Jerk topper November 14, 2005 3:30 PM   Subscribe

Maybe I should be sufficiently inoculated to this by now, but it still amazes me. No matter how poorly someone's character is coming across or how unlikely someone's suggestion might be, someone else can come along with a reaction that is so condescending and snotty that they manage to make themselves look like an even bigger jerk than the person(s) they're reacting to.
posted by phearlez to Etiquette/Policy at 3:30 PM (67 comments total)

So a Metatalk callout is somehow less condescending than the relatively mild responses you linked to?
posted by rxrfrx at 3:33 PM on November 14, 2005


Groan.
posted by fire&wings at 3:36 PM on November 14, 2005


xmutex wasn't acting like a 'bigger jerk.'
posted by Quartermass at 3:37 PM on November 14, 2005


Well, outjerking that comment by SiezeTheDay would have been quite the accomplishment.
posted by xmutex at 3:40 PM on November 14, 2005


Oh boy. Fuck man, I already ate all the popcorn in the house yesterday. Are you trying to kill me or what?
posted by loquacious at 3:43 PM on November 14, 2005


i knew that thread would be controversial, but was kind of surprised at a few comments -- a couple of the worst were deleted.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:44 PM on November 14, 2005


I think this AskMe questions led to one of the most interesting discussions I'd seen in AskMe.

After reading my own contributions, I realized that there's real skill involved in making a point on a controversial topic without offending people. I think I've yet to learn this skill. Ah, if I could only reword things!

However, I don't quite understand the guy. He posts a question anonymously, because his gf sometimes reads AskMe, but then later outs himself in the thread? And then he says that he doesn't really have issues with condoms? So what is the question?
posted by luneray at 3:45 PM on November 14, 2005


Are you suggesting something or are you just venting? What would you like to see happen here?

I don't think SiezeTheDay's advice was the best. And I don't think that xmutex's reply was great either. But I think both of their statements are pretty much what you're gonna get when you introduce a highly personal issue about a delicate subject to 30,000 of your closest friends on an anonymous message board.
posted by 27 at 3:45 PM on November 14, 2005


Fascinating thread, I really enjoyed it. Thanks for not deleting the whole thing.
posted by selfnoise at 3:56 PM on November 14, 2005


I'm just amazed that someone reads something they think is jerky and responds by telling that person to "enjoy their life alone" as if that's not just as jerky, if not more. I wouldn't take relationship advice from Sieze but he didn't denigrate anyone else's character with his questionable advice. I probably wouldn't have bothered to mention it here if not for the subsequent snottyness directed at someone else for their suggestion.

I assume his statement that he didn't have an issue with condoms was that he could bear to keep using them but would prefer not to. Therefor not enough of an aversion that he'd be willing to have surgery and risk permanent infertility.
posted by phearlez at 3:59 PM on November 14, 2005


I realized that there's real skill involved in making a point on a controversial topic without offending people. I think I've yet to learn this skill.
posted by luneray at 3:45 PM PST on November 14


If you need any pointers, e-mail me! I can teach you how!
posted by dios at 4:01 PM on November 14, 2005


phearlez: Good work misreading what I said. What the comment pretty clearly says is that if you follow Sieze's wretched advice, you'll probably end up alone.

But don't let me keep you from misreading things in the future and making baseless callouts.
posted by xmutex at 4:01 PM on November 14, 2005


So baseless only 1 of the 3 linked comments I posted still exist, I see.
posted by phearlez at 4:03 PM on November 14, 2005


Oh snap.
posted by xmutex at 4:04 PM on November 14, 2005


Yeah you ain't saying nothing now, is you.
posted by xmutex at 4:12 PM on November 14, 2005


Anyone else want a piece of xmutex?
posted by xmutex at 4:13 PM on November 14, 2005


Given how many people were blithely advising a vasectomy, I'm not surprised that the poster decided to out himself just to see if he could quiet down some of that noise.

I wouldn't take relationship advice from Sieze but he didn't denigrate anyone else's character with his questionable advice.

Well, aside from denigrating the character of mkultura's girlfriend (not to mention any other woman) for choosing not to go on the Pill for the sake of her boyfriend's convenience.
posted by scody at 4:15 PM on November 14, 2005


Well, what did the deleted comments actualy say?
posted by delmoi at 4:17 PM on November 14, 2005


I'm just glad we got the MeFi equivalent of stick it in her pooper!

No, really.
posted by basicchannel at 4:22 PM on November 14, 2005



I like to watch.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:32 PM on November 14, 2005


Despite the traditional mefi sanctimony, there are some good posts in there. I feel better, as a human being, for reading that.

I want a piece of xmutex...
posted by hototogisu at 4:33 PM on November 14, 2005


I'd like to point out that I did suggest anal sex earlier in the thread, but was being coy about it.
posted by sbutler at 4:39 PM on November 14, 2005


I caught it, sbutler. You are not forgotten!
posted by hototogisu at 4:40 PM on November 14, 2005


Thank you, thank you. The rest of my comment was just cover so that the Powers That Be wouldn't deleted it.
posted by sbutler at 4:47 PM on November 14, 2005


Ow. Ow. OW!

I'm not sure what to do with this new dios-with-a-sense-of-humor. I think I just laughed so hard I coughed up lung.
posted by loquacious at 4:54 PM on November 14, 2005


I want a piece of xmutex, but in a sexy way.

I don't see what the problem is with his comment at all. Maybe the deleted ones were worse, but I don't really see what you're complaining about.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 5:09 PM on November 14, 2005


in other news, up and down remain pointing in opposite directions.
posted by andrew cooke at 5:15 PM on November 14, 2005


I'm not sure what to do with this new dios-with-a-sense-of-humor. I think I just laughed so hard I coughed up lung.

Hahaha, no kidding.

By the way kids, anal sex can lead to pregnancy. Do you really want me to explain it to you?
posted by delmoi at 5:19 PM on November 14, 2005


Actually, yes.
posted by hototogisu at 5:20 PM on November 14, 2005


By the way kids, anal sex can lead to pregnancy. Do you really want me to explain it to you?

I can take some guesses how, but if you've researched this then please share!
posted by sbutler at 5:22 PM on November 14, 2005


If this merits a callout, I might have to have a pop at the eejits in the Buckminster-Fuller thread.

The only things wrong there were Danf's crochet hook tip, and the apparently serious suggestion of anal sex as a birth control method.

Oh, and maybe phearlez suggestion to seek counselling. Jesus.
posted by jack_mo at 5:26 PM on November 14, 2005


"By the way kids, anal sex can lead to pregnancy."

So can a dozen roses, but probably with more steps.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:31 PM on November 14, 2005


Well, basically semen injected into the anus will leak out, drip down over the taint area, and into the vagina, from whence it will swim to the egg, fertilizing it.
posted by delmoi at 5:36 PM on November 14, 2005


That sounds like a just-so story to me...
posted by hototogisu at 5:36 PM on November 14, 2005


I know a girl who got pregnant even though her and her bf primarily engaged in Anal sex (although they did 'lube up' in her vagina). I don't know if the semen dripped out, or if there was pre-ejaculation in the vagina. Either way, she got pregnant.

Obviously there's less chance of getting pregnant, but I don't think it's a very effective method of contraception. Unless you're doing it to another dude, of course.
posted by delmoi at 5:38 PM on November 14, 2005


Well if you know one of these so-called girls, and I know none of them, I'm not sure if this counts as "not very effective"...I think our sample size is too small. This should be corrected.
posted by hototogisu at 5:40 PM on November 14, 2005


Everything I say is genius : I am a life changer.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 6:06 PM on November 14, 2005


A few points:

- I don’t think the original poster did a very good job of representing his girlfriend; he asked for a way to convince his g/f not to use condoms and slightly implied that he didn’t respect his g/f’s opinion not to use the pill
- Further, the way his g/f was represented, she was afraid of the doctor and didn’t have a medical reason NOT to use the pill; she simply didn’t want to (just because), which implied to me that we were dealing with a younger couple (immature relationship)
- I didn’t really expect anyone to defend my words or understand me clearly; MeFi tends to be “progressive”, which makes an opinion like mine unusual for the site, especially given the sensitivity to women (and women’s issues) in AskMeFi
- what irked me was how many men and women suggested a surgical procedure like a vasectomy (given that we didn’t know anonymous’s age or future goals) and argued against the pill; surgery vs. hormones is a no-brainer
- Given the title in that thread, I answered the question politely and directly; I won’t apologize for having an unpopular opinion (one that I would never partake in myself, but given the kinds of relationships I’ve seen, I’m just suggesting something that works)
- Another thing that bothered me (but is slightly off-topic) was how people “pitied” me and told me that they were disgusted by my speech; I find the snap judgments that people made about my comment to be more abhorrent than my unusual advice
- To the original poster of this thread, I wasn’t being a jerk, so xmutex wasn’t “out-jerking” me; xmutex has been here quite a while and I tuned him out long ago; his comment that I’m kryptonite to women is off-base and an ad hominem, but so untrue that I don’t take it seriously
- Again, I apologize for offending anyone; as I said in the thread, I’m not a misogynist and given my relationship with my mother and sister (and ex-g/fs), anyone who actually knew me would know that I often treat women better than I treat myself; I’m not trying to defend myself, but considering the reaction, maybe a small disclaimer is necessary
posted by SeizeTheDay at 6:09 PM on November 14, 2005


What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Between this and the Alex Reynold's bitchfest below you all sound like a squad of perky breasted cheerleaders mad at the quarterback. Did the jv soccer team all get their periods at the same time?

Can you run that anal sex equals pregnancy thing by me again? Then again, even assholes breed.
posted by cedar at 6:17 PM on November 14, 2005


This should have been sent to Mr. Savage.
posted by snsranch at 6:23 PM on November 14, 2005


Anal Sex? The natural alternative? Unbefuckinglievable.
posted by Joeforking at 6:49 PM on November 14, 2005


Incidentally, I mentioned anal sex for two reasons:

a) Cheap laugh.

b) Some couples actually do use it precisely because it's a form of sex where there's no birth control and no condom involved.

If you're still having trouble you either need to get a sense of humor or a copy of a book about human sexual variation, or maybe both.
posted by ikkyu2 at 7:40 PM on November 14, 2005


Did the jv soccer team all get their periods at the same time?

Full moon rising...
posted by loquacious at 7:56 PM on November 14, 2005


Can you run that anal sex equals pregnancy thing by me again? Then again, even assholes breed.

okay, alright. Look, like I said I know a girl who got pregnant even though her and her boyfriend were having primarily anal sex, but the guy would 'lube up' with her vagina first. This is what she told me, and I only knew her over the internet.

I've also seen a cheap, nasty, porno that involved some anal sex. After the anal sex, the jizz (technical term) oozed out of the woman's anus. It was very disgusting, but it oozed out, and while she was still prone, it dripped down into her crotch region.

I mean, what do you think happens to jizz after it comes out of your penis? That it just disappears? That it gets digested by the woman's body? It oozes back out at some point, and the anus is close to the vagina. think about it people

I don't know how long it lasts, but perhaps ikkyu2 can inform us.

These two datapoints have led me to the conclusion that having anal sex is not an adequate form of birth control. Until I see some studies that suggest otherwise, I'm going to continue to believe that, and even tell people my opinion about it.

If you disagree with me, hop on pubmed and find the studies that claim otherwise.
posted by delmoi at 9:52 PM on November 14, 2005


I've also seen a cheap, nasty, porno that involved some anal sex. After the anal sex, the jizz (technical term) oozed out of the woman's anus. It was very disgusting, but it oozed out, and while she was still prone, it dripped down into her crotch region.

Actually, I believe the technical term for the amalgam that oozed out of her anus is "santorum". Look it up, kids.
posted by delmoi at 9:56 PM on November 14, 2005


i knew that thread would be controversial,

yeah, to say the least.

the question's wording was terrible ("How can I convince my girlfriend to stop relying on condoms for birth control?" sounds strangely like, "how can I slip that Pill into her coffee every morning without anybody noticing"), the poster -- frankly -- came across as "why do I have to wear that damn rubber" annoying (sorry) and the girlfriend came across as very misinformed about her own health ("very doctor-phobic, so she's averse to going to a gyno" -- wtf???).

hence, loads of bad advice -- with a few mature, reasonable exceptions that I marked as great answers, for example scody's -- followed. what a mess.

we then saw lots of empirical evidence and personal experience masquerading as sound medical advice, the occasional Fark-ish comments ("just splooge on her tits" was really classy). I'm just surprised nobody mentioned tube ligation or hysterectomy as an alternative to the Pill -- that would have made the thread perfect in its own way

all in all, a very crappy thread.
posted by matteo at 10:01 PM on November 14, 2005


matteo : "'How can I convince my girlfriend to stop relying on condoms for birth control?' sounds strangely like, 'how can I slip that Pill into her coffee every morning without anybody noticing'"

Sure, if "convince" sounds like "not convince" to you.
posted by Bugbread at 10:35 PM on November 14, 2005


I support {INSERT POSTER HERE}'s right to {HIS/HER/ITS/THEIR} opinions, no matter how {UNPOPULAR/OFFENSIVE/HURTFUL} thin-skinned members of the community may find them and I oppose {INSERT OTHER POSTER HERE}'s attempts to have {POSTER1} silenced. It hurts me and makes me feel very sad, and you should just {SCROLL PAST IT/READ ANOTHER POST/SHUT UP} if it bothers you.
posted by darukaru at 10:37 PM on November 14, 2005


Santorum: The frothy mix of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex.
posted by 6550 at 10:48 PM on November 14, 2005


b) Some couples actually do use it precisely because it's a form of sex where there's no birth control and no condom involved.

One should never, never, never have anal sex without using a condom and lots of lube, no matter how long one has been with a partner.
posted by orange swan at 6:10 AM on November 15, 2005


Note to self: do not read metatalk while eating breakfast.
posted by Lola_G at 6:11 AM on November 15, 2005


One should never, never, never have anal sex without using a condom and lots of lube, no matter how long one has been with a partner.

Why?
posted by jessamyn at 6:25 AM on November 15, 2005


Because.
posted by yerfatma at 6:52 AM on November 15, 2005


delmoi-
I'm unconvinced. I understand your anecdote, but I'm not sure why, in the face of it, disagreeing that it constitutes proof that anal sex almost-always does not end in pregnancy means that I should be the one checking pubmed. Not only did your friend actually have unprotected vaginal sex (even if not to orgasm), but using your logic ejaculating anywhere but into the trash can can be considered a pregnancy risk. I once knew a woman who got pregnant from sleeping on the wet spot.
posted by OmieWise at 6:58 AM on November 15, 2005


orange swan writes "One should never, never, never have anal sex without using a condom and lots of lube, no matter how long one has been with a partner."

Yeah, why? Certainly the same could be said for vaginal sex if the concern is lurking STDs. Not to mention oral sex. Not to mention kissing. Is it something else?
posted by OmieWise at 7:00 AM on November 15, 2005


While we're waiting for the answer to that, can someone please explain why more than one person in that thread thinks condoms are terribly unsafe? Am I missing something important?
posted by dame at 7:09 AM on November 15, 2005


Dame: Welcome to the triumph of faith-based medicine. Only abstinence is safe.
posted by klangklangston at 7:26 AM on November 15, 2005


While we're waiting for the answer to that, can someone please explain why more than one person in that thread thinks condoms are terribly unsafe? Am I missing something important?

Not really. I think the difference is how seriously you take the percentage of cases in which someone got pregnant. Some people are more scared at the 3% (or whatever the number is now) than you might be.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 7:29 AM on November 15, 2005


"One should never, never, never have anal sex without using a condom and lots of lube, no matter how long one has been with a partner."

Vague second-hand argument:

The tissue walls of the colon aren't terribly robust, which means tiny tears can easily happen with any significant friction, and tears in the colon means exposure of the colon-owner to bacteria in their own feces. Lube and condom help reduce this friction. Condom also protects owner of cock from said-same bacteria, though that's maybe less of an issue.
posted by cortex at 7:45 AM on November 15, 2005


MetaFilter: Ejaculating Anywhere But Into The Trash Can
posted by matteo at 8:12 AM on November 15, 2005


What's wrong with the trash can? God can't find it there.
posted by yerfatma at 8:16 AM on November 15, 2005


God is everywhere, even the trash can. And yes, if he wanted to, he could make a kleenex so heavy he couldn't lift it.
posted by phearlez at 8:42 AM on November 15, 2005


If it were me, I'd delete the "just pull out" and "do it in the butt" comments. But they were extensively replied-to, I suppose, so it's complicated now. I am pretty stunned anyone was dumb enough to suggest those, really shocked.

tears in the colon means exposure of the colon-owner to bacteria in their own feces

Okay - that's a fair answer. But I'd say enough lube is the important thing. And even with a condom and lube, the displacement and stretching is going to risk some tearing of this kind, so if you're going to get technical about it, you shouldn't ever have anal sex, ever. Since lots of people do all the time, I'm guessing that there is a safe and happy medium to it.
posted by scarabic at 8:48 AM on November 15, 2005


Indeed. Risk reduction &c
posted by cortex at 8:53 AM on November 15, 2005


surgery vs. hormones is a no-brainer
posted by SeizeTheDay at 6:09 PM PST


Obviously it is not a "no-brainer" because it became quite a prolonged discussion. A more appropriate comparison might be:

one time surgery (possibly permanent) for him vs. years of hormones (possibly serious side effects) for her. This is not a "no-brainer." There is a great deal that needs to be considered and weighed.

And about the anal sex angle: Have they stopped teaching sex ed in school? I'm really surprised this even came up, because the reason for using birth control is to decrease the chances of getting pregnant, right? Pulling out, anal sex, and rhythm methods decrease the chances of getting pregnant in some way-- but they are certainly not close to using a condom or taking birth control pills.

Anytime you deposit sperm near the vagina, even on the upper thigh, you take a chance on pregnancy. The possibility is small, but it does exist. One study claims: 8% of couples of who use anal sex as a method of birth control have pregnancies each year.

Other links for you..
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:56 AM on November 15, 2005


Have they stopped teaching sex ed in school?

It's only 2005. Give 'em a couple more years.
posted by darukaru at 9:00 AM on November 15, 2005


Secret Life:

Well, according to the chart linked in the original thread, that's a 33% improvement over condoms.

Interesting.
posted by Irontom at 9:17 AM on November 15, 2005


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