Comments on 8249 | MetaTalk

Seasonal Affective Metafilter Disorder : I noticed it's my "Metafilter Birthday" today, and was reminded of my encroaching Seasonal Affective Mood Disorder - which in the past for me, with the shortening of the days in the Northern Hemisphere, has manifested itself in part through excessive Metafilter posting. Does anyone else notice a SAMD effect ? Or perhaps a corresponding Spring or Summer MetaMania™ ?
posted by troutfishing to MetaFilter-related at 2:54 PM (65 comments total)

Yeah, that is part of my disorder too. My big mefi blowup was in springtime....now that I know the pattern, I know what to watch for and when to watch for it.
posted by konolia at 3:01 PM on September 16, 2004

konolia - Also, I don't like to "medicalize" every behavioral trait, and I think this is more of a genetic adaptation to the higher Northern latitudes. But I'm sure you're aware of that.
posted by troutfishing at 3:13 PM on September 16, 2004

i get the winter blues too, and have found that full-spectrum lightbulbs help, and grabbing all the sunshine i can each day, if there is any. I don't know if it affects my posting, but i know i'm at home more then, so it probably does.
posted by amberglow at 3:19 PM on September 16, 2004

I am extremely sensitive to this. I know everybody says that but I need to have the lights on in order to sleep.

Matt has all the data so that someone could indeed see if there is a seasonal variation in posting patterns.
posted by vacapinta at 3:25 PM on September 16, 2004

I get the winter blues myself and we had a pretty odd summer so I expect it'll be worse than usual. Only a couple of 90 degree days, late start, now all I need is an early winter for the trifecta.

Matt might have all the data but it's buried in noise. One man's blowup is another's normal state of mind.
posted by substrate at 3:40 PM on September 16, 2004

Fuck I hate fucking winter fuck fuck.

That give you a clue, trout? :-)
posted by five fresh fish at 3:43 PM on September 16, 2004

happy metabirthday trout :-)

i trounce SAMD by spending a lot less time online... i try to get in more hiking and other outdoor activities, to get as much light exposure as possible. skating in the morning really helps on the longest days of the winter.

but i wouldn't say i comment or read less here because of that... if anything my participation probably stays the same, since i use mefi for one stop ~~shopping~~ surfing, when i don't have time for the rest of the web.
posted by t r a c y at 3:43 PM on September 16, 2004

I was away from Seattle for over two weeks and came back on Friday to the wet, the grey, the darkness. Ug. And we're still on daylightsavings time. Double ug.

SAD hits my spouse harder than it hits me and this year (apart from the lightbox regiment) we've vowed to fight back with a plan that involves (a) near daily trips to the gym, (b) a couple of short weekends in CA, and (c) a week somewhere very sunny in, say January.

I'm hoping that the blogging and any posting I do during this time of year will have a warm glow of happiness. . . here's wishing good luck to us all!
posted by donovan at 4:30 PM on September 16, 2004

i try to get in more hiking and other outdoor activities

Yeh, I start to get funky when the cold weather hits, but I fight it by getting exercize outside, walking or running like an animal in the cold, or maybe with an animal (dog) in the cold. It really helps. Be a part of the weather.
posted by Shane at 4:44 PM on September 16, 2004

As I edge closer to Depends Adult Diapers territory, I have begun to notice strong reactions to air pressure. I honestly feel murderous when it drops, these days. No, seriously.

Makes me amusingly bipolar, which at least keeps things interesting.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:20 PM on September 16, 2004

But I gotta wonder, now that I've been suckered in to the thread, what the fuck this has to do with metafilter, other than in the most artificially tangential way.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:21 PM on September 16, 2004

And since I'm really on a roll now, I'll mention that summers in Korea are cloudy and wet, while the winters are day after day after week of dry, sunny weather. I freakin' love winter here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:23 PM on September 16, 2004

Can it, grandpa.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:34 PM on September 16, 2004

In all seriousness, it's a form a depression.

I used to get it bad (though, in a way I liked it). Then I began taking an SSRI for my mild depression, aka, dysthymia. My mild depression is gone, and so is my winter blues. But there are times when I miss, at least, the winter blues part, for the "writer muse" mood it puts me in.

Alternative therapy: go south for a few days. I remember being in Paris, just from January to early April, and becoming incredibly blue. Except, I didn't realize I had been blue until I took the train south to Nice, stayed on the beach for a few days, went swimming, and felt euphoric.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:45 PM on September 16, 2004

PS: part of the problem in winter is that my sport of choice is road cycling, which is difficult to do when there's a promise of ice on the roads. Exercise is as good as an SSRI, IMHO, so, perhaps you can read and post to Metafilter while spining, or just after a workout?
posted by ParisParamus at 5:50 PM on September 16, 2004

Can it, grandpa.

*cries, wets his pants*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:58 PM on September 16, 2004

Alternative therapy: go south for a few days. I remember being in Paris, just from January to early April, and becoming incredibly blue. Except, I didn't realize I had been blue until I took the train south to Nice, stayed on the beach for a few days, went swimming, and felt euphoric.

Damn straight. It's always weird for me on the first reasonably warm and sunny day in Chicago, since for no reason other than the change in the weather I become happy.

If you replace metafilter with alt.religion.kibology or alt.possessive.its.has.no.apostrophe trout's observation would hold of me as well, I think.
posted by kenko at 7:34 PM on September 16, 2004

Kenko, troutfishing appears to be in MA (I actually moved from Boston to Paris...), so your "milage" may equal his, but, for what it's worth, Paris is WAY north, and it's cloudy all winter, and in January, you can see the stars at 8am....SO, don't go there in winter!
posted by ParisParamus at 7:39 PM on September 16, 2004

I don't mean that everyone with SAD is bipolar, just that most of us bipolars have that thrown into our moodswing mix. Doc always used to tell me to get into the sun if depressed, and get out of it if I was hypermanic.

Exercise is as good as an SSRI, IMHO, so, perhaps you can read and post to Metafilter while spining, or just after a workout?

Sadly I have found that this only works for milder depressions. But it definitely is worth trying. Spinning rocks!
posted by konolia at 7:48 PM on September 16, 2004

PS: My comment re SSRIs and exercise should be interpreted as applying only to mild depression.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:50 PM on September 16, 2004

Matt has all the data so that someone could indeed see if there is a seasonal variation in posting patterns.

Hey Maaaatt, can you crunch everyone's usage pattern nightly and put a little mood icon next to all their posts?
posted by scarabic at 9:09 PM on September 16, 2004 [1 favorite]

Cool! Thanks!
posted by scarabic at 9:09 PM on September 16, 2004

Finally! An AIM Icon I like! Thanks!
posted by ParisParamus at 9:28 PM on September 16, 2004

Anyone else actually find that the seasonal weather changes, whichever season, make them almost bouyant? I love it when the weather changes in the Spring and Fall.

...which I don't see as strongly here in Austin as I'm used to. But I'm moving back to New Mexico within a matter of weeks, and I'm already anticipating the cold and even, yay!, snow!

I've really missed waking up those mornings where you can just somehow feel and hear that there's been a large snowfall over the night. And you look out the window!

I know that people in real snowy climes are about to chime in that it's not so fun when it happens every day. But I spent two years in the mountains outside Santa Fe at over 8000 feet in a 50's era trailer home of all things, freezing my ass off and contending with inches of new snow every day, and I still loved it. On the other hand, winter in Austin can be just amazing, like stav describes winter in Korea. There are so many winter days in Austin that are like beautiful Spring days elsewhere. I'm going to miss that.

Um, sorry. Got carried away with location and weather and seasonal musings. Sorry.

But does anyone else get all excited whenever the seasons noticably change?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:41 PM on September 16, 2004

I always do. Except spring to summer, which just scares me. For all of my adult life I've ended up living in places best characterized by grumblebee's "Tu Fu" poem. One could say I get Summer Affective Disorder Syndrome, actually. (Though this year, in my particular little nook in the world, the summer has been delightful.) My posting doesn't really change that much by season, anyway; it normally increases when I have some project I feel compelled to procrastinate over, and decreases when I finally square off and face up to it. (Get thee behind me, devil!)
posted by taz at 11:13 PM on September 16, 2004

"....i try to get in more hiking and other outdoor activities, to get as much light exposure as possible. skating in the morning really helps on the longest days of the winter." - The sensible thing to do.

"I have begun to notice strong reactions to air pressure." - stavros, I've always had those. I also hear, like a dog, occasional high pitched noises others don't seem aware of.....I've read that hunter-gatherers can often identify individual animal and plant species at distances we'd consider inconceivable......"

"...I've been suckered in to the thread, what the fuck this has to do with metafilter" - stavros, just call me Miguelito.

"My comment re SSRIs and exercise should be interpreted as applying only to mild depression" - Paris, I guess it's ECT for the heavy depression, eh ?

scarabic - I bet majcher could work up a little script for that.
posted by troutfishing at 5:24 AM on September 17, 2004

I think we all get that to some degree, EB--the first real day that seems like spring, or when the air gets crisp in fall, are wonderful.

What really unsettles me are those freak days (like a 70 degree day in December or January, or a 50 degree day in July or August). I wonder if we're adapted to a relatively smooth transition between seasons?
posted by amberglow at 5:39 AM on September 17, 2004

amberglow, not to be over, or under-serious, but the depression being spoken of is more profound than the absence of "spring fever." It's more a sadness and lethargy.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:45 AM on September 17, 2004

I used to not have any sort of SAMD. Then I became an avid motorcyclist.

Now I dread the late fall and winter in ways that would surely seem silly to the uninitiated. Others have it worse, because I am willing to ride in much colder conditions than many people are. The cold does not bother me as much as the precipitation.

Thank goodness the reprieve of spring is so very sweet.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:01 AM on September 17, 2004

Paris, I have SAD, and am not making light of it at all. Where did you get spring fever? I was responding to EB's comment about the change of seasons.
posted by amberglow at 7:33 AM on September 17, 2004

Sorry, I was referring to Ethereal's comment.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:07 AM on September 17, 2004

Paris, if you could be as human in other threads as you are in this thread, it would be a joy to have you around MeFi. No trolling, no hyperbole, no anger... my god, is that really you? You should try a couple weeks of just hanging out in MeFi being conversational instead of confrontational. You might find you like it. Lord knows many of us would love it.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:21 AM on September 17, 2004

Lack of sunlight is a bummer until it actually manifests rain, which always gives my mood a little jolt for some reason, ever since I was a kid. I suppose if I moved to Portland I might get sick of rain eventually.
posted by scarabic at 11:39 AM on September 17, 2004

So if I take a train down to Mexico, will I have a vile hatred towards the Mexicans too?

don't you already have one, damn infidel?
that said, CannesParamus is making sense: as a furriner coming from a generally warmer country I love the US's NorthEast, love it, the summer is often great (away from the cities) and I love the late spring and the fall with those red leaves in New England. but man, the winter is just so unbearably looooooooooong up there. I don't mind the cold, the snow is nice and cute if you don't have to drive, but the whole thing lasts just too long. and I like to wake up early, waking up with total darkness outside for months in a row must contribute a lot to a glum outlook on life. that is one of the reasons I turned down the chance to study in Boston. I'm just not accustomed to a five month winter. if only Palm Springs had a world-class university... if only.
also, I'm told Minnesota's winter is unbearably long as well.
posted by matteo at 11:55 AM on September 17, 2004

I was away from Seattle for over two weeks and came back on Friday to the wet, the grey, the darkness. Ug. And we're still on daylightsavings time. Double ug.

The darkness comes from that clouds over clouds double cloud cover. Today, on the other hand, is bright and sunny and the air so clean from all the rain. Suddenly, one feels happy and energetic for some reason.

Another factor here is the rapid change in length of day around the equinox, with the bulk of the daylight lost on the sunset end of the day. Even so, a ride to work can begin at sunrise one week, dawn the next and under the stars in two more. It's quite a shock to the system.
posted by y2karl at 12:17 PM on September 17, 2004

Paris, I didn't intend to compare SAD with a failure to have spring fever.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:20 PM on September 17, 2004

I love changing weather. I like winter blues, most of the time; though not when it's too cold (it never is here). I like lots of different cloud patterns, though I agree low overcast can get really boring at times. But weather changes in general are a source of inspiration, not depression, to me. Empty wet parking lots with halos around the streetlights; newly green hills after the long winter rains; flowing fog and cloud barriers in the hills; ominous dark clouds - these all please me so much more than plain blue sky and unbroken sunshine. I miss the snow and the hours-long frigid glow of the northern winter sunset too, though not the dirt and ice on the streets.
posted by azazello at 3:33 PM on September 17, 2004

Oh my, I love fall and winter. The first few days of spring are nice, but by May, I'm counting the days till October. Summer is what depresses me--it's too hot, I can't think, everyone has that inane "we have to go out and DO things" fever (as though New York in July were so much more confortable than New York in December).

Besides, I find the absence of summer really cuts down on annoying people who insist that things like camping are fun. (Note: Moving into houses was a great step in civilization. I don't need to sleep in the woods to remind what a glory screens and indoor plumbing are.)

I grew up in SoCal and my first few winters were New England ones; they were a little tough. But now I find I adore the lack of pressure to go outside, the way the cold kills bugs, sweaters, hunkering down to a good long read, and drinking gallons of microwaved apple cider.

If anyone feels a little SAD (though not so bad you need genuine help), come over. We can cuddle under the blankets and read fat books and enjoy the golries of civilization together.
posted by dame at 4:05 PM on September 17, 2004

One of which is proofing things before one posts--no more spelling mistakes once it stays below 70.
posted by dame at 4:11 PM on September 17, 2004

I embrace the cold, dead of winter.
posted by geoff. at 4:51 PM on September 17, 2004

The Snow Man

One must have a mind of winter
To regard the frost and the boughs
Of the pine-trees crusted with snow;

And have been cold a long time
To behold the junipers shagged with ice,
The spruces rough in the distant glitter

Of the January sun; and not to think
Of any misery in the sound of the wind,
In the sound of a few leaves,

Which is the sound of the land
Full of the same wind
That is blowing in the same bare place

For the listener, who listens in the snow,
And, nothing himself, beholds
Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is.

Wallace Stevens
posted by languagehat at 5:02 PM on September 17, 2004

There's a difference between SAD or winter blues (whatever you want to call it) and a dislike of winter. I believe SAD is specifically a reaction to shorter days and less natural light, not to cold, ice, basketball / whatever else you dislike about winter. The thing about this kind of mild depression is that you (I, anyway) don't go around thinking, gosh I hate this darkness, I wish it would stay light longer... rather, you feel irritable and upset and just really sad a lot more often - like pms, you may not notice for a while that it's congruent with a certain natural cycle - it's not in response to 'gosh I hate menstruating' but is an unconscious mood change.

Anyway, being sensitive to how many hours of daylight is certainly common (it's why xmas is when it is, for one thing), although apparently not universal (I was talking to some minnesotans a while back who claimed limited daylight didn't bother them at all).

fuckin' perky minnesotans.
posted by mdn at 7:47 PM on September 17, 2004

Mmmm. Fucking perky Minnesotans...

Good times.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:57 PM on September 17, 2004

If it is so common, is it possible that outside of particularly debiltating cases, it's normal and not a disease? That people think we're supposed to be happy all the time, and therefore think something is wrong when one isn't?

I don't mean to say that people don't feel worse—I'm sure they do. But by not feeling the need to be happy, I take pleasure in my melancholy and inwardness.

Though that is a good point about Xmas, I thought it was just a harvest festival, which takes place just at the start of winter because that's when the harvest is done and there's loads of food?
posted by dame at 9:45 PM on September 17, 2004

I think that I'm a bit different than most...I dread/loathe/hate the summer & the heat...but as fall arrives, and the air gets progressively more crisp, clear, and cold, I become much more energized, focused, and "alive." And when it snows -- I'm practically doing cartwheels down the hall at work.
posted by davidmsc at 10:39 PM on September 17, 2004

dame: Harvest celebration is end of October (Haloween/All Saints) and Thanksgiving. Historicaly Christmas is about Winter Solstice, when daylight begins increasing.

davidmsc: Thanks, that's partly what I wanted to say, except that I like summer so long as I can swim someplace nice. I get homesick for Michigan when I can't.

I adore snow, especially in very large amounts. I love the way sounds change, I love the challenges. Even driving in winter enlivens me. I lived in northern Wisconsin awhile, and learned winter is far more pleasant so long as it stays frozen (therefore less icy). What many of us think of as the CRAP of winter is about freezing rain and slush.

I love the fall when its dry, but get tired of cold rain rather quickly. Yet I do enjoy weather in general, and that includes storms. After 6 years in Europe, I miss storms! Haven't seen ANY seriously heavy rain or thunderstorms the entire time.

Now as the days shorten here in England, I find it irritating to have to turn on lights when I get up. But not depressing.

The question that comes to my mind though, what about the tropics? Compared to temperate summer, 12 hours of daylight is short! Yet thats the norm around the equator. I wonder very much what that would be like.
posted by Goofyy at 11:02 PM on September 17, 2004

Ooh, yeah, thunderstorms! I grew up on the llano estacado of eastern New Mexico / West Texas—huge wide-open desolate spaces where thunderheads would swallow the whole world. (Those were fun. The tornados, not so much.) Thunder and lightning, rain pounding on the roof and against windows—I love storms. Hell, I just like sleeping at night with the sound of rain and (mild) storming in the background.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:49 PM on September 17, 2004

(FiveFresh: thank you, I think).
posted by ParisParamus at 6:54 AM on September 18, 2004

dame, I certainly don't think it's a disease, but it really depends what people mean by "disease", doesn't it? Yes, it's historically known that limited daylight is usually a depressive. But it can lead to serious lethargy and unhappiness, and if that's not necessary or can be treated by sunboxes or exercise schedules or even pills if necessary, then I don't see why it shouldn't be.

I'm not talking about "inwardness" or a sort of thoughtful melancholia. I'm talking about a much less romantic sort of mood, where you just don't have much energy and don't care much about stuff and are generally feeling kind of grumpy and down.

I love thunderstorms, and rain, too. And I like cold bright brisk winter days. But my mood is noticably affected when I don't have light. I lived in an apartment whose windows faced into an alley, and I just never had any energy. Then I moved into basically the opposite scenario, an apartment with 6 windows, on the 6th floor, facing in two directions - the shift in my state of mind and general energy level was immediate and obvious. Most people can at least relate to this, but different people are affected to differing degrees. I will never live in an apartment without natural light again, no way. Others may find it less debilitating.
posted by mdn at 9:19 AM on September 18, 2004

I guess what I'm wondering, mdn, is whether it's possible, on the lighter end of the spectrum, that the reaction to feeling glum or unhappy is determinate. Like one person may feel unhappy, think unhappiness is bad, and therefore excercise, get full spectrum lighs, etc., while the second person responds to the same unhappiness by thinking it is interesting, appropriate, not bad, and therefore chooses to revel in it instead, leading to a sort of appreciating melancholia. Do you think that is possible?

(This is obviously a pet theory of mine--it seems to me people make themselves more unhappy by trying always to pursue happiness instead of considering it a possibility among others. I'm just interested in testing it by seeing others' responses. That is, I don't think there's a "right" answer.)
posted by dame at 10:50 AM on September 18, 2004

Put me in the "I hate summer" catagory.

Growing up in SoCal does not prepare you for any "weather," so having recently moved to North Carolina, I get inordinately amused by snow and charged by thunderstorms. I am absolutely enamoured of those "velvety" spring days when the air seems to caress your skin.

But then there are 5 months of stinky, oppressive, wet armpit-like days they call summer around here. I can't even imagine what life in Mississippi is like. I don't get depressed, I just don't want to do anything.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:51 AM on September 18, 2004

...while the second person responds to the same unhappiness by thinking it is interesting, appropriate, not bad, and therefore chooses to revel in it instead, leading to a sort of appreciating melancholia.

Time to put away your dog-eared copy of The Bell Jar, I think.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:18 PM on September 18, 2004

I lived in Seattle for four years and definitely found the dark and rain depressing.

The goth chicks more than made up for it, though.
posted by bingo at 1:59 PM on September 18, 2004

Wow, EB, thanks for making my point for me. You can enjoy or find pleasure in feelings other than happiness without being suicidal or even particularly miserable. The notion that you can't--or that doing so makes you some sort of Plath wannabe (I hated The Bell Jar)--strikes me, at times, as more harmful.
posted by dame at 5:31 PM on September 18, 2004

I hated the Bell Jar too. My one word review of it is: "medication."
posted by scarabic at 6:47 PM on September 18, 2004

(Paris: honestly, it's been a delight reading you in this thread!)

Did I mention I hate winter with all the passionate loathing I can muster? Thank Pfizer for medications.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:45 PM on September 18, 2004

"And when it snows -- I'm practically doing cartwheels down the hall at work." - davidmsc, I agree until about, well.... January.

"You can enjoy or find pleasure in feelings other than happiness without being suicidal" - Dame, that's a great, subtle point that's usually lost on the non-depressed.

__________________

I used to go x-country skiing in the snow up small mountains in 0-degree weather.

I'd get hot and stop to meditate until I'd get cold. Then, I'd ski some until I warmed up.

One winter though (unrelated to the skiing), while working as an auto mechanic, my hands got frostbitten and now I have to watch my winter frolicking. My other extremities survived intact.
posted by troutfishing at 9:11 PM on September 18, 2004

Five fresh: I promise you that the Paris Paramus of Metafilter, and of the other Metas is one, integrated person, and someone you'd probably like in person. Just chalk it up the engima of life.
posted by ParisParamus at 10:12 PM on September 18, 2004

I chalk it up to the angina of life.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:48 PM on September 18, 2004

I believe that, PPP, for you and I have discussed toilet installation.

Damned if I can find that thread though.

Alas, for it was like the "Christmas Truce" in the WW1 trenches.
posted by troutfishing at 11:04 PM on September 18, 2004

MetaTalk: I believe that, for you and I have discussed toilet installation.
posted by languagehat at 7:08 AM on September 19, 2004

remember the wax seal when seating said toilet, this will prevent leaks.

-Words from the etheral pump and valve, secret order of the File and Claw
posted by clavdivs at 2:07 PM on September 19, 2004

clavdivs - how do? I finally ran across "Buna" (good tip), but anyway.....

I wish the "etheral pump and valve" had been on hand when I installed my toilet. But, the wax seal wasn't the problem : I bought a cheap toilet, and also didn't allow enough drop before the waste line below before it bent away from vertical. The damn toilet's always clogging and I'm going to have to redo it one of these days.

Manana.
posted by troutfishing at 10:50 AM on September 20, 2004

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