I submit that namecalling is NEVER appropriate on Metafilter.

August 11, 2002 10:52 PM

"Might not hurt to actually know what something is before attacking it, moron." Seems like some people who have been around long enough to know better could learn a lot about civility and manners from some of the 14k crowd. I submit that namecalling is NEVER appropriate on Metafilter.
posted by rushmc to Etiquette/Policy at 10:52 PM (43 comments total)

I completely agree. What do you suggest we do about it?
posted by crunchland at 11:00 PM on August 11, 2002

moron? i move we circumcise that cretinous simpering little cum-stain-on-the-chin-of-humanity for lack of originality.
posted by quonsar at 11:09 PM on August 11, 2002

The guy did dismiss someone's profession as a "glorified janitor" (let alone how the janitors must feel about it). While the "moron" was totally out of line, I'll go out on a limb and say that cinematique is the bigger problem in that thread. Sinner handled the situation in the best possible way.

(ok, I admit I'm a little ruffled by his bizarre attack on me as well)
posted by malphigian at 11:10 PM on August 11, 2002

i agree, while delmoi probably shouldn't have called him a moron, i think the more extreme breach of mefi-culture was by cinematique. by his own admission his comments were "trying to be provocative" and "-1 (offtopic.)". he actually says on slashdot the comment would be -1, and for the love of jesus i would hope that the quality of comments here is on average better than slashdot. also, who goes to any online forum and starts making fun of cs people? that's just bizarre.

i thought this reaction was best, by malphigian:

I'm not sure what your comments are all about, or even what your real problem is, other than you seem to have some strange aggression against a range of fields you don't understand very well, and seem to think that anyone who works on them is the same as some desktop support/MCSE guy you know.
posted by rhyax at 11:42 PM on August 11, 2002

Maybe there should be a warning system, complete with the warnings posted in the users details. This way Matt can keep an eye on people trolling.

Maybe with enough warnings, that user may not be allowed to post on the main page for a week (or something).

Anyone else got any good ideas?
posted by Keyser Soze at 11:48 PM on August 11, 2002

Well, if glorified janitors are so smart, how come they live in igloos and taste so good?

I think calling the user out, (as this thread was intended to do) is a good enough display of public discontent, although the other edge of the sword is that people seeking attention will always be nasty so that these posts will appear.

*I am not naming names, but I am glaring at a certain someone*
posted by hama7 at 3:19 AM on August 12, 2002

quonsar, that was uncalled for.
posted by PrinceValium at 4:15 AM on August 12, 2002

I'll make you a deal : please stop with the cheesy emoticons, okay? And I'll put down this heavy and potentially lethal beer bottle.

Well, I'll put it down for a minute or two, and you can run away.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:24 AM on August 12, 2002

keyser, your intention is good, but I don't think it's a good idea. There is too much room for ill-use, for one, and with a population the size of MetaFilter there could always be a decent amount of people who take offense at unpopular viewpoints. Besides, we've got MetaTalk to call out people with. It works just fine, trust me.

Agreed, name-calling is bad. So is the abuse of emoticons. And the more and more common use of l33t sp34k is driving me batty.
posted by ashbury at 5:27 AM on August 12, 2002

Oh, they're emoticons. I thought some people were just clumsy and kept leaning on the keyboard.
posted by Summer at 5:58 AM on August 12, 2002

When someone (no names please) either posts something rather inflammatory (I'm really tired of people using janitors being used as an example of the lowest of the low. Anyone ever tries that around me will have to deal with my broom and cleaning fluid) with no provocation or responds to an obvious troll with an over-the-top rejoinder, well, it just says to the pop psychologist in me, "That person has issues."

I have tons of issues myself so I should know....
posted by Dagobert at 6:21 AM on August 12, 2002

Whenever I hear someone referred to as a "glorified" anything, I think...well, at least they're getting glory!
posted by ColdChef at 6:28 AM on August 12, 2002

Anyone else got any good ideas?

Keyser Soze: you are being rather presumtuous to think your idea is good. Your idea would dump an incredible amount of work on Matt to implement.

"incredible amount of work on Matt" = bad idea


posted by mischief at 6:56 AM on August 12, 2002

Mischief, what was that?

Option 1: Sarcasm [implicit criticism of MetaTalk "goons"]

Interpretation:
Keyser Soze: Ha ha, like anyone here will listen to your ideas! Because your idea would result in Matt actually working!

"incredible amount of work on Matt" = apparently, a bad idea. Though I have no idea why!

Option 2: Sincerity [criticism of friendly invitation for solutions]

Interpretation:
Keyser Soze: By saying 'Anyone else got any good ideas?', you were assuming that your idea was a good one, dumb-ass. And it's obviously not, because it would require work.

"incredible amount of work on Matt" = bad idea

And what the fuck were you thinking, asking others for solutions? Shut up, newbie.

Either way, it was counter-productive and opaque.

posted by Marquis at 7:12 AM on August 12, 2002

There is some QUALITY nit-picking going on here.

sheesh.
posted by Frasermoo at 8:08 AM on August 12, 2002

but no quality name-calling.
posted by quonsar at 8:09 AM on August 12, 2002

is there no justice?
posted by Frasermoo at 8:15 AM on August 12, 2002

quonsar: but no quality name-calling.

Unlike, say, calling evanizer a "fascist fop"?
posted by pardonyou? at 8:19 AM on August 12, 2002

or this. however, if one were to judge by accolade, then this must have been my finest moment.
posted by quonsar at 8:29 AM on August 12, 2002

Any transgression by cinematique I thought was well-addressed by delmoi's first two paragraphs. Adding the insult line simply undercut his own message and made him, and the rest of us, look foolish.

I'm made a little uncomfortable by the implication in the attitude of some that a particular profession should be off-limits for criticism simply because it is a popular one among MeFi members. While cinematique's remarks were not especially politic, they didn't seem all that inflammatory to me. But then, I'm not in MIS.
posted by rushmc at 8:33 AM on August 12, 2002

quonsar: Meanest.MeFite.Ever.
posted by evanizer at 9:26 AM on August 12, 2002

I'm still partial to this, myself.
posted by rcade at 9:46 AM on August 12, 2002

well, insouciance aside (is that even possible?), i DO regret those things. spurred by a misplaced rage with no ready outlet, i spewed it in front of EVERYBODY. rcade, i never have apologized for defacing your blog comments like that. i am sorry i did that. it won't happen ever again. and evanizer. (sigh). it's no excuse, but evanizer actually INVITED me to attack his sexuality in his email, and invitation to which i shamefully but readily responded. the other day i was looking at the mefi meetup pics and you know, evan looks like a perfectly nice guy, and i thought to myself, i'll bet we would end up laughing our asses off were we to ever meet. after he finished torturing me over my past indiscretions, that is. he's tall and round, i'm so short and round, i could be his mini-me. evan, i am sorry i called you a sperm burper, a fascist fop, and whatever other little gems i may have now forgotten. and it won't happen again.
posted by quonsar at 10:26 AM on August 12, 2002

jane, you ignorant slut!
posted by quonsar at 10:28 AM on August 12, 2002

You called me a Republican too, and for that I cannot forgive.

OK. No worries, mate. I want to call people here bad names quite a bit, but I take a breather, and if I still feel the need to make my displeasure known, I think of a cunning cut rather than an invective-type insult, post it and move on.
posted by evanizer at 11:09 AM on August 12, 2002

Somebody notified delmoi to tell him that there's a MeTa thread about him, right?
posted by Shadowkeeper at 11:12 AM on August 12, 2002

Here's the part I found really interesting and original: "(Side note: As one who reads Slashdot and MeFi both, I find it interesting how many stories appear on one and then the other, usually in rapid succession. Same with Kuro5hin.org ^_^ One of these days I'd like to see something appear here first, and THEN on /. :))" Why hasn't this been discussed before? I also find the use of the passive-agressive smileyface crap quite original and endearing! Delmoi, it's okay to call someone a moron but you must lessen the blow with a non-threatening emoticon.


posted by Mack Twain at 11:13 AM on August 12, 2002

bullshit!

^_^
posted by Marquis at 11:25 AM on August 12, 2002

... it's okay to call someone a moron but you must lessen the blow with a non-threatening emoticon.

Or you could just use the southern insult absolver: say "Bless his/her heart" after you let an insult fly, e.g. "Jane is just a half-witted twit, bless her heart."
posted by whatnot at 11:59 AM on August 12, 2002

Old Cardoso's Rule: If you want to insult someone and go out of your way to type something and post it, then there's something wrong with your attitude. self-control or sense of priorities. Life's not only too short - it's too good. If it at first seems irresistible, ignore them, don't spend a second of your time with them, don't read whatever they've written, get on with your posting, enjoy your time here at MetaFilter!

Plus, if you're really petty - nothing annoys the bitchers more than supreme indifference; happiness; haste to enjoy all that's enjoyable here. Fun is the best prune juice and antidote for farty, constipated anal retention.

It's far better to thank or praise someone for some little bit of intelligence or joy they've brought you - if you do indeed have the extra time. Otherwise it's just childish noise - whether or not it's just or deserved.

If you count the bitchers and name-callers, the vain polemicists and the cops, they're few and far between and, anyway, keep each other entertained with no need for help from the rest of us. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:41 PM on August 12, 2002

Miguel, you're an unruly boner. Fuck me I'm drubk.

(Said in the spirit of love and brotherhood.)
posted by ColdChef at 12:45 PM on August 12, 2002

Fun is the best prune juice and antidote for farty, constipated anal retention.

Do you have a bumper sticker that says that?
posted by adampsyche at 1:06 PM on August 12, 2002

I'm made a little uncomfortable by the implication in the attitude of some that a particular profession should be off-limits for criticism simply because it is a popular one among MeFi members.

First i don't think any profession should be made fun of really, very much including janitors. the only exception i could see is if you actually think it would be better for society not to have profession X. i'm glad there are janitors, and i'm glad there are MIS people, and CS people, they do things i don't, but need.

my point was that it was silly to make fun of CS people online. that doesn't mean i think it's ok to make fun of them elsewhere, or that i think it's ok to make fun of other professions. i don't think people should make fun of alcoholics, but to go to an AA meeting and do it is silly. see?

not that CS people are all alcoholics :P
posted by rhyax at 1:31 PM on August 12, 2002

Thanks for the apology, quonsar. I haven't been nearly as gracious about my past online transgressions against civility.
posted by rcade at 4:14 PM on August 12, 2002

First i don't think any profession should be made fun of really, very much including janitors.

Fair enough, but I think there's a difference between "making fun" of a profession and discussing it critically. Which was the intent here, I won't try to second-guess, but I think it's perfectly okay to present the argument that MIS duties might in some ways be analagous with those of a janitor/maintenance engineer, without necessarily demeaning members of either field. The point, it seems to me, was to deflate the swollen pretentions endemic within a particular industry and to take a more realistic look at the real nuts and bolts of the job. If someone disagrees with this assessment, they can certainly--and perhaps very effectively--dispute it, but to act as though it is somehow improper to even question it in the first place simply because of the composition of the audience here seems wrong to me. I'll grant that it may be a difficult audience to sway.
posted by rushmc at 5:17 PM on August 12, 2002

Rushmc : it's all very well to defend janitors (though I know you're definitely not afraid to be un-PC) but the truth still is that little skills are required of a janitor, compared to the job being discussed.

But there's a problem with "maintenance". Otherwise doctors would be "health maintenance officers" or, like garbage-collectors, "health recovery experts".

The point is that we all know when there's an offensive undertow. No work is demeaning - none at all - but it is demeaning to conflate or confuse two professions which require different levels of skill and education.

Though, as Plato almost said, a good janitor is better than a mediocre doctor, a superb janitor is only so good. So there was a slight - if not an insult - in that comparison and, though delmoi probably over-reacted, I think he was right to stick up for himself and for those who were simplistically compared. They may be analogous [with an 'O', teehee! ;)] but, in this context, the comparison is too broad to make any sense.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:30 PM on August 12, 2002

I agree, Miguel, that equating the complexities of the two jobs would be inaccurate. But there may be some validity in comparing the ROLES of the two within a larger organization. I'm not defending janitors; I'm defending the right to ask these questions, to raise these issues, and to posit such comparisons. I leave it to others to assess the validity of the comparison and challenge or rebut it as they see fit.

analogous [with an 'O', teehee! ;)]

Grrr...my pupils were still dilated from my trip to the ophthalmologist when I wrote that. That's a good excuse, right? Right?
posted by rushmc at 7:16 PM on August 12, 2002

::::rushmc agrees!::::

*holds left arm; then heart; suffering infarction all the worse for that * :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:26 PM on August 12, 2002

a superb janitor is only so good

I am sure you have heard the joke about the parts of the body arguing over who would be boss - while a janitor may not have the same skillset as a "tech guy" or whatever, their importance to the organisation is equal, as they are both required for the organisation to function. Of course, they are remunerated in accordance with their skillset not their importance and that is why they are paid differently.

Now, if only CEOs were paid in accordance with their skillset instead of their (self-perceived) importance to the organisation, we might have a little reality in the corporate world. How much do you pay someone who can't add a column of figures and get the same answer twice?
posted by dg at 8:47 PM on August 12, 2002

I submit that namecalling is NEVER appropriate on Metafilter.

What are you going to do about it, snitchy?

Doh! ;-)
posted by wackybrit at 12:30 AM on August 13, 2002

I dunno...name-calling can be funny, if it is clever, or original. I submit that getting personally offended at being called a bad name on Metafilter is nearly never appropriate. And the corollary is--name-calling is also nearly never appropriate. But sometimes it just might be exactly appropriate.
posted by Fabulon7 at 7:22 AM on August 13, 2002

I dunno...name-calling can be funny, if it is clever, or original.

There are many funny things which are not appropriate for a given forum. Since you've made the claim, can you provide an example of a single case where calling someone a name, rather than responding to the meat of their post, is appropriate and contributes to the quality of the thread and the maintenance of civility among the membership?
posted by rushmc at 12:38 PM on August 13, 2002

Or you could just use the southern insult absolver: say "Bless his/her heart" after you let an insult fly, e.g. "Jane is just a half-witted twit, bless her heart."

Also, "god love him"...as in, "That boy just doesn't have any lights on in the attic, god love him."
posted by dejah420 at 4:43 PM on August 13, 2002