take a deep breath.
2. Realize that you're groovy.
3. Be groovy."
Or, perhaps more succinctly, just don't be a dick.
posted by Buzz at 11:53 AM on April 4, 2006
why did you leave the "answer" that caused the derailment?
Because we don't remove answers that are wrong. In this case, obi actually corrected himself in a reasonable fashion and thus anyone else who ha the same misconception would learn something. I know it doesn't seem like it sometimes, but we do try to err on the side of light moderation.
and matteo, I'm not complaining, just observing. I like men and I don't bandy about the term Male Answer Syndrome because I know people find it annoying which was my original point about it.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:21 PM on April 4, 2006
Because we don't remove answers that are wrong. In this case, obi actually corrected himself in a reasonable fashion and thus anyone else who ha the same misconception would learn something. I know it doesn't seem like it sometimes, but we do try to err on the side of light moderation.
and matteo, I'm not complaining, just observing. I like men and I don't bandy about the term Male Answer Syndrome because I know people find it annoying which was my original point about it.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:21 PM on April 4, 2006
I find it amazing that people are willing to decide what the correct answer is based on an unsourced Wikipedia edit. No official or even semi-official sources (like, say, a newsgroup posting from some guy working at Sony) have been offered.
In my mind it is still quite possible that obiwanwasabi was correct. I would like to see some real evidence that he is not.
I have disputed the abbreviation expansion for DSCF on Wikipedia.
posted by grouse at 12:50 PM on April 4, 2006
In my mind it is still quite possible that obiwanwasabi was correct. I would like to see some real evidence that he is not.
I have disputed the abbreviation expansion for DSCF on Wikipedia.
posted by grouse at 12:50 PM on April 4, 2006
To save you the trouble, I will note that the word "DSCF" does not occur anywhere in the DCF spec.
posted by grouse at 12:54 PM on April 4, 2006
posted by grouse at 12:54 PM on April 4, 2006
I posted already on the other thread, but it looks like DSCF is only used by Fuji cameras, so obi is still at least half wrong, but then so is the "definitive" answer.
posted by cillit bang at 1:29 PM on April 4, 2006
posted by cillit bang at 1:29 PM on April 4, 2006
There is nothing necessarily wrong with the Male Answer Syndrone so long as you are aware that it exists. I've seen answers that were not absolutely correct but which contained some correct information which when added to other information I already had allowed me to locate the correct answer to a question. The compulsion to answer even when not sure can add something. If the answerer isn't completely sure about the answer it would be nice if they added an "I think" to their comment.
posted by Carbolic at 2:01 PM on April 4, 2006
posted by Carbolic at 2:01 PM on April 4, 2006
so obi is still at least half wrong, but then so is the "definitive" answer.
Which means there was absolutely no need for the animosity obi received. Not that there would have been even if the other answer were correct.
posted by grouse at 2:59 PM on April 4, 2006
Which means there was absolutely no need for the animosity obi received. Not that there would have been even if the other answer were correct.
posted by grouse at 2:59 PM on April 4, 2006
aside:
can't we have a guideline about asking questions purely for self-validation where any constructively offered comment is dismissed out of hand?
yes please.
posted by juv3nal at 4:38 PM on April 4, 2006
can't we have a guideline about asking questions purely for self-validation where any constructively offered comment is dismissed out of hand?
yes please.
posted by juv3nal at 4:38 PM on April 4, 2006
Well, at the end of the day we all learned something important about camera naming conventions.
Probably more then anyone wanted to know. :P
posted by delmoi at 4:48 PM on April 4, 2006
Probably more then anyone wanted to know. :P
posted by delmoi at 4:48 PM on April 4, 2006
can't we have a guideline about asking questions purely for self-validation where any constructively offered comment is dismissed out of hand?
You mean all the relationship advice questions? Those are the best, everyone loves 'em.
posted by delmoi at 4:49 PM on April 4, 2006
You mean all the relationship advice questions? Those are the best, everyone loves 'em.
posted by delmoi at 4:49 PM on April 4, 2006
and jessamyn, without Male Answer Syndrome MetaFilter would have half the traffic it's having now
Joy!
posted by Aknaton at 6:16 PM on April 4, 2006
Joy!
posted by Aknaton at 6:16 PM on April 4, 2006
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posted by cillit bang at 6:06 AM on April 4, 2006