This is the most mean spirited thread December 14, 2005 7:13 AM   Subscribe

This is a front page tragedy. Lord Kinbote sums up my feelings well : "This is the most mean spirited thread I have ever read on MetaFilter."
posted by grapefruitmoon to Etiquette/Policy at 7:13 AM (126 comments total)

It wasn't a good post, and should have been just flagged as noise.
posted by orange swan at 7:17 AM on December 14, 2005


It's possible to have something to say on the topic -- and even something strongly felt and a little angry -- without being mean spirited.

But for the most part, it seemed to me to be largely about a bunch of people getting a chance to show off what hardasses they are.
posted by lodurr at 7:33 AM on December 14, 2005


"Beloved television program" being canceled or pre-empted for one night: not FPP-worthy. Guy whose life never significantly affected anyone outside his family and peer group kills himself: not FPP-worthy. The two combined: still not FPP-worthy.
posted by solid-one-love at 6:56 AM PST on December 14


I agree with all these and would like to add my own.

Pissing all over a thread about a dead man who never did anything to you: not classy.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:33 AM on December 14, 2005


This place brings out the worst in so many of us, myself included.
posted by LarryC at 7:36 AM on December 14, 2005


.

(It was a bad FPP, but there sure was a lot of dick-waving going on there.)
posted by Plutor at 7:38 AM on December 14, 2005


It was a bad post. Why is it still up? End this mess and delete the post.
posted by caddis at 7:38 AM on December 14, 2005


I don't know what you expected to be posted in this thread. I couldn't think of anything productive to say, so I skipped. Ergo, lots of junk.
posted by selfnoise at 7:39 AM on December 14, 2005


It's not FPP material, and the ensuing "discussion" proves why- there's not much worthwhile to say on the topic.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:41 AM on December 14, 2005 [1 favorite]


I was sort of hoping that thread would redeem itself in some way when I first saw it, that was clearly not happening and yeah it was pretty newsfilter-y.
posted by jessamyn at 7:46 AM on December 14, 2005


I posted this thread to MeTa, because while I flagged the *post* as noise, I was so incredibly disheartened when I read the ensuing comments that I felt like there should be some way to react and there was no way to do that in the thread.

It really brings me down to see people acting like jerks on the internets over something which is - to whoever was directly involved in this man's life, incredibly tragic - but to them, relatively inconsequential. It seems to me that a lot of people turn off their empathy when posting online and that's, well, it's a real bummer. Man.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 7:51 AM on December 14, 2005


A suicide story about a little known person could of course be front page material if there is good writing or interesting background or some nuance of depth. But the newstory and the relationship to the show (for the mostpart) are the inconsequential things.....not the guy. That's why the commentary read badly. It was callously dismissive.

MeFi doesn't do suicide well though (not just MeFi) - there are a a fair few people out there who have strong feelings on the topic and insist on disparaging victims as though they expect to better validate life or something - imho of course - someone put in suicide helpline details in that thread, which I thought was a good thing.
posted by peacay at 8:13 AM on December 14, 2005


He was the frickin' receptionist. This isn't newsworthy, much less FPP-worthy.

Yowch. Posted by "solid-one-love," no less.
posted by scarabic at 8:20 AM on December 14, 2005


Yeah, keep on making it about me. That'll end well.
posted by solid-one-love at 8:21 AM on December 14, 2005


The front page has been pretty much a tragedy for some time.

On a more positive note, in my opinion, this is the coolest post I've seen in awhile.
posted by marxchivist at 8:23 AM on December 14, 2005


Really, why do people feel it necessary or even desirable to jump into a thread and tell everyone how much they hate it? What part of your boat gets floated by making sure everyone knows you don't think it's worthwhile? Should that matter to the rest of us? I see tons of posts on the blue that do nothing for me. Unless they're abusing the place, I just ignore them. Try that, why don't you?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:35 AM on December 14, 2005


Kirth, every couple of weeks we do get a post to the grey asking "why was this thread deleted?" This led me to believe that it would be useful to post to a thread why one has flagged it.
posted by solid-one-love at 8:38 AM on December 14, 2005


Thanks Jess. Now it seems time to close this thread. No good will come of it and the FPP is already deleted.
posted by caddis at 8:40 AM on December 14, 2005


A suicide story about a little known person could of course be front page material if there is good writing or interesting background or some nuance of depth.

Quite. By the looks of it, this poor bloke's death is a high profile suicide, and there's no shortage of links to suicide statistics, moral debate around suicide, creepy suicide tips 'n' trick fora, etc. etc.

Nasty thread. And solid-one-love - protesting too much, no? Looks like you're rather enjoying trying to make 'it all about you' at this point.
posted by jack_mo at 8:44 AM on December 14, 2005


"Unless they're abusing the place, I just ignore them."

This was abusing the place.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:45 AM on December 14, 2005


I would like to take note of the evolving meaning of the "."

I agree this isn't worth a FPP. I agree that if the guy wasn't on Daily Show there wouldn't even be a story here.
Even so:
.

(Although the preface kind of misses the whole point of a . )
posted by JHarris at 4:40 AM EST on December 14

I noticed in a thread last week that people made comments and then said, "oh yeah, and . " Given that the "." used to stand for "I am sad but I have nothing to say, or nothing to add" or "I am wordless" I guess we now have to change the meaning to "I am sad" or "I am sorry."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:00 AM on December 14, 2005


This was abusing the place.
posted by Ethereal Bligh


I have noted your opinion. Even though I don't think it was a good post, I don't think it was abusive. Obviously you have much higher standards than I do.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:12 AM on December 14, 2005


Looks like you're rather enjoying trying to make 'it all about you' at this point.

Well, y'know, when people like you come in and misquote me and keep on bringing it down to a personal level, I think it's reasonable to call people on it, as I'm now doing with you. Was your little snipe useful? Did it make you feel like a big man? Or was it just more of the prototypical Meta personal snark that we've all come to expect?

Again, it's not about me. And I'm not offended by personal attacks. But I feel honourbound to respond to them. That doesn't suggest or imply in the slightest that I "enjoy" it when someone decides that a comment of mine was so uncomfortable and impossible to respond to in a reasoned manner that their only recourse was to take a shot at me.

In conclusion, grow the fuck up.
posted by solid-one-love at 9:23 AM on December 14, 2005


solid-one-love: most ironic username ever.
posted by eyeballkid at 9:43 AM on December 14, 2005


grow the fuck up.

Matt, can you please make this phrase go the way of the <big> tag? Just replace with an empty string on input. And maybe add an automagical 'offensive content' flag to the rest of the comment in the process.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:47 AM on December 14, 2005


Kirth, every couple of weeks we do get a post to the grey asking "why was this thread deleted?" This led me to believe that it would be useful to post to a thread why one has flagged it.

And every day we have a dozen or more complaints in the blue about the quality of the posts that the commenters don't like. To me, the smell of those completely overpowers the scent of the "why was it deleted" threads. I may agree with you that a post is a waste of time, as I do in this case. What I don't get is how it's a good use of more of your time to post a comment about what a waste of time it is. It's not useful to me, and I really can't see how it's useful to you.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:54 AM on December 14, 2005


Yeah, keep on making it about me. That'll end well.

/waits patiently
posted by yerfatma at 10:00 AM on December 14, 2005


What I don't get is how it's a good use of more of your time to post a comment about what a waste of time it is. It's not useful to me, and I really can't see how it's useful to you.

And, again, it may be useful to the poster. Need I make it any plainer?

eyeballkid: Everything I do here I do out of love.
posted by solid-one-love at 10:21 AM on December 14, 2005


People don't like having "tragedy" shoved in their face. Posting it the front page was as disrespectful and thoughtless as any of the comments.
posted by cillit bang at 10:22 AM on December 14, 2005

Ethereal Bligh: This was abusing the place.
I'm happy to know that the MeFi Defenders are on the job, as usual.
posted by lodurr at 10:39 AM on December 14, 2005


...it may be useful to the poster.

Then please post once, and move on. If you want to be helpful, use the flag system and/or email the person who posted the thread; don't derail their thread to be helpful, even if you think it's a lousy thread. No matter how you might intend it, it comes across as not-helpful, especially in the thread in question here.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM on December 14, 2005


Everything I do here I do out of love.
posted by Pot at 11:06 AM on December 14, 2005


Would that be self love?
posted by Kettle at 11:06 AM on December 14, 2005


Then please post once, and move on.

I did so; I posted once and moved on. I was then attacked, and responded to those attacks. I didn't derail any thread. I participated in the derail once it had already occurred. Please do not take me to task for consequences for which I am not responsible.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:12 AM on December 14, 2005


(Oh, the irony of a pair of sockpuppets implying that my postings are masturbatory.)
posted by solid-one-love at 11:14 AM on December 14, 2005


(indeed)
posted by Pot at 11:17 AM on December 14, 2005


i use kleenex puppets.
posted by wakko at 11:17 AM on December 14, 2005


Then please post once, and move on. If you want to be helpful, use the flag system and/or email the person who posted the thread; don't derail their thread to be helpful, even if you think it's a lousy thread. No matter how you might intend it, it comes across as not-helpful, especially in the thread in question here.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM PST on December 14 [!]


Jessamyn, there are people on this site who behave this way time and again and nothing is done about it. If it's okay for those certain people, then it should be okay for solid-one-love to complain within a post, as well.
posted by Rothko at 11:17 AM on December 14, 2005


Pot's an asshole, so I get to be an asshole, too.
posted by Kettle at 11:19 AM on December 14, 2005


Well, y'know, when people like you come in and misquote me

you mean when scarabic quoted you with complete and total accuracy, not only in word but in meaning?

And I'm not offended by personal attacks.

Yes you are.
posted by shmegegge at 11:20 AM on December 14, 2005


I know of at least one bad little boy who isn't getting his Xbox 360 for Christmas this year.
posted by crunchland at 11:21 AM on December 14, 2005


Yes, jessamyn, solid-one-love feels that the gloves are off once the first punch is thrown, and you're just gonna have to suck it up and deal with that. Sorry.
posted by Gator at 11:24 AM on December 14, 2005


you mean when scarabic quoted you with complete and total accuracy, not only in word but in meaning?

Actually, no, he didn't. He quoted me as writing "all about me". I did not write "all," and this does change the meaning.

Thank you for your care and consideration when leaping into the subject. Your valued contribution will be admired by all.

Yes you are.

Further proof that ESP doesn't work; shmegegge implies that he is able to read my mind, but has failed to do so.

And I note that someone has called the Troll Squad, as I'm seeing 'blocked post' after Crunchland's worthless excreta. It'll only be a matter of minutes, I'm sure, before one noted sociopath shows up to get his digs in.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:30 AM on December 14, 2005


s-o-l finally installed Firefox at work, I see. Somebody quote me so that he can see what a missed opportunity for further indignant posturing he's blocked!
posted by Gator at 11:35 AM on December 14, 2005


MetaFilter: Somebody quote me

/How's that?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:37 AM on December 14, 2005


I was going to try and refrain from jumping on the pile-on, but I looked at solid-one-love's profile in an attempt to gain more insight... and... well...

And if you don't know what you're talking about, shut the fuck up. And if you're trying to derail a thread by whining about how it's been covered so many times before, it may not have been covered adequately by all participants. Again, shut the fuck up.

You know who you are.


DOOD. I made a post about how MeFites are lacking empathy and you're turning it into a whine fest/trainwreck/flame out about how no one understands you.

I'd quit the internets in shame at how this just goes to prove my point, but I think it would be more productive to just call pig-pile on this guy.

PIG. PILE.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 11:38 AM on December 14, 2005


*digs ganja*
posted by If I Had An Anus at 11:39 AM on December 14, 2005


Hey solid,

You assface, killfile me please, you fucking tiny little baby twerp attention whore. You will never have to again see me explain that you have literally no idea what a sociopath is, but please stay around mefi, you might end up in a hundred post thread where your posts are the only ones you can read and that'll be the best Christmas ever, right?

I am sparticus.
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:39 AM on December 14, 2005


don't derail their thread to be helpful, even if you think it's a lousy thread.

Since this is allowed to happen all the time in the blue as long as one's username is composed of the name of a city in France and that of a city in New Jersey, how can anyone be expected to take this advice seriously?
posted by wakko at 11:45 AM on December 14, 2005


They have cities in New Jersey, now?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:46 AM on December 14, 2005


Has everyone been having a bad week or something?
posted by drezdn at 11:54 AM on December 14, 2005


Week? You mean "year and a half", don't you?
posted by lodurr at 12:10 PM on December 14, 2005


More like a year and 26 days. ;-)
posted by solid-one-love at 12:17 PM on December 14, 2005


Since the election began? (Oh, that's right, this is about you...)
posted by lodurr at 12:20 PM on December 14, 2005


I was trying to point at November 18, 2004, the day that many new members, including myself, joined up, but failed to make the connection clearer.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:30 PM on December 14, 2005


Well, then, it's all about us: We want to make it about the new members, but it's clearly not. It started well before the $5 homested act.
posted by lodurr at 12:43 PM on December 14, 2005


we are not going to have a son_of_minya moment are we?
posted by edgeways at 12:52 PM on December 14, 2005


we are not going to have a son_of_minya moment are we?

One can dream.
posted by eyeballkid at 12:56 PM on December 14, 2005


ahhh that was classic. I don't bookmark threads, but if I was to, that'd be the one
posted by edgeways at 1:01 PM on December 14, 2005


I really don't know what people think is served by actively derailing a thread you don't like.

If you don't like it, complain in MeTa. If it's not worth your time to complain in MeTa about it, maybe you should just ignore it and see if anybody who happens to have liked the thread can salvage it.
posted by empath at 1:09 PM on December 14, 2005


Oh, yes, the "pile on 'til they cry" is certainly one of Metafilter's more attractive standard examples of mass-bullying. I think it's topped only by the "pile on 'til they cry and then call them a pussy for complaining."

By all means, let's do all we can to preserve the practice of mobbing the spotted chicken.
posted by lodurr at 1:13 PM on December 14, 2005


Hey, everybody! lodurr has spots! Get 'im!
posted by cortex at 1:17 PM on December 14, 2005


The real question is: is "Spotted Chicken" worth $5.00?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:19 PM on December 14, 2005


What's $5 among friends?
Jenna Bush snorkelled coke out of my vagina.
posted by Likable Lefty at 1:28 PM on December 14, 2005


Peck away, boys. I'll either fight back like Bozo in a pudding bath or get bored and go make dinner. Can't promise which, though.

Since regular chicken goes for about $1.69/lb around here, I woudln't think spotted would be worth $5. Unless you like getting taken on your poultry.
posted by lodurr at 1:30 PM on December 14, 2005


lodurr: "Unless you like getting taken on your poultry."

I like getting taken anywhere I can.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:32 PM on December 14, 2005


you mean when scarabic quoted you with complete and total accuracy, not only in word but in meaning?

Actually, no, he didn't. He quoted me as writing "all about me". I did not write "all," and this does change the meaning.


Um...where exactly did I quote you as using the phrase "all about me?" Either I am blind or you don't have any idea what being quoted means, or you are simply trying any possible way to squirm out of the fact that you made a really ugly comment and now look like an asshole. Squirmy, as an adjective, doth not combine with asshole to make a prettier picture.

Looks like you're rather enjoying trying to make 'it all about you' at this point.

If this is the comment you are referring to, it was posted by jack_mo. If you're going to get your panties in a bunch about being misquoted, try a little accuracy yourself.
posted by scarabic at 3:45 PM on December 14, 2005


Cha-CHING!
posted by squirrel at 4:01 PM on December 14, 2005


Um...where exactly did I quote you as using the phrase "all about me?"

I made an error. Sorry for the misattribution.

or you are simply trying any possible way to squirm out of the fact that you made a really ugly comment and now look like an asshole

I made no ugly comment. I am an asshole and I gladly admit it, but not for anything that I have written in that thread or this one. There's nothing to squirm out of. I stand behind my opening statement in the other thread; it wasn't the least bit ugly or offensive in my eyes. He was the frickin' receptionist. It wasn't newsworthy. It wasn't FPP-worthy.
posted by solid-one-love at 4:05 PM on December 14, 2005


Wow. I've never understood why people get themselves so worked up over the content of an online message board.

Here's a suggestion, solid-one-love. If you don't like a thread, then don't participate in it. It's not like there's any shortage of such arenas online. The specious claim that a particular post is a waste of time is demonstrably contradictory, in that the complainant then actively chooses to spend their own time complaining, instead of simply moving on to something else.

Nothing will ever be gained by vitriolic personal aspersions and inflammatory attacks within threads.

Seriously.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 4:52 PM on December 14, 2005


It's not FPP material, and the ensuing "discussion" proves why- there's not much worthwhile to say on the topic.

I think the "discussion" proved that a lot of people don't know how to deal with death and/or are dicks. Unfortunately, not much else.

I'm glad it was posted, despite the fact that I can't think of a single thing to say in the thread... other than:

.
posted by I Love Tacos at 5:12 PM on December 14, 2005


It's Raining Florence Henderson: I like getting taken anywhere I can.

Have I got the boy for you....
posted by lodurr at 5:28 PM on December 14, 2005


I've crossed swords with solid-one-love in the past, but he's done nothing to merit this level of nastiness. He made a perfectly justified comment on a completely worthless post, and he's been quite reasonably defending himself here. Some people sure do love a pile-on.
posted by languagehat at 6:29 PM on December 14, 2005


I think that what is happening here is a matter of perception. Taken in one light SOL's comment can be seen as not only saying the FPP is lame (which most people seem to agree with), but that this person's death doesn't matter.
I quote one of his comments -fully-

Seriously, cry me a fucking river. I've had two friends commit suicide. This guy was no more important than they were, and they certainly didn't get an FPP.

Yeah, tragic suicide blah blah young man blah blah so much to live for blah blah.

Nobody here cares, and anyone who says that they do is full of shit. This is a bad FPP, and Item is still the biggest asshole in the room.


Which can saound pretty harsh.
two seperate issues.

1) bad fpp.

2) the treatment of someone's death (even if it doesn't merit a fpp) to many people merits some amount of respect, which SOL shows none of and _seems to_ say "so what, just another death", and rather dismissivly at that. Which if this was his intention I would say a pile on seems appropiate. There does seem to be some wiggle room in interpretation if you make the interpretation that what he is saying is along the lines of... everyone's life is equally valuable. Which, if this was the intent it was poorly expressed.

Rather then clear up the matter SOL seems to prefer to want to protect his honor, which on an online community is near a waste of time.
posted by edgeways at 6:56 PM on December 14, 2005


Ahem ...

He made a perfectly justified comment on a completely worthless post

he's been quite reasonably defending himself

posted by languagehat at 6:29 PM PST on December 14 [!]

Seriously, cry me a fucking river. I've had two friends commit suicide. This guy was no more important than they were, and they certainly didn't get an FPP.

Yeah, tragic suicide blah blah young man blah blah so much to live for blah blah.

Nobody here cares, and anyone who says that they do is full of shit. This is a bad FPP, and Item is still the biggest asshole in the room
.


In conclusion, grow the fuck up.


I'd say it's likely a good thing that not everyone subscribes to your definition of justified or reasonable then, languagehat. Such a tone is hardly conducive to respectful discourse. I fail to see how such language furthers anything other than bitterness.

In his egocentric rage over being misquoted, he used this incredibly offensive language toward a person he wrongly attributed with the statement . I'd say that it's only prudent to be on really firm ground before you yell at someone to grow the fuck up.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 6:57 PM on December 14, 2005


Cripes.

Those posts must have been about one second apart, edgeways. Sorry about that.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 6:59 PM on December 14, 2005


I've never understood why people get themselves so worked up over the content of an online message board.

And yet you keep coming back. Funny, that.
posted by mediareport at 7:36 PM on December 14, 2005


This thread needs and elephant and you know what it it doing.
posted by caddis at 7:57 PM on December 14, 2005


Some people sure do love a pile-on.

Everyone loves Dr. Blazecock.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:03 PM on December 14, 2005


I really don't know what people think is served by actively derailing a thread you don't like.

Most users don't read MetaTalk.

Pissing in a thread says "Don't do it again." And it works. Mob vigilantism is ugly.

The post was crap; it got a predictable response.

What did you want, 25-30 dots and no discussion? There's not much to talk about when no one anyone knows dies.

I think that everybody on Metafilter is mean b/c they hate their jobs, or they hate spending so much time at their jobs. I guess I'm making it all about me. One love!
posted by mrgrimm at 8:23 PM on December 14, 2005



posted by caddis at 8:36 PM on December 14, 2005


Nice cock, caddis.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:39 PM on December 14, 2005


I've had two friends commit suicide.

I think this is the core issue. solid-one-love's reaction was based on the fact that one person's suicide seemed to be getting more attention than others.

I personally don't think that's really what the post was about. I thought it was about the Daily Show, and how when you're cranking out a high-quality live show every. single. day. basic human tragedies can actually bring the entire production to its knees. I think it's interesting how this works, how a comedic show processes tragedy, how they get up and carry on after losing one of their own.

That's the point of interest. It's true that people die all the time for a variety of reasons. The decision to show up and piss on the dead was not called for. It's never called for. I appreciate your playing the devil's advocate, languagehat, and the pileon need not continue.
posted by scarabic at 8:43 PM on December 14, 2005


To make a more useful contribution (for once), I think people piss in threads because it works. If the thread had been nicer, would the post have been deleted?

Flagging is a great idea, but it needs more visibility. Perhaps a running count of "Flagged for deletion" that's visible in the thread?
posted by mrgrimm at 8:44 PM on December 14, 2005


The specious claim that a particular post is a waste of time is demonstrably contradictory

Except that I never called it a waste of time; I labelled it unworthy of an FPP. The remainder of your posts contain similar misreadings. I admit to mine, at least.
posted by solid-one-love at 9:18 PM on December 14, 2005


I think people piss in threads because it works

I agree with you there. Just the other day when we were dicsussing whether comments about the quality of the thread were appropriate, I said yes, they were. People think twice (if they think at all) before posting here because of the torrent of ridicule which will pummel them if they don't. Plain and simple.

Now pissing on the dead... that's not so useful.
posted by scarabic at 9:22 PM on December 14, 2005


Dude. You can't win. Quote him precisely, you lose. Paraphrase what he says, you lose. No matter what you say, he will calmly defend himself until the sun goes down. I think that the only thing which can be done at this point is to bait him further and further until he's posted 200 comments to defend his pissing-upon-the-dead and expound on how little he cares about this discussion.
posted by scarabic at 9:25 PM on December 14, 2005


The best part is that one of the admins delivered a very rare public (yet mild) chastisement, and he quietly retorted that she should not "take him to task" for the derail that he admits participating in.
posted by Gator at 9:33 PM on December 14, 2005


I'm hardly getting myself all worked up over a thread, mediareport. You don't see me spewing profanity all over the front page, calling other posters assholes, and challenging all comers to bring it on. The frikken spellcheck almost locked up from all the crude words not in the dictionary, when I directly quoted soldid-one-love, in my post above.

Now go ahead and defend that kind of attitude and language all you want, but you can hardly categorize my comments here as being anywhere near that level of rhetoric. As to your comment that I keep coming back, what makes you think I've ever left.

*refreshes screen obsessively*
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 9:50 PM on December 14, 2005


Dude. You can't win.

Well, no kidding.

I think that the only thing which can be done at this point is to bait him further and further until he's posted 200 comments to defend his pissing-upon-the-dead and expound on how little he cares about this discussion.

I don't rise to bait, I never "pissed upon the dead", and I never indicated that I didn't care about this discussion. Other than that, you're exactly right.
posted by solid-one-love at 9:52 PM on December 14, 2005


solid-one-love, I hate to break it to you man, but you took out your dick, waved it around for all to see and proceeded to let loose a golden stream upon many, including, I'm once again sorry tell you, The Dead. I suspect it wasn't your intention, but let's face it, sometimes one can get so carried away with all that dick one is so proud to be waving that accidents happen. That's why so many people are asking (some more so than others) you to please, keep it in your pants next time.
posted by aspo at 11:08 PM on December 14, 2005


this means that you were, in fact, quoted rather than misquoted.

furthermore, your responses thus far go a good deal toward demonstrating that you do, in fact, take offense at personal attacks. quite a bit more so than any amount of you denying it could prove the opposite.

saying "person x isn't important enough to merit my attention" or "the attention of this website" if you prefer is called speaking ill of the dead, especially in the tone of voice you used. People here don't like that, and they have reason not to. You've said you don't care and that you're an asshole. If people continue to tell you that they don't appreciate you being an asshole, it's because you're totally unrepentant of the fact. If you don't like people calling you on your shit, then take your ball and go home.
posted by shmegegge at 12:03 AM on December 15, 2005


"And I'm not offended by personal attacks. But I feel honourbound to respond to them."

Why?

I understand why I often reply to things when I shouldn't: I get disproportionately worked up about things some times, and probably should relax instead of posting angrily. But "honour"? Fook, man, ya gonna duel next? I'll say to you what folks should say to me when I'm gettin' bent out of shape: Chill out, you mongoloid. Having "enemies" on a website is, like, the most retarded thing ever. (Seriously, a killfile?)
posted by klangklangston at 12:23 AM on December 15, 2005


Nazis. Hitler.

Does that wrap it up?

Move on now.
posted by Frasermoo at 2:12 AM on December 15, 2005


There's not much to talk about when no one anyone knows dies.

Actually, entire movies have been made with that premise.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:14 AM on December 15, 2005

mrgrimm: Pissing in a thread says "Don't do it again." And it works.
I think you're reading Metafilter in some other dimension than I am. In this dimension, pissing in the thread "works" only if your purpose is to create lots of long threads that are ankle-deep in piss.
posted by lodurr at 3:46 AM on December 15, 2005


Here's the secret to Solid-one-love's strategy : the best defense is a good offense. I hadn't heard of this user until yesterday. Here's to the hope that he fades back into obscurity.
posted by crunchland at 4:33 AM on December 15, 2005


I'm not defending solid-one-love's comments in toto. Obviously remarks like:
Item is still the biggest asshole in the room.
and
In conclusion, grow the fuck up.
are nasty and, depending on your point of view, uncalled for. They are also par for the course on MeFi. That's not what this is about; this is about his "pissing on the dead," which is just ridiculous. The dead are dead, the dead guy from the TV show doesn't give a shit, and hopefully his friends and relatives aren't reading MeFi; if they are and are upset, the fault is no one's but the original poster, who should have known better than to make a dumbass post about some guy from a TV show who committed suicide. (Oh yeah, and they tore up the script of the show and had a tribute! OMG!!) It's 100% certain that such a post is going to attract putdowns and snarks, some of them quite nasty; if you toss your favorite goldfish in the shark tank, don't get all bent out of shape when the sharks gobble it up.

If someone I cared about who was unknown to the general public died, the last thing I'd do is post about it on MeFi. That's not what MeFi is for.
posted by languagehat at 5:53 AM on December 15, 2005


l-hat, you're right that it's not what MeFi is for. You're right that an FPP like that draws responses from 'sharks'. I don't agree that it's the poster's fault that the sharks slither in and gobble up whatever goodness may be in a thread. The sharks choose to do that, and they deserve the grief they get for doing it. If the people who didn't like the suicide post had just ignored it, or flagged it, or sent the poster an email, they wouldn't be defending their "honour" here in the gray.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:33 AM on December 15, 2005

languagehat: are nasty and, depending on your point of view, uncalled for. They are also par for the course on MeFi. That's not what this is about; this is about his "pissing on the dead," which is just ridiculous. The dead are dead, the dead guy from the TV show doesn't give a shit, and hopefully his friends and relatives aren't reading MeFi; if they are and are upset, the fault is no one's but the original poster, who should have known better than to make a dumbass post about some guy from a TV show who committed suicide.
Because, of course, we should never expect anything better of anybody, once things have gone to hell.

Just to be clear on this: Your position would be that MeFi is what it is, and anyone who complains about that is a whiner?
posted by lodurr at 7:04 AM on December 15, 2005


My position is that MeFi is what it is, and anyone who complains about that is wasting their time. Seriously, what does anyone hope to accomplish by complaining about excessive snarking here? This is not the Peoria Ladies' Sewing Circle, and I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who are shocked by that fact. And what exactly is the rule of Human Goodness that requires solemn reverence every time a death is mentioned, even if the corpse is that of someone unknown to anyone in the room? I'm not saying you shouldn't feel that way, just that if you do, MeFi's not the best place to hang out. I hope that's clear enough.
posted by languagehat at 7:52 AM on December 15, 2005


Then why should anybody bother to ever change how things are done here?
posted by lodurr at 7:56 AM on December 15, 2005


My position is that MeFi is what it is, and anyone who complains about that is wasting their time.
posted by languagehat at 7:52 AM PST on December 15


*posts religion thread*
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:02 AM on December 15, 2005


I don't rise to bait

LOL! I have news for you, friend.
posted by scarabic at 8:04 AM on December 15, 2005


Then why should anybody bother to ever change how things are done here?

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't mean MeFi is frozen in stone and there's no point trying to do anything about anything. MeFi, like most human creations, is messy and complicated, and it's always zipping off in a million different directions, some of which are dumb and need to be nipped in the bud. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the Essential MeFi, the MeFi that is, was, and ever shall be, and snark is a basic part of that. If people didn't make snotty remarks about bad posts, regardless of whether the post is about something that some people find terribly sensitive, it wouldn't be MeFi. There's no point complaining about that, is what I meant. By all means complain about double posts, pr0n links, &c.
posted by languagehat at 9:45 AM on December 15, 2005


Definitely complain about posts. But if the basis of your complaint is that only people with high-station careers deserve mention when they pass, expect snarkback (which is also a wonderful part of The Essential MeFi).
posted by scarabic at 10:04 AM on December 15, 2005


And what exactly is the rule of Human Goodness that requires solemn reverence every time a death is mentioned?

No, but really, was showing off how hard you are a good reason not to show at least a little respect? It's not like s-o-l was being funny, or clever, or even well written. No he was just being an asshole and proud of it. Yay assholes! We don't get a lot of those on the internet. What a refreshing change of pace!
posted by aspo at 10:05 AM on December 15, 2005


.... the Essential MeFi, the MeFi that is, was, and ever shall be....

"In a time that never was, and a place that shall always be...."

What you're talking about is enforcing your idea of what MeFi is and ought to be. You're saying that you know what the "essential MeFi" is, and the whiners don't. You know better, in other words.

And hey, you know -- if that's what you're about, I guess that's cool. Will to Power and all that good stuff. Make Metafilter what you will.

Just don't complain when people smack you for it. Because, you know, "snark is a basic part of that. If people didn't make snotty remarks about bad posts" then they'd just be letting you walk all over them. And it would be pretty unimaginative of you to expect them to do that.
posted by lodurr at 10:08 AM on December 15, 2005


Oh one more thing... Tlogmer explained exactly why this post was bad and in poor taste. Clearly, respectfully, and without turning the whole thread into a bunch of people yelling at each other. Yay Tlogmer, boo solid-one-love.
posted by aspo at 10:08 AM on December 15, 2005


What a bunch of arrogant fucks. You low-number boys are so amazingly full of yourselves sometimes, I just shake my head in wonder and chuckle out loud.

I'd say that Matt does the web a great service by keeping all your attentions focused here, but the web is full of this crap -- pompus blowhards giving each other pretty little beatings so that everyone feels like they've been noticed.

You may not have karma scores, but you've got even better: A subtler, more natural pecking order -- something that's hard to game by process, that you have to expend energy and display style to prosper within. Echo chamber, circle jerk, call it what you will -- y'all will get what you make, you get it every day. Nobody should ever complain. At least, not when what they're complaining about is anything other than violating the "essentialness" of metafilterality.

That essence, really, is little more than school bullying. That's all. People with a talent for avoiding bullying can do alright here; but it's better for you if you can dish it out a little, too. And if you're really good at it, you can become a cult figure.

In practice the political factions end up being nothing more than schoolyard cliques -- not really even street gangs -- posturing and counting-coup to stake claim to territory moral or aesthetic. The rest of us are just spectators to your little shows, though now and then one of us gets caught in the meat-grinder. It's especially brutal when someone tries to play with the "low-boys" and, for whatever reason, offends their sense of propriety wth regard to the "essential metafilter."

So, people who profess to be concerned about Metafilter and its future need to undertand that by choosing to try to continually re-make it in whatever their vision of the "essential" metafilter is, they are always and inevitably making it something new.

News flash: There is no "essential metafilter." There never was. But then, languagehat knew that before he said it -- he was jsut snarking. Cuz, you know, that's part of the essential metafilter....

[/thisisnottheessentialmetafilter-filter]
posted by lodurr at 10:25 AM on December 15, 2005


Wow. I try to defend solid-one-love against the mob, and lodurr goes on a long rant about how I'm dying to rule MeFi with an iron fist.
*shakes head in wonderment*
posted by languagehat at 11:43 AM on December 15, 2005


... a long rant about how I'm dying to rule MeFi with an iron fist.

Oh, yeah, and: Really selective reading comprehension; I forgot about that one.
posted by lodurr at 11:46 AM on December 15, 2005


ludurr,

Wow, as someone who's been around for a decent while (10k-something) but still considers myself to be a long ways away from the pecking order, I'd have to say that your rambling diatribe was, well, a rambling diatribe. I don't get it. (Especially since languagehat (with whom I totally disagree, by the way) has a user number barely a thousand places lower than yours.)

You've been here a long time, and posted a lot more than many people of my, uh, vintage. If you hate it so much and resent so many of the people who do define the place, why stay? I'll just never understand that.
posted by Sinner at 12:31 PM on December 15, 2005


Furthermore, the initial post was by ignition, with a 20k user number, and the immediate reply came from s-o-l, a 17k user. Maybe I'm just not following your logic here, but I fail to see how this reduces to being about cliques.
posted by Sinner at 12:35 PM on December 15, 2005


Well, sinner, when the numbers get up to 30K, 14K is a low number. Honestly, I didn't look at languagehat's user number, but he was sure acting like someone who was graced by God and a fortunate lottery number with some special knowledge, so I treated him accordingly.

And anyway, you know what they say: There's none more zealous than the whore turned respectable bourgousie passing himself off as upper-crust a middle-number goon passing himself off as Old MeFi.

In any case, the thread was initiated by someone who gave a shit. That, languagehat was good enough to inform us, was wrong. It's foolish to care; it's foolish to have expectations that deviate from the Essential Metafilter.

It really does make me laugh, especially when I see the schizophrenic contortions that a lot of the Mefiati get up to in these gray threads, flagellating one another for being what's wrong with Metafilter. Languagehat really does have the only real solution to their problem: Burrow deep into a nostalgic MeFi of your own creation and never admit that the "essence" is anythign other than what you like best (which in his case, would seem to be "snark").
posted by lodurr at 12:43 PM on December 15, 2005


Um, yeah, what Sinner said.

Who, exactly, are the "low-number boys" in this thread, lodurr? If you're referring to languagehat, then rest assured that even he is but a stripling n00b to one such as I, with many thousands fewer increments in my user number.

Yawwwn. What? Is that boy out of line again?

WHAP!!

There you go. He'll behave now. Or I'll rain down wrath from my lofty perch upon his 14-something head, whereupon all his comments will be flagged incessantly, his hair will fall out, and his beer will taste sour at meetups forever.
posted by scarabic at 12:46 PM on December 15, 2005


Actually, if you get to know languagehat (by, like, oh, I dunno, maybe by being here a while?) then you will learn that he is, in fact, endowed by the grace of god with special knowledge. Just in an ordinary way, not the solid-gold-duodenum way you imply.
posted by scarabic at 12:48 PM on December 15, 2005


Mefiati

Heh. What the hell is that? Mama Haughey's version of lasagne?
posted by scarabic at 12:53 PM on December 15, 2005


(by, like, oh, I dunno, maybe by being here a while?)

How silly of me to offer my thoughts based on a mere three years and three months of observation. I should wait until I have at least three years and four months. And then I should be sure to do it in a way that's properly respectful to the Essential Metafilter.

Oh, and thank you for swatting him for me; that was so not an illustration of exactly what I was talking about.

on prev: fuggetaboutit, whatsamatta, you got no culcha?
posted by lodurr at 1:00 PM on December 15, 2005


a mere three years and three months of observation

uh-oh! do I hear a note of seniority in your tone? ;)

elitist pìcio! we outter trow you inna rivva!
posted by scarabic at 1:11 PM on December 15, 2005


Normally I don't want to derail the derail, but since this thread isn't going anywhere, I feel somewhat more justified in doing so. Lodurr's comment and scarabic's follow-up have made me a bit curious: What exactly is a "low number" these days? In my mind, low numbers are sub 5- or 6k (really 1-2k). I still feel like a novice given how much had happened here prior to my arrival.

But as you pointed out, with 30k users, I guess I really don't know what other people think.

To some extent, I guess I do think that it's a grey area, based more on some combination of participation and user number...
posted by Sinner at 1:12 PM on December 15, 2005


Well, this all got me nostalgic, so I was looking for my old posts (couldn't find 'em, ain't easy to get the old stuff out of Google), but anyway....

There were cycles of enrollment. I believe that enrollment was closed at least three times; languagehat and I both enrolled not long after it was opened up (I think) the second time. I'm guessing Scarabic and you came in after it was reopened the first time. I think it was opened again at some point between '02 and '04, and then opened briefly in '04 sometime before the $5 Homestead Act.

Anyway, it used to be that people could eyeball the number and tell you when you enrolled. Most of the people with enough history to do that have gone, and anyway, people below 19K or so look like old-timers to the n00bs. To put it in John Ford Movie terms, it's a bit like the difference between mountain men, ranchers, and farmers, I think: Really low number people are mountain men; sort of low numbered people are ranchers; sub-19K ers are farmers; and everyone else is a dude.
posted by lodurr at 1:49 PM on December 15, 2005


I am a rancher! I produce dressing for Paul Newman! ph34r!
posted by cortex at 1:59 PM on December 15, 2005


I dunno. The user number thing is what you make of it. If you think that there's any kind of linear hierarchy between jonmc, languagehat, and It's Raining Florence Henderson, or any noticeable difference between how much weight they throw around or how others perceive them, I'd like to know what it is.
posted by scarabic at 2:34 PM on December 15, 2005


The user number thing is what you make of it.

Well, precisely.
posted by lodurr at 2:50 PM on December 15, 2005


Wow, scarabic. I must say that I'm more than a little surprised to see my name in that sentence. Pleased, but surprised.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:36 PM on December 15, 2005


Sadly, while I'm sure you all make excellent points, I have a special browser that displays posts in a font size inversely proportional to your user number.
I could therefore read scarcely any of them.
I believe this browser was devised by stavrosthewonderchickens' cardiologist in an attempt to save her patient from complete cardiac arrest on reading metafilter.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 6:27 PM on December 15, 2005


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