Jobs September 27, 2006 11:07 AM Subscribe
In the time it took me to read this "job" and write this post, I could have billed them for the amount they are offering.
You bill at $100/minute?
posted by RustyBrooks at 11:12 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by RustyBrooks at 11:12 AM on September 27, 2006
I agree, but I knew it was inevitable. People paying out of their pocket for help with their blog or their side-work don't tend to pay a lot of money and junior designers often do the work for the experience instead of the money.
But really, there's no simple way for me to come up with fair pay guidelines that apply worldwide and for every profession out there.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:13 AM on September 27, 2006
But really, there's no simple way for me to come up with fair pay guidelines that apply worldwide and for every profession out there.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:13 AM on September 27, 2006
Ceci n'est pas un callout.
posted by interrobang at 11:13 AM on September 27, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by interrobang at 11:13 AM on September 27, 2006 [2 favorites]
So what makes this an unreal job, and a $1000 one-off contract a real job? Or is there just a Thing where no designer will do any work for under a grand?
posted by mendel at 11:14 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by mendel at 11:14 AM on September 27, 2006
I totally disagree. I wouldn't mind picking up odd jobs for 200-500 bucks a pop. Not all of us here are well paid tech dweebs who bill 100 bucks an hour. (not that you are a dweeb...)
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 11:14 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 11:14 AM on September 27, 2006
I'm citing this post as an example of what Jobs shouldn't become – a kind of glorified craigslist where people offer an ipod or, as in this case, a couple benjamins in exchange for skilled labor.
This should have been your first sentence, it explained things well. Instead, you must prepare yourself for ritual metatalk ridicule.
For example:
"ooooh, what a good designer you must be!"
posted by poppo at 11:14 AM on September 27, 2006
This should have been your first sentence, it explained things well. Instead, you must prepare yourself for ritual metatalk ridicule.
For example:
"ooooh, what a good designer you must be!"
posted by poppo at 11:14 AM on September 27, 2006
All snarkiness aside, I took on web projects when I was in college for side money, and I charged $25/hour, and to me it was a lot because most of the alternatives where $10/hour. At $25/hour, $500 is 20 hours of work. And yeah, it wouldn't be as skilled as what a top of the line designer would put out, but it would probably be worth it for all parties involved.
posted by RustyBrooks at 11:16 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by RustyBrooks at 11:16 AM on September 27, 2006
I could have billed them for the amount they are offering.
then you are not the dork they're looking for.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:17 AM on September 27, 2006 [3 favorites]
then you are not the dork they're looking for.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:17 AM on September 27, 2006 [3 favorites]
Ooooh, what a good des—
God damn it, poppo, you totally cockblocked my snark! What am I supposed to do now, respond in a civil and constructive manner? FUCK THAT NOISE!
posted by cortex at 11:18 AM on September 27, 2006
God damn it, poppo, you totally cockblocked my snark! What am I supposed to do now, respond in a civil and constructive manner? FUCK THAT NOISE!
posted by cortex at 11:18 AM on September 27, 2006
This should have been your first sentence, it explained things well.
Yes, but folks around here are suckers for the molotov approach to posts and I figured it would generate more comments for the amusement of all.
You may all resume being mind-controlled by me.
posted by quadog at 11:19 AM on September 27, 2006
Yes, but folks around here are suckers for the molotov approach to posts and I figured it would generate more comments for the amusement of all.
You may all resume being mind-controlled by me.
posted by quadog at 11:19 AM on September 27, 2006
Well, don't post that as a job to Jobs, because that will result in a callout
posted by poppo at 11:26 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by poppo at 11:26 AM on September 27, 2006
Different jobs are aimed at different people-- if you're not interested, move on. I don't think the poster needs you to protect them.
posted by InfidelZombie at 11:27 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by InfidelZombie at 11:27 AM on September 27, 2006
Different jobs are aimed at different people-- if you're not interested, move on. I don't think the poster needs you to protect them.
This needed to be repeated and pretty much says it all.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:30 AM on September 27, 2006
This needed to be repeated and pretty much says it all.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:30 AM on September 27, 2006
I don't think the poster needs you to protect them.
I don't either, but I think the idea here is that quadog wants to be protected from job offers that are unworthy of his (or her) consideration. I think we can hold off at least until we have 100 jobs total before adding a search-by-pay-rate option.
In other words, "ooooh, what a good designer you must be!"
posted by scottreynen at 11:33 AM on September 27, 2006
I don't either, but I think the idea here is that quadog wants to be protected from job offers that are unworthy of his (or her) consideration. I think we can hold off at least until we have 100 jobs total before adding a search-by-pay-rate option.
In other words, "ooooh, what a good designer you must be!"
posted by scottreynen at 11:33 AM on September 27, 2006
In the time it took me to read this thread, I could've done something other than read this thread.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:36 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:36 AM on September 27, 2006
At the rate of 2-3 job posts every few days I think it's too early to worry about what may just be an exception.
Now you've wasted all of our joint time with this metatalk thread - not just your own.
posted by vacapinta at 11:37 AM on September 27, 2006
Now you've wasted all of our joint time with this metatalk thread - not just your own.
posted by vacapinta at 11:37 AM on September 27, 2006
I like the idea of a user-side filter option for displaying jobs with specific salary ranges. It will eliminate the noise caused by people offering free beer to design Grandma Ethel's Jazzercise Club logo.
And yes, I'm a fucking incredible designer. I'm billing you all for my time as we speak!
posted by quadog at 11:40 AM on September 27, 2006
And yes, I'm a fucking incredible designer. I'm billing you all for my time as we speak!
posted by quadog at 11:40 AM on September 27, 2006
Yeah, there are a few gigs on jobs I could have done but didn't feel I could offer to do because of the rate, or because it a flat rate was offered but the requirements seemed too elastic.
But I don't mind the low rates. People will pay what they think the work is worth, and people trying to skimp on pay are going to find they don't always get what they wanted.
It would be nice if gig posters (as opposed to those seeking full-time employees) could be as specific as possible about what they expect for what they are paying.
That said, I think there's a wealth of talent on Mefi, and I really like the opportunity to help out my fellow Mefites if I can.
Not through jobs, but through askMefi, I recently completed a very brief project for a fellow Mefite's company for in the $1000-$2000 range, and I really enjoyed doing it. His requirement was clearly stated and thorough, the job was a nice challenge, in the sense you say to yourself, "yeah, I bet I can fix that", I learned some stuff, my deliverable was (I think) nicely packaged, his payment was prompt, and it was cool to help a fellow Mefite.
And he (my client) wrote me an awesome recommendation letter, for which I profusely thank him. That just made me feel wonderful! (I don't mention his Mefi handle only because I haven't asked him if that's OK.)
posted by orthogonality at 11:41 AM on September 27, 2006
But I don't mind the low rates. People will pay what they think the work is worth, and people trying to skimp on pay are going to find they don't always get what they wanted.
It would be nice if gig posters (as opposed to those seeking full-time employees) could be as specific as possible about what they expect for what they are paying.
That said, I think there's a wealth of talent on Mefi, and I really like the opportunity to help out my fellow Mefites if I can.
Not through jobs, but through askMefi, I recently completed a very brief project for a fellow Mefite's company for in the $1000-$2000 range, and I really enjoyed doing it. His requirement was clearly stated and thorough, the job was a nice challenge, in the sense you say to yourself, "yeah, I bet I can fix that", I learned some stuff, my deliverable was (I think) nicely packaged, his payment was prompt, and it was cool to help a fellow Mefite.
And he (my client) wrote me an awesome recommendation letter, for which I profusely thank him. That just made me feel wonderful! (I don't mention his Mefi handle only because I haven't asked him if that's OK.)
posted by orthogonality at 11:41 AM on September 27, 2006
The real problem is when people offer $50 for a logo, and invite submissions, and only the best gets paid.
That's a real lame job.
posted by smackfu at 11:45 AM on September 27, 2006
That's a real lame job.
posted by smackfu at 11:45 AM on September 27, 2006
Oh, just to be clear: I did not use askMefi to solicit a contract; the asker specifically asked me to contact him about doing the job.
posted by orthogonality at 11:51 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by orthogonality at 11:51 AM on September 27, 2006
Quadog, I think you are wrong. When I was in college, I would have killed for things like this. A couple hundred bucks for a day or two of design work? That could have bought.. uh.. *counts on fingers*.. eight kegs of Saranac Amber. What Jobs doesn't need to become is the kind of place where you see seven hundred job listings in a row from the same stupid headhunter agency. Shotgunning listings is the single most damaging act facing web job listing sites. I think limiting to one post per day is probably the best thing that Matt could have done did to keep Jobs real.
posted by Plutor at 11:55 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by Plutor at 11:55 AM on September 27, 2006
I would totally kill for an iPod.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 11:59 AM on September 27, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 11:59 AM on September 27, 2006
interrobang: Ceci n'est pas un callout.
I'm going to have to pull a red card on that one. Callout is obviously feminine, despite its racine en anglais . Alors, celle-ci n'est pas une callout.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:02 PM on September 27, 2006
I'm going to have to pull a red card on that one. Callout is obviously feminine, despite its racine en anglais . Alors, celle-ci n'est pas une callout.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:02 PM on September 27, 2006
Is this one of those "we should discourage people from asking/taking less than the union/guild/association base rate, because then the rate inevitably drops and then we professionals can't afford our BMW payments anymore" things?
posted by solid-one-love at 12:03 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by solid-one-love at 12:03 PM on September 27, 2006
When I was in college, I would have killed for things like this.
As stated above, craigslist already offers this type of service. Do we all really want Jobs to become craigslist? Really? It's a serious question.
posted by quadog at 12:04 PM on September 27, 2006
As stated above, craigslist already offers this type of service. Do we all really want Jobs to become craigslist? Really? It's a serious question.
posted by quadog at 12:04 PM on September 27, 2006
Craigslist, despite what it calls itself, is not a community.
Metafilter, for better or for worse, pretty much IS.
Metafilter will never become craigslist.
posted by dersins at 12:39 PM on September 27, 2006
Metafilter, for better or for worse, pretty much IS.
Metafilter will never become craigslist.
posted by dersins at 12:39 PM on September 27, 2006
No, I don't think anyone wants Jobs to turn into Craigslist, but the common-sense gap between where Jobs is right now compared to Craigslist is so mindbogglingly huge that the question doesn't make much sense. I'd expect we'd have to take more than a shaky two steps down that miles-long path before it merits anything other than abstract pondering.
posted by cortex at 12:40 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by cortex at 12:40 PM on September 27, 2006
I would totally kill for an iPod.
Thank you for your interest in this position. While we decided to go with another candidate at this time, we will keep your resume and salary requirements on hand for any future openings in our assassination department.
posted by scottreynen at 12:47 PM on September 27, 2006
Thank you for your interest in this position. While we decided to go with another candidate at this time, we will keep your resume and salary requirements on hand for any future openings in our assassination department.
posted by scottreynen at 12:47 PM on September 27, 2006
When I was in college, I killed Craig.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:49 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:49 PM on September 27, 2006
Speaking of Craigslist, how about a MetaFilter "Missed Connections" page? "I saw your comment in thread 54068. It was really funny and insightful, but I was too shy to quote it and say 'Bears repeating.' By the time I got up the nerve, the thread was closed. If you wanna chat about torture legislation some time, e-mail's in my profile."
posted by brain_drain at 12:49 PM on September 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by brain_drain at 12:49 PM on September 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
I would totally kill for an iPod.
If you know php and don't mind if the ipod is old, I have a job for you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:51 PM on September 27, 2006
If you know php and don't mind if the ipod is old, I have a job for you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:51 PM on September 27, 2006
Abstract pondering? Sounds like the job for me! I can extrapolate this Jobs situation to unheard-of degrees.
So, is it by the hour or by the pound? Or by the ponder?
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 12:51 PM on September 27, 2006
So, is it by the hour or by the pound? Or by the ponder?
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 12:51 PM on September 27, 2006
Get back to work, all of you.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:02 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:02 PM on September 27, 2006
You can bill me!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:04 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:04 PM on September 27, 2006
That's what I told the duck before things got ugly.
posted by brain_drain at 1:08 PM on September 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by brain_drain at 1:08 PM on September 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
DuckFeetFilter: Best of the webbed
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:09 PM on September 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:09 PM on September 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
Metafilter totally needs a casual encounters section.
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:12 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:12 PM on September 27, 2006
>> I would totally kill for an iPod.
If you know php and don't mind if the ipod is old, I have a job for you.
What can you kill with PHP?
posted by timeistight at 1:23 PM on September 27, 2006
If you know php and don't mind if the ipod is old, I have a job for you.
What can you kill with PHP?
posted by timeistight at 1:23 PM on September 27, 2006
Interesting, I was about to post here asking if it would be legit to post to jobs with a totally trivial bit of server admin type stuff that would be really easy for someone with the relevant skills and take maybe an hour tops - ie. something that is more of a task than a job, which is worth, I dunno, $100 to me, because it would take $100 of my time to learn how to do it (plus $500 of my time to fix when I fucked it all up!).
And, er, going by this thread, the answer would be both 'no way!' and 'yes of course!'.
posted by jack_mo at 1:25 PM on September 27, 2006
And, er, going by this thread, the answer would be both 'no way!' and 'yes of course!'.
posted by jack_mo at 1:25 PM on September 27, 2006
Yes, of course! Seriously, with Jobs updated so infrequently, ongoing experiments with valid uses of the section seem like a good idea. If you post a job that no reasonable person would take, no one will take it.
If we see ten of those a week, that'll be something. But we haven't.
posted by cortex at 1:30 PM on September 27, 2006
If we see ten of those a week, that'll be something. But we haven't.
posted by cortex at 1:30 PM on September 27, 2006
"What can you kill with PHP?"
Jobs.
/irony
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:35 PM on September 27, 2006
Jobs.
/irony
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:35 PM on September 27, 2006
One thing to note about the post - you can't send mac fonts. Or PC fonts. You *license* fonts, you don't own them. The end user has to buy their own font license. Anytime our studio sends files to a client, we send a list of fonts used and links to the foundry so that the client can purchase their own license.
(Just in case anyone who is tempted to take the job is reading this thread.)
posted by Salmonberry at 1:39 PM on September 27, 2006
(Just in case anyone who is tempted to take the job is reading this thread.)
posted by Salmonberry at 1:39 PM on September 27, 2006
If you're sending a PSD or an AI file you shouldn't need to send the fonts anyhow-- in Photoshop just rasterize the text, and in Illustrator, turn the text into outlines before sending the file.
posted by eustacescrubb at 1:49 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by eustacescrubb at 1:49 PM on September 27, 2006
there's no simple way for me to come up with fair pay guidelines
Nor should you. It's a marketplace. Things like fairness of pay have a way of working themselves out.
posted by scarabic at 1:52 PM on September 27, 2006
Nor should you. It's a marketplace. Things like fairness of pay have a way of working themselves out.
posted by scarabic at 1:52 PM on September 27, 2006
>> I would totally kill for an iPod.
If you know php and don't mind if the ipod is old, I have a job for you.
Who is this "php" character? And Jessamyn, what do you have against him??
posted by ml98tu at 1:56 PM on September 27, 2006
If you know php and don't mind if the ipod is old, I have a job for you.
Who is this "php" character? And Jessamyn, what do you have against him??
posted by ml98tu at 1:56 PM on September 27, 2006
solid-one-love writes "Is this one of those 'we should discourage people from asking/taking less than the union/guild/association base rate, because then the rate inevitably drops and then we professionals can't afford our BMW payments anymore' things?"
No, it's more, "what did you expect when from a lawyer the lawyer/dentist/pumber/mechanic charging $5.50 an hour?"
My rate (even my low discount, you're a non-profit/cause I support/bosom buddy rate) represents many years of experience, of schooling, of buying very expensive tech books, of studying those books and experimenting on my own with programs and algorithms, of subscribing to tech magazines, of reading and asking and answering questions and building rep on newgroups so my questions get answered, and the amortized cost of my expensive fast PC and fast DSL connection and cell phone.
And I can't charge for the time it takes to email a response, get your acceptance email, read it get an initial idea of the project scope, and negotiate a rate, -- so figure I'm spending minimum three hours just to get the job, best case.
All of that lets me do your job well and quickly and with a minimum of problems during or after.
So I can't really charge much less than my hourly, and that's for a several months gig of guaranteed eight hours a day five days a week, on a job I'm enjoying, working from home in my briefs. For brief ad hoc stuff, for travel, for indeterminate length stuff, I have to charge higher. (Sure, I'll discount for Metafilterites, but the grocery and the telephone company and the book store and Dell won't give me a Metafilter discount.)
posted by orthogonality at 1:59 PM on September 27, 2006
No, it's more, "what did you expect when from a lawyer the lawyer/dentist/pumber/mechanic charging $5.50 an hour?"
My rate (even my low discount, you're a non-profit/cause I support/bosom buddy rate) represents many years of experience, of schooling, of buying very expensive tech books, of studying those books and experimenting on my own with programs and algorithms, of subscribing to tech magazines, of reading and asking and answering questions and building rep on newgroups so my questions get answered, and the amortized cost of my expensive fast PC and fast DSL connection and cell phone.
And I can't charge for the time it takes to email a response, get your acceptance email, read it get an initial idea of the project scope, and negotiate a rate, -- so figure I'm spending minimum three hours just to get the job, best case.
All of that lets me do your job well and quickly and with a minimum of problems during or after.
So I can't really charge much less than my hourly, and that's for a several months gig of guaranteed eight hours a day five days a week, on a job I'm enjoying, working from home in my briefs. For brief ad hoc stuff, for travel, for indeterminate length stuff, I have to charge higher. (Sure, I'll discount for Metafilterites, but the grocery and the telephone company and the book store and Dell won't give me a Metafilter discount.)
posted by orthogonality at 1:59 PM on September 27, 2006
I'm just waiting for the ads seeking entry-level attorneys in Chicago.
Anybody?
posted by MrZero at 2:15 PM on September 27, 2006
Anybody?
posted by MrZero at 2:15 PM on September 27, 2006
If I post a design gig on Jobs, which I may do, I might as well put "quadog need not apply" on the bottom.
I can't afford your rates. I'd love to be able to, but I can't. This is not to say that some protoquadog might not be willing to work for the rates I can afford.
posted by Kickstart70 at 2:36 PM on September 27, 2006
I can't afford your rates. I'd love to be able to, but I can't. This is not to say that some protoquadog might not be willing to work for the rates I can afford.
posted by Kickstart70 at 2:36 PM on September 27, 2006
I'm billing you all for my time as we speak!
So that's where my money's been going! Damn you, quadog!
posted by languagehat at 2:37 PM on September 27, 2006
So that's where my money's been going! Damn you, quadog!
posted by languagehat at 2:37 PM on September 27, 2006
No, it's more, "what did you expect when from a lawyer the lawyer/dentist/pumber/mechanic charging $5.50 an hour?"
Chyeah. Y'know what? I'm a technical arts guy, too, with umpteen years of experience, and I like to get paid my professional rate, but we ain't lawyers or dentists or even plumbers or framers or assistant carpenter trainees. Nobody dies and (except in exceptional cases that speak more to poor project management than to unskilled labour) nobody loses their job if we do our work badly.
It's apples and oranges. However many hours you or I put into our training is not especially relevant. That you aren't charging proposal time is your own business decision; I sure as hell do.
Graphic design, editing, webmonkey work -- this is the kind of stuff that a trainee, student, new graduate and the like should be able to do for ten percent of what I get.
I have no problem with this.
posted by solid-one-love at 2:46 PM on September 27, 2006
Chyeah. Y'know what? I'm a technical arts guy, too, with umpteen years of experience, and I like to get paid my professional rate, but we ain't lawyers or dentists or even plumbers or framers or assistant carpenter trainees. Nobody dies and (except in exceptional cases that speak more to poor project management than to unskilled labour) nobody loses their job if we do our work badly.
It's apples and oranges. However many hours you or I put into our training is not especially relevant. That you aren't charging proposal time is your own business decision; I sure as hell do.
Graphic design, editing, webmonkey work -- this is the kind of stuff that a trainee, student, new graduate and the like should be able to do for ten percent of what I get.
I have no problem with this.
posted by solid-one-love at 2:46 PM on September 27, 2006
Um, and hello? You're all forgetting that there are a lot of graphic designers and web professionals in the world who aren't earning top US dollar salaries. My company just contracted an excellent Sydney designer to come up with a new site design for us, and the total cost was about AUD $850 (US $600 or so). Granted, he gave us a bit of a discount since we're giving him more work, but still. There are plenty of actual professional designers outside the US who'd be happy to earn US $500 for a quick job. (I know this particular job gave a location of California, but there's are plenty others that don't.) So please, Matt, do NOT listen to suggestions to require a minimum salary amount or to filter by salary or anything like that. The rest of us shouldn't miss out on opportunities because a few sniffy "professionals" in the States think the jobs are beneath them.
posted by web-goddess at 3:11 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by web-goddess at 3:11 PM on September 27, 2006
Exactly, web-goddess. Also, there are lots of people starting off in any given field who would be happy to do simple jobs for the experience and to add to their portfolio - the cash is a bonus.
Just because some people won't get out of bed for less than $5k doesn't make them any more important or hireable than those who are prepared to work for what they are worth.
posted by dg at 3:59 PM on September 27, 2006
Just because some people won't get out of bed for less than $5k doesn't make them any more important or hireable than those who are prepared to work for what they are worth.
posted by dg at 3:59 PM on September 27, 2006
I like the idea of a user-side filter option for displaying jobs with specific salary ranges.
Or, alternately, you could ignore job solicitations that don't meet your personal salary requirements. Of course, that doesn't require any work from Matt, so it may not be a satisfactory solution.
posted by mediareport at 4:03 PM on September 27, 2006
Or, alternately, you could ignore job solicitations that don't meet your personal salary requirements. Of course, that doesn't require any work from Matt, so it may not be a satisfactory solution.
posted by mediareport at 4:03 PM on September 27, 2006
anyone looking to hire a college student to do, say, a brand audit and market research along with a comprehensive identity and advertising package would be well served to know you get what you pay for
I would guess that true lowballs get no responses or very unimpressive responses. This one in particular asked for work samples. This will work itself out with no intervention from Matt.
posted by scarabic at 4:13 PM on September 27, 2006
I would guess that true lowballs get no responses or very unimpressive responses. This one in particular asked for work samples. This will work itself out with no intervention from Matt.
posted by scarabic at 4:13 PM on September 27, 2006
yes, what web-goddess said. Give me four or five small design jobs a week at $500 a pop while I'm waiting for that $10,000 job that's sure to come in any moment.
posted by taz at 4:20 PM on September 27, 2006
posted by taz at 4:20 PM on September 27, 2006
What if I posted a job exclusively for Matt where he created salary filtering for Jobs? I would pay him with $200, a used iPod and a 6 pack of Leinenkugel's. Then everyone would be happy.
In all seriousness, I retract my earlier suggestion of placing a minimum salary requirement. As others have pointed out, it's untenable. I also completely disagree with those of you who either don't see the true value of an experienced skill set or who simply see Jobs as occupying the same lowest common denominator as Craigslist. The latter is not a problem now, but that's my forecast.
I honestly think that giving the user the ability to filter what's displayed based on salary would go a long way to resolving the problem. That's pony I'd like Matt to consider.
posted by quadog at 4:28 PM on September 27, 2006
In all seriousness, I retract my earlier suggestion of placing a minimum salary requirement. As others have pointed out, it's untenable. I also completely disagree with those of you who either don't see the true value of an experienced skill set or who simply see Jobs as occupying the same lowest common denominator as Craigslist. The latter is not a problem now, but that's my forecast.
I honestly think that giving the user the ability to filter what's displayed based on salary would go a long way to resolving the problem. That's pony I'd like Matt to consider.
posted by quadog at 4:28 PM on September 27, 2006
quadog: "What if I posted a job exclusively for Matt where he created salary filtering for Jobs? I would pay him with $200, a used iPod and a 6 pack of Leinenkugel's. Then everyone would be happy."
This is a trend that I think a lot of people would like to see. Jobs would become an auction house for new MeFi features. I have a short list of my own.
posted by Plutor at 5:15 PM on September 27, 2006
This is a trend that I think a lot of people would like to see. Jobs would become an auction house for new MeFi features. I have a short list of my own.
posted by Plutor at 5:15 PM on September 27, 2006
I'm just waiting for the ads seeking entry-level attorneys in Chicago.MrZero, I can't help with jobs.meta, but martindale.com has a jobs section....
posted by Karmakaze at 6:28 PM on September 27, 2006
Jobs would become an auction house for new MeFi features.
don't see why not now. I've seen Matt say that he'd implement ponies if someone would "code 'em up." and there's always that Greasemonkey thingamajib. willing to pay a coupla hunnerd old iPods for a pony that you'll feed and play with every day? post in the gray, post in the white, and bingo.
posted by carsonb at 7:14 PM on September 27, 2006
don't see why not now. I've seen Matt say that he'd implement ponies if someone would "code 'em up." and there's always that Greasemonkey thingamajib. willing to pay a coupla hunnerd old iPods for a pony that you'll feed and play with every day? post in the gray, post in the white, and bingo.
posted by carsonb at 7:14 PM on September 27, 2006
Thanks, karmakaze. I've been checking out Martindale, along with about 15 other websites...daily...
waiting...
posted by MrZero at 8:14 PM on September 27, 2006
waiting...
posted by MrZero at 8:14 PM on September 27, 2006
What if I posted a job exclusively for Matt where he created salary filtering for Jobs? I would pay him with $200, a used iPod and a 6 pack of Leinenkugel's. Then everyone would be happy.
There is no "problem" to solve here, except that you are disgusted by the posting of someone you feel undervalues your skills. For fuck's sake, move on.
posted by scarabic at 9:17 PM on September 27, 2006
There is no "problem" to solve here, except that you are disgusted by the posting of someone you feel undervalues your skills. For fuck's sake, move on.
posted by scarabic at 9:17 PM on September 27, 2006
Good grief, I was thinking of posting a simple redesign request on Jobs for my website, and I can't afford HALF what they offered. Maybe I'll go beg someone on DeviantArt instead.
posted by IndigoRain at 7:27 AM on September 28, 2006
posted by IndigoRain at 7:27 AM on September 28, 2006
The beautiful thing about supply and demand is that it continues to work in the face of whiny little egomaniacs who complain about how unfair it is.
posted by mkultra at 8:23 AM on September 28, 2006
posted by mkultra at 8:23 AM on September 28, 2006
IndigoRain-- ignore this thread and post the job, just don't expect quadog to respond to the ad.
posted by InfidelZombie at 9:12 AM on September 28, 2006
posted by InfidelZombie at 9:12 AM on September 28, 2006
Man, I can't believe it, but this is really bugging me - even more after have slept on it . What on earth do you do, quadog, that makes you around $100 per minute for design work? ... I'm just ... I'm ... speechless. And kind of dizzy. Do you work for the military?
posted by taz at 9:12 AM on September 28, 2006
posted by taz at 9:12 AM on September 28, 2006
What on earth do you do, quadog, that makes you around $100 per minute for design work?
I thought it was evident I was using hyperbole to make a point.
I had hoped that this thread would spark a discussion about appropriate and inappropriate uses of MefiJobs. Look, I know there are people out there who don't have a lot of cash to spend on certain services. If you can pay next to nothing and still get what you want then more power to you (and the other sweatshop overlords). But there are other sites that specialize in that kind of lowest common denominator type of offer. Just as metafilter is ostensibly the "best of the web" I am on the side of making MefiJobs the "best of job opportunities". Understanding that some of you want to engage in a suckfest, it was suggested that users be given the ability to filter what they see on the page. This is a sensible compromise but I also acknowledge that it's probably too soon to see if it's necessary. Based on the fact that some folks up-thread are poised to lower the bar even further my magic 8 ball says, "Outlook not so good."
posted by quadog at 10:38 AM on September 28, 2006
I thought it was evident I was using hyperbole to make a point.
I had hoped that this thread would spark a discussion about appropriate and inappropriate uses of MefiJobs. Look, I know there are people out there who don't have a lot of cash to spend on certain services. If you can pay next to nothing and still get what you want then more power to you (and the other sweatshop overlords). But there are other sites that specialize in that kind of lowest common denominator type of offer. Just as metafilter is ostensibly the "best of the web" I am on the side of making MefiJobs the "best of job opportunities". Understanding that some of you want to engage in a suckfest, it was suggested that users be given the ability to filter what they see on the page. This is a sensible compromise but I also acknowledge that it's probably too soon to see if it's necessary. Based on the fact that some folks up-thread are poised to lower the bar even further my magic 8 ball says, "Outlook not so good."
posted by quadog at 10:38 AM on September 28, 2006
"sweatshop overlords"? "lower the bar even further"?
Does it register at all to you how unbelievably condescending you continue to be in this thread?
posted by mkultra at 11:06 AM on September 28, 2006
Does it register at all to you how unbelievably condescending you continue to be in this thread?
posted by mkultra at 11:06 AM on September 28, 2006
and don't forget, "Understanding that some of you want to engage in a suckfest".
I think we have a winner!
posted by taz at 11:36 AM on September 28, 2006
I think we have a winner!
posted by taz at 11:36 AM on September 28, 2006
I also completely disagree with those of you who ... simply see Jobs as occupying the same lowest common denominator as Craigslist.
I'm sorry, I don't really know why this is seen as a problem. Do you get upset when people post AskMe questions that have no relevance to your life? Jobs is here to provide Mefi users with a platform to hire other users, if you want to filter it then just use your scroll button.
posted by hugsnkisses at 11:53 AM on September 28, 2006
I'm sorry, I don't really know why this is seen as a problem. Do you get upset when people post AskMe questions that have no relevance to your life? Jobs is here to provide Mefi users with a platform to hire other users, if you want to filter it then just use your scroll button.
posted by hugsnkisses at 11:53 AM on September 28, 2006
If you can pay next to nothing and still get what you want then more power to you (and the other sweatshop overlords).
Good lord. I withdrew a couple of "fuckyouesque" comments from my above posts but now I almost with I'd left them in.
But there are other sites that specialize in that kind of lowest common denominator type of offer. Just as metafilter is ostensibly the "best of the web" I am on the side of making MefiJobs the "best of job opportunities".
Why are you hung up on high-paying as "best?" Obviously you are only thinking of ONE side of the equation: the job-seeker. Well who do you think is making all the posts? Pay is a negotiation between two parties. You want to avoid having to have that negotiation at all and that's just naive.
Understanding that some of you want to engage in a suckfest, it was suggested that users be given the ability to filter what they see on the page. This is a sensible compromise
A "sensible compromise" between what you want and what no one else seems to think is a problem at all. At this point I am really regretting my restraint. All users who have bad feature ideas try to slip them in with the old "it could be a checkbox you could turn off" trick, and your "filter by salary" suggestion is just more of the same.
How would your little filtering idea even work? You've got jobs with annual, monthly, weekly salaries, plus hourly contract jobs, and one-time-fee jobs. Most folks have a range they are willing to offer and accept, and what's "high" in one part of the country is "bad" in another. We've got multiple currencies on the site as well, and a variety of industries with different scales of what's normal and what's not. You really think you can normalize all that into a convenient little slider with "shit jobs" on one end and "best of the web" on the other? Let's see your invaluable skills put to work on a spec for this magical feature. IMHO this all comprises a vague goal and an ill-supported argument for it. Since it takes someone else's work to accommodate you, I think it's more or less a non-idea, and your suggestion is less than reasonable. I guess other peoples' non-enthusiasm for your non-ideas constitutes a "suckfest." It must be hard being you.
Perhaps with your invaluable skills and the many others who surely agree with you, you can get a greasemonkey extension whipped up.
And then you can charge everyone else who wants to use it.
posted by scarabic at 6:09 PM on September 28, 2006
Good lord. I withdrew a couple of "fuckyouesque" comments from my above posts but now I almost with I'd left them in.
But there are other sites that specialize in that kind of lowest common denominator type of offer. Just as metafilter is ostensibly the "best of the web" I am on the side of making MefiJobs the "best of job opportunities".
Why are you hung up on high-paying as "best?" Obviously you are only thinking of ONE side of the equation: the job-seeker. Well who do you think is making all the posts? Pay is a negotiation between two parties. You want to avoid having to have that negotiation at all and that's just naive.
Understanding that some of you want to engage in a suckfest, it was suggested that users be given the ability to filter what they see on the page. This is a sensible compromise
A "sensible compromise" between what you want and what no one else seems to think is a problem at all. At this point I am really regretting my restraint. All users who have bad feature ideas try to slip them in with the old "it could be a checkbox you could turn off" trick, and your "filter by salary" suggestion is just more of the same.
How would your little filtering idea even work? You've got jobs with annual, monthly, weekly salaries, plus hourly contract jobs, and one-time-fee jobs. Most folks have a range they are willing to offer and accept, and what's "high" in one part of the country is "bad" in another. We've got multiple currencies on the site as well, and a variety of industries with different scales of what's normal and what's not. You really think you can normalize all that into a convenient little slider with "shit jobs" on one end and "best of the web" on the other? Let's see your invaluable skills put to work on a spec for this magical feature. IMHO this all comprises a vague goal and an ill-supported argument for it. Since it takes someone else's work to accommodate you, I think it's more or less a non-idea, and your suggestion is less than reasonable. I guess other peoples' non-enthusiasm for your non-ideas constitutes a "suckfest." It must be hard being you.
Perhaps with your invaluable skills and the many others who surely agree with you, you can get a greasemonkey extension whipped up.
And then you can charge everyone else who wants to use it.
posted by scarabic at 6:09 PM on September 28, 2006
Just as metafilter is ostensibly the "best of the web" I am on the side of making MefiJobs the "best of job opportunities".
I think that's a poor connection to make. MetaFilter is not the best of the web by definition. it is a community that discusses the best of the web*. MefiJobs is a self-service of that community. the focus of MefiJobs is on the community, and not on the web. so, fortunately or unfortunately, that 'best of the x' tag doesn't carry over. and that sweatshop overlord dig was a low blow. poor form!
*in my honest opinion, the resulting discussion often is the best of the web. often you people are the best of the web. thanks for that.
posted by carsonb at 6:44 PM on September 28, 2006
I think that's a poor connection to make. MetaFilter is not the best of the web by definition. it is a community that discusses the best of the web*. MefiJobs is a self-service of that community. the focus of MefiJobs is on the community, and not on the web. so, fortunately or unfortunately, that 'best of the x' tag doesn't carry over. and that sweatshop overlord dig was a low blow. poor form!
*in my honest opinion, the resulting discussion often is the best of the web. often you people are the best of the web. thanks for that.
posted by carsonb at 6:44 PM on September 28, 2006
This is a sensible compromise
Oh, please. The sensible compromise is you skipping posts that don't interest you. quadog, you're really making yourself look bad here. Really.
posted by mediareport at 7:02 PM on September 28, 2006
Oh, please. The sensible compromise is you skipping posts that don't interest you. quadog, you're really making yourself look bad here. Really.
posted by mediareport at 7:02 PM on September 28, 2006
I am on the side of making MefiJobs the "best of job opportunities".
It was built was a place to help mefi members hire each other. That's all it was designed for. It has no pretenses of trying to be cream of the crop jobs only.
Carry on.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:46 AM on September 29, 2006
It was built was a place to help mefi members hire each other. That's all it was designed for. It has no pretenses of trying to be cream of the crop jobs only.
Carry on.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:46 AM on September 29, 2006
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
I must underscore that this is not a callout. I'm also trying to shield the folks offering the job from working with an amateur pixel-pusher who will undoubtedly leave them with a awful product at the expense of their time and money.
posted by quadog at 11:07 AM on September 27, 2006