Is ask.metafilter becoming less civil? September 21, 2006 1:47 PM Subscribe
I have followed ask.metafilter for several years--infrequent poster but faithful reader and occasional responder. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed in the last several months a slight decline in the civility of responses and an increasing harshness of tone. I note an increasing judgementalism particularly the reframing of the question to challenge the poster. It is still one of the most civil places I visit. Really, I was just curious. Obviously, it appears more often on the human relation issues. Thanks for any comments
Well, I'm probably guilty of posting less than sugary sweet responses on Ask Metafilter, but honestly I had been feeling like it's more civil than it previously was. It seemed that in the past people had been posting completely irrelevant responses that were solely intended to snark, and from what I've seen (and maybe I'm just missing a slew of deleted comments, who knows), this seems to have cooled down.
However, if there is a lack of civility, I guess maybe it could be because posters who have been around longer may have a lack of patience at some of the questions that have been asked before or that seem obvious to the commenters.
Whoever said there were no stupid questions never read AskMe.
just kidding, just kidding ;-)
posted by tastybrains at 1:55 PM on September 21, 2006
However, if there is a lack of civility, I guess maybe it could be because posters who have been around longer may have a lack of patience at some of the questions that have been asked before or that seem obvious to the commenters.
Whoever said there were no stupid questions never read AskMe.
just kidding, just kidding ;-)
posted by tastybrains at 1:55 PM on September 21, 2006
Elections are coming up (in the US).
posted by orthogonality at 2:11 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by orthogonality at 2:11 PM on September 21, 2006
Has Ask Metafilter even existed for several years? Am I that old?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 2:16 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 2:16 PM on September 21, 2006
Seems civil enough to me. Maybe I've just grown used to it over time. It seemed less civil when I first joined not that long ago.
posted by GuyZero at 2:17 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by GuyZero at 2:17 PM on September 21, 2006
Maybe because ask.mefi seems to be evolving - it seems like the questions are way more open-ended than they used to be. Is there a tag trend chart (a la the pie chart?) that could confirm this?
posted by DenOfSizer at 2:27 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 2:27 PM on September 21, 2006
I have usually found AskMefi to be very civil. The trolling arseholes get bored very quickly and the core who appreciate it remain.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 2:37 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by ClanvidHorse at 2:37 PM on September 21, 2006
it seems like the questions are way more open-ended than they used to be
If I may be overly non-specific - questions and answers just lead to more questions.
The chronologically linear structure reinforces that, with the bonus of repeat questions.
I still want to see Ask scraped and squished into categories or trees in a pleasant to browse and explore system. A variation of the default Everything engine would do it, but I'm sadistic like that.
posted by loquacious at 2:44 PM on September 21, 2006
If I may be overly non-specific - questions and answers just lead to more questions.
The chronologically linear structure reinforces that, with the bonus of repeat questions.
I still want to see Ask scraped and squished into categories or trees in a pleasant to browse and explore system. A variation of the default Everything engine would do it, but I'm sadistic like that.
posted by loquacious at 2:44 PM on September 21, 2006
It's.... THE SCORN!
posted by klangklangston at 2:46 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 2:46 PM on September 21, 2006
PinkStainlessTail writes "Has Ask Metafilter even existed for several years?"
First AskMe: December 8th, 2003, so not quite three years and is thread number 3705 for some reason.
posted by Mitheral at 3:09 PM on September 21, 2006
First AskMe: December 8th, 2003, so not quite three years and is thread number 3705 for some reason.
posted by Mitheral at 3:09 PM on September 21, 2006
Ask and Talk used to share thread numbers if memory serves.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:11 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:11 PM on September 21, 2006
I think people are tired of it. It's turned into Groundhog Day and everyone is sick of the predictability and rampant idiocy. I know I am. Some stupid asshole suggested the other day that poor people or people with financial problems shouldn't have pets. Stupid asshole or cartoony republican, I'm not sure which.
After I saw that, I realized that it's mostly worthless except for "how do I do a specific thing in this application," "where can I get more info on performing this concrete task?" and "what's this song called?"
Anyone who asks for veterinary advice needs to be told that Ask Metafilter is worthhless for it unless you want to hear a hysterical "GO TO A VET IMMEDIATELY" in response to stuff like "My dog's nails are a bit long, how do I clip them?"
Anyone who asks for relationship advice needs to be reminded that about 15% of the people here are actually in relationships (with people they have actually met), and a further 90% of those people have relationships based on dragon dice and MUDs.
Anyone who asks "what should I name X" needs to be stuffed into a canvas bag and thrown into a river.
You can't even ask a language question without people who don't know another language running to babelfish and frantically posting the unusable results before an actual speaker comes along.
So most of it is shit, and people feel a need to deface it because it isn't named "ConjectureHysteriaandPullOutofAssfilter.
posted by Mayor Curley at 3:15 PM on September 21, 2006 [7 favorites]
After I saw that, I realized that it's mostly worthless except for "how do I do a specific thing in this application," "where can I get more info on performing this concrete task?" and "what's this song called?"
Anyone who asks for veterinary advice needs to be told that Ask Metafilter is worthhless for it unless you want to hear a hysterical "GO TO A VET IMMEDIATELY" in response to stuff like "My dog's nails are a bit long, how do I clip them?"
Anyone who asks for relationship advice needs to be reminded that about 15% of the people here are actually in relationships (with people they have actually met), and a further 90% of those people have relationships based on dragon dice and MUDs.
Anyone who asks "what should I name X" needs to be stuffed into a canvas bag and thrown into a river.
You can't even ask a language question without people who don't know another language running to babelfish and frantically posting the unusable results before an actual speaker comes along.
So most of it is shit, and people feel a need to deface it because it isn't named "ConjectureHysteriaandPullOutofAssfilter.
posted by Mayor Curley at 3:15 PM on September 21, 2006 [7 favorites]
as autumn approached and it came time for everyone to go back into the salt mines.
Uhh, except for those of us expected to work all year.
posted by desuetude at 3:16 PM on September 21, 2006
Uhh, except for those of us expected to work all year.
posted by desuetude at 3:16 PM on September 21, 2006
I check in a couple times a day over there, and with the exception of really stupid questions like this one, I usually refrain from being too smart-assy. If you think this is bad, go take a look at the unmitigated horror that is ask yahoo.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 3:20 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by Mr. Gunn at 3:20 PM on September 21, 2006
One of the summer's greatest ask.me moments: First this, then this.
posted by Pacheco at 3:21 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by Pacheco at 3:21 PM on September 21, 2006
Anyone who asks "what should I name X" needs to be stuffed into a canvas bag and thrown into a river.
mayor curley, can i buy you a drink? or a canvas bag and offer you a ride to the river?
posted by crush-onastick at 3:30 PM on September 21, 2006
mayor curley, can i buy you a drink? or a canvas bag and offer you a ride to the river?
posted by crush-onastick at 3:30 PM on September 21, 2006
I flagged it already, rhomboid. We'll see what happens.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 3:41 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by Mr. Gunn at 3:41 PM on September 21, 2006
Is that any more rubbishy than this, though?
(FWIW, I think they're both piece-of-shit questions, and have flagged the hell out of both of them, but is one any worse than the other?)
posted by dersins at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2006
(FWIW, I think they're both piece-of-shit questions, and have flagged the hell out of both of them, but is one any worse than the other?)
posted by dersins at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2006
as autumn approached and it came time for everyone to go back into the salt mines.
Uhh, except for those of us expected to work all year.
Uhh, and except for those of us who live in the Southern Hemisphere.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:57 PM on September 21, 2006
Uhh, except for those of us expected to work all year.
Uhh, and except for those of us who live in the Southern Hemisphere.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:57 PM on September 21, 2006
Some of the people do seem rather brittle and snarky but it is still the most civilized and inteligent board I go to.
posted by Iron Rat at 4:00 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by Iron Rat at 4:00 PM on September 21, 2006
I think the typical questions have already been asked and now we're getting into social niceties, relationships, and other 'soft' stuff that's just barely above chatfilter.
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:09 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:09 PM on September 21, 2006
Okay fine, amend the "everyone" in my first comment to "Anyone who does not have to labour in the salt mines of North America all year 'round..."
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:10 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:10 PM on September 21, 2006
Northern Hemisphere, rather. Dammit.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:12 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:12 PM on September 21, 2006
I think people forget that askme is only 5$ for a lifetime of free advice. And as far as free advice goes, some of it's pretty good. But often you get what you pay for, on the intarweb or IRL.
posted by bardic at 4:18 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by bardic at 4:18 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
What I've been wondering is if people are not reading as carefully as they used to. I see a lot of comments that make no sense at all if you read the entire question at slower than warp speed.
For what it is worth, I see the same thing on the blue.
And, yeah, there are more shit questions.
posted by QIbHom at 4:22 PM on September 21, 2006
For what it is worth, I see the same thing on the blue.
And, yeah, there are more shit questions.
posted by QIbHom at 4:22 PM on September 21, 2006
and a further 90% of those people have relationships based on dragon dice and MUDs.
I PUT ON MY ROBE AND WIZARD HAT
posted by loquacious at 4:23 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
I PUT ON MY ROBE AND WIZARD HAT
posted by loquacious at 4:23 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
I ATTACK...THE DARKNESS
posted by cortex at 4:25 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex at 4:25 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
Some users (but I won't mention any names SCDB) seem to amazingly be experts on everything! Brilliant minds! It seems they have an answer to offer in every second question.
Whether that answer is even correct or accurate is another matter.
I mean, I know it's hard to establish any kind of cultural change around this place, unless it involves ^'s, but maybe people need to be reminded only to answer questions they know the answer to.
As opposed to questions they have an opinion on. Or questions they want to test out their Google or Wikipedia skills on. Or questions they seems to recall having heard something about a few years back on some TV show they watched half of. Mayor Curley's on the ball with his descriptions of pets and relationships questions. Before you hit post on your answer, just ask yourself do I really know what I'm talking about here? Or am I just trying to stroke my ego?
Of course people offering lame answers is only half the equation. We also have the people posting questions in order to get some kind of justification for their actions. Using it as some kind of Ask Judy advice column (can I suggest they take that shit here). Noise from Ask Yahoo!-style n00bs is only a minor problem in comparison, and generally just causes amusement. And then there's the people asking about specific products. I mean, not to pick on Apple here...okay I won't, I'll add linksys too and reference their routers... anyway, if you have a problem with product X, these companies employ lots of people to man telephones and computers to answer your question. Why spend so much money on a Mac if you aren't even going to bother the bots on their support line? If you're having problems with software Y, ask the guy who wrote it. At least try it first - if they give you a shit answer, then bring it to AskMe.
/rant out.
posted by Jimbob at 4:29 PM on September 21, 2006 [5 favorites]
Whether that answer is even correct or accurate is another matter.
I mean, I know it's hard to establish any kind of cultural change around this place, unless it involves ^'s, but maybe people need to be reminded only to answer questions they know the answer to.
As opposed to questions they have an opinion on. Or questions they want to test out their Google or Wikipedia skills on. Or questions they seems to recall having heard something about a few years back on some TV show they watched half of. Mayor Curley's on the ball with his descriptions of pets and relationships questions. Before you hit post on your answer, just ask yourself do I really know what I'm talking about here? Or am I just trying to stroke my ego?
Of course people offering lame answers is only half the equation. We also have the people posting questions in order to get some kind of justification for their actions. Using it as some kind of Ask Judy advice column (can I suggest they take that shit here). Noise from Ask Yahoo!-style n00bs is only a minor problem in comparison, and generally just causes amusement. And then there's the people asking about specific products. I mean, not to pick on Apple here...okay I won't, I'll add linksys too and reference their routers... anyway, if you have a problem with product X, these companies employ lots of people to man telephones and computers to answer your question. Why spend so much money on a Mac if you aren't even going to bother the bots on their support line? If you're having problems with software Y, ask the guy who wrote it. At least try it first - if they give you a shit answer, then bring it to AskMe.
/rant out.
posted by Jimbob at 4:29 PM on September 21, 2006 [5 favorites]
One of the summer's greatest ask.me moments
Thank you for the reminder Pacheco. Disappointing to see that FeistyFerret does seem to have been driven off though.
posted by tellurian at 4:51 PM on September 21, 2006
Thank you for the reminder Pacheco. Disappointing to see that FeistyFerret does seem to have been driven off though.
posted by tellurian at 4:51 PM on September 21, 2006
I think there are noticeable oscillations in the frequency of unhelpful responses and jokes, it's just the nature of any complex system. You've got positive feedback (people copying other people's behavior) and negative feedback (deletions, admin emails to particularly egregious or repeat offenders, chastisement from the rest of the community). The negative feedback processes are slower to respond in this case and so swings are pretty much inevitable.
The perfect demonstration of positive feedback in AskMe is the number of people phrasing their question so that it ends with [more inside]. Honestly this is starting to get on my wick a bit.
posted by teleskiving at 4:59 PM on September 21, 2006
The perfect demonstration of positive feedback in AskMe is the number of people phrasing their question so that it ends with [more inside]. Honestly this is starting to get on my wick a bit.
posted by teleskiving at 4:59 PM on September 21, 2006
No. I haven't noticed any decline in civility on AskMe.
posted by cribcage at 5:09 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by cribcage at 5:09 PM on September 21, 2006
I was going to agree with the poster but on reflection I think I agree with teleskiving. There's ups and downs as with everything else.
Anyone who asks "what should I name X" needs to be stuffed into a canvas bag and thrown into a river.
You can't even ask a language question without people who don't know another language running to babelfish and frantically posting the unusable results before an actual speaker comes along.
So true, so true!
posted by languagehat at 5:24 PM on September 21, 2006
Anyone who asks "what should I name X" needs to be stuffed into a canvas bag and thrown into a river.
You can't even ask a language question without people who don't know another language running to babelfish and frantically posting the unusable results before an actual speaker comes along.
So true, so true!
posted by languagehat at 5:24 PM on September 21, 2006
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed in the last several months a slight decline in the civility of responses and an increasing harshness of tone.
Can't say i've noticed it myself.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:27 PM on September 21, 2006
Can't say i've noticed it myself.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:27 PM on September 21, 2006
"Is it just me or has anyone else noticed in the last several months a slight decline in the civility of responses and an increasing harshness of tone."
jimbob makes some points. Also, I think there may be a slight note of aggravation creeping in, here and there, on relationship questions, which I theorize is due to many of these questions being posed by what seem fairly young people, often posting anonymously. Youth and inexperience are often maddening, and when that goes behind the anonymous filter, where any followup is rare, the threads tend to wander into snark, in my limited experience.
But still, there is an infinite supply of young people, with borderline questions. If they are getting something from answers posted here, that is worth the snark their questions sometimes engender, who is badly served?
posted by paulsc at 5:38 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
jimbob makes some points. Also, I think there may be a slight note of aggravation creeping in, here and there, on relationship questions, which I theorize is due to many of these questions being posed by what seem fairly young people, often posting anonymously. Youth and inexperience are often maddening, and when that goes behind the anonymous filter, where any followup is rare, the threads tend to wander into snark, in my limited experience.
But still, there is an infinite supply of young people, with borderline questions. If they are getting something from answers posted here, that is worth the snark their questions sometimes engender, who is badly served?
posted by paulsc at 5:38 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
One of the summer's greatest ask.me moments
Yikes, totally missed that thread the first time around. Come back, fiestyferret!
posted by gsteff at 5:43 PM on September 21, 2006
Yikes, totally missed that thread the first time around. Come back, fiestyferret!
posted by gsteff at 5:43 PM on September 21, 2006
If you think this is bad, go take a look at the unmitigated horror that is ask yahoo.
While ask.mefi hasn't yet descended to the level of ask yahoo, at times it's starting to tend towards looking like a Linux mailing list...
RTFM!
posted by Jimbob at 6:54 PM on September 21, 2006
While ask.mefi hasn't yet descended to the level of ask yahoo, at times it's starting to tend towards looking like a Linux mailing list...
RTFM!
posted by Jimbob at 6:54 PM on September 21, 2006
FeistyFerret wasn't exactly "driven off"; he's busy [MeFi Projects].
posted by cgc373 at 7:04 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by cgc373 at 7:04 PM on September 21, 2006
Jesus H. Christ. I don't know whether to hope he did the site design himself, or not. That's fantastic.
posted by gsteff at 7:09 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by gsteff at 7:09 PM on September 21, 2006
I've been a member for all of three months now and I love AskMe. I've had really great responses to the questions I've posed and I've enjoyed a lot of the discussions that other questions have sparked. It has been very educational for me.
That said, even after three short months, I am very tired of lame relationship questions, such as:
"I have recently learned that my wife is cheating on me. She is, in fact, having hot monkey sex with the milkman, our accountant and every UPS driver in the tri-state area. Is it time for me to divorce her?"
I can only imagine how someone who's been here for several years might feel.
posted by jason's_planet at 8:05 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
That said, even after three short months, I am very tired of lame relationship questions, such as:
"I have recently learned that my wife is cheating on me. She is, in fact, having hot monkey sex with the milkman, our accountant and every UPS driver in the tri-state area. Is it time for me to divorce her?"
I can only imagine how someone who's been here for several years might feel.
posted by jason's_planet at 8:05 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
I feel like if it weren't for AskMe I would never have considered the job I'm currently enjoying at UPS.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 8:25 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 8:25 PM on September 21, 2006
has anyone else noticed in the last several months a slight decline in the civility of responses and an increasing harshness of tone[?]
ah, the good old days. I remember when I first joined MeFi everyone was so polite! caring even. the tone of posts was like a melodic harp. folks pardoned themselves for bumping into one another, doffed hats in deference to low user numbers' opinions, opened doors for each other, lent a hand whenever and for whatever, and never, ever cursed. when AskMe started up we were still greeting with hand-shakes (not those ridiculous, convoluted, slapping-fiestas that we have nowadays--just a firm grip and pump and strong eye contact) and ladies were still escorted across the street by alert gentlemen. thank-you notes were handwritten on embossed packets, people signaled turns before braking, the first answer was invariably the best answer--- and prompt, to boot!--- and if you had a beef with someone's comment you explained why first and then called them a fucktard.
but those salad days are gone. everything has changed, and nobody cares about anything anymore. and it'll only get worse here on out.
but I care. I galdarn care! SO GET OFF MY FUCKING LAWN! ne'erdowell kids.
posted by carsonb at 8:31 PM on September 21, 2006
ah, the good old days. I remember when I first joined MeFi everyone was so polite! caring even. the tone of posts was like a melodic harp. folks pardoned themselves for bumping into one another, doffed hats in deference to low user numbers' opinions, opened doors for each other, lent a hand whenever and for whatever, and never, ever cursed. when AskMe started up we were still greeting with hand-shakes (not those ridiculous, convoluted, slapping-fiestas that we have nowadays--just a firm grip and pump and strong eye contact) and ladies were still escorted across the street by alert gentlemen. thank-you notes were handwritten on embossed packets, people signaled turns before braking, the first answer was invariably the best answer--- and prompt, to boot!--- and if you had a beef with someone's comment you explained why first and then called them a fucktard.
but those salad days are gone. everything has changed, and nobody cares about anything anymore. and it'll only get worse here on out.
but I care. I galdarn care! SO GET OFF MY FUCKING LAWN! ne'erdowell kids.
posted by carsonb at 8:31 PM on September 21, 2006
*gives everyone a firm grip and pump with strong eye contact*
posted by carsonb at 8:35 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by carsonb at 8:35 PM on September 21, 2006
Woo, thanks, carsonb. Now I need a cigarette.
posted by Malor at 8:55 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Malor at 8:55 PM on September 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
It's not civility we need, it's helpfulness. There are times when I feel like no one on AskMe knows what it's like to set their own overactive brain aside and
1) LISTEN to what's being said without injecting all kinds of judgment into it and imaginging unspoken malice, ulterior motives, or gross ignorance
2) HELP the person asking the question, and no, getting all "tough love" and didactic on the internet and telling someone why all the premises of their life are wrong is not, in fact, effective or helpful at all
Do people still know what it's like to enjoy serving someone else? To put that person's needs first and selflessly give something to them, expecting nothing in return?
It seems that people use AskMe as a place to show off their "superior" judgment and/or morals for the sake of their own ego edification. A huge number of people need to take the goddamn chip off their shoulder, bend one knee, and discover what it's like to genuinely HELP someone else, not just "treat" them to your great font of wisdom and pith.
posted by scarabic at 9:22 PM on September 21, 2006 [3 favorites]
1) LISTEN to what's being said without injecting all kinds of judgment into it and imaginging unspoken malice, ulterior motives, or gross ignorance
2) HELP the person asking the question, and no, getting all "tough love" and didactic on the internet and telling someone why all the premises of their life are wrong is not, in fact, effective or helpful at all
Do people still know what it's like to enjoy serving someone else? To put that person's needs first and selflessly give something to them, expecting nothing in return?
It seems that people use AskMe as a place to show off their "superior" judgment and/or morals for the sake of their own ego edification. A huge number of people need to take the goddamn chip off their shoulder, bend one knee, and discover what it's like to genuinely HELP someone else, not just "treat" them to your great font of wisdom and pith.
posted by scarabic at 9:22 PM on September 21, 2006 [3 favorites]
I have little cheese squares and some pretzels and fruit--- there are toothpicks right here--- y'all can help yourselves to my warm font of wisdom and pith.
posted by carsonb at 9:35 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by carsonb at 9:35 PM on September 21, 2006
I find it ironical that the first AxMe question is What'sYourFavoriteFilter.
posted by aaronetc at 9:49 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by aaronetc at 9:49 PM on September 21, 2006
If you need to offer snacks, carsonb, it is neither a font nor is it pithy, for either of those draws foot traffic on its own. If you are laying out snacks for free with no true attraction at hand, neither is there wisdom nearby :)
posted by scarabic at 9:56 PM on September 21, 2006
posted by scarabic at 9:56 PM on September 21, 2006
"I remember when I first joined MeFi everyone was so polite! caring even. the tone of posts was like a melodic harp. folks pardoned themselves for bumping into one another, doffed hats in deference to low user numbers' opinions, opened doors for each other, lent a hand whenever and for whatever, and never, ever cursed."
When I joined, MeFites wore spats.
"It seems that people use AskMe as a place to show off their "superior" judgment and/or morals for the sake of their own ego edification. A huge number of people need to take the goddamn chip off their shoulder, bend one knee, and discover what it's like to genuinely HELP someone else, not just "treat" them to your great font of wisdom and pith."
I'll assume that there's still the attached caveat of "Y'know, sometimes you really do have to tell someone that the least of their problems is whether they should pay the babysitter for at least trying to get the kid out of the python."
This is still the internet, and the internet is still a great conduit (a tube, if you will) of gushing stupid, and it's helpful to remind people that their actions are sometimes profoundly moronic and should be abandoned.
posted by klangklangston at 10:06 PM on September 21, 2006
When I joined, MeFites wore spats.
"It seems that people use AskMe as a place to show off their "superior" judgment and/or morals for the sake of their own ego edification. A huge number of people need to take the goddamn chip off their shoulder, bend one knee, and discover what it's like to genuinely HELP someone else, not just "treat" them to your great font of wisdom and pith."
I'll assume that there's still the attached caveat of "Y'know, sometimes you really do have to tell someone that the least of their problems is whether they should pay the babysitter for at least trying to get the kid out of the python."
This is still the internet, and the internet is still a great conduit (a tube, if you will) of gushing stupid, and it's helpful to remind people that their actions are sometimes profoundly moronic and should be abandoned.
posted by klangklangston at 10:06 PM on September 21, 2006
I think there are noticeable oscillations in the frequency of unhelpful responses and jokes, it's just the nature of any complex system. You've got positive feedback (people copying other people's behavior) and negative feedback (deletions, admin emails to particularly egregious or repeat offenders, chastisement from the rest of the community). The negative feedback processes are slower to respond in this case and so swings are pretty much inevitable.
That's a very interesting observation, teleskiving. It provoked this response, which I'll preface by noting that I've been reading Ask Metafilter since the beginning-much longer than I've had a login-and I haven't noticed a decrease in civility or an increase in harshness.
This is my thought: if I'm blind and there really has been a change, maybe the more active and robust moderation that we've been seeing here in the past few months leads people to behave less admirably. In the same way that some researchers have observed that safety improvements to cars lead people to drive more dangerously, because there's a baseline of risky behavior where they feel comfortable, and they'll adjust their behavior to erase the gains from new safety technology.
And now an admission: I've posted maybe half a dozen pretty stupid, annoying, or jokey replies knowing they would be flagged and quickly deleted (and they were). I'm kind of ashamed, now that I think about it. I won't do that any more.
Anyway, thanks for that thought-provoking observation.
posted by evariste at 11:39 PM on September 21, 2006
That's a very interesting observation, teleskiving. It provoked this response, which I'll preface by noting that I've been reading Ask Metafilter since the beginning-much longer than I've had a login-and I haven't noticed a decrease in civility or an increase in harshness.
This is my thought: if I'm blind and there really has been a change, maybe the more active and robust moderation that we've been seeing here in the past few months leads people to behave less admirably. In the same way that some researchers have observed that safety improvements to cars lead people to drive more dangerously, because there's a baseline of risky behavior where they feel comfortable, and they'll adjust their behavior to erase the gains from new safety technology.
And now an admission: I've posted maybe half a dozen pretty stupid, annoying, or jokey replies knowing they would be flagged and quickly deleted (and they were). I'm kind of ashamed, now that I think about it. I won't do that any more.
Anyway, thanks for that thought-provoking observation.
posted by evariste at 11:39 PM on September 21, 2006
teleskiving: The perfect demonstration of positive feedback in AskMe is the number of people phrasing their question so that it ends with [more inside]. Honestly this is starting to get on my wick a bit.
Yes! This annoys the hell out of me. Partly because it's pointless (as if I wouldn't know there is more inside without the word "there's" before the [more inside]), and partly because when you read the question inside the thread the first part ends half-way through a
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:01 AM on September 22, 2006
Yes! This annoys the hell out of me. Partly because it's pointless (as if I wouldn't know there is more inside without the word "there's" before the [more inside]), and partly because when you read the question inside the thread the first part ends half-way through a
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:01 AM on September 22, 2006
Also intensely annoying: any reference to 'the hive mind'. If we were a hive mind, we'd already know the answer to our question before sodding well asking it, wouldn't we, and there wouldn't be a need for Ask Metafilter would there?
posted by jack_mo at 4:19 AM on September 22, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by jack_mo at 4:19 AM on September 22, 2006 [1 favorite]
There's really no incentive for people to actually post helpful answers. There's no disincentive for posting unhelpful questions. There's no disincentive for posting stupid questions. The question scroll by faster than anybody can handle. There's nobody who highlights the good questions or bad questions of the week/month, etc. There's just not much there there anymore. The Green is still pretty cool and I drop in occassionally these days, but the site is really not that useful to me anymore. It may be time for mathowssamyn to reboot AskMe and launch a 2.0 before it declines too far and too many wander off.
posted by nixerman at 5:30 AM on September 22, 2006
posted by nixerman at 5:30 AM on September 22, 2006
"The question scroll by faster than anybody can handle."
Y'know, I hear that all the time, and I just don't believe it. I check in about once a day for about five minutes, scroll through to where I had stopped the previous day, and only find about 10 questions worth popping open to see if either I can help or they'll be interesting reads. I leave about three comments per day, and I'm done (again, inside like five minutes).
Maybe I'm just not the sort of polymath who's giving detailed attention to every question, but I've always been confused by people who seem to think it's moving too fast.
posted by klangklangston at 6:00 AM on September 22, 2006
Y'know, I hear that all the time, and I just don't believe it. I check in about once a day for about five minutes, scroll through to where I had stopped the previous day, and only find about 10 questions worth popping open to see if either I can help or they'll be interesting reads. I leave about three comments per day, and I'm done (again, inside like five minutes).
Maybe I'm just not the sort of polymath who's giving detailed attention to every question, but I've always been confused by people who seem to think it's moving too fast.
posted by klangklangston at 6:00 AM on September 22, 2006
"The question scroll by faster than anybody can handle."
Y'know, I hear that all the time, and I just don't believe it.
I don't either. What, you visit once a week or something? If you check it once a day, there are a manageable number of new questions to glance over. If you're thinking you should be spending five minutes on each question, no matter what it's about or whether you know anything about the subject, you're obsessed and need to turn your computer off and go outside.
There's really no incentive for people to actually post helpful answers.
Except, of course, the pleasure of helping other people, something that normal human beings are familiar with. I guess you don't help old people across the street because there's "no incentive," either.
posted by languagehat at 8:19 AM on September 22, 2006 [1 favorite]
Y'know, I hear that all the time, and I just don't believe it.
I don't either. What, you visit once a week or something? If you check it once a day, there are a manageable number of new questions to glance over. If you're thinking you should be spending five minutes on each question, no matter what it's about or whether you know anything about the subject, you're obsessed and need to turn your computer off and go outside.
There's really no incentive for people to actually post helpful answers.
Except, of course, the pleasure of helping other people, something that normal human beings are familiar with. I guess you don't help old people across the street because there's "no incentive," either.
posted by languagehat at 8:19 AM on September 22, 2006 [1 favorite]
jack_mo writes "If we were a hive mind, we'd already know the answer to our question before sodding well asking it, wouldn't we, and there wouldn't be a need for Ask Metafilter would there?"
There could be a subset hive mind of metafilter users. People querying the hive mind aren't members (of the hive mind) even though the vast majority of us are.
languagehat writes "If you check it once a day, there are a manageable number of new questions to glance over."
Well there are days that the total number of questions runs to more than two pages. August 31st had 76 questions (if I didn't miss count) for example. I know days where I've been away from the net I often delve three or four pages back in the archives before coming across questions I've already read. I just don't see that as a big deal. For people answering the number of questions per day isn't a big deal, people asking questions however may have reason to be concerned. I wonder how many of the scrolls by to fast types ever look at the older questions?
posted by Mitheral at 9:13 AM on September 22, 2006
There could be a subset hive mind of metafilter users. People querying the hive mind aren't members (of the hive mind) even though the vast majority of us are.
languagehat writes "If you check it once a day, there are a manageable number of new questions to glance over."
Well there are days that the total number of questions runs to more than two pages. August 31st had 76 questions (if I didn't miss count) for example. I know days where I've been away from the net I often delve three or four pages back in the archives before coming across questions I've already read. I just don't see that as a big deal. For people answering the number of questions per day isn't a big deal, people asking questions however may have reason to be concerned. I wonder how many of the scrolls by to fast types ever look at the older questions?
posted by Mitheral at 9:13 AM on September 22, 2006
Et tu, Languagehat? "There's ups and downs?" Or is it some colloquial usage I've not yet processed? Just askin'.
posted by DenOfSizer at 9:47 AM on September 22, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 9:47 AM on September 22, 2006
And klangklangston, you've posted almost 4400 comments to mefi in general, and a 1000 to AxMe, in a year and half --- there's no way in hell I believe you check in once a day for about 5 minutes.
posted by DenOfSizer at 9:53 AM on September 22, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 9:53 AM on September 22, 2006
Et tu, Languagehat? "There's ups and downs?"
To me, it's standard colloquial usage. "Well, there's green ones and red ones—which do you want?" If it sounds off to you, it's probably not part of your dialect. That's what makes natural languages more interesting than Klingon or Esperanto.
posted by languagehat at 9:58 AM on September 22, 2006
To me, it's standard colloquial usage. "Well, there's green ones and red ones—which do you want?" If it sounds off to you, it's probably not part of your dialect. That's what makes natural languages more interesting than Klingon or Esperanto.
posted by languagehat at 9:58 AM on September 22, 2006
It's not that it sounds off to me (though it does to my inner snoot), it's that it sounded to me like a usage you perhaps wouldn't have adopted. 'Sall. No biggie.
posted by DenOfSizer at 10:22 AM on September 22, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 10:22 AM on September 22, 2006
I check into AskMe once a day for about five minutes. I tend to read the blue (and gray) more, and comment there more. I'm also... How you say... Verbose? (And "My Comments" makes it so much easier to just jump in surgically).
posted by klangklangston at 10:37 AM on September 22, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 10:37 AM on September 22, 2006
Re: Klangklangston--of course he can do all that in five minutes a day--he lives in A2 where all things are possible--except succinctness and humility. OK, it is just up the road and where I went to school.
posted by rmhsinc at 12:39 PM on September 22, 2006
posted by rmhsinc at 12:39 PM on September 22, 2006
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posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:52 PM on September 21, 2006