Parallel-universe network site invite February 20, 2004 12:31 AM Subscribe
When MetaFilter's down, parallel-universe websites like Orkut contain valuable information as well as friendly confraternization - witness the MetaFilter board on the same website. Plus you get photos and intimate details of your favourite MeFi posters, whether friends or foes. How important are these parallel-universe network sites? Is Google's patronage indicative of things to come? And, yes, should we take over while it's hot? Does anyone want to be invited?
My pleasure, namespan! Invitation sent. :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:41 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:41 AM on February 20, 2004
God I'm beginning to loathe the highschooly buttpatting of all these social software sites. If you've invited me to one and I've ignored you, it's not 'cause I don't like you in particular.
(And the fact that I did in fact sign up for tribe.net way back when and for sylloge (aka Stewart)'s interesting Flikr recently (but have never actually logged in) and for others may well be used against me in a court of law, I know. If you've messaged me (or thumbed me up or whatever the terminology might be) on any of those sites and I never responded, it's cause I haven't logged into any of them for months and months.)
I feel another rant coming on. I'm turning into a cranky old parade-pissing bastard, ain't I?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:20 AM on February 20, 2004
(And the fact that I did in fact sign up for tribe.net way back when and for sylloge (aka Stewart)'s interesting Flikr recently (but have never actually logged in) and for others may well be used against me in a court of law, I know. If you've messaged me (or thumbed me up or whatever the terminology might be) on any of those sites and I never responded, it's cause I haven't logged into any of them for months and months.)
I feel another rant coming on. I'm turning into a cranky old parade-pissing bastard, ain't I?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:20 AM on February 20, 2004
I hate pointing this out to myself, but the pleasures I derive from not joining are a tad diluted by the absence of an invitation.
posted by Opus Dark at 1:28 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by Opus Dark at 1:28 AM on February 20, 2004
So tell me, Miguel, did you post that link to the MeFi mutual back-patting society knowing that no-one would be able to follow it, or did you just forget?
Also, what Opus Dark said.
posted by dg at 1:29 AM on February 20, 2004
Also, what Opus Dark said.
posted by dg at 1:29 AM on February 20, 2004
Oh come on. Matt's a member and he sometimes posts relevant information. Other members share and have fun. It's a friendly, informative and interesting supplement to status metafilter and the wiki MeFi status page. Almost like a MeTa-MeTa. And surely it's a good thing to keep busier fellow members in the know about these sidelines, however insignificant.
Opus Dark, you incorrigible brigand - the prospect of offering you the pleasure of rejecting an invitation is also a tad diluted by the absence of an e-mail. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:00 AM on February 20, 2004
Opus Dark, you incorrigible brigand - the prospect of offering you the pleasure of rejecting an invitation is also a tad diluted by the absence of an e-mail. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:00 AM on February 20, 2004
so anyway, what happened? what was the downtime for?
posted by andrew cooke at 3:58 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 3:58 AM on February 20, 2004
I wouldn't mind a look at orkut, if you're offering.
posted by davehat at 4:27 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by davehat at 4:27 AM on February 20, 2004
I've sent invitations, Tarrama, davehat, sebas and konolia - at least I think I have... I'm new to this too and I was hoping other Orkut members would chip in as well. I hope nobody things this thread was started, streetcorner-like, to solicit willing clients. The purpose was discussion, you know, about what it all means, if anything.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 4:46 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by MiguelCardoso at 4:46 AM on February 20, 2004
Well, I received the invite, but everytime I click on the join button the server spanks itself for being bad-bad.
However the next time I try it says the username has been taken already, so I'm probably signed up a few times by now...
BTW, I much more prefer www.flickr.com. However pronouncing it in Dutch it sounds like a bad slang word for gay people.
posted by sebas at 4:51 AM on February 20, 2004
However the next time I try it says the username has been taken already, so I'm probably signed up a few times by now...
BTW, I much more prefer www.flickr.com. However pronouncing it in Dutch it sounds like a bad slang word for gay people.
posted by sebas at 4:51 AM on February 20, 2004
I'm turning into a cranky old parade-pissing bastard, ain't I?
yes, yes you are, and i've sent you an invitation just to irritate. orkut's been good for those of us who had raging withdrawal symptoms during what will come to be known as the great blackout of 2004. mind you, it's not too useful or innovative otherwise. altho' reading the insane testimonials mefites give each other is pretty amusing. quonsar's are the best by far.
posted by t r a c y at 4:54 AM on February 20, 2004
yes, yes you are, and i've sent you an invitation just to irritate. orkut's been good for those of us who had raging withdrawal symptoms during what will come to be known as the great blackout of 2004. mind you, it's not too useful or innovative otherwise. altho' reading the insane testimonials mefites give each other is pretty amusing. quonsar's are the best by far.
posted by t r a c y at 4:54 AM on February 20, 2004
orkut's been good for those of us who had raging withdrawal symptoms
Yes, but the point of the post was that Miguel's a member.
posted by yerfatma at 4:56 AM on February 20, 2004
Yes, but the point of the post was that Miguel's a member.
posted by yerfatma at 4:56 AM on February 20, 2004
Holy shit. How fucking low are you willing to go, people?
I love you all, really I do, but my good satanic god what a naked fucking suckfest this thread is. How revealing it is, too.
(Not, of course, that naked fucking and sucking is such a bad thing when it involves real spit and juice and semen and sweat and strawberries and shaved chihuahuas. But digitally, it's just a wee bit sad, boys and girls.)
Imminent demise of somethingorfuckingother predicted.
Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:09 AM on February 20, 2004
I love you all, really I do, but my good satanic god what a naked fucking suckfest this thread is. How revealing it is, too.
(Not, of course, that naked fucking and sucking is such a bad thing when it involves real spit and juice and semen and sweat and strawberries and shaved chihuahuas. But digitally, it's just a wee bit sad, boys and girls.)
Imminent demise of somethingorfuckingother predicted.
Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:09 AM on February 20, 2004
By which I mean, Migs - this is a MetaTalk thread that's all about you you you! in the worst old community-abusive Miguelian style that I thought you'd been shamed out of doing, and you suck very very badly for posting it.
I love you still, but you suck today, my friend. Of course your offer of ass to kiss (fresh! digital! ass!) is perhaps less embarrassing than those who are puckering up and lining up to kiss it.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:18 AM on February 20, 2004
I love you still, but you suck today, my friend. Of course your offer of ass to kiss (fresh! digital! ass!) is perhaps less embarrassing than those who are puckering up and lining up to kiss it.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:18 AM on February 20, 2004
*pictures the chicken bouncing, ricocheting, & screeching 'round the room like vintage daffy duck*
posted by t r a c y at 5:20 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by t r a c y at 5:20 AM on February 20, 2004
pthpthpthphtpthpth---ahhhh!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:23 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:23 AM on February 20, 2004
I'm an orkut addict, but it's not without its bugs. Whenever I send out an invite it seems to disappear into the void. Sometimes people get the invitation e-mail three days later, sometimes not at all. (they should be running PHP, grumble grumble.)
posted by PrinceValium at 5:24 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by PrinceValium at 5:24 AM on February 20, 2004
*applies preparation h to stav's poor , unloved , ass.*
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:25 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:25 AM on February 20, 2004
*sighs with relief*
I pray that you all don't get the wrong idea when I claim that, sarge's comment notwithstanding, my ass is loved. Loved like a motherfucker!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:31 AM on February 20, 2004
I pray that you all don't get the wrong idea when I claim that, sarge's comment notwithstanding, my ass is loved. Loved like a motherfucker!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:31 AM on February 20, 2004
Never been one to pass up a 'naked fucking suckfest,' so yes, I wouldn't mind an invite, Miguel.
I don't think I've ever seen a MetaFilter username at any of my usual haunts, so can't really comment on parallel universe support groups.
posted by jack_mo at 5:35 AM on February 20, 2004
I don't think I've ever seen a MetaFilter username at any of my usual haunts, so can't really comment on parallel universe support groups.
posted by jack_mo at 5:35 AM on February 20, 2004
*raises hand* .... it'll be the umpteenth socral networking site I've tried ... but I'd like an invite too please :)
posted by MintSauce at 5:36 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by MintSauce at 5:36 AM on February 20, 2004
since miguel doesn't seem to be around at the moment i've sent invites to the last bunch that asked. if migs' gets to you first, don't feel bad about skipping mine.
posted by t r a c y at 5:47 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by t r a c y at 5:47 AM on February 20, 2004
I've joined one or two web-communities that require an invitation. These sites, in my experience, seem to have fewer flame wars and pointless posts than totally open message boards. Most of these sites have been pretty easy to join if you want to join them. One of them just required that I email the host, asking him to let me in. He let everyone in who asked him. But somehow just that tiny requirement kept the site relatively garbage-free.
(Has Matt ever considered an invite-system of Metafilter?)
So since my experience on such sites has been good (in general), I would love an invite if anyone's willing.
posted by grumblebee at 5:59 AM on February 20, 2004
(Has Matt ever considered an invite-system of Metafilter?)
So since my experience on such sites has been good (in general), I would love an invite if anyone's willing.
posted by grumblebee at 5:59 AM on February 20, 2004
Inviting Miguel to join kinda defeats the whole invitation system.
posted by jpoulos at 6:03 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by jpoulos at 6:03 AM on February 20, 2004
Share and share alike and live and let live; dear jpoulos and stav: that's always been my philosophy. I hate coteries, cabals, elites and nudge-nudge-wink-wink "we're so cool that nobody else knows" conspiracies. I'll invite anyone who wants to be invited and, after many years experience, I find it makes for the best parties - by far! :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:08 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:08 AM on February 20, 2004
I'd like an invite, if only to check the place out.
posted by Prospero at 6:44 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by Prospero at 6:44 AM on February 20, 2004
I will let you be my friendster...
posted by boost ventilator at 6:46 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by boost ventilator at 6:46 AM on February 20, 2004
Well, I just have to say that I have had the privledge of being deleted TWICE by orkut.
Seriously, Orkut is a hack and isn't a community I'd really like to be a member of. It's a community designed for like minded people, people who conform to a certain style and who act and believe in a certain set of ideals. Also, it is controlled by angry Gods who demand appeasement and who have really bad customer service skills.
The first time I was deleted because I was helping another member test the system and the second time, someone probably marked me as bogus because of something I said, or because I wasn't using my real name (the whole requirement for your first and last name field to be filled in seems stupid to me).
I really think that orkut was designed for orkut to meet women and then it ended up being taken over by google for maybe some data mining purposes. Google is trying to change how it operates right now because they know that there are better search algorithms that are being developed and tested that could blow it out of the water.
posted by Stynxno at 6:49 AM on February 20, 2004
Seriously, Orkut is a hack and isn't a community I'd really like to be a member of. It's a community designed for like minded people, people who conform to a certain style and who act and believe in a certain set of ideals. Also, it is controlled by angry Gods who demand appeasement and who have really bad customer service skills.
The first time I was deleted because I was helping another member test the system and the second time, someone probably marked me as bogus because of something I said, or because I wasn't using my real name (the whole requirement for your first and last name field to be filled in seems stupid to me).
I really think that orkut was designed for orkut to meet women and then it ended up being taken over by google for maybe some data mining purposes. Google is trying to change how it operates right now because they know that there are better search algorithms that are being developed and tested that could blow it out of the water.
posted by Stynxno at 6:49 AM on February 20, 2004
If anyone wants an invite, please email me with your chosen first and last name (can be initials, I just have to fill something in), and an email address. My email is in my profile.
posted by astruc at 6:49 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by astruc at 6:49 AM on February 20, 2004
Suck it.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:55 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:55 AM on February 20, 2004
Suck it.
Whoa there! No dinner and a movie first?
posted by Stynxno at 6:56 AM on February 20, 2004 [1 favorite]
Whoa there! No dinner and a movie first?
posted by Stynxno at 6:56 AM on February 20, 2004 [1 favorite]
controlled by angry Gods who demand appeasement and who have really bad customer service skills.
It's free - who's a customer?
posted by PrinceValium at 6:58 AM on February 20, 2004
It's free - who's a customer?
posted by PrinceValium at 6:58 AM on February 20, 2004
What's this "friend" thing I keep hearing so much about? Is it something you need a television for?
posted by tommasz at 7:26 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by tommasz at 7:26 AM on February 20, 2004
Orkut data mining (density maps and member lists by lat/long or zip code).
Also, this thread is nauseating, and Miguel is a tool.
posted by Dean King at 7:26 AM on February 20, 2004
Also, this thread is nauseating, and Miguel is a tool.
posted by Dean King at 7:26 AM on February 20, 2004
ho hum .... constant 'Bad, bad server. No donut for you' error messages ..... perhaps another day.
posted by MintSauce at 7:30 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by MintSauce at 7:30 AM on February 20, 2004
Please invite me!
grokosaurus@yahoo.com
I want to be popular.
posted by mecran01 at 7:32 AM on February 20, 2004
grokosaurus@yahoo.com
I want to be popular.
posted by mecran01 at 7:32 AM on February 20, 2004
It's free - who's a customer?
If you're using the service, you're a customer. If you are deleted, they should TELL you and why. Yes, it is free, but why has a free service ever allowed someone to treat their users badly? Metafilter is free and Matt does a pretty good job in the customer service department.
posted by Stynxno at 7:35 AM on February 20, 2004
If you're using the service, you're a customer. If you are deleted, they should TELL you and why. Yes, it is free, but why has a free service ever allowed someone to treat their users badly? Metafilter is free and Matt does a pretty good job in the customer service department.
posted by Stynxno at 7:35 AM on February 20, 2004
I hate . . . "we're so cool that nobody else knows" conspiracies.
Infinitely preferable is the "we're so cool everyone knows" type, yes?
posted by yerfatma at 7:38 AM on February 20, 2004
Infinitely preferable is the "we're so cool everyone knows" type, yes?
posted by yerfatma at 7:38 AM on February 20, 2004
Holy shiznit, Dean King! Those maps are incredible! Thanks.
Styxno, this is nonsense: "It's a community designed for like minded people, people who conform to a certain style and who act and believe in a certain set of ideals."
Far be it from me to defend Orkut - my issues with it are a matter of public record - but this just sounds like sour grapes on your part.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:46 AM on February 20, 2004
Styxno, this is nonsense: "It's a community designed for like minded people, people who conform to a certain style and who act and believe in a certain set of ideals."
Far be it from me to defend Orkut - my issues with it are a matter of public record - but this just sounds like sour grapes on your part.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:46 AM on February 20, 2004
Please do not send me an invite no matter what.
Unfriendster. Steal his car.
posted by y2karl at 7:56 AM on February 20, 2004
Unfriendster. Steal his car.
posted by y2karl at 7:56 AM on February 20, 2004
I'm still pissed at Synxno for getting himself deleted just as my friendcount was about to pass quonsar's... (no wait... he was also on q's friendslist...)
Anyway, if Miguel hadn't posted "Anybody wanna Orkut invite?", I was going to, so thank you Migs for taking the flak.
(Any of you new Orkutters wanna be a Friend of Wendell?)
posted by wendell at 7:57 AM on February 20, 2004
Anyway, if Miguel hadn't posted "Anybody wanna Orkut invite?", I was going to, so thank you Migs for taking the flak.
(Any of you new Orkutters wanna be a Friend of Wendell?)
posted by wendell at 7:57 AM on February 20, 2004
"Also, this thread is nauseating, and Miguel is a tool."
Yes. But he's *our* tool. That's what community is all about. Embracing our tools.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:58 AM on February 20, 2004
Yes. But he's *our* tool. That's what community is all about. Embracing our tools.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:58 AM on February 20, 2004
Me. Me. Orkut me! Please!
posted by VulcanMike at 7:59 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by VulcanMike at 7:59 AM on February 20, 2004
Please do not send me an invite no matter what.
y6, you are the master of reverse psychology...
posted by wendell at 8:02 AM on February 20, 2004
y6, you are the master of reverse psychology...
posted by wendell at 8:02 AM on February 20, 2004
Far be it from me to defend Orkut - my issues with it are a matter of public record - but this just sounds like sour grapes on your part.
Actually, I think it's more of an attempt by me to believe like I can actually cause someone to mark me as bogus because of my free-wheeling ideas and my "against the grain" attitude.
Actually, I'm really just cranky today. Please ignore me.
And Wendell, it's not my fault! (mostly)
posted by Stynxno at 8:03 AM on February 20, 2004
Actually, I think it's more of an attempt by me to believe like I can actually cause someone to mark me as bogus because of my free-wheeling ideas and my "against the grain" attitude.
Actually, I'm really just cranky today. Please ignore me.
And Wendell, it's not my fault! (mostly)
posted by Stynxno at 8:03 AM on February 20, 2004
"orkut's been good for those of us who had raging withdrawal symptoms"
I hear that Pepsi Blue helps a lot.
posted by matteo at 8:06 AM on February 20, 2004
I hear that Pepsi Blue helps a lot.
posted by matteo at 8:06 AM on February 20, 2004
*weighs up principles against curiosity*
erm ...
Okay, me too!
posted by carter at 8:56 AM on February 20, 2004
erm ...
Okay, me too!
posted by carter at 8:56 AM on February 20, 2004
MetaFilter was down?
posted by eyeballkid at 9:06 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by eyeballkid at 9:06 AM on February 20, 2004
What the hell is this orkut thing? You can't check it out if you're not a member, so how are you supposed to figure out if you want to be a member? I'm just confused.
posted by MsVader at 9:09 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by MsVader at 9:09 AM on February 20, 2004
it's not that fab--i prefer monkeyfilter for that ersatz-Mefi experience...
Orkut is just a messageboard, with pics and event listings.
posted by amberglow at 9:13 AM on February 20, 2004
Orkut is just a messageboard, with pics and event listings.
posted by amberglow at 9:13 AM on February 20, 2004
If Orkut networks it's "customers" by invites only, why ask?
posted by thomcatspike at 9:13 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by thomcatspike at 9:13 AM on February 20, 2004
The obvious other option is that I could code some of the features at those sites, but have them here. Things like photo galleries (not that hard really), free-form forums for banter, etc.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:26 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:26 AM on February 20, 2004
Inviting Miguel to join kinda defeats the whole invitation system.
Some people like to break their toys.
posted by thirteen at 9:36 AM on February 20, 2004
Yeah! What mathowie said! In spades! Neener neener! Phooey on orkut!
posted by Lynsey at 9:38 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by Lynsey at 9:38 AM on February 20, 2004
By which I mean, Migs - this is a MetaTalk thread that's all about you you you! in the worst old community-abusive Miguelian style that I thought you'd been shamed out of doing, and you suck very very badly for posting it.
{giggles}
"Let him have his way, my darling," said the monk to Bertha. "Disobedient children often become great characters."
-Balzac
posted by clavdivs at 9:45 AM on February 20, 2004
I don't really see Orkut as an alternate to MeFi; but I am curious about how it may or may not work, socially and technically. And checking it out is probably more fun than what I'm supposed to be doing right now. And I never get invited to anything anyway.
all about you you you
Only because we're talking about him him him ...
*checks in-box to see if invite has arrived yet*
posted by carter at 9:50 AM on February 20, 2004
all about you you you
Only because we're talking about him him him ...
*checks in-box to see if invite has arrived yet*
posted by carter at 9:50 AM on February 20, 2004
screw it, i say we revert back to the original piece of social software and get a MeFi BBS.
posted by Hackworth at 10:02 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by Hackworth at 10:02 AM on February 20, 2004
The obvious other option is that I could code some of the features at those sites, but have them here. Things like photo galleries (not that hard really), free-form forums for banter, etc.
That sounds great, but when in the Sam Hill would you have time to do it?
posted by timeistight at 10:11 AM on February 20, 2004
That sounds great, but when in the Sam Hill would you have time to do it?
posted by timeistight at 10:11 AM on February 20, 2004
I'd be interested in checking out Orkut,
Please, please
Invite me
posted by DBAPaul at 10:22 AM on February 20, 2004
Please, please
Invite me
posted by DBAPaul at 10:22 AM on February 20, 2004
What I really want is to be invited without having to ask to be invited. That is, unless there's someway to sneak in.
I'm still waiting for my A-list invitation, by the way.
posted by timeistight at 10:31 AM on February 20, 2004
I'm still waiting for my A-list invitation, by the way.
posted by timeistight at 10:31 AM on February 20, 2004
What I really want is to be invited without having to ask to be invited.
But of course! And until we have been we must snark about how passé and socio-sexo-psychologically irrelevant orkut is (But yet we are titillated all the same). That's how the Cool Table works.
posted by bonehead at 10:46 AM on February 20, 2004
But of course! And until we have been we must snark about how passé and socio-sexo-psychologically irrelevant orkut is (But yet we are titillated all the same). That's how the Cool Table works.
posted by bonehead at 10:46 AM on February 20, 2004
I would never reject an invitation to a club that would reject me as a member.
posted by liam at 10:57 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by liam at 10:57 AM on February 20, 2004
until we have been we must snark about how passé and socio-sexo-psychologically irrelevant orkut is
I do that anyway. It's called "being blasé"!
And that, folks, is how the Cool Table really works.
j/k
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:58 AM on February 20, 2004
I do that anyway. It's called "being blasé"!
And that, folks, is how the Cool Table really works.
j/k
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:58 AM on February 20, 2004
We're all a bunch of lemmings, I tell you. Lemmings! Happy Little Lemmings!
Um.... invite please.
posted by grabbingsand at 11:15 AM on February 20, 2004
Um.... invite please.
posted by grabbingsand at 11:15 AM on February 20, 2004
Stynxno - are you sure you weren't just one of the several people who were accidently zapped during an orkut update gone wrong...? apparently it's happened a few times...
posted by t r a c y at 11:34 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by t r a c y at 11:34 AM on February 20, 2004
No one really knows me that well, I don't post much and I'm not that witty, but just close your eyes and pretend. I'd be interested to see what Orkut is all about, or at least why it's called orkut.
So.....um....anybody want to invite little ol' elwood?
posted by elwoodwiles at 11:41 AM on February 20, 2004
So.....um....anybody want to invite little ol' elwood?
posted by elwoodwiles at 11:41 AM on February 20, 2004
Tracy - I'm not sure, but getting deleted twice in 3 weeks is annoying. I also have a habit of attributing freak occurrences to things that sound mystical and make me look important in some way.
(and I was deleted the first time after angrymodem create a horsefuckers community that several people joined and everyone in that community was deleted - start conspiracy theory....NOW)
posted by Stynxno at 12:05 PM on February 20, 2004
(and I was deleted the first time after angrymodem create a horsefuckers community that several people joined and everyone in that community was deleted - start conspiracy theory....NOW)
posted by Stynxno at 12:05 PM on February 20, 2004
Yeah! What mathowie said! In spades!
I second that. I like Orkut, but Orkut doesn't feel comfy or conveniently navigable. Also, if you're not there to date or to play the "Look at all my friends" game (or if you're horrified by saying you're there "For Dating" even tho' you wouldn't mind hooking up maybe), you find yourself wondering what exactly you're supposed to do.
For example, people on Orkut tend to join groups merely as a way of representing themselves. "See, I'm a writer, so I'm a member of this group, and I crochet hoof-warmers for farm animals, so I'm a member of that group; This is who I am..." But, so much of the time, activities and even conversation in the groups just doesn't exist.
Not that the friend thing isn't fun, and it's a great ego-booster ("Madamjujujive wants to be my friend? My Gawd, I EXIST!") And photo galleries and chatty threads are fun, too. But maybe they'd be fun as MeFi ponies?
posted by Shane at 12:07 PM on February 20, 2004
I second that. I like Orkut, but Orkut doesn't feel comfy or conveniently navigable. Also, if you're not there to date or to play the "Look at all my friends" game (or if you're horrified by saying you're there "For Dating" even tho' you wouldn't mind hooking up maybe), you find yourself wondering what exactly you're supposed to do.
For example, people on Orkut tend to join groups merely as a way of representing themselves. "See, I'm a writer, so I'm a member of this group, and I crochet hoof-warmers for farm animals, so I'm a member of that group; This is who I am..." But, so much of the time, activities and even conversation in the groups just doesn't exist.
Not that the friend thing isn't fun, and it's a great ego-booster ("Madamjujujive wants to be my friend? My Gawd, I EXIST!") And photo galleries and chatty threads are fun, too. But maybe they'd be fun as MeFi ponies?
posted by Shane at 12:07 PM on February 20, 2004
Miguel, you should try posting without using question marks if you'd like to overcome the criticism that snaps at your coattails constantly. You're far too much in the practice of just picking a topic you think has depth, and posting it, with several question marks attached, as if those make it, somehow, a thread. Questions are nice, and open ended, and *can* get discussions started, but really, you're plumbing their depth as a post genre.
"Buttock sweat. Do we know enough about it? Isn't it high time we knew more? What does it mean, if anything? In a thousand years, will it still exist? And to whom will it belong?"
Seriously, Professor Question Mark, wean thyself.
posted by scarabic at 12:09 PM on February 20, 2004
"Buttock sweat. Do we know enough about it? Isn't it high time we knew more? What does it mean, if anything? In a thousand years, will it still exist? And to whom will it belong?"
Seriously, Professor Question Mark, wean thyself.
posted by scarabic at 12:09 PM on February 20, 2004
I joined orkut a few days ago, by invitation from another group who were all friending each other, more out of curiosity than anything else. I remember being a member of six degrees a few years ago, but other than a much better colour scheme, orkut doesn't have anything more to offer. The basic problem with the whole idea is that, while it's fun for the first day, while you add up all your friends and invite them, nobody actually uses these things except as ego-boosts. Actual networking is pretty much nil.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:45 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by jacquilynne at 12:45 PM on February 20, 2004
The obvious other option is that I could code some of the features at those sites, but have them here. Things like photo galleries (not that hard really), free-form forums for banter, etc.
Matt, set up the MeFi new member system first. The monkeys are at the gates... (and you have definately ruled out MeFites giving invitations, right? Right now, it'd be my best opportunity for income or a sex life...)
But free-form forums for banter?
What the freakinfilter do you think THIS is?
The only difference between MetaTalk and the MetaFilter Group discussion is "they got pictures".
And I don't think I have the emotional bandwidth to post my picture here... (bad haircut).
posted by wendell at 12:56 PM on February 20, 2004
Matt, set up the MeFi new member system first. The monkeys are at the gates... (and you have definately ruled out MeFites giving invitations, right? Right now, it'd be my best opportunity for income or a sex life...)
But free-form forums for banter?
What the freakinfilter do you think THIS is?
The only difference between MetaTalk and the MetaFilter Group discussion is "they got pictures".
And I don't think I have the emotional bandwidth to post my picture here... (bad haircut).
posted by wendell at 12:56 PM on February 20, 2004
Actual networking is pretty much nil.
I dunno... there are two functions I've found sites like Orkut to serve pretty well.
First, they're an easy way to track down friends-of-friends, learn more about them, etc. I'm talking about that person you met at your friend's house that one time, but never exchanged emails with, but whom you might want to know a little more about, or send a message to, etc. Becoming somone's "Friendster" is cheesy and kind of like sending valentine cards in the 5th grade, but it is a nice way to say "hi, I remember you, I like you, etc" to someone you don't know terribly well. Once you add them, you can learn a little more about the, and always know where to find them. This has been cool for me on a few occasions.
Second is reloacting long-lost old friends. In addition to name searches, Orkut's "communities" node level is a great feature, and it did enable me to locate a few old buddies via my alma mater's "community."
I dunno, I find that my relationship with casual acquaintances and long-lost friends is a little bit stronger and a little bit more fun thanks to Friendster/Orkut. I doubt anyone would argue that email has helped keep certain friendships alive, or having a blog, or using IM. Certain friends I see on MeFi more than anywhere else. Social networking sites are just another app int he toolbox. They have their place. I don't find it a "must-visit-every-day" kind of value, but it's value nonetheless.
posted by scarabic at 12:58 PM on February 20, 2004
I dunno... there are two functions I've found sites like Orkut to serve pretty well.
First, they're an easy way to track down friends-of-friends, learn more about them, etc. I'm talking about that person you met at your friend's house that one time, but never exchanged emails with, but whom you might want to know a little more about, or send a message to, etc. Becoming somone's "Friendster" is cheesy and kind of like sending valentine cards in the 5th grade, but it is a nice way to say "hi, I remember you, I like you, etc" to someone you don't know terribly well. Once you add them, you can learn a little more about the, and always know where to find them. This has been cool for me on a few occasions.
Second is reloacting long-lost old friends. In addition to name searches, Orkut's "communities" node level is a great feature, and it did enable me to locate a few old buddies via my alma mater's "community."
I dunno, I find that my relationship with casual acquaintances and long-lost friends is a little bit stronger and a little bit more fun thanks to Friendster/Orkut. I doubt anyone would argue that email has helped keep certain friendships alive, or having a blog, or using IM. Certain friends I see on MeFi more than anywhere else. Social networking sites are just another app int he toolbox. They have their place. I don't find it a "must-visit-every-day" kind of value, but it's value nonetheless.
posted by scarabic at 12:58 PM on February 20, 2004
free-form forums for banter, etc.
I thought you hated that, Matt.
posted by konolia at 1:06 PM on February 20, 2004
I thought you hated that, Matt.
posted by konolia at 1:06 PM on February 20, 2004
Please warn us before you open invites up, and the bottom drops out of the ebay metafilter login auctions.
posted by mecran01 at 1:28 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by mecran01 at 1:28 PM on February 20, 2004
Buttock sweat. Do we know enough about it?
Enough to know the proper name is "swass."
Whatever happened to FOAF?
At least one person is using it, though I suppose you need at least two to keep it from being depressing.
posted by yerfatma at 1:31 PM on February 20, 2004
Enough to know the proper name is "swass."
Whatever happened to FOAF?
At least one person is using it, though I suppose you need at least two to keep it from being depressing.
posted by yerfatma at 1:31 PM on February 20, 2004
I thought you hated that, Matt.
I do. I'd love to build photo galleries though.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 1:32 PM on February 20, 2004
I do. I'd love to build photo galleries though.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 1:32 PM on February 20, 2004
Without weighing in on the value (or lack of value) in these "communities," I must say that the thing that turns me off is the pseudo-exclusiveness of the whole thing. The claim is that it helps keep out the those who may cause trouble, but how effective is that if people are giving out invites like Nick the Bartender gave out wings in It's a Wonderful Life?
posted by terrapin at 1:35 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by terrapin at 1:35 PM on February 20, 2004
if you build em, we will come, matt, but what wendell said first....newbies! : >
posted by amberglow at 1:45 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by amberglow at 1:45 PM on February 20, 2004
the thing that turns me off is the pseudo-exclusiveness of the whole thing
I agree, there's some inevitable fallout to doing it invite-only. But there are many reasons to do it that way, too. First, every member joins with metadata about who helped them join. This adds structure. And naturally, it discourages spamming, multiple accounts, bogus accunts, wankers, etc. Also, by making membership exclusive, they create a rare commodity, which instantly makes people want it, even if it's subconscious. The resentment you feel is the conscious reaction to this psychological carrot they've dangled. Perhaps the best reason to do it invite-only is that no one else has done so yet (I could be wrong on that). This makes Orkut different and gives it a feeling of privacy. People who might feel weird about joining and sharing personal info somewhere wide open like Friendster might prefer Orkut's approach.
Besides, look at the bright side: if no one you know is involved, why would you want anything to do with it? ;)
posted by scarabic at 2:07 PM on February 20, 2004
I agree, there's some inevitable fallout to doing it invite-only. But there are many reasons to do it that way, too. First, every member joins with metadata about who helped them join. This adds structure. And naturally, it discourages spamming, multiple accounts, bogus accunts, wankers, etc. Also, by making membership exclusive, they create a rare commodity, which instantly makes people want it, even if it's subconscious. The resentment you feel is the conscious reaction to this psychological carrot they've dangled. Perhaps the best reason to do it invite-only is that no one else has done so yet (I could be wrong on that). This makes Orkut different and gives it a feeling of privacy. People who might feel weird about joining and sharing personal info somewhere wide open like Friendster might prefer Orkut's approach.
Besides, look at the bright side: if no one you know is involved, why would you want anything to do with it? ;)
posted by scarabic at 2:07 PM on February 20, 2004
I'd love to build photo galleries though.
OK. But disallow any photos in which the subject is obviously attempting to look edgy. (I volunteer to be an arbiter of acceptable artifice.)
posted by Opus Dark at 2:07 PM on February 20, 2004
OK. But disallow any photos in which the subject is obviously attempting to look edgy. (I volunteer to be an arbiter of acceptable artifice.)
posted by Opus Dark at 2:07 PM on February 20, 2004
stynxno: trondant and i discovered that placing an in lastname field satisfies orkut and of course, never displays in the browser. it does, however, show up as your last name in any orkut emails.
posted by quonsar at 2:08 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by quonsar at 2:08 PM on February 20, 2004
Oh, one other benefit. Since everyone joins via a friend, everyone starts out with at least one buddy, and some starting point to branch out from. If you take Miguel up on his offer, for example, you'll have hundreds of buddies to explore right away, vis-a-vis the MeFi group there. That's a better first exposure to the site than signing up, looking around, deciding the whole thing is dumb, and never coming back.
posted by scarabic at 2:09 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by scarabic at 2:09 PM on February 20, 2004
crap. that should be a non-breaking space up there:
posted by quonsar at 2:12 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by quonsar at 2:12 PM on February 20, 2004
If you take Miguel up on his offer, for example, you'll have hundreds of buddies to explore right away
How is that better? It is a useless network full of people who have no real connection to you. If I have a connection to person B via my friend A, they can talk to A and see if I am on the level if I try to make a connection with them.
What Miguel is doing is making the connections so promiscuous that they serve no purpose other than to improve your Pokemon rating.
posted by thirteen at 2:54 PM on February 20, 2004
How is that better? It is a useless network full of people who have no real connection to you. If I have a connection to person B via my friend A, they can talk to A and see if I am on the level if I try to make a connection with them.
What Miguel is doing is making the connections so promiscuous that they serve no purpose other than to improve your Pokemon rating.
posted by thirteen at 2:54 PM on February 20, 2004
Both Miguel and Madamejujujive have been kind enough to invite me, but so far it keeps giving me an error message and won't let me do it.
Stupid question-is the invite email the email of the person inviting or MY email? Or a third possibillity? And yes, my cookies are enabled.
posted by konolia at 3:09 PM on February 20, 2004
Stupid question-is the invite email the email of the person inviting or MY email? Or a third possibillity? And yes, my cookies are enabled.
posted by konolia at 3:09 PM on February 20, 2004
the system just seems to be wonky at the moment konolia... it's a beta so it has it's ups and downs, plus they might be in the middle of one of their troublesome upgrades again. try it again later or tomorrow.
some of you folks are just so frelling uppity, it's mind boggling LOL!
posted by t r a c y at 3:42 PM on February 20, 2004
some of you folks are just so frelling uppity, it's mind boggling LOL!
posted by t r a c y at 3:42 PM on February 20, 2004
Actually I figured it out-if you are on Hotmail you need to save the popup window to favorites, then click on it (in other words don't access the signup thru Hotmail. )
I'm in!
(AND the email is indeed the inviter not the invitee. )
posted by konolia at 4:02 PM on February 20, 2004
I'm in!
(AND the email is indeed the inviter not the invitee. )
posted by konolia at 4:02 PM on February 20, 2004
Hmm -- pity I prefer to remain pseudonymous on the net; that sort of defeats much of the purpose of this kind of site. (Or does it?)
posted by Zonker at 4:49 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by Zonker at 4:49 PM on February 20, 2004
Mathowie does not want our chat, but he will take our souls.
posted by liam at 4:55 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by liam at 4:55 PM on February 20, 2004
I wouldn't want to belong to the kind of club that would have me as a member.
posted by jfuller at 5:17 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by jfuller at 5:17 PM on February 20, 2004
So where are all you new MeFites who wanted to join Orkut? Did you get your invitations? Have you responded to them?
I WANT TWENTY NEW ORKUT FRIENDS BY NOON, TOMORROW!!!
Get to work, people!!!
posted by wendell at 6:40 PM on February 20, 2004
I WANT TWENTY NEW ORKUT FRIENDS BY NOON, TOMORROW!!!
Get to work, people!!!
posted by wendell at 6:40 PM on February 20, 2004
Thanks to Miguel and Madamjujujive for the invites but still can't login. I tried konolia's tip about saving to favourites but still end up with an invalid password or invalid email address response. Did anyone else manage to join?
What Matt said appeals far more though.
posted by Tarrama at 6:55 PM on February 20, 2004
What Matt said appeals far more though.
posted by Tarrama at 6:55 PM on February 20, 2004
Um, if anyone here has actually noticed me, I'd like an invite.
Please?
posted by weston at 7:43 PM on February 20, 2004
Please?
posted by weston at 7:43 PM on February 20, 2004
I too shall pass on the invites, whilst applauding Matt's idea.
Reverse-engineering Orkut's features onto MeFi would set a delightful number of precedents:
1) It would be reminiscent of 0100101110101101's mirroring of Hell.com, yet would involve hand-coded lines of XML, as opposed to copying some other server's contents wholesale.
2) Monkeyfilter and other sites could follow suit and code similar functions into their fora as well, which would eventually mean:
3) Zeldman, O'Rielly, and Wired would comment on the rising adoption of Orkut functionality on other sites, and would provide sample tutorial code which could fan the flames of inspiration even higher.
4) Eventually, a google search on Orkut via the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button could ultimately lead to a 0100101110101101.org mirror of MetaFilter's take on the Orkut.com website...or quite possibly, dancing kittens.
But that's another story. In any case, [this is good].
posted by Smart Dalek at 7:46 PM on February 20, 2004
Reverse-engineering Orkut's features onto MeFi would set a delightful number of precedents:
1) It would be reminiscent of 0100101110101101's mirroring of Hell.com, yet would involve hand-coded lines of XML, as opposed to copying some other server's contents wholesale.
2) Monkeyfilter and other sites could follow suit and code similar functions into their fora as well, which would eventually mean:
3) Zeldman, O'Rielly, and Wired would comment on the rising adoption of Orkut functionality on other sites, and would provide sample tutorial code which could fan the flames of inspiration even higher.
4) Eventually, a google search on Orkut via the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button could ultimately lead to a 0100101110101101.org mirror of MetaFilter's take on the Orkut.com website...or quite possibly, dancing kittens.
But that's another story. In any case, [this is good].
posted by Smart Dalek at 7:46 PM on February 20, 2004
I'd like to see what all the fuss is about, if someone would be so kind as to invite me.
posted by katieinshoes at 9:53 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by katieinshoes at 9:53 PM on February 20, 2004
I'd just like to take this opportunity to tell everyone that I emailed Orkut admin to remove my account today, and they were very nice and quick about it. Sorry to all my fans.
posted by brownpau at 10:28 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by brownpau at 10:28 PM on February 20, 2004
It is a useless network full of people who have no real connection to you.
If you say so. I thought maybe we all had something special going on here.
posted by scarabic at 12:27 AM on February 21, 2004
If you say so. I thought maybe we all had something special going on here.
posted by scarabic at 12:27 AM on February 21, 2004
Curiousity wins -- I would also appreciate an invitation.
posted by Zonker at 7:14 AM on February 21, 2004
posted by Zonker at 7:14 AM on February 21, 2004
Speaking of people who would like an invitation, me. I'll give ya a cookie.
posted by toothless joe at 11:15 AM on February 21, 2004
posted by toothless joe at 11:15 AM on February 21, 2004
Ah, you all are making me ask twice. I'd gratefully take an invite.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:53 PM on February 21, 2004
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:53 PM on February 21, 2004
I'm establishing a higher level of cool by not wanting an invite nor thinking it bad that some do. Aye!
posted by john at 1:01 PM on February 21, 2004
posted by john at 1:01 PM on February 21, 2004
i think it takes a day or two for invites to come thru--i invited a bunch of you (and i'm sure others have too)
posted by amberglow at 1:08 PM on February 21, 2004
posted by amberglow at 1:08 PM on February 21, 2004
"Oooh! Oooh! Miguel or Amberglow, over here! Yes, me, with the brightly colored plumage!," he said in a rather boyish way.
posted by moonbird at 1:35 PM on February 21, 2004
posted by moonbird at 1:35 PM on February 21, 2004
hook me up.
posted by pikachulolita at 2:52 PM on February 21, 2004
posted by pikachulolita at 2:52 PM on February 21, 2004
I just wasted an hour trying to invite all youze guyz...
(except carter, lola, joedan and Orb who don't have an email address on their member pages...)
I don't know if Orkut is actually sending out the invites, let me know if you get anything.
posted by wendell at 6:01 PM on February 21, 2004
(except carter, lola, joedan and Orb who don't have an email address on their member pages...)
I don't know if Orkut is actually sending out the invites, let me know if you get anything.
posted by wendell at 6:01 PM on February 21, 2004
*belittles Slagman*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:52 PM on February 21, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:52 PM on February 21, 2004
When the heck did I take down my email address?! Oh yeah, must have been one of those nights I was paranoid that Metafilter members were coming to get me. ;)
Oops ... guess that's why I'm never invited anywhere.
posted by Orb at 10:06 PM on February 21, 2004
Oops ... guess that's why I'm never invited anywhere.
posted by Orb at 10:06 PM on February 21, 2004
Invitations duly sent out (up to and including paisley). Though there seems to be some delay in receiving them, so far as I know all those sent on Friday have gotten through.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:59 PM on February 21, 2004
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:59 PM on February 21, 2004
Nope, gotcha LukeyBoy! :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:17 AM on February 22, 2004
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:17 AM on February 22, 2004
Damn! I leave the internet for a few days, and everybody gets invited to the virtual party but me. Anyone care to extend an invite? I can't act like I'm too good for it until I know exactly what I'm mocking.
posted by pomegranate at 5:48 AM on February 22, 2004
posted by pomegranate at 5:48 AM on February 22, 2004
pom, I have invited you.
But, one thing I have noticed in this process is that hotmail (and i think yahoo) addy's tend not to receive the emails. I don't know if this is an orkut thingy or not, but I just wanted to let people know in case someone isn't getting their invites. (i haven't looked at everyone's profile to know if some have those addy's listed and aren't getting them).
posted by thatothrgirl at 9:44 AM on February 22, 2004
But, one thing I have noticed in this process is that hotmail (and i think yahoo) addy's tend not to receive the emails. I don't know if this is an orkut thingy or not, but I just wanted to let people know in case someone isn't getting their invites. (i haven't looked at everyone's profile to know if some have those addy's listed and aren't getting them).
posted by thatothrgirl at 9:44 AM on February 22, 2004
I used hotmail, got my invite,but as mentioned upthread had to tweak things to get thru.
Pikachu, I sent you an invite just so's you know. (probably under the Name That Is Not Konolia tho.)
posted by konolia at 11:10 AM on February 22, 2004
Pikachu, I sent you an invite just so's you know. (probably under the Name That Is Not Konolia tho.)
posted by konolia at 11:10 AM on February 22, 2004
I just got my invite. It does seem to take some time to work its way through. Thanks t r a c y!
posted by elwoodwiles at 11:54 AM on February 22, 2004
posted by elwoodwiles at 11:54 AM on February 22, 2004
Ahh, no wait. Now that I take that crucial step of reading the email I learn that orkut is really slow on the invites. I'll wait a day or so than try again.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:40 PM on February 22, 2004
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:40 PM on February 22, 2004
Me, I'm waiting for the moment when the set of Orkut members becomes larger than the set of non-Orkut-members. Then I will be in the elite.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2004
posted by IshmaelGraves at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2004
there seems to be some delay in receiving them
Their tech support has confirmed for me that there are some issues getting them emailed out, but that anything queued will eventually make it.
posted by scarabic at 11:34 PM on February 22, 2004
Their tech support has confirmed for me that there are some issues getting them emailed out, but that anything queued will eventually make it.
posted by scarabic at 11:34 PM on February 22, 2004
So... we broke Orkut?
posted by grabbingsand at 5:19 AM on February 23, 2004
posted by grabbingsand at 5:19 AM on February 23, 2004
Yahoo also seems to be bouncing some of them -- thanks to t r a c y for persevering.
posted by Zonker at 5:35 AM on February 23, 2004
posted by Zonker at 5:35 AM on February 23, 2004
Yeah, very strange. I've yet to receive the invite from Miguel, though he sent it.
posted by LukeyBoy at 7:02 AM on February 23, 2004
posted by LukeyBoy at 7:02 AM on February 23, 2004
Oh hell, me too. I just like the concept of breaking orkut. It has a nice ring.
What did you do today? Broke orkut.
posted by CunningLinguist at 2:28 PM on February 23, 2004
What did you do today? Broke orkut.
posted by CunningLinguist at 2:28 PM on February 23, 2004
I'm in now (thanks t r a c e y) under my real name: Arthur Jennings.
posted by timeistight at 3:13 PM on February 23, 2004
posted by timeistight at 3:13 PM on February 23, 2004
I've sent invites to those who requested them today, so let me know if they didn't get through. (CunningLinguist, is that a real address in your profile?
posted by Zonker at 4:24 PM on February 23, 2004
posted by Zonker at 4:24 PM on February 23, 2004
I've also sent an invite to cunning, whom i know well from another context. Lets see which arrives first...
posted by vacapinta at 9:39 PM on February 23, 2004
posted by vacapinta at 9:39 PM on February 23, 2004
Actual networking is pretty much nil.
I disagree. I found, via another friend, one of my friends from 20 years ago with whom I had totally lost contact. I've run across a number of people with whom I'd lost contact...people from school, people from old jobs, people who I used to play rock-paper-scissors to see who had to be the designated driver.
Granted, not much actually goes on *in* orkut, except for a few groups...but as a network tool, it's actually been pretty useful to me. Plus, reading Quonsar's testimonials is pretty darned amusing. :)
A lot of you may get multiple invites, as I sent invites too. So, if you see an invite from Winifred Kensington-Smythe, that would be me.
posted by dejah420 at 10:02 PM on February 23, 2004
I disagree. I found, via another friend, one of my friends from 20 years ago with whom I had totally lost contact. I've run across a number of people with whom I'd lost contact...people from school, people from old jobs, people who I used to play rock-paper-scissors to see who had to be the designated driver.
Granted, not much actually goes on *in* orkut, except for a few groups...but as a network tool, it's actually been pretty useful to me. Plus, reading Quonsar's testimonials is pretty darned amusing. :)
A lot of you may get multiple invites, as I sent invites too. So, if you see an invite from Winifred Kensington-Smythe, that would be me.
posted by dejah420 at 10:02 PM on February 23, 2004
Wheee! I'm in! Now I can set my plan for world domination into motion. ;)
Does anyone else thing it's sort of strange that you can't upload pictures of pets? Is there some strange new pet fetish going around that I don't know about?
posted by Orb at 1:37 AM on February 24, 2004
Does anyone else thing it's sort of strange that you can't upload pictures of pets? Is there some strange new pet fetish going around that I don't know about?
posted by Orb at 1:37 AM on February 24, 2004
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posted by namespan at 12:34 AM on February 20, 2004