Could we get a spoiler tag? May 28, 2006 9:16 AM Subscribe
Could we get a <spoiler> tag?
This is one of those things that only works if there is some sort of consensus on the use of such a tag.
Worse yet, it only works if there is universal and unfailing adherence to the tag—if it is employed even 90% of the time, the remaining 10% will lead to awful, self-righteous flareups that exceed even current schadenspoil generate.
posted by cortex at 9:46 AM on May 28, 2006
Worse yet, it only works if there is universal and unfailing adherence to the tag—if it is employed even 90% of the time, the remaining 10% will lead to awful, self-righteous flareups that exceed even current schadenspoil generate.
posted by cortex at 9:46 AM on May 28, 2006
Also, when deploying made-up German words, be sure to surround your statement-in-progress with <grammar> tags, lest, when you forget to reread your sentence afterward, you come off utterly incoherent.
posted by cortex at 9:48 AM on May 28, 2006
posted by cortex at 9:48 AM on May 28, 2006
I think a spoiled tag might be more appropriate.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:03 AM on May 28, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:03 AM on May 28, 2006
Was the spoilers discussion from a few days ago not enough Mean Mr. Bucket?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:09 AM on May 28, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:09 AM on May 28, 2006
please to be putting your spoilers tag in your bucket.
posted by atrazine at 10:12 AM on May 28, 2006
posted by atrazine at 10:12 AM on May 28, 2006
we need the <shitfuckpisshelldamncocksucker></shitfuckpisshelldamncocksucker> tags for enclosing the profanity of illiterate fuckwits like myself.
posted by quonsar at 10:16 AM on May 28, 2006
posted by quonsar at 10:16 AM on May 28, 2006
The problem is that the number of things deemed spoiler-able keeps growing. It used to be just movies currently playing in theatres (e.g., twist endings in Witness for the Prosecution or The Crying Game); now we have to take into account broadcast schedules in different countries, people who haven't seen it on DVD, etc.
I think we crossed a line when someone bitched about having Olympic results "spoiled" because NBC's coverage was on tape delay. What's next?
I don't really have a lot of patience for people complaining about spoilers (but then I watch movies for reasons other than being surprised by the plot), and I don't think they can be satisfied by this, not when the goalposts keep getting moved.
posted by mcwetboy at 10:18 AM on May 28, 2006
I think we crossed a line when someone bitched about having Olympic results "spoiled" because NBC's coverage was on tape delay. What's next?
I don't really have a lot of patience for people complaining about spoilers (but then I watch movies for reasons other than being surprised by the plot), and I don't think they can be satisfied by this, not when the goalposts keep getting moved.
posted by mcwetboy at 10:18 AM on May 28, 2006
The last one was the best -- a person in China was waiting for torrents and didn't want it spoiled. That one was amusing, as if I need to add a warning to the posting page saying "HEY! HAVE INTERNET PIRATES SEEN THIS YET? IF NOT, BE SURE TO WARN THEM".
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:50 AM on May 28, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:50 AM on May 28, 2006
Trying to keep spoilers off the internet is like trying to keep Den Beste out of his beard.
posted by cellphone at 12:30 PM on May 28, 2006
posted by cellphone at 12:30 PM on May 28, 2006
SPOILER ALERT!!!!
If you haven't yet watched the November 21st 1980 episode of Dallas, READ NO FURTHER!
Who Shot J.R.?
It was Kristin!!! OMG
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 12:30 PM on May 28, 2006
If you haven't yet watched the November 21st 1980 episode of Dallas, READ NO FURTHER!
Who Shot J.R.?
It was Kristin!!! OMG
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 12:30 PM on May 28, 2006
As Web 2.0 isn't quite "here" yet, any threads on the subject deserve spoiler tags.
posted by Smart Dalek at 12:57 PM on May 28, 2006
posted by Smart Dalek at 12:57 PM on May 28, 2006
I had no idea this was a point of contention. I just thought it was a standard html tag, maybe more of a widely used homebrew sort of thing that arose out of forums and one which here is seemingly conciliarly with "net nanny" or "baby dumbass."
What to me is much more annoying than a blacked out phrase is the straw man fallacy on Metafilter.
Simply, Straw Man is out of control:
1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
Example:
1. Proposed spoiler tag.
2.
4. Bucket haha dumbass.
And it's like, I wasn't even fucking alive when Dallas was on.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 1:02 PM on May 28, 2006
What to me is much more annoying than a blacked out phrase is the straw man fallacy on Metafilter.
Simply, Straw Man is out of control:
1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
Example:
1. Proposed spoiler tag.
2.
SPOILER ALERT!!!!3. Implied.
If you haven't yet watched the November 21st 1980 episode of Dallas, READ NO FURTHER!
Who Shot J.R.?
It was Kristin!!! OMG
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 12:30 PM PST on May 28
4. Bucket haha dumbass.
And it's like, I wasn't even fucking alive when Dallas was on.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 1:02 PM on May 28, 2006
jayisgames has a nice <spoiler> tag system. Anything enclosed in the tags has a 
you can click on to reveal information. Is this what you're suggesting?
Of course, for individual users to exercise discretion would be easier on everyone except those users themselves.
posted by Eideteker at 1:18 PM on May 28, 2006
you can click on to reveal information. Is this what you're suggesting?Of course, for individual users to exercise discretion would be easier on everyone except those users themselves.
posted by Eideteker at 1:18 PM on May 28, 2006
I had no idea this was a point of contention. I just thought it was a standard html tag, maybe more of a widely used homebrew sort of thing that arose out of forums
well, sure, it's standard on forums like Television Without Pity, where everyone is there specifically to discuss TV shows, and where "spoiler" is narrowly defined as "information about an upcoming episode that has yet to air." Once the show has aired, openly discussing all plot points/twists/etc. is fine; if a member of the forum hasn't watched it yet, it's up to them to avoid the forums to remain unspoiled until they've finally seen the episode. (This is what I had to do for all of Season 5 of the Sopranos -- I wasn't watching it as it aired, and so it was up to me to avert my eyes from any and all possible spoilers.)
Contrast that simple definition of spoiler (and very specific use of the spoiler tag) with Mefi, where the notion of a spoiler has become so broad as to render the idea of a spoiler tag virtually unworkable. In other words, for Mefi's purposes there is simply no general consensus over what constitutes a spoiler, nor on whose shoulders the obligation to avoid them rests (i.e., the posters who might be spoiling something vs. the posters who might wish to remain unspoiled). I've seen it seriously suggested (and defended) that even discussing basic plot points from movies made during the Kennedy administration constitutes a spoiler, which -- to me and many others -- is sheer nonsense. Taken to an extreme, it means we'd have to put spoiler tags around mentioning that everyone ends up dead in Hamlet, lest we disappoint some high school sophomore who hasn't gotten round to reading it yet.
posted by scody at 1:19 PM on May 28, 2006
well, sure, it's standard on forums like Television Without Pity, where everyone is there specifically to discuss TV shows, and where "spoiler" is narrowly defined as "information about an upcoming episode that has yet to air." Once the show has aired, openly discussing all plot points/twists/etc. is fine; if a member of the forum hasn't watched it yet, it's up to them to avoid the forums to remain unspoiled until they've finally seen the episode. (This is what I had to do for all of Season 5 of the Sopranos -- I wasn't watching it as it aired, and so it was up to me to avert my eyes from any and all possible spoilers.)
Contrast that simple definition of spoiler (and very specific use of the spoiler tag) with Mefi, where the notion of a spoiler has become so broad as to render the idea of a spoiler tag virtually unworkable. In other words, for Mefi's purposes there is simply no general consensus over what constitutes a spoiler, nor on whose shoulders the obligation to avoid them rests (i.e., the posters who might be spoiling something vs. the posters who might wish to remain unspoiled). I've seen it seriously suggested (and defended) that even discussing basic plot points from movies made during the Kennedy administration constitutes a spoiler, which -- to me and many others -- is sheer nonsense. Taken to an extreme, it means we'd have to put spoiler tags around mentioning that everyone ends up dead in Hamlet, lest we disappoint some high school sophomore who hasn't gotten round to reading it yet.
posted by scody at 1:19 PM on May 28, 2006
Here's a spoiler warning:
If you don't want to know how something turns out, don't go near TV, radio, or internet. Shut your eyes and close your ears at any hint of veering into spoiler territory.
The problem is that when people are waiting on the edge of their seat for something, they want their appetite to be whetted with hints or contextual information. They hit the internet looking for zero-spoiler content in order to pass the time and stoke their little hard-on for the while they have to wait to enjoy the main event. And DOH! Guess what? They bump into a spoiler, and suddenly it's your fault for ramming it down their throat.
posted by scarabic at 2:09 PM on May 28, 2006
If you don't want to know how something turns out, don't go near TV, radio, or internet. Shut your eyes and close your ears at any hint of veering into spoiler territory.
The problem is that when people are waiting on the edge of their seat for something, they want their appetite to be whetted with hints or contextual information. They hit the internet looking for zero-spoiler content in order to pass the time and stoke their little hard-on for the while they have to wait to enjoy the main event. And DOH! Guess what? They bump into a spoiler, and suddenly it's your fault for ramming it down their throat.
posted by scarabic at 2:09 PM on May 28, 2006
I wasn't trying to attack you, Mean Mr. Bucket.
I'm sorry you took it that way.
For what it's worth, I hate spoilers on the internet (and in real life) as well.
I was trying to make a joke/point about the temporal nature of 'spoilers'-- in twenty-odd years, will anyone care about the event being spoiled? Especially those who, as you note, were not even alive to witness said event?
Or, as scody said, I've seen it seriously suggested (and defended) that even discussing basic plot points from movies made during the Kennedy administration constitutes a spoiler, which -- to me and many others -- is sheer nonsense.
Again, I in no way meant this as an attack (straw man or otherwise) against you. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding-- perhaps I should've been more careful with my phrasing.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 2:15 PM on May 28, 2006
I'm sorry you took it that way.
For what it's worth, I hate spoilers on the internet (and in real life) as well.
I was trying to make a joke/point about the temporal nature of 'spoilers'-- in twenty-odd years, will anyone care about the event being spoiled? Especially those who, as you note, were not even alive to witness said event?
Or, as scody said, I've seen it seriously suggested (and defended) that even discussing basic plot points from movies made during the Kennedy administration constitutes a spoiler, which -- to me and many others -- is sheer nonsense.
Again, I in no way meant this as an attack (straw man or otherwise) against you. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding-- perhaps I should've been more careful with my phrasing.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 2:15 PM on May 28, 2006
everyone ends up dead in Hamlet
What?! And I was only on Act III!
I used to be sympathetic to spoiler complaints, but it really has gotten ridiculous. The idea of a spoiler tag is even more so. And Mean Mr. Bucket, if you're going to be so touchy you should get a new username.
posted by languagehat at 2:31 PM on May 28, 2006
What?! And I was only on Act III!
I used to be sympathetic to spoiler complaints, but it really has gotten ridiculous. The idea of a spoiler tag is even more so. And Mean Mr. Bucket, if you're going to be so touchy you should get a new username.
posted by languagehat at 2:31 PM on May 28, 2006
mathowie writes "a person in China was waiting for torrents and didn't want it spoiled. That one was amusing, as if I need to add a warning to the posting page saying 'HEY! HAVE INTERNET PIRATES SEEN THIS YET? IF NOT, BE SURE TO WARN THEM'."
I don't see a problem with pirating stuff that isn't available legally in your area.
posted by Mitheral at 3:03 PM on May 28, 2006
I don't see a problem with pirating stuff that isn't available legally in your area.
posted by Mitheral at 3:03 PM on May 28, 2006
Mefites on the U.S. west coast, say, have a reasonable position when asking east coasters to put spoilers for TV shows on the *inside* of the thread. Yes, whining about spoilers can get ridiculous, but moving spoilers to inside the thread is just the right community-friendly thing to do. Is it really that much to ask that a link in a post stating "Taylor Hicks just won American Idol" be changed to "American Idol winner announced" or something?
No, it's not that much to ask, and folks who insist on painting all requests for spoiler alerts with the same broad brush are being dumb. Repeatedly.
posted by mediareport at 3:16 PM on May 28, 2006
No, it's not that much to ask, and folks who insist on painting all requests for spoiler alerts with the same broad brush are being dumb. Repeatedly.
posted by mediareport at 3:16 PM on May 28, 2006
"Is it really that much to ask that a link in a post stating..."
We also need some magic pixie dust that glows whenever someone drafts a potential spoiler since many sucher posters may not even realize that their post contains a spoiler.
posted by mischief at 3:36 PM on May 28, 2006
We also need some magic pixie dust that glows whenever someone drafts a potential spoiler since many sucher posters may not even realize that their post contains a spoiler.
posted by mischief at 3:36 PM on May 28, 2006
Mefites on the U.S. west coast, say, have a reasonable position when asking east coasters to put spoilers for TV shows on the *inside* of the thread.
No, they don't. This isn't TWOP. If your post is time-sensitive to the hour — if you're posting it thinking, "I'd better hurry before someone else posts this" — then it's probably not the best of the web. The reasonable objection isn't when the American Idol post should hit the front page of MetaFilter. It's why.
That aside: What's the point of a spoiler tag? You'd have to click through to view the tag, right — in which case, presumably, you've already risked reading the spoiler. Is this just about being able to collate all spoiler-related threads for some odd reason?
posted by cribcage at 3:47 PM on May 28, 2006
No, they don't. This isn't TWOP. If your post is time-sensitive to the hour — if you're posting it thinking, "I'd better hurry before someone else posts this" — then it's probably not the best of the web. The reasonable objection isn't when the American Idol post should hit the front page of MetaFilter. It's why.
That aside: What's the point of a spoiler tag? You'd have to click through to view the tag, right — in which case, presumably, you've already risked reading the spoiler. Is this just about being able to collate all spoiler-related threads for some odd reason?
posted by cribcage at 3:47 PM on May 28, 2006
"I don't see a problem with pirating stuff that isn't available legally in your area."
You are not legally liable for the site.
"if you're posting it thinking, "I'd better hurry before someone else posts this" — then it's probably not the best of the web."
Good god, does that ever bear repeating. Matt, can we get this added to the bright flashing text in the box above the text area on the new post page?
posted by Eideteker at 4:07 PM on May 28, 2006
You are not legally liable for the site.
"if you're posting it thinking, "I'd better hurry before someone else posts this" — then it's probably not the best of the web."
Good god, does that ever bear repeating. Matt, can we get this added to the bright flashing text in the box above the text area on the new post page?
posted by Eideteker at 4:07 PM on May 28, 2006
Mefites on the U.S. west coast, say, have a reasonable position when asking east coasters to put spoilers for TV shows on the *inside* of the thread.
No we don't. I'm on the U.S. West Coast, and it's asinine to "ask" my East Coast brethren to mollycoddle me like that. If I don't want to be spoiled about the American Idol winner*, it is upon my shoulders to avoid visiting websites (or news broadcasts) that might reasonably be expected to report on it as it happens on the East Coast. It's not like I'm [QUASI-CLOCKWORK ORANGE SPOILER] involuntarily forced to gaze upon Mefi with my eyes propped open [/Q-COS] in the three hours between when the show goes out live to the East Coast and when it gets broadcast here.
*NB: I don't actually care about the American Idol winner, as AI has been dead to me -- dead! -- ever since the absurd premature ouster of Constantine last year.
posted by scody at 4:11 PM on May 28, 2006
No we don't. I'm on the U.S. West Coast, and it's asinine to "ask" my East Coast brethren to mollycoddle me like that. If I don't want to be spoiled about the American Idol winner*, it is upon my shoulders to avoid visiting websites (or news broadcasts) that might reasonably be expected to report on it as it happens on the East Coast. It's not like I'm [QUASI-CLOCKWORK ORANGE SPOILER] involuntarily forced to gaze upon Mefi with my eyes propped open [/Q-COS] in the three hours between when the show goes out live to the East Coast and when it gets broadcast here.
*NB: I don't actually care about the American Idol winner, as AI has been dead to me -- dead! -- ever since the absurd premature ouster of Constantine last year.
posted by scody at 4:11 PM on May 28, 2006
Like several other MetaFilter users, I live in the UK. We get to see your telly programmes a whole year after you've seen them.
Well, maybe less for the satellite, cable or digital people, but I only have five telly channels. And one of them is pretty fuzzy. I DEMAND that you don't speak of any given media event for one year. Eighteen months, to be on the safe side.
That hot lad with the tattoos is still in prison, right?
posted by jack_mo at 4:36 PM on May 28, 2006
Well, maybe less for the satellite, cable or digital people, but I only have five telly channels. And one of them is pretty fuzzy. I DEMAND that you don't speak of any given media event for one year. Eighteen months, to be on the safe side.
That hot lad with the tattoos is still in prison, right?
posted by jack_mo at 4:36 PM on May 28, 2006
it's asinine to "ask" my East Coast brethren to mollycoddle me like that.
"Mollycoddle"?
*laughs*
Whatever. It's easy to do, and if the folks who post obvious spoilers the minute they're news weren't such dumbasses, generally speaking, they'd have the brains to realize it doesn't take much more effort to put the fucking spoiler inside the goddamn thread so everyone who visits the front page doesn't confront the fucking spoiler right off the bat.
Asinine, indeed.
posted by mediareport at 4:39 PM on May 28, 2006
"Mollycoddle"?
*laughs*
Whatever. It's easy to do, and if the folks who post obvious spoilers the minute they're news weren't such dumbasses, generally speaking, they'd have the brains to realize it doesn't take much more effort to put the fucking spoiler inside the goddamn thread so everyone who visits the front page doesn't confront the fucking spoiler right off the bat.
Asinine, indeed.
posted by mediareport at 4:39 PM on May 28, 2006
Mediareport, chill. You're sound a lot more angry than you need. Of course it's just as easy to say "American Idol crowns its winner -- more inside!!" as it is to say "The inexplicable Taylor Hicks begins his reign of terror!" One sentence is as easy as the other to type. What I object to is this notion that, sheerly by virtue of living on the left-hand side of the country, I should expect (or demand?) that east coast viewers/posters will remember to choose to type sentence B instead of sentence A. Well, I don't expect it. I don't expect the major media outlets to keep it mum. I don't expect people at work not to talk about it the next day. I don't expect the culture at large to shut down until I've decided to watch it on Tivo. I guess I'm just comfortable with the fact that I'm not the center of the fucking universe, and if I want to remain unspoiled for a major media event, it is in my interest to avoid media till such time as I've seen it, and not expect whole swaths of the nation to tiptoe around the fact.
posted by scody at 4:59 PM on May 28, 2006
posted by scody at 4:59 PM on May 28, 2006
Hey, I've said I think folks who care should learn to stay away from Mefi until they watch their precious show. I just object to the folks - like you - who are completely denying there's any value to noting that avoiding spoilers is easy.
And don't tell me to chill, hon, when you're the one putting 'asinine' in italics.
posted by mediareport at 5:05 PM on May 28, 2006
And don't tell me to chill, hon, when you're the one putting 'asinine' in italics.
posted by mediareport at 5:05 PM on May 28, 2006
< .spoiler>Metafilter< ./spoiler>
posted by anotherpanacea at 5:49 PM on May 28, 2006
posted by anotherpanacea at 5:49 PM on May 28, 2006
Matt, can we get this added to the bright flashing text in the box above the text area on the new post page?
Well, I added a note to the faq.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:51 PM on May 28, 2006
Well, I added a note to the faq.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:51 PM on May 28, 2006
And don't tell me to chill, hon, when you're the one putting 'asinine' in italics.
Would it have been cooler, hon, had I just kept it in roman?
Besides, no denying one's it's easy to avoid some spoilers (by which I mean only "crucial content-related component of something yet to air or be released" or "crucial content-related component of something only very recently aired or released" and not "basic plot point of movie that came out when my father was in short pants"). Indeed, by that definition I've never posted a spoiler here, and I try to be careful that I don't spoil shows for people around me.
What I'm denying is your assertion that I, by virtue of living in California, have some sort of legitimate moral claim to expect that East Coast Mefites must remember to "protect" me from being spoiled from the breaking outcome of some pop culture event when the outcome of said event is simultaneously being openly broadcast on every major media site. In other words, if CNN's announcing it* and the TWoP forums are openly discussing it, I think it's just silly to expect that Metafilter can be held to a higher standard of spoiler protection.
*of course eaving aside the insanity of a culture in which the American Idol winner is announced on CNN.
posted by scody at 6:12 PM on May 28, 2006
Would it have been cooler, hon, had I just kept it in roman?
Besides, no denying one's it's easy to avoid some spoilers (by which I mean only "crucial content-related component of something yet to air or be released" or "crucial content-related component of something only very recently aired or released" and not "basic plot point of movie that came out when my father was in short pants"). Indeed, by that definition I've never posted a spoiler here, and I try to be careful that I don't spoil shows for people around me.
What I'm denying is your assertion that I, by virtue of living in California, have some sort of legitimate moral claim to expect that East Coast Mefites must remember to "protect" me from being spoiled from the breaking outcome of some pop culture event when the outcome of said event is simultaneously being openly broadcast on every major media site. In other words, if CNN's announcing it* and the TWoP forums are openly discussing it, I think it's just silly to expect that Metafilter can be held to a higher standard of spoiler protection.
*of course eaving aside the insanity of a culture in which the American Idol winner is announced on CNN.
posted by scody at 6:12 PM on May 28, 2006
Man, people sure do get strident when defending their right to ruin other people's TV enjoyment. It's the new "is this something I'd need a TV to understand", but way more passive-aggresive.
posted by smackfu at 7:48 PM on May 28, 2006
posted by smackfu at 7:48 PM on May 28, 2006
I'm going to print up some <spoiler> underwear on CafePress or something. It'll make millions on thinkgeek!
posted by Eideteker at 7:03 AM on May 29, 2006
posted by Eideteker at 7:03 AM on May 29, 2006
Some things are all about the twist. The ending of certain movies, some TV shows, and so on. It's rude to post those on the front page when they're 'current'. Especially on a site that isn't even about god damn movies or TV shows, but about the best sites on the web.
If you want to post links to various Lost community websites and so on, you can easily do so without giving away any twists that happen in the season 2 finale.
How is this so fucking difficult?
posted by The Monkey at 11:16 PM on May 29, 2006
If you want to post links to various Lost community websites and so on, you can easily do so without giving away any twists that happen in the season 2 finale.
How is this so fucking difficult?
posted by The Monkey at 11:16 PM on May 29, 2006
Eideteker writes "You are not legally liable for the site."
And Matt isn't hosting this stuff.
Having a concensus to at least attempt to not spoil stuff like this isn't going expose anyone to liablity.
posted by Mitheral at 8:49 AM on May 30, 2006
And Matt isn't hosting this stuff.
Having a concensus to at least attempt to not spoil stuff like this isn't going expose anyone to liablity.
posted by Mitheral at 8:49 AM on May 30, 2006
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posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:26 AM on May 28, 2006