MeFi obesity thread call-out July 19, 2004 12:16 PM Subscribe
I'm not big on callouts. But this comment by the fire you left me pretty much sums up the problems MeFi has with fat-related posts.
Poo fights about weight are the Metafilter equivalent of a forest fire. Scary to watch, but everything is much cleaner for a while after it happens. Let the fire burn out naturally, but lets not let it spread onto the grey.
I won't comment on the actual comment in question because a lot of people would see a lot of irony in my commenting on someone else's tact today.
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:43 PM on July 19, 2004
I won't comment on the actual comment in question because a lot of people would see a lot of irony in my commenting on someone else's tact today.
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:43 PM on July 19, 2004
If they bother you, why participate, let alone make a fpp post about it? I mean, if you know you're going to get burned, why play with fire?
posted by crunchland at 12:47 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by crunchland at 12:47 PM on July 19, 2004
but if the pain caused by the fire could just be understood, then he could play with fire and suffer no consequence. this is a laudable goal.
posted by quonsar at 12:54 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by quonsar at 12:54 PM on July 19, 2004
I note that our left-vs-right arguments are a lot more vitriolic.
I also note that I could write "men don't turn me on" or "redheads leave me limp," but were I to write "fat people are a turn-off," I'd get my ass flamed. Hmmm.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:59 PM on July 19, 2004
I also note that I could write "men don't turn me on" or "redheads leave me limp," but were I to write "fat people are a turn-off," I'd get my ass flamed. Hmmm.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:59 PM on July 19, 2004
If there is anything wrong with that comment (and i'm not convinced there is) then the problem is also at large in our general culture, not just on MeFi. Some people are convinced that obesity is an ailment, either genetic or otherwise, and some consider it the result of behavior. Considering the variances in populations and individuals, it's likely neither of these is necessarily wrong or right in all cases, for all people. But let's not call #2 bigotry because we're sensitive about our weight, mmmkay?
posted by scarabic at 1:27 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by scarabic at 1:27 PM on July 19, 2004
pretty much sums up the problems MeFi has with fat-related posts.
Which is why you started another one. Brilliant logic.
posted by PrinceValium at 1:28 PM on July 19, 2004
Which is why you started another one. Brilliant logic.
posted by PrinceValium at 1:28 PM on July 19, 2004
Was this justified either? Problems abound on both sides of this argument.
posted by Raze2k at 1:35 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by Raze2k at 1:35 PM on July 19, 2004
Stan - the sad thing is that it took mere nanoseconds to get that reference.
Meanwhile, where did I leave my car keys?
posted by soyjoy at 1:35 PM on July 19, 2004
Meanwhile, where did I leave my car keys?
posted by soyjoy at 1:35 PM on July 19, 2004
But let's not call #2 bigotry because we're sensitive about our weight, mmmkay?
Uhm, no. It's bigotry, scarabic. It's out there. It's obvious.
If there is anything wrong with that comment (and i'm not convinced there is) then the problem is also at large in our general culture, not just on MeFi.
Shouldn't there be a better goal at MeFi than to just mimic society's ills?
five fresh fish: Indicating that fat people are a turn-off for you is a far cry from calling someone else gluttonous.
And, to the delightfully insulting duo of crunchland and PrinceValium, I started a new post in an attempt to foster discussion instead of spewing hatred. As did the first poster, apparently. You can keep your "brilliant" sarcasm at home.
posted by hijinx at 1:39 PM on July 19, 2004
Uhm, no. It's bigotry, scarabic. It's out there. It's obvious.
If there is anything wrong with that comment (and i'm not convinced there is) then the problem is also at large in our general culture, not just on MeFi.
Shouldn't there be a better goal at MeFi than to just mimic society's ills?
five fresh fish: Indicating that fat people are a turn-off for you is a far cry from calling someone else gluttonous.
And, to the delightfully insulting duo of crunchland and PrinceValium, I started a new post in an attempt to foster discussion instead of spewing hatred. As did the first poster, apparently. You can keep your "brilliant" sarcasm at home.
posted by hijinx at 1:39 PM on July 19, 2004
Meanwhile, where did I leave my car keys?
posted by soyjoy at 1:35 PM PST on July 19
posted by Seth at 1:41 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by soyjoy at 1:35 PM PST on July 19
posted by Seth at 1:41 PM on July 19, 2004
Whether or not it's bigotry to blame fat people for their weight, tfylm's comment - "your gluttony has confused you" - goes beyond that and essentially calls fat people stupid. Inasmuch as it makes sense at all - it really doesn't stand up to scrutiny. (And, no, I'm not sensitive about my weight, mmmkay? Skinny and sedentary here, which is probably why I don't automatically assume fat people who say they're active are lying.)
posted by transona5 at 1:44 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by transona5 at 1:44 PM on July 19, 2004
So, let me confirm:
calling someone gluttonous based on absolutely no knowledge of another person save that she is fat: okay;
telling someone to fuck off in bold, capital letters: not okay.
posted by hijinx at 1:51 PM on July 19, 2004
calling someone gluttonous based on absolutely no knowledge of another person save that she is fat: okay;
telling someone to fuck off in bold, capital letters: not okay.
posted by hijinx at 1:51 PM on July 19, 2004
This comment was far, far worse.
No, that was hilarious. I've seen overweight men throw tantrums before, so it's even funnier if you can only see it in your mind and you're free to embellish.
posted by Mayor Curley at 1:53 PM on July 19, 2004
No, that was hilarious. I've seen overweight men throw tantrums before, so it's even funnier if you can only see it in your mind and you're free to embellish.
posted by Mayor Curley at 1:53 PM on July 19, 2004
No, neither is 'okay,' but you've taken that second comment and reduced it to something far less wretched. The difference between yelling expletives and essentially praying that someone suffer (while going into detail about said wishes) should be apparent. They were both unjustified remarks and my linking to the second was an attempt to point out that fault can't be thrust onto one side or the other. Both parties have loud and, at times, obnoxious members.
posted by Raze2k at 1:58 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by Raze2k at 1:58 PM on July 19, 2004
Mayor Curley: Let the fire burn out naturally, but lets not let it spread onto the grey.
And yet...
I've seen overweight men throw tantrums before, so it's even funnier if you can only see it in your mind and you're free to embellish.
Thanks for upholding such a high standard to shoot for.
posted by hijinx at 1:58 PM on July 19, 2004
And yet...
I've seen overweight men throw tantrums before, so it's even funnier if you can only see it in your mind and you're free to embellish.
Thanks for upholding such a high standard to shoot for.
posted by hijinx at 1:58 PM on July 19, 2004
No, that was hilarious. I've seen overweight men throw tantrums before, so it's even funnier if you can only see it in your mind and you're free to embellish.
Oh shit. . . . (lol)
posted by Quartermass at 1:59 PM on July 19, 2004
Oh shit. . . . (lol)
posted by Quartermass at 1:59 PM on July 19, 2004
This is going to get alot worse before it gets any better, I can see.
posted by ChasFile at 1:59 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by ChasFile at 1:59 PM on July 19, 2004
I've seen overweight men throw tantrums before, so it's even funnier if you can only see it in your mind
may JollyWanker sit on you all.
posted by quonsar at 1:59 PM on July 19, 2004
may JollyWanker sit on you all.
posted by quonsar at 1:59 PM on July 19, 2004
I started a new post in an attempt to foster discussion instead of spewing hatred.
So let me get this straight... you know that conversations on Metafilter regarding overweight people inevitably turn ugly. You nevertheless post a thread about that very subject and expect it to turn out ok? And now you're upset because it didn't, and you're lashing out at anyone who points out your stupid folly?
Step away from the keyboard, sir.
posted by crunchland at 2:05 PM on July 19, 2004
So let me get this straight... you know that conversations on Metafilter regarding overweight people inevitably turn ugly. You nevertheless post a thread about that very subject and expect it to turn out ok? And now you're upset because it didn't, and you're lashing out at anyone who points out your stupid folly?
Step away from the keyboard, sir.
posted by crunchland at 2:05 PM on July 19, 2004
This is going to get alot worse before it gets any better, I can see.
What are you favorite things to call fat people? I'm kind of partial to "fat fuck".
posted by Witty at 2:11 PM on July 19, 2004
What are you favorite things to call fat people? I'm kind of partial to "fat fuck".
posted by Witty at 2:11 PM on July 19, 2004
Eh, I'm a (ahem) big girl. I can take it.
tfylm doesn't know me--and clearly, doesn't care to know me.
He doesn't know that I once lost a job--a desk job--because I worked with a woman who was so anorexically ideated that she couldn't bear the thought of working in the same office with a fat woman and therefore campaigned for two months to get me fired. So yeah, I'm a bit touchy when people assume things about me based on nothing more than my external appearance. I may be many things, but stupid ain't one of them.
I don't expect that everyone in the world find me attractive or sexy or whatever, but I do expect to be treated with basic respect and that is what's lacking from these threads. Even if you're not speaking directly about me, a fat woman, when you say things like "Fat people take up too much space" or "I look down on fat people who are buying soda" or, even, "Why can't fat people just lose weight already?" you're making a whole raft of assumptions about a group to which I belong based on nothing more than their external appearance and that's a painful thing to read--particularly from those folks who are generally tolerant, good humored, and intelligent.
How can I be part of a community which is revolted by my physical appearance? I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I cannot be part of such a community.
posted by eilatan at 2:12 PM on July 19, 2004
tfylm doesn't know me--and clearly, doesn't care to know me.
He doesn't know that I once lost a job--a desk job--because I worked with a woman who was so anorexically ideated that she couldn't bear the thought of working in the same office with a fat woman and therefore campaigned for two months to get me fired. So yeah, I'm a bit touchy when people assume things about me based on nothing more than my external appearance. I may be many things, but stupid ain't one of them.
I don't expect that everyone in the world find me attractive or sexy or whatever, but I do expect to be treated with basic respect and that is what's lacking from these threads. Even if you're not speaking directly about me, a fat woman, when you say things like "Fat people take up too much space" or "I look down on fat people who are buying soda" or, even, "Why can't fat people just lose weight already?" you're making a whole raft of assumptions about a group to which I belong based on nothing more than their external appearance and that's a painful thing to read--particularly from those folks who are generally tolerant, good humored, and intelligent.
How can I be part of a community which is revolted by my physical appearance? I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I cannot be part of such a community.
posted by eilatan at 2:12 PM on July 19, 2004
You nevertheless post a thread about that very subject and expect it to turn out ok?
I thought I'd give it a shot. You know why? Because I thought things might have changed. I thought, "Well, the existing thread is getting ugly. What about a new, separate thread on a different facet of fat - one involving another story - that I feel others should read?" I made certain that doing so would be in the best interest of the guidelines here. I felt the story was certainly interesting enough to be introduced to people outside of certain circles. The comments do prove otherwise.
And now you're upset because it didn't, and you're lashing out at anyone who points out your stupid folly?
No. I'm calling out people who are insulting others. There is a large difference. The thing that upsets me is that the comments are still up at all (frankly, ones from both sides that are pure insults.)
posted by hijinx at 2:13 PM on July 19, 2004
I thought I'd give it a shot. You know why? Because I thought things might have changed. I thought, "Well, the existing thread is getting ugly. What about a new, separate thread on a different facet of fat - one involving another story - that I feel others should read?" I made certain that doing so would be in the best interest of the guidelines here. I felt the story was certainly interesting enough to be introduced to people outside of certain circles. The comments do prove otherwise.
And now you're upset because it didn't, and you're lashing out at anyone who points out your stupid folly?
No. I'm calling out people who are insulting others. There is a large difference. The thing that upsets me is that the comments are still up at all (frankly, ones from both sides that are pure insults.)
posted by hijinx at 2:13 PM on July 19, 2004
Er, didn't mean to be quite so melodramatic there. Looked better on the preview than on the actual post. Gah. Hate it when that happens. Take it in the spirit in which it was intended, not the actual wording.
posted by eilatan at 2:16 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by eilatan at 2:16 PM on July 19, 2004
Your said it yourself. "Fat threads on MeFi are never, ever good. Ever." So you were setting yourself, and the rest of the community up to fail. So you could climb on your soapbox here. (For that matter, regardless of the subject, if you had a related story, why did it even need a thread of its own? So you could call attention to it, and stomp around here, indignant and long suffering. You're no better than a common troll.
posted by crunchland at 2:18 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by crunchland at 2:18 PM on July 19, 2004
hijinx: Thanks for upholding such a high standard to shoot for.
Look, I tried. And then I saw that the fire had spread. I then I remembered that I didn't want to haul a full can of Coleman fuel back to the campsite anyway and I had some marshmallows.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:19 PM on July 19, 2004
Look, I tried. And then I saw that the fire had spread. I then I remembered that I didn't want to haul a full can of Coleman fuel back to the campsite anyway and I had some marshmallows.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:19 PM on July 19, 2004
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I cannot be part of such a community.
Well, maybe "slowly but surely" coming to said conclusion. Afterall, you've been chillin' with these fat-hatin' bastards for three years now.
posted by Witty at 2:20 PM on July 19, 2004
Well, maybe "slowly but surely" coming to said conclusion. Afterall, you've been chillin' with these fat-hatin' bastards for three years now.
posted by Witty at 2:20 PM on July 19, 2004
You should never insult fat people on the Interweb, because, you know, that's where all the fat people hang out.
posted by reklaw at 2:22 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by reklaw at 2:22 PM on July 19, 2004
You're no better than a common troll.
Woo hoo!
Well, I do apologize for calling attention to a long-standing problem within the site. I guess we can go back to just ignoring the fat hatred until it comes up again, when someone else gets insulted, posts it in MeTa, and gets deemed a troll or is told to just go away again.
By the way, I certainly wasn't going to post a thread in MeTa until tfylm posted that initial comment. I take threads in MeTa seriously.
What I'm really hoping for is a clear statement from Matt on the issue. Can people be comfortable here with the knowledge that the fat hatred is rampant?
posted by hijinx at 2:24 PM on July 19, 2004
Woo hoo!
Well, I do apologize for calling attention to a long-standing problem within the site. I guess we can go back to just ignoring the fat hatred until it comes up again, when someone else gets insulted, posts it in MeTa, and gets deemed a troll or is told to just go away again.
By the way, I certainly wasn't going to post a thread in MeTa until tfylm posted that initial comment. I take threads in MeTa seriously.
What I'm really hoping for is a clear statement from Matt on the issue. Can people be comfortable here with the knowledge that the fat hatred is rampant?
posted by hijinx at 2:24 PM on July 19, 2004
And then I saw that the fire had spread.
"We didn't start the fire,
it was all those fat fucks
eating straight from twinkie trucks!
We didn't start the fire..."
posted by quonsar at 2:25 PM on July 19, 2004
"We didn't start the fire,
it was all those fat fucks
eating straight from twinkie trucks!
We didn't start the fire..."
posted by quonsar at 2:25 PM on July 19, 2004
The thing that upsets me is that the comments are still up at all (frankly, ones from both sides that are pure insults.)
So you are baiting the trolls, then complaining that mathowie isn't cleaning up after them? For this quote alone I'd have to agree with crunchland. You posted something not in order to add value to the community, but just to see what happens. That's irresponsible.
Can people be comfortable here with the knowledge that the fat hatred is rampant?
We knew that before today. There are literally a dozen prior threads on the subject, none of which have worked out well.
posted by PrinceValium at 2:26 PM on July 19, 2004
So you are baiting the trolls, then complaining that mathowie isn't cleaning up after them? For this quote alone I'd have to agree with crunchland. You posted something not in order to add value to the community, but just to see what happens. That's irresponsible.
Can people be comfortable here with the knowledge that the fat hatred is rampant?
We knew that before today. There are literally a dozen prior threads on the subject, none of which have worked out well.
posted by PrinceValium at 2:26 PM on July 19, 2004
At the "overweight men throwing tantrums" mention, I had to think of this guy:
For the record: I'm fat, and it's because I've been lazy and eaten too much, so I'm going to do something about it. I think it's possible to be overly mean when talking about fat people, and also that sometimes fat people get hypersensitive and defensive.
"You know, if you eat less and exercise more you might lose some weight and feel better."
"SHUT UP YOU FUCKING COCKSUCKER YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!@!@!@!"
posted by beth at 2:27 PM on July 19, 2004
For the record: I'm fat, and it's because I've been lazy and eaten too much, so I'm going to do something about it. I think it's possible to be overly mean when talking about fat people, and also that sometimes fat people get hypersensitive and defensive.
"You know, if you eat less and exercise more you might lose some weight and feel better."
"SHUT UP YOU FUCKING COCKSUCKER YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!@!@!@!"
posted by beth at 2:27 PM on July 19, 2004
If I was Matt I wouldn't touch this issue with a 10 foot pole.
posted by Stan Chin at 2:29 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by Stan Chin at 2:29 PM on July 19, 2004
By the way, I certainly wasn't going to post a thread in MeTa until tfylm posted that initial comment.
I'm not reading a whole lot of "hate" in his comment... but if you say so.
posted by Witty at 2:32 PM on July 19, 2004
I'm not reading a whole lot of "hate" in his comment... but if you say so.
posted by Witty at 2:32 PM on July 19, 2004
You posted something not in order to add value to the community, but just to see what happens.
Prince, since you (and crunchland) purport to know my thinking, I'd like to know what I'm going to do next. It'd be helpful.
I carefully considered the "What makes a good FPP?" guidelines before posting the Anamarie link. I stand by my decision to post it. I didn't post it to get a rise out of people; I posted it because I felt it was a unique thing on the web worthy of discussion. Go figure.
posted by hijinx at 2:35 PM on July 19, 2004
Prince, since you (and crunchland) purport to know my thinking, I'd like to know what I'm going to do next. It'd be helpful.
I carefully considered the "What makes a good FPP?" guidelines before posting the Anamarie link. I stand by my decision to post it. I didn't post it to get a rise out of people; I posted it because I felt it was a unique thing on the web worthy of discussion. Go figure.
posted by hijinx at 2:35 PM on July 19, 2004
I predict that you are going to step away from the computer and await Matt's verdict on the subject instead of being the hypersensitive asshole you've been up until now.
posted by crunchland at 2:40 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by crunchland at 2:40 PM on July 19, 2004
If I was Matt I wouldn't touch this issue with a 10 foot pole.
I'd print it out and bronze it for every time I needed cheering up.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:42 PM on July 19, 2004
I'd print it out and bronze it for every time I needed cheering up.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:42 PM on July 19, 2004
I think you're missing their point.
Nah, I think being branded both a "troll" and "hypersensitive asshole" makes the point pretty clearly.
posted by hijinx at 2:45 PM on July 19, 2004
Nah, I think being branded both a "troll" and "hypersensitive asshole" makes the point pretty clearly.
posted by hijinx at 2:45 PM on July 19, 2004
Well, maybe "slowly but surely" coming to said conclusion. Afterall, you've been chillin' with these fat-hatin' bastards for three years now.
What you don't see, Witty, is that I often take breaks from the site for periods of time ranging from a few weeks to six months. So I may have had a membership here for nearly three years, but that's not three years of regular checking in.
So neener. (Hey, if no one else has to be a mature adult, I don't have to be, either, right? Right? That's how it works, RIGHT?)
posted by eilatan at 2:47 PM on July 19, 2004
What you don't see, Witty, is that I often take breaks from the site for periods of time ranging from a few weeks to six months. So I may have had a membership here for nearly three years, but that's not three years of regular checking in.
So neener. (Hey, if no one else has to be a mature adult, I don't have to be, either, right? Right? That's how it works, RIGHT?)
posted by eilatan at 2:47 PM on July 19, 2004
I don't suppose the upset fat people have noticed how liberals, republicans, religionists, dog owners, and anti-/israelists are all treated in MetaFilter, eh?
Call someone a fucking Bush-loving baby-killer and everything is all cool.
Say that you believe in God, and some atheist will call you a stupid fuck, and the religionist will goddamn them to hell, and everything is all cool.
Call the 60% of obese Americans a bunch of fat fucks, and all the world falls apart.
Pray tell, why the particular sensitivity towards weight?
posted by five fresh fish at 2:56 PM on July 19, 2004
Call someone a fucking Bush-loving baby-killer and everything is all cool.
Say that you believe in God, and some atheist will call you a stupid fuck, and the religionist will goddamn them to hell, and everything is all cool.
Call the 60% of obese Americans a bunch of fat fucks, and all the world falls apart.
Pray tell, why the particular sensitivity towards weight?
posted by five fresh fish at 2:56 PM on July 19, 2004
because not all fat people are overweight by choice. or lack of choice.
also, the idea that it's only fat people that are upset by this high school bullying is ridiculous. are all people defending gay bashing homosexuals too?
posted by mr.marx at 3:02 PM on July 19, 2004
also, the idea that it's only fat people that are upset by this high school bullying is ridiculous. are all people defending gay bashing homosexuals too?
posted by mr.marx at 3:02 PM on July 19, 2004
"bronze makes my ass look fat."
No, fat makes your ass look fat. Bronze just makes it sort of shiny.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:02 PM on July 19, 2004
No, fat makes your ass look fat. Bronze just makes it sort of shiny.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:02 PM on July 19, 2004
For the record, I am not defending those who are making stupid comments and unfunny jokes about overweight people, nor have I participated in that. I merely point out that hijinx seems to have had an agenda when he posted his thread today, and I think that his outrage in this one is calculated and disingenuous. Nevertheless, I did myself no favors by resorting to petty namecalling, and for that I apologize.
posted by crunchland at 3:22 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by crunchland at 3:22 PM on July 19, 2004
Gay-bashing homosexuals? A self-hatred sort of thing there, no?
because not all fat people are overweight by choice. or lack of choice.
Ohhhh. So it must be the genetically-inclined sort of fat folk who inhabit MeFi. Because the ones that choose to be fat would, like the baby-killing Bush lover, be far less upset with the discussion.
Frankly, to me it just looks like fat people have thin skin.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:31 PM on July 19, 2004
because not all fat people are overweight by choice. or lack of choice.
Ohhhh. So it must be the genetically-inclined sort of fat folk who inhabit MeFi. Because the ones that choose to be fat would, like the baby-killing Bush lover, be far less upset with the discussion.
Frankly, to me it just looks like fat people have thin skin.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:31 PM on July 19, 2004
FFF, 60% of Americans aren't "obese".
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:38 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:38 PM on July 19, 2004
Maybe so, five fresh fish - perhaps because it has to stretch so much further?
posted by dg at 3:45 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by dg at 3:45 PM on July 19, 2004
1. The link should have been posted in the other thread. They're both "touching, sad, chilling" accounts of obesity in America. By your own title it's the exact same topic, yet you persist in claiming that they're not related. Uhhh, hello? Why would you start another thread?
2. Interesting factoid, the origin of which I can't remember for the life of me. It's popularly held that Canadians are in fact less obese than their southern neighbours. However, a recent study suggests that the phone polls they conducted were incorrect, as respondants typically lied about their weight. A more in-depth study revealed that Canadian obesity is as prevalent. I have no idea if this is true yet I told you all anyway!
posted by The God Complex at 3:53 PM on July 19, 2004
2. Interesting factoid, the origin of which I can't remember for the life of me. It's popularly held that Canadians are in fact less obese than their southern neighbours. However, a recent study suggests that the phone polls they conducted were incorrect, as respondants typically lied about their weight. A more in-depth study revealed that Canadian obesity is as prevalent. I have no idea if this is true yet I told you all anyway!
posted by The God Complex at 3:53 PM on July 19, 2004
fff: the day you write fluent Swedish I will welcome your petty language snarks. until then, kindly stfu.
posted by mr.marx at 3:53 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by mr.marx at 3:53 PM on July 19, 2004
No matter how few calories I eat or how many hours a day I exercise, I will be fat.
The Fire You Left Me: Have you considered that not everyone who says this is gluttonous?
posted by coelecanth at 3:59 PM on July 19, 2004
The Fire You Left Me: Have you considered that not everyone who says this is gluttonous?
posted by coelecanth at 3:59 PM on July 19, 2004
God Complex, the research suggesting that Canadians lied about their weight was cited in this article.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:01 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:01 PM on July 19, 2004
Crap post about a fat person with three triplets Has Three Triplets.
Cigars all round!
posted by DaRiLo at 4:02 PM on July 19, 2004
Cigars all round!
posted by DaRiLo at 4:02 PM on July 19, 2004
Hi, my name is mischief, and I'm a fat fuck.
I also thought tfylm's comment was funny.
Carry on.
;-P
posted by mischief at 4:04 PM on July 19, 2004
I also thought tfylm's comment was funny.
Carry on.
;-P
posted by mischief at 4:04 PM on July 19, 2004
I'm fat.
I also work out like a fiend.
Right now I am enjoying potato chips with this thread.
And there is nothing any of you can do about it. Ha!
posted by konolia at 4:30 PM on July 19, 2004
I also work out like a fiend.
Right now I am enjoying potato chips with this thread.
And there is nothing any of you can do about it. Ha!
posted by konolia at 4:30 PM on July 19, 2004
Is there a lofi for metatalk? Because I just got to the end of this ridiculous yet entertaining thread and planned to go on to the next one on the same subject only to see it's now gone.
You're all a bunch of fatheads, by the way.
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:31 PM on July 19, 2004
You're all a bunch of fatheads, by the way.
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:31 PM on July 19, 2004
I wish I could gain weight. I look like a frrrriggin holocaust survivor almost! I pig out all the timeand somehow end up lighter than before I started?
posted by mcsweetie at 4:36 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by mcsweetie at 4:36 PM on July 19, 2004
But let's not call #2 bigotry because we're sensitive about our weight, mmmkay?
Uhm, no. It's bigotry, scarabic. It's out there. It's obvious.
I'm afraid I stand uncorrected. I'm listening if you have an actual argument to make, but the letters O-B-V-I-O-U-S are, yet again, demonstrated to be lacking in any particular persuasive power.
I do apologize for calling attention to a long-standing problem within the site. I guess we can go back to just ignoring the fat hatred
TFYLM may have been insulting, but not to some egregious degree, not for this place, anyway. If you're in a group that you feel is insulted by a certain comment, argue with it. Stand up for yourself. Swat it down. But don't cast it as the doomcall for MetaFilter and run whining to Matt.
For all the times I've flown off the handle and argued against what I see as anti-Arab sentiment here, I've never once dragged it into MeTa. If this was the worst you could find, I think the Blue will survive. The only question is whether you'll show up to represent yourself or not.
posted by scarabic at 4:53 PM on July 19, 2004
Uhm, no. It's bigotry, scarabic. It's out there. It's obvious.
I'm afraid I stand uncorrected. I'm listening if you have an actual argument to make, but the letters O-B-V-I-O-U-S are, yet again, demonstrated to be lacking in any particular persuasive power.
I do apologize for calling attention to a long-standing problem within the site. I guess we can go back to just ignoring the fat hatred
TFYLM may have been insulting, but not to some egregious degree, not for this place, anyway. If you're in a group that you feel is insulted by a certain comment, argue with it. Stand up for yourself. Swat it down. But don't cast it as the doomcall for MetaFilter and run whining to Matt.
For all the times I've flown off the handle and argued against what I see as anti-Arab sentiment here, I've never once dragged it into MeTa. If this was the worst you could find, I think the Blue will survive. The only question is whether you'll show up to represent yourself or not.
posted by scarabic at 4:53 PM on July 19, 2004
fff: the day you write fluent Swedish I will welcome your petty language snarks. until then, kindly stfu.
Oh, gu get yuoorselff a sense-a ooff hoomuoor, yuoo seelly Svedeesh geet. Bork Bork Bork!
posted by five fresh fish at 5:25 PM on July 19, 2004
Oh, gu get yuoorselff a sense-a ooff hoomuoor, yuoo seelly Svedeesh geet. Bork Bork Bork!
posted by five fresh fish at 5:25 PM on July 19, 2004
Metatalk's had an apronectomy!
posted by dash_slot- at 5:27 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by dash_slot- at 5:27 PM on July 19, 2004
Say, before our patience all wears thin, I should ask: would it be small of me to complain about the hatred displayed toward skinny people?
There were some really vicious invectives coming from the upset fat people. Seems a little two-faced to me, hollering all about judgemental attitudes and unfair prejudice and that, and then turning around and being just as mean-spirited toward the welterweights.
Seems to me that some people want to both have their cake and eat it, too.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:31 PM on July 19, 2004
There were some really vicious invectives coming from the upset fat people. Seems a little two-faced to me, hollering all about judgemental attitudes and unfair prejudice and that, and then turning around and being just as mean-spirited toward the welterweights.
Seems to me that some people want to both have their cake and eat it, too.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:31 PM on July 19, 2004
Oh, gu get yuoorselff a sense-a ooff hoomuoor, yuoo seelly Svedeesh geet. Bork Bork Bork!
Man, can I watch you perform somewhere? I bet you're a hoot.
posted by mr.marx at 5:35 PM on July 19, 2004
Man, can I watch you perform somewhere? I bet you're a hoot.
posted by mr.marx at 5:35 PM on July 19, 2004
God Complex, the research suggesting that Canadians lied about their weight was cited in this article.
Good, I had a nagging fear that perhaps I made the whole thing up.
posted by The God Complex at 6:32 PM on July 19, 2004
Good, I had a nagging fear that perhaps I made the whole thing up.
posted by The God Complex at 6:32 PM on July 19, 2004
fff, I've noticed just as many skinny people who engage in unhealthy behavior to have their cake and eat it too as those who overeat to the detriment of their health, and to deny the existence of those types of people sort of tosses your argument that thin is more healthy out the window. While some skinny people are blessed with a metabolism that allows them to eat whatever they like and not gain any noticeable fat, I've seen far too many turn to dubious sources--speed, multiple liposuctions to dispose of *any* visible fat, other cosmetic "enhancments", exercising to the point of palpitation, fasting in an unhealthy fashion, "finger down the throat time"--to keep their figure fit'n'trim as to keep up with the Joneses. It's been contended in the thread that the "healthy" fat MeFites are not representative of the true fat people in this country.
I contend the reverse is equally true. The vicious invective can go both ways.
Well, that depends. Is the cake chocolate?
Mmmmm, with raspberry filling and an inch of buttercream frosting on top.
posted by WolfDaddy at 6:41 PM on July 19, 2004
I contend the reverse is equally true. The vicious invective can go both ways.
Well, that depends. Is the cake chocolate?
Mmmmm, with raspberry filling and an inch of buttercream frosting on top.
posted by WolfDaddy at 6:41 PM on July 19, 2004
If you could have a body like the video hotties in 20 minutes, would you do it? If you answered yes, may I suggest the Dimepiece Workout? It's not just fitness; it's hip hop fitness.
posted by samuelad at 6:42 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by samuelad at 6:42 PM on July 19, 2004
Speed as a means of losing weight? Riiiiight.
I notice that in the fat thread, the first person to really get nasty was biscotti, who took fire's unspoken urge as a great personal affront and chucked some abusive language his direction.
But the first bigtime verbal abuse came from eilatan, who just went right off the deep end. This was a long way into a thread that had been pretty calm, with no one really getting outrageously rude.
There's a world of difference between a person admitting they have private thoughts that are nasty, and actually being nasty.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:18 PM on July 19, 2004
I notice that in the fat thread, the first person to really get nasty was biscotti, who took fire's unspoken urge as a great personal affront and chucked some abusive language his direction.
But the first bigtime verbal abuse came from eilatan, who just went right off the deep end. This was a long way into a thread that had been pretty calm, with no one really getting outrageously rude.
There's a world of difference between a person admitting they have private thoughts that are nasty, and actually being nasty.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:18 PM on July 19, 2004
"Maureen, I've got to get fatter!" George Kilby, circa 1981. Of course, look at him now, a skinny dude, and he can jam better than ever. Hope springs eternal. Buy his music.
posted by caddis at 7:26 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by caddis at 7:26 PM on July 19, 2004
Variations on a them: "Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone obese, which is often, to walk to them and say, "Why don't you lose some fucking weight?"
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone protesting abortion, which is often to walk to them and say, "Your mother should have aborted you, Stalin!"
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone killing livestock, which is often to walk to them and say, "Why don't you just shoot yourself, meateater!"
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone tailgating me, which is often to stomp on the brakes, causing them to drive off the road."
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone taking the eucharist, which is often to walk to them and say, "Mmmmm! How's that cannabilistic death cult thing working out for you!"
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone post a MetaWhinge, which is often to walk to them and lay them a smack upside the head for being such a diamond-churning tightass."
None of those variations is worthy of a MeTa callout, much less a hostile thread.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:27 PM on July 19, 2004
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone protesting abortion, which is often to walk to them and say, "Your mother should have aborted you, Stalin!"
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone killing livestock, which is often to walk to them and say, "Why don't you just shoot yourself, meateater!"
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone tailgating me, which is often to stomp on the brakes, causing them to drive off the road."
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone taking the eucharist, which is often to walk to them and say, "Mmmmm! How's that cannabilistic death cult thing working out for you!"
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone post a MetaWhinge, which is often to walk to them and lay them a smack upside the head for being such a diamond-churning tightass."
None of those variations is worthy of a MeTa callout, much less a hostile thread.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:27 PM on July 19, 2004
"Yes, you heard me right! I lost 155 pounds in less than three weeks! How did I lose all that gross fat? By combining the miracles of modern technology with the secrets of ordinary street junkies, producing this! Jimmy Tango's Fatbusters!" (ride the snake)
posted by keswick at 7:31 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by keswick at 7:31 PM on July 19, 2004
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone [adjective], which is often, to walk to them and say, "[crude comment]".
Mad Libs all around!
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:32 PM on July 19, 2004
Mad Libs all around!
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:32 PM on July 19, 2004
I'm hoping you're joking about the speed, as in meth, and weight loss thing, fff. If not, come with me to East Texas. I show you whole TOWNS full of gorgeously (or not) skinny people whose diet consists of all those nasty junk foods ... and lots of bathtub crank.
keswick, do you sleep in your oven? Cry when you see a tree?
posted by WolfDaddy at 7:33 PM on July 19, 2004
keswick, do you sleep in your oven? Cry when you see a tree?
posted by WolfDaddy at 7:33 PM on July 19, 2004
Somtimes it is better to be overweight, than the alternative.
posted by caddis at 7:46 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by caddis at 7:46 PM on July 19, 2004
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see someone killing livestock, which is often to walk to them and say, "Why don't you just shoot yourself, meateater!"
I know, it sounds like a clever thing to say in that situation, but when I tried it, fucker came after me with a gun.
posted by soyjoy at 7:59 PM on July 19, 2004
I know, it sounds like a clever thing to say in that situation, but when I tried it, fucker came after me with a gun.
posted by soyjoy at 7:59 PM on July 19, 2004
Somtimes it is better to be overweight, than the alternative.
We can also all agree it's also better to be overweight than to be hitler:
posted by The God Complex at 8:00 PM on July 19, 2004
We can also all agree it's also better to be overweight than to be hitler:
posted by The God Complex at 8:00 PM on July 19, 2004
I think I would rather be obese, or anorexic, or a Scientologist.
posted by caddis at 8:05 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by caddis at 8:05 PM on July 19, 2004
I used to think that fat people exhibited a moral failing. Then I read, you know, science articles and stuff. Turns out, lots of fat people eat less and exercise more than lots of skinny people! Amazing. You can find out about obscure studies like this in things called a "newspaper".
And, of course, some fat people are exhibiting a moral failing. I don't doubt that many people here agree with Leon Kass that intuitive disgust is a reliable indicator of immorality. This is why, surely, they're equally condemnatory of homosexuality as obesity—both inspire disgust in the majority. FFF left off his list: "Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see a fag, which is often to walk to them and lay them a smack upside the head for being such a pervert."
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:31 PM on July 19, 2004
And, of course, some fat people are exhibiting a moral failing. I don't doubt that many people here agree with Leon Kass that intuitive disgust is a reliable indicator of immorality. This is why, surely, they're equally condemnatory of homosexuality as obesity—both inspire disgust in the majority. FFF left off his list: "Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see a fag, which is often to walk to them and lay them a smack upside the head for being such a pervert."
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:31 PM on July 19, 2004
A moral failing? How is being fat a moral failing?
Sure, add the fag-pervert one to the list, EB. Basically the same as all the other ones. Do you think your variation warrants a MeTa callout? Do you think it warrants "fucker fuckers go fucking die" hostility?
posted by five fresh fish at 8:39 PM on July 19, 2004
Sure, add the fag-pervert one to the list, EB. Basically the same as all the other ones. Do you think your variation warrants a MeTa callout? Do you think it warrants "fucker fuckers go fucking die" hostility?
posted by five fresh fish at 8:39 PM on July 19, 2004
i love my dead fat son!
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 8:39 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 8:39 PM on July 19, 2004
"Yet this does not seem to soften the sharp urge I feel every time I see a fag, which is often to walk to them and lay them a smack upside the head for being such a pervert."
*amberglow hears his cue and steps in*
I've been thinking about this all day, and i think i can never be called oversensitive or overreacting to the antigay shit that crops up here, considering the reactions to the stupidity in that thread. People took it really really personally when it wasn't, and wasn't meant to be. And if we can't discuss societal and health implications and all the other stuff that goes along with the epidemic of obesity here, then we're in trouble. But that said...
i'm with the fatties (as long as they don't need to be forklifted out of bed to be on Jerry Springer, so i'm only with them up to a point i guess). : >
posted by amberglow at 8:40 PM on July 19, 2004
*amberglow hears his cue and steps in*
I've been thinking about this all day, and i think i can never be called oversensitive or overreacting to the antigay shit that crops up here, considering the reactions to the stupidity in that thread. People took it really really personally when it wasn't, and wasn't meant to be. And if we can't discuss societal and health implications and all the other stuff that goes along with the epidemic of obesity here, then we're in trouble. But that said...
i'm with the fatties (as long as they don't need to be forklifted out of bed to be on Jerry Springer, so i'm only with them up to a point i guess). : >
posted by amberglow at 8:40 PM on July 19, 2004
In between all the bitching this is one of the funniest threads I have ever read on MeFi. I had to go into a stall to laugh so I wouldn't disturb my coworkers. Nice work, y'all
posted by ChasFile at 9:05 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by ChasFile at 9:05 PM on July 19, 2004
When I'm emperor, I'll put all the Sumo wrestlers on a diet - and make them eat low fat tofu, sprouts, and organic brown rice.
posted by troutfishing at 9:13 PM on July 19, 2004
WolfDaddy: No, but I did make out with Scott Baio at a party once.
Scan me!
posted by keswick at 9:22 PM on July 19, 2004
Scan me!
posted by keswick at 9:22 PM on July 19, 2004
That kid looks like the stay-puff marshmallow man.
posted by The God Complex at 9:24 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by The God Complex at 9:24 PM on July 19, 2004
Great. One more thing not to think about when fighting Xul.
posted by weston at 9:30 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by weston at 9:30 PM on July 19, 2004
I was gonna say he looked like the Michelin Man.
Only puffier.
posted by dhoyt at 9:40 PM on July 19, 2004
Only puffier.
posted by dhoyt at 9:40 PM on July 19, 2004
"Bibendum" sounds creepy, doesn't it? Like a demon from one of the inner circles -- not Old Nick, but Old Bib. He's over 100 years old, too. No wonder Cayce was afraid of him.
posted by Shane at 10:06 PM on July 19, 2004
posted by Shane at 10:06 PM on July 19, 2004
Nevermind the hatefulness in this thread, that could happen in any thread (as mentioned above).
But the sheer level of ignorance (and I choose that word on purpose) displayed in this thread is flabbergasting.
Some people are naturally thin, despite eating a "normal" diet. Some people are naturally heavy, despite eating a "normal" diet. Lots of people are in-between. Two people can process 2000 calories per day in stunningly different ways.
It's like some of the posters in this thread have never had any friends, relatives, acquaintances, or contact with a single other biological being besides themselves. They've also apparently never had the benefit of a single minute of nutritional education.
Not all skinny people force themselves to vomit. Not all fat people eat a box of ho-ho's when you're not looking.
There are mountains of research on weight, nutrition, caloric intake, and food composition. There is an entire branch of medicine devoted to nutrition. The issues are a little more complicated than "eat less, fatty" or "have a sandwich, stick-boy".
There is a literal money fountain ready to spew astronomical profits to the drug company that finds an "easy" solution to obesity. The incentive to find a solution is breathtaking, yet no "easy" solution has been found.
Given these enormous economic incentives and continued failure, people should be able to recognize the problem defies simple pontification.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:45 PM on July 19, 2004
But the sheer level of ignorance (and I choose that word on purpose) displayed in this thread is flabbergasting.
Some people are naturally thin, despite eating a "normal" diet. Some people are naturally heavy, despite eating a "normal" diet. Lots of people are in-between. Two people can process 2000 calories per day in stunningly different ways.
It's like some of the posters in this thread have never had any friends, relatives, acquaintances, or contact with a single other biological being besides themselves. They've also apparently never had the benefit of a single minute of nutritional education.
Not all skinny people force themselves to vomit. Not all fat people eat a box of ho-ho's when you're not looking.
There are mountains of research on weight, nutrition, caloric intake, and food composition. There is an entire branch of medicine devoted to nutrition. The issues are a little more complicated than "eat less, fatty" or "have a sandwich, stick-boy".
There is a literal money fountain ready to spew astronomical profits to the drug company that finds an "easy" solution to obesity. The incentive to find a solution is breathtaking, yet no "easy" solution has been found.
Given these enormous economic incentives and continued failure, people should be able to recognize the problem defies simple pontification.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:45 PM on July 19, 2004
people should be able to recognize the problem defies simple pontification.
LOL. What community blog are you posting to, because nobody here recognizes that!
posted by ChasFile at 10:55 PM on July 19, 2004
LOL. What community blog are you posting to, because nobody here recognizes that!
posted by ChasFile at 10:55 PM on July 19, 2004
It's like some of the posters in this thread have never had any friends, relatives, acquaintances, or contact with a single other biological being besides themselves.
this wouldn't surprise me in the least.
posted by t r a c y at 11:18 PM on July 19, 2004
this wouldn't surprise me in the least.
posted by t r a c y at 11:18 PM on July 19, 2004
Speed as a means of losing weight? Riiiiight.
Karl H. Marx on a popsicle stick. Stimulants, including real no-kidding amphetamines, have long been used as diet aids. They're appetite suppressants and energy boosters.
I notice that in the fat thread, the first person to really get nasty was biscotti, who took fire's unspoken urge as a great personal affront and chucked some abusive language his direction.
But it wasn't an unspoken urge, was it? Fire came right out and said it, so it was very much spoken, in a setting where only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots wouldn't recognize that the objects of his derision were out there reading his diatribe.
There's a world of difference between a person admitting they have private thoughts that are nasty, and actually being nasty.
Maybe. But coming out and detailing your nasty private thoughts to the object of your derision is itself being nasty, albeit under a guise of nominal politeness. Talking about how much you want to go up to fat people and tell them to lose some fucking weight, in a setting where fat people are not uncommon, is itself telling fat people to lose some fucking weight.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:44 PM on July 19, 2004
Karl H. Marx on a popsicle stick. Stimulants, including real no-kidding amphetamines, have long been used as diet aids. They're appetite suppressants and energy boosters.
I notice that in the fat thread, the first person to really get nasty was biscotti, who took fire's unspoken urge as a great personal affront and chucked some abusive language his direction.
But it wasn't an unspoken urge, was it? Fire came right out and said it, so it was very much spoken, in a setting where only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots wouldn't recognize that the objects of his derision were out there reading his diatribe.
There's a world of difference between a person admitting they have private thoughts that are nasty, and actually being nasty.
Maybe. But coming out and detailing your nasty private thoughts to the object of your derision is itself being nasty, albeit under a guise of nominal politeness. Talking about how much you want to go up to fat people and tell them to lose some fucking weight, in a setting where fat people are not uncommon, is itself telling fat people to lose some fucking weight.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:44 PM on July 19, 2004
It's like some of the posters in this thread have never had any friends, relatives, acquaintances, or contact with a single other biological being besides themselves.
Next thing I know, you're going to tell me posters don't read the actual article in posts.
posted by jmd82 at 11:55 PM on July 19, 2004
Next thing I know, you're going to tell me posters don't read the actual article in posts.
posted by jmd82 at 11:55 PM on July 19, 2004
On another note, I find it slightly ironic that throughout my life, people can and do say whatever they want about my skinny ass and am expected to take it like a man (120 lbs @ 5'10.5"). However, the instant I even infer that someone has some excess weight or is fat (which is comparable to my being skinny), I'm branded as the Second Coming of Hitler (does that technically invoke Godwin's Law? If so, i'm branded as Satan Incarnante).
posted by jmd82 at 12:03 AM on July 20, 2004
posted by jmd82 at 12:03 AM on July 20, 2004
Amazing to see the turnout on a fatness thread. You'd think it were really something important.
I've learned the MeFi Demographic gradually, over time, and each step of the process required me to make a little personal adjustment.
First, I learned we were all white. That wasn't terribly surprising, though I was still apallled at the low number of non-white folk who were willing to speak up.
Then I learned we were all liberal. Again, not a big surprise, and, of course, there are many notable exceptions to this rule.
Then I learned that our liberalism was secondary to our whiteness, which was kind of a surpise. Left-wing concern combined with NIMBY-ism, if you will, seemed to be the norm. People cared, as long as there were no consequences to them.
Then I learned that most of us drink a lot, which explained even more.
Then I figured out that most of us were over 30, with great numbers of us over 35 and 40, too.
Then I learned that we ( at least the most vocal and passionate bunch of us) all had children, which accounted for the paranoid streak in the so-called "liberalism" we generally call the norm.
Then, and only then, did I also learn that most of us are also fat. I can't say it was really that much of a surprise, given the white, computer-geek, 30-ish, mom'n'dad, paranoid image that had already emerged for me.
I kinda get compassion fatigue at this point. It's one thing to be white, drunk, affluent, a parent, thirty-somethng and proud of it... But fat, too, and proud of that... I guess I still have new realities to learn to respect.
[working on it]
posted by scarabic at 1:03 AM on July 20, 2004
I've learned the MeFi Demographic gradually, over time, and each step of the process required me to make a little personal adjustment.
First, I learned we were all white. That wasn't terribly surprising, though I was still apallled at the low number of non-white folk who were willing to speak up.
Then I learned we were all liberal. Again, not a big surprise, and, of course, there are many notable exceptions to this rule.
Then I learned that our liberalism was secondary to our whiteness, which was kind of a surpise. Left-wing concern combined with NIMBY-ism, if you will, seemed to be the norm. People cared, as long as there were no consequences to them.
Then I learned that most of us drink a lot, which explained even more.
Then I figured out that most of us were over 30, with great numbers of us over 35 and 40, too.
Then I learned that we ( at least the most vocal and passionate bunch of us) all had children, which accounted for the paranoid streak in the so-called "liberalism" we generally call the norm.
Then, and only then, did I also learn that most of us are also fat. I can't say it was really that much of a surprise, given the white, computer-geek, 30-ish, mom'n'dad, paranoid image that had already emerged for me.
I kinda get compassion fatigue at this point. It's one thing to be white, drunk, affluent, a parent, thirty-somethng and proud of it... But fat, too, and proud of that... I guess I still have new realities to learn to respect.
[working on it]
posted by scarabic at 1:03 AM on July 20, 2004
But, jmd, we skinny-ass mofos are expected to deal with the comments we get by gulping down a doughnut and laughing maniacally as we run the Wal-Mart Fat Slalom. It's kind of like when the double amputee calls an insult at you and you yell back, 'Well at least I can fucking WALK, you incapacitated stooge!' You see, we gain strength by mocking the infinite pain of others. I take comfort knowing that I could, if trapped on a desert island, out-run, and then eat, 60% of Americans.
[/assholery]
I tend to believe that the problem is mostly dietary, but probably due mostly to long-term systemic damage. The real enemies definitely are the corporate fucks pushing the shit food; fighting amongst ourselves is a great way to shift the blame from a bunch of people we can't assault more directly. Now if all the afflicted could get up and start hurling bricks at the local McD's, we might be on some kind of track to recovery...
[/loogie-hocking at the grave of the Krocs]
posted by kaibutsu at 1:37 AM on July 20, 2004
[/assholery]
I tend to believe that the problem is mostly dietary, but probably due mostly to long-term systemic damage. The real enemies definitely are the corporate fucks pushing the shit food; fighting amongst ourselves is a great way to shift the blame from a bunch of people we can't assault more directly. Now if all the afflicted could get up and start hurling bricks at the local McD's, we might be on some kind of track to recovery...
[/loogie-hocking at the grave of the Krocs]
posted by kaibutsu at 1:37 AM on July 20, 2004
Now if all the afflicted could get up and start hurling bricks at the local McD's
That's a great idea to get some exercise!
posted by sebas at 1:40 AM on July 20, 2004
That's a great idea to get some exercise!
posted by sebas at 1:40 AM on July 20, 2004
I kinda get compassion fatigue at this point.
Your compassion is every bit as thin as your perfect body type, scarabic, and therefore must be a beautiful thing.
posted by taz at 1:47 AM on July 20, 2004
Your compassion is every bit as thin as your perfect body type, scarabic, and therefore must be a beautiful thing.
posted by taz at 1:47 AM on July 20, 2004
I'm a little overweight now, but that's mostly because I'm forty and inactive because of my disability. For most of my life, I've been a skinny fuck. As I wrote earlier, I'm defending fat people not because I'm fat, but because the invective against them is unfair.
When I said that, sometimes, being fat can be a "moral failing", I meant when it isn't a malfunctioning metabolism and does accurately reflect gluttony. To some degree, independent of judeo-christian tradition, I think that gluttony is a vice in the sense than any other hedonistic excess, to the detriment of self and others, is a vice. Even so, my whole point was that if it's a vice, it's certainly not a vice of such seriousness as to warrant the raw hatefullness displayed by many people. Leon Kass is wrong: intuitive disgust is not a reliable moral barometer. In the case of sexual orientation, it's completely unreliable, I think, and that was my point.
Regardless, however, obesity does not necessarily represent in every individual case gluttony and laziness. A lot of the hateful people act as if it does, and they're just plain ignorant. Willfully ignorant, even. Which, by the way, in my opinion, is a worse vice than gluttony.
And, yes, I definitely think fff's schema applied to gayness would warrant a callout. Some of his examples warrant a call-out.
It's true that we tolerate a lot of meanness on MeFi directed against groups that are not well represented here, while, in contrast, heavily represetned groups are treated with much more sensitivity and respect. I've compained about that in the past, and I'll continue to complain about it. But the litmus test is really very simple: if you are saying something knowing that it will likely hurt someone's feelings because you want to hurt someone's feelings, then you're likely on the wrong side of the line. Sometimes it's justified in some sense, yes. But being sure of one's justification cannot be sufficient because most everyone is almost always sure of their justification in being hurtful when they're being hurtful or inconsiderate. When their feelings are hurt, it's the other person's fault. When they hurt someone else's feelings...it's the other person's fault.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:57 AM on July 20, 2004
When I said that, sometimes, being fat can be a "moral failing", I meant when it isn't a malfunctioning metabolism and does accurately reflect gluttony. To some degree, independent of judeo-christian tradition, I think that gluttony is a vice in the sense than any other hedonistic excess, to the detriment of self and others, is a vice. Even so, my whole point was that if it's a vice, it's certainly not a vice of such seriousness as to warrant the raw hatefullness displayed by many people. Leon Kass is wrong: intuitive disgust is not a reliable moral barometer. In the case of sexual orientation, it's completely unreliable, I think, and that was my point.
Regardless, however, obesity does not necessarily represent in every individual case gluttony and laziness. A lot of the hateful people act as if it does, and they're just plain ignorant. Willfully ignorant, even. Which, by the way, in my opinion, is a worse vice than gluttony.
And, yes, I definitely think fff's schema applied to gayness would warrant a callout. Some of his examples warrant a call-out.
It's true that we tolerate a lot of meanness on MeFi directed against groups that are not well represented here, while, in contrast, heavily represetned groups are treated with much more sensitivity and respect. I've compained about that in the past, and I'll continue to complain about it. But the litmus test is really very simple: if you are saying something knowing that it will likely hurt someone's feelings because you want to hurt someone's feelings, then you're likely on the wrong side of the line. Sometimes it's justified in some sense, yes. But being sure of one's justification cannot be sufficient because most everyone is almost always sure of their justification in being hurtful when they're being hurtful or inconsiderate. When their feelings are hurt, it's the other person's fault. When they hurt someone else's feelings...it's the other person's fault.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:57 AM on July 20, 2004
I'm sure you meant that to sound humorous and clever, scarabic, but it came off as a mean-spirited and snarky, which generally isn't your style, so I was a bit surprised. For my part, I didn't see any such thing on that thread. I didn't do this scientifically, but it felt like 60% of the thread participants read the article, and while they intellectually know that obesity is in the overwhelming majority of cases (and some of these folks may be obese, but not will to say so), a self-inflicted condition, they stated that this is no reason not to have empathy for one's fellow human beings, whatever their size and shape. About 30% were of the, yes I'm overweight so I know what it's like disposition. The last 10% were resigned to being antagonistic of overweight people. Of the 30%, about a third of them interpretted the remarks of the generally antagonistic as personal attacks on them and their weight.
What's generally tiresome is what's been said above. Someone says, "It sucks to get on the bus with no place to sit, and a fat person is taking up two seats." Then, predictably, the reply is "Fuck you, you fucking fat people hating fuck. You don't know what it's like to be me." And the follow-up is, "why don't you get to the gym, you fat fuck." And it escalates from there. So, in other words, it's just like any other MeFi discussion about politics, homosexuality, sexism, affirmative action, terrorism, etc. The 20% engage in this pissing contest (which invariably spawns another 100+ post discussion in MetaTalk) and then the rest of us move onto a more interesting topic, or just get back to work.
posted by psmealey at 5:47 AM on July 20, 2004
What's generally tiresome is what's been said above. Someone says, "It sucks to get on the bus with no place to sit, and a fat person is taking up two seats." Then, predictably, the reply is "Fuck you, you fucking fat people hating fuck. You don't know what it's like to be me." And the follow-up is, "why don't you get to the gym, you fat fuck." And it escalates from there. So, in other words, it's just like any other MeFi discussion about politics, homosexuality, sexism, affirmative action, terrorism, etc. The 20% engage in this pissing contest (which invariably spawns another 100+ post discussion in MetaTalk) and then the rest of us move onto a more interesting topic, or just get back to work.
posted by psmealey at 5:47 AM on July 20, 2004
Anything?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:14 AM on July 20, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:14 AM on July 20, 2004
the invective against them is unfairOne thing about us fat people, the jokes just bounce right off. ;-P
Why do thin people think we fat people need defending? I find that attitude more condescending than the invective-hurlers.
posted by mischief at 7:22 AM on July 20, 2004
If I speak out against something I think is wrong, I'm doing so because I think it's wrong, not because I believe that the target of the wrong is in "need" my defense.
The other way of thinking about things is sorta weird, isn't it? It implies that as long as someone is able to defend themselves against a wrong, no one else should decry or attempt to do anything about the wrong no matter how abhorent it is. Which seems to me to be an impoverished morality.
Or, in other words, it's not all about the victim (or you).
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:00 AM on July 20, 2004
The other way of thinking about things is sorta weird, isn't it? It implies that as long as someone is able to defend themselves against a wrong, no one else should decry or attempt to do anything about the wrong no matter how abhorent it is. Which seems to me to be an impoverished morality.
Or, in other words, it's not all about the victim (or you).
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:00 AM on July 20, 2004
"Stimulants, including real no-kidding amphetamines, have long been used as diet aids. They're appetite suppressants and energy boosters." (ROU_Xenophobe) - Indeed. I used to work in an old factory building which had an amphetamine manufacturing business on the second floor. A cavernous place. It made speed for US troops during WW2 and then sold the stuff as "Diet Aids" afterwards until amphetamines were reclassified as controlled substances.
The story was that, when the Feds came for the business owner's stash, they had to take him away in a straightjacket.
"Some people are naturally thin, despite eating a "normal" diet. Some people are naturally heavy, despite eating a "normal" diet. Lots of people are in-between. Two people can process 2000 calories per day in stunningly different ways." (Ynoxas) - Yes, indeed - and there are compelling evolutionary reasons for the variance in human metabolic styles and the weight distribution curve.
But obesity on the scale now being seen in the US is distorting that distribution curve almost beyond belief.
posted by troutfishing at 9:02 AM on July 20, 2004
The story was that, when the Feds came for the business owner's stash, they had to take him away in a straightjacket.
"Some people are naturally thin, despite eating a "normal" diet. Some people are naturally heavy, despite eating a "normal" diet. Lots of people are in-between. Two people can process 2000 calories per day in stunningly different ways." (Ynoxas) - Yes, indeed - and there are compelling evolutionary reasons for the variance in human metabolic styles and the weight distribution curve.
But obesity on the scale now being seen in the US is distorting that distribution curve almost beyond belief.
posted by troutfishing at 9:02 AM on July 20, 2004
After the boom came down on the "Speed Diet Aid" business, the junior owners stepped up to the plate and came up with cellulose pills that would just expand in your stomach, indigestible, and take up space.
I used to have a bottle or two of these cellulose pills kicking around - as curiousities. It was, really, a much smarter, low tech equivalent of gastric-bypass surgery and I don't think there was a major down-side - unless, of course, cellulose-digesting bacteria were to somehow take up residence.
But if the symbiosis held, then humans could just graze on their lawns for food.
posted by troutfishing at 9:08 AM on July 20, 2004
I used to have a bottle or two of these cellulose pills kicking around - as curiousities. It was, really, a much smarter, low tech equivalent of gastric-bypass surgery and I don't think there was a major down-side - unless, of course, cellulose-digesting bacteria were to somehow take up residence.
But if the symbiosis held, then humans could just graze on their lawns for food.
posted by troutfishing at 9:08 AM on July 20, 2004
I'm afraid your gluttony has confused you.
-- the fire you left me
I'm not big on callouts. But this comment by the fire you left me pretty much sums up the problems MeFi has with fat-related posts.
--hijinx
You're no better than a common troll.
--crunchland.
I'm totally confused. I've read hijinx's post over-and-over, and I don't get how it's an example of trolling. One can read motives into anything, but all I see is that the fire you left me said something offensive and hijinx brought our attention to it.
I'm also among the group (minority? majority?) of people who hate rudeness. I think rudeness on MeFi effects the site as badly as a bug in the programming. I think it's a HUGE problem, and I wish there was something we could do about it. Probably there isn't, but it's possible that there is. If so, how can we even begin to solve the probelm unless people like hijinx bring it up?
I know that each time I've brought it up, people have also accused me of having some kind of secret agenda. But I didn't, and I was baffled by their accusation. All I can think is that some people enjoy the meanness so much (or it doesn't bother them) that they can't understand how it can bother others. When someone claims to be bothered by meanness or rudeness, the people who aren't bothered by it assume the claim is false.
Or is there some back story behind all this that I don't know about? Has hijinx caused some kind of trouble in the past?
In any case, I read the fire's comment too, and I was offended by it. And I would like comments like that to stop. And I don't have any other agenda. I just want them to stop.
posted by grumblebee at 9:13 AM on July 20, 2004
-- the fire you left me
I'm not big on callouts. But this comment by the fire you left me pretty much sums up the problems MeFi has with fat-related posts.
--hijinx
You're no better than a common troll.
--crunchland.
I'm totally confused. I've read hijinx's post over-and-over, and I don't get how it's an example of trolling. One can read motives into anything, but all I see is that the fire you left me said something offensive and hijinx brought our attention to it.
I'm also among the group (minority? majority?) of people who hate rudeness. I think rudeness on MeFi effects the site as badly as a bug in the programming. I think it's a HUGE problem, and I wish there was something we could do about it. Probably there isn't, but it's possible that there is. If so, how can we even begin to solve the probelm unless people like hijinx bring it up?
I know that each time I've brought it up, people have also accused me of having some kind of secret agenda. But I didn't, and I was baffled by their accusation. All I can think is that some people enjoy the meanness so much (or it doesn't bother them) that they can't understand how it can bother others. When someone claims to be bothered by meanness or rudeness, the people who aren't bothered by it assume the claim is false.
Or is there some back story behind all this that I don't know about? Has hijinx caused some kind of trouble in the past?
In any case, I read the fire's comment too, and I was offended by it. And I would like comments like that to stop. And I don't have any other agenda. I just want them to stop.
posted by grumblebee at 9:13 AM on July 20, 2004
k, "speed diet" sounded a lot like going down to the seediest parts of town to score some pretty pills for a strung-out fight-the-cops killing spree. Please forgive my innocence.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:35 AM on July 20, 2004
posted by five fresh fish at 9:35 AM on July 20, 2004
the first person to really get nasty was biscotti, who took fire's unspoken urge as a great personal affront and chucked some abusive language his direction.
As has been pointed out, it wasn't really unspoken at all, and I don't see how what I said was abusive (or even really nasty), I took fire's unpleasant comment and rephrased it. There's nothing personal about it, nobody has any business telling a complete stranger what to do (in an insulting manner, to boot), unasked and inappropriately, and without the purpose of protecting someone else. It's okay for fire to express his opinion, but if I have an opinion about it, I'm being "nasty", taking it "as a great personal affront" and chucking "abusive language"? Come on. I changed only the subject of fire's statement, not the statement itself (which most definitely was abusive).
posted by biscotti at 9:36 AM on July 20, 2004
As has been pointed out, it wasn't really unspoken at all, and I don't see how what I said was abusive (or even really nasty), I took fire's unpleasant comment and rephrased it. There's nothing personal about it, nobody has any business telling a complete stranger what to do (in an insulting manner, to boot), unasked and inappropriately, and without the purpose of protecting someone else. It's okay for fire to express his opinion, but if I have an opinion about it, I'm being "nasty", taking it "as a great personal affront" and chucking "abusive language"? Come on. I changed only the subject of fire's statement, not the statement itself (which most definitely was abusive).
posted by biscotti at 9:36 AM on July 20, 2004
But it wasn't an unspoken urge, was it? Fire came right out and said it, so it was very much spoken, in a setting where only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots wouldn't recognize that the objects of his derision were out there reading his diatribe.
Oooh. Okay, so the rule of thumb on MeFi, then, is don't share your personal thoughts.
I'll keep that in mind next time there's any sort of discussion about hyperactive brats on airplanes and how I'd like to strangle that little bastard who keeps tossing shit over the seat. And if we have a discussion about dogs, I'll be sure to not refer to "punt dogs," nor will I mention my fantasies about making irresponsible dog owners eat the shit they've refused to poop-scoop.
Because god forbid that someone with children or a dog take offense.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:42 AM on July 20, 2004
Oooh. Okay, so the rule of thumb on MeFi, then, is don't share your personal thoughts.
I'll keep that in mind next time there's any sort of discussion about hyperactive brats on airplanes and how I'd like to strangle that little bastard who keeps tossing shit over the seat. And if we have a discussion about dogs, I'll be sure to not refer to "punt dogs," nor will I mention my fantasies about making irresponsible dog owners eat the shit they've refused to poop-scoop.
Because god forbid that someone with children or a dog take offense.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:42 AM on July 20, 2004
grumblebee ... what part don't you understand? Hijinx posted a second message about some aspect of fat life to the front page. In his own words, "Well, the existing thread is getting ugly. What about a new, separate thread on a different facet of fat - one involving another story - that I feel others should read?" Meanwhile, hijinx is aware that "Fat threads on MeFi are never, ever good. Ever." So when the thread does take the established inevitable course, what does hijinx do? He takes it to Metatalk, and insists that Matt clean up the mess from the trap he set.
I have a glass full of water here on my desk. Every time the cat walks by it, the cat knocks it down, and the water spills all over the floor. Lets see what happens when I put the glass here again. Here comes the cat, and there goes the glass. I knew that was going to happen. I am outraged! I insist that Matt Haughey come over here and clean up this mess! Cats are mean to defenseless glasses of water! Oh, the outrage!
posted by crunchland at 9:45 AM on July 20, 2004
I have a glass full of water here on my desk. Every time the cat walks by it, the cat knocks it down, and the water spills all over the floor. Lets see what happens when I put the glass here again. Here comes the cat, and there goes the glass. I knew that was going to happen. I am outraged! I insist that Matt Haughey come over here and clean up this mess! Cats are mean to defenseless glasses of water! Oh, the outrage!
posted by crunchland at 9:45 AM on July 20, 2004
But this comment by the fire you left me pretty much sums up the problems
One can't laugh at self.
posted by thomcatspike at 10:21 AM on July 20, 2004
One can't laugh at self.
posted by thomcatspike at 10:21 AM on July 20, 2004
I think it was Robert Blake who once made a joke about Orson Wells's weight, to which Wells replied [paraphrasing:], My weight, unlike your rudeness, is only curable with great difficulty.
Then, like now, it was immediately apparent who had class and maturity and who lacked it completely.
posted by Shane at 10:31 AM on July 20, 2004
Then, like now, it was immediately apparent who had class and maturity and who lacked it completely.
posted by Shane at 10:31 AM on July 20, 2004
crunchland, here's a better analogy.
I put a full glass of water on the floor once, and my cat walked by it. He knocked it over. I thought, "Crap," and cleaned it up. I did this again and once again, he knocked it over. I thought, "Well, that's odd. But he's a good cat otherwise, and accidents happen." The next time I put a full glass of water on the floor, I gave the cat the benefit of the doubt. Did he knock it over? Well, that depends on if the cat learned anything.
Look! My agenda!
Meanwhile, hijinx is aware that "Fat threads on MeFi are never, ever good. Ever."
How convenient that you neglect to mention that I started a new thread in the hopes of advancing discussion, not baiting others.
My point with this MeTa thread is just that the comment was uncalled for and insulting. Whether it was said with malice or not, it's entirely indictive of the long and awkward history MeFi has had with fat topics. It would be great if MeFi could handle itself better when dealing with fat.
I gave it a shot. I was branded a troll. Gee, thanks!
posted by hijinx at 10:51 AM on July 20, 2004
I put a full glass of water on the floor once, and my cat walked by it. He knocked it over. I thought, "Crap," and cleaned it up. I did this again and once again, he knocked it over. I thought, "Well, that's odd. But he's a good cat otherwise, and accidents happen." The next time I put a full glass of water on the floor, I gave the cat the benefit of the doubt. Did he knock it over? Well, that depends on if the cat learned anything.
Look! My agenda!
Meanwhile, hijinx is aware that "Fat threads on MeFi are never, ever good. Ever."
How convenient that you neglect to mention that I started a new thread in the hopes of advancing discussion, not baiting others.
My point with this MeTa thread is just that the comment was uncalled for and insulting. Whether it was said with malice or not, it's entirely indictive of the long and awkward history MeFi has had with fat topics. It would be great if MeFi could handle itself better when dealing with fat.
I gave it a shot. I was branded a troll. Gee, thanks!
posted by hijinx at 10:51 AM on July 20, 2004
hijinx, don't let the poolpissers get you down.
posted by deadcowdan at 10:58 AM on July 20, 2004
posted by deadcowdan at 10:58 AM on July 20, 2004
Crunchland, I take your point and maybe hijinx should have worded his MeTa post a little better, but I don't think he really believes ""Fat threads on MeFi are never, ever good. Ever." In the sense that there's no possibility that they ever COULD be. I think he was trying to start a new one where people could have a second chance to discuss without fighting.
I do get your interpretation now, though. It's possible he could have posted the second threat to start a second fight.
Your interpretation might be right. Mine might be right, too. But why interpret someone's intentions in a negative way if you don't have to? I can definitely imagine doing the EXACTLY the same thing hijinx did with no intention to troll. Maybe it wouldn't be a very wise thing to do, but it wouldn't be done with ill intent.
posted by grumblebee at 11:03 AM on July 20, 2004
I do get your interpretation now, though. It's possible he could have posted the second threat to start a second fight.
Your interpretation might be right. Mine might be right, too. But why interpret someone's intentions in a negative way if you don't have to? I can definitely imagine doing the EXACTLY the same thing hijinx did with no intention to troll. Maybe it wouldn't be a very wise thing to do, but it wouldn't be done with ill intent.
posted by grumblebee at 11:03 AM on July 20, 2004
I guess it was his obnoxious, defensive posture in this message that indicated to me that he was looking for a fight, and that his intent doesn't really go with the "Oh well, I tried, Metafilter" attitude he's trying to push now.
posted by crunchland at 11:23 AM on July 20, 2004
posted by crunchland at 11:23 AM on July 20, 2004
Ehhh, I don't think crunch is exactly a poolpisser. He's always seemed cool to me, althouigh I'd like him even better if he'd tell me how to take pictures with a Pencam Mini as well as he does.
I get the same reaction every time I see a PETA thread. "Why the hell did you post this, just so everyone can crawl outta the woodwork to pile all over PETA again, so everyone can explain how they feel animals are a lower, less conscious life form and therefore it's okay to eat them and treat them cruelly, so everyone can repeat the same tired bullshit all over again, like You animal lovers care more for animals than you do for people?"
Still, MetaFilter should be able handle obesity threads politely and maturely, and it's a black mark (black Fark?) on the site that so much of the populace resorts to name-calling and blame-casting.
So I don't see that crunch should pick on hijinx either, although I understand where he's coming from.
The whole "accuse and blame the person for gluttony" mentality of people telling obese people to eat less and exercize more is a major part of the whole problem, as many obese people already eat far too little, causing their bodies to go further into fat-retaining survival mode. A body won't burn fuel efficiently unless it thinks it has enough fuel to burn without falling into a crisis situation. Eating too little lowers the bodies metabolism.
posted by Shane at 11:27 AM on July 20, 2004
I get the same reaction every time I see a PETA thread. "Why the hell did you post this, just so everyone can crawl outta the woodwork to pile all over PETA again, so everyone can explain how they feel animals are a lower, less conscious life form and therefore it's okay to eat them and treat them cruelly, so everyone can repeat the same tired bullshit all over again, like You animal lovers care more for animals than you do for people?"
Still, MetaFilter should be able handle obesity threads politely and maturely, and it's a black mark (black Fark?) on the site that so much of the populace resorts to name-calling and blame-casting.
So I don't see that crunch should pick on hijinx either, although I understand where he's coming from.
The whole "accuse and blame the person for gluttony" mentality of people telling obese people to eat less and exercize more is a major part of the whole problem, as many obese people already eat far too little, causing their bodies to go further into fat-retaining survival mode. A body won't burn fuel efficiently unless it thinks it has enough fuel to burn without falling into a crisis situation. Eating too little lowers the bodies metabolism.
posted by Shane at 11:27 AM on July 20, 2004
So basically you posted another thread using the same language in order to teach metafilter a lesson about fat people (by your own words), to see if they "learned anything" from the first thread that was still very active and dealt with the exact same subject matter?
Even the political infighting rarely spawns two threads about the same subject at the same time just so somebody can prove a point; and if it does you'll very rarely find anybody defending it. Such is life, I guess.
posted by The God Complex at 11:32 AM on July 20, 2004
Even the political infighting rarely spawns two threads about the same subject at the same time just so somebody can prove a point; and if it does you'll very rarely find anybody defending it. Such is life, I guess.
posted by The God Complex at 11:32 AM on July 20, 2004
TGC: So basically you posted another thread using the same language in order to teach metafilter a lesson about fat people (by your own words), to see if they "learned anything" from the first thread that was still very active and dealt with the exact same subject matter?
You're taking my analogy too far, TGC. The post wasn't to teach MeFi a lesson. The post was to attempt to bring another discussion to the table, hopefully one that surpassed the first. The motivation for doing so? I sincerely hoped that people would question why a 3-year-old child was involved in what I felt was a harrowing ordeal, all over her size. You must admit that that particular story is different than the first thread. I found it immensely intriguing, the way this child was treated.
I thought others would, too. Instead, it became same old.
Oh, and to be clear, I know that some discussions about politics and the like have been consolidated into one giant thread lately. If that's the intent with fat-related stuff as well, then Matt needs to clarify this.
And, ah, crunchland: I guess it was his obnoxious, defensive posture in this message that indicated to me that he was looking for a fight...
Hey, you're peeing in the pool! In any event, I was responding to PV and you based on comments I read with dripping sarcasm (ie, especially PV's "Brilliant logic.") If these were not sarcastic, please let me know, and I will admit a misunderstanding over that.
But "obnoxious?" Crunchland, why the need to continually label me? "Troll," "hypersensitive asshole," "obnoxious," "defensive", "stupid," agenda-pushing.... I admit up thread here that I called you "delightfully insulting" but that was regarding your first comment, which (again) I read as insulting, and not you as a person (I don't know you!) If that wasn't your intent, let me know.
Not looking for a fight. No agenda. No trolling. No trap for Matt. The root of the post is that there's a problem here, ignoring it doesn't make it go away, and it always becomes personal.
Anyway, I've definitely said my piece and the horse, she's a gettin' old. As I said up in comment #1, Matt, this stuff gets really, really ugly.
posted by hijinx at 12:20 PM on July 20, 2004
You're taking my analogy too far, TGC. The post wasn't to teach MeFi a lesson. The post was to attempt to bring another discussion to the table, hopefully one that surpassed the first. The motivation for doing so? I sincerely hoped that people would question why a 3-year-old child was involved in what I felt was a harrowing ordeal, all over her size. You must admit that that particular story is different than the first thread. I found it immensely intriguing, the way this child was treated.
I thought others would, too. Instead, it became same old.
Oh, and to be clear, I know that some discussions about politics and the like have been consolidated into one giant thread lately. If that's the intent with fat-related stuff as well, then Matt needs to clarify this.
And, ah, crunchland: I guess it was his obnoxious, defensive posture in this message that indicated to me that he was looking for a fight...
Hey, you're peeing in the pool! In any event, I was responding to PV and you based on comments I read with dripping sarcasm (ie, especially PV's "Brilliant logic.") If these were not sarcastic, please let me know, and I will admit a misunderstanding over that.
But "obnoxious?" Crunchland, why the need to continually label me? "Troll," "hypersensitive asshole," "obnoxious," "defensive", "stupid," agenda-pushing.... I admit up thread here that I called you "delightfully insulting" but that was regarding your first comment, which (again) I read as insulting, and not you as a person (I don't know you!) If that wasn't your intent, let me know.
Not looking for a fight. No agenda. No trolling. No trap for Matt. The root of the post is that there's a problem here, ignoring it doesn't make it go away, and it always becomes personal.
Anyway, I've definitely said my piece and the horse, she's a gettin' old. As I said up in comment #1, Matt, this stuff gets really, really ugly.
posted by hijinx at 12:20 PM on July 20, 2004
I'm sure you meant that to sound humorous and clever, scarabic, but it came off as a mean-spirited and snarky
Perhaps so. I apologize for that.
My point, deeply buried, is that most of us are pretty well off in the world overall, and we can persecute one another over our weight, zits, and other minor physical differences, but in the end, we'll still be pretty well off in the world in general. A great divide between fat people and non-fat people is pretty silly to me.
posted by scarabic at 12:51 PM on July 20, 2004
Five Fresh Fish, you don't seem to be very well informed on this topic. You think that two-thirds of the US is "obese", which is incorrect. You've never heard of amphetamines being prescribed (or obtained illegally) for weight loss--don't you ever watch "Biography" or "Behind the Music"?
How are you contributing anything worthwhile to this discussion?
And, for everyone who is slimmer than average, yes, it's bad when people taunt/criticize/tease you about your size. It's certainly ironic when people who are teased/taunted/criticized about their large size criticize/taunt/tease others about their small size. I don't think anyone would argue with you for even a nanosecond about this.
Can I just ask, though, why people are so angry at other people for being either heavier or thinner than average?
And, when people declare that they aren't ashamed of their larger or smaller size, they're somehow participating in some [presumably bad] unneccessary "identity politics"?
Because I'm just not getting where the anger is coming from. People come in lots of different sizes. Some people really, really should eat less (or better) and exercise more. Some people really, really should eat more (or better) and exercise less compulsively. Some people should see an endocrinologist to have their metabolisms brought into whack. And some people are always going to be larger than others, while some people are always going to be smaller than others. What's the big deal?
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:04 PM on July 20, 2004
How are you contributing anything worthwhile to this discussion?
And, for everyone who is slimmer than average, yes, it's bad when people taunt/criticize/tease you about your size. It's certainly ironic when people who are teased/taunted/criticized about their large size criticize/taunt/tease others about their small size. I don't think anyone would argue with you for even a nanosecond about this.
Can I just ask, though, why people are so angry at other people for being either heavier or thinner than average?
And, when people declare that they aren't ashamed of their larger or smaller size, they're somehow participating in some [presumably bad] unneccessary "identity politics"?
Because I'm just not getting where the anger is coming from. People come in lots of different sizes. Some people really, really should eat less (or better) and exercise more. Some people really, really should eat more (or better) and exercise less compulsively. Some people should see an endocrinologist to have their metabolisms brought into whack. And some people are always going to be larger than others, while some people are always going to be smaller than others. What's the big deal?
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:04 PM on July 20, 2004
The post was to attempt to bring another discussion to the table, hopefully one that surpassed the first.
*wonders if hijinx has learned the lesson that bringing things to MeTa almost always makes things worse, not better.*
posted by dg at 3:42 PM on July 20, 2004
*wonders if hijinx has learned the lesson that bringing things to MeTa almost always makes things worse, not better.*
posted by dg at 3:42 PM on July 20, 2004
...we can persecute one another over our weight, zits, and other minor physical differences...
Oooh! *raises hand* I still get zits sometimes!
You've never heard of amphetamines being prescribed (or obtained illegally) for weight loss...
Competition bodybuilders like to mix caffeine, aspirin and ephedrine before working out. It's a cheap amphetamine-style fat-burner, but not exactly healthy.
It's certainly ironic when people who are teased/taunted/criticized about their large size criticize/taunt/tease others about their small size.
Indeed.
posted by Shane at 5:12 PM on July 20, 2004
Oooh! *raises hand* I still get zits sometimes!
You've never heard of amphetamines being prescribed (or obtained illegally) for weight loss...
Competition bodybuilders like to mix caffeine, aspirin and ephedrine before working out. It's a cheap amphetamine-style fat-burner, but not exactly healthy.
It's certainly ironic when people who are teased/taunted/criticized about their large size criticize/taunt/tease others about their small size.
Indeed.
posted by Shane at 5:12 PM on July 20, 2004
don't you ever watch "Biography" or "Behind the Music"
Would watching these require owning a TV? Because, you know, I generally don't watch TV.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:17 PM on July 20, 2004
Would watching these require owning a TV? Because, you know, I generally don't watch TV.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:17 PM on July 20, 2004
FFF, remind me to explain the concept of "joke" to you sometime.
But, wow. You don't watch TV? You must be incredibly creative and self-directed. You're a modern Thoreau, dude.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:27 PM on July 20, 2004
But, wow. You don't watch TV? You must be incredibly creative and self-directed. You're a modern Thoreau, dude.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:27 PM on July 20, 2004
Wait, just in case the sarcasm in the post above is lost on you, what I mean to say is that there has been a tremendous amount of coverage of the dangerous extent to which amphetamines have been prescribed for weight loss in all forms of print and broadcast media.
I have only seen "Biography" a few times, and have never seen "Behind the Music", so it's certainly possible that the topic has never been discussed on either of those programs.
However, I made the (perhaps false) assumption that anyone who believed that 2/3 of Americans were obese, and who couldn't tell the difference between sloppy-ass posting and careful posting by someone for whom English is a second language, isn't likely to actually read an article or book on the topic (let alone Google "amphetamines weight loss" before calling someone else out).
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:37 PM on July 20, 2004
I have only seen "Biography" a few times, and have never seen "Behind the Music", so it's certainly possible that the topic has never been discussed on either of those programs.
However, I made the (perhaps false) assumption that anyone who believed that 2/3 of Americans were obese, and who couldn't tell the difference between sloppy-ass posting and careful posting by someone for whom English is a second language, isn't likely to actually read an article or book on the topic (let alone Google "amphetamines weight loss" before calling someone else out).
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:37 PM on July 20, 2004
What is this thread about, anyway? You guys are mean about everything, not just weight. Or hadn't you noticed?
posted by konolia at 7:37 PM on July 20, 2004
posted by konolia at 7:37 PM on July 20, 2004
konolia - I, for one, have noticed I'm less cranky since I planted a garden and now spend a lot more time out of doors. Plus, I eat a huge amount of salad every day.
Just saying.....
....that, suddenly, I'd rather do some of the walking Pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela than feed another thousand comments into the maw of Metafilter.
posted by troutfishing at 8:05 PM on July 20, 2004
Just saying.....
....that, suddenly, I'd rather do some of the walking Pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela than feed another thousand comments into the maw of Metafilter.
posted by troutfishing at 8:05 PM on July 20, 2004
hijinx, it was bullshit to clutter up the front page with another thread when you could have just posted a link in a comment in a current and active discussion. At best it was attention-whoring.
posted by NortonDC at 9:01 PM on July 20, 2004
posted by NortonDC at 9:01 PM on July 20, 2004
Unclench, sidhedevil, unclench.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:46 PM on July 20, 2004
posted by five fresh fish at 10:46 PM on July 20, 2004
Can we get a BMI field on our profiles, Matt?
*ducks, runs*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:02 PM on July 20, 2004
*ducks, runs*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:02 PM on July 20, 2004
Fat people may be bad, but it's the fucking liberal Jewish media that really gets me!
posted by geoff. at 12:29 AM on July 21, 2004
posted by geoff. at 12:29 AM on July 21, 2004
Someone, for the love of God take my bait and end this thread properly with a reference to the Nazis.
posted by geoff. at 3:22 PM on July 21, 2004
posted by geoff. at 3:22 PM on July 21, 2004
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Fat threads on MeFi are never, ever good. Ever. But I'm still saddened that comments of a similar nature to tfylm's are left up, unchecked, to be trampled on by some and agreed upon by others. They're hurtful and personal. They shouldn't be allowed.
As I've said before, Matt, I love the idea behind MeFi. But when it gets dirty like this, it's really, really ugly.
posted by hijinx at 12:20 PM on July 19, 2004