who doesn't like heated massages?

December 3, 2004 12:00 PM

ProductShillFilter.
posted by mkultra to Etiquette/Policy at 12:00 PM (89 comments total)

*cough*

Another callout for the sake of a callout. Isn't a comment in the thread enough?
posted by esch at 12:05 PM on December 3, 2004

Isn't a comment in the thread enough?

NO! They must pay in blood.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:06 PM on December 3, 2004

If there's any Pepsi Blue, it's being used in a colonic.
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:07 PM on December 3, 2004

Isn't a comment in the thread enough?

i have a crab and a 2x4 with your name on it!
posted by quonsar at 12:07 PM on December 3, 2004

Thanks MKU, I was going to do the same.

To be honest, I had similar feelings about the BBCA post. Yeah, it has a link to AV Geeks, which seems legit, but I still thought it was overwhelmingly a plug for a cable program.
posted by dobbs at 12:07 PM on December 3, 2004

Gotta expect a few rotten apples in this batch of new users.

mic stand, if you've been a reader off-and-on for 5 years, as you say, did you not once read someone commenting that you shouldn't put up ads as posts? Matt has an excellent TextAd service- I've used it, it works. And you don't get slapped for using it.
posted by mkultra at 12:08 PM on December 3, 2004

Another callout for the sake of a callout. Isn't a comment in the thread enough?

No, because Matt doesn't always have time to read every thread. Bad threads do need to be called out. This is why MetaTalk is here.
posted by mkultra at 12:09 PM on December 3, 2004

And no, I don't think a post in the blue is enough as people who don't read the thread aren't going to see it and I think it's important that the new people (like mic stand, who made the post) realize that the thread has been deleted (if Matt deletes it) so they don't follow suit.
posted by dobbs at 12:09 PM on December 3, 2004

Where did all the political posts go? Has the Left given up? Or seen the light? There's an entire United Nations that we need to bring down!!!!!
posted by ParisParamus at 12:10 PM on December 3, 2004

I thought you were taking care of that while we loosened up a little.
posted by adampsyche at 12:11 PM on December 3, 2004

pay attention, PP, fer christ's sake.
posted by quonsar at 12:11 PM on December 3, 2004

Can't you email the user and Matt and inform them of this fact? Isn't that a little more sensible? That way you're not creating another crap thread, no one is publicly humiliated and the problem is still taken care of.
posted by esch at 12:15 PM on December 3, 2004

Well, the point is, we're trying to take care of the problem by publically humiliating them.
posted by Stan Chin at 12:17 PM on December 3, 2004

Because it's worked so well up to this point....
posted by esch at 12:19 PM on December 3, 2004

*lifts dress, shows off panties*
posted by quonsar at 12:21 PM on December 3, 2004

Just tell the person, either make your PR campaign more clever, or stop it.
posted by ParisParamus at 12:26 PM on December 3, 2004

So, PP, did you get what you wanted from that comment? Was it good for you, did it fulfill your need?

And what was that need, by the way? Are you desperately seeking attention, or are you trying to be a bully, or was it some awful attempt to be funny?

Whatever it was, I sure hope it was everything you wanted.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:28 PM on December 3, 2004

My only mission in life is to annoy you, FFF.
posted by ParisParamus at 12:29 PM on December 3, 2004

Because it's worked so well up to this point....

Actually I think it works pretty well. Political posts are sensitive and disputatious, but honestly we get very few ad posts. And I think it's because it's an open discussion, and if people really feel their post was valid, they can make their point and the rest of MeFi can weigh in.

And frankly mic stand, "Piss off you ungrateful snobs"? Come now.

The point comparing your post to the Laundry Bag/Rug one was a better defense. I see them as different, but realize it's subjective. I thought the rug thing was cool and new, while massage centers and chairs are not. But I throw a lot of laundry on the floor, so I may be biased.
posted by freebird at 12:31 PM on December 3, 2004

my god, FFF...replace "pp" with "quonsar" in your last comment and the damn thing still holds together pretty well!
posted by luser at 12:33 PM on December 3, 2004

As long as we're here...

LOSE WEIGHT NOW, ASK ME HOW. (email in profile)
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:36 PM on December 3, 2004

I can make your penis bigger.

*lifts dress, shows off panties*
posted by Stan Chin at 12:38 PM on December 3, 2004

*lifts dress, shows off panties*
Hey! today's not Tuesday! ewwww
posted by amberglow at 12:42 PM on December 3, 2004

What about the feathered bra post yesterday?

I guess I am just really suspicious when a new user's first post is shillfilter.
posted by Quartermass at 12:42 PM on December 3, 2004

Hey! today's not Tuesday! ewwww

*slowly starts to zip pants back up...
posted by Quartermass at 12:43 PM on December 3, 2004

NO! They must pay in blood.

well, the actual question is, is a 5-dollar membership good enough to shamefully plug a product on the front page of a site that gets 1.5 million hits a month?
if it's OK, well, I'm sure lots of advertisers will just buy a MeFi membership instead of an ad. simple as that.
posted by matteo at 12:43 PM on December 3, 2004

well, the actual question is, is a 5-dollar membership good enough to shamefully plug a product on the front page of a site that gets 1.5 million hits a month?

When did we learn that he was associated with the company?

Plugging something you're involved with = bad.
Promoting a product you belive in = what metafilter is for.

I don't think this is a very fine line, folks.
posted by esch at 12:47 PM on December 3, 2004

my god, FFF...replace "pp" with "quonsar" in your last comment and the damn thing still holds together pretty well!

yeah, well, at least my username doesn't describe my station in life.
posted by quonsar at 12:53 PM on December 3, 2004

*lifts dress, shows off panties*

Hey quonsie, where'd your fish go?
posted by me3dia at 12:54 PM on December 3, 2004

Piss off you ungrateful snobs.

Best response to a product placement callout in the history of Metafilter.
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 12:55 PM on December 3, 2004

How is mic stand's post any worse than this?
posted by cmonkey at 12:57 PM on December 3, 2004

My station in life? I live in brooklyn, and am sort of a lawyer.

Just learned that FFF is Canadian--now I get it!
posted by ParisParamus at 12:57 PM on December 3, 2004

I'm posting this French kitten in honor of Paris.

posted by darukaru at 1:05 PM on December 3, 2004

Promoting a product you belive in = what metafilter is for.

Not in my world.
posted by freebird at 1:06 PM on December 3, 2004

The laundry-bag / rug was also just a product posting, but I didn't mind that one. Rather than be an ass and just say "I like this" and "I don't like that," here are the criteria which I think make a product post okay:

1) novel and interesting (which is of course debatable, but it should at least seem interesting to some people aside from the poster)
2) not in any way a vested interest of the poster (like that hot sauce cockass Nick Lindauer)
3) appreciable by anyone (not just some niche product like super-great floor mats for the new Jetta etc)
posted by scarabic at 1:10 PM on December 3, 2004

Oh... and an "okay" product post does not contain the words:

"Piss off you ungrateful snobs."
posted by scarabic at 1:11 PM on December 3, 2004

In defense (in relation to scarabic's post)
1) this product is revolutionary in the healthcare industry.
2) i make no profit, other than knowing i may have led someone to feel a little better
3) there are international testimonies to the success of this product.

Plus, if you go to the centers, you will find no sales pitch. Some places make you use it for months before they'll even consider letting you buy it.

P.S. My bad on the defensive comment, but this is hardly an "okay" product if you would bother to find out more about it and how people's lives have been improved because of it.
posted by mic stand at 1:20 PM on December 3, 2004

Promoting a product you belive in = what metafilter is for.

Nuh-uh. Sorry, but that's not what MeFi is for. The product in question has NOTHING TO DO with the web.

There is, mind you, a way to do this post properly- go find some independent research about the company and its product, and the theory behind it. ANYTHING other than "here's something I like".

Yeah, the laundry bag/rug post was lame, too. It doesn't make this post any less lame.
posted by mkultra at 1:20 PM on December 3, 2004

Product/link/viewpoint. What's the difference?

1) novel and interesting. Check. There's a discussion going on in the thread aside from this train wreck.

2) not in any way a vested interest of the poster. Check. "I profit in no way from this, you do."

3) appreciable by anyone. Check. Everyone that reads here has a body.

does not contain the words "Piss off you ungrateful snobs." Not so much.
posted by esch at 1:21 PM on December 3, 2004

Promoting a product you belive in = what metafilter is for.

I must have missed the thread where Matt explained to us that MetaFilter is a consumer magazine
posted by matteo at 1:30 PM on December 3, 2004

"Piss off you ungrateful snobs." -me

My bad. I am sure (other than the post itself) that my credibility or level of respect by readers is drastically reduced, but frankly it is how I felt at the moment, so I said it.

Thanks for the defense, esch.
posted by mic stand at 1:30 PM on December 3, 2004

Scarabic, I agree with only #2 of your qualifications. Numbers 1 and 3 are wholly subjective, as has been discussed ad infinitum here in MetaTalk.

Mic stand:
1) this product is revolutionary in the healthcare industry.
Says you and the makers of Ceragem. This on its face is not a valid justification for posting.

2) i make no profit, other than knowing i may have led someone to feel a little better
Neither do the sales people in Ceragem centers, so how does this make you not a shill?

3) there are international testimonies to the success of this product.
Again, not a justification for posting. There are international testimonies to how great Pepsi is, but that doesn't make a post about Pepsi's new product any more appropriate.

For the record, I don't object to mic stand's post -- it wouldn't have garnered this attention if it weren't for his mention of being a regular. I agree that MetaFilter is not for "promoting a product you believe in," but it happens every day around here, just not as blatantly as in this case.
posted by me3dia at 1:35 PM on December 3, 2004

(I should say that the "novel and interesting" qualification is supposedly applied to all posts around here. But it's still subjective, isn't it?)
posted by me3dia at 1:38 PM on December 3, 2004

Somehow I doubt FFF is Quebecois....
posted by ParisParamus at 1:43 PM on December 3, 2004

matteo: har har.

You know exactly what I mean. But seriously, how is this substantially different from the infamous "We have cameras" post?(moral grey area aside)

On preview: What difference does it make if he's a regular user of the service or not?
posted by esch at 1:46 PM on December 3, 2004

It doesn't matter, but it gives the appearance of having a vested interest, which is the whole crux of this argument.
posted by me3dia at 1:48 PM on December 3, 2004

me3dia-

1) You wrote an article based on this product and met other people who felt their lives change. Multiple those few people by thousands across the world. Not just me and the makers...

2) The people at the sales center DO eventually sell beds, therefore end up making profits. I don't work at a sales center, nor do I make money.

3) Fair enough, but it is unique, everyone can use it and it seemingly is helpful (and that's all I was trying to demonstrate).

I wasn't trying to benefit myself, I was trying to provide something interesting for people to consdier who might be suffering from pain and disease.
posted by mic stand at 1:49 PM on December 3, 2004

I'm w/esch & mic stand. Unclench, people, it's just a link to thing mic stand found of value. It doesn't violate any terms of the site, written or unwritten. Calm down.
posted by jonson at 1:50 PM on December 3, 2004

So let me get this straight...You can only post a link to something if you've never used it?
posted by esch at 1:50 PM on December 3, 2004

me3dia - good criticism. Obviously we draw broad lines around subjective issues. All the time. With everything.

I don't object to this post. I think it's arguably interesting enough. IMHO it's basically new age shit, and I could give a flying fuck if it has "international testimonials." But whatever. If it's got some kind of "unlimited, free" something, then that's an interesting angle too.

As for the "revolution in healthcare:" penecillin was a revolution in healthcare. This is a frickkin' massager. People all over the world love the magnetic bracelet, too, but let's stick with letting doctors declare when a "revolution" has taken place, not marketers.
posted by scarabic at 1:53 PM on December 3, 2004

Mic stand, I wasn't accusing you of benefiting yourself, just pointing out that your "defense" doesn't justify the post, only your reasons for wanting to post it.

Esch, nice rhetorical trick, but you know what I meant. I was pointing out that the personal endorsement, combined with the "it's totally free!" language (which many people see as a sign of hucksterism, even if it isn't in this case), raised flags. Avoid it in the future and this (probably) won't happen again.
posted by me3dia at 1:59 PM on December 3, 2004

esch : Another callout for the sake of a callout. Isn't a comment in the thread enough?

Actually the comment in the thread was off topic, all callouts should be made in meta.
posted by Mitheral at 2:00 PM on December 3, 2004

Promoting a product you belive in = what metafilter is for.

WTF? I missed that memo.
posted by dobbs at 2:04 PM on December 3, 2004

Plus, if you go to the centers, you will find no sales pitch.

Since you don't work for the company, I'm gonna email them and tell them they should hire you. You've obviously drank the Kool-Aid and are determined to make sure we all have a taste whether we like it or not.
posted by dobbs at 2:07 PM on December 3, 2004

Matt killed the thread. Reason given-Shill Filter.

And That Settles It.
posted by konolia at 2:09 PM on December 3, 2004

Lately, I've been watching people's IP addresses, to make sure they're not stupid enough to post about say, the BBC America show, from a TV Network (which didn't happen in this case), but the original post referenced here looks like a total shill, and I deleted it.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:10 PM on December 3, 2004

Spinal health is critical to your well being. This bed helps realign your spine, but so do other things like Tai Chi, Yoga and Qi Gong (but those are ANCIENT "new age" suggestions.)


on preview: dobbs- oh I've tried, this posting to Metafilter was my latest attempt at showing them I really deserve a job. (whoops)

on preview too: that's the second post matt's killed of mine. I resign. See ya.
posted by mic stand at 2:10 PM on December 3, 2004

What was the other one I killed?

mic stand, the post looked like a shill for some new agey product and didn't offer much to readers that hadn't used it before. I'm not accusing you of working for them, but extolling the virtues of some really specific thing that only applies to a few folks, and linking to a spammy looking site wasn't quite good enough for a MetaFilter post.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:22 PM on December 3, 2004

MetaTalk: And That Settles It.

mic stand: Don't give up! No need to resign! Just take some time and comment awhile instead of posting. There are a lot of members who have never posted for fear of getting thrown to the wolves.
posted by me3dia at 2:24 PM on December 3, 2004

mic stand's other deleted thread.
posted by timeistight at 2:31 PM on December 3, 2004

I didn't mean to have a spaz about this, I just can't stand that some people wait for the moment where they get to play MeFi Avenger.

Seriously, five callouts in four months?
posted by esch at 2:43 PM on December 3, 2004

mic stand's other deleted thread.

D'oh. The chi/chai joke looks bad seeing it again. Heh.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:54 PM on December 3, 2004

I didn't mean to have a spaz about this, I just can't stand that some people wait for the moment where they get to play MeFi Avenger.

What makes you think anyone's "waiting" for it? Because they know the guidelines and callout when it's appropriate? I was on my way to make the very same post and I don't think I've ever called anyone out for shilling before.

Seriously, five callouts in four months?

Is this supposed to be less anal than actually paying attention to who does the calling out and actually being annoyed enough to count them?
posted by dobbs at 3:10 PM on December 3, 2004

from the thread: "Yeah I'm looking at you."


That sound you hear is an entire fleet of roflcopters strafing your house and firing LOL fire at fleeing civilians. How could anyone expect a thread to stay up with that kind of empty rhetoric (satire or parody aside, of course)?
posted by The God Complex at 4:02 PM on December 3, 2004

PISS OFF YOU UNGRATEFUL SNOBS!

sorry fellas, i just can't get over how wonderful that is! especially if you imagine it coming from the disgruntled clerk behind the counter of a crystal healing store in the mall . . .
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 4:14 PM on December 3, 2004

B-but....he has testimonies. Testimonies!
posted by Vidiot at 4:51 PM on December 3, 2004

dobbs: There's a new feature here, it's call posting history. Look in to it.

People get off on tattle-taleing to the rest of Mefi. Don't act like this isn't the case.
posted by esch at 4:58 PM on December 3, 2004

I'd like to take the moment to call out this thread as being very unfriendly.
posted by angry modem at 5:00 PM on December 3, 2004

staff lawyers have determined that we are not subject to international testimonies.
posted by quonsar at 5:03 PM on December 3, 2004

Oh I'm aware of the posting history feature. I just think it's pretty anal to use it to see how many times anyone's called anyone out. The callout was for a legit reason. Who gives a shit who made it?

People get off on tattle-taleing to the rest of Mefi. Don't act like this isn't the case.

Not once has this ever occured to me to be the case.
posted by dobbs at 5:09 PM on December 3, 2004

dobbs: There's a new feature here, it's call posting history. Look in to it.


Go eat a popsicle or something.
posted by The God Complex at 5:29 PM on December 3, 2004

results from Chakra test.

Root: under-active (-13%)

better not tell my machines that....
posted by dabitch at 5:48 PM on December 3, 2004

So let me get this straight...You can only post a link to something if you've never used it?
Unless it's Mac, or Google.
posted by tr33hggr at 5:54 PM on December 3, 2004

Can we just take a moment and recognize that mic stand has a kickass username?
posted by stet at 5:56 PM on December 3, 2004

he quit.
posted by quonsar at 6:06 PM on December 3, 2004

Plus, if you go to the centers, you will find no sales pitch. Some places make you use it for months before they'll even consider letting you buy it.

*shudder*

The creepy marketing lingo keeps going, even in his own MetaTalk call out. That's about as smart as saying, "But wait, your honor, there's more! If you order now..."

I resign.

Good riddance.
posted by squirrel at 6:07 PM on December 3, 2004

The creepy marketing lingo keeps going, even in his own MetaTalk call out.

heh. i just figger we are approaching the point where people just talk that way normally.
posted by quonsar at 6:23 PM on December 3, 2004

If you quit now, we'll throw in - at no additional cost - a RonCo Turnip Twaddler®.

Hurry, operators are standing by.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:46 PM on December 3, 2004

Please, if this post was for some new iApple product that came with free lube and had a center where Steve Jobs personally would spend hours massaging it in and out of your anus, you'd all be clawing each others eyes out to pile-on the awesomeness...

Now, I think this is a crappy post, but because its about some crappy hippie new age bullshit that sounds worse than chiropracters. And I firmly believe thats the same reason the rest of you anus-rententive nerds hate it also.

You all just love to smearing yourselves with the thick warm meconium of self policing and pilling on mic stand. Admit it and enjoy it at least.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 12:38 AM on December 4, 2004

me·co·ni·um n.
A dark green fecal material that accumulates in the fetal intestines and is discharged at or near the time of birth.

Learn something every day 'round this place.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:50 AM on December 4, 2004

I dunno if new agey quizzes are good for mefi

I'm not sure if it's fair to dismiss 2000+ year old Vedic traditions so quickly. I thought it was a fine link.
posted by euphorb at 1:36 AM on December 4, 2004

But that could just be my over-active Crown chakra talking.
posted by euphorb at 1:37 AM on December 4, 2004

Can we grow up ast the schoolyard nonsense of resenting people who call out bad posts as 'taddle-tales'? What the hell is that even about?
posted by Space Coyote at 5:18 AM on December 4, 2004

I didn't mean to have a spaz about this, I just can't stand that some people wait for the moment where they get to play MeFi Avenger.

Seriously, five callouts in four months?

I'm assuming this is directed at me, in which case I have a couple responses...

- MeFi Avenger? Cool title, it's now mine.

- If you're taking the time to crawl through my posting history to find stuff like that, you need to put down the keyboard and go outside. Seriously, this argument isn't worth it.

- Contrary to what you might think, I don't rub my hands with glee in anticipation of finding a crappy post to call out. I don't particularly enjoy it, but it needs to be done. Any kind of community like this needs vigilance to stay afloat. Every bad post out there is an excuse for someone to post another one. As evidenced by the "well such-and-such a post is still up" comments here. MeFi doesn't magically keep itself clean and tidy by itself.

- The influx of new users recently has increased the number of bad posts. What can I say? It's a fact. Of course, there are still plenty of good posts- I'd say that the general quality of FPP's in the Blue has gone up, a lot. By and large, I'm glad the new folks are here. We just need to get past the growing pains.
posted by mkultra at 6:45 AM on December 4, 2004

an offtopic note about meconium. you do NOT want to change the first ever diaper.
posted by mosch at 5:00 PM on December 4, 2004

I couldn't have said it better.

If you're taking the time to crawl through my posting history to find stuff like that, you need to put down the keyboard and go outside.

"Seriously", fuck you.
posted by esch at 5:01 PM on December 4, 2004

*farts silently*
posted by quonsar at 5:02 PM on December 4, 2004

Mic stand, you are a bad poster and a bad person, and I genuinely and personally wish you ill.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:02 AM on December 6, 2004

*sha-la-la-laaaaa*
posted by squirrel at 6:56 PM on December 12, 2004