Comments on 3344 | MetaTalk

No need to attack me personally, quonsar. My point has NOTHING to do with my pussy (as you so nicely put it) and everything to do with the fact that he is basically saying that women regularly wake up sore, after a night of drinking, don't remember what they did, and flippantly say "oh well. Who cares? Happens all the time." It insults every single woman out there and is disgustingly flippant and savage about rape, to boot.

Quonsar, you need to tone down the vitriol, by the way. I'm offended by the posting but not nearly as angry as you are about mine. As you said "and if you find what someoine writes on a goddam discussion board to be so friggin' offensive, then you seriously need to pull your head out of the sand." Sounds like a good idea for you, too.
posted by aacheson at 11:39 AM on June 20, 2003

you have to admit that thread is pretty full of disappointingly misogynistic comments though. I wouldn't suggest deletion, but it's still kind of a sad representation of the community. I mean, I wouldn't be one to argue that rape is inherently as life-changing an event as some people make it out to be (I think that's at least partly a cultural thing), but people here are obviously trying to push buttons.
posted by mdn at 11:43 AM on June 20, 2003

mdn: have you ever been raped? (rhetorical question)
posted by dash_slot- at 11:54 AM on June 20, 2003

what an offensive way to make my point.

I'm sorry. What I want to say is: how can we know (those of us who havent been assaulted in that way - assumptions acknowledged) how life-changing it may or not have been?
posted by dash_slot- at 12:06 PM on June 20, 2003

he is basically saying that women regularly wake up sore, after a night of drinking, don't remember what they did, and flippantly say "oh well. Who cares? Happens all the time."

I think you misread his comment. I read it to simply say that a rapist might believe that the chances of getting away with his crime were worth taking with a lower penalty, and not worth taking--therefore encouraging him to kill his victim so as not to leave a potential witness to testify against him later--if the penalty were significantly higher.

Not endorsing this view, but that's what the comment says to me. FWIW, I found it unfortunately worded myself.
posted by rushmc at 12:11 PM on June 20, 2003

Yeah, that's the thing, though, rushmc - it wasn't just unfortunately worded, it was aggressively worded, which is what makes it a little difficult to figure out where he is coming from. This was very deliberate. Why?
posted by taz at 12:16 PM on June 20, 2003

I like how son_of_minya explained that it's chivalrous to stick blacks in prison.
posted by NortonDC at 12:20 PM on June 20, 2003

Is there anyone here who can't easily think of 50 better ways delmoi could have worded his statement?
posted by Shane at 12:26 PM on June 20, 2003

Rape is bad. No argument there. For 120 years, though, you might as well kill the chick and bury her body in the woods. If I knew I would get 120 years for raping one woman, I would go rape 20 more just to be sure I was getting value for my time. And I would kill all of them.

Not to detract from any discussion of delmoi, but I'm still shaking off the shivers from this statement by son_of_minya. I know this is meant to be a straightforward logical analysis, and all that. But geez, I sure do wish s_o_m was trolling.
posted by clever sheep at 12:30 PM on June 20, 2003

i just received quite a nasty email from minya threatening to kick my ass. i personally think he is posessed by the gay alter ego's of jerry lewis and rain man.
posted by quonsar at 12:34 PM on June 20, 2003

You can't possess the willing, quonsar.
posted by WolfDaddy at 12:37 PM on June 20, 2003

The solution, of course, is to kick his ass first. And 20 more people too, just to be sure you're getting value for your time.
posted by rocketman at 12:40 PM on June 20, 2003

COMMON GODDAMN SENSE 101:

1. Gee, is rape a sensitive topic?

2. Gee, should we watch how speak in a discussion of rape?
posted by Shane at 12:40 PM on June 20, 2003

LOL rocketman!
posted by Shane at 12:40 PM on June 20, 2003

What I wrote in the thread before I realized we were metaing:

Before we call out the feminism police on delmoi, I think s/he was paraphrasing what Luster might have been thinking - not delmoi's own opinion. I would imagine that was exactly what was going through Luster's mind. It did give me a startle when I read it, though.
posted by widdershins at 12:44 PM on June 20, 2003

aacheson,

bad taste is not illegal. delmoi is entitled to his -- admittedly ugly, maybe half-serious -- comment.

Shouldn't this thread be deleted?
if one ugly comment warrants an entire thread's deletion, mathowie here is going to _really_ have to work overtime

What's the policy on really offensive stuff?
that the administrator didn't find, as he has explained here, the comment to be offensive enough. and it's up to him to decide
posted by matteo at 12:48 PM on June 20, 2003

any minute he'll be in here explaining how imprisoning blacks is needed so that rain man can understand other cultures and play thier rock music videos. assuming of course, that some gay feminist version of jerry lewis doesn't ruin it for us.
posted by quonsar at 12:48 PM on June 20, 2003

quonsar: why does s_o_m want to kick your ass? More than usual, I mean?
posted by widdershins at 12:50 PM on June 20, 2003

The mullet, people. Focus on the mullet.
posted by yhbc at 12:50 PM on June 20, 2003

Interesting, I didn't think that he was describing it from the view of a rapist, rushmc and widdershins. That's a good point.

Matteo, thank you. Yes, I noted Matt's posting about it, and whether or not to delete it is his call, of course. I was just calling attention to it. Point is made and taken, and I guess this didn't cross the line as I thought it did.
posted by aacheson at 12:52 PM on June 20, 2003

I am never going to the reptile house with quonsar.

"Sir, please! The sign clearly says 'DO NOT TAP ON THE GLASS'."
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:55 PM on June 20, 2003 [1 favorite]

Darn, I posted before I was done...

Matteo, I didn't think just that quote was offensive-just the worst of a whole line of aggressive and tasteless postings. There are a lot of not-very-nice statements in the posting and it was appearing that the whole thread was going quickly downhill into just spewing vitriol and hatred. That's why I brought attention to it.
posted by aacheson at 12:56 PM on June 20, 2003

quonsar: why does s_o_m want to kick your ass?
he finds me charming, and i remind him of rain man. i think it's the k-mart underpants.
posted by quonsar at 12:58 PM on June 20, 2003

and aacheson, i also jumped the gun. i should have known there was some fundamental misunderstanding as to how delmoi's comment could be read. i just assumed my reading was correct and couldn't understand what could possibly have upset you other than his use of the p word.
posted by quonsar at 1:02 PM on June 20, 2003

I took the delmoi thing the way widdershins did, but I had to read it twice, it was jarring.

...um mdn,...if you were walking down the street and someone jumped you, held a knife to your throat, and at the point of abject terror, forced you to perform degrading sex acts, keeping you in fear for your very life throughout, you think that might not be life changing? Do you really think that culture would determine how you felt about that? It may not be permanantly life-parlyzing or disabling, but you most certainly wouldn't be the same person again. Cripes, I had my apartment broken in on once and it took me years to shake the feeling of violation and regain a sense of safety, and that was just things.

Rape is a violent, frightening, horrifying, degrading event...and it is occasionally enraging to me when someone is flip about it, so I understand aacheson's point. I'm not all that easily offended, (witness: quonsar is my friend) but every now and again, a bad attitude can bring the lorena bobbit out in me. delmoi's comments didn't trigger that, but the thread as a whole is beyond creepy, clever sheep nails it. The person who shall remain nameless lest I be stalked with vituperative e-mails is definitely someone I will be avoiding.
posted by madamjujujive at 1:07 PM on June 20, 2003

Aaah. See how nice we can all be? Maybe we should invite s_o_m to the lovefest - sounds like he could use it. And aacheson, don't feel too bad - at least this post pushed the pettygrudgefilter post further down the list. Just one more MeTa post, guys, just one more...
posted by widdershins at 1:10 PM on June 20, 2003

Pussy
posted by Witty at 1:14 PM on June 20, 2003

oh, minya is at this very moment describing email WHICH I NEVER SENT TO HIM in #mefi. it is friggin hilarious. he cant see me cuz he's got me on ignore.
son of minya is a lying sack of jerry lewis shit.
posted by quonsar at 1:14 PM on June 20, 2003

aacheson,

it's clear why you brought attention to the thread.
it's natural to be upset for a flippant, ugly comment about rape. we feel bad when people here dis our beloved Macs, of make fun of Steve Jobs's peculiarly scatological language. don't worry -- feeling bad about a rape joke is perfectly alright
posted by matteo at 1:21 PM on June 20, 2003

Son of Minya probably wants to kick quonsar's ass because quonsar is being abusive.

Can we please fucking stop it with this GrudgeFilter shit?
posted by dgaicun at 1:25 PM on June 20, 2003

dgaicun, thats not abusive, that's a reference to some remarkable, scary, ludicrous comments made by minya in various places over the last several weeks.
posted by quonsar at 1:43 PM on June 20, 2003

... or months.
posted by WolfDaddy at 1:45 PM on June 20, 2003

I don't think the post should be deleted, it showed me how ignorant people can be to drugs. If you take drugs know what they do, please. Especially when mixed. GHB was a supplement that abused with alcohol, kills. Unfortunately some who've lived through the experience also have a deeper secret, RAPE. In most cases where someone OD on this crap and they did not take it voluntarily they were raped while near death. Your body can only do so much while trying to survive, so it can't recall all in its memory. I hear the drug called a date rape drug yet it kills more than are rape. This drugs effects with alcohol is really lifelessness.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:53 PM on June 20, 2003

Getting to know you,
Getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you,
Getting to hope you like me.

Getting to know you,
Putting it my way,
But nicely,
You are precisely,
My cup of tea.

Getting to know you,
Getting to feel free and easy
When I am with you,
Getting to know what to say

Haven't you noticed
Suddenly I'm bright and breezy?
Because of all the beautiful and new
Things I'm learning about you
Day .. by ... day.
posted by y2karl at 2:00 PM on June 20, 2003

how can we know (those of us who havent been assaulted in that way - assumptions acknowledged) how life-changing it may or not have been?

Try going to sleep next to someone who's been through it. Try living through their anniversary of the event every year. Try having a normal sex life with them once they associate certain positions, words, motions with an episode where they were forced to get some psychotic asshole's rocks off under threat of being killed. Ever get mad when someone cuts you off on the hgihway

I wouldn't be one to argue that rape is inherently as life-changing an event as some people make it out to be (I think that's at least partly a cultural thing)

If the personal experience you're basing this on is zilch, mdn, I'd encourage you to pluck up the courage to not form an opinion. It is possible to reserve judgement in the case of zero evidence.
posted by scarabic at 2:07 PM on June 20, 2003

New levels of nastiness. If it was my site I'd delete that thread and this one and hum softly until the memories faded. Some people in here just don't get along well with others and ought to go away. Not banned, necessarily, just go away.
posted by norm at 2:20 PM on June 20, 2003

"Reserving judgement is a matter of infinite hope."
F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby.

Oh the irony.
posted by dazed_one at 2:20 PM on June 20, 2003

An observation that some seem to be oblivious to:

There are multiple kinds of rape, with somewhat different consequences. Violent stranger-rape is one of them, but not all rapes are of that particular kind. And not all rapes, even of a particular kind, have the same effects and long-term consequences for everyone that undergoes them.

I know (and in some cases, have been sexually intimate with) several women that have been raped. While they were mostly collegiate date-rape situations, none of them have had any kind of major long term negative effects.

Some clarity of terms is probably a good thing in this situation.
posted by fnord23 at 2:23 PM on June 20, 2003

dash_slot, madam, scarabic, I didn't mean to be flippant or offend you; I just sometimes think that rape is given a higher "trauma" count than other things which could be similarly scarring just because of the sexual innocence thing in our culture. Is rape worse than prolonged assault? Is it worse than surviving a terrible disease or disaster? I'm just not sure it is. But you're right, I don't have direct evidence.

People often say that women who've worked in the sex industry are scarred for life too, which I think stems from the same cultural thing that nudges rape / sexual abuse up an additional notch as a trauma.

To be clear: I am not disagreeing that it's terrible and traumatic, just that it's inherently more so than other terrible but survived events.
posted by mdn at 2:26 PM on June 20, 2003

Erm..just to be clear, in:

"I know (and in some cases, have been sexually intimate with) several women that have been raped. While they were mostly collegiate date-rape situations, none of them have had any kind of major long term negative effects."

"they" refers to the rapes that were experienced by the women I know, not to any of the sexual intimacy that I may have shared with them.

I'd hope to be given the benefit of the doubt in the ambiguous wording, but it never hurts to clarify. ;)
posted by fnord23 at 2:35 PM on June 20, 2003

Too late fnord. The police are on their way.
posted by dazed_one at 2:36 PM on June 20, 2003

Well defended mdn.

The older I get, the more shocked I am at how many women I meet that have suffered from some form of sexual assault. It's horrifying really. That doesn't count how many I've met that just haven't divulged that information (understandably so). Makes me angry just thinking about it.
posted by Witty at 2:40 PM on June 20, 2003

aacheson - c'mon, delete the thread?

Perhaps delete the message, if it has no relevance to the topic.

But censorship because you're offended? No way. I'm offended too, but this isn't ashcroftfiler . . .
posted by jdaura at 2:41 PM on June 20, 2003

It's Matt's site, so if he got offened by the comment, I'd understand if he deleted it, but if anyone else got offened, would we have to vote to delete or keep it?
posted by dazed_one at 2:45 PM on June 20, 2003

would we have to vote to delete or keep it?

No, the accepted procedure is to bring said comment we want deleted into its own thread, where it will be seen by many more people and argued over continuously. Plus you get the requisite grudges and personal attacks. It's a beautiful system, really.
posted by Space Coyote at 2:49 PM on June 20, 2003 [1 favorite]

But censorship because you're offended? No way. I'm offended too, but this isn't ashcroftfiler

I'd censor the damn thing because it reflects negatively on us as a community. Then again, I'm not the censor.
posted by norm at 2:49 PM on June 20, 2003

clever sheep:

Only if I were a rapist. I'm not a rapist. I do wish I was just trolling, too, though. It is scary, but these are the questions serial rapists must ask themselves. It's why so many volunteer for hormone therapy -- not just because they can get a lighter sentence.

I also responded in the thread, which is where this should have stayed; but I was stalled because I spent the last hour wasting my time trying to argue with quonsar on irc.

quonsar:

dgaicun, thats not abusive, that's a reference to some remarkable, scary, ludicrous comments made by minya in various places over the last several weeks.

Look, I love gay people. I have tried to explain that to you and others over the past several months. You just can't let it go. I think gay sex is gross, so I'm a fucking monster. You make comments that are even more offensive to an individual than anything I ever wrote, and that also should be offensive to the gay community as a whole. Is it right to use "gay" as an insult? That's what you did!

Not only that, but you deny ever responding to any e-mail I ever sent you; and you've sent me two. I don't care if I can prove it or not. You know the truth, and I know the truth. You know that you're not a man, and that you have harassed me to a point where I should perfectly justified in hating you. That's all that matters to me.
posted by son_of_minya at 2:57 PM on June 20, 2003

...
posted by quonsar at 2:59 PM on June 20, 2003

You know what's the problem with this site? People seldom think before posting. First, concerning language, it should suffice to say this is not, as far as I'm aware, a gansgta rap/South Park message board. Cursing progressively dulls and dumbs the discussion down to a point where you perceive nothing but fuming aggression; the ideas are gone.

Second, rape is an unforgivable crime. Being glib and dismissive about it is absurd. Attempting to downplay it is beyond repulsive and sick if not literally criminal.

Next time we ask ourselves why there's such a lack of women here, I suggest rereading some of the comments on the "bounty hunter a go-go" thread.
posted by 111 at 3:07 PM on June 20, 2003

no, i think i will respond.

you wandered into #mefi, didn't see me, and proceeded to spew lies about a fictitious email i never sent to you TODAY. a dozen people saw that too. they also saw you suddenly discover that you had deleted the email when i called you on it. you are a liar.

i did not deny ever sending you email. in a discussion of TODAY's email, you asked if i had EVER sent you email. my response, seen by a dozen people because i refused to respond to you via PM, was "yes. no. maybe."

i am what i am. hundreds of people know me here. some like me, some despise me, i deal with it. you have been posting insane shit about homosexuality, feminism, jerry lewis, rain man, horse cocks, your self-imagined "genius", other people thinking you "look gay", raping and killing women and other morbidities for months, as noted by Wolfdaddy above. getting a reaction? deal with it.
posted by quonsar at 3:12 PM on June 20, 2003

THANK YOU, 111. Well put. That was my point.
posted by aacheson at 3:34 PM on June 20, 2003

quonsar:

I put you on ignore long ago, so I obviously did not care about your comments in #mefi.

You can call me a liar as much as you want to, but both of us know the truth.

If you don't know the truth, then find out who sent that e-mail.

On second thought: You just admitted that you are a liar. So suck dese nuts, biatch.

111:

Rape is an unforgivable crime, in that there is no excuse for it. There are many unforgivable crimes, in this sense. What's your point?

I didn't want to post this in the blue, but: Should we obtain a sperm sample at puberty and then castrate all males? They have nothing to lose by submitting to this -- they can still have children. So, why don't we do that to eliminate all rape?

We don't do that because it would be cruel and unusual punishment.

I do believe in punishment. I believe that if a woman neutered a man who had raped her, she should not face any jail time. That is completely different from saying the State should sentence anyone who is found guilty of rape to life imprisonment!

I did ask that everyone think, and take five deep breaths, and there was a fucking good reason. Offensive does not equal illegal, unless you're a Christian Conservative. You aren't Christian Conservatives, are you? You could never be dogmatic?

As for quonsar, he has already admitted to me that he was lying. Believe what you will, but do not believe the unsubstantiated words of any asshole.
posted by son_of_minya at 3:37 PM on June 20, 2003

how did i admit lying? minya, you are simply insane.
posted by quonsar at 3:44 PM on June 20, 2003

Well defended mdn

I am hearing you, mdn, that you agree rape is terrible.

But what are we to think of someone who joins a conversation about rape, and immediately begins pointing out that it's not as bad as cancer ? What is your goal in de-emphasizing the psychological impact of rape? And why do you feel the need to compare and contrast the degrees of pain and suffering of various life disasters? I think that's just morbid and insensitive.
posted by scarabic at 3:45 PM on June 20, 2003

S_O_M, most of that last post here belongs in the Metafilter post, not here. Here we are discussing your, Quonsar, Delmoi, and other people's misogynistic and flippant remarks about rape and whether or not I was right to ask for its' deletion due to the nastiness in the thread.

We get it that you and quonsar hate each other and think each other are liars. You two need to take it off line. I'm sick of reading you two sniping back and forth at each other (although I totally understand feeling the need to have the last comment and not leave a point unargued..god know's I've done it too.) Sometimes you just have to walk away and start ignoring someone. May I suggest now would be a good time for both of you?
posted by aacheson at 3:47 PM on June 20, 2003

that post was about Mad Dog's mullet. You guys are focused on precisely the wrong point.

However, when Mad Dog gets out of his mexican prison cell, I'm going to hire him to hunt quonsar and son of minya down and break all their typing fingers.

THAT will bring the women back to mefi, I am very sure.
posted by jdaura at 3:49 PM on June 20, 2003

quonsar made no flippant remark about rape in ANY thread. if you can produce one, i would certainly appreciate your doing so. thank you for your cooperation!
posted by quonsar at 3:51 PM on June 20, 2003

It's a beautiful system, really.
posted by Space Coyote at 2:49 PM PST on June 20

It is indeed. It brings a tear to my eye.

Oh wait... nope, sorry, the stench of all the poo that people are flinging is just making my eyes water.
posted by dazed_one at 3:52 PM on June 20, 2003

And I thought the mullet was cool.

I mean not cool. Yes. That's it.
posted by dazed_one at 3:53 PM on June 20, 2003

i'm still waiting, aacheson. where is the misogynistic, flippant remark i made about rape?
posted by quonsar at 3:55 PM on June 20, 2003

ah. perhaps it went the way of the email i supposedly sent to minya. maybe there was a strange mefi glitch which inadvertently deleted it.
posted by quonsar at 3:59 PM on June 20, 2003

no, you sent it to _me_ instead, quonsar. got the wrong adress.

I had never been called a penguin-fucker before
posted by matteo at 4:04 PM on June 20, 2003

rofl!
posted by quonsar at 4:06 PM on June 20, 2003

aacheson:

S_O_M, most of that last post here belongs in the Metafilter post, not here. Here we are discussing your, Quonsar, Delmoi, and other people's misogynistic and flippant remarks about rape and whether or not I was right to ask for its' deletion due to the nastiness in the thread.

First of all, I have never made a misogynistic remark. Flippant, maybe.

I respect your opinion. I apologize for dragging my own personal business into it. I just think that it's important to know who was really wrong. Who pushed it across the line from sentencing to personal attacks?

IMHO, it was quonsar. You need only look at his comments within this very thread to see that he holds a personal grudge against me and had attempted to inject that into a legitimate thread. I am not asking for his comments or this thread to be deleted, though.
posted by son_of_minya at 4:13 PM on June 20, 2003

aacheson:

Look, quonsar may deny it as much as he wants to, but he told me not to e-mail him again. I would really like to take this to e-mail, but he directly told me not to. I will respect his wishes, no matter how much he denies it.

That is why I must comment here, or not comment at all.

I'm better than quonsar, see, because I told him to stop with the gay jokes, and he didn't stop.

I don't care how many lies he tells about me. This, right here, is my word. My word stands for everything I am, and my word says quonsar is a liar.
posted by son_of_minya at 4:31 PM on June 20, 2003

I think all quonsar and s_o_m need is some crazy make up sex, just like rushmc and jonson in this thread.
posted by dazed_one at 4:35 PM on June 20, 2003

this, right here, is my HORSE COCK. my HORSE COCK stands for everything that i am, and my HORSE COCK says minya, STFU.
posted by quonsar at 4:36 PM on June 20, 2003

Well, there's the cock... now all we need is the other half and we've got crazy make up sex!
posted by dazed_one at 4:40 PM on June 20, 2003

You know what's the problem with this site?

We think beyond the crust of life as members but forget our eating preferences differ between each member's slice of ~~life~~ pie.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:43 PM on June 20, 2003

But what are we to think of someone who joins a conversation about rape, and immediately begins pointing out that it's not as bad as cancer ? What is your goal in de-emphasizing the psychological impact of rape? And why do you feel the need to compare and contrast the degrees of pain and suffering of various life disasters? I think that's just morbid and insensitive.

who are you talking about? I didn't even comment on the original thread, and my post here was to say that I thought the comments made there were depressingly insensitive. I only added the thing about not being one to hold rape as intrinsically worse than other trauma to clarify that my disgust with the comments in the thread could not be linked to personal sensitivity to the issue at hand, but just a common sense of respect and coherence in discussion.

I apologize to any who were offended, but this is a discussion board, and I'm presenting my opinions with care and respect, so I don't think I'm being "morbid and insensitive" - I'm just bringing up a cultural issue that seems interesting to me. Do you think women who work in the sex industry are scarred? It seems to me that if they are, it is because of the stigma and social reaction more than the work itself. It doesn't seem unlikely to me that that's part of the issue with rape, as well.

Maybe this kind of intellectual curiosity is insensitive since it doesn't matter to the person who's undergoing the trauma what the actual source of it is, but I'm participating in a forum, not counseling a survivor, so I think it's within reasonable bounds, no?
posted by mdn at 4:48 PM on June 20, 2003

welcome to the jonson school of metatalk.
posted by crunchland at 4:53 PM on June 20, 2003

I'm better than quonsar, see
rofl!

aacheson, I wouldn't lump quonsar in with s_of_m and delmoi, though I can understand the temptation. They're all given to making provocative and annoying comments. The difference (as I eventually discovered) is that when quonsar flings poo at people, they generally deserve it; when he makes a mistake, as he did with you, he's willing to apologize, which is a rare commodity around here. quonsar is basically 1) enjoying himself, 2) giving the bad guys (as he sees them) a hotfoot, and 3) entertaining those who have a meepzorp kind of attitude. If you don't like it, best to ignore it.

Others, however... how can I put this? I don't think they're bad people, I don't think they're trying to make MetaFilter a worser place, but they have such a high opinion of their own ideas and reasoning and such a low opinion of most other people (and such a low boiling point) that they deliberately use "shocking" analogies or turns of phrase, confident that everyone with any sense will see their point and chuckle at their daring; then when they're called on it (usually with more outrage than is really sensible, given that this is MetaFilter and not the Oxford Union) they in turn get outraged and defensive and start accusing people of all manner of misfeasance. They can't just let it go. It doesn't do any good to tell them that being flip about rape, mutilation, &c. is a bad idea—it just makes them feel like Socrates being hemlocked for an opinion. There is no solution. But these MeTa threads are a hoot.
posted by languagehat at 4:56 PM on June 20, 2003 [1 favorite]

Reading this thread is about as close to the feeling of rape as I hope I'll ever get.
posted by adampsyche at 5:02 PM on June 20, 2003

Look, I agree I was insensitive. I can't speak for anyone else. The question is: If being insensitive is necessary to the discussion, shouldn't one be insensitive?

this, right here, is my HORSE COCK. my HORSE COCK stands for everything that i am, and my HORSE COCK says minya, STFU.

That's incredibly insensitive, and quonsar is (allegedly) on the opposite side of this issue as I am. Why does he appear to be so much more insensitive?

The reason: Because he's bringing up some argument that was settled six months ago. I'm sick of it, and I won't tolerate it anymore. That argument was bullshit, and it's bullshit to hold on to it for so long. It's over, so get the fuck over it!

languagehat:

I've apologized more than any person here. While I agree with you, I don't think quonsar should be your hero.
posted by son_of_minya at 5:02 PM on June 20, 2003

Calm down, quonsar. Give me time to do some work and get home. I guess I don't live for metafilter and check back every 4 minutes like you expect me to!!

The "there's nothing sacred about your pussy, you know" wasn't about rape, but it certainly was a mildly misogynistic, flippant remark. But you're right, you didn't remark in the Metafilter post-you did that here. My mistake.
posted by aacheson at 5:03 PM on June 20, 2003

For what it's worth, I found the comments in the thread pretty nasty too. Heaven forbid that anyone around here stop for one single moment and think about how their comments may sound to someone else. And yes, this is only a website, blah blah blah it's not real cakes, but I really wonder if any of you act like this with people you know face to face. And if not, then why do you feel that it is appropriate to do so here?
posted by eilatan at 5:07 PM on June 20, 2003

son_of_minya, this is the second time this week that you've been embroiled in a dust up that spilled from MetaFilter to MetaTalk, and I don't think the last one involved quonsar. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why this keeps happening?
posted by timeistight at 5:15 PM on June 20, 2003

Maybe this kind of intellectual curiosity is insensitive since it doesn't matter to the person who's undergoing the trauma what the actual source of it is, but I'm participating in a forum, not counseling a survivor, so I think it's within reasonable bounds, no?

I vote yes.
posted by rushmc at 5:20 PM on June 20, 2003

son_of_minya - you are a microbe. Please go and find somewhere more compatible with your self-confessed "borderline psychotic" nature.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 5:25 PM on June 20, 2003

this, right here, is my HORSE COCK. my HORSE COCK stands for everything that i am, and my HORSE COCK says minya, STFU

Why limit yourself to horse cocks, when there are so many more exotic things out there? I can think of a couple of members who may be interested in WOP-10 in particular.
posted by TedW at 5:26 PM on June 20, 2003

timeistight:

This is an ongoing argument, going back at least six months.

While I do hold myself to account, the blame here is not on me. While it is constructive to look within for the cause of one's problems, that is not always the actual source. It is only a useful self-help tool.

Quonsar and WolfDaddy have a personal grudge against me, and intentionally provoke me. Anyone else, I'll give at least three posts in a thread to form an opinion that I can respond to.

I have also been wrong in times past. Soyboy and Ed were not entirely irrational. I may have disagreed with them, but they were smart, and convinced me that they were smart. Quonsar and Crustaceanrub, on the other hand, are just jackasses.

BUT... I have forgiven quonsar, for at least the second time, and will stop bad-mouthing him. I just ask that he stops bad-mouthing me.

Show me a rape victim, I will try as hard as I can to make her feel better. Show me someone who intentionally messes with me, I'll laugh at him. I apologize if I have given a mixed message.
posted by son_of_minya at 5:26 PM on June 20, 2003

Show me a rape victim, I will try as hard as I can to make her feel better

On a more serious note than my last comment, as this thread shows, not all rape victims are "her"
posted by TedW at 5:35 PM on June 20, 2003

TedW: Thank God you said that, because I'm not allowed to.
posted by son_of_minya at 5:41 PM on June 20, 2003

the thread was pretty informative IMO, but it was kinda sad to see people (s_o_m, et.al) get flak for stating their own honest beliefs - in a fairly reasonable manner - from the majority of the others in the blue and in here just because those opinions didn't precisely jive with the ethics of others.

hey, like horse cock said: "and if you find what someoine writes on a goddam discussion board to be so friggin' offensive, then you seriously need to pull your head out of the sand."

quonsar is basically 1) enjoying himself, 2) giving the bad guys (as he sees them) a hotfoot, and 3) entertaining those who have a meepzorp kind of attitude. If you don't like it, best to ignore it.

quonsar likes to jerk off with that big fat ~~ego~~ horsecock and cum all over the faces of his whores as his crowd cheers him on... sometimes quonsar apologizes for cumming on his whores.
posted by poopy at 5:42 PM on June 20, 2003

mdn, just to clarify - you didn't offend me in the least, and yes, you have every right to discuss your viewpoint and you do so reasonably and well. I don't think you are morbid and insensitive - I just felt that I had to challenge your statement.

I would probably engage further, but I think this thread is too much of a trainwreck to engage in a serious discussion. I just didn't want to leave that issue open - please be assured that I certainly have no bad feelings about you!

And also for the record, I would not delete the other thread even tho much of it is offensive to me.
posted by madamjujujive at 5:44 PM on June 20, 2003

I just think that it's important to know who was really wrong

And see, that's just not at all true.
posted by padraigin at 5:46 PM on June 20, 2003

I only added the thing about not being one to hold rape as intrinsically worse than other trauma to clarify that my disgust with the comments in the thread could not be linked to personal sensitivity to the issue at hand

Ok, mdn, fair enough. Perhaps instead of calling you morbid and insensitive, I should have just said "What an irrelevant distinction."

I think you're pointing out that social stigma adds to the pain of the rape survivor. And this is certainly true.
posted by scarabic at 6:03 PM on June 20, 2003

That is why I must comment here, or not comment at all.

I vote option B. Time out, everyone. Back to your corners. Step away from the keyboard. Deep breath. Let this blow over. In two days it won't even matter any more -- except maybe that "sore pussy" will probably eventually take its place in the MeFi lexicon alongside "horse cock" (or, in my case, "little camper").
posted by mcwetboy at 6:04 PM on June 20, 2003

Trainwreck, or no, I think son_of_minya has a point. My personal view is that, yes, he was being an intentional idgee-it. But there appears to be a point behind it. Rape is fantasized, mythologized, and general seen as different from other crimes. I agree that his arguments were insensitive, but not together all that shallow. When we send big hero Dawgs after those "unclean" rapist types, don't most of us cheer a little louder than we do for the same person nabbing a drunk driver? That query is terribly insensitive to any who've been hurt by a DUI or DUI accident. That doesn't make the question any less valid. Many in the thread chose to attack the insensitivity, rather than just answer the question. That just backs minya's point ... many of us take rape more seriously for reasons we'd rather not devulge.

All that having been said, s_of_m did go over the top with the ignorance display, and forgot that he was talking to humans and not Vulcans. As with the homosexual thread long ago, would you please try and have a thought once you posit the first one, son_of_minya?

quonsar, is it bed-time yet? You're a little out of control tonight, my friend.
posted by Wulfgar! at 6:06 PM on June 20, 2003

I don't think quonsar should be your hero.

Don't worry, he's not. But he makes me laugh, and that's worthwhile. If you were funny, your obnoxiousnous would be more forgivable. Keep it short and funny, that's the ticket.

Quonsar and WolfDaddy have a personal grudge against me, and intentionally provoke me

Well, you don't have to respond to the provocation, you know. Self-restraint can be remarkably productive.
posted by languagehat at 6:09 PM on June 20, 2003

If you don't like it, best to ignore it.

No, best that you all be asked (or forced) to leave. This site seems to be worse for the presence of those with "a meepzorp kind of attitude", and it's a damned shame you all abuse Matt's generosity with things like this idiotic MetaTalk thread and the referenced disgusting MetaFilter thread.

Keep your foolish personal arguments in email where theyr'e not happening on someone else's dime, and try to be at least a crude facsimile of human if it's past your abilities to be sensitive to others. Even better, try to discuss things like the posts made on the main site, instead of foisting your not-very-clever "cleverness" on others.
posted by anildash at 6:13 PM on June 20, 2003 [1 favorite]

Who exactly are "you all," anildash? I haven't abused anything.
posted by timeistight at 6:45 PM on June 20, 2003

What Anil said, in spades.

Also

You know what's the problem with this site? People seldom think before posting.

This is not always true, but it is certainly closer to true than once it was, which is a pity, because that's one thing that made this site special, for me at least.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:06 PM on June 20, 2003

oh no, its not close the site down time again is it ?
your'e the one that posts when he's pished stav.
posted by sgt.serenity at 7:10 PM on June 20, 2003

This whole train wreck, driver included, is not worth my time. I pay it mind because I'm bored.

What is worth noting is that the cocksuckers (or cocksucker) in #mefi BANNED ME over it. I wasn't even talking about this bullshit, but the fucker banned me. I wrote, "You believe I would have cut my right hand off, right?" (or something like that), and the mother fucker BANNED ME.

For the record, I bet my right hand against quonsar's lies. Under any amount of torture, he will break first, because he is lying. If I break first, I will surrender my right hand.

I agreed to stop talking about quonsar and his lies, though. I instead asked, "You believe I would surrender my right hand, right?" I WAS THEN BANNED.

Say what you will about chat rooms in general, but #mefi is definitely full of shit. Bunch of in-crowd mother fuckers, who have no use for reason whatsoever. The individuals among them, I will forgive, but as a whole I consider the venture a whole bunch of bullshit.

To all you fucking worthless pieces of shit in #mefi: Ask yourself who went too far. You are not all worthless, but one of you has given you that reputation.
posted by son_of_minya at 7:13 PM on June 20, 2003 [18 favorites]

youre not as bad as this though, ill give you that stav , and youre cuddly . bye minya.
posted by sgt.serenity at 7:16 PM on June 20, 2003

I lurked on metafilter quite a while before I became a member. What drew me in was the wit and intellegence, as well as the general respect that the posters demonstrated. I wanted to become a part of that. I know my posts in this thread, and in many others, have not been the most constructive, but they were used to try and lighten up a rather dark and all too nasty conversation. Unfortunately, the tone of metafilter and MeTa has become altogether petty and spite filled; the wit and intelligent banter seems to have disappeared. I'd say that because of that I'm going to leave, but a) no-one would care and b) FPPs made by members such as miguel, mjjj and plep, as well as a few others, still make this site worthwhile to visit. I guess I'd just like to say that it's a pity things seem to be going downhill. I hope this is merely a slump, and that things will return to normal, and posters such as quonsar, s_o_m et al will rediscover the qualities that used to make this site so fabulous. Keep up the good work, those who remember what it used to be all about, and to those who have forgotten; I hope it comes back to you.
posted by dazed_one at 7:19 PM on June 20, 2003

On preview: bye minya.
posted by dazed_one at 7:20 PM on June 20, 2003

son_of_minya: "For the record, I bet my right hand against quonsar's lies."

Do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds? At the risk of repeating a cliche, it's just a website.

Step away from the monitor, go get some fresh air and fer cryin' out loud, give it a rest before the Gods become angry and rain frogs or something down on us all. Your treading on pretty thin ice here and nothing good can come of perpetuating this.

BTW, thank you for respecting my wishes regarding email.
posted by cedar at 7:22 PM on June 20, 2003

your'e the one that posts when he's pished stav.

Bullshit. Speak for yourself. But, despite the fact that this is the third time I've noticed you attempt to backhandedly slur me in Meta that way, I won't get sucked into the kind of histrionic pissing match already in progress here. That would be too self-referentially funny. If you want to argue about it, sgt.serenity, you can take it to email.

[/aside]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:27 PM on June 20, 2003

right, ok,i drop it.
posted by sgt.serenity at 7:29 PM on June 20, 2003

Re: "bye minya"

I'm the one disappointed with people. It may be a bunch of morons on a website, but I still hold human beings to a certain level of responsibility.

Insulting me was extremely offensive, but the #mefi crowd has sunk at least one level below that. Due to the action of one person, I think they're all scum.

A real man would say, "Take a knife, quonsar, and face Minya to the death." If they would not say that, they could at least say, "We'll shock both of you with electiricity until quonsar admits his lies." I would accept either decision.

What I cannot accept is being pushed around because I refuse to accept the lies of a liar. Much less, being pushed around because people think I'm arguing with a liar. I was doing nothing anything like that when that mother banned me! I can do without #mefi and their ways.
posted by son_of_minya at 7:34 PM on June 20, 2003 [3 favorites]

s_o_m: then start walking the talk and drop it.
posted by jmd82 at 7:44 PM on June 20, 2003

> Due to the action of one person, I think they're all scum.
Can you please give me an irrevocable licence to put that on t-shirts. I plan on retiring by the time I'm five minutes older.

> I refuse to accept the lies of a liar.
No, you must accept the lies of a liar. It's expected of you (to accept the lies of a liar).
posted by holloway at 7:47 PM on June 20, 2003 [1 favorite]

thankyou minya , i was unable to see how quonsar had ruined my very existence until you posted these last comments, i stand in awe of your genius and i must humbly beg your forgiveness, if only we had more in metafilter like you , we could invade poland.
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:06 PM on June 20, 2003

minya, what is up with you this week?

I don't always agree with your point of view, fine, no big deal, but this, whatever the hell it is that you're doing, this is not acceptable. Your juvenile high school put-yer-dukes-up, fight-like-a-man, cut off my right hand is so far beyond left field that I don't even know what to say to you. Here goes anyway.

Instead of doing the mature thing by walking away from a pissing match that nobody can win, and yes, that's a reference to the previous thread you started, you brought it back, you brought it to #mefi and you are not only making yourself look stupid, but you are making this site and all of its members look stupid. Just stop. Make your own blog at Blogspot and rant on all you want. Hell, give away the password so that anybody can comment, just stop dragging everybody thru the mud with you. If quonsar is lying, it doesn't matter whether we believe you or not, since the only two people who really matter already know the truth. Minya, you obviously feel that your honour has been hurt. I can appreciate that, but in all seriousness, you will be seen as the most honourable if you simply back away from it all. Really. Just stop posting here for a while. Stop visiting, even, if you find that you're getting upset about stuff.

If you want respect, respect those who don't deserve your respect, if that makes any sense.
posted by ashbury at 8:11 PM on June 20, 2003

sgt. serenity: don't mention the war!
posted by timeistight at 8:17 PM on June 20, 2003

My whole point is to make the site and its members look stupid. This whole thing is stupid. Nobody should even pay attention to it, but they do; and I got got banned from #mefi after I had stopped talking about it.

I just made on innocent comment about cutting my right hand off, and BAMM! I was banned. That is not fair, when the person who told lies and pushed an issue far beyond reason is still welcome there.

What you do have to realize is that I like Japanese TV shows because I am a Japanese TV show character. I have the best of intentions, but I am completely unreasonable. I realize that.

I just can't reconcile with someone who is completely unreasonable and has bad intentions. I'm going to walk away, but it is out of disappointment, and not out of an effort to establish any kind of image.
posted by son_of_minya at 8:32 PM on June 20, 2003 [1 favorite]

My whole point is to make the site and its members look stupid.

As this thread progresses, that's not who's looking stupid.
posted by Vidiot at 8:39 PM on June 20, 2003

vidiot:

One pulls the others down with him.

Everyone looks stupid from this. Especially considering that I'm right.

I don't care what any of you think about me. You should care what others think about you.
posted by son_of_minya at 8:41 PM on June 20, 2003

Why do I get the feeling that s_o_m's comments would fit really well in giant letters, centered on a page, running all the length of a single-page website with white on black text and liberal use of <b> tags?
posted by Space Coyote at 8:50 PM on June 20, 2003

Some of the more memorable flameouts on this site have occurred when the person involved didn't have the good sense to shut up for their own sake. Regardless of whether they were right or wrong, they were not helping their own case.

(Hint.)
posted by mcwetboy at 8:51 PM on June 20, 2003

Space Coyote:

That is because you are insane.

I don't know how else to say this. I am nobody. I'm just some person who expressed an opinion. It's the community that suffers from harshly judging people who have opinions.

If you remember, or scroll up a little, this thread is not about me. It was about someone called delmoi. I just happen to think it's petty to make these judgements.

When someone engages in lies and petty battles for popularity, judge them. When they just state an opinion, try to understand them.

I have no case. I have nothing to defend. I'll leave everyone alone as soon as they get it.
posted by son_of_minya at 8:54 PM on June 20, 2003

Oh son-of-minya, from a waterfall, I'm calling you who-who-who...
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:56 PM on June 20, 2003 [2 favorites]

This site seems to be worse for the presence of those with "a meepzorp kind of attitude"

Wow. I think several thousand madamjujujive fans would beg to differ.
posted by padraigin at 8:57 PM on June 20, 2003

minya, go for a walk. Give it a rest. You win, okay?
posted by ashbury at 8:59 PM on June 20, 2003

That's awesome, Miguel. That'll be useful for pointing lots of different folks towards.

What happened to BoozeDoctor?
posted by Vidiot at 9:05 PM on June 20, 2003

s_o_m, it might lend some credibility if you nested you rants inside of 40,000 [small] tags and removed all the line breaks. The Yakuza will accept just a pinkie— is MetaFilter so badass we need a hand? Why not go the full route and commit sepuku? Then we'll all believe you.

Also, what anil said
posted by yerfatma at 9:05 PM on June 20, 2003

I don't care how many lies he tells about me. This, right here, is my word. My word stands for everything I am, and my word says quonsar is a liar.

Everyone looks stupid from this. Especially considering that I'm right.

That is because you are insane.

A real man would say, "Take a knife, quonsar, and face Minya to the death." If they would not say that, they could at least say, "We'll shock both of you with electiricity until quonsar admits his lies." I would accept either decision.

I think son_of_minya is the Iraqi Information Minister.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:15 PM on June 20, 2003

Either that, or the new White House press secretary.
posted by Vidiot at 9:17 PM on June 20, 2003

yerfatma:

If that's what it takes, I'll do it. I'm not kidding.

I also agree with "what anil said," but as I've repeated many times, quonsar would not allow it. Scroll up a little to see who introduced this bullshit to the gray screen.

I will burn quonsar in his tank, and fire will eat his stomach. In the meantime, I'm going to go to bed, disgusted.
posted by son_of_minya at 9:21 PM on June 20, 2003 [2 favorites]

Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.
posted by y2karl at 9:23 PM on June 20, 2003

I AM BATMAN!!!
posted by padraigin at 9:29 PM on June 20, 2003

this always happens when school lets out.
posted by crunchland at 9:35 PM on June 20, 2003

I don't care what any of you think about me. You should care what others think about you.

Leading by example, this is called:

Who gives a shit what you say? Why don't you listen to what I have to say, instead?

Your criticism is completely indifferent to me. You should pay more attention to my criticism of you.

I refuse, as a matter of principle, to make love to myself. You , however, should all go fuck yourselves.

Catchy, isn't it?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:35 PM on June 20, 2003

I mean, really, who needs TV? ;-P
posted by mischief at 9:41 PM on June 20, 2003

sarge: your'e the one that posts when he's pished stav.

stavros: Bullshit. Speak for yourself. But, despite the fact that this is the third time I've noticed you attempt to backhandedly slur me in Meta that way, I won't get sucked into the kind of histrionic pissing match already in progress here. That would be too self-referentially funny. If you want to argue about it, sgt.serenity, you can take it to email.

stav, evidently a photographic memory is a curse, 'cuz I could swear I remember you saying you were "a great proponent of PUI (posting under the influence)."
posted by Shane at 9:42 PM on June 20, 2003

hey, guys? heads up: I love you all. let's stop fighting. cheers.
posted by fishfucker at 9:47 PM on June 20, 2003

(because this is really all about me.)
posted by fishfucker at 9:47 PM on June 20, 2003

[Dr. Nick] Happy Solstice Everybody! [/Dr. Nick]
posted by y2karl at 9:51 PM on June 20, 2003

show me the fire eating your stomach.
posted by quonsar at 9:52 PM on June 20, 2003

Was that a metaphorical fire? if so I want my money back for these ringside seats I bought.
posted by Space Coyote at 9:56 PM on June 20, 2003

Whoops! My photo-memory forgot to remind me that stavros gets oddly and very vocally irritable when anyone suggests he's been drinking and posting. Guess I better drop it before it kicks this thread's comment count up even further : )
*backs away toward rear door, hopes nobody's waiting in the alley*
posted by Shane at 10:01 PM on June 20, 2003

dear god: send metafilter more lithium.
posted by crunchland at 10:05 PM on June 20, 2003

Let's hunt down and kill William Ray Cyrus
posted by y2karl at 10:07 PM on June 20, 2003

Let's hunt down and kill William Ray Cyrus

Deja vu noted. I'm shutting up now.
posted by Shane at 10:09 PM on June 20, 2003

has anyone seen the bridge? i'm looking for the confounded bridge.
posted by quonsar at 10:11 PM on June 20, 2003

rape is bad
posted by crunchburger at 10:14 PM on June 20, 2003

Let's hunt down and kill William Ray Cyrus

Or Morton Kondracke--I'm flex...
posted by y2karl at 10:19 PM on June 20, 2003

Are there any psychologists in the house? I really want to ask some questions about this phenomenon. There's a PhD in this for someone, I'm sure.
posted by Fabulon7 at 10:19 PM on June 20, 2003

See, now, THIS, this here is some serious unpleasantness. That other stuff, a few days ago... not so much, really.
posted by jonson at 10:31 PM on June 20, 2003

Can I burn quonsar? i mean out of curiosity. i love the guy/gal, but I really love burning shit.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 11:26 PM on June 20, 2003

I say ban the motherfucker.
posted by four panels at 12:48 AM on June 21, 2003

Shane : stav, evidently a photographic memory is a curse, 'cuz I could swear I remember you saying you were "a great proponent of PUI (posting under the influence)."

Which is not to say that I do it (anymore), or am required by law not to joke about it, for chrissakes.

Shane : My photo-memory forgot to remind me that stavros gets oddly and very vocally irritable when anyone suggests he's been drinking and posting.

Yes, I do, at times, for good reasons that I can't be bothered to go further into to satisfy your curiosity (beyond saying I was made to feel unwelcome in another mefi-related online community), you annoying little person. I took some deserved shit around here for PUI years back, and so I stopped.

But thanks for hounding me about it, and being part of the personal-attack problem around here recently, though.

At least sgt.serenity had the grace to withdraw his comment and apologize via email almost immediately after the fact. (Thanks, sarge.)

The first comment of mine you link to was a joke, son. The second comment of mine you link to was in a very nasty argument between y2karl and I about unrelated matters, since patched up, and my ire at what I perceived as a pointless dig (mis-perceived, actually, and for which y2karl gracefully and unnecessarily apologized later via email, despite the fact that it was my mistaken understanding that led me to fly off the handle) was only tangentially as a result of the comment in question. What your point in bringing up old wounds might be, particularly in the context of this nasty cesspool of a thread, is a mystery to me. But I reckon you're truly an asshole for doing it, given the implication I assume you're making.

You want a piece of me, I suggest you take it to email, as I suggested to the sarge, or kindly piss off.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:53 AM on June 21, 2003

There's a PhD in this for someone, I'm sure.

No, Fabulon7, I can categorically assure you that there isn't.
posted by Sonny Jim at 1:23 AM on June 21, 2003

I awoke in the Midsummer not to call night, in the white and the walk of the
morning:
The moon, dwindled and thinned to the fringe of a finger-nail held to the
candle,
Or paring of paradisaical fruit, lovely in waning but lustreless,
Stepped from the stool, drew back from the barrow, of dark Maenefa the mountain;

A cusp still clasped him, a fluke yet fanged him, entangled him, not quite
utterly.
This was the prized, the desirable sight, unsought, presented so easily,
Parted me leaf and leaf, divided me, eyelid and eyelid of slumber.

-- Gerard Manley Hopkins
posted by y2karl at 1:30 AM on June 21, 2003 [1 favorite]

Euclid alone has looked on Beauty bare.
Let all who prate of Beauty hold their peace,
And lay them prone upon the earth and cease
To ponder on themselves, the while they stare
At nothing, intricately drawn nowhere
In shapes of shifting lineage; let geese
Gabble and hiss, but heroes seek release
From dusty bondage into luminous air.
O blinding hour, O holy, terrible day,
When first the shaft into his vision shone
Of light anatomized! Euclid alone
Has looked on Beauty bare. Fortunate they
Who, though once only and then but far away,
Have heard her massive sandal set on stone.

Edna St. Vincent Millay
posted by y2karl at 1:36 AM on June 21, 2003

Consider the difference
in our actions and God's actions.

We often ask, "Why did you do that?"
or "Why did I act like that?"

We do act, and yet everything we do
is God's creative action.

We look back and analyse the events
of our lives, but there is another way
of seeing, a backward-and-forward-at-once
vision, that is not rationally understandable.

Only God can understand it.
Satan made the excuse, "You caused me to fall,
whereas Adam said to God, "We did this
to ourselves." After this repentance,
God asked Adam, "Since all is within
my foreknowledge, why didn't you
defend yourself with that reason?"

Adam answered, "I was afraid,
and I wanted to be reverent."

Whoever acts with respect will get respect.
Whoever brings sweetness will be served almond cake.
Good women are drawn to be with good men.

Honour your friend.
Or treat him rudely,
and see what happens!

Love, tell an incident now
that will clarify this mystery
of how we act feely, and are yet
compelled. One hand shakes with palsy.
Another shakes because because you slapped it away.

Both tremblings come from God,
but you feel guilty for the one,
and what about the other?

These are intellectual questions.
The spirit approaches the matter
differently. Omar once had a friend, a scientist,
Bu'l-Hakam, who was flawless at solving
empirical problems, but he could not follow Omar
into the area of illumination and wonder.

Now I return to the text, "And He is with you,
wherever you are," but when have I ever left it!

Ignorance is God's prison
Knowing is God's palace.

We sleep in God's unconsciousness.
We wake in God's open hand.

We weep God's rain.
We laugh God's lightning.

Fighting and peacefulness
both take place within God.

Who are we then
in this complicated world-tangle,
that is really just the single, straight
line down at the beginning of ALLAH?

Nothing.
We are
emptiness.

----

When you are with everyone but me,
you're with no one.
When you are with no one but me,
you're with everyone.

Instead of being so bound up with everyone,
be everyone.
When you become that many, you're nothing.
Empty.

-- Jalaluddin Rumi
posted by y2karl at 1:39 AM on June 21, 2003

Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths,
Enwrought with golden and silver light,
The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
Of night and light and the half-light,
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams.

-- William Butler Yeats
posted by y2karl at 1:43 AM on June 21, 2003

posted by y2karl at 1:56 AM on June 21, 2003

yay! Yeats/Millay/Rumi! Nicely put.
posted by Vidiot at 2:02 AM on June 21, 2003

Phew! that was close! nearly had a really pointless thread there....
posted by dash_slot- at 3:09 AM on June 21, 2003

To have his beautiful poem associated with such drivel (as this thread) I'm sure Yeats is rolling over in his grave.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 3:29 AM on June 21, 2003

i don't think the poetry is necessary. it is rather boring and uses up too much space. the bunnies are good. son_of_minya's lunacy is unexpected and gives a frisson of genuine excitement! his comment about burning quonsar in his tank is hilarious and shows that he may be a real person after all. jonson makes a brief cameo but senses that here, son_of_minya's virtuoso performance has taken things to the next level. could do with more swearwords, and perhaps a sub-plot. one hopes for more of the same, soon.
overall: 7.5
posted by mokey at 4:32 AM on June 21, 2003

Rex the leech,
rolled onto the beach
looking for something to suck.

A tit would be nice,
but I'll take a slice
of anything other than muck.

But the beach was deserted.
No corpuscles flirted.
Poor Rex was down on his luck.

'Til a lizard walked by,
and to Rex's eye -
what a good thing on which to get stuck!

So stick him he did
like popping the lid
of a jar full of cranberry snapple.

But soon Rex grew groggy
and trembly and foggy
and fell like a worm off an apple.

The lizard turned round.
with a lizardy sound
that sounded to Rex like gay laughter.

"What were you thinking?"
The lizard asked blinking -
"What in the world were you after?"

"Some refreshment," Rex said,
with a feeling of dread,
"now why don't you leave me alone?"

"But I might've died,"
the lizard replied,
"had you sucked me right down to the bone."

"Lucky for one of us
I am quite poisonous
else one of us might've run dry."

"As it is," said the Liz,
"It's time to get biz,
And show you that you can fly."

He aimed his eye
at the poor little guy
and his tongue snapped out like a whip.

And the leech flew south
right into his mouth.
"Taste's like English clam dip!"

But as Rex was flying,
soon to be dying,
he had a thrilling last hunch:

The lizard is deadly,
but I sucked a medly
of lizard juice for my lunch.

So though he might eat me
he cannot defeat me -
death shall have no dominion!

His own toxicity,
sweet synchronicity,
will kill him and that's my opinion.

--written on the back of a Burger King
time card, circa 1994, author anonymous, but
there were some strong suspicions...
posted by Opus Dark at 4:42 AM on June 21, 2003

I once swallowed a post from Nantucket
with thread too long to up-suck it;
the question was valid
but the comments were rabid
and if I could, I'd gladly upchuck it.
posted by taz at 5:11 AM on June 21, 2003

Metafilter: You want a piece of me?
posted by rushmc at 5:56 AM on June 21, 2003

Metafilter: Could do with more swearwords.
posted by dazed_one at 6:23 AM on June 21, 2003

Metafilter: serious unpleasantness.
posted by dash_slot- at 6:46 AM on June 21, 2003

A/S/L check ...
posted by rcade at 6:54 AM on June 21, 2003

y2karl, you got the wrong Gerald Manley Hopkins. The applicable poem is clearly "As posters catch fire, commenters draw flames"
posted by yerfatma at 6:59 AM on June 21, 2003

ooh, nice, yerfatma.

Well, everyone was being so nasty--it gets so tiresome when it's not your ego that's involved. I thought I'd put some space between that and whatever came next.

A heads up--the current Jonathan Richman tour schedule, starting from today:

Sat 06/21/03 Northampton, MA Pearl Street

Mon 06/23/03 New York, NY Knitting Factory

Tue 06/24/03 New York, NY Knitting Factory

Wed 06/25/03 Asbury Park, NJ The Saint

Thu 06/26/03 New Brunswick, NJ Court Tavern

Fri 06/27/03 Philadelphia, PA North Star

Sat 06/28/03 Rehoboth Beach, DE Dogfish Head Brew. Co.

Then there is this story regarding him from the Boston Phoenix--
DEPT. OF LABOR
Jonathan Richman and the Pissed Off Projectionists
BY CAMILLE DODERO

Labor struggles are steely-eyed showdowns, but the ongoing battle between Somerville Theatre management and its camp of picketing projectionists has recently broken into a bare-knuckle beat down. Four of the picture palace's seven part-time projectionists went on strike May 1, a day after demanding that the theater recognize their desire to join the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) Local 182; the demand was a bid to secure an increase from their $6.75-an-hour minimum wage. Now more than a month later - after the self-declared " Pissed Off Projectionists " offered to return to work unconditionally; after they haven't been scheduled for shifts; after the reel spinners went to labor court to contest the movie house's assertion that managers would be eligible to vote in an upcoming union election
because they'd been running the projectors since the strike; after an unknown vandal shattered the Somerville Theatre's front ticket window and the projectionists publicly swore they didn't know who was responsible - the conflict has become a sanguinary slugfest with indie-rock progenitor Jonathan Richman standing in the Pissed Off
Projectionists' corner.

Last week Richman moved his show from the Somerville Theatre to the Middle East Downstairs in support of the locked-out projectionists, but won't get into specifics about what factors led him to the decision. " While I disagree with the management of the Somerville Theatre on this particular issue, " Richman says over the phone from a tour stop in Toronto, " they've always been great when we played there - and I'd gladly play at the Somerville Theatre again. "

Richman admits he discussed the dispute with both sides for weeks and still isn't sure he understands who's to blame. " I don't think this is black and white, " Richman says. " I don't want anyone to look like the
enemy. " Nevertheless, the decision to pull out of the venue " was the conclusion I came to. I told both parties that I wasn't sure it was even the right decision, but this is how it looked to me. " He adds, " In the middle of what seems to be an honest labor dispute, I just figured that
it's not the time to play the theater. "

This past Monday, Richman's name still appeared on the Davis Square cinema's neon marquee, even though he'd yanked the engagement days earlier. As for the Somerville Theatre's stance, a female voice answering the phone for its executive office offered, " We have no comment. " And who is this? " Doesn't matter. Pretty much anyone you
talk to around here, this is what you're going to get. " ...

Me?

"I'm a union man all the way..."

The Band
King Harvest Will Surely Come

[Dr. Nick] Happy Solstice Everybody! [/Dr. Nick]
posted by y2karl at 7:36 AM on June 21, 2003

Get your own weblog, fuc...

Oh it's you, y2karl ;)

I really wish you would get your own weblog. If you make it, we will come. Pretty please?
posted by iconomy at 8:05 AM on June 21, 2003

dear god: send metafilter more lithium.

Right? I go away for a few weeks and it's like alla y'alls went off your meds and the whole place has gone decidedly sideways.

The creeps are creepier, the usually level-headed sorts have turned all humorless and preachy, and the XX/XY ratio seems worse'n ever. What on earth happened?
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:24 AM on June 21, 2003

"you annoying little person"

"son"

"But I reckon you're truly an asshole for doing it"

"or kindly piss off"

I stand speechless and overwhelmed by your wit, intellect, charm, and substantive arguments, stavrosthewonderchicken.

You want a piece of me

I want no part of you. Carry on. I will not presume to match words with you again.
posted by Shane at 8:40 AM on June 21, 2003

and you wonder why I post poems sometimes...

Aurora

Of bronze and blaze
The north, tonight!
So adequate its forms,
So preconcerted with itself,
So distant to alarms, -
An unconcern so sovereign
To universe, or me,
It paints my simple spirit
With tints of majesty,
Till I take vaster attitudes,
And strut upon my stem,
Distaining men and oxygen,
For arrogance of them

My splendors are menagerie;
But their completeless show
Will entertain the centuries
When I am, long ago,
An island in dishonoured grass
Whom none but the daisies know.

Emily Dickinson
posted by y2karl at 8:44 AM on June 21, 2003

Wow, that came off as bitter and pissed off in an already lousy thread. Time to turn the box off for a while. Let's just shake it off, stavros. In 2 days none of us will remember this thread.

I will apologize: to aacheson for making her thread even worse.
posted by Shane at 8:50 AM on June 21, 2003

The creeps are creepier, the usually level-headed sorts have turned all humorless and preachy, and the XX/XY ratio seems worse'n ever. What on earth happened?

Schooooool is out . FOR. THE. SUMMER.

Shoooooool is out. FOR. EVER.

Although I'm not really sure how that would effect things negatively.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:00 AM on June 21, 2003

four panels:

I say ban the motherfucker.

I agree, quonsar should be banned.

stavrosthewonderchicken:

You want a piece of me, I suggest you take it to email, as I suggested to the sarge, or kindly piss off.

What do you do when that happens three times, and you try taking it to e-mail, but the person directly tells you not to e-mail them? Then you take it to irc, but the person quotes every word you write to him in PM over to the public chat?

This is a perfect example of why I am so angry at the little jackass quonsar, and why everyone should empathize. If you scroll up, you'll see that he's admitted all but one claim I made against me, and that your anger towards shane was validated just a few comments down.

rcade:

A/S/L check...

Age: Bigger than you.
Sex: More of a man than you.
Location: If you come here, you won't make it out alive, so don't fucking ask!

(The above is sarcasm, for any possible jackasses who may misinterpret it and then try to insult me.)

You may be upset that this shouting match took place in public, but you have only quonsar to blame. He repeatedly harassed me, and repeatedly refused to give any explanation in private. The only explanation he's given in public is "he deserved it!"

You think this is ugly -- just think how lucky you are that none of you have blood on your clothes. If MetaFilter were, say, a University debate club which also uses e-mail and bulletin boards in addition to public meetings -- then this argument would be taking place in person. If this argument were taking place in person, everyone would have blood on their clothes. A man does not engage in the kind of behavior quonsar has without getting bloody.
posted by son_of_minya at 9:10 AM on June 21, 2003

Note for the reading impaired: stavrosthewonderchicken was not arguing with me. He was arguing with a person named shane who did the right thing and apologized, though it was a fairly slippery apology.
posted by son_of_minya at 9:11 AM on June 21, 2003

Twatbadger.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 9:23 AM on June 21, 2003

I think it's time to make up.

*gives s_o_m a big sloppy wet kiss on the cheek.*
posted by Space Coyote at 9:25 AM on June 21, 2003

I'll calm down as soon as I get my apology.

And I want one from WolfDaddy, too.

(Not a kiss, an apology.)
posted by son_of_minya at 9:28 AM on June 21, 2003

Stop it, stop it, stop it. Minya, quonsar, and whoever else who is throwing crap- we don't care who started it, we don't care who is right and who is wrong, and speaking for me at this point I can't even tell you apart in this sea of vitriol. Go find a Usenet thread if you want to continue to rip each others' throats out. This is NOT the appropriate place for your tantrums.
At the rate this is going, I would not blame Matt if he threw the Mefi server into the Pacific ocean!
posted by konolia at 9:29 AM on June 21, 2003

Everyone, I sincerely apologize for starting this thread. This is the FIRST and LAST time I do a FPP to Metatalk. I had no idea that it would turn into a massive hate-fest and an excuse for so many people with personal issues to once again, bring it all up.

I am so over this thread. And to summarize, I do now believe that Delmoi's post in the Metafilter thread was done to shock, but from the rapist point of view. (And for learning that I am glad I brought this over here.) I do believe that there are some sadly misogynistic postings in the Metafilter thread-but am happy to move on and ignore them now. But more importantly, I believe that there is way too much hatred and anger and obsession on the part of some people here. (And I'm not just talking about one person, there are a few of them.)

People, let's not post any more to this thread. Let's let it die a death it should have died a long time ago when we stopped talking about the posting in metafilter and moved on to more personal issues. Please. I beg you. JUST STOP NOW.
posted by aacheson at 9:31 AM on June 21, 2003

JUST STOP NOW.

Nope, I'll post once more to apologize.

though it was a fairly slippery apology.

No, s-o-m, that was no apology at all : )

stavros, I apologize for dredging up the past, which was the wrong thing to do. You're touchy about the drinking issue and you flew off about it w/ sarge, causing me to say, WTHell is he going on about again? But what I said didn't make anything better. I do think you fly off a little easily over perceived slights and Mefi-cop issues, which ticks me off, but that's as much my problem as yours : ) I should have e-mailed you or said nothing at all.

Everyone, I sincerely apologize for starting this thread. This is the FIRST and LAST time I do a FPP to Metatalk.

No, aacheson! --you did the right thing by bringing up this issue here. I'm very glad you addressed it. I sincerely hope you aren't cowed from further posts, when you feel the need.

We should all take a lesson here. When delmoi has an opinion to express on a sensitive subject, he should express it tactfully, in my opinion (as should everyone else). We should all take into consideration the fact that certain subjects like rape will always be combustible, and with good, painful reason for all parties, even ones peripherally involved.

And when something sets me off, I shouldn't opine in a way that makes it worse, as I did with stavros. When something sets any of us off, we should consider whether what we say next will make things any better or add any value to the discussion or atmosphere of discussion. Just say No to More Petrol on the Fire.

Have a good day. Sincerely. This shite isn't what we're here at Mefi for.
Sorry, aacheson, but I hope that was a good reason to disregard your request to STOP, heh.

In the interest of Peace,
posted by Shane at 10:09 AM on June 21, 2003

June 20, 2003 11:03 AM Subscribe

June 20, 2003
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