Could I post this as an FPP?

June 11, 2005 1:02 AM

I've been sent a preview of a new chapter in a forthcoming book by a friend / colleague / comrade. [more inside]
posted by warbaby to Etiquette/Policy at 1:02 AM (26 comments total)

He's circulating it for comment as a web page with an attached PDF. I think it's really good and interesting. And it's being circulated like this to gather feedback. I do think people will be interested.

But is this an acceptable FPP? If not, why not?

I can see that in my work I occasionally get these and will want to discuss them somewhere.
posted by warbaby at 1:07 AM on June 11, 2005

I did this; however, at the time, its writer was not creating it for commercial consumption. I also did not know him nearly as well as I do now.

Unless the personal connection is obvious, or the commercial purpose is equally blatant, you will probably not irritate the cabal.
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:13 AM on June 11, 2005

There is no cabal.
posted by Jimbob at 2:52 AM on June 11, 2005

I wouldn't worry too much about (with the caveats provided by AlexReynolds) it. We all have to hear about the links we post someplace and this certainly is no less valid a way than diligently combing Waxy, Boing Boing and Plep.

My only suggestion would be to make sure the post is fleshed out a bit for context rather than posting a single link to a .pdf file.
posted by cedar at 4:30 AM on June 11, 2005

I can see that in my work I occasionally get these and will want to discuss them somewhere.

The post would probably be okay. However, this line caught my attention. This isn't the place for discussions about chapters you get from comrades/friends/etc on an ongoing basis. If you really think the chapter you got is good enough that MeFites would enjoy it, and learn something, then by all means post it, with the caveats that cedar has [i.e. make it into a real post, flesh it out &c] However using MeFi as a discussion board for "What did you think of this chapter...? Okay now how about this one?" over time, is not really what MeFi is for.
posted by jessamyn at 5:06 AM on June 11, 2005

I'm confused. Why does this not fall under the self-and-friends prohibition? I thought part of the point was that we're unable to judge the value of stuff we or those close to us create. Why is warbaby telling us "What my friend / colleague / comrade wrote is really interesting!" any different than somebody saying "My kid said the funniest thing today"? (No offense, warbaby, it's not about you, I just want to understand why jessamyn thinks this is okay. Because I'm sure we all have friends we think do great stuff, and I don't want to see MeFi clogged with it.)
posted by languagehat at 6:43 AM on June 11, 2005

warbaby, will you send the .pdf to me if you don't post it? I'd appreciate that, thanks.
posted by matteo at 6:52 AM on June 11, 2005

It's OK. I'm the FNG here and I had this vague understanding that it might not be OK, hence the question.

Jessamyn - what I meant was, I'm a research analyst and several times a year I get stuff sent by other researchers who want feedback on something they've written. It's non-commercial (most but not all is academic, though some is from advocacy organizations).

But there is a personal connection between me and the author and I've often ended up in footnotes and acknowledgement sections.

From reading MeTa, I deduced the existance of some sort of a Zen rule / more that basically says: Thou shalt not post the desire of yourself and friends. For exactly the reason languagehat gives: judgement may be clouded.

languagehat - I disclosed the personal connection because it's a strong one, not because there is any question about the already widespread recognition of the author's work as unique, insightful and ground-breaking.

I hope this clarifies where I'm coming from. My feeling at this time is I'll wait for this thread to roll off the gray and then do the post a little later so that thread and this one don't get tangled up.
posted by warbaby at 7:06 AM on June 11, 2005

Jimbob writes "There is no cabal."
The Cabal prefers you capitalize Cabal when you are pointing out tha there is no Cabal.
posted by Mitheral at 7:34 AM on June 11, 2005

Mitheral writes "Jimbob writes 'There is no cabal.'
"The Cabal prefers you capitalize Cabal when you are pointing out tha there is no Cabal."

The people in the true inner circle never capitalize.
posted by OmieWise at 7:39 AM on June 11, 2005

"circulating for comment" (i'm assuming comment from peers) is different from posting it on a widely-read website, no? Wouldn't he/she be pissed, since it's then a leak?
posted by amberglow at 9:06 AM on June 11, 2005

Yeah, and really, does any writer want 24,000 unknown bitches -- uh, present company excluded, really! -- commenting on their work, after they've taken just the briefest of glances at it? That sounds about as much fun as realizing you really are clad solely in underpants during algebra class.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 10:36 AM on June 11, 2005

Why does this not fall under the self-and-friends prohibition?

I was not aware that the self-link rule had been extended to people we know.
posted by spaghetti at 11:05 AM on June 11, 2005

yup. that RJ bitch is right. ; >
posted by amberglow at 11:05 AM on June 11, 2005

I was not aware that the self-link rule had been extended to people we know.

Huh. That's how I've always understood it, and it's been treated that way in various discussions, but I checked the guidelines and it's not there. So I'll add that to my request for clarification: Matt/Jess, is it OK to link to friends? (And if not, shouldn't that be stated in the guidelines?)
posted by languagehat at 11:11 AM on June 11, 2005

I just want to understand why jessamyn thinks this is okay

Because I assumed it was just a known colleague, not a close friend. If it's a well-known person that you just also happen to know, it's different from your unknown friend and their new blog. It's still a judgment call, though, and if you're in the footnotes of the chapter you post, people might call bullshit on it. I think generally avoiding linking to close friends is a good idea, but not a hard and fast rule.

warbaby, my only point was that if you made this a regular thing -- putting up links to pdf'ed chapters on a variety of topics as your major MeFi contribution -- it might be pushing things because it would be assumed you'd be doing it because you were angling for feedback for your colleagues, not because you thought "Oh hey, this would be perfect for MeFi" I'm not sure if that's what you mean in your original "more inside" or not.
posted by jessamyn at 11:24 AM on June 11, 2005

Because I'm sure we all have friends we think do great stuff, and I don't want to see MeFi clogged with it

frankly, I do. MeFi won't get clogged, the lame stuff won't get posted anyway, or will get deleted if it is posted.

I'd like to see stuff from, say, languagehat's friends, warbaby's, and friends of many other posters I find interesting. the reason I read this site -- besides the hot pansexual action at MeFi orgies meetups -- is that there are many of interesting posters. I'm willing to bet I'd like a lot of stuff that they consider interesting and was written/designed/whatever by interesting people they know
posted by matteo at 11:40 AM on June 11, 2005

jessamyn - point very well taken. I get these sort of things maybe 3-6 times a year. This one in particular is germane to MeFi as a social organization. I fully understand the "fishing for feedback," aspect (sort of an informational Pepsi Blue?) and agree that's insufficiently disinterested.

I guess a good hypothetical would be suppose someone who isn't a MeFi member emailed me that they had published this paper and do I have comments? It's public, and free but isn't set up for comments. Note that it's a good paper and relevant to other members. Further suppose it didn't directly reference MeFi, but instead talked about online communities. Front page? MeTa? or MeCha?
posted by warbaby at 12:16 PM on June 11, 2005

Just email it to a couple other members. If they like it, let them post it.
posted by Gyan at 12:43 PM on June 11, 2005

it could maybe make an acceptable askme post .......
im in a photography competition online to win a camera and i cant post about that.....even though i F*CKING NEED A CAMERA FOR COLLEGE !
posted by sgt.serenity at 7:54 PM on June 11, 2005

we have cameras, sarge
posted by matteo at 2:37 AM on June 12, 2005

soon as i put my head down to get some sleep after that comment i made , the we have cameras quote was straight in my mind lol
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:35 AM on June 12, 2005

I second the "send it to Matteo" option. Couple of reasons...Matteo is spooky literate and a great writer and link finder...if he can't find a way to make an interesting FPP with it...it cannot be done.

Also, by referring material to Matteo, I earn MeFi points which I can then spend at the next Roman pansexual MeFi Orgy and Pig Roast. And you know me, I'm all about the points. (Well, and the Cabal. All hail our Dark Leader. Ohm.)
posted by dejah420 at 2:53 PM on June 13, 2005

Second the motion, except I hail him as Uncle Renzo.
posted by languagehat at 4:24 PM on June 13, 2005

Otherwise, there is always MetaChat, where there are no restrictions on self-linking.
posted by dg at 5:20 PM on June 13, 2005

Jimbob, Mitheral, OmieWise:
The people in the true inner circle know it's spelled khubal.
posted by arcticwoman at 6:54 PM on June 13, 2005