Of course it was; the axe was dull! October 29, 2005 2:59 PM   Subscribe

Was all the axe-grinding in this thread really necessary?
posted by cillit bang to Etiquette/Policy at 2:59 PM (59 comments total)

Eh. Wasn't really a great question anyway. See also: GIGO.
posted by selfnoise at 3:02 PM on October 29, 2005


I was outraged.
posted by Carbolic at 3:06 PM on October 29, 2005


What axe-grinding? What started out as an admittedly "pointless question" actually gave rise to a discussion of certain key points of debate concerning the roles of consumers and the media. That a lot of people think Ashlee Simpson is mediocre pop shouldn't really come as much of a shock, even if you personally like her. (heck, jonmc and I have been mocked at various times for liking Hanson, but them's the breaks of being into music -- someone, somewhere, will always think that an artist you like sucks. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to figure out what to wear to the Bauhaus concert tonight. Let the mocking begin!)
posted by scody at 3:11 PM on October 29, 2005


*puts on some Creed*
posted by quonsar at 3:19 PM on October 29, 2005


Oh, sure, go after Creed, when no one has been able to adequately explain Air Supply.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:29 PM on October 29, 2005


I supposed this is as good a time as any to say that I always seem to read the first word of your name as something else, cillit bang.
posted by my sock puppet account at 3:35 PM on October 29, 2005


Was all the axe-grinding in this thread really necessary?
posted by hall of robots at 3:37 PM on October 29, 2005


Necessary? Probably not. Against the rules? Definitely not. The question to me was sort of confusingly phrased so it was hard to tell if the questioner was asking "Why is she popular if her music sucks so badly" or "Why is she popular? Can you tell me how the industry machines work?" This got cleared up later in the thread, and as axe-grinding threads go, I'd still have to put this one soldily out of the top 100.
posted by jessamyn at 3:44 PM on October 29, 2005


Axe grinding? Ashlee Simpson? You actually have to ask if it was necessary?

Boy, those axes don't sharpen themselves.

Air Supply? Well, if no one can explain Air Supply, I offer ELO and Shadowfax for a hoped-for explanation.
posted by loquacious at 3:51 PM on October 29, 2005


ELO? Because they're fucking awesome. Shadowfax, I can't really explain.
posted by jonson at 3:54 PM on October 29, 2005


Oh, and also:

/me sneaks ninja-like into cillit bang's music appreciation hall and carefully inspects the CDs and files available there.

"A-HA!" he suddenly shouts - blowing his stealthy cover - but revealing a hideous, lurking trove of American girl-pop, lurid and glistening, awaiting to maul unsuspecting passerby.
posted by loquacious at 3:55 PM on October 29, 2005


ELO fucking rocks. Seriously. I say this with absolutely no trace of irony. Jeff Lynne is an amazing, amazing songwriter, musician, and producer. If he was good enough for George Harrison and Roy Orbison, that's good enough for me.

*considers wearing ELO shirt to Bauhaus tonight; smiles*
posted by scody at 4:07 PM on October 29, 2005


I'm jealous scody. Bela Lugosi's Dead is an all-time fave.
posted by peacay at 4:14 PM on October 29, 2005


Perhaps you feel that way, peacay. But King Volcano is king.
posted by Smart Dalek at 4:20 PM on October 29, 2005


I go to bat for Hanson too!
posted by Quartermass at 4:24 PM on October 29, 2005


Resigned sigh.

Metafilter: Was all the axe-grinding in this thread really necessary?
posted by fire&wings at 4:27 PM on October 29, 2005


*considers wearing ELO shirt to Bauhaus tonight; smiles*

That's actually pretty damn punk rock. Say hello to the Wiltern for me. I used to live just a hop, skip and a jump from there.
posted by loquacious at 4:32 PM on October 29, 2005


I'm still trying to figure out The Smiths. I only rate Captain Beefheart lower.
posted by mischief at 4:45 PM on October 29, 2005


I feared that it would come off as "Ashlee Simpson sucks, why do people by her music?" Sorry I employed a stream-of-consciouss question style.

I had no other idea how to say "if you know nothing about the music industry and are making observations please don't answer." I was more pissed off by the "this thread sucks/sounds like a rant" whatever. I got some good answers I guess AskMefi has no real connections to the music industry to answer this.

Just because I happen to be interested in how the music industry works (I'm probably not the only one, seeing as how its a billion dollar industry) -- doesn't mean it's garbage. I mean if someone actually had inside information on the industry (a possibility here), there could have been a really great answer. Unfortunately no one had the answer so it sucked.

And I'd like to add, unrelated, that it seems like AskMe has had a bunch of throwaway answers and potential derails. I've probably been guilty of this in the past (I've tried to curb it, honest!) but I've noticed a rise in Metafilter-esque quips and general non-answers. And there doesn't need to be 5 comments relating to the validity of a question. If we start doing that "How do I get rid of a dead body" and other seemingly throwaway threads would not have existed. It just seems that AskMetafilter has become so vitriolic lately, geeze everyone needs to lighten up. If I wanted a pedantic berating I'd post over to the blue more often.
posted by geoff. at 4:45 PM on October 29, 2005


On reflection I probably shouldn't based the question around Ashlee Simpson. She just came to mind as someone so wholely unqualified (with the public embarrassments) and still famous that it amazed me. I guess the world is just incredibly uncool.
posted by geoff. at 4:48 PM on October 29, 2005


WTH? Reasoned analysis of media pressures and pop fame = axe grinding?
posted by dreamsign at 4:59 PM on October 29, 2005


I was actually kind of surprised to see a lack of axe grinding in the thread. It was kind of a pointless question, but the discussion redeemed and made it worthwhile. And by the way: your favorite band still sucks.
posted by psmealey at 5:04 PM on October 29, 2005


Blame it on the Rain, yeah yeah.
posted by delmoi at 5:11 PM on October 29, 2005


Actually, I prefer to blame it on the stars (that didn't shine that night).
posted by Quartermass at 5:19 PM on October 29, 2005


Smart Dalek, I have very fond...soft....sweeeet smelling lurid memories from the undead undead..
We are on the same page nonetheless.
posted by peacay at 5:20 PM on October 29, 2005


Thought for the Day:

Dakota Fanning has likely made more money at age 11, than you will in a lifetime.

What an incredible society we put up with.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:37 PM on October 29, 2005


delmoi, Quartermass: Blame it on the boogie.
posted by Lotto at 5:48 PM on October 29, 2005


Geof, I could tell you what I know about the music industry from an inside perspective but I would prefer hanging myself. The music industry is full of whores, liars and some of the lowest scum of the earth. It's a machine that eats people and shits produc'. If I could wipe all knowlege of that cess-pit from my mind I would be a happier person.
posted by Mr T at 5:55 PM on October 29, 2005


I think I just un-cleanched a little.
posted by Mr T at 5:57 PM on October 29, 2005




The T knows all about it.
posted by delmoi at 6:33 PM on October 29, 2005


It was a fascinating thread, and I'm very glad geoff. asked the question.
posted by rocketman at 6:42 PM on October 29, 2005


This 'axe-grinding,' I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by odinsdream at 6:50 PM on October 29, 2005


What does axe-grinding actualy mean, anyway?
posted by delmoi at 6:56 PM on October 29, 2005


Other people think your taste in 'music' sucks. Get a helmet.

Would that now that the axe has been ground to a fine, keen edge, it were buried in the skull of the assmuffins who ply us with 'famous' human refuse like whatsername Simpson and the Hilton whore and the other one, with the boobs.

Ah well. As davy says inthread, it's not much different than it ever was with pushing product, and nobody ever goes broke assuming that most people are tasteless and not overly bright. Hell, I like Flintstones cartoons!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:03 PM on October 29, 2005


::big makeout sessions to one and all who love Hanson::
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:03 PM on October 29, 2005 [1 favorite]



Oh, sure, go after Creed, when no one has been able to adequately explain Air Supply.

Creed are really good riff-rock. Air Supply are really good easy listening. If you don't like riff-rock or easy listening that's your prerogative, but qualitative differences still exist within genres.

ELO fucking rocks. Seriously. I say this with absolutely no trace of irony.

Amen. "Sweet Talkin' Woman" is graet piece of pop. "Don't Bring me Down," was Kurt Cobains favorite song as a kid, which shows me he had a great ear for pop as well as a punk rock attitude. And The Move, Jeff Lynne's pre-ELO band with Roy Wood was amazing; they created "Do Ya," an indisputibaly great rock song by any standard.

::big makeout sessions to one and all who love Hanson::

*puts on smoking jacket, lights pipe*

my lucky night!

(I still think Ashlee Simpson sucks by the way. I love some good bubblegum pop (Hanson, The Archies, The Partridge Family and countless others) but as philosopher Mark Kingwell said, it's at the junkfood level where nuance becomes most important. Read this book (scody's already leafed through it) for further elucidation. As I've said before, if you like the Ramones but dismiss Hanson and the Archies out of hand, you've missed the point)

(sorry for the parenthese abuse)
posted by jonmc at 7:27 PM on October 29, 2005


I got some good answers I guess AskMefi has no real connections to the music industry to answer this.

I mean if someone actually had inside information on the industry (a possibility here), there could have been a really great answer. Unfortunately no one had the answer so it sucked.


What are you complaining about? You got plenty of good answers from people who, judging by their responses, have varying levels of knowledge about how music marketing works. I don't know what kind of "inside information" you could've been hoping for.
posted by ludwig_van at 7:46 PM on October 29, 2005


Wow, Geoff asked a flawed question, got decent answers (though a little too much on the blithe "Boy, she sucks and we can all agree on that so I don't have to justify my taste!" posing), and then what? Cillit Bang calls it out because hes' a sissy?
You people need to stop pretending that your feelings matter or that your taste is inviolate.
posted by klangklangston at 8:05 PM on October 29, 2005


I think now would be a good time to examine the possibility that Cillit Bang may, in fact, be Ashlee Simpson.
posted by odinsdream at 8:26 PM on October 29, 2005


or part of her "guerilla marketing street team" ? ; >
posted by amberglow at 8:53 PM on October 29, 2005


If by "inside information" geoff. means he wants to hear something along the lines of "Oh, well, we're still trying to recoup our investment in Jessica, so... we're whoring out her sister, too." directly from an industry source, good luck. Anyone deep enough in the music biz to confirm anything like that in cold, hard facts is going to be too busy suckling at the money teat to even think about divulging such precious secrets.

"What, and back away from the ever-flowing feeding trough? Are you mad? You must be mad."

A good source for a general feel of what the inside of the commercial music industry is like is "HITS Magazine". I'm firmly convinced that the obvious anagram is entirely (and non-ironically) intentional. It's mainly filled with ads about what is playing where and how heavily it's being rotated and why that means you should jump on the bandwagon too and play it on your radio station. In between the ads are a bunch of lame, self-deprecating in-jokes and "articles" that basically amount to who screwed who for what promotion. "Brazen whoring" isn't a strong enough description.

Really, it's difficult for me to put into words how incredibly terrible this magazine is. Reading it - as a music lover - was anger management turned into an extreme sport. Just remembering it is bringing up so much bile that it'll probably spoil my dinner.

I did over 6-7 years volunteering at a RPM-reporting music-centric college radio station. Even though our charter (and FCC license) depended on a clause that stated in clear terms that we weren't allowed to play "mainstream" or "commercial" music, that's about as close to the music industry as I ever want to get.

Even to this day as I think back to my times in half-assed college radio I feel so filthy and dirty I just want to run to the shower and scrub all my skin off - and I never even really got dirty. Just the occasional whiff of stench from upstream (downstream!?) and the odd witnessed backsplash now and then.

And this is why I really don't have any guilt about "stealing" from the music industry. Independent artists, labels, sure. But anything from the RIAA back catalog? Fuck no. It's like stealing from Satan. Ethics, morals and rational logic just melt away in the overwhelming craptacularness that is the music biz.

Really, as far as music goes I desire nothing less than the Earth opening up and swallowing the entire mainstream music industry in one go. The reps can go. The crappy pay-for-play radio stations can go. Clear Channel can go eat it's own asshole inside out. The RIAA can explode in a catastrophic geyser of flaming poo. The whole stinking mess can get wiped off the face of the Earth by demons, for all I care.

Even if it means they take their back catalog with them. We can make even more and even better music after they're gone.
posted by loquacious at 9:04 PM on October 29, 2005


I find myself wondering how and if the user called cillit bang here is connected with this, and if that somehow is then connected to this objection against a thread calling over-marketed musical tripe what it is.

Perhaps I'm just paranoid.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:17 PM on October 29, 2005


jonmc and I have been mocked at various times for liking Hanson

HA!
posted by spaghetti at 10:13 PM on October 29, 2005



posted by puke & cry at 10:43 PM on October 29, 2005


Bang. Huh? Bang! BANG!

Nope, I'm still a filthy, dirty bastard.
posted by loquacious at 10:54 PM on October 29, 2005


klangklangston, your feeling of distaste for everybody else's feelings and taste has been noted. Do continue.
posted by davy at 11:22 PM on October 29, 2005


Oh wow oops, I did get good answers -- sorry I was kind of reactionary there. No it was a good thread with some noise.
posted by geoff. at 11:32 PM on October 29, 2005


A good source for a general feel of what the inside of the commercial music industry is like is "HITS Magazine". I'm firmly convinced that the obvious anagram is entirely (and non-ironically) intentional.

Tim is a zen hag? Nazi shag time? Don't leave me hangin'.
posted by delmoi at 11:42 PM on October 29, 2005


Or, maybe "A nazi gets him!" Or "Nazi Game Shit".

Oh wait. Shit Magazine. I'll shut up now.
posted by delmoi at 11:50 PM on October 29, 2005


Creed are really good riff-rock.


jonmc,

If you can describe Creed as "really good" at anything besides "scarfing turds" then you're a much more generous and forgiving person than I am.
posted by Jon-o at 11:58 PM on October 29, 2005


Tim is a zen hag? Nazi shag time? Don't leave me hangin'.

No, please continue. "Nazi shag time" is really quite apt and descriptive. Though it's giving me the crawling terrors to think of music industry execs doing - well, anything really - but especially that!
posted by loquacious at 12:21 AM on October 30, 2005


Oh, and obvious:

MetaFilter: Sorry I was kind of reactionary there.

Apologies to geoff. I didn't really think you were being abrasive here. Pretty mild stuff, really.
posted by loquacious at 12:23 AM on October 30, 2005


You people need to stop pretending that your feelings matter or that your taste is inviolate.

It's solid gold, really.
posted by Wolof at 1:12 AM on October 30, 2005


Actually, I gotta give jonmc a little credit here as well: creed, if nothing else, were good at what they did. It's easy to tangle the band's image up in their music (ugh! Scott Stapp?), but if you just listen to "the songs," they did the job. They even have a couple of singles that are actually half decent. I remember hearing Creed for the first time on a movie trailer (can't think of the name of it right now - a science fiction cartoon from 2000 where the earth blows up?), and I thought that the riffage was actually pretty good, and checked out the band as a result.

Air Supply? The fact that I own an Air Supply "greatest hits" will tell you anything you need to know.

I don't want to come off like I am a guy who just listens to "anything," because I don't, and there are plenty of things that I HATE. I listen to music all day long, and care more about the songs than the people playing them, though sometimes the people playing them make me like the songs a little more, but genererally not less.

I don't see any value in hating an artist outright, as usually most popular singers have a song or two that have value, Ashlee and Jessica included (well, actually, I can't say that there are any Jessica Simpson songs that have any value: to me, she is the greater evil overall - she reeks of mediocrity and blandness). At least Ashlee has a few half decent pop-songs (including the new single, which, if it were terrible would have ended her career. It is not, and thus, here she is - still).
posted by Quartermass at 6:52 AM on October 30, 2005


Actually, I gotta give jonmc a little credit here as well: creed, if nothing else, were good at what they did. It's easy to tangle the band's image up in their music (ugh! Scott Stapp?), but if you just listen to "the songs," they did the job. They even have a couple of singles that are actually half decent.

Maybe they do, but so many of their songs really just grate on my ears the way songs from even the most sugary pop queens don't at all. I can listen to Ashlee, Lo-ho, etc. The background music is often interesting.

But most creed songs, along with say Nickleback just have this sound that bugs the hell out of me. It's just so bland.

Look at Biz Markee had that single where he sung. He's a terrible singer, but the song was more enjoyable then any creed song.
posted by delmoi at 7:27 AM on October 30, 2005


Stavros: That Cillit Bang blogspam thing was really interesting. You might want to FPP it.
(Unless Cillit Bang does so first).
posted by klangklangston at 9:18 AM on October 30, 2005


They were six fine English boys
Who knew each other in Birmingham
They bought a drum and guitar
Started a rock-roll band
And Johnny played little violin
And Bobby Joe played the big violin
The one that stands on the floor
They were all in the rock-roll band
Their first song sounded like this
Please get me a witness
Please get me a witness
Right off, they needed a name
Someone said, "How 'bout the Renegades ?"
Johnny said, "Well I don't know.
I prefer E.L.O." I love their "Mr. Blue Skies"
Almost my favorite is "Turn to Stone"
And how 'bout "Telephone Line"?
I love that E.L.O.

I'm still trying to figure out The Smiths. I only rate Captain Beefheart lower.

I don't know anything about the Smiths, but Beefheart's Clear Spot (produced by Ted Templeton) rocks.
posted by timeistight at 10:42 AM on October 30, 2005


I don't know anything about the Smiths, but Beefheart's Clear Spot (produced by Ted Templeton) rocks.

Safe As Milk is phenomenal as well. And it was on Buddha Records, same label as the Archies, and I love 'em both. The 60's musta been weird, in a good way.
posted by jonmc at 11:51 AM on October 30, 2005


Neon meat dreams of a wet octofish. And a puller, puller, bat-chain puller!
posted by Wolof at 3:30 AM on October 31, 2005


« Older It's a selflinker gone wild   |   AskMe is not a replacement for google Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments