Post election thread doesn't go well.

November 4, 2004 2:23 AM

I'm not sure what you have in mind when it comes to "drastic" Matt, but this piece of crap needs to go... in my opinion of course.
posted by Witty to Etiquette/Policy at 2:23 AM (38 comments total)

Drastic Matt... hmmm.
posted by Witty at 2:24 AM on November 4, 2004

Baaah. The people have a right to know. The Proletariat will rise up, and there will be a reckoning.
Bush Out! Bush Out! Bush Out! Bush Out!
etc fucking, etc... / Yawns.
posted by seanyboy at 3:04 AM on November 4, 2004

welcome back, witty. your input is always appreciated
posted by matteo at 3:18 AM on November 4, 2004

I think the link is funny and poignant. But this piece of crap needs to go.

Seriously, we need more talk like that, not less. Maybe eventually we'll do something about it.
posted by Mayor Curley at 4:22 AM on November 4, 2004

Seriously, Mayor Curley, you don't want to mess with his friends.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 4:56 AM on November 4, 2004

If I were a betting man Witty, I'd wager you're not dancing too far away from the drastic edge yourself ...
posted by Irontom at 6:16 AM on November 4, 2004

Witty doesn't like something... shocking.

We should all seek to spare your delicate sensibilities.
posted by bshort at 6:22 AM on November 4, 2004

Witty isn't! First! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:31 AM on November 4, 2004

Mayor, I'm sorry that "anybody but Bush" didn't win. Maybe next time. 'Course next time, "anybody but Bush" should take it in a landslide. You seem to be quite bitter. Oh well. So much for things getting better around here. Anyway, I have a rifle to clean... gays and Arabs to hate, etc. Y'all take care now.

on preview: Irontom... not followin' ya. I mean if that's the kind of thread that "interests" you, if that's the kind of thing you prefer to see filling the blue all day, every day, then you should be pretty jazzed. Me? Nah. I've been "skipping over the threads" of that sort for a few months now... finding myself doing a lot more skipping than I ever did before. I've been doing so to the point that daily check-ins to this site just aren't worth the bother anymore. But anyway, if the post-election-Mefi is going to be just more of the same incessant anti-Bush, anti-Republican, anti-American rhetoric, then well... I dunno. It's too bad, I know that much.
posted by Witty at 6:31 AM on November 4, 2004

I can only speak for myself.

Personally, I haven't offered to kill anybody, I don't spike the ball in anyone's face when I win, and my mama didn't raise a sore loser. Is there any place for me in your America, Witty?
posted by chicobangs at 7:34 AM on November 4, 2004

Let's take every single little thing that Matt says in response to our complaints, and then use it to justify more complaints! Yay!
posted by DrJohnEvans at 8:04 AM on November 4, 2004

Of course there is. Is there a place for me in your MetaFilter? Not according to the Mayor or Pretty_Generic. If there's any space at all, it keeps shrinking and shrinking.
posted by Witty at 8:06 AM on November 4, 2004

I don't speak for Mayor, or P_G, or anyone other than myself.

And I've tried very hard to be civil with you during our time here, Witty. (With everyone else too, but I don't believe in addressing people as a bloc. It doesn't mean I don't occasionally do it, but it's a bad habit I'm trying to break, and feel free to call me on it when I do. So I'm talking to you.)

You're taunting people here, being kind of a showboating dick, and you're justifying it by saying that that's what the liberal bloc would do if the tables were turned.

That's not how the golden rule works, and that's not how class works. You want to make the world better, be the Bigger Man. You're capable of it.

I don't feel like I'm the bigger man, but I'm trying to act like a grownup. I don't know why.

For the fourth time today: I don't speak for anyone else. If you have a gripe with Curley or Generic or Amber or Troutfishing or anyone else, that's another deal. But I didn't advocate any barbarism, I NEVER showboated on anyone, and the fact that you think so little of other people that to you, we're all some amorphous mass that hates your guts does no one any good.

That is not the Metafilter I see, enjoy, participate in, or wish to inhabit.

This is an honest attempt to be civil. If you're going to justify your little touchdown dance by saying that I'd piss on your parade if the tables were turned, well, that's a serious fucking lie. I get angry, but in here I make a sincere and honest (and occasionally quixotic) effort to keep it above the belt.
posted by chicobangs at 9:21 AM on November 4, 2004

If you're going to justify your little touchdown dance

Funny choice of words. My thought since yesterday has been, "When you get to the endzone, act like you've been there." I'm still waiting for someone to just hand the ball to the ref.
posted by yerfatma at 9:23 AM on November 4, 2004

This post was deleted for the following reason: funny premise, but shitty comments

So once again, those who would censor certain discussions are empowered to do so. All one has to do is make some "shitty comments" in any thread one doesn't like in order to get the POST rather than the COMMENTS deleted.

Good to know...
posted by rushmc at 9:33 AM on November 4, 2004

This post was deleted for the following reason: sore loser


.
posted by dhoyt at 9:51 AM on November 4, 2004

...saying that that's what the liberal bloc would do if the tables were turned.

That's not how the golden rule works, and that's not how class works. You want to make the world better, be the Bigger Man. You're capable of it.

I agree with you, but the liberals on MeFi have been giving the conservatives on MeFi so much shit for so long that I think that conservatives are justified in gloating. Sure, it ain't sporting, but if you [not you chico, just a pretty generic you, no not you P_G ah fuck it] kick someone in the balls, don't whine when they kick you in the balls back.
posted by sciurus at 10:18 AM on November 4, 2004

Thanks, matt! Keep up the drastic!

(To the deleted: your posts are still welcome at Devoter.)
posted by dobbs at 10:19 AM on November 4, 2004

Well, then, as a liberal who really tries to not kick anyone in the balls (I know how that shit hurts, even metaphorically, and I didn't need a major election loss to learn that one) where does one go to have decent what-now discussions?

Frankly, I refuse to leave MeFi to the heathens without a fight, though I feel like I've asked about civility before and gotten either go-fuck-yourself or stony silence from people before.

Could it be that nobody wants to actually have a discussion about this shit anymore? Do you (you reading this, yes, you) have any interest in anything other than the fuck-you-no-fuck-YOU that this place devolves into more and more?

Because really, if I'm in everyone's way here, I'll just stick punch lines in all caps and "What ________ said."

I don't care who started it, and I don't want to hear that "well, no one else will stop, so I have to do it too".

Stop kicking each other in the balls.

Please.
posted by chicobangs at 10:31 AM on November 4, 2004

This post was deleted for the following reason: sore loser

i thought that link was OK, and i didn't see it in the regular news. i'm curious about the discarded ballots and the discrepancy between the exit polls and the actual vote (for example, how close where the exit polls in states with a high percentage of nontraceable computers vs. states without?). were exit polls just plain wrong everywhere? these are obviously not questions to AskMF, but i haven't been able to find the answers myself. i hoped that thread would help.

disclaimer: i didn't vote for Kerry and i am not a sore loser. i'm interested in the american electoral process and potential exploits of it. i also don't think that illegally influencing elections is unthinkable, so perhaps i'm slightly prejudiced.

if the original article already spawned a thread, i agree that the followup should have been posted within, but i couldn't find it ...

if a heavy deletion hand is Matt's choice to "bring civility" to MF, i think it's a mistake, because it will come at the expense of diversity. i visit the site for quality *and* quantity, not just the 1 half-decent "best of the web" link per day.

i also use lofi.mefi as the front door, and i hate seeing aborted posts trashing up my clean white page.

i suppose i almost never see a reason for deleting a post unless its obviously considered offensive by a majority of the community. or repeated idiotic behavior. then again, it's not my site. just my2c.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:43 AM on November 4, 2004

i think it's a mistake, because it will come at the expense of diversity

Dude, this site will continue to host all the links in the world to designy shoes, good web comics, wacky dancing fat kid videos and all the other best of the web parts that don't include the phrase "Op/Ed."

When was the last time I deleted a Friday Flash Fun link? Ever? There's your diversity. MetaFilter's not the Op/Ed page anymore.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:58 AM on November 4, 2004 [1 favorite]

MetaFilter's not the Op/Ed page anymore.

good luck.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:23 AM on November 4, 2004

That's not an Op/Ed piece, though the signs do express political sentiment.

That "we are too the heartland" thing from Salon needs to go, IMHO.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:25 AM on November 4, 2004

Now we are on the same page chico. groovy.
posted by sciurus at 11:47 AM on November 4, 2004

The Palast piece is back, BTW. I'm thinking that one's gonna need something in the sidebar.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:51 AM on November 4, 2004

I think the Palast piece should stay--it's actually factual, you know? Vote counting is important too. (I guess none of us are in the "reality-based community" anymore?)
posted by amberglow at 12:06 PM on November 4, 2004

It's actually surmise, amber. Like I said in the thread, I think Palast had something to go on in 2000 in Florida, but this piece is weak.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:09 PM on November 4, 2004

MetaFilter's not the Op/Ed page anymore.

THE.
FUCK.
YEAH!
MATT.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:11 PM on November 4, 2004

But we won't know that until the votes are actually counted, which is not for like 8 or 9 more days, if at all. It's important. The fact is that many votes still haven't been counted.
posted by amberglow at 12:33 PM on November 4, 2004

amberglow, then let's wait 8 or 9 days when we have actual proof and evidence of something, shall we?

Danke.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:47 PM on November 4, 2004

chicobangs - I'm gloating? How so? Where?

...being kind of a showboating dick

What are you talking about? I've made two comments since the election (which were the only two comments I've made in since October 22). The first was a counter comment to someones absurd notion that all Bush voters are gay-haters: FALSE... and the second was made in the post that this MeTa is all about... which is now gone. I posted this MeTa thread because I thought the post was shitty. The resulting thread PROVED that the post was shitty. The resulting thread was the kind of lame substance-less bash-fest bullshit that went on far too often around here, for months, prior to the election.

If Matt thinks it's time to put a stop to some of it, as he mentioned in the earlier thread, then I thought that was a good place to start. You don't have to agree.

Could it be that nobody wants to actually have a discussion about this shit anymore?

Not me. I'd love to read and participate in better political threads. They're just few and far between. Threads like the one in question dilute any reasonable and honest attention and better post might get. A post like that isn't going to attract good discussion. It's not the "best of the web". That link may have been a funny addition to a better FPP, but an FPP on it's own it is not.

This is an honest attempt to be civil.

As was this MeTa call-out.

If you're going to justify your little touchdown dance by saying that I'd piss on your parade if the tables were turned, well, that's a serious fucking lie.

I'm not lying... it's an opinion, not a lie.

Look, I never singled you out as a person that would SURELY gloat if Kerry had won. If you're not that kind of person, than good for you... you're better than most for it. You don't have to agree with me, but I can assure you that had Kerry won, this place would be bloated with gloating, endzone dances, 15 yd. personal fouls like unnecessary roughness, late hits out of bounds, facemasks, illegal chop blocks, clipping, blows to the head, spearing, tripping, etc.
posted by Witty at 2:47 PM on November 4, 2004

I agree with you, Witty.

But here's one of the more clever, or possibly wise, things I've realized in the last year: arguing from a counterfactual is a bad thing to do. You can't know that that's how people would have acted. But you're using your assumption that they would have acted a certain way, if things were different than they are, to...make a charge of hypocrisy.

Which is really weird if you think about it. How can I be responsible for not being critical enough of the things I did in an alternate universe?

Arguing from a counterfactual in this way just encourages one to make one's enemies even more unfair caricatures than they already are in one's mind. It's not fair to them, but it's also a bad habit of thought, encouraging one to adopt an increasingly distorted view of reality.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:55 PM on November 4, 2004

OK... well, I'm not really trying to argue about anything really, nor do I want to under the strength of an assumption. Basically, my point was that he was being rather extreme in accusing me of gloating, when in fact I haven't at all... and what gloating I've seen from others hasn't really been all that bad. The point of this post was not argue about gloating either, rather to point out what I thought was a piss-poor post, not in the spirit of good political debate. I'm glad that Matt agreed. If we're truely going to try to change the recent trend of shit-poli-posts around here, then let's do it. THAT... was a shit post.
posted by Witty at 3:46 PM on November 4, 2004

Alright, Witty, I accept that. And I'm sure the gloating in Mefi is better than it's been elsewhere (which is why I don't go elsewhere this week; I'm kind of bruised this week, which might explain why I've had to break it down like this at you. I'm sorry about that; you're not the absolute worst offender, and you're also the only one who's actually got the spine to stand behind what you've said, which I truly appreciate), but for my sanity I really could use a place where discourse is possible (not even required or expected, just -- possible), and I feel it slipping away in here, and frankly, that would really, really suck.

Peace.
posted by chicobangs at 5:07 PM on November 4, 2004

Oh, like you've ever added anything of value to this site - anything at all. All you have ever shared, here, has been an endless stream of juvenilia and snark and ignorant knownothingism. And now you want to be taken seriously in asserting that some post or another failed to meet your standards?

Your hypocrisy would astonish me, were I not sufficiently used to it that it barely registers.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:07 PM on November 4, 2004

the above comments were directed in their entirety at user 14524.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:16 PM on November 4, 2004

Stop kicking each other in the balls.

Why? I always thought that was the American WayTM
posted by dash_slot- at 6:05 PM on November 4, 2004

Didn't Seth and EB chase you away, adam? Maybe hama7 (following your lead) could return for a good mocking.

Now you're back to level charges of "hypocrisy" and present a criticism of "snark"-- criticisms that might be taken seriously, were they coming from anyone else.
posted by Kwantsar at 12:30 AM on November 5, 2004