Finding the line between chatfilter and AskMe October 2, 2006 10:59 PM Subscribe
What's the key difference between "what are some great movie scenes involving food?" and "what are some great upbeat 80s songs?" that gets one post deleted and not the other?
Supplementary question -- has anyone ever noticed these help-me-with-my-list posts turning up in articles? I can't help but think that some of the people asking "name some movies for me where happens?" are getting their journalistic homework done via Ask. Is that cool if they are, or do we feel used?
On another forum, someone asked a "name some TV shows where <foo> happens" question, and I not only heard my answer on the radio three days later but heard it word for word. The guy had obviously cut-and-pasted my exact words and read them out on air.
Supplementary question -- has anyone ever noticed these help-me-with-my-list posts turning up in articles? I can't help but think that some of the people asking "name some movies for me where
On another forum, someone asked a "name some TV shows where <foo> happens" question, and I not only heard my answer on the radio three days later but heard it word for word. The guy had obviously cut-and-pasted my exact words and read them out on air.
Those "where happens" bits are supposed to be "where <foo> happens", but, you know, preview being what it is...
posted by AmbroseChapel at 11:08 PM on October 2, 2006
posted by AmbroseChapel at 11:08 PM on October 2, 2006
I heard we were going to start cracking down on "mix tape" questions, but I guess not.
posted by delmoi at 11:33 PM on October 2, 2006
posted by delmoi at 11:33 PM on October 2, 2006
In the music question the poster spent some time asking for personal recommendations, carefully outlining what type of music she was looking for. She even posted later in the thread, trying to fine-tune what sort of responses she was looking for. Seems legit to me. Although I do agree its pretty close to a mix-tape question.
In the second, one-sentence thread, it just asks for "best." Whats best? Tampopo? Food fight scenes?
Its the same as a"your favorite." Its a poll question.
posted by vacapinta at 11:41 PM on October 2, 2006
In the second, one-sentence thread, it just asks for "best." Whats best? Tampopo? Food fight scenes?
Its the same as a"your favorite." Its a poll question.
posted by vacapinta at 11:41 PM on October 2, 2006
I know similar questions have been asked, but I'm not looking for training scenes, or things to get me in a cookin' mood. I want scenes that will make me absurdly happy and slightly embarrassed to be eating along.
posted by hototogisu at 11:52 PM on October 2, 2006
posted by hototogisu at 11:52 PM on October 2, 2006
Regarding your second point - sure, it'd be nice if the author of the question provided credit where it was due if someone else's answer supplied some valuable piece of information, but there is no way to mandate something like this (short of enacting some crazy retroactive punishment/vengeance policy against those that are discovered to be using the hive mind as a substitute for doing their own work). When you read the question, you really have no way of knowing if the poster is asking for himself, a friend, or for some work-related business. So...my vote's going for "We feel used, but eh, what are you gonna do."
posted by Pontius Pilate at 12:10 AM on October 3, 2006
posted by Pontius Pilate at 12:10 AM on October 3, 2006
context, context, cortex, Tampax, mutex, Rolodex, tourettes.
I expect that answer your first question.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 3:08 AM on October 3, 2006
I expect that answer your first question.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 3:08 AM on October 3, 2006
enacting some crazy retroactive punishment/vengeance policy against those that are discovered to be using the hive mind as a substitute for doing their own work
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
posted by grouse at 3:24 AM on October 3, 2006
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
posted by grouse at 3:24 AM on October 3, 2006
I asked a similar question a while back, when I noticed that a columnist had written a story suspiciously similar to an askme question. Someone emailed him and he denied a connection; I'm happy to believe that it was a coincidence.
I think its OK for journalists to ask questions on AskMe, since its not much different from doing a bunch of person-in-the-street interviews, as long as they don't pass their research off as original ideas. If they do, then I think its sloppy, lazy, and duplicitous. But I'm sure that it happens all the time.
posted by googly at 3:44 AM on October 3, 2006
I think its OK for journalists to ask questions on AskMe, since its not much different from doing a bunch of person-in-the-street interviews, as long as they don't pass their research off as original ideas. If they do, then I think its sloppy, lazy, and duplicitous. But I'm sure that it happens all the time.
posted by googly at 3:44 AM on October 3, 2006
The obvious solution to the problem of the media using askme for their research is to give misinformation.
Radio: "The name of the old television show where a horse can talk is obviously The Mike Douglas Show, Bob."
Sure, it may undermine the overall usefulness of AskMe, but, dammit, we only want our answers to be used in preapproved ways.
posted by crunchland at 3:46 AM on October 3, 2006
Radio: "The name of the old television show where a horse can talk is obviously The Mike Douglas Show, Bob."
Sure, it may undermine the overall usefulness of AskMe, but, dammit, we only want our answers to be used in preapproved ways.
posted by crunchland at 3:46 AM on October 3, 2006
I fixed your <foo>.
The second question explains what problem they're trying to solve, the first one does not. The first one is just a "what's your favorite x" poll type question which is so broad as to be basically chatty.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:53 AM on October 3, 2006
The second question explains what problem they're trying to solve, the first one does not. The first one is just a "what's your favorite x" poll type question which is so broad as to be basically chatty.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:53 AM on October 3, 2006
I can't help but think that some of the people asking "name some movies for me where happens?" are getting their journalistic homework done via Ask.
If I ever used Ask for vox pop type research, I'd definitely mention it in the piece - it'd be rude not to, and an editor would insist on it anyway, since you can't just drop a load of quotes from people with weird pseudonyms without explanation.
For other types of research, I'm not sure if a credit would always be appropriate - eg. if I couldn't remember the title of a particular painting I wanted to mention in a review of another artist's work and found it out via AskMe, I wouldn't credit the source, just as I wouldn't credit a friend I'd 'phoned up, a reference book or a website.
"name some movies for me where happens?" type research is just plain lazy, though...
posted by jack_mo at 4:17 AM on October 3, 2006
If I ever used Ask for vox pop type research, I'd definitely mention it in the piece - it'd be rude not to, and an editor would insist on it anyway, since you can't just drop a load of quotes from people with weird pseudonyms without explanation.
For other types of research, I'm not sure if a credit would always be appropriate - eg. if I couldn't remember the title of a particular painting I wanted to mention in a review of another artist's work and found it out via AskMe, I wouldn't credit the source, just as I wouldn't credit a friend I'd 'phoned up, a reference book or a website.
"name some movies for me where happens?" type research is just plain lazy, though...
posted by jack_mo at 4:17 AM on October 3, 2006
I think the movie scenes with food question was legitimate and is the type of question where asking the hive can turn up good info. A quick google turns up at least one site devoted to the subject which will perhaps provide the information requested.
posted by caddis at 4:23 AM on October 3, 2006
posted by caddis at 4:23 AM on October 3, 2006
I heard we were going to start cracking down on "mix tape" questions, but I guess not.
No kidding. We've also repeatedly heard that the posting limits on AskMe were going to be raised to 10 days or 2 weeks or whatever, but that hasn't happened. I can understand why you'd delay implementing a policy change that required new code or something — like "talk pages" for FPPs — but these seem pretty simple.
posted by cribcage at 5:51 AM on October 3, 2006
No kidding. We've also repeatedly heard that the posting limits on AskMe were going to be raised to 10 days or 2 weeks or whatever, but that hasn't happened. I can understand why you'd delay implementing a policy change that required new code or something — like "talk pages" for FPPs — but these seem pretty simple.
posted by cribcage at 5:51 AM on October 3, 2006
Recommend some restaurants in my city is pretty broad, but he seems to be getting helpful answers nonetheless.
Previously, name some churches, name some places to live, name something fun to do in Cleveland.
It seems he just likes recommendations from the web at large about big decisions. Some of the questions are kinda silly, though.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 6:24 AM on October 3, 2006
Previously, name some churches, name some places to live, name something fun to do in Cleveland.
It seems he just likes recommendations from the web at large about big decisions. Some of the questions are kinda silly, though.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 6:24 AM on October 3, 2006
I demand perfect consistency in the moderation of this site. I DEMAND it!
posted by LarryC at 6:46 AM on October 3, 2006
posted by LarryC at 6:46 AM on October 3, 2006
I think it's an overzealous and obviously inconsistent deletion, but maybe I'm just bitter from the sinking of the longboat. *frowns*
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:53 AM on October 3, 2006
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:53 AM on October 3, 2006
The longboat sank? I thought everyone just got bored, pissy and then went home.
posted by caddis at 6:59 AM on October 3, 2006
posted by caddis at 6:59 AM on October 3, 2006
caddis writes "The longboat sank? I thought everyone just got bored, pissy and then went home."
You're confusing it with the Second Vatican Council.
posted by OmieWise at 7:02 AM on October 3, 2006
You're confusing it with the Second Vatican Council.
posted by OmieWise at 7:02 AM on October 3, 2006
Recommend some restaurants in my city is pretty broad, but he seems to be getting helpful answers nonetheless.
Quality of responses notwithstanding, that post is utter garbage and should be deleted.
posted by mkultra at 7:39 AM on October 3, 2006
Quality of responses notwithstanding, that post is utter garbage and should be deleted.
posted by mkultra at 7:39 AM on October 3, 2006
caddis writes "The longboat sank? I thought everyone just got bored, pissy and then went home."
No, no, see, this must be some sort of Chinese telephone effect at work caused by biased MSM reporting of the event. In reality, everyone bore off, got well pissed, and then let the longboat drift off unmanned in a sea of a thousand candles. *Then* everyone went home.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:45 AM on October 3, 2006
No, no, see, this must be some sort of Chinese telephone effect at work caused by biased MSM reporting of the event. In reality, everyone bore off, got well pissed, and then let the longboat drift off unmanned in a sea of a thousand candles. *Then* everyone went home.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:45 AM on October 3, 2006
Several of us reboarded the longboat, eager to recapture lost glories. Alas, it appears that the fickle hand of mathowie the grey was our undoing. "This thread is closed to new comments." Have you ever read more dispiriting words?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:21 AM on October 3, 2006
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:21 AM on October 3, 2006
I never ask stuff for articles here or on ILX because I'm always afraid someone less lazy will finalize the article first and I'll have missed my chance.
And it feels lazy to write based on questions others ask.
posted by klangklangston at 9:39 AM on October 3, 2006
And it feels lazy to write based on questions others ask.
posted by klangklangston at 9:39 AM on October 3, 2006
the fickle hand of mathowie the grey was our undoing. "This thread is closed to new comments." Have you ever read more dispiriting words?
Sorry, you shall have no harmless fun. Fun is bad. Please refrain from fun. Rather, please proceed to AskMe to pose a narrow question in which no one is allowed to express an opinion. Just the facts ma'am.
posted by caddis at 9:55 AM on October 3, 2006
Sorry, you shall have no harmless fun. Fun is bad. Please refrain from fun. Rather, please proceed to AskMe to pose a narrow question in which no one is allowed to express an opinion. Just the facts ma'am.
posted by caddis at 9:55 AM on October 3, 2006
I believed the standard remedy, in a case like this, is to register 12655.org.
posted by moss at 10:21 AM on October 3, 2006
posted by moss at 10:21 AM on October 3, 2006
monju_bosatsu writes "eager to recapture lost glories"
Well, you can't force it, can you.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:16 PM on October 3, 2006
Well, you can't force it, can you.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:16 PM on October 3, 2006
Thanks for the fix.
>The second question explains what problem they're trying to solve, the first one does not.
Honestly? I don't see it. They're both "please help me make a list" questions, and there is no real "problem". The only difference I see is one of detail.
If the food guy had said "what are some good food scenes?" and waffled on a bit about "Tampopo" and "Antonia's Feast" and how he didn't want food fights, it would have been OK?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 2:09 PM on October 3, 2006
>The second question explains what problem they're trying to solve, the first one does not.
Honestly? I don't see it. They're both "please help me make a list" questions, and there is no real "problem". The only difference I see is one of detail.
If the food guy had said "what are some good food scenes?" and waffled on a bit about "Tampopo" and "Antonia's Feast" and how he didn't want food fights, it would have been OK?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 2:09 PM on October 3, 2006
Mixtape sites:
Art of the Mix
Tiny Mix Tapes
MixMatcher
WebJay
posted by IndigoRain at 2:32 PM on October 3, 2006
Art of the Mix
Tiny Mix Tapes
MixMatcher
WebJay
posted by IndigoRain at 2:32 PM on October 3, 2006
Dear AskMe, tell me about stuff?
posted by blue_beetle at 2:34 PM on October 3, 2006
posted by blue_beetle at 2:34 PM on October 3, 2006
"Dear AskMe, tell me about stuff?"
It's another one of those overproduced, slick, ad-heavy "mazagine for men" thingies. You know the type, they like to wax poetic about blowjobs, beer, and the newest uber-chic cocktail, but they airbrush the nipples out of their pictorials and they don't contain an ounce of actual content.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:44 PM on October 3, 2006
It's another one of those overproduced, slick, ad-heavy "mazagine for men" thingies. You know the type, they like to wax poetic about blowjobs, beer, and the newest uber-chic cocktail, but they airbrush the nipples out of their pictorials and they don't contain an ounce of actual content.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:44 PM on October 3, 2006
Looking at the poster's list of previous questions, it looks like s/he's a writer for a small free newspaper looking to fill up a top-ten list. So, a clear problem to be solved, not asking for "your favorite x" but for "most notable x", which is at least a little more objective. Ok, so it's a question they could easily answer by googling aroung for themselves, but it's not just chat, I think.
The '80s song question is bad, I think, just because every '80s song that we remember now is either absurdly upbeat or a super-cheesy ballad. I went to answer, but it occurred to me I would be typing for hours.
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:56 PM on October 3, 2006
The '80s song question is bad, I think, just because every '80s song that we remember now is either absurdly upbeat or a super-cheesy ballad. I went to answer, but it occurred to me I would be typing for hours.
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:56 PM on October 3, 2006
actually, the food question is more interesting than the music question.
posted by brandz at 6:49 PM on October 3, 2006
posted by brandz at 6:49 PM on October 3, 2006
Yes, that is what makes fickle deletions so frustrating. The question about '80's songs is really chatfilter of the highest order - "tell me about your favorite _____ ." The question about food in movies was not about favorites but good movie scenes. Food in movies is sufficiently obscure enough to make finding info difficult. Here the collective memory of the hive potentially could make for good answers. You could have had some great creative finds whereas the 80's music question produced nothing but tons of boring, insipid dreck. The decision on what to delete was just 180 degrees off. Such lack of judgment in AskMe editting is frustrating. Matt's very good judgment helped make MetaFilter what it is today, but it is somehow lacking in the precious AskMe.
posted by caddis at 8:51 PM on October 3, 2006
posted by caddis at 8:51 PM on October 3, 2006
Several of us reboarded the longboat, eager to recapture lost glories. - monju_bosatsu
I missed it?!?! *cry*
posted by raedyn at 7:52 AM on October 4, 2006
I missed it?!?! *cry*
posted by raedyn at 7:52 AM on October 4, 2006
raedyn writes "I missed it?!?! *cry*"
You missed it? I was absent as well, but I heard there was a stunning lack of tiaras.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:02 PM on October 4, 2006
You missed it? I was absent as well, but I heard there was a stunning lack of tiaras.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:02 PM on October 4, 2006
Woo
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:06 AM on October 5, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:06 AM on October 5, 2006
Shiny
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:06 AM on October 5, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:06 AM on October 5, 2006
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posted by Kickstart70 at 11:04 PM on October 2, 2006