sockpuppetry

October 2, 2006 12:50 AM

jonson/lilbrudder makes 2 posts within 15 minutes of each other. skallas 2001 revisited? Does jonson/lilbrudder get a pass?
posted by tellurian to Etiquette/Policy at 12:50 AM (81 comments total)

mathowie: The rule was obviously made for people that don't know how to find good links or write good posts.

They are both good posts IMNSHO. So yeah, jonson gets a pass.
posted by sveskemus at 2:23 AM on October 2, 2006

posted by mathowie at 9:07 AM JST on July 8, 2006
"The weird varied rates of x posts per y days is due to controlling the flow of posts. People rarely post more than once in a while on MeFi, but back in the day when that was all there was to the site, the one a day (and one a week was discussed) limit was to keep anyone from hogging the community resource, and keeping things to a manageable 20-30 posts a day. These days, it's mostly social pressure that keeps things down around 20 posts per day."
posted by tellurian at 3:04 AM on October 2, 2006

thank you mr. snitchwell.
posted by quonsar at 4:10 AM on October 2, 2006

You couldn't even link to them?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 4:29 AM on October 2, 2006

These days, it's mostly social pressure that keeps things down around 20 posts per day.

Come on folks, get with the social pressure! We hate you, jonson, and your porcelain Cthulu!
posted by Plutor at 4:33 AM on October 2, 2006

That guy causes nothing but trouble.
posted by thirteenkiller at 4:56 AM on October 2, 2006

BAN HIM!
posted by crunchland at 5:01 AM on October 2, 2006

You couldn't even link to them?
They're here and here. What's up with you, spoon fall out your mouth?
quonsar: snitchwell?
posted by tellurian at 5:04 AM on October 2, 2006

While I didn't find the cthulu thing all that funny (I don't get the cthulu love, really), what exactly is the problem with this? We allow people to use sockpuppets to get around the 1 question/week limit, why not allow sockpuppets for adding multiple links, if they're good enough? (Whether or not these links are good enough is another question entirely, but that's for the flag queue/Jessahowie to decide)
posted by antifuse at 5:47 AM on October 2, 2006

On reflection, I see that this post may have come off a bit snarky. It wasn't meant so. There has been some question of late regarding AskMe questions circumventing the time barrier and I was wondering what the consensus was on making posts to the blue. I mean, it's not as if it's as blatant as this and this.
Yours
Mr. Snitchwell
posted by tellurian at 5:56 AM on October 2, 2006

My opinion, and jonson knows this, is even though he makes great posts consistently, he shouldn't be using his sock puppet to skirt the 24 hour rule. We'll sometimes make an exception for the rare instance (esp in AskMe where time sensitivity is essential), but this isn't the first time this has happened. The fact that these two posts occurred less than 20 minutes apart seems to indicate either temporary insanity, PWD, pushing the envelope on the 24 hour rule, or some other reason I haven't considered. I'll let mathowie mete out whatever justice he feels is appropriate since it's an edgecase and MeFi is more his den than mine.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:18 AM on October 2, 2006

It was the House of the Lord, and you have turned it into a den of thieves.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:24 AM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

MeFi is more his den than mine.
posted by matteo at 6:24 AM on October 2, 2006

Perhaps jonson is pursuing an aggressive brand of front-page feng shui that can only be managed through the juxtaposition of two zen-complementary posts.
posted by cortex at 6:28 AM on October 2, 2006

Holy flippin' Jeebus.
Do you record the dates of five-year-old violations so you can get ready to pounce if they recur? Why does this matter to you?

Seriously, I will never understand the motivations of all the by-the-numbers rule-lovers who make knee-jerk Metatalk posts for stuff like this. Why do you care? What do you think it will accomplish? Would you sit back and gleefully rub your hands together if one of these posts were to be deleted?
posted by Dr. Wu at 6:33 AM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

No reason to be so grumpy, Dr. Wu. Dude just asked a question.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:39 AM on October 2, 2006

It's glaringly obvious that jonson is schizophrenic, at best. At worst, he's suffering from multiple personalities. I say we lobotomize him, just to be safe.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:42 AM on October 2, 2006

Not grumpy. Just puzzled as to why this stuff would matter. It's not like the "integrity" of the site has been compromised or anything.
posted by Dr. Wu at 6:42 AM on October 2, 2006

If we had a captcha at login this sort of thing wouldn't happen.
posted by thirteenkiller at 6:45 AM on October 2, 2006

Well, yeah, the integrity is compromised if we have one set of rules for popular posters and another for everyone else. In this case, I don't think jonson technically broke any rules, but his sequential posts was in rather poor form and it's certainly a legitimate question.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:48 AM on October 2, 2006

The only "mistake" jonson has made here is that he's open about his sock puppet. The rest of you with secret alternate sign-ins can do what he did, and none of us would be the wiser. It's regretful that the honest person could potentially be punished for doing what deceitful people can get away with.
posted by crunchland at 6:56 AM on October 2, 2006

Who? Me?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:59 AM on October 2, 2006

crunchland writes "It's regretful that the honest person could potentially be punished for doing what deceitful people can get away with."

Geez, what the worst that is likely to happen? Matt'll delete the second post and jonson will repost it tomorrow. In the worst case librudder is banned and jonson is out less than the cost of overstaying a parking meter.
posted by Mitheral at 7:01 AM on October 2, 2006

Hey all, I can explain: the lilbrudder account is reserved for Cthulu related posts, with the caveat that he MUST post them the moment he finds them. Sometimes this causes a problem with the timing of something jonson just posted, hopefully it won't happen again.

Truthfully, if it's a question of community resources, I'd posted zero posts in the prior 48 hours, and hadn't posted twice within the 24 hour limit in months. If it's a question of agenda, clearly I had none, I just felt like putting up two different things I ran across, thought other people might enjoy them, and figured that the spare account could, every great once in a while, be dusted off and put to use, as long as it was innocuous use such as this.

Like I said, I don't do it often, and when Jess asked me not to, it seemed clear that she meant "during the month of August when there's a financial reward associated with posting". Although, to be explicit, even before I was asked, I never posted more than once every midnight to midnight period.

I'm not proposing two sets of rules for people nor that community standards suddenly take a huge shift. If what I did, was not only unusual but unnacceptable, let me know.
posted by jonson at 7:04 AM on October 2, 2006

Astro Zombie: "It was the House of the Lord, and you have turned it into a den of thieves."

When a pickpocket meets a saint, all he see are pockets.

not related to the post at hand; just like a good saying now and then.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 7:05 AM on October 2, 2006

the lilbrudder account is reserved for Cthulu related posts, with the caveat that he MUST post them the moment he finds them

this pitchfork here is reserved for pokin', with the caveat that I MUST start pokin' as soon as somebody puts a torch to the witch.
posted by eddydamascene at 7:11 AM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

MeFite #1: I say we kill him!
MeFi Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
MeFite #2: I say we hang him, then we kill him!
MeFi Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
MeFite #3: I say we stomp him!
MeFi Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
MeFite #3: Then we tattoo him!
MeFi Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
MeFite #3: Then we hang him!
MeFi Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
MeFite #3: And then we kill him!
MeFi Gang: [shouts] Yeah!
jonson: [trying to throw voice without moving lips] I say we let him go.
MeFi Gang: [shouts] No!
MeFite Mama: [whistles] I say you let me have him first
MeFi Gang: Yeah!
posted by TedW at 7:12 AM on October 2, 2006

Well I can't think of a better reason, but, then, I wasn't really bothered by it in the first place.
posted by OmieWise at 7:32 AM on October 2, 2006

He can make it on his own.
posted by sdrawkcab at 7:35 AM on October 2, 2006

mathowie! Tellurian used a no-no word!
posted by frecklefaerie at 7:38 AM on October 2, 2006

posted by Plutor at 8:02 AM on October 2, 2006

I vote for appeasement. Perhaps a sharply worded note on his permanent record. And we could cede Belgium to him. Maybe then he'll stop.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:09 AM on October 2, 2006

Mr. Snitchwell, meet the Snarkfords.
posted by brain_drain at 8:32 AM on October 2, 2006

Do you record the dates of five-year-old violations

It wasn't a violation; skallas was just asking a question about wanting to post again the morning after an afternoon post. Like tellurian is just asking a question here, and for whatever reason remembered the old discussion.

I'm not proposing two sets of rules for people

Yeah, you are, kinda.
posted by mediareport at 8:53 AM on October 2, 2006

No, I really am not. I'm not saying "I can do this, others can't", or "I can do this, and so can a select few, but most aren't allowed to". I'm just posting a link to something, which anyone else with multiple accounts can do. Multiple accounts are open to anyone.
posted by jonson at 8:58 AM on October 2, 2006

...

BAN HIM!
posted by crunchland at 9:00 AM on October 2, 2006

I'm not proposing two sets of rules for people...

Maybe not for people, but certainly for different sections of the website. It's my understanding that we've established a clear community consensus that using sock puppets to evade posting restrictions on AskMe is wrong. Obviously MetaFilter and AskMe have their differences, but should this be one of them? (I don't think so.)
posted by cribcage at 9:25 AM on October 2, 2006

There already are different sets of rules for different parts of the website, cribcage; one post a day in the blue, one every four days in the grey, one a week in the green, one a month in Projects. Not sure about Jobs & Music, but seriously, is this even worth debating? If Matt or Jess want it to be different, we'll find out, my post will be deleted or the account will be banned or whatever. Regardless, Cthulhu won't be pleased.
posted by jonson at 9:28 AM on October 2, 2006

omg jonson how culd u???
posted by thirteenkiller at 9:40 AM on October 2, 2006

the integrity is compromised if we have one set of rules for popular posters and another for everyone else

Don't be absurd. Popular posters are popular because they are good posters. Why on earth would we want to hold them back so that not-good posters can spew crap to the front page?

MeFi should operate in part as a meritocracy: when someone is a highly-valued, hot-damn contributor, that person deserves a whole lot more latitude than some dipshit pepsi-blue promoter.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:41 AM on October 2, 2006

You're either missing or ignoring my point — which isn't whether MetaFilter's posting restrictions are different than AskMe's, but whether it's OK to use sock puppets to evade posting restrictions on one area of the site when we've agreed that it's not OK on another.

is this even worth debating?

Well, the thread's open. The topic seems appropriate for an "etiquette/policy" discussion; and I'd add that if Jessamyn indicates that she's unsure what to do, then it's reasonable to take the community's pulse. It seems to me that, self-links and flameouts aside, these conversations are precisely what MeTa is for.
posted by cribcage at 9:46 AM on October 2, 2006

eh, you know what I hate? When it seems we are building some momentum to a good old fashioned community blood lust, and then the poster in question comes in and acts reasonably. If you can't flameout, jonson, can't you at least throw a few sparks? I am tired of this incessant meta teasing. When was the last spectacular flameout or blood-letting brouhaha?
posted by madamjujujive at 9:49 AM on October 2, 2006

Thank God for the Sock-Puppet Police. Because of their vigilance, I can sleep safer.
posted by exlotuseater at 10:01 AM on October 2, 2006

If you can't flameout, jonson, can't you at least throw a few sparks

I'm waiting for y2karl to flameout so I can come along and try and deflect the attention back to myself.
posted by jonson at 10:11 AM on October 2, 2006

Think of the children! Won't somebody please think of the children?
posted by thirteenkiller at 10:14 AM on October 2, 2006

There's and easy solution. Up jonson's posting rights to five a day. Everybody wins.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:14 AM on October 2, 2006

"an easy solution."
posted by eyeballkid at 10:14 AM on October 2, 2006

Wait, mjjj is languagehat's sockpuppet?
posted by OmieWise at 10:21 AM on October 2, 2006

Secret lover, actually.

Think what the kids'll be like!
posted by cortex at 10:30 AM on October 2, 2006

Full of jive!
posted by languagehat at 10:38 AM on October 2, 2006

I propose we simply ban everyone indefinitely. Problem solved.
posted by Dr. Wu at 10:41 AM on October 2, 2006

The laws of Man do not apply to advanced beings such as jonson. Like George W. Bush, he is above the silly rules that we puny humans make to restrict ourselves. Now, drop the subject, before we make him angry.
posted by crunchland at 10:46 AM on October 2, 2006

Actually, I just pulled the posting rights on the lilbrudder account. jonson, when jessamyn said cool it on posting more than once per 24hrs, she meant all the time, esp. during the contest, but not just during the contest.

You showed poor judgment by doing this and I've got to do what I can to prevent it from happening again.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:55 AM on October 2, 2006

"I've got to do what I can to prevent it from happening again"

Man, the things people will do to get another $5! Still, if angering Cthulhu is how you get your kicks, who am I to stand in your way.
posted by jonson at 11:04 AM on October 2, 2006

Unless I misunderstood, and you meant you're going to do what you can to prevent me from showing poor judgement again. In which case, awesome. I thinking of leaving my wife for this woman who works in accounting. She's 15 years younger than me, and she's got a history of suing for harassment. Also my wife's a divorce attorney, and we have a young child. Can you give me any advice?
posted by jonson at 11:06 AM on October 2, 2006

Can you give me any advice?

Buy land in Florida. I can hook you up!
posted by cortex at 11:13 AM on October 2, 2006

Thankyou for making an example of jonson, i for one will certainly improve my behaviour from now on.
posted by sgt.serenity at 11:16 AM on October 2, 2006

Now he's using MetaTalk to get around AskMe rules! Bannination!
posted by kyleg at 11:18 AM on October 2, 2006

Yeah, if anyone's keeping up, during the $30 contest, Jess told jonson to stop making posts from his sockpuppet, and he said he would. So for him to just ignore that and do it anyway is kind of a slap in the face.
posted by bob sarabia at 11:48 AM on October 2, 2006

More of a Cthulhu in the punchbowl, I'd say.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:55 AM on October 2, 2006

We are still going to lobotomize him though, aren't we?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:02 PM on October 2, 2006

WWCD
posted by soundofsuburbia at 12:14 PM on October 2, 2006

Chupacabra + Chihuly = Cthulhu?

Now I will never know. Gesundheit.
posted by Marnie at 12:22 PM on October 2, 2006

jonson, I think you've got the makings of a 25+ favorite AskMe question right here.
posted by brain_drain at 12:23 PM on October 2, 2006

during the $30 contest, Jess told jonson to stop making posts from his sockpuppet, and he said he would. So for him to just ignore that and do it anyway is kind of a slap in the face.

Actually, it happened just before the contest, when nthdegx did a minor hijack of a discussion jonson started about the LiveLabs director showing up in a thread about LiveLabs. It had nothing to do with the contest, so (unless there was another warning later) jonson was misremembering when he wrote above that "it seemed clear that she meant 'during the month of August when there's a financial reward associated with posting.'

To be fair in the other direction, though, the moderator did say "it's not a huge deal" if he only did it once in a while, so banning may have been a bit harsh in this case. But jonson should have known better; there's no reason to expect that the "don't use sockpuppets to get around posting limits" rule wouldn't also apply in MeFi as well as AskMe. Even if he only does it periodically, it's still a terrible precedent to set. If folks want to do it in secret and hope Matt and Jess don't notice, fine. But doing it in public just seems bad for the site in general.
posted by mediareport at 12:24 PM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

minor hijack< /a>/small>
posted by mediareport at 12:25 PM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

but whether it's OK to use sock puppets to evade posting restrictions on one area of the site when we've agreed that it's not OK on another

Ah. In that case, my opinion is that all SPs should be permabanned. Across the entire MeFi universe. Can't stand 'em.

As for what jonson did, meh. He was stupid, but he usually isn't. Can't imagine it's going to happen again.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:50 PM on October 2, 2006

mathowie writes "I just pulled the posting rights on the lilbrudder account. "

Does this differ from a ban in that the account can still comment?
posted by Mitheral at 1:52 PM on October 2, 2006

Nope, I can't log in to that account. Essentially it's like the password got changed.
posted by jonson at 1:54 PM on October 2, 2006

We are still going to lobotomize him though, aren't we?
I hope so - it would be a shame to have washed my saw for nothing.
posted by dg at 3:55 PM on October 2, 2006

Could ask it to email you your password, neh?
posted by five fresh fish at 5:58 PM on October 2, 2006

fff: Could ask it to email you your password, neh?

Ask it what it has in it's pockets, also. Nasty Bagginses!
posted by Dunwitty at 6:06 PM on October 2, 2006

I can't log in to that account

Wait three weeks, email Matt and promise to never do it again. Bet he gives you the account back.
posted by mediareport at 7:54 PM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

Actually, I think I'm better off not having it. I got it just to contribute a few bucks toward's Matt's goal of running the site full time, and once that was done, it just sat there gathering dust. I tried posting with it but in the long run, it just ended up siphoning off 44 Favorites from what should rightly have been added to the ever growing jonson FavoriteMountain(tm). Last thing I need in my race to accumulate an unassailable pile of favorited posts is some sockpuppet account taking away some of my hard-earned virtual kudos!
posted by jonson at 8:05 PM on October 2, 2006

Christ bob, shouldn't you be posting the same wacky .gif in three threads or something?

I hates me some sock puppetry(And agree completely with five fresh fish), but there's no need to puke and cry about it.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:02 PM on October 2, 2006

my race to accumulate an unassailable pile of favorited posts

Uh, yeah.

*pats jonson on back*

You keep shooting for the stars.

(Or, in other words: love the posts, but I don't think you have anything to worry about in the "most favorited" race. You appear to be the only one who cares.)
posted by mediareport at 10:32 PM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

You appear to be the only one who cares

Oh sure, that's what they said to Kareem Abdul Jabbar when he stuck it out for three extra years, playing on knees that were cobbled together with duct tape & willpower, just so he could put the record that much further out of reach. How did he know those extra years would be JUST enough to cause Karl Malone to fall short, nearly two decades later? He didn't, not for sure. But a winner always prepares, mediareport. A winner ALWAYS prepares.
posted by jonson at 10:36 PM on October 2, 2006

*backs away slowly*
posted by mediareport at 10:52 PM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

*notes that mediareport has over 5000 total comments and posts, begins obsessively favoriting every single one of them, simply so that jonson will have some competition*
posted by dersins at 11:16 PM on October 2, 2006 [1 favorite]

Actually, truth be told, at 1190 & counting, that fucker Anonymous has me dead to rights.
posted by jonson at 11:38 PM on October 2, 2006

Hey, you unfavorite that comment right now, jonson.
posted by dersins at 12:11 AM on October 3, 2006