MeFi Swap February 18, 2004 1:59 PM Subscribe
Just a reminder: this Saturday is the last day to sign up for the current round of the MeFi Swap. 143 signed up so far, so this round should be pretty exciting.
i'm excited for it to start up again! thanks for all your work on the project dreama.
posted by nyoki at 2:44 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by nyoki at 2:44 PM on February 18, 2004
Dreama, altho I would love to participate-after a little googling, apparently this really does break copyright law. If I am wrong PLEASE tell me because this really does seem like a cool thing to do.
posted by konolia at 3:23 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by konolia at 3:23 PM on February 18, 2004
And no I'm not intending to turn into the Copyright Police either, if you were wondering.
posted by konolia at 3:24 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by konolia at 3:24 PM on February 18, 2004
konolia, didn't you ever put together a cassette tape of songs for a friend?
posted by amberglow at 3:44 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by amberglow at 3:44 PM on February 18, 2004
Apparently it is illegal...
"The RIAA's position is unambiguous: making a mixed CD of music you own and then giving that CD to someone who does not own that music violates copyright law."
It's news to me. Not that it mattered personally, I learned in the 80s I sucked at the art of mixtape.
sorry guys.
posted by jerseygirl at 3:55 PM on February 18, 2004
"The RIAA's position is unambiguous: making a mixed CD of music you own and then giving that CD to someone who does not own that music violates copyright law."
It's news to me. Not that it mattered personally, I learned in the 80s I sucked at the art of mixtape.
sorry guys.
posted by jerseygirl at 3:55 PM on February 18, 2004
What a bunch of pussies..... trade some damn mix CDs. Who cares if its illegal? The RIAA is personally going to sue all of us for trading mix tapes? Sure, possibly. I may also possibly die of a heart attack right here on the spot. Don't convolute yourselves with selfish, short sighted corporate laws. Your talking like we live in a goddamn oligarchy.
posted by Keyser Soze at 4:05 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by Keyser Soze at 4:05 PM on February 18, 2004
Holy mother of Christ, Keyser. Are you encouraging someone to break the law?
posted by xmutex at 4:21 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by xmutex at 4:21 PM on February 18, 2004
I am going to distribute the most fucked up punk rock compilation ever made.
posted by Keyser Soze at 4:25 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by Keyser Soze at 4:25 PM on February 18, 2004
I, for one, would hate to violate the RIAA's unambiguous position on the law. Luckily, I can respond with an unambiguous, "It is so not illegal!"
posted by subgenius at 4:42 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by subgenius at 4:42 PM on February 18, 2004
I'm in, and as a regular mixers of CDs for friends and such, if I'm ever found out I'll be up the river for sure. But not without a blog powered net campaign to come to my defense! [/snark]
posted by moonbird at 4:42 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by moonbird at 4:42 PM on February 18, 2004
Laws are subjective, right?
posted by SweetJesus at 4:43 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by SweetJesus at 4:43 PM on February 18, 2004
I'm pretty sure it's legal in Canada. Shepd might know better than me though.
So I may be signing up.
posted by ODiV at 5:57 PM on February 18, 2004
So I may be signing up.
posted by ODiV at 5:57 PM on February 18, 2004
... this really does break copyright law
The fact that it is wrong makes it even more fun ;-) YMMV.
posted by dg at 6:05 PM on February 18, 2004
The fact that it is wrong makes it even more fun ;-) YMMV.
posted by dg at 6:05 PM on February 18, 2004
It is legal in Canada. As long as we own the music we're mixing, from what I understand. So, mix away ODiV.
posted by Salmonberry at 6:17 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by Salmonberry at 6:17 PM on February 18, 2004
konolia, didn't you ever put together a cassette tape of songs for a friend?
Actually, no, unless you count the time my cousin and I taped songs off the radio back around 1970 or so....
I should tell you I am a songwriter and as such I always felt I needed to be real scrupulous in this area. Lots of my friends make cds for each other, and I don't make an issue of it for them.
I was mostly hoping one of you legal types could give me an out. *sigh*.
Anyhow, carry on and enjoy yourselves. Hopefully you will hear something new that you will want more of, thus making money for the artist too. Hopefully on independent labels?
posted by konolia at 7:40 PM on February 18, 2004
Actually, no, unless you count the time my cousin and I taped songs off the radio back around 1970 or so....
I should tell you I am a songwriter and as such I always felt I needed to be real scrupulous in this area. Lots of my friends make cds for each other, and I don't make an issue of it for them.
I was mostly hoping one of you legal types could give me an out. *sigh*.
Anyhow, carry on and enjoy yourselves. Hopefully you will hear something new that you will want more of, thus making money for the artist too. Hopefully on independent labels?
posted by konolia at 7:40 PM on February 18, 2004
I'm casting caution to the wind and signing up. Thanks for keeping this going, Dreama. I heard good things about the last round.
posted by Inkslinger at 8:11 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by Inkslinger at 8:11 PM on February 18, 2004
how about this, konolia? The 1992 Audio Home Recording Act: This system allows digital recorders to make a first-generation copy of a digitally recorded work, but does not allow a second-generation copy to be made from the first copy (users may still make as many first-generation copies as they want). more on it all here: Digitalconsumer.org
posted by amberglow at 8:31 PM on February 18, 2004
posted by amberglow at 8:31 PM on February 18, 2004
First of all, who the heck says you have to rip CDs of stuff Sony, BMI, etc has any damn interest in? I for one plan to use this as an opportunity to share music created by friends of mine who make it... and with their consent. And you know why? Because artists who aren't being ripped off by music companies realise that "word of mouth" (in this case, sharing the music with other people) is one of the best ways to get people to listen (yeah, and buy too) your music. Plus there are thousands of bands and artists who not only allow themselves to be recorded live by their fans, but also place their music on their web sites for free.
Not every artist is part of the RIAA/Clear Channel/MTV cartel. The fact is that very few artists make money with the current system because it is set up for them to lose. And now more and more artists are finding other ways to share their music. They are setting up their own web sites to share and sell their music. Plus with places like Cafepress, etc, they can also sell hats, flying discs, t-shirts and butt floss if they want. Some have set up their own ticketing services.
So I don't buy this shit been passed around that we as music fans have to sit on our hands like good little consumers, and listen to what we are force-fed by the likes of the aforementioned asshats.
If you don't feel comfortable ripping a single bloody song from a few musicians who move you, in order to share this music with someone else--someone who may just may go buy the other 10 songs by artist(s) you included on your mix--then perhaps you should consider other options such as, including your own music. Or ask a local band who you admire if you can include one their songs. (I asked some friends in a band, and they were all for it, and even asked me what song I was most interest in including.)
Sharing music does not automatically equate with stealing it. And sharing music is not illegal as long as multiple copies are not being made and sold. Friends are allowed to make copies of music as long as second generations aren't created.
Share music, people.
*steps off soap box*
posted by terrapin at 7:21 PM on February 19, 2004
Not every artist is part of the RIAA/Clear Channel/MTV cartel. The fact is that very few artists make money with the current system because it is set up for them to lose. And now more and more artists are finding other ways to share their music. They are setting up their own web sites to share and sell their music. Plus with places like Cafepress, etc, they can also sell hats, flying discs, t-shirts and butt floss if they want. Some have set up their own ticketing services.
So I don't buy this shit been passed around that we as music fans have to sit on our hands like good little consumers, and listen to what we are force-fed by the likes of the aforementioned asshats.
If you don't feel comfortable ripping a single bloody song from a few musicians who move you, in order to share this music with someone else--someone who may just may go buy the other 10 songs by artist(s) you included on your mix--then perhaps you should consider other options such as, including your own music. Or ask a local band who you admire if you can include one their songs. (I asked some friends in a band, and they were all for it, and even asked me what song I was most interest in including.)
Sharing music does not automatically equate with stealing it. And sharing music is not illegal as long as multiple copies are not being made and sold. Friends are allowed to make copies of music as long as second generations aren't created.
Share music, people.
*steps off soap box*
posted by terrapin at 7:21 PM on February 19, 2004
For the record, the MeFi Swap does not take an position regarding what participants choose to include on their CDs, nor do the organizing officials (namely moi) have any control over the choices of individual swappers in this regard. Many swappers have (in past swaps) chosen to share music which is their own, in the public domain or covered by an explicit "please share" from the artists or even a Creative Commons license. This is, of course, encouraged, and I have no doubt that these practices shall continue due to the "this moves me, I want it to move you too" nature of the project.
That said, the position of the RIAA in this matter is about as relevant (as far as I'm concerned) as the position of Yosemite Sam. The exposure gained by their artists (to the extent that they are included in swap mixes, which is rather negligible, to my knowledge) more than negates any perceivable harm. No one is sending out entire albums of single artists. What they are sending out is enough of a taste of many artists that mix recipients are encouraged to go out and buy. That's an undeniably good thing, whether the closed minds at the RIAA wish to admit and accept it or not.
Follow your conscience, of course. No one's holding a gun to anyone's head to participate and if it make you itchy or twitchy or otherwise unhappy in some way, you just don't have to have anything to do with it.
posted by Dreama at 7:39 PM on February 19, 2004
That said, the position of the RIAA in this matter is about as relevant (as far as I'm concerned) as the position of Yosemite Sam. The exposure gained by their artists (to the extent that they are included in swap mixes, which is rather negligible, to my knowledge) more than negates any perceivable harm. No one is sending out entire albums of single artists. What they are sending out is enough of a taste of many artists that mix recipients are encouraged to go out and buy. That's an undeniably good thing, whether the closed minds at the RIAA wish to admit and accept it or not.
Follow your conscience, of course. No one's holding a gun to anyone's head to participate and if it make you itchy or twitchy or otherwise unhappy in some way, you just don't have to have anything to do with it.
posted by Dreama at 7:39 PM on February 19, 2004
Woo, signed up.
Mix may suck, but I'm so looking forward to this!!
posted by tittergrrl at 8:20 PM on February 19, 2004
Mix may suck, but I'm so looking forward to this!!
posted by tittergrrl at 8:20 PM on February 19, 2004
What they are sending out is enough of a taste of many artists that mix recipients are encouraged to go out and buy. That's an undeniably good thing, whether the closed minds at the RIAA wish to admit and accept it or not.
I'd just like to point out that as a result of the 10 MeFi Swap CDs I've gotten over the course of the past year and a half or so, I've purchased 17 new albums ... that's more albums than I'd purchased in the prior six or seven years total, mainly because the MeFi swap exposed me to lots of music and artists I'd have no way to find out about here in the Rural Wastelands.
Plus, you know, we're paying royalties on every blank CD, audio, and video tape we buy anyway.....
posted by anastasiav at 9:14 PM on February 19, 2004
I'd just like to point out that as a result of the 10 MeFi Swap CDs I've gotten over the course of the past year and a half or so, I've purchased 17 new albums ... that's more albums than I'd purchased in the prior six or seven years total, mainly because the MeFi swap exposed me to lots of music and artists I'd have no way to find out about here in the Rural Wastelands.
Plus, you know, we're paying royalties on every blank CD, audio, and video tape we buy anyway.....
posted by anastasiav at 9:14 PM on February 19, 2004
... sharing music is not illegal as long as multiple copies are not being made and sold.
Keeping in mind that people are sharing music across many international borders, that may or many not be true. Anyone who has concerns about copyright issues should seek advice within their own jurisdiction.
posted by dg at 9:39 PM on February 19, 2004
Keeping in mind that people are sharing music across many international borders, that may or many not be true. Anyone who has concerns about copyright issues should seek advice within their own jurisdiction.
posted by dg at 9:39 PM on February 19, 2004
Given what I perceive (perhaps wrongly) to be the main MeFi demographic, if there is such a thing, I'm generally curious how people would feel if the CD swappers were swapping CDs full of books rather than songs, and if there would be a strong 'No, that's just wrong! Bad chicken!' consensus.
Not public domain books, mind you, but good, current, pirated e-books.
Not that I'm suggesting such a thing -- heaven forbid, Mr Rosewater -- but it's a question that's been on my mind on occasion in recent times.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:09 PM on February 19, 2004
Not public domain books, mind you, but good, current, pirated e-books.
Not that I'm suggesting such a thing -- heaven forbid, Mr Rosewater -- but it's a question that's been on my mind on occasion in recent times.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:09 PM on February 19, 2004
If anyone in the swap who would rather trade me literature for music I will be all for it.
posted by Keyser Soze at 2:25 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by Keyser Soze at 2:25 AM on February 20, 2004
email me Keyser--we can do a side swap (anyone else want in for a book swap?)
posted by amberglow at 4:44 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by amberglow at 4:44 AM on February 20, 2004
My office has a book swap of sorts. There is a bookshelf near the library were people can pick up books with the knowledge that they are expected to add a book for everyone they take. Or at minimum return the book when they are done reading it.
posted by terrapin at 4:54 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by terrapin at 4:54 AM on February 20, 2004
As for Stav's analogy, the equivilent in book swapping to the MeFi swap (at least IMHO) would be if you swapped chapters of books with the hope that someone would like the writing, style, etc and go buy the book.
posted by terrapin at 4:55 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by terrapin at 4:55 AM on February 20, 2004
Ooh, I'm in for the book swap, as long as there is an anti-Ayn Rand bylaw.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 8:10 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by LittleMissCranky at 8:10 AM on February 20, 2004
My first time, so I'm doin' the music thing. Next time, I might be in for the Literature thang.
posted by tittergrrl at 8:40 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by tittergrrl at 8:40 AM on February 20, 2004
Ok, I'll set up a form and stuff for a MeFi book swap in a week or 2 on my space (which is changing)...stay tuned for a MeTa post about it. : >
posted by amberglow at 9:09 AM on February 20, 2004
posted by amberglow at 9:09 AM on February 20, 2004
Among others, I've been introduced to the Chameleons UK and the Decemberists (whom I ended up buying two CDs by) after Mefi swap.
Also, I'm a musician who currently has most of my money committed to releasing album which I would be flattered if people were to include on a mix tape.
posted by drezdn at 9:42 AM on February 20, 2004
Also, I'm a musician who currently has most of my money committed to releasing album which I would be flattered if people were to include on a mix tape.
posted by drezdn at 9:42 AM on February 20, 2004
konolia, ripping music to put on the iPod you've just bought in your highstreet is illegal under the copyright laws of the UK.
No, really; absolutely illegal.
Copyright is broken. Previously on Metafilter.
posted by Blue Stone at 11:45 AM on February 20, 2004
No, really; absolutely illegal.
Copyright is broken. Previously on Metafilter.
posted by Blue Stone at 11:45 AM on February 20, 2004
I'm in and I've been hoping to get some Zeppelin (not the overplayed stuff). It's been a long time since I listened to them.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 12:14 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 12:14 PM on February 20, 2004
I have every zeppelin album at 192k, want to swap MP3 Cds?
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:24 PM on February 20, 2004
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:24 PM on February 20, 2004
I think my question was misunderstood, but that's OK. I wasn't talking about swapping books, I was talking about swapping CDs full of books. You can fit many hundred books on a single CD. I've noticed people seem to be less forgiving of that form of 'piracy' than music copying and swapping and I was curious about feelings on that from this relatively literate community. Ah well - doesn't matter, really.
With regard to Zeppelin, there's a 17-album torrent available from the usual sources if you're so inclined.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:53 PM on February 20, 2004
With regard to Zeppelin, there's a 17-album torrent available from the usual sources if you're so inclined.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:53 PM on February 20, 2004
How about a MeFi W.A.S.T.E. ring?
posted by Blue Stone at 3:21 AM on February 21, 2004
posted by Blue Stone at 3:21 AM on February 21, 2004
Now that would be good.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:51 PM on February 21, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:51 PM on February 21, 2004
Encrypted peer-to-peer, written by Justin Fraenkel of Winamp, squelched by AOL who employs him, but opensourced and out in the wild now, feeding millions of bit-addicts.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:40 PM on February 21, 2004
What is WASTE?So now you know.
WASTE is a software product and protocol that enables secure distributed communication for small (on the order of 10-50 nodes) trusted groups of users.
WASTE is designed to enable small companies and small teams within larger companies to easily communicate and collaborate in a secure and efficient fashion, independent of physical network topology.
Some bits of information about WASTE:
WASTE is currently available for 32-bit Windows operating systems, and as a limited functionality server for FreeBSD and MacOS X. Porting to other operating systems should be a breeze, as the source is provided (and the network code itself is pretty portable).
WASTE is licensed under the GPL.
WASTE currently provides the following services:
Instant Messaging (with presence)
Group Chat
File browsing/searching
File transfer (upload and download)
Network architecture: WASTE uses a distributed architecture that allows for nodes to connect in a partial mesh type network. Nodes on the network can broadcast and route traffic. Nodes that are not publicly accessible or on slow links can choose not to route traffic. This network is built such that all services utilize the network, so firewall issues become moot. more information.
Security: WASTE uses link-level encryption to secure links, and public keys for authentication. RSA is used for session key exchange and authentication, and the links are encrypted using Blowfish in PCBC mode. The automatic key distribution security model is very primitive at the moment, and may not lend itself well to some social situations. more information.
Where can I get WASTE?
http://gominosensei.org/waste/
http://www.dhorrocks2003.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.html
Linux WASTE
http://www.juddnet.com/waste/
Who Made WASTE?
WASTE was created by Nullsoft, a subsidiary of AOL Time Warner* and makers of the popular mp3 player Winamp. WASTE was released as open source without AOL's blessing, and now has been pulled from Nullsoft's website. (for Nullsoft's legal pacification look here: http://www.nullsoft.com/free/waste/ )
The same thing happened with the Gnutella source, and look what happened there - it was developed in Kazaa, Morpheus and countless other P2P file-sharing applications and networks. It is expected that developers will do the same with WASTE, as the current release (1.0) is a beta containing the full source code.
*Nullsoft was purchased by AOL in June 1999
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:40 PM on February 21, 2004
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posted by amberglow at 2:17 PM on February 18, 2004