AppleFilter. It's a new pc. And it's faster. Hold me. June 20, 2003 7:44 AM Subscribe
AppleFilter. It's a new pc. And it's faster. Hold me.
machaus, I don't know when you decided MetaTalk was about being compelling, but it's time to drop that notion right quick.
posted by NortonDC at 7:53 AM on June 20, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 7:53 AM on June 20, 2003
Do you want Matt to delete his own post? Unless jousting at windmills is important to you, there has to be some purpose for this thread. Apple threads are inevitable. At least it wasn't a Dvorak article.
posted by machaus at 7:57 AM on June 20, 2003
posted by machaus at 7:57 AM on June 20, 2003
My hope is for it to not happen again. Voicing an objection, in the appropriate forum, is all I've got.
It's not technically interesting, (64-bit desktops have been in circulation among my friends since at least 1997 or 98 and my mail still uses one), it's not relevant to any broad spectrum of, you know, people, and there's no there there. Only the word "Apple" got it posted and that word only directly matters to about 5% of the pc using world. And the discussion is really banal, narrow, and frequently uninformed.
But other than it's great.
posted by NortonDC at 8:11 AM on June 20, 2003
It's not technically interesting, (64-bit desktops have been in circulation among my friends since at least 1997 or 98 and my mail still uses one), it's not relevant to any broad spectrum of, you know, people, and there's no there there. Only the word "Apple" got it posted and that word only directly matters to about 5% of the pc using world. And the discussion is really banal, narrow, and frequently uninformed.
But other than it's great.
posted by NortonDC at 8:11 AM on June 20, 2003
it's not relevant to any broad spectrum of, you know, people
Translation: "Everybody is just like me! If I don't like something, then it obviously doesn't appeal to a broad spectrum of, you know, people!"
Well, I say everybody is just like me, and this appeals to me greatly, so obviously it's a brilliant post that lots of people will find interesting.
So let's split the difference and say it is a post of moderate quality that is neither great nor awful, sort of like most of the other posts made on MetaFilter in a given day.
posted by kindall at 8:16 AM on June 20, 2003
Translation: "Everybody is just like me! If I don't like something, then it obviously doesn't appeal to a broad spectrum of, you know, people!"
Well, I say everybody is just like me, and this appeals to me greatly, so obviously it's a brilliant post that lots of people will find interesting.
So let's split the difference and say it is a post of moderate quality that is neither great nor awful, sort of like most of the other posts made on MetaFilter in a given day.
posted by kindall at 8:16 AM on June 20, 2003
Ok, percetage of people owning pc's: call it 50 %
Percentage of those owning Macs: call it 7 %
Percentage of those that need a faster pc: call it 10 %
Percentage of those that could afford a high-end Mac: call it 50 %
Percentage of those that would give a damn about something they can't buy yet: call it 50 %
Very generously, that yeilds 0.0875 % of the populace that would give a damn.
Percentage of those with anything interesting to say about it....
posted by NortonDC at 8:26 AM on June 20, 2003
Percentage of those owning Macs: call it 7 %
Percentage of those that need a faster pc: call it 10 %
Percentage of those that could afford a high-end Mac: call it 50 %
Percentage of those that would give a damn about something they can't buy yet: call it 50 %
Very generously, that yeilds 0.0875 % of the populace that would give a damn.
Percentage of those with anything interesting to say about it....
posted by NortonDC at 8:26 AM on June 20, 2003
I love AppleFilter. Then again, all my friends are still using abacuses.
posted by timeistight at 8:31 AM on June 20, 2003
posted by timeistight at 8:31 AM on June 20, 2003
Apple under Jobs is fanatical about leaks; people have been fired and/or sued for leaking information ahead of schedule. That this leak came from Apple's own servers makes it newsworthy.
Mac users are shitting their pants this morning. Among this very very small percentage of people this is very very big news. And, based on my impression of comments here and my conversations on
This isn't a post about the iBook getting a 100-MHz speed bump. I agree that there is a thing as too many Apple posts, but I don't think it's a question of banning the subject matter altogether (cf. shouting "NewsFilter!" on every news link), but rather of limiting posts on the subject to items that are truly newsworthy.
posted by mcwetboy at 8:35 AM on June 20, 2003
Mac users are shitting their pants this morning. Among this very very small percentage of people this is very very big news. And, based on my impression of comments here and my conversations on
#mefi, I'd say that Mac users are overrepresented as a proportion of the population on MetaFilter.This isn't a post about the iBook getting a 100-MHz speed bump. I agree that there is a thing as too many Apple posts, but I don't think it's a question of banning the subject matter altogether (cf. shouting "NewsFilter!" on every news link), but rather of limiting posts on the subject to items that are truly newsworthy.
posted by mcwetboy at 8:35 AM on June 20, 2003
You falsely assume that people who don't own Macs are uninterested in Macs. Not a single person I work with owns a Mac but most of them are fairly interested in Apple's new products. Why? Because they are interested in the computer industry, not just one corner of it, and Apple is a major player with a lot of influence.
Again, everyone is not just like you.
posted by kindall at 8:35 AM on June 20, 2003
Again, everyone is not just like you.
posted by kindall at 8:35 AM on June 20, 2003
I posted it (by the way, Kindall IMed it to me last night, I shoulda via'd him) because of the news leak angle. It's ho-hum news but the leak is the most interesting part. It has happened in the past, and was pretty big news.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:40 AM on June 20, 2003
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:40 AM on June 20, 2003
Very generously, that yeilds 0.0875 % of the populace that would give a damn.
And yet it already has more comments than the majority of yesterday's posts. It's a topsy turvy world.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:57 AM on June 20, 2003
And yet it already has more comments than the majority of yesterday's posts. It's a topsy turvy world.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:57 AM on June 20, 2003
In another Apple thread yesterday it wasn't just Mac users who shit their pants.
posted by putzface_dickman at 9:01 AM on June 20, 2003
posted by putzface_dickman at 9:01 AM on June 20, 2003
putzface_dickman, by my read that's not an Apple thread.
posted by NortonDC at 9:52 AM on June 20, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 9:52 AM on June 20, 2003
"It has happened in the past, and was pretty big news."
So recurring news items are what make for good posts?
"You falsely assume that people who don't own Macs are uninterested in Macs."
No, I don't. "Directly" was not a throwaway word choice.
posted by NortonDC at 9:59 AM on June 20, 2003
So recurring news items are what make for good posts?
"You falsely assume that people who don't own Macs are uninterested in Macs."
No, I don't. "Directly" was not a throwaway word choice.
posted by NortonDC at 9:59 AM on June 20, 2003
i think he means News Leaks via a website have happened in the past. So, you know, to web people that is one of those interesting things that happens online that directly concerns the web, web designers, web masters--the whole www foodchain. Like, will there be another web job opening at Apple, and an unmarked grave in the hills out of cupertino?
it definately wasn't a tech-news-masturbation post, if that is what you are complaining about.
posted by th3ph17 at 10:09 AM on June 20, 2003
it definately wasn't a tech-news-masturbation post, if that is what you are complaining about.
posted by th3ph17 at 10:09 AM on June 20, 2003
Taking Matt's own link to MeTa says enough about the attention-whoriness of the matter that we really don't need to discuss it further.
Some of us want the new Macs.
Some of us PC fan boys will be feeling unsecure that our consumer choice won't validate our 'betterness' and will feel the need to lash out anytime mentions they're a mac user (this happens a lot).
Some of us are interested in the web / news leak angle.
And some of us like to have our name in MeTa. So it's all good.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:28 PM on June 20, 2003
Some of us want the new Macs.
Some of us PC fan boys will be feeling unsecure that our consumer choice won't validate our 'betterness' and will feel the need to lash out anytime mentions they're a mac user (this happens a lot).
Some of us are interested in the web / news leak angle.
And some of us like to have our name in MeTa. So it's all good.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:28 PM on June 20, 2003
Okay, so long as it's not a personal attack or anything. You have a good day, too.
posted by NortonDC at 12:37 PM on June 20, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 12:37 PM on June 20, 2003
To summarize:
I'm insecure about my pc
I assume everybody is just like me
I post in MetaTalk to see my name
and I'm whining
Got it.
Now, which of those is the the one that makes it a good post?
posted by NortonDC at 12:46 PM on June 20, 2003
I'm insecure about my pc
I assume everybody is just like me
I post in MetaTalk to see my name
and I'm whining
Got it.
Now, which of those is the the one that makes it a good post?
posted by NortonDC at 12:46 PM on June 20, 2003
Not at all. If anyone else made such an obvious cry for attention on MeTa I'd have made fun of them for it too.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:46 PM on June 20, 2003
posted by Space Coyote at 12:46 PM on June 20, 2003
That explains my 2:1 MeTa:MeFi post ratio.
And, of course, what made it a good post.
posted by NortonDC at 1:36 PM on June 20, 2003
And, of course, what made it a good post.
posted by NortonDC at 1:36 PM on June 20, 2003
it's been pretty firmly established that any hardware news from Apple is okay on MeFi
I call bullshit on that.
posted by scarabic at 1:52 PM on June 20, 2003
I call bullshit on that.
posted by scarabic at 1:52 PM on June 20, 2003
I call bullshit on your bullshit call. That's bullshit2!
posted by timeistight at 2:25 PM on June 20, 2003
posted by timeistight at 2:25 PM on June 20, 2003
It's not technically interesting, (64-bit desktops have been in circulation among my friends since at least 1997 or 98 and my mail still uses one), it's not relevant to any broad spectrum of, you know, people, and there's no there there.
You'd better know what you're talking about, and your friends better be running UltraSPARCs and high-end MIPS archs, because that is a very. bold. statement.
This is the advent of 64-bit on the desktop, it's leaked from a company notorious for preventing and prosecuting leaks, and it's a very pretty computer with a neat operating system. I think it's fabulous news, and great post.
posted by j.edwards at 8:48 PM on June 20, 2003
You'd better know what you're talking about, and your friends better be running UltraSPARCs and high-end MIPS archs, because that is a very. bold. statement.
This is the advent of 64-bit on the desktop, it's leaked from a company notorious for preventing and prosecuting leaks, and it's a very pretty computer with a neat operating system. I think it's fabulous news, and great post.
posted by j.edwards at 8:48 PM on June 20, 2003
But if you actually have a Qube serving mail, I will buy it from you.
posted by j.edwards at 8:51 PM on June 20, 2003
posted by j.edwards at 8:51 PM on June 20, 2003
no matter where you fall on this extremely divisive issue, you have to admit that "It's a new pc. And it's faster. Hold me." was hilarious.
posted by mcsweetie at 8:23 AM on June 21, 2003
posted by mcsweetie at 8:23 AM on June 21, 2003
Except that 'PC' & 'Apple / Mac' are normally in conceptual opposition to one another (a category error?) - yes, it made me smile.
posted by dash_slot- at 10:03 AM on June 21, 2003
posted by dash_slot- at 10:03 AM on June 21, 2003
My problem with the FPP, not that it bothered me, is that /. already had a huge thread going on the topic and I wonder why MeFi needed it in a NewsFilter sense; I'm just guessing but I doubt more than one or two people actually saw their first mention of it here.
I do think Senor NortonDC is taking the pushback on his post a little too strongly, though, and I'm glad for the opportunity to pile on. Happy Sunday.
posted by billsaysthis at 11:30 AM on June 22, 2003
I do think Senor NortonDC is taking the pushback on his post a little too strongly, though, and I'm glad for the opportunity to pile on. Happy Sunday.
posted by billsaysthis at 11:30 AM on June 22, 2003
I think it was a very interesting post. And bill, not everyone is a /. reader.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 9:22 AM on June 23, 2003
posted by LittleMissCranky at 9:22 AM on June 23, 2003
it's been pretty firmly established that any hardware news from Apple is okay on MeFi
I call bullshit on that.
Yeah, I can't totally back that up. But I still think this (a FPP from when 20Gb iPods became available)would have been deleted if it had been about a product from someone other than Apple. So not just any hardware announcement, but the bar seems to be lower for Apple products.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:56 AM on June 23, 2003
I call bullshit on that.
Yeah, I can't totally back that up. But I still think this (a FPP from when 20Gb iPods became available)would have been deleted if it had been about a product from someone other than Apple. So not just any hardware announcement, but the bar seems to be lower for Apple products.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:56 AM on June 23, 2003
j.edwards - You'd better know what you're talking about, and your friends better be running UltraSPARCs and high-end MIPS archs, because that is a very. bold. statement.
Eat me. Alphas, they were and are running Alphas. Many of those were Multias, Digital's explicitly desktop targeted line of 64-bit computers, available since late 1994 or early 1995. Back then they ran Windows NT, Linux or Digital Unix. Now the machines run Linux.
This is the advent of 64-bit on the desktop
No, it's not. Not by about a decade.
billsaysthis, I don't think it's a good idea to define what's proper for MetaFilter based on what other sites are doing. Just make MetaFilter the best it can be, and let the rest of the net do it's own thing.
posted by NortonDC at 9:56 AM on June 23, 2003
Eat me. Alphas, they were and are running Alphas. Many of those were Multias, Digital's explicitly desktop targeted line of 64-bit computers, available since late 1994 or early 1995. Back then they ran Windows NT, Linux or Digital Unix. Now the machines run Linux.
This is the advent of 64-bit on the desktop
No, it's not. Not by about a decade.
billsaysthis, I don't think it's a good idea to define what's proper for MetaFilter based on what other sites are doing. Just make MetaFilter the best it can be, and let the rest of the net do it's own thing.
posted by NortonDC at 9:56 AM on June 23, 2003
Um, my point was not that /. was the only source of this info, just one that was hosting an already long discussion thread. The news was all over Mac and other tech news sites already. So what the heck is there to actually discuss on MeFi?
posted by billsaysthis at 12:08 PM on June 23, 2003
posted by billsaysthis at 12:08 PM on June 23, 2003
Eat me.
Calm down, kiddo, no one's after your lunch money so there's no dead to act like it.
On another note: oh my god these things are awesome.
posted by Space Coyote at 1:27 PM on June 23, 2003
Calm down, kiddo, no one's after your lunch money so there's no dead to act like it.
On another note: oh my god these things are awesome.
posted by Space Coyote at 1:27 PM on June 23, 2003
This is the advent of 64-bit on the desktop
No, it's not. Not by about a decade.
Your friends had workstations. Not personal computers.
What's the difference between a workstation and a personal computer? About ten years.
posted by kindall at 2:01 PM on June 23, 2003
No, it's not. Not by about a decade.
Your friends had workstations. Not personal computers.
What's the difference between a workstation and a personal computer? About ten years.
posted by kindall at 2:01 PM on June 23, 2003
No, Multias were not workstations, they were desktops, explicitly desktops. 64-bit Alpha workstations were introduced in 1992, 11 years ago. 64-bit Alpha desktops, DEC's Multia line, were introduced in late 1994, more than eight and a half years ago. The Multias were personal computers in every sense of the word. They coexisted with DEC's workstation products.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but there's a reason the desktops were powered by Alpha processor models with names like 21164PC when the workstations held chips with designations such as 21264, notably lacking the "PC" suffix.
Your post is just wrong. There's no way around it.
posted by NortonDC at 2:30 PM on June 23, 2003
Sorry to bust your bubble, but there's a reason the desktops were powered by Alpha processor models with names like 21164PC when the workstations held chips with designations such as 21264, notably lacking the "PC" suffix.
Your post is just wrong. There's no way around it.
posted by NortonDC at 2:30 PM on June 23, 2003
Explain this, then: If I could have bought a 64-bit machine in 1995 for a couple grand, why didn't I?
posted by kindall at 3:06 PM on June 23, 2003
posted by kindall at 3:06 PM on June 23, 2003
Kindall: Probably because you were waiting for next year.
The line between PC and workstation is so gray that there is plenty of wiggle room for either of you to be right. It's just marketing, fer chrissakes. Apple could say that they've just invented the first 64-bit doorstop, and I could say that the old DEC 3000 in the lab antedated that by a few years, and so on and so on.
On USENET a while back there were similar arguments over what a mainframe was. You can't think of a good set of truth conditions either, I promise you. The best anyone could come up with was this.
posted by tss at 3:26 PM on June 23, 2003
The line between PC and workstation is so gray that there is plenty of wiggle room for either of you to be right. It's just marketing, fer chrissakes. Apple could say that they've just invented the first 64-bit doorstop, and I could say that the old DEC 3000 in the lab antedated that by a few years, and so on and so on.
On USENET a while back there were similar arguments over what a mainframe was. You can't think of a good set of truth conditions either, I promise you. The best anyone could come up with was this.
posted by tss at 3:26 PM on June 23, 2003
Apparently because you weren't my friend. Get to know me!
posted by NortonDC at 3:44 PM on June 23, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 3:44 PM on June 23, 2003
No, Multias were not workstations, they were desktops, explicitly desktops.
Since it wouldn't run a desktop operating system (NT, Tru64, D'nix and probably Linux now), it wasn't a desktop. Since it wasn't marketed to the home user, it wasn't a desktop. There are a number of additional reasons (don't make me list them! please! I am sleepy!) that this computer is a workstation. Your friends are all just 1337. *craves 64 bit machine*
posted by j.edwards at 9:13 PM on June 23, 2003
Since it wouldn't run a desktop operating system (NT, Tru64, D'nix and probably Linux now), it wasn't a desktop. Since it wasn't marketed to the home user, it wasn't a desktop. There are a number of additional reasons (don't make me list them! please! I am sleepy!) that this computer is a workstation. Your friends are all just 1337. *craves 64 bit machine*
posted by j.edwards at 9:13 PM on June 23, 2003
What? Because it ran Windows NT it wasn't a desktop? You realize that leaves you in the position of arguing that Windows NT 3.X and 4.X were exclusively server-class operating systems, right?
posted by NortonDC at 9:23 PM on June 23, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 9:23 PM on June 23, 2003
You realize that leaves you in the position of arguing that Windows NT 3.X and 4.X were exclusively server-class operating systems, right?
It leaves me in the position of arguing that they are server and workstation operating systems -- not too difficult since they were titled:
Windows NT 4.0 Workstation
and
Windows NT 4.0 Server
respectively.
posted by j.edwards at 9:29 PM on June 23, 2003
It leaves me in the position of arguing that they are server and workstation operating systems -- not too difficult since they were titled:
Windows NT 4.0 Workstation
and
Windows NT 4.0 Server
respectively.
posted by j.edwards at 9:29 PM on June 23, 2003
So then any modern x86 pc is a workstation because it can run XP Server?
posted by NortonDC at 9:36 PM on June 23, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 9:36 PM on June 23, 2003
So then any modern x86 pc is a workstation because it can run XP Server?
Nope, but it would be if it could *only* run server or workstation software, or if it were exclusively marketed towards that sector. For example, DEC Alphas couldn't run any "desktop" OS until Linux, which doesn't really even count (more of a hobbyist thing). A good way to judge the desktop market is to see what you can buy in CompUSA.
Workstations have always been more powerful and cooler (not as cool as the "desktop server" market, but that's always been made up by IBM anyways), but the G5 really is the first 64-bit desktop computer (runs a "desktop OS", marketed towards the home user/families).
posted by j.edwards at 9:43 PM on June 23, 2003
Nope, but it would be if it could *only* run server or workstation software, or if it were exclusively marketed towards that sector. For example, DEC Alphas couldn't run any "desktop" OS until Linux, which doesn't really even count (more of a hobbyist thing). A good way to judge the desktop market is to see what you can buy in CompUSA.
Workstations have always been more powerful and cooler (not as cool as the "desktop server" market, but that's always been made up by IBM anyways), but the G5 really is the first 64-bit desktop computer (runs a "desktop OS", marketed towards the home user/families).
posted by j.edwards at 9:43 PM on June 23, 2003
Well, I wouldn't agree that the G5 towers are marketed towards families. Wait until they have the G5 iMacs.
posted by ursus_comiter at 4:45 AM on June 24, 2003
posted by ursus_comiter at 4:45 AM on June 24, 2003
the G5 really is the first 64-bit desktop computer (runs a "desktop OS", marketed towards the home user/families)
No, it's not, since by this measure the AMD Opteron has already beaten Apple since it is 64-bit and can run Windows XP Home, which certainly is "marketed towards the home user/families."
could *only* run server or workstation software, or if it were exclusively marketed towards that sector
Is MS Office exclusively workstation or server software? How about Quake and Doom? So far all the years that, marketing-wise, Dell failed to market to families and ceded that segment to Gateway, Dell only sold workstations or servers? If you get covered in mid 90's PC Mag, is that a sign that you're a pc? And I suppose that since DEC marketed the computer as the "Universal Desktop Box," to you that means it must have been a workstation and clearly not a desktop.
Kindall, I'm beginning to think that answer to your question is "Steve didn't tell me to."
And since, to my understanding, Apple isn't actually selling these yet, there is every chance Apple will be beaten to the desktop market by AMD with their Athlon64 in August. That would make Apple THIRD to the 64-bit desktop market.
And, by the way, the Athlon64 uses the same 64-bit extension of the X86 architecture that is used in the AMD Opteron, which is already on sale, and already runs any flavor of Windows XP, Linux, the Sims, MS Office, etc. Jobs did his audience a disservice when he used dual Xeon's for comparisons instead of dual Opterons, which are much more representative of the competition they will face at their launch, being 64-bit AND already faster than dual Xeons.
posted by NortonDC at 6:33 AM on June 24, 2003
No, it's not, since by this measure the AMD Opteron has already beaten Apple since it is 64-bit and can run Windows XP Home, which certainly is "marketed towards the home user/families."
could *only* run server or workstation software, or if it were exclusively marketed towards that sector
Is MS Office exclusively workstation or server software? How about Quake and Doom? So far all the years that, marketing-wise, Dell failed to market to families and ceded that segment to Gateway, Dell only sold workstations or servers? If you get covered in mid 90's PC Mag, is that a sign that you're a pc? And I suppose that since DEC marketed the computer as the "Universal Desktop Box," to you that means it must have been a workstation and clearly not a desktop.
Kindall, I'm beginning to think that answer to your question is "Steve didn't tell me to."
And since, to my understanding, Apple isn't actually selling these yet, there is every chance Apple will be beaten to the desktop market by AMD with their Athlon64 in August. That would make Apple THIRD to the 64-bit desktop market.
And, by the way, the Athlon64 uses the same 64-bit extension of the X86 architecture that is used in the AMD Opteron, which is already on sale, and already runs any flavor of Windows XP, Linux, the Sims, MS Office, etc. Jobs did his audience a disservice when he used dual Xeon's for comparisons instead of dual Opterons, which are much more representative of the competition they will face at their launch, being 64-bit AND already faster than dual Xeons.
posted by NortonDC at 6:33 AM on June 24, 2003
I see a lot of hand-wringing here, not really sure what is trying to be proven other than "macs are teh ghey! loozerz!". Go play on the -1 comment land in Slashdot if you're looking for some company. Funny how a thread was started because the poster supposedly didn't think MeFi was teh place to discuss computers, and that thread became the same poster wanking on about Alphas and windows NT and AMD chips you can't buy from Dell or HP...
posted by Space Coyote at 9:14 AM on June 24, 2003
posted by Space Coyote at 9:14 AM on June 24, 2003
Say what? It seems like a simple, fairly polite disagreement. Until you took a shit on it anyway. The point wasn't whether Macs or PCs are better, just whether the post would have been acceptable if it wasn't about an Apple product. The upshot seems to be: the post was important not as a product announcement but as an example of a corporate slip-up. The rest of the 64-bit argument is people avoiding work. So what?
posted by yerfatma at 10:00 AM on June 24, 2003
posted by yerfatma at 10:00 AM on June 24, 2003
yerfatma, clearly he's incensed by the zero critical comments I made about Apple products.
posted by NortonDC at 10:52 AM on June 24, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 10:52 AM on June 24, 2003
No, it's not, since by this measure the AMD Opteron has already beaten Apple since it is 64-bit and can run Windows XP Home, which certainly is "marketed towards the home user/families."
However, XP Home is not a 64-bit OS, and you're essentially running a 32-bit system. Once MS comes out with their 64-bit home OS, then a desktop Opteron computer will be a "64-bit desktop."
Is MS Office exclusively workstation or server software?
I misspoke (in writing) -- I meant Operating System rather than software. That should not have been difficult to deduce, seeing as an alternate interpretation would have rendered my argument rather foolish, which I am not.
As for your other objections, I stand by my prior statements.
The rest of the 64-bit argument is people avoiding work. So what?
I'm just waiting for a long calculation to finish!
posted by j.edwards at 12:39 PM on June 24, 2003
However, XP Home is not a 64-bit OS, and you're essentially running a 32-bit system. Once MS comes out with their 64-bit home OS, then a desktop Opteron computer will be a "64-bit desktop."
Is MS Office exclusively workstation or server software?
I misspoke (in writing) -- I meant Operating System rather than software. That should not have been difficult to deduce, seeing as an alternate interpretation would have rendered my argument rather foolish, which I am not.
As for your other objections, I stand by my prior statements.
The rest of the 64-bit argument is people avoiding work. So what?
I'm just waiting for a long calculation to finish!
posted by j.edwards at 12:39 PM on June 24, 2003
That leaves these unaddressed:
1) So far all the years that, marketing-wise, Dell failed to market to families and ceded that segment to Gateway, Dell only sold workstations or servers?
2) If you get covered in mid 90's PC Mag, is that a sign that you're a pc?
3) And I suppose that since DEC marketed the computer as the "Universal Desktop Box," to you that means it must have been a workstation and clearly not a desktop.
posted by NortonDC at 12:56 PM on June 24, 2003
1) So far all the years that, marketing-wise, Dell failed to market to families and ceded that segment to Gateway, Dell only sold workstations or servers?
2) If you get covered in mid 90's PC Mag, is that a sign that you're a pc?
3) And I suppose that since DEC marketed the computer as the "Universal Desktop Box," to you that means it must have been a workstation and clearly not a desktop.
posted by NortonDC at 12:56 PM on June 24, 2003
Fuckit, I'm going to make an effort not to beat you up over your errors out of respect for Matt's decision to delete the new AppleFilter thread.
posted by NortonDC at 12:59 PM on June 24, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 12:59 PM on June 24, 2003
1) So far all the years that, marketing-wise, Dell failed to market to families and ceded that segment to Gateway, Dell only sold workstations or servers?
They didn't do a good job of marketing to families, but they did. In addition, Dells shipped with a "desktop OS" (the one my family got in 1992 came with Windows 3.1).
2) If you get covered in mid 90's PC Mag, is that a sign that you're a pc?
Nope. Many PC magazines cover other types of computers. Some even cover printers.
3) And I suppose that since DEC marketed the computer as the "Universal Desktop Box," to you that means it must have been a workstation and clearly not a desktop.
Perhaps my choice of words describing "marketing" was poor. I would still note that it ran a Workstation operating system and you would not have been able to purchase one at an average computer store.
Fuckit, I'm going to make an effort not to beat you up over your errors out of respect for Matt's decision to delete the new AppleFilter thread.
Your non-sequiter restraint is appreciated.
posted by j.edwards at 3:25 PM on June 24, 2003
They didn't do a good job of marketing to families, but they did. In addition, Dells shipped with a "desktop OS" (the one my family got in 1992 came with Windows 3.1).
2) If you get covered in mid 90's PC Mag, is that a sign that you're a pc?
Nope. Many PC magazines cover other types of computers. Some even cover printers.
3) And I suppose that since DEC marketed the computer as the "Universal Desktop Box," to you that means it must have been a workstation and clearly not a desktop.
Perhaps my choice of words describing "marketing" was poor. I would still note that it ran a Workstation operating system and you would not have been able to purchase one at an average computer store.
Fuckit, I'm going to make an effort not to beat you up over your errors out of respect for Matt's decision to delete the new AppleFilter thread.
Your non-sequiter restraint is appreciated.
posted by j.edwards at 3:25 PM on June 24, 2003
Not only in appreciation of Matt's deletion of the new thread, but also in recognition of the fact that at least twice now you've redefined your own statements when shown they are false. Arguing against that is pointless. Leaving the trail visible is the only answer.
posted by NortonDC at 8:12 AM on June 25, 2003
posted by NortonDC at 8:12 AM on June 25, 2003
I sympathize with you Norton, no one ever believes me about my perpetual motion machine either.
posted by thirteen at 8:20 AM on June 25, 2003
posted by thirteen at 8:20 AM on June 25, 2003
you've redefined your own statements when shown they are false.
Clarified. Nobody's perfect, Nort, and I did eliminate those parts of my argument that you successfully retorted to.
posted by j.edwards at 10:17 AM on June 26, 2003
Clarified. Nobody's perfect, Nort, and I did eliminate those parts of my argument that you successfully retorted to.
posted by j.edwards at 10:17 AM on June 26, 2003
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posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:50 AM on June 20, 2003