Always blaming the US media/government December 27, 2004 2:03 PM Subscribe
WTF is up with the "blame the U.S. media/government" derail which occurs every time there's a disaster abroad? Why do so few seem to be bothered by it?
Who has time to be bothered by such things when we can, nay, must speculate on the bulges in various administration official's clothing?
posted by loquax at 2:06 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by loquax at 2:06 PM on December 27, 2004
eh, wait a minute...I only gave my thoughts and opinions read:
maybe Dubya could have given some money to that instead of money to blow up Iraq? [/bitch]
I'm not baiting/trolling for a response on that last sentence...it just kinda pisses me off when I think of all the money we've spent in Iraq and for all the supposed causes it contained. I will graciously and humbly stand to be corrected if needed.
please note that when I learned of the tsunami...my heart sunk and tears came to my eyes. Feelings of helplessness and loss was all I had on my brain for a long while.
Later, I thought about all that money we had sunk into Iraq (for what? I'm not sure) and it made me angry. Perhaps I should have not spouted that off on that thread but there's nothing I can do now except extend my humble apologies to you for derailing such a horrid time we are facing.
I personally wish I would have known about that they needed early warning detection systems and I would have tried to figure out what I could have donate.
In fact, I'm going to start doing research of places that need things for things that could happen and try to start donating. It's not that I've been a selfish bastard up until this time, but this has renewed my efforts to know that I could have possibly aided in the ability to supply funds for saftey instead of spending money on a Nintendo DS.
posted by Hands of Manos at 2:18 PM on December 27, 2004
maybe Dubya could have given some money to that instead of money to blow up Iraq? [/bitch]
I'm not baiting/trolling for a response on that last sentence...it just kinda pisses me off when I think of all the money we've spent in Iraq and for all the supposed causes it contained. I will graciously and humbly stand to be corrected if needed.
please note that when I learned of the tsunami...my heart sunk and tears came to my eyes. Feelings of helplessness and loss was all I had on my brain for a long while.
Later, I thought about all that money we had sunk into Iraq (for what? I'm not sure) and it made me angry. Perhaps I should have not spouted that off on that thread but there's nothing I can do now except extend my humble apologies to you for derailing such a horrid time we are facing.
I personally wish I would have known about that they needed early warning detection systems and I would have tried to figure out what I could have donate.
In fact, I'm going to start doing research of places that need things for things that could happen and try to start donating. It's not that I've been a selfish bastard up until this time, but this has renewed my efforts to know that I could have possibly aided in the ability to supply funds for saftey instead of spending money on a Nintendo DS.
posted by Hands of Manos at 2:18 PM on December 27, 2004
The chaos theory suggests that Bush's bulge might have caused the tsunami.
posted by Krrrlson at 2:22 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by Krrrlson at 2:22 PM on December 27, 2004
I think because in a largely like-minded community, that sort of thing basically becomes noise.
You see the same thing all the time in more right-leaning inline communities, too...people just blurt out things that are totally partisan, and there, as well, I think the larger community just kind of shrugs and moves past it.
Equally importantly, though, the larger, more pragmatic group doesn't really feel compelled to take up arms and defend it, so it just keeps happening on a low level without becoming a conflagration.
posted by LairBob at 2:24 PM on December 27, 2004
You see the same thing all the time in more right-leaning inline communities, too...people just blurt out things that are totally partisan, and there, as well, I think the larger community just kind of shrugs and moves past it.
Equally importantly, though, the larger, more pragmatic group doesn't really feel compelled to take up arms and defend it, so it just keeps happening on a low level without becoming a conflagration.
posted by LairBob at 2:24 PM on December 27, 2004
well it's what liberal americans do. rather than trying to find policies that a majority of people support, they stick to "their principles" which means having no power and whining about everything.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:39 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 2:39 PM on December 27, 2004
whining about everything.
Andrew. I'm not debating you on this (because I'm more of a moderate than a liberal) but I must have to stop and think about that statement.
I've listened to Rush, Coulter, Hannity, Boortz, Glenn Beck and other conservatives for extended periods (where I've worked before it's been nothing but staunch conservatives--the radio/tv gets conservative airtime, only ).
All I ever heard bellowing from those guy's pieholes is "bitch, bitch, bitch, whine, whine, whine, make fun of, make fun of, make fun of, demoralize, demoralize, demoralize" the left. I can't see how them saying those things is not in the ballpark field of "whining about everything" as well.
posted by Hands of Manos at 2:55 PM on December 27, 2004
Andrew. I'm not debating you on this (because I'm more of a moderate than a liberal) but I must have to stop and think about that statement.
I've listened to Rush, Coulter, Hannity, Boortz, Glenn Beck and other conservatives for extended periods (where I've worked before it's been nothing but staunch conservatives--the radio/tv gets conservative airtime, only ).
All I ever heard bellowing from those guy's pieholes is "bitch, bitch, bitch, whine, whine, whine, make fun of, make fun of, make fun of, demoralize, demoralize, demoralize" the left. I can't see how them saying those things is not in the ballpark field of "whining about everything" as well.
posted by Hands of Manos at 2:55 PM on December 27, 2004
Don't argue flame-bait, Hands of Manos. Just bow to its brilliance.
posted by BlueTrain at 2:58 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by BlueTrain at 2:58 PM on December 27, 2004
i was thinking that people here tended to be more centre than those guys. but maybe not.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:59 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 2:59 PM on December 27, 2004
oh. sorry, ignore previous comment. apparently i was flame-baiting.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:59 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 2:59 PM on December 27, 2004
I blame Bush.
Actually, I thought this was the most stupid ax-grinding in that thread. But you just tiptoe around it and hope everyone does the same...
I think we all have somewhat one-track minds. Some people are better at hiding it than others.
posted by Turtle at 3:03 PM on December 27, 2004
Actually, I thought this was the most stupid ax-grinding in that thread. But you just tiptoe around it and hope everyone does the same...
I think we all have somewhat one-track minds. Some people are better at hiding it than others.
posted by Turtle at 3:03 PM on December 27, 2004
(maybe i should clarify, that i'm from the uk and "liberal" there means roughly left-of-centre, rather than raving communist. so my point was that middle/left americans - from the evidence here - don't want to compromise, but would rather bitch from the sidelines. but, as i said, i may be wrong - my main contact with americans is via mefi and before the election i assumed they (people here) were middle/left, but it's possible i'm wrong and they are much further left of (american) centre than i realised (which means, equivalently, that american centre is to the right of what i thought - also believable). in which case your observation makes sense.)
posted by andrew cooke at 3:04 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 3:04 PM on December 27, 2004
Because it's true. I turned on the TV, which I rarely do, to watch for coverage of the disaster yesterday morning. There was hardly any coverage at all. And to my distress, I became more aquainted with Fox News.
True, there's wall-to-wall coverage today. It's as if the US media didn't realize the scope of this disaster until just today...although it was obvious to, say, the BBC and, um, me, that the early reports of 3000 dead were inevitably going to increase by many times. It was obviously a huge story, but the US media had to be hit in the head with big numbers and spectacular images before they paid attention to it. As others have mentioned, BBC and some other international news outlets were not so shortsighted/parochial.
I was absolutely disgusted with US television news yesterday morning and, as far as I'm concerned, it deserves as much abuse as anyone can heap upon it.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:07 PM on December 27, 2004
True, there's wall-to-wall coverage today. It's as if the US media didn't realize the scope of this disaster until just today...although it was obvious to, say, the BBC and, um, me, that the early reports of 3000 dead were inevitably going to increase by many times. It was obviously a huge story, but the US media had to be hit in the head with big numbers and spectacular images before they paid attention to it. As others have mentioned, BBC and some other international news outlets were not so shortsighted/parochial.
I was absolutely disgusted with US television news yesterday morning and, as far as I'm concerned, it deserves as much abuse as anyone can heap upon it.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:07 PM on December 27, 2004
Why would I be bothered by it, when I agree with it?
Actually, it annoys me too, when someone uses something like this tsunami disaster to get a few more pokes in at the vapid turd in the white house and his coterie of floaters. There are times where it's appropriate to point out what gready shit stains the members of Bush administration are, unnecessary, obvious and repetetive as it may be, and there are times to stay on point and merely let the words and actions of that bloodthirsty criminal scum and their media bootlick brigade speak for themselves.
But I'm with ya, dhoyt, I am. It's just a matter of register, linguistically speaking, when it comes down to it.
which means, equivalently, that american centre is to the right of what i thought
Andrew, the America left is to the right of the Canadian right. The America right is hovering off in orbit somewhere, making peep-peep-peep noises.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:08 PM on December 27, 2004
Actually, it annoys me too, when someone uses something like this tsunami disaster to get a few more pokes in at the vapid turd in the white house and his coterie of floaters. There are times where it's appropriate to point out what gready shit stains the members of Bush administration are, unnecessary, obvious and repetetive as it may be, and there are times to stay on point and merely let the words and actions of that bloodthirsty criminal scum and their media bootlick brigade speak for themselves.
But I'm with ya, dhoyt, I am. It's just a matter of register, linguistically speaking, when it comes down to it.
which means, equivalently, that american centre is to the right of what i thought
Andrew, the America left is to the right of the Canadian right. The America right is hovering off in orbit somewhere, making peep-peep-peep noises.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:08 PM on December 27, 2004
It's not about liberals. Americans simply dominate the English language internet and therefore threads about world events inevitably skew to an American perspective.
In this case the American interest was minimal, so it meant speculation about Diego Garcia and, uh, Arthur C. Clarke (not American but scifi and therefore important on the internet.)
posted by dydecker at 3:12 PM on December 27, 2004
In this case the American interest was minimal, so it meant speculation about Diego Garcia and, uh, Arthur C. Clarke (not American but scifi and therefore important on the internet.)
posted by dydecker at 3:12 PM on December 27, 2004
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
posted by orange clock at 3:12 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by orange clock at 3:12 PM on December 27, 2004
Until I saw the faces of the dead, I couldn't picture anyone in that part of the world in my mind but Clarke. That was quickly resolved. The bodies at the bottom of dusty mass graves in Sri Lanka now blend seamlessly with the Thai families sleeping outdoors, arm in arm, in colorful sleeping bags.
posted by Mo Nickels at 3:21 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by Mo Nickels at 3:21 PM on December 27, 2004
Boy, yet another Class 9 climb on Mt. Molehill--it must be holier than thou hall monitor week here, judging from all the look at morally superior me MetaTalk posts of late. Just as some people see the Virgin Mary in a cheese sandwich, dhoyt sees a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy of Silence in every unremarked upon non sequitur on MetaFilter.
posted by y2karl at 3:25 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by y2karl at 3:25 PM on December 27, 2004
(Thanks, Karl, for totally avoiding the issue at hand and concentrating instead on petty personal vendettas, much the same kind which you regularly lambaste other people for holding. Nicely done.
I said absolutely nothing about a 'Left Wing Conspiracy', and since it's obvious others in this thread acknowledge what I'm talking about, it renders your comment about "non-sequiturs" to be...well, it's pretty ironic...
Long story short: kindly quit stalking me from thread to thread like a bored, angry old crank. It's unflattering for us both.)
posted by dhoyt at 3:43 PM on December 27, 2004
I said absolutely nothing about a 'Left Wing Conspiracy', and since it's obvious others in this thread acknowledge what I'm talking about, it renders your comment about "non-sequiturs" to be...well, it's pretty ironic...
Long story short: kindly quit stalking me from thread to thread like a bored, angry old crank. It's unflattering for us both.)
posted by dhoyt at 3:43 PM on December 27, 2004
I thought in the UK the word "liberal" referred to free market capitalist types...
I could have sworn The Economist had an article about the differences in meaning of the word between the US and the UK a few weeks ago.
posted by Bugbread at 3:47 PM on December 27, 2004
I could have sworn The Economist had an article about the differences in meaning of the word between the US and the UK a few weeks ago.
posted by Bugbread at 3:47 PM on December 27, 2004
Long story short: kindly quit stalking me from thread to thread like a bored, angry old crank. It's unflattering for us both.)
If you can't stand stalkers don't whine on Metatalk.
posted by sic at 3:59 PM on December 27, 2004
If you can't stand stalkers don't whine on Metatalk.
posted by sic at 3:59 PM on December 27, 2004
If you stick it right in our faces, there's no stalking involved--it's not exactly like the hobby of following nofundy or fold_&_mutilate around from thread to thread, commenting upon their every comment. As for the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy of Silence--that's your own personal dead horse, Mr. Johnny One Note, which you beat into a pool of recrudescent slime long ago.
posted by y2karl at 4:23 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by y2karl at 4:23 PM on December 27, 2004
dhoyt - I've noticed it, of course, and find it rather annoying, of course. But honestly, I just don't care as much as I used to (and I use the word care loosely). I've decided that the reason it happens so much is because the people who do it are just lazy, blame other people(s) for everything, are easily humored by tired cliches and unfunny one-liners, and get boners over cheapshots, knowing they can get away with them because they're chirping to the hard-on choir... they have the audience for it.
posted by Witty at 4:24 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by Witty at 4:24 PM on December 27, 2004
It's not about liberals. Americans simply dominate the English language internet and therefore threads about world events inevitably skew to an American perspective.
I don't agree with that at all. Apart from Metafilter and Monkeyfilter, I don't comment on a single website which is American dominated. I think its more that Americans dominate American sites (or in the case of monkeyfilter, offshoots of American websites), unsurprisingly. I expect the British forums I comment on (which are just as insular in their way, or maybe even more so, than metafilter) don't even register on your internet radar.
So, metafilter threads may well skew to an American perspective, but English language threads in general across the internet don't.
posted by ZippityBuddha at 4:40 PM on December 27, 2004
I don't agree with that at all. Apart from Metafilter and Monkeyfilter, I don't comment on a single website which is American dominated. I think its more that Americans dominate American sites (or in the case of monkeyfilter, offshoots of American websites), unsurprisingly. I expect the British forums I comment on (which are just as insular in their way, or maybe even more so, than metafilter) don't even register on your internet radar.
So, metafilter threads may well skew to an American perspective, but English language threads in general across the internet don't.
posted by ZippityBuddha at 4:40 PM on December 27, 2004
I thought in the UK the word "liberal" referred to free market capitalist types..
At the risk of getting off-topic, I think it can have both meanings. Certainly here in New Zealand it does (c.f. the ACT party and the Institute for Liberal Values.
On-topic, I mostly agree with Dhoyt. Interesting to note that several of those threads contain snarking of the opposite kind - e.g. comments about how "all the natural disasters recently are hitting Muslim countries". Maybe just a fact of life that people will interpret everything according to their own agenda.
posted by Infinite Jest at 4:42 PM on December 27, 2004
At the risk of getting off-topic, I think it can have both meanings. Certainly here in New Zealand it does (c.f. the ACT party and the Institute for Liberal Values.
On-topic, I mostly agree with Dhoyt. Interesting to note that several of those threads contain snarking of the opposite kind - e.g. comments about how "all the natural disasters recently are hitting Muslim countries". Maybe just a fact of life that people will interpret everything according to their own agenda.
posted by Infinite Jest at 4:42 PM on December 27, 2004
Why do so few seem to be bothered by it?
I'm not bothered by it because I don't watch television at all, and get most of my news from the net and NPR.
The *first thing* I heard on the radio Sunday morning was news of the disaster. Updates continued throughout the hour, interspersed with other news. I followed stuff through the metafilter thread and Google news and a few weblogs.
The thing is, anybody who cares to get international news coverage can nowadays, just like anybody who cares to research a presidential candidate can get a much better picture than the one the mass media would spin for you.
The barrier to being informed has long since ceased to be the fault of the media. It's now individual responsibility.
posted by weston at 4:57 PM on December 27, 2004
I'm not bothered by it because I don't watch television at all, and get most of my news from the net and NPR.
The *first thing* I heard on the radio Sunday morning was news of the disaster. Updates continued throughout the hour, interspersed with other news. I followed stuff through the metafilter thread and Google news and a few weblogs.
The thing is, anybody who cares to get international news coverage can nowadays, just like anybody who cares to research a presidential candidate can get a much better picture than the one the mass media would spin for you.
The barrier to being informed has long since ceased to be the fault of the media. It's now individual responsibility.
posted by weston at 4:57 PM on December 27, 2004
stavros: I didn't realize you can spin such pretty yarn. In appreciation I'm sending you a good read I giggled over this morning. May all snarkers learn from it.
posted by semmi at 4:58 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by semmi at 4:58 PM on December 27, 2004
Interesting to note that several of those threads contain snarking of the opposite kind - e.g. comments about how "all the natural disasters recently are hitting Muslim countries".
Not a problem--dhoytFilter has a killfile for Vast Right Wing Conspiracy of Silence provoking comments.
posted by y2karl at 5:09 PM on December 27, 2004
Not a problem--dhoytFilter has a killfile for Vast Right Wing Conspiracy of Silence provoking comments.
posted by y2karl at 5:09 PM on December 27, 2004
As for the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy of Silence--that's your own personal dead horse,
Not a ghost of a clue what you're referring to here.
dhoytFilter has a killfile for Vast Right Wing Conspiracy of Silence provoking comments.
You obviously have trouble paying attention, seeing as how my first comment to this very thread condemns a wingnutty comment about Islam. And since people weren't silent about it, it's a moot point. You're sounding a little wingnutty yourself with all the VLWC/VRWC-talk.
Seeing as how you're batting .00, karl, would you care to take it to email since it's apparent that once again, someone has made your vendetta list? Do you have a point? Stay on topic and address the inappropriateness of the "Let's Blame America" comments in question, or STFU.
posted by dhoyt at 5:29 PM on December 27, 2004
Not a ghost of a clue what you're referring to here.
dhoytFilter has a killfile for Vast Right Wing Conspiracy of Silence provoking comments.
You obviously have trouble paying attention, seeing as how my first comment to this very thread condemns a wingnutty comment about Islam. And since people weren't silent about it, it's a moot point. You're sounding a little wingnutty yourself with all the VLWC/VRWC-talk.
Seeing as how you're batting .00, karl, would you care to take it to email since it's apparent that once again, someone has made your vendetta list? Do you have a point? Stay on topic and address the inappropriateness of the "Let's Blame America" comments in question, or STFU.
posted by dhoyt at 5:29 PM on December 27, 2004
Wait, you're saying it's NOT America's fault?
You forgot Poland!!
posted by Balisong at 5:37 PM on December 27, 2004
You forgot Poland!!
posted by Balisong at 5:37 PM on December 27, 2004
The "one track minds" comment comes closest to summarizing what's annoying about these kinds of comments. There's people here who, if you put about a thread about breakfast cereals would comment "I had Alpha Bits yesterday and when I poured in the milk they spelled out 'Bush Is Evil."
These kind of people (and they come in all political persuasions, but because MeFi is a left-leaning site, we have more lefty ones than righties although they're equally tedious and tiresome) must have either impoverished imaginations or totally obsessive mindsets. But whatever the reason they make the site less fun and enlightening.
posted by jonmc at 5:40 PM on December 27, 2004
These kind of people (and they come in all political persuasions, but because MeFi is a left-leaning site, we have more lefty ones than righties although they're equally tedious and tiresome) must have either impoverished imaginations or totally obsessive mindsets. But whatever the reason they make the site less fun and enlightening.
posted by jonmc at 5:40 PM on December 27, 2004
There's people here who, if you put about a thread about breakfast cereals would comment "I had Alpha Bits yesterday and when I poured in the milk they spelled out 'Bush Is Evil."
Yeah, but, see, that'd be funny. The first 3700 times, at least.
stavros: I didn't realize you can spin such pretty yarn. In appreciation I'm sending you a good read I giggled over this morning.
Er, I'm legendarily poor at picking up on statements that carry any sort of nuance, semmi. I'm left scratching my head, I'm embarrassed to admit.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:03 PM on December 27, 2004
Yeah, but, see, that'd be funny. The first 3700 times, at least.
stavros: I didn't realize you can spin such pretty yarn. In appreciation I'm sending you a good read I giggled over this morning.
Er, I'm legendarily poor at picking up on statements that carry any sort of nuance, semmi. I'm left scratching my head, I'm embarrassed to admit.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:03 PM on December 27, 2004
Oh, and y2karl, I get the sense that you'd rather people such as me and dhoyt didn't voice our opinions of other user's statements because they disturb you somehow. If anyone here is trying to initiate a "conspiracy of silence," it looks like it's you.
posted by jonmc at 6:08 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by jonmc at 6:08 PM on December 27, 2004
Yeah, but, see, that'd be funny.
Therein lies the rub, staverino. Most of the one-track-mind dead horsebeater obsessives are neither funny nor articulate. On the contrary most of them are painfully witless cretins with nary a dollop of writing skill.
posted by jonmc at 6:10 PM on December 27, 2004
Therein lies the rub, staverino. Most of the one-track-mind dead horsebeater obsessives are neither funny nor articulate. On the contrary most of them are painfully witless cretins with nary a dollop of writing skill.
posted by jonmc at 6:10 PM on December 27, 2004
Answer: people need to blame everything on someone, and the top dog's leader is the easiest target. It goes with the territory.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:11 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by ParisParamus at 6:11 PM on December 27, 2004
PP, step off the bandwagon, because you're near the top of the list of the axgrinding horsebutchers.
posted by jonmc at 6:23 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by jonmc at 6:23 PM on December 27, 2004
Nut'n'honey.
posted by rev_crash_davis at 7:16 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by rev_crash_davis at 7:16 PM on December 27, 2004
You obviously have trouble paying attention,
You are right--I did not click on that link.
seeing as how my first comment to this very thread condemns a wingnutty comment about Islam.
No, it did not condemn it. It merely noted it in a figleaf to your central theme, which is the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy Of Silence at MetaFilter as in Why do so few seem to be bothered by it?
Yes, Senator Dole, Where is the outrage ?
I have questions, too: Why are so few people upset by what I am upset about ? What's wrong with them ? Why are they such hypocrites when they know I am right ?
But I don't make MetaTalk posts out of them.
ps. jonmc, your comments to me and Paris Paramus here really do not reflect well on your reading comprehension.
posted by y2karl at 7:31 PM on December 27, 2004
You are right--I did not click on that link.
seeing as how my first comment to this very thread condemns a wingnutty comment about Islam.
No, it did not condemn it. It merely noted it in a figleaf to your central theme, which is the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy Of Silence at MetaFilter as in Why do so few seem to be bothered by it?
Yes, Senator Dole, Where is the outrage ?
I have questions, too: Why are so few people upset by what I am upset about ? What's wrong with them ? Why are they such hypocrites when they know I am right ?
But I don't make MetaTalk posts out of them.
ps. jonmc, your comments to me and Paris Paramus here really do not reflect well on your reading comprehension.
posted by y2karl at 7:31 PM on December 27, 2004
People make all sorts of stupid comments here all the time. It's kind of hypocritical to get so bent out of shape about one sort and ignore or minimize the rest. Constantly ax grinding about your particular unfavorite ax grinding is ax grinding. Like it or lump it, the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy of Silence is your ax to grind.
posted by y2karl at 7:43 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by y2karl at 7:43 PM on December 27, 2004
y2karl, you've managed to project your own issues onto dhoyt's theme, diagnose my reading abilities, and basically provide enjoyment for yourself by hearing yourself talk. In short, you've done everything but address the meat of the issue he's getting at: that there's a contingent of people here who will use any topic as an excuse to go off about American politics,or in other words, to use the site as their personal soapbox, to axgrind, something matt has explicitly decried.
Me I expanded on dhoyts theme, by allowing that others will drag other cutlery, like terrorists, fundy christians, etc, to the wheel whenever the opportunity arises. I think even you should be able to grasp that the above does happen on this site and that it degrades the mefi experience.
And then I enjoyed some humorous banter with krrlson and crash. Mea culpa.
Did you comprehend my paragraph or do I have to drag out the handpuppets?
On preview, I decry axgrinding from all quarters here. Your glib dismissal of it reveals more about you than anything else.
posted by jonmc at 7:45 PM on December 27, 2004
Me I expanded on dhoyts theme, by allowing that others will drag other cutlery, like terrorists, fundy christians, etc, to the wheel whenever the opportunity arises. I think even you should be able to grasp that the above does happen on this site and that it degrades the mefi experience.
And then I enjoyed some humorous banter with krrlson and crash. Mea culpa.
Did you comprehend my paragraph or do I have to drag out the handpuppets?
On preview, I decry axgrinding from all quarters here. Your glib dismissal of it reveals more about you than anything else.
posted by jonmc at 7:45 PM on December 27, 2004
Yes, Senator Dole, Where is the outrage ?
Asking, "Does anyone else hate this kind of derail?" != "Senator Dole"
That's really, really stupid, karl. And desperate, and over the top.
Vast Left Wing Conspiracy of Silence
For the nth time, I have no idea what that tag is supposed to mean. I really would have thought better of you than to break things down in Left vs. Right, and so forth. This has to do with one kind of derail I see a lot. So I posted about it. You see another kind? Post about it. No one's stopping you.
I'll say it again: email me if you have a personal problem, which you obviously do. Enough people of all political persuasions have agreed with me in this thread which leads me to think I wasn't exactly imagining a "Virgin Mary in a cheese sandwich"--so get over it. I doubt anyone's interested in hearing us bicker any further.
You sure are full of piss, vinegar, cartoonish hyperbole, and....other things tonight, eh?
posted by dhoyt at 7:50 PM on December 27, 2004
Asking, "Does anyone else hate this kind of derail?" != "Senator Dole"
That's really, really stupid, karl. And desperate, and over the top.
Vast Left Wing Conspiracy of Silence
For the nth time, I have no idea what that tag is supposed to mean. I really would have thought better of you than to break things down in Left vs. Right, and so forth. This has to do with one kind of derail I see a lot. So I posted about it. You see another kind? Post about it. No one's stopping you.
I'll say it again: email me if you have a personal problem, which you obviously do. Enough people of all political persuasions have agreed with me in this thread which leads me to think I wasn't exactly imagining a "Virgin Mary in a cheese sandwich"--so get over it. I doubt anyone's interested in hearing us bicker any further.
You sure are full of piss, vinegar, cartoonish hyperbole, and....other things tonight, eh?
posted by dhoyt at 7:50 PM on December 27, 2004
WTF is up with the "blame the U.S. media/government" derail which occurs every time there's a disaster abroad? Why do so few seem to be bothered by it?
Here are a few notes for you:
1. Blaming the media and blaming the government are not the same thing in this context, so your pairing of them is inappropriate.
2. Blame? Odd choice of word there. I don't think anybody blamed the media for any natural disasters. They simply pointed out how inept and ethnocentric your abhorrent, useless mainstream media types are.
3. It's true (when levelled correctly, not in the terms you did). Why would it bother me?
On preview, I decry axgrinding from all quarters here. Your glib dismissal of it reveals more about you than anything else.
Yes, you do. Constantly. Ad nausuem. To the point of absurdity, even, where it seems like you're McCarthy chasing commie ghosts in the shadows. It's all you seem to talk about lately; it's almost like you're grinding your own axe...
-----
Is anyone else as tired of the phrase "axe-grinding" as I am?
posted by The God Complex at 7:53 PM on December 27, 2004
Here are a few notes for you:
1. Blaming the media and blaming the government are not the same thing in this context, so your pairing of them is inappropriate.
2. Blame? Odd choice of word there. I don't think anybody blamed the media for any natural disasters. They simply pointed out how inept and ethnocentric your abhorrent, useless mainstream media types are.
3. It's true (when levelled correctly, not in the terms you did). Why would it bother me?
On preview, I decry axgrinding from all quarters here. Your glib dismissal of it reveals more about you than anything else.
Yes, you do. Constantly. Ad nausuem. To the point of absurdity, even, where it seems like you're McCarthy chasing commie ghosts in the shadows. It's all you seem to talk about lately; it's almost like you're grinding your own axe...
-----
Is anyone else as tired of the phrase "axe-grinding" as I am?
posted by The God Complex at 7:53 PM on December 27, 2004
Dhoyt and y2k I quite like both of you, and am also often annoyed by both of you, and so I must say: you've got more than a name in common.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:53 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:53 PM on December 27, 2004
(I should also note that I'm referring to the comments about the inept media in the U.S., not the strange ones about how mother nature is out to get us because of the United States, which were thoroughly discussed in the thread and are, I assume, not the central point of discussion for this thread...)
posted by The God Complex at 7:54 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by The God Complex at 7:54 PM on December 27, 2004
It's all you seem to talk about lately; it's almost like you're grinding your own axe...
Perhaps. Or maybe I care about what it's doing to the site. You obviously differ.
Is anyone else as tired of the phrase "axe-grinding" as I am?
I'd say "unhealthy obsession," and "sanctimonious prattling," but they dont have the same tangy zip.
posted by jonmc at 7:58 PM on December 27, 2004
Perhaps. Or maybe I care about what it's doing to the site. You obviously differ.
Is anyone else as tired of the phrase "axe-grinding" as I am?
I'd say "unhealthy obsession," and "sanctimonious prattling," but they dont have the same tangy zip.
posted by jonmc at 7:58 PM on December 27, 2004
Is anyone else as tired of the phrase "axe-grinding" as I am?
Take it to AxMe.
*badump-tish*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:02 PM on December 27, 2004
Take it to AxMe.
*badump-tish*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:02 PM on December 27, 2004
Perhaps. Or maybe I care about what it's doing to the site. You obviously differ.
I just think it's not much different than it's ever been; what's more, I'd suggest the political rhetoric has cooled down a bunch in the past two months. The complaining about it, however, is as prevalanet as ever, for whatever reason.
Also, it doesn't matter how much you care. That's why *shudder* axe-grinders do. They care, care, care! They care so much they need to run and tell everyone else so that they care. I don't know how you fail to see the parallel between people's axe-grinding complains and the axe-grinding they complain about. I simply happen to be more annoyed by the complaints, but I try to complain about the complaints as rarely as possible, lest I fall into the axe-grinding deathloop.
posted by The God Complex at 8:11 PM on December 27, 2004
I just think it's not much different than it's ever been; what's more, I'd suggest the political rhetoric has cooled down a bunch in the past two months. The complaining about it, however, is as prevalanet as ever, for whatever reason.
Also, it doesn't matter how much you care. That's why *shudder* axe-grinders do. They care, care, care! They care so much they need to run and tell everyone else so that they care. I don't know how you fail to see the parallel between people's axe-grinding complains and the axe-grinding they complain about. I simply happen to be more annoyed by the complaints, but I try to complain about the complaints as rarely as possible, lest I fall into the axe-grinding deathloop.
posted by The God Complex at 8:11 PM on December 27, 2004
Also, it doesn't matter how much you care.
Well, maybe, just one of the cutlery-sharpening contingent might someday wake up and say to themselves, "self, I am a boring, pedantic, sactimonious twit so obsessed with republicans/democrats/christians/muslims/the Detroit Lions that I never bothered to have a life and made everybody miserable."
That and people just say stupid shit, and that stupid shit needs to be called what it is.
posted by jonmc at 8:17 PM on December 27, 2004
Well, maybe, just one of the cutlery-sharpening contingent might someday wake up and say to themselves, "self, I am a boring, pedantic, sactimonious twit so obsessed with republicans/democrats/christians/muslims/the Detroit Lions that I never bothered to have a life and made everybody miserable."
That and people just say stupid shit, and that stupid shit needs to be called what it is.
posted by jonmc at 8:17 PM on December 27, 2004
oooh. maybe the Metafilter Left is now having a civil war! Yummy!
posted by ParisParamus at 8:24 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by ParisParamus at 8:24 PM on December 27, 2004
semmi - thanks! That was worth this whole lame argument.
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:37 PM on December 27, 2004
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:37 PM on December 27, 2004
I find it childish and tiresome myself. However, I don't feel the need to comment obsessively on every damned thing I find tiresome and/or childish on MeFi.
Note, for example, that I rarely comment on dhoyt's stupid snarks. And even though I agree with dhoyt here, I believe it just shows that even the stopped clock is right^H^H^ correct twice a day.
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:41 PM on December 27, 2004
Note, for example, that I rarely comment on dhoyt's stupid snarks. And even though I agree with dhoyt here, I believe it just shows that even the stopped clock is right^H^H^ correct twice a day.
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:41 PM on December 27, 2004
Or maybe I care about what it's doing to the site.
You might keep this in mind next time I point out yet another gratuitous personal attack you make on nofundy or fold_&_mutilate when they have said nothing about you. purely personal attacks add nothing good for the site.
As for you, dhoyt, here I've pointed out what I see as a perfect example of a constantly recurring theme in your complaints: Why do so few seem to be bothered by it? is just about the same question as Where is the outrage? In either question, a Conspiracy of Silence is implied.
In return you have let loose here with a string of demeaning pejoratives and personal attacks. In this thread I have not described you negatively or impugned your motives. I merely have pointed out that you are, at least in part, beating the same old dead horse you've beaten so many times before. It's always some outrageous left wing statement that people here are being hypocrites about when they ignore it.
You chose to focus on your outrage du jour here and I chose to focus on the perennial implication that we who are not outraged by your outrage du jour are somehow being unfair and hypocritical in not condemning your outrage du jour because we are just not that outraged by it as you.
posted by y2karl at 9:08 PM on December 27, 2004
You might keep this in mind next time I point out yet another gratuitous personal attack you make on nofundy or fold_&_mutilate when they have said nothing about you. purely personal attacks add nothing good for the site.
As for you, dhoyt, here I've pointed out what I see as a perfect example of a constantly recurring theme in your complaints: Why do so few seem to be bothered by it? is just about the same question as Where is the outrage? In either question, a Conspiracy of Silence is implied.
In return you have let loose here with a string of demeaning pejoratives and personal attacks. In this thread I have not described you negatively or impugned your motives. I merely have pointed out that you are, at least in part, beating the same old dead horse you've beaten so many times before. It's always some outrageous left wing statement that people here are being hypocrites about when they ignore it.
You chose to focus on your outrage du jour here and I chose to focus on the perennial implication that we who are not outraged by your outrage du jour are somehow being unfair and hypocritical in not condemning your outrage du jour because we are just not that outraged by it as you.
posted by y2karl at 9:08 PM on December 27, 2004
Okay, now I am singing "Where is the outrage?" to the tune of "O Come, All Ye Faithful" (a/k/a "Why are we waiting?")--
Where is the outrage?
Where is the outrage?
Where is the outrage?
Where, where, where?
Where is the outrage?
I'm looking for the outrage
Oh, say, where is the outrage?
Hey, you, where is the outrage?
I wonder if the outrage is
There, there, there?
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:40 PM on December 27, 2004
Where is the outrage?
Where is the outrage?
Where is the outrage?
Where, where, where?
Where is the outrage?
I'm looking for the outrage
Oh, say, where is the outrage?
Hey, you, where is the outrage?
I wonder if the outrage is
There, there, there?
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:40 PM on December 27, 2004
"And now as the lights dim we conclude our Candlelight Service tonight by raising our egos on high and singing Joy to the World together . . ."
JOY TO THE WORLD!
I'VE FOUND THE OUTRAGE!
OUR PRE-SI-DENT . . . IS BAD!
LET EVERY MEFITE, FIND THEIR OWN OUTRAGE!
AND WANK OFF IN MeTa!
AND WANK OFF IN MeTa!
AND WAAaaaAAANK AND WAaaaaNK OFF IN MEeeeTA!
posted by Ryvar at 10:54 PM on December 27, 2004
JOY TO THE WORLD!
I'VE FOUND THE OUTRAGE!
OUR PRE-SI-DENT . . . IS BAD!
LET EVERY MEFITE, FIND THEIR OWN OUTRAGE!
AND WANK OFF IN MeTa!
AND WANK OFF IN MeTa!
AND WAAaaaAAANK AND WAaaaaNK OFF IN MEeeeTA!
posted by Ryvar at 10:54 PM on December 27, 2004
that was beautiful, Ryvar. Beautiful.
posted by puke & cry at 1:14 AM on December 28, 2004
posted by puke & cry at 1:14 AM on December 28, 2004
Well, again, if I had posted such a comment to the thread, it wouldn't have been contrived but a genuine relfection of my thoughts at the time. I was very disapointed when I turned on the tv to get the up-to-date coverage. So much so that I've been resistant to watch the coverage today, which has been, as said earlier, wall-to-wall. Irrational of me, but true.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:15 AM on December 28, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:15 AM on December 28, 2004
Talking about axes to grind, or propaganda to, uh, propagate: check out ParisParamus' nuanced contribution to an askme thread about buying new shoes....
9-11, lest we forget as we shop for shoes
Because you know, the world, and shoe shopping, has never been the same since 9-11!
posted by sic at 3:34 AM on December 28, 2004
9-11, lest we forget as we shop for shoes
Because you know, the world, and shoe shopping, has never been the same since 9-11!
posted by sic at 3:34 AM on December 28, 2004
On preview, I decry axgrinding from all quarters here. Your glib dismissal of it reveals more about you than anything else.
posted by jonmc at 7:45 PM PST on December 27
Except your own, of course.
posted by sic at 3:38 AM on December 28, 2004
posted by jonmc at 7:45 PM PST on December 27
Except your own, of course.
posted by sic at 3:38 AM on December 28, 2004
> Just as some people see the Virgin Mary in a cheese sandwich, dhoyt
> sees a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy of Silence in every unremarked
> upon non sequitur on MetaFilter.
Don't take it personally, y2. No one, no one, would ever connect you with any sort of conspiracy of silence. You're like totally off the hook.
posted by jfuller at 8:11 AM on December 28, 2004
> sees a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy of Silence in every unremarked
> upon non sequitur on MetaFilter.
Don't take it personally, y2. No one, no one, would ever connect you with any sort of conspiracy of silence. You're like totally off the hook.
posted by jfuller at 8:11 AM on December 28, 2004
So if dhoyt wears boxer shorts and y2karl wears briefs--what does jfuller wear?
Depends....
posted by y2karl at 9:04 AM on December 28, 2004
Depends....
posted by y2karl at 9:04 AM on December 28, 2004
Do I get to complain about dhoyt's homophobia on this thread?
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:13 AM on December 28, 2004
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:13 AM on December 28, 2004
Is calling someone a drama queen offensive to gays? Could someone explain that one to me?
posted by euphorb at 10:12 AM on December 28, 2004
posted by euphorb at 10:12 AM on December 28, 2004
I suppose 'queen' is one of those words that only the community can use on its own members. From outsiders it's a slur.
posted by darukaru at 10:16 AM on December 28, 2004
posted by darukaru at 10:16 AM on December 28, 2004
However, "asshole," "dipshit," "tightass" and "shit-for-brains," are available and apllicable to anyone.
Use them at your leisure.
posted by jonmc at 10:32 AM on December 28, 2004
Use them at your leisure.
posted by jonmc at 10:32 AM on December 28, 2004
Do I get to complain about dhoyt's homophobia on this thread?
You've got to be kidding.
posted by dhoyt at 10:47 AM on December 28, 2004
You've got to be kidding.
posted by dhoyt at 10:47 AM on December 28, 2004
However, "asshole," "dipshit," "tightass" and "shit-for-brains," are available and apllicable to anyone.
Don't for get about "cockface."
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:01 AM on December 28, 2004
Don't for get about "cockface."
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:01 AM on December 28, 2004
I'm fairly certain that the phrase "drama queen" predates the pejorative usage of the word "queen" toward members of the gay community. As such, this seems like grasping for straws, when there are more suitable and effective means of attacking dhoyt's inherent personality flaws.
posted by Danelope at 11:13 AM on December 28, 2004
posted by Danelope at 11:13 AM on December 28, 2004
You can also, in certain contexts, get away with 'cracker', 'hillbilly', and 'redneck', but absolutely not 'white trash'. (I remember sudama jumping all over someone for that one.)
Also, any derivations of 'fatty' are generally safe.
posted by darukaru at 11:15 AM on December 28, 2004
Also, any derivations of 'fatty' are generally safe.
posted by darukaru at 11:15 AM on December 28, 2004
On reflection, it's probably safest to avoid all colloquialisms at this point.
posted by darukaru at 11:16 AM on December 28, 2004
posted by darukaru at 11:16 AM on December 28, 2004
However, "asshole," "dipshit," "tightass" and "shit-for-brains," are available and apllicable to anyone.
Don't for get about "cockface."
Ha ha ha, omg, that shit is funny! *wipes tear* where do you guys come up with this stuff?
This place is better than a comedy club.
posted by sic at 11:50 AM on December 28, 2004
Don't for get about "cockface."
Ha ha ha, omg, that shit is funny! *wipes tear* where do you guys come up with this stuff?
This place is better than a comedy club.
posted by sic at 11:50 AM on December 28, 2004
What, sic, you don't see the absurdity in all of us deciding what are "bad words?"
I only wish George Carlin was a mefite, so he could dissect this mess.
posted by jonmc at 12:17 PM on December 28, 2004
I only wish George Carlin was a mefite, so he could dissect this mess.
posted by jonmc at 12:17 PM on December 28, 2004
Do I get to complain about dhoyt's homophobia on this thread?
No, but you do get to choke on a bucket of cocks. Bon appetit.
posted by Krrrlson at 12:18 PM on December 28, 2004
No, but you do get to choke on a bucket of cocks. Bon appetit.
posted by Krrrlson at 12:18 PM on December 28, 2004
BUCKET OF COCKS! HA HA HA HA!
Stop already! You guys are going to give me a heart attack!
posted by sic at 12:26 PM on December 28, 2004
Stop already! You guys are going to give me a heart attack!
posted by sic at 12:26 PM on December 28, 2004
Take some bayer.
Do you have an actual argument or are you just going to point and laugh?
posted by jonmc at 12:29 PM on December 28, 2004
Do you have an actual argument or are you just going to point and laugh?
posted by jonmc at 12:29 PM on December 28, 2004
Well, just for the record, I think dhoyt's first question was valid and he did note the Muslims getting divine retribution theme as well.
He did note it but, to him, the thread was all about WTF? with the America bashing. The comments that bothered him were idiotic as were the ones that bothered him far less. So, too, were his attempts to moderate the thread here to suit his particular bias.
As TGC wrote:
I don't know how you fail to see the parallel between people's axe-grinding complaints and the axe-grinding they complain about. I simply happen to be more annoyed by the complaints, but I try to complain about the complaints as rarely as possible, lest I fall into the axe-grinding deathloop.
We all look at each other through the wrong end of the telescope here. Or microscope, if you prefer. Why do so few seem to be bothered by it ? was what annoyed me. Apart from that, however, the first question was not without merit.
posted by y2karl at 12:36 PM on December 28, 2004
He did note it but, to him, the thread was all about WTF? with the America bashing. The comments that bothered him were idiotic as were the ones that bothered him far less. So, too, were his attempts to moderate the thread here to suit his particular bias.
As TGC wrote:
I don't know how you fail to see the parallel between people's axe-grinding complaints and the axe-grinding they complain about. I simply happen to be more annoyed by the complaints, but I try to complain about the complaints as rarely as possible, lest I fall into the axe-grinding deathloop.
We all look at each other through the wrong end of the telescope here. Or microscope, if you prefer. Why do so few seem to be bothered by it ? was what annoyed me. Apart from that, however, the first question was not without merit.
posted by y2karl at 12:36 PM on December 28, 2004
"I'm going into rehab because I use too much wine and Vicodin," [George] Carlin, 67, whose latest book "When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops?" is a current national bestseller, said in a statement.
posted by euphorb at 1:15 PM on December 28, 2004
posted by euphorb at 1:15 PM on December 28, 2004
I am sure that is somehow germane.
And for the record, as far as I am concerned, dhoyt is neither homophobe or racist, nor is Ethereal Bligh. The problem about such accusations is its always that guy over there--my experience is that people never accuse their buddies or those they know of such sins. We all make ourselves right by making other people wrong--but nitpicking over stuff like drama queen or brown people is a bit much. I once got on my high horse over something jfuller wrote and even made a MetaTalk post about its unseemly racist implications--for which I later apologized. The bar should set very high for such accusations.
posted by y2karl at 2:04 PM on December 28, 2004
And for the record, as far as I am concerned, dhoyt is neither homophobe or racist, nor is Ethereal Bligh. The problem about such accusations is its always that guy over there--my experience is that people never accuse their buddies or those they know of such sins. We all make ourselves right by making other people wrong--but nitpicking over stuff like drama queen or brown people is a bit much. I once got on my high horse over something jfuller wrote and even made a MetaTalk post about its unseemly racist implications--for which I later apologized. The bar should set very high for such accusations.
posted by y2karl at 2:04 PM on December 28, 2004
Thanks for the comments, karl. FWIW, I'm not trying to moderate the thread, I'm responding to perceived derail comments which have nothing to do with the topic. This is something I've been guilty of too, I realize, etc etc. But before you kept questioning my motives, I had been prepared to let the thread proceed without anymore of my input. As I said before, email me if need be to save everyone from having to hear all this.
The sentence, "Why do so few seem to be bothered by it?", is basically meant to say: Look, many of us are moderates here, or moderate-Left. Why the hell should we tolerate lazy hyperbolic types which help paint the rest of us as fools by association? Shouldn't more people want to step in and say, "Guys, 27,0000 people just died, take your shameless, one-note 'It's all America's Fault' perspective and shove it." Is it weird to me that more people don't say that? Sorry, but yeah, it's weird. So I spoke up.
I guess the way I've always perceived it is that it's not fashionable to say such a thing because it 1) appears patriotic, and 2) goes against the collective MeFi political grain. I've had a problem with 'fashionable thinking' since I was old enough to recognize what it is, and I feel like I see it on MeFi every bit as much as in real life. (Ism recently had a good comment on a similar them here). People mold or exaggerate their opinions so that others will say, "Yeah, that guy's on my side!" It's really transparent, no?
posted by dhoyt at 2:36 PM on December 28, 2004
The sentence, "Why do so few seem to be bothered by it?", is basically meant to say: Look, many of us are moderates here, or moderate-Left. Why the hell should we tolerate lazy hyperbolic types which help paint the rest of us as fools by association? Shouldn't more people want to step in and say, "Guys, 27,0000 people just died, take your shameless, one-note 'It's all America's Fault' perspective and shove it." Is it weird to me that more people don't say that? Sorry, but yeah, it's weird. So I spoke up.
I guess the way I've always perceived it is that it's not fashionable to say such a thing because it 1) appears patriotic, and 2) goes against the collective MeFi political grain. I've had a problem with 'fashionable thinking' since I was old enough to recognize what it is, and I feel like I see it on MeFi every bit as much as in real life. (Ism recently had a good comment on a similar them here). People mold or exaggerate their opinions so that others will say, "Yeah, that guy's on my side!" It's really transparent, no?
posted by dhoyt at 2:36 PM on December 28, 2004
Oh, and until he tells us otherwise, I think it's safe to assume AlexReynolds' non-sequitirious comments were a joke. I refuse to believe any adult would categorize "drama queenery" as homophobic.
posted by dhoyt at 2:43 PM on December 28, 2004
posted by dhoyt at 2:43 PM on December 28, 2004
and I feel like I see it on MeFi every bit as much as in real life
What TGC said about ax grinding about ax grinding, all the same.
Attaboys abound on all sides--not just from the left. What you see as group think is more an artifact of perception--the filters through which you see all the other individuals here. The comments by people with whom we disagree more are far more irritating than the comments of the people with whom we disagree less. There is no group or cabal here, only individuals in individual rooms with the capacity to type whatever comes into their heads into the preview box and then hit post without ever giving it a second thought until it's too late.
posted by y2karl at 3:12 PM on December 28, 2004
What TGC said about ax grinding about ax grinding, all the same.
Attaboys abound on all sides--not just from the left. What you see as group think is more an artifact of perception--the filters through which you see all the other individuals here. The comments by people with whom we disagree more are far more irritating than the comments of the people with whom we disagree less. There is no group or cabal here, only individuals in individual rooms with the capacity to type whatever comes into their heads into the preview box and then hit post without ever giving it a second thought until it's too late.
posted by y2karl at 3:12 PM on December 28, 2004
Do you have an actual argument or are you just going to point and laugh?
Um, yeah, I was considering it.
About me: imploding mucus head, high as a kite on cold medicine, three hours away from next fix, desperate for entertainment.
About you: entertaining, acerbic, generally looking for an outlet for your seemingly endless exasperation.
Me, you, here together: let's make it happen!
posted by sic at 3:17 PM on December 28, 2004
Um, yeah, I was considering it.
About me: imploding mucus head, high as a kite on cold medicine, three hours away from next fix, desperate for entertainment.
About you: entertaining, acerbic, generally looking for an outlet for your seemingly endless exasperation.
Me, you, here together: let's make it happen!
posted by sic at 3:17 PM on December 28, 2004
About me: imploding mucus head, high as a kite on cold medicine, three hours away from next fix, desperate for entertainment.
There's a blue light special on Trailertrash Talking With Davy in aisle 8715.
posted by y2karl at 3:22 PM on December 28, 2004
There's a blue light special on Trailertrash Talking With Davy in aisle 8715.
posted by y2karl at 3:22 PM on December 28, 2004
About you: entertaining, acerbic, generally looking for an outlet for your seemingly endless exasperation.
Exasperation may be the central leitmotif of our time, sic. Or merely a sign of my generation's impending middle-age.
The comments by people with whom we disagree more are far more irritating than the comments of the people with whom we disagree less.
I dunno, karl, sometimes there's people I agree with here who I find so annoying that they make me wish I didn't, if you know what I mean.
But, I've kinda come to the conclusion that sometimes a simple "Give it a rest," will eliminate what a MeTa thread seems to exacerbate.
And dhoyt may be riding this horse a little too hard but I believe his hearts in the right place. And he's had my back on occasions when no one else did, so I feel obliged to stick up for him.
posted by jonmc at 3:56 PM on December 28, 2004
Exasperation may be the central leitmotif of our time, sic. Or merely a sign of my generation's impending middle-age.
The comments by people with whom we disagree more are far more irritating than the comments of the people with whom we disagree less.
I dunno, karl, sometimes there's people I agree with here who I find so annoying that they make me wish I didn't, if you know what I mean.
But, I've kinda come to the conclusion that sometimes a simple "Give it a rest," will eliminate what a MeTa thread seems to exacerbate.
And dhoyt may be riding this horse a little too hard but I believe his hearts in the right place. And he's had my back on occasions when no one else did, so I feel obliged to stick up for him.
posted by jonmc at 3:56 PM on December 28, 2004
Oh, and until he tells us otherwise, I think it's safe to assume AlexReynolds' non-sequitirious comments were a joke.
So you start a thread about complaining about what others say, but when you insult a gay man with an insult reserved for gay people, there's apparently no inconsistency to you or anyone else.
You're a homophobe, as near as I can tell, and you've just graduated to hypocrite, as well.
I refuse to believe any adult would categorize "drama queenery" as homophobic.
It sucks when the real world doesn't jibe with your bigotry, doesn't it.
Nice ad hominem, by the way; you are so cool!
posted by AlexReynolds at 4:31 PM on December 28, 2004
So you start a thread about complaining about what others say, but when you insult a gay man with an insult reserved for gay people, there's apparently no inconsistency to you or anyone else.
You're a homophobe, as near as I can tell, and you've just graduated to hypocrite, as well.
I refuse to believe any adult would categorize "drama queenery" as homophobic.
It sucks when the real world doesn't jibe with your bigotry, doesn't it.
Nice ad hominem, by the way; you are so cool!
posted by AlexReynolds at 4:31 PM on December 28, 2004
It sucks when the real world doesn't jibe with your bigotry, doesn't it.
Alex, (and I'm not trying to bait you here, I swear), the case hasn't completely been made that that's the case. Let's assume for the state of argument, that offensive language is determined by wide consensus rather than executive fiat. Otherwise, I could say that as an irish-american, I'm offended by Notre Dame's football team. No, I'm obviously perfectly free to be offended and say so, but should the world be obliged to act accordingly?
Now, right after the "drama queen," controversy hit the fan, I asked two gay coworkers, both very outspoken guys, if they thought the phrase was a slur. They both said no, and one added "anybody can be a drama queen, I use it all the time."
No, dhoyt may not like you, personally, but that's between you and him. But he's never given any indication of being a homophobe. Or at least he's no more prejudiced than anyone else here. And I stand by my belief that there's nary a person on earth of any race, ethicity, gender or persuasion, who's entirely free of bigotry. So, it's kind of unfair to keep hammering away at him.
posted by jonmc at 4:41 PM on December 28, 2004
Alex, (and I'm not trying to bait you here, I swear), the case hasn't completely been made that that's the case. Let's assume for the state of argument, that offensive language is determined by wide consensus rather than executive fiat. Otherwise, I could say that as an irish-american, I'm offended by Notre Dame's football team. No, I'm obviously perfectly free to be offended and say so, but should the world be obliged to act accordingly?
Now, right after the "drama queen," controversy hit the fan, I asked two gay coworkers, both very outspoken guys, if they thought the phrase was a slur. They both said no, and one added "anybody can be a drama queen, I use it all the time."
No, dhoyt may not like you, personally, but that's between you and him. But he's never given any indication of being a homophobe. Or at least he's no more prejudiced than anyone else here. And I stand by my belief that there's nary a person on earth of any race, ethicity, gender or persuasion, who's entirely free of bigotry. So, it's kind of unfair to keep hammering away at him.
posted by jonmc at 4:41 PM on December 28, 2004
Dhoyt just dismounted jonmc, Alex.
Where the fuck were you?
posted by sic at 4:53 PM on December 28, 2004
Where the fuck were you?
posted by sic at 4:53 PM on December 28, 2004
Otherwise, I could say that as an irish-american, I'm offended by Notre Dame's football team. No, I'm obviously perfectly free to be offended and say so, but should the world be obliged to act accordingly?
I already expressed offense and I don't expect the bigot to apologize.
But I do want to give people a taste of what this asshole is about and why this thread is shit, for that same reason.
And, jonmc, I think I'm in a better position than you do determine what's offensive to a gay man. Where we might often call each other derogatory names, straight people lost their fag privileges years ago.
I really can't believe I need to explain this in the 21st C. but a straight man using the term "drama queen", "fairy", "flamer", "bender", "poof", what have you, to describe a gay man in a derogatory manner is not the same as a gay man using the same terms. It's called context and dhoyt doesn't have the benefit of context.
It is offensive, and if dhoyt complains about the content of a thread he'd better be "adult" enough to handle complaints against him for the same reasons.
Is this clear enough?
posted by AlexReynolds at 5:17 PM on December 28, 2004
I already expressed offense and I don't expect the bigot to apologize.
But I do want to give people a taste of what this asshole is about and why this thread is shit, for that same reason.
And, jonmc, I think I'm in a better position than you do determine what's offensive to a gay man. Where we might often call each other derogatory names, straight people lost their fag privileges years ago.
I really can't believe I need to explain this in the 21st C. but a straight man using the term "drama queen", "fairy", "flamer", "bender", "poof", what have you, to describe a gay man in a derogatory manner is not the same as a gay man using the same terms. It's called context and dhoyt doesn't have the benefit of context.
It is offensive, and if dhoyt complains about the content of a thread he'd better be "adult" enough to handle complaints against him for the same reasons.
Is this clear enough?
posted by AlexReynolds at 5:17 PM on December 28, 2004
I really can't believe I need to explain this in the 21st C. but a straight man using the term "drama queen", "fairy", "flamer", "bender", "poof", what have you, to describe a gay man in a derogatory manner is not the same as a gay man using the same terms.
Despite what you might think, alex, I'm not an idiot. I fully understand the concept of context, alex, the other half of my ethnic heritage is italian-american and both me and my relatives have been known to refer to someone acting stereotypically "eye-talian" as a guinea, guido or a greaseball.
But as I said before, offensive language is not determined by executive fiat, and frank discussion is neccessary to acheive consesus. By bringing my freinds opinions into it, I'm positing the idea that someone might see things differently from you.
And for instance, what if "drama queen" is being used to describe a woman, or a straight man? One night I was bitching loudly about my back pain, and my girlfreind said "stop being such a drama queen?" Is that ok?
Mine, and I imagine most peoples gripes with this kind of linguistic policing is that the rules so often seem arbitrary and capricious based on who's laying them down. That's a topic worthy of frank discussion, as far as I'm concerned.
posted by jonmc at 5:29 PM on December 28, 2004
Despite what you might think, alex, I'm not an idiot. I fully understand the concept of context, alex, the other half of my ethnic heritage is italian-american and both me and my relatives have been known to refer to someone acting stereotypically "eye-talian" as a guinea, guido or a greaseball.
But as I said before, offensive language is not determined by executive fiat, and frank discussion is neccessary to acheive consesus. By bringing my freinds opinions into it, I'm positing the idea that someone might see things differently from you.
And for instance, what if "drama queen" is being used to describe a woman, or a straight man? One night I was bitching loudly about my back pain, and my girlfreind said "stop being such a drama queen?" Is that ok?
Mine, and I imagine most peoples gripes with this kind of linguistic policing is that the rules so often seem arbitrary and capricious based on who's laying them down. That's a topic worthy of frank discussion, as far as I'm concerned.
posted by jonmc at 5:29 PM on December 28, 2004
It is offensive, and if dhoyt complains about the content of a thread he'd better be "adult" enough to handle complaints against him for the same reasons.
Is this clear enough?
posted by AlexReynolds at 5:30 PM on December 28, 2004
Is this clear enough?
posted by AlexReynolds at 5:30 PM on December 28, 2004
again, alex, that's one person deciding what terminology that an entire community can use. And you managed to avoid the questions in the rest of my post quite deftly.
While your point about about dhoyt being willing to endure the slings and arrows of exercising his right to speak is well taken, you should do well to remember the same thing yourself.
posted by jonmc at 5:33 PM on December 28, 2004
While your point about about dhoyt being willing to endure the slings and arrows of exercising his right to speak is well taken, you should do well to remember the same thing yourself.
posted by jonmc at 5:33 PM on December 28, 2004
You're all a bunch of big DRAMA QUEENS!
posted by Dreamghost at 5:59 PM on December 28, 2004
posted by Dreamghost at 5:59 PM on December 28, 2004
Let's assume for the state of argument, that offensive language is determined by wide consensus rather than executive fiat. Otherwise, I could say that as an irish-american, I'm offended by Notre Dame's football team. No, I'm obviously perfectly free to be offended and say so, but should the world be obliged to act accordingly?
You have a very niggardly attitude toward the potential for language to offend. It's quite the gyp.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:02 PM on December 28, 2004
You have a very niggardly attitude toward the potential for language to offend. It's quite the gyp.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:02 PM on December 28, 2004
You're all a bunch of big DRAMA QUEENS!
I thought I was COMEDY GOLD! Oh, I'm so confused....
posted by jonmc at 6:03 PM on December 28, 2004
I thought I was COMEDY GOLD! Oh, I'm so confused....
posted by jonmc at 6:03 PM on December 28, 2004
a straight man using the term "drama queen", "fairy", "flamer", "bender", "poof", what have you, to describe a gay man in a derogatory manner is not the same as a gay man using the same terms.
This is, of course, obvious. You add the phrase 'in a derogatory manner', though, which precludes any other possibility, and lets you slip into Tautology Territory™: 'offensive is offensive'.
It does not follow from what you say that anyone has any right whatsoever to tell someone else that that person cannot use those terms without being offensive. In some situations it may be so, and in others not. It depends, as you seem to be aware, on context.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:06 PM on December 28, 2004
This is, of course, obvious. You add the phrase 'in a derogatory manner', though, which precludes any other possibility, and lets you slip into Tautology Territory™: 'offensive is offensive'.
It does not follow from what you say that anyone has any right whatsoever to tell someone else that that person cannot use those terms without being offensive. In some situations it may be so, and in others not. It depends, as you seem to be aware, on context.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:06 PM on December 28, 2004
can I help it if I'm irresistable, sic?
irresistable [sic] sic?
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:19 PM on December 28, 2004
irresistable [sic] sic?
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:19 PM on December 28, 2004
But I do want to give people a taste of what this asshole is about and why this thread is shit, for that same reason.
So, because you've called dhoyt homophobic, this invalidates the question he brought up. I like this game. AlexReynolds, because you've been a rude dick since you got here, everything you have said or will say is hereby rendered invalid.
Otherwise, a truly pathetic derail.
posted by Krrrlson at 6:40 PM on December 28, 2004
So, because you've called dhoyt homophobic, this invalidates the question he brought up. I like this game. AlexReynolds, because you've been a rude dick since you got here, everything you have said or will say is hereby rendered invalid.
Otherwise, a truly pathetic derail.
posted by Krrrlson at 6:40 PM on December 28, 2004
Interesting link that I stumbled across whilst looking for niggardly confusion: Racist Anti-Racism Policy.
Basically, dude has operated BBQ franchise for a decade or more. City of Austin decides that 25% of its contracts must be with minorities. Dude refuses participation in anti-racism program, believing his BBQ stand will do just bloody fine without any special anti-racism city support. City terminates his contracts because of this.
WTF?! A black guy who doesn't want to participate in the race-based special treatment of city contractors is punished for ... for what, for not being a white guy who can't participate in race-based special treatment? Sheeeyit.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:42 PM on December 28, 2004
Basically, dude has operated BBQ franchise for a decade or more. City of Austin decides that 25% of its contracts must be with minorities. Dude refuses participation in anti-racism program, believing his BBQ stand will do just bloody fine without any special anti-racism city support. City terminates his contracts because of this.
WTF?! A black guy who doesn't want to participate in the race-based special treatment of city contractors is punished for ... for what, for not being a white guy who can't participate in race-based special treatment? Sheeeyit.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:42 PM on December 28, 2004
Uh....digaman is gay?
Wouldn't I have had to know that prior to 'insulting' him?
I use 'drama queen' as a jokey insult with female friends all the time when they're on a particularly ridiculous tear about something. Funny no one's ever called me a homophobe.
AlexReynolds, I really don't know what to say to you. You've branded me something so far off the mark I really have no ability to respond. You've totally misunderstood me and seem to care less about discovering the truth. It's mind-bendingly stupid and I thought for sure you were initially kidding. Really depressing that you were not. Ugh.
posted by dhoyt at 7:05 PM on December 28, 2004
Wouldn't I have had to know that prior to 'insulting' him?
I use 'drama queen' as a jokey insult with female friends all the time when they're on a particularly ridiculous tear about something. Funny no one's ever called me a homophobe.
AlexReynolds, I really don't know what to say to you. You've branded me something so far off the mark I really have no ability to respond. You've totally misunderstood me and seem to care less about discovering the truth. It's mind-bendingly stupid and I thought for sure you were initially kidding. Really depressing that you were not. Ugh.
posted by dhoyt at 7:05 PM on December 28, 2004
I've emailed you, Alex. Your accusation is so off-the-wall and inaccurate I'd rather not discuss it here and subject everyone else to it. It really has nothing to do with this thread.
posted by dhoyt at 7:13 PM on December 28, 2004
posted by dhoyt at 7:13 PM on December 28, 2004
It all boils down to this:
Some people think the term "drama queen" is related to homosexuality. For them, then, the term is homophobic. That makes sense.
Some people think the term "drama queen" is not related to homosexuality. For them, then, the term is not homophobic. That makes sense.
Nobody has been able to provide any proof either way.
If you're in camp 1, and you use the term "drama queen", you are being a homophobe, and will offend non-homophobes in camp 1, rightly so.
If you're in camp 2, and you use the term "drama queen", you will be accused of being a homophobe by non-homophobes in camp 1, though this accusation might not be correct.
If you're in camp 1 and someone in camp 1 uses the term "drama queen", you'll find them to be a homophobe, and you'll probably be right.
If you're in camp 1 and someone in camp 2 uses the term "drama queen", you'll find them to be a homophobe, but you'll probably be wrong.
posted by Bugbread at 1:46 AM on December 30, 2004
Some people think the term "drama queen" is related to homosexuality. For them, then, the term is homophobic. That makes sense.
Some people think the term "drama queen" is not related to homosexuality. For them, then, the term is not homophobic. That makes sense.
Nobody has been able to provide any proof either way.
If you're in camp 1, and you use the term "drama queen", you are being a homophobe, and will offend non-homophobes in camp 1, rightly so.
If you're in camp 2, and you use the term "drama queen", you will be accused of being a homophobe by non-homophobes in camp 1, though this accusation might not be correct.
If you're in camp 1 and someone in camp 1 uses the term "drama queen", you'll find them to be a homophobe, and you'll probably be right.
If you're in camp 1 and someone in camp 2 uses the term "drama queen", you'll find them to be a homophobe, but you'll probably be wrong.
posted by Bugbread at 1:46 AM on December 30, 2004
Seriously... there is now a MetaTalk thread about a MetaTalk thread? How recursive can we get?
posted by delfuego at 8:37 AM on January 5, 2005
posted by delfuego at 8:37 AM on January 5, 2005
metametametametameta!
Oh and for the record, I've been a Drama Queen all my life, I get that from mum. But not anyehwre near AlexReynolds levels.
posted by dabitch at 12:47 PM on January 5, 2005
Oh and for the record, I've been a Drama Queen all my life, I get that from mum. But not anyehwre near AlexReynolds levels.
posted by dabitch at 12:47 PM on January 5, 2005
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posted by dhoyt at 2:05 PM on December 27, 2004