dtmfa! March 8, 2006 2:24 PM Subscribe
Why are people so "end the relationship"-happy on Ask Metafilter? I see a Newsweek article in 2010 discovering the cause behind the 10% increase in the divorce rate is the Little Green Website That Could ...
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup
Probably because a lot of people have been in bad relationships that they wish they'd gotten out of sooner.
Which is not to say that worthwhile relationships shouldn't or don't require some work, or that they won't have rough patches. But some relationships are nothing but rough patches held together by don't-know-better tape.
posted by cortex at 2:31 PM on March 8, 2006
Which is not to say that worthwhile relationships shouldn't or don't require some work, or that they won't have rough patches. But some relationships are nothing but rough patches held together by don't-know-better tape.
posted by cortex at 2:31 PM on March 8, 2006
Little Green Website That Could
are there footballs involved?
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:44 PM on March 8, 2006
are there footballs involved?
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:44 PM on March 8, 2006
I'd like to see a couple try a "help us fix our relationship" question where they both air both sides.
But on a realistic note, when you only hear one person's side of the story, the other persona invariably comes across like a bitch/bastard: even if the asker doesn't think of them that way.
posted by Paris Hilton at 2:51 PM on March 8, 2006
But on a realistic note, when you only hear one person's side of the story, the other persona invariably comes across like a bitch/bastard: even if the asker doesn't think of them that way.
posted by Paris Hilton at 2:51 PM on March 8, 2006
Because it's not their relationship and they don't really care?
Because a lot of people don't get that successful relationships sometimes require you to hang in through something you'd rather not?
posted by 27 at 2:52 PM on March 8, 2006
Because a lot of people don't get that successful relationships sometimes require you to hang in through something you'd rather not?
posted by 27 at 2:52 PM on March 8, 2006
perhaps by the time people see the need to post a question about their relationship on a big semi- anonymous website it might be a good indicator that there is some serious trouble. I've read somewhere that advice columnists have a standard abbreviation for 90% of the mail they get, DTMFA, dump the M.F already. (or perhaps that came from when I read Savage for a month or two a few years back)
posted by edgeways at 2:53 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by edgeways at 2:53 PM on March 8, 2006
Oh man, we would so suck as marriage counselors.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 2:53 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by Saucy Intruder at 2:53 PM on March 8, 2006
People are also pretty "Begin the relationship!" happy here. I think, given the constraints of the medium, we're all just pretty much trying to help each other lead happy lives.
Think of it this way -- If you see a friend in a situation that's making one of your firends miserable, don't you want to help him out of the situation? To protect him from hurt? That's kind of what friends do, a lot of the time.
posted by occhiblu at 2:55 PM on March 8, 2006
Think of it this way -- If you see a friend in a situation that's making one of your firends miserable, don't you want to help him out of the situation? To protect him from hurt? That's kind of what friends do, a lot of the time.
posted by occhiblu at 2:55 PM on March 8, 2006
Because it's usually for the best? Because we want people to be happy? Because the odds are better of finding happiness if you give up on an unhappy situation? Because most of us have found happiness after moving on? Because typically the grass actually is greener on the other side (or the issue wouldn't even come up)? Because struggling to save a bad situation is a bad idea? Because he/she is clearly an asshole/whore?
I think those are all legitimate answers to your concern.
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:56 PM on March 8, 2006
I think those are all legitimate answers to your concern.
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:56 PM on March 8, 2006
Whoa, that got garbled. Sorry. "If you see a friend in a situation that's making him miserable, don't you want to help him out of the situation?"
posted by occhiblu at 2:56 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by occhiblu at 2:56 PM on March 8, 2006
...I think, given the constraints of the medium, we're all just pretty much trying to help each other lead happy lives...
posted by occhiblu at 2:55 PM PST on March 8
Okay, I have never done one of these before, so you'll have to forgive me.
Ask Metafilter: We're all just pretty much trying to help each other lead happy lives.
posted by ND¢ at 2:59 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by occhiblu at 2:55 PM PST on March 8
Okay, I have never done one of these before, so you'll have to forgive me.
Ask Metafilter: We're all just pretty much trying to help each other lead happy lives.
posted by ND¢ at 2:59 PM on March 8, 2006
Upon further review, I think Gator and Paris Hilton pretty much nailed it.
posted by 27 at 3:01 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by 27 at 3:01 PM on March 8, 2006
I said exactly the same thing awhile back. For a couple reasons, I chose not to speculate why in that comment; but since you've asked directly, I think it's the same reason why reality TV is successful. People like to feel superior. The cheapest and easiest road to that emotion is by knocking down someone else, and telling a guy's wife to kick him to the curb is a quick fix.
posted by cribcage at 3:05 PM on March 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by cribcage at 3:05 PM on March 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
Misery loves company.
posted by crunchland at 3:17 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by crunchland at 3:17 PM on March 8, 2006
I agree with occhiblu's optimistic interpretation of human nature. I disagree with cribcage's.
With very little to go on except a couple blocks of text, a lot of filling in the blanks has to go in. And most people do that by bringing in their own experience into it.
So, I'd like to see more responses that say "Yes, me and my husband went through such a thing and we stuck with it and now things are great! Don't give up!" but the lack of them may be more telling about how these cases usually end up, as y6y6y6 points out.
posted by vacapinta at 3:18 PM on March 8, 2006
With very little to go on except a couple blocks of text, a lot of filling in the blanks has to go in. And most people do that by bringing in their own experience into it.
So, I'd like to see more responses that say "Yes, me and my husband went through such a thing and we stuck with it and now things are great! Don't give up!" but the lack of them may be more telling about how these cases usually end up, as y6y6y6 points out.
posted by vacapinta at 3:18 PM on March 8, 2006
Because people who spend a lot of time on the Internet tend to be introverted and solipsistic and naturally adverse to demanding self-sacrificing "real world" relationships that marriages demand, especially when the other isn't a similar personality?
I haven't thought this through, but that was my initial reaction, and very likely partially wrong (like all hasty generalizations). I know there are some marriages which are abusive, and I agree that abusive relationships are bad and should be guarded against. But I think we over-apply the term abusive sometimes. Sometimes they just take work. I know that my marriage takes a lot of work and sacrifice which is why I don't post except when I am at work. Nights and weekends are my wife's time (except when she is out of town). I certainly couldn't sustain my marriage in a happy manner if I was involved on the Internet in my recreational time. But then again, everyone's relationship is different, so my experience is just anecdotal.
posted by dios at 3:38 PM on March 8, 2006
I haven't thought this through, but that was my initial reaction, and very likely partially wrong (like all hasty generalizations). I know there are some marriages which are abusive, and I agree that abusive relationships are bad and should be guarded against. But I think we over-apply the term abusive sometimes. Sometimes they just take work. I know that my marriage takes a lot of work and sacrifice which is why I don't post except when I am at work. Nights and weekends are my wife's time (except when she is out of town). I certainly couldn't sustain my marriage in a happy manner if I was involved on the Internet in my recreational time. But then again, everyone's relationship is different, so my experience is just anecdotal.
posted by dios at 3:38 PM on March 8, 2006
Why are people so "end the relationship"-happy on Ask Metafilter?
Because it's usually the solution, logically.
Ask is a great place to ask technical and matter-of-fact type of questions. The open-ended questions or ones that require a bit of intuition and instinct are harder to answer, because it's just text on a screen. There are no good answers for relationship questions.
But, if you evaluate each question logically like you would any other question, you could easily come to the conclusion based on the information given, that because you have a relationship that is making you unhappy, you could end the relationship, and be happy again after a while. By continuing the relationship, you have many unknowns as far as if it'll ever "work".
This is all very general, but this is my best guess. I've grown to think that most relationships are unable to last in the long term. I think accepting this is the first step towards being more realistic in general relationships and not deceiving yourself.
posted by cellphone at 3:40 PM on March 8, 2006
Because it's usually the solution, logically.
Ask is a great place to ask technical and matter-of-fact type of questions. The open-ended questions or ones that require a bit of intuition and instinct are harder to answer, because it's just text on a screen. There are no good answers for relationship questions.
But, if you evaluate each question logically like you would any other question, you could easily come to the conclusion based on the information given, that because you have a relationship that is making you unhappy, you could end the relationship, and be happy again after a while. By continuing the relationship, you have many unknowns as far as if it'll ever "work".
This is all very general, but this is my best guess. I've grown to think that most relationships are unable to last in the long term. I think accepting this is the first step towards being more realistic in general relationships and not deceiving yourself.
posted by cellphone at 3:40 PM on March 8, 2006
I should clarify that, in that I think that relationships require a balance of intuition/instinct and logic to maintain, not just an abundance of one.
posted by cellphone at 3:42 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by cellphone at 3:42 PM on March 8, 2006
how often does Dan Savage drop a "dump the motherfucker already" into his responses? It's not just us...
posted by hototogisu at 3:44 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by hototogisu at 3:44 PM on March 8, 2006
I think there's also a difference between marriage questions and relationships-that-are-not-marriage questions. Really, by definition, most relationships that are not marriage end, so the majority of them are going to hit irreconcilable problems.
From what I remember, I think people are slightly less likely to say "cut bait" on the questions coming from married folk.
posted by occhiblu at 3:47 PM on March 8, 2006
From what I remember, I think people are slightly less likely to say "cut bait" on the questions coming from married folk.
posted by occhiblu at 3:47 PM on March 8, 2006
When you're outside the situation, it's easy to tell someone to take some dramatic action. Quit smoking! Go on a diet! Get some exercise! Just do it!
Of course, when you're inside a situation, it's never that easy.
Computer networks don't lend themselves very well to nuanced communication, as everyone who's tried to be ironic or sarcastic knows. (Though, I must say that scody's relationship comments come the closest I've ever seen to the kind of nuanced communication I've ever seen on a computer. )
posted by jasper411 at 3:48 PM on March 8, 2006
Of course, when you're inside a situation, it's never that easy.
Computer networks don't lend themselves very well to nuanced communication, as everyone who's tried to be ironic or sarcastic knows. (Though, I must say that scody's relationship comments come the closest I've ever seen to the kind of nuanced communication I've ever seen on a computer. )
posted by jasper411 at 3:48 PM on March 8, 2006
I've answered two questions apparently that way; but I don't think that's a correct reading. I'm more a believer in fighting for a failing relationship than most people I know. But both those questions I answered were situations where the two people were very, very far apart from each other. In the first case, it was clear that the questioner was highly motivated to try to save the relationship but that the spouse was broadcasting signals that in her mind it was over and she had zero interest in trying to save it. In that situation, I'm sorry, but it's unrealistic to try to save the relationship. One person can't do it alone.
And in the second case, today's question about sex, someone had asked what happens when one person only wants sex a couple times a year and the other person wants it much more often and that's just the way it is with no room to compromise. Well, that's an example of an "irreconcilable difference". Some conflicts can't be solved.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:53 PM on March 8, 2006
And in the second case, today's question about sex, someone had asked what happens when one person only wants sex a couple times a year and the other person wants it much more often and that's just the way it is with no room to compromise. Well, that's an example of an "irreconcilable difference". Some conflicts can't be solved.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:53 PM on March 8, 2006
If AskMe keeps telling people to get out of bad relationships in 2006, wouldn't that help the divorce rate 5 years from now because people will learn and move on to more compatible partners?
posted by my sock puppet account at 3:57 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by my sock puppet account at 3:57 PM on March 8, 2006
I'd toss in a vote that most people who are asking those sorts of questions:
a) are in a seriously flawed relationship
b) know they need to leave it
c) really just want to hear some consensus that their decision is correct
Oddly, I was listening to an episode of This American Life earlier today, in which a love columnist was talking with Ira Glass. She noted that about 90% of her letters were about doomed relationships.
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:58 PM on March 8, 2006
a) are in a seriously flawed relationship
b) know they need to leave it
c) really just want to hear some consensus that their decision is correct
Oddly, I was listening to an episode of This American Life earlier today, in which a love columnist was talking with Ira Glass. She noted that about 90% of her letters were about doomed relationships.
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:58 PM on March 8, 2006
Quit smoking! Go on a diet! Get some exercise! Just do it!
Done, Done, Done and could you be more specific?
posted by I Love Tacos at 4:00 PM on March 8, 2006
Done, Done, Done and could you be more specific?
posted by I Love Tacos at 4:00 PM on March 8, 2006
Dios sounds like he travels in the real world. Good response.
posted by docpops at 4:25 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by docpops at 4:25 PM on March 8, 2006
"The cheapest and easiest road to that emotion is by knocking down someone else, and telling a guy's wife to kick him to the curb is a quick fix."
However........... I find that AskMe is full of the most objective and helpful advise you'll ever come across on a public forum. So I would lobby you that your response is more you just being superior, rather than a fair comment about AskMe advice.
Now MeTa on the other hand is the mother of all superior epeens.
posted by y6y6y6 at 4:28 PM on March 8, 2006
However........... I find that AskMe is full of the most objective and helpful advise you'll ever come across on a public forum. So I would lobby you that your response is more you just being superior, rather than a fair comment about AskMe advice.
Now MeTa on the other hand is the mother of all superior epeens.
posted by y6y6y6 at 4:28 PM on March 8, 2006
I've recommended that more than once, and the reason why is that I've been in a similar situation to that person and A) wish somebody had given that advice to me and B) wish that I'd taken it sooner.
I'm in a wonderfully happy relationship now, and life is too short to waste your time on bad ones, particularly when there are no children involved.
posted by empath at 4:37 PM on March 8, 2006
I'm in a wonderfully happy relationship now, and life is too short to waste your time on bad ones, particularly when there are no children involved.
posted by empath at 4:37 PM on March 8, 2006
Why are people so "end the relationship"-happy on Ask Metafilter?
Because that's how it is in the decadent West?
posted by dhruva at 4:38 PM on March 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
Because that's how it is in the decadent West?
posted by dhruva at 4:38 PM on March 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
Also, by the time somebody posts a question like that to ask mefi, they usually have their foot halfway out the door anyway, and they're looking for a push.
posted by empath at 4:38 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by empath at 4:38 PM on March 8, 2006
It's a fairly common response over at Something Awful, too.
"Sever. Fucking sever."
posted by keswick at 4:51 PM on March 8, 2006
"Sever. Fucking sever."
posted by keswick at 4:51 PM on March 8, 2006
I am in a happy relationship and I still want to tell people to end theirs. Basically, if they come moaning to the internet about it, 99% of the time you can go with "end it."
posted by fire&wings at 5:26 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by fire&wings at 5:26 PM on March 8, 2006
Also, by the time somebody posts a question like that to ask mefi, they usually have their foot halfway out the door anyway, and they're looking for a push.
Yep, I definitely think that's the case a fair amount of the time. Still, there have certainly been many questions in which ending the relationship isn't posed or offered as a solution at all -- questions that ask specifically about improving communication or helping to understand/support a partner, for example, are almost invariably met with plenty of advice for techniques to try, books to read, or types of counseling to pursue.
I'm also in a very happy relationship; the only "issue" I'm bringing to the table in answering these questions is the wish for others to find such happiness in their relationships -- which means recognizing when things can be fixed, and when they're broken past repair. God knows I didn't find my current healthy relationship by staying endlessly in an unhealthy one.
posted by scody at 5:35 PM on March 8, 2006
Yep, I definitely think that's the case a fair amount of the time. Still, there have certainly been many questions in which ending the relationship isn't posed or offered as a solution at all -- questions that ask specifically about improving communication or helping to understand/support a partner, for example, are almost invariably met with plenty of advice for techniques to try, books to read, or types of counseling to pursue.
I'm also in a very happy relationship; the only "issue" I'm bringing to the table in answering these questions is the wish for others to find such happiness in their relationships -- which means recognizing when things can be fixed, and when they're broken past repair. God knows I didn't find my current healthy relationship by staying endlessly in an unhealthy one.
posted by scody at 5:35 PM on March 8, 2006
I don't have a problem with specific posts that suggest someone should end a relationship, because sometimes that's the right thing to do (or at least something worth considering).
But I do have a problem with the general, casual, toss-em-away-when-they're-broken attitude that some people take. But this is far from a MeFi-only phenomenon. I hear it all the time. It's the "the are many fish in the sea" advice, and I hear it on talk shows, from friends, in books, etc.
I may be misinterpreting, but this world view suggests that (a) each of us has many possible partners out there, so (b) in such a "marketplace," you'd be wise to dump last year's model for this year's shinier, newer replacement.
That was very cynical, I know, so -- to put it in a kinder way -- I think many people judge all relationships by the rules of casual dating. I've never casually dated, but from the outside it looks like the whole point is to dip into relationships, have some fun, and then move on as-soon-as things stop being fun.
I'm not judging people who do this. I know it SOUNDS like I am, but I'm really not. They're not wrong or shallow or anything like that -- they're just from a totally different planet than me.
For me, relationships have always been deadly serious. So when I think about the toss-em mentality, AND APPLY IT TO MY LIFE, I get really sad. I feel like a fine-art lover watching someone throw a Picasso in a dumpster. But when I apply the same rules to someone who views relationships more causally, they're not sad -- they make sense. I suspect that some of the issues here stem from a collision of these two worlds.
What would it take for me to leave my wife? Would I leave her if she had sex with someone else? No. Would I leave her if she had a longterm affair with someone else? Maybe, but probably not. Would I leave her if she beat me? Once? No. Chronically? Yes. I would, after a while -- after trying everything else I could think of first.
I can only imagine how this sounds to a "casual" person. I probably come across as "co-dependent" or lacking in self-esteem. And I'm not going to deny either of those charges, because one could define someone who would stay with a cheating spouse as someone lacking in self-esteem.
From my point of view, I spent almost 30 years alone before I found my wife. Partly this was because I was a geek who had a hard time getting a girlfriend, but also it's because I'm picky about who I spend my time with. My wife is the only woman I've ever loved. I've invested 10 years in my relationship with her. We have tons of history. She's in my thoughts nearly every minute of the day. So with all this in mind, there's no WAY I could understand a "toss her" comment.
Also (and this part seems so old-fashioned, I'm almost ashamed to say it), when we got married, I took a vow. I'm an atheist, but I still believe in honoring my commitments. I don't think this means I have to put up with anything, but I DO think it means I have a duty to work hard to fix problems before throwing in the towel.
My purpose here isn't to talk about myself, it's to explain a particular type of personality and mindset. I'd love to hear from "the other side" or people somewhere in the middle.
Much of this stuff must be baked into one's genes. Even as a kid -- even in nursery school -- I was the guy who had just two friends, but I was fiercely loyal to those two friends. They were my life. And when I lost one of them, I cried and cried and nearly pined away (but when I was in good standing with them, I felt unimaginable joy). About two years ago, I lost the only friend I've ever lost as an adult. I still have nightmares about it.
I do have fun in relationships, but relationships, for me, are not about fun. They are about deep committments and attachments to other people. A fight -- even a small fight -- is very upsetting to me.
On the other hand, I have friends who LIKE to fight with their significant others. One told me that she loved fighting with her boyfriend. To me, she might-as-well have said, "I love banging bricks against my head." I don't get it. But I believe her, and I believe she has a healthy relationship. I believe she loves her boyfriend deeply. I also believe that if her relationship ends, she'll be upset -- deeply upset -- for a while, then she'll get over it and move on. For her, there really ARE many fish in the sea!
posted by grumblebee at 5:39 PM on March 8, 2006 [3 favorites]
But I do have a problem with the general, casual, toss-em-away-when-they're-broken attitude that some people take. But this is far from a MeFi-only phenomenon. I hear it all the time. It's the "the are many fish in the sea" advice, and I hear it on talk shows, from friends, in books, etc.
I may be misinterpreting, but this world view suggests that (a) each of us has many possible partners out there, so (b) in such a "marketplace," you'd be wise to dump last year's model for this year's shinier, newer replacement.
That was very cynical, I know, so -- to put it in a kinder way -- I think many people judge all relationships by the rules of casual dating. I've never casually dated, but from the outside it looks like the whole point is to dip into relationships, have some fun, and then move on as-soon-as things stop being fun.
I'm not judging people who do this. I know it SOUNDS like I am, but I'm really not. They're not wrong or shallow or anything like that -- they're just from a totally different planet than me.
For me, relationships have always been deadly serious. So when I think about the toss-em mentality, AND APPLY IT TO MY LIFE, I get really sad. I feel like a fine-art lover watching someone throw a Picasso in a dumpster. But when I apply the same rules to someone who views relationships more causally, they're not sad -- they make sense. I suspect that some of the issues here stem from a collision of these two worlds.
What would it take for me to leave my wife? Would I leave her if she had sex with someone else? No. Would I leave her if she had a longterm affair with someone else? Maybe, but probably not. Would I leave her if she beat me? Once? No. Chronically? Yes. I would, after a while -- after trying everything else I could think of first.
I can only imagine how this sounds to a "casual" person. I probably come across as "co-dependent" or lacking in self-esteem. And I'm not going to deny either of those charges, because one could define someone who would stay with a cheating spouse as someone lacking in self-esteem.
From my point of view, I spent almost 30 years alone before I found my wife. Partly this was because I was a geek who had a hard time getting a girlfriend, but also it's because I'm picky about who I spend my time with. My wife is the only woman I've ever loved. I've invested 10 years in my relationship with her. We have tons of history. She's in my thoughts nearly every minute of the day. So with all this in mind, there's no WAY I could understand a "toss her" comment.
Also (and this part seems so old-fashioned, I'm almost ashamed to say it), when we got married, I took a vow. I'm an atheist, but I still believe in honoring my commitments. I don't think this means I have to put up with anything, but I DO think it means I have a duty to work hard to fix problems before throwing in the towel.
My purpose here isn't to talk about myself, it's to explain a particular type of personality and mindset. I'd love to hear from "the other side" or people somewhere in the middle.
Much of this stuff must be baked into one's genes. Even as a kid -- even in nursery school -- I was the guy who had just two friends, but I was fiercely loyal to those two friends. They were my life. And when I lost one of them, I cried and cried and nearly pined away (but when I was in good standing with them, I felt unimaginable joy). About two years ago, I lost the only friend I've ever lost as an adult. I still have nightmares about it.
I do have fun in relationships, but relationships, for me, are not about fun. They are about deep committments and attachments to other people. A fight -- even a small fight -- is very upsetting to me.
On the other hand, I have friends who LIKE to fight with their significant others. One told me that she loved fighting with her boyfriend. To me, she might-as-well have said, "I love banging bricks against my head." I don't get it. But I believe her, and I believe she has a healthy relationship. I believe she loves her boyfriend deeply. I also believe that if her relationship ends, she'll be upset -- deeply upset -- for a while, then she'll get over it and move on. For her, there really ARE many fish in the sea!
posted by grumblebee at 5:39 PM on March 8, 2006 [3 favorites]
I may be misinterpreting, but this world view suggests that (a) each of us has many possible partners out there, so (b) in such a "marketplace," you'd be wise to dump last year's model for this year's shinier, newer replacement.
(a) yes
(b) whaaaaa?
How about (b) it's better to get out of a bad relationship early rather than try to force a square peg into a round hole and you end up in a loveless marriage with kids that resent both of you.
posted by empath at 7:31 PM on March 8, 2006
(a) yes
(b) whaaaaa?
How about (b) it's better to get out of a bad relationship early rather than try to force a square peg into a round hole and you end up in a loveless marriage with kids that resent both of you.
posted by empath at 7:31 PM on March 8, 2006
My purpose here isn't to talk about myself, it's to explain a particular type of personality and mindset. I'd love to hear from "the other side" or people somewhere in the middle.
I'll respond if only to point out some major categorical errors you are making.
First, keep in mind that when you say "For me, relationships have always been deadly serious." that many people differentiate between friendships, which can run deep and serious, and "relationships" such as with members of the opposite sex. I know one girl who has lots of boyfriend troubles (mostly because she herself seems to zoom in on guys who are trouble) and yet also has friends she has had since childhood that, well, she would fight to the death over. I know this because I am one of those friends.
Also, if, as you admit, you find your situation to be unique - having had essentially one woman whom you love, having not had to face a deep, deep crisis where the woman you love is sleeping with others for example (but instead telling us about how you *hypothetically* would react) or the man you love is abusing you and hates you but wants you around to able to kick - I don't honestly see how you can make any kind of judgement against others of your peers who have undergone intense trials by fire.
This whole I-hear-these-people-on-talk-shows mentality sounds like an awfully isolated way to view humanity. I dont think its wise to use observations acquired from an admittedly unique situation to then conclude that your values too are deeply unique or superior to everybody else's, or that what you have found or that what you desire for is any different than what others are seeking.
In short, when you ask:
I may be misinterpreting, but this world view suggests that (a) each of us has many possible partners out there, so (b) in such a "marketplace," you'd be wise to dump last year's model for this year's shinier, newer replacement.
I'd answer: Yes, you are misinterpreting. I'm sure there are people like this. From my experience they are a small and shallow minority and, from what I have seen, not strongly represented at metafilter at all.
posted by vacapinta at 7:59 PM on March 8, 2006
I'll respond if only to point out some major categorical errors you are making.
First, keep in mind that when you say "For me, relationships have always been deadly serious." that many people differentiate between friendships, which can run deep and serious, and "relationships" such as with members of the opposite sex. I know one girl who has lots of boyfriend troubles (mostly because she herself seems to zoom in on guys who are trouble) and yet also has friends she has had since childhood that, well, she would fight to the death over. I know this because I am one of those friends.
Also, if, as you admit, you find your situation to be unique - having had essentially one woman whom you love, having not had to face a deep, deep crisis where the woman you love is sleeping with others for example (but instead telling us about how you *hypothetically* would react) or the man you love is abusing you and hates you but wants you around to able to kick - I don't honestly see how you can make any kind of judgement against others of your peers who have undergone intense trials by fire.
This whole I-hear-these-people-on-talk-shows mentality sounds like an awfully isolated way to view humanity. I dont think its wise to use observations acquired from an admittedly unique situation to then conclude that your values too are deeply unique or superior to everybody else's, or that what you have found or that what you desire for is any different than what others are seeking.
In short, when you ask:
I may be misinterpreting, but this world view suggests that (a) each of us has many possible partners out there, so (b) in such a "marketplace," you'd be wise to dump last year's model for this year's shinier, newer replacement.
I'd answer: Yes, you are misinterpreting. I'm sure there are people like this. From my experience they are a small and shallow minority and, from what I have seen, not strongly represented at metafilter at all.
posted by vacapinta at 7:59 PM on March 8, 2006
vacapinta, my original post was poorly composed. So it mislead you about a few points. Sorry about that.
I didn't mean to imply that I was unique. I don't think I am. I may be in a minority, but I've met others who feel as I do.
I gave you the idea that I was speaking hypothetically about relationship hardships. I wasn't. It would be hard to stay married to someone for 10 years without problems, catastrophes, and differences. If anyone here has totally sidestepped ickiness, my hat is off to them. I haven't. I'm certainly not going to go into details here, but I -- we (I should include my wife) -- have had to work through an enormous amount of stuff. And I assume we will have to do so again in the future. I EXPECT that to be part of a long term relationship.
Yes, I have only been in love once, but I have had other serious relationships. So I'm not basing all my thoughts on time spent with one woman.
Boy, I really screwed up with the "talk show" reference. In my defense, I DID write "I hear it on talk shows, from friends, in books, etc," but I should have been clearer about that. Naturally, I have been more strongly affected by advice from friends than random stuff I've heard on TV. I was just trying to point out that a "casual" attitude towards romantic relationships is a reality for some people. I disagree with you that such people are necessarily shallow.
Maybe the acid test is this: when in a longterm relationship, do you consider leaving an option when times are bad? If you answer yes, you're not a bad person (in fact, you may be a healthy, stable person), but you're different from me -- and from people like me (I'm not the only one out there). Leaving is not in my bag of problem-solving techniques.
I'm NOT saying I'd put up with anything. I'm saying that my goal is ALWAYS to make the relationship work. If I tried everything I could to make it work and all of that failed, I would THEN add leaving to the agenda -- but only then. I'm not speaking hypothetically. Though leaving has never been on the agenda in my current relationship, it has been in past relationships -- but only as a final resort. On the other hand, I've had friends who flirt with getting-out whenever things turn sour. (Again, I am not saying I'm better than them.)
Another acid test: when you're in a relationship, do you ever meet other people and think, "In another life, I could see myself falling in love with him/her?" If you think this, then naturally you'll feel on some level that if your current relationship ends, there ARE other fish in the sea.
I've never felt that. I've met TONS of people that I like. I've met TONS of people that I'd love to fuck. But love? Not one -- except for the person I'm with. So naturally my view is that there AREN'T a lot of fish in my sea. Maybe my view is insane. Maybe the opposite view is insane. It doesn't matter. Reality is unimportant in this instance. It's about perception.
I know one girl who continually falls in love. And then out of love. It's NOT shallow love. When she falls, she falls DEEPLY and FULLY. And she stays with the guy for a couple of years. Then she falls out of love and moves on, eventually falling in love again. I can't imagine leaving my wife if I fell out of love with her. If I STAYED out of love with her for years I WOULD leave. But I would first try to wait it out and work it out.
One difference between my friend and me (I'm not making assumptions: we've talked this over) is that even when she's in love, she feels that if the current relationship ever ends, she WILL find someone else to fall in love with.
I totally agree with you that some people -- maybe many people -- separate romantic partners from lifelong friends. I don't. That's the difference. I wouldn't want to have a romance with someone who WASN'T as dear to me as a lifelong friend. Again, I've met enough other people like this to know I'm not some kind of mutant.
Let me be REALLY CLEAR and state that (a) I'm not advocating anything. I DON'T think people should necessarily stay in troubled relationships (or leave them). Each person must make his/her own decision about this based on personal values and desires. (b) I'm not claiming superiority -- I can see many problems (and some good points) to my lifestyle and mindset.
(c) I'm just trying to point out that if someone likes me asks for help in a relationship, "move on" won't go over well. Maybe sometimes I need to be told to move on anyway, for my own good. But realistically, it will be hard for me to hear such a message.
On the other hand, I am likely to give "stay and try to work it out" advice, because that's the lens through which I filter reality. This may be bad advice (or good advice that can't be accepted) for certain people who are different from me.
These polar views exist and they sometimes clash (sometimes without us realizing they are clashing) on AskMe and other places.
posted by grumblebee at 8:57 PM on March 8, 2006
I didn't mean to imply that I was unique. I don't think I am. I may be in a minority, but I've met others who feel as I do.
I gave you the idea that I was speaking hypothetically about relationship hardships. I wasn't. It would be hard to stay married to someone for 10 years without problems, catastrophes, and differences. If anyone here has totally sidestepped ickiness, my hat is off to them. I haven't. I'm certainly not going to go into details here, but I -- we (I should include my wife) -- have had to work through an enormous amount of stuff. And I assume we will have to do so again in the future. I EXPECT that to be part of a long term relationship.
Yes, I have only been in love once, but I have had other serious relationships. So I'm not basing all my thoughts on time spent with one woman.
Boy, I really screwed up with the "talk show" reference. In my defense, I DID write "I hear it on talk shows, from friends, in books, etc," but I should have been clearer about that. Naturally, I have been more strongly affected by advice from friends than random stuff I've heard on TV. I was just trying to point out that a "casual" attitude towards romantic relationships is a reality for some people. I disagree with you that such people are necessarily shallow.
Maybe the acid test is this: when in a longterm relationship, do you consider leaving an option when times are bad? If you answer yes, you're not a bad person (in fact, you may be a healthy, stable person), but you're different from me -- and from people like me (I'm not the only one out there). Leaving is not in my bag of problem-solving techniques.
I'm NOT saying I'd put up with anything. I'm saying that my goal is ALWAYS to make the relationship work. If I tried everything I could to make it work and all of that failed, I would THEN add leaving to the agenda -- but only then. I'm not speaking hypothetically. Though leaving has never been on the agenda in my current relationship, it has been in past relationships -- but only as a final resort. On the other hand, I've had friends who flirt with getting-out whenever things turn sour. (Again, I am not saying I'm better than them.)
Another acid test: when you're in a relationship, do you ever meet other people and think, "In another life, I could see myself falling in love with him/her?" If you think this, then naturally you'll feel on some level that if your current relationship ends, there ARE other fish in the sea.
I've never felt that. I've met TONS of people that I like. I've met TONS of people that I'd love to fuck. But love? Not one -- except for the person I'm with. So naturally my view is that there AREN'T a lot of fish in my sea. Maybe my view is insane. Maybe the opposite view is insane. It doesn't matter. Reality is unimportant in this instance. It's about perception.
I know one girl who continually falls in love. And then out of love. It's NOT shallow love. When she falls, she falls DEEPLY and FULLY. And she stays with the guy for a couple of years. Then she falls out of love and moves on, eventually falling in love again. I can't imagine leaving my wife if I fell out of love with her. If I STAYED out of love with her for years I WOULD leave. But I would first try to wait it out and work it out.
One difference between my friend and me (I'm not making assumptions: we've talked this over) is that even when she's in love, she feels that if the current relationship ever ends, she WILL find someone else to fall in love with.
I totally agree with you that some people -- maybe many people -- separate romantic partners from lifelong friends. I don't. That's the difference. I wouldn't want to have a romance with someone who WASN'T as dear to me as a lifelong friend. Again, I've met enough other people like this to know I'm not some kind of mutant.
Let me be REALLY CLEAR and state that (a) I'm not advocating anything. I DON'T think people should necessarily stay in troubled relationships (or leave them). Each person must make his/her own decision about this based on personal values and desires. (b) I'm not claiming superiority -- I can see many problems (and some good points) to my lifestyle and mindset.
(c) I'm just trying to point out that if someone likes me asks for help in a relationship, "move on" won't go over well. Maybe sometimes I need to be told to move on anyway, for my own good. But realistically, it will be hard for me to hear such a message.
On the other hand, I am likely to give "stay and try to work it out" advice, because that's the lens through which I filter reality. This may be bad advice (or good advice that can't be accepted) for certain people who are different from me.
These polar views exist and they sometimes clash (sometimes without us realizing they are clashing) on AskMe and other places.
posted by grumblebee at 8:57 PM on March 8, 2006
Because when EB posts to stay in the relationship, we start thinking what it would be like to date EB and are thusly more willing to just end it there before we have to get a gun.
posted by klangklangston at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2006
How do we know that's even true? It could be confirmation bias.
Someone want to do a quick survey?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 10:24 PM on March 8, 2006
Someone want to do a quick survey?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 10:24 PM on March 8, 2006
I wish we'd have more suicide AskMe's and reciprocally, more 'Just do it' answers.
Imagine a world where you could honestly mark those best answer after determining if it was in fact, the best answer. WEE. I DRANK A SHITLOAD OF COFFEE
posted by cellphone at 10:44 PM on March 8, 2006
Imagine a world where you could honestly mark those best answer after determining if it was in fact, the best answer. WEE. I DRANK A SHITLOAD OF COFFEE
posted by cellphone at 10:44 PM on March 8, 2006
I'd say it's because most of the relationships that can benefit from "sticking it out" so-to-speak don't end up on askme. If a relationship just needs work, you don't need to ask what to do. You can probably see it, or see a way to figure it out for yourself, and then you either try it or you think it's hopeless and you break it off. askme is usually what happens when something more difficult comes along, and sticking it out doesn't look to be nearly as possible.
just a guess, though.
posted by shmegegge at 11:02 PM on March 8, 2006
just a guess, though.
posted by shmegegge at 11:02 PM on March 8, 2006
Axme on subjective relationship issues reminds me of seanbaby's take on Nintendo Power.
Meh. I really do sympathize, but don't make yourself an easy target. Specificity is good.
posted by bardic at 11:31 PM on March 8, 2006
Meh. I really do sympathize, but don't make yourself an easy target. Specificity is good.
posted by bardic at 11:31 PM on March 8, 2006
I was just about to post almost exactly what shmegegge said.
Especially for grumblebee -- your attitude's great, and you seem to have the skills in place to carry it out. In fact, in 117 AskMe questions, you haven't asked a single relationship question, which would lead me to believe that you and your wife have great communication and problem-solving skills (or else you have other major outside support sources, but given what you've said about your small circle of friends, I'm not even betting on that). In other words -- you're doing great. Other people? May not be in such a lucky situation.
It took you a long time to find that great situation. Other people are, to the best of their ability and in their own way, looking for a similar connection to a partner. In that quest, they're likely to find people they can't talk to, can't understand, don't understand them, and in the end don't really mesh with. *That* is when most of them turn to resources like AskMe, and that's why so many of the answers are "It's not working."
Not because they're not trying hard enough *in* great relationships, but because they haven't tried hard enough (long enough, with enough emotional maturity and thought, etc.) to *find* that great relationship.
In other words, if they had what you had, they wouldn't be turning to us for help!
posted by occhiblu at 11:33 PM on March 8, 2006
Especially for grumblebee -- your attitude's great, and you seem to have the skills in place to carry it out. In fact, in 117 AskMe questions, you haven't asked a single relationship question, which would lead me to believe that you and your wife have great communication and problem-solving skills (or else you have other major outside support sources, but given what you've said about your small circle of friends, I'm not even betting on that). In other words -- you're doing great. Other people? May not be in such a lucky situation.
It took you a long time to find that great situation. Other people are, to the best of their ability and in their own way, looking for a similar connection to a partner. In that quest, they're likely to find people they can't talk to, can't understand, don't understand them, and in the end don't really mesh with. *That* is when most of them turn to resources like AskMe, and that's why so many of the answers are "It's not working."
Not because they're not trying hard enough *in* great relationships, but because they haven't tried hard enough (long enough, with enough emotional maturity and thought, etc.) to *find* that great relationship.
In other words, if they had what you had, they wouldn't be turning to us for help!
posted by occhiblu at 11:33 PM on March 8, 2006
(And if someone posted exactly what you posted but with a problem attached, I doubt most of us would be saying "Dump her!")
posted by occhiblu at 11:34 PM on March 8, 2006
posted by occhiblu at 11:34 PM on March 8, 2006
I think that the premise of the question here might be a tidge skewed. There's always lots of answers like 'couples therapy', 'communication,' 'medication', 'exercise', etc. but they tend to be less dramatically noticeable, perhaps, than the DTMFA answers.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:10 AM on March 9, 2006
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:10 AM on March 9, 2006
Why are people so "end the relationship"-happy on Ask Metafilter?
Because it's easier to just pass judgment on someone's relationship than type out long explanations on how to accomplish the hard work relationships require, and tailor/frame it for the particular context raised.
People love passing judgment on the Asker, especially anonymous. It makes them feel big. And, in the case on anonymous, where the Asker can't chime in to contradict assumptions or false conclusions, it makes them feel smart.
posted by scarabic at 1:16 AM on March 9, 2006
Because it's easier to just pass judgment on someone's relationship than type out long explanations on how to accomplish the hard work relationships require, and tailor/frame it for the particular context raised.
People love passing judgment on the Asker, especially anonymous. It makes them feel big. And, in the case on anonymous, where the Asker can't chime in to contradict assumptions or false conclusions, it makes them feel smart.
posted by scarabic at 1:16 AM on March 9, 2006
Everyone here who says "it's because they don't want to consider the complexity of fixing a relationship" is trapped in the "all relationships are, by necessity, difficult" mindset. This is a wrongheaded belief.
There are good relationships (combinations of situations and people) that don't "require hard work." If you're in one that does, you should probably DTMFA and try another one.
There are so many responses equivalent to "DTMFA" because the people responding are sufficiently removed from the situation to make a logical evaluation. The individual in the relationship is trapped by emotions and won't be able to understand what a good idea it is to break up until months after he's finally brought himself to do it.
posted by rxrfrx at 6:08 AM on March 9, 2006
There are good relationships (combinations of situations and people) that don't "require hard work." If you're in one that does, you should probably DTMFA and try another one.
There are so many responses equivalent to "DTMFA" because the people responding are sufficiently removed from the situation to make a logical evaluation. The individual in the relationship is trapped by emotions and won't be able to understand what a good idea it is to break up until months after he's finally brought himself to do it.
posted by rxrfrx at 6:08 AM on March 9, 2006
I think I derailed by getting too specific about my own relationship. I didn't mean to do that. Here's my point: when someone asks a Windows question, we don't (or we've been told not to) reply, "Get a Mac!" Some people are determined to use PCs. The won't even listen to Mac suggestions.
Similarly, some of us are "stayers." Last night, I was thinking back through my past relationships. I had about five longterms before my marriage. Obviously, they all ended. I was never the person who ended any of them. I'm not blaming the women who dumped me. In some cases, they had the courage to end a relationship that needed to be ended. I'm simply saying that my way of dealing with relationships is to ASSUME they're for forever and then make them work.
Years ago, I was dating this one girl. We'd been dating for a year, and it was pretty serious. At some point, I mentioned the possibility of us taking a trip to Europe. I said I couldn't swing it this year, but maybe we could plan it for the following year. She said, "Well, we don't even know if we'll still be together then." She said this is a totally neutral way. No malice or anything. And she continued to be sweet and affectionate with me. But I was utterly floored!
Growing up, my only model for relationships was my parents (I had no extended family). When I was 12, they split up. While apart, they continued to talk and fight. Then, when I was 14, they got back together. So I see relationships as problematic things that you nevertheless work through.
By the way, I've received about 10 emails from strangers who have been following this thread and who share my feelings. They've all claimed to be uncomfortable posting. I can sort of understand this. My p.o.v. seems polyannaish at best and co-dependent at worst.
Let me be really clear that I'm in FAVOR of the "dump him" responses. People like me need to hear that painful solution sometimes. Other people need to hear "stick it out and make it work." (Some PC people really DO need to hear, "Get a Mac!")
I agree with empath. Some people hurt themselves by staying in bad relationships. Worse: they hurt their partners. Even worse: they hurt their kids. If those people are "stayers" like me, they will probably need an intervention to pry them out. There are other people who could have saved potentially good relationships -- but they are "leavers" so they didn't. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle, so hopefully hearing the multiple voices/opinions here will be helpful.
posted by grumblebee at 6:38 AM on March 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
Similarly, some of us are "stayers." Last night, I was thinking back through my past relationships. I had about five longterms before my marriage. Obviously, they all ended. I was never the person who ended any of them. I'm not blaming the women who dumped me. In some cases, they had the courage to end a relationship that needed to be ended. I'm simply saying that my way of dealing with relationships is to ASSUME they're for forever and then make them work.
Years ago, I was dating this one girl. We'd been dating for a year, and it was pretty serious. At some point, I mentioned the possibility of us taking a trip to Europe. I said I couldn't swing it this year, but maybe we could plan it for the following year. She said, "Well, we don't even know if we'll still be together then." She said this is a totally neutral way. No malice or anything. And she continued to be sweet and affectionate with me. But I was utterly floored!
Growing up, my only model for relationships was my parents (I had no extended family). When I was 12, they split up. While apart, they continued to talk and fight. Then, when I was 14, they got back together. So I see relationships as problematic things that you nevertheless work through.
By the way, I've received about 10 emails from strangers who have been following this thread and who share my feelings. They've all claimed to be uncomfortable posting. I can sort of understand this. My p.o.v. seems polyannaish at best and co-dependent at worst.
Let me be really clear that I'm in FAVOR of the "dump him" responses. People like me need to hear that painful solution sometimes. Other people need to hear "stick it out and make it work." (Some PC people really DO need to hear, "Get a Mac!")
I agree with empath. Some people hurt themselves by staying in bad relationships. Worse: they hurt their partners. Even worse: they hurt their kids. If those people are "stayers" like me, they will probably need an intervention to pry them out. There are other people who could have saved potentially good relationships -- but they are "leavers" so they didn't. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle, so hopefully hearing the multiple voices/opinions here will be helpful.
posted by grumblebee at 6:38 AM on March 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
Part of it is that it's a lot easier to type the one line "Run away. Run far away" than it is to write out the well-explained nuanced opinion that finding a different solution usually requires. It only takes a minute to say "give up" to say anything else requires a lot more of the answer-giver and therefore fewer people of that view take the time to answer.
posted by raedyn at 6:44 AM on March 9, 2006
posted by raedyn at 6:44 AM on March 9, 2006
I happen to think that AskMe, in general, offers some pretty good relationship advice. (Naturally, there are certain people who consistently offer shite advice, too...assholes, opinions, etc.)
Here's my take. The reason why it seems like we advocate "Run for your life!" all the time is two-fold.
First, many people who come here looking for relationship advice seem to be in their early-to-late 20s. Having stayed too long in some crappy LTRs in my early-to-late 20s, I really wish someone had just said to me, "Fuck it, there are SO many other people out there, you're too young to be spending your time in an unhappy relationship."
Second, I blame Dan Savage. He creates composite letters from which one can draw obvious conclusions so that he can write snappy, pat responses. Now everyone wants to be Dan Savage.
posted by veronica sawyer at 7:27 AM on March 9, 2006
Here's my take. The reason why it seems like we advocate "Run for your life!" all the time is two-fold.
First, many people who come here looking for relationship advice seem to be in their early-to-late 20s. Having stayed too long in some crappy LTRs in my early-to-late 20s, I really wish someone had just said to me, "Fuck it, there are SO many other people out there, you're too young to be spending your time in an unhappy relationship."
Second, I blame Dan Savage. He creates composite letters from which one can draw obvious conclusions so that he can write snappy, pat responses. Now everyone wants to be Dan Savage.
posted by veronica sawyer at 7:27 AM on March 9, 2006
I happen to think that AskMe, in general, offers some pretty good relationship advice.
I do too, and I've used it for such. Part of the problem WCityMike is percieving may result from the assumption that people actually follow the advice on AskMe. Certainly the DTMFA advice would be really dangerous if anyone actually DTMFA'd based solely on an immature, off-the-cuff AskMe answer. But I doubt that happens.
I've got a different take on it. When I ask a question -- no matter what it's about -- I expect a range of answers. I'm asking not so much to get a prescribed solution, or to take one person's advice and run with it, as to get a variety of perspectives. It's almost like conducting a survey. If I'm asking about a problem, I certainly know what my reaction is, but there may be dozens of other ways to react that fall within the range of normal. I ask in order to have my thinking provoked, to be challenged, and to simply identify some alternative ways of looking at a situation. One of the biggest problems people run into in relationships is getting stuck in the idea that the relationship problem is somehow special or unique, when in fact, problems come in a pretty small assortment of flavors and many people have experience with them.
When you put a RelationshipFilter out there, you know you're going to get some "Cut and run!" responses, as well as some extremely well-thought-out responses. You take what you need and leave the rest. You are going to have to live through your problem anyway; it's just that the collected wisdom helps. Sometimes the objectivity of a cut-and-run answer, pointing out a huge and obvious red flag that you had optimistically overlooked, is helpful.
I also tend never to use Ask as my only problem-solving source, either. You can be sure if I ask something here, it's either because Ask is likely to be the most efficient resource, or because it's one among many other fronts that I'm exploring -- including other web sites, books, in-the-flesh friends, professionals. I'm a fact-finder, so I like to get as much input as possible from a broad variety of sources.
All that said, it should be clear that the DTMFA answers aren't that helpful. Which is, of course, the goal of Ask. Maybe you strongly feel the best solution really is to dump; but jeez, please elaborate, don't just write the one-liner. Tell the AskEr: Why? What's your experience that led you to recommend this? What's the evidence that your recommendation will work out well? What's your reasoning?
I read most of these kinds of threads, in my own quest to understand the mysterious world of human relations. There is a lot of bad advice out there, and I always hope it's clear to the Asker which responses are useless. But I have really enjoyed such well-elaborated contributions as those from scody, scarabic, occhiblue, grumblebee, omiewise, and ikkyu2 (just taking the opportunity to shout out some of the thoughtful and caring frequent responders).As with all AskMes, if the 'helpfulness' is kept most in mind, that should reduce the knee-jerk quality of many such responses.
posted by Miko at 8:33 AM on March 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
I do too, and I've used it for such. Part of the problem WCityMike is percieving may result from the assumption that people actually follow the advice on AskMe. Certainly the DTMFA advice would be really dangerous if anyone actually DTMFA'd based solely on an immature, off-the-cuff AskMe answer. But I doubt that happens.
I've got a different take on it. When I ask a question -- no matter what it's about -- I expect a range of answers. I'm asking not so much to get a prescribed solution, or to take one person's advice and run with it, as to get a variety of perspectives. It's almost like conducting a survey. If I'm asking about a problem, I certainly know what my reaction is, but there may be dozens of other ways to react that fall within the range of normal. I ask in order to have my thinking provoked, to be challenged, and to simply identify some alternative ways of looking at a situation. One of the biggest problems people run into in relationships is getting stuck in the idea that the relationship problem is somehow special or unique, when in fact, problems come in a pretty small assortment of flavors and many people have experience with them.
When you put a RelationshipFilter out there, you know you're going to get some "Cut and run!" responses, as well as some extremely well-thought-out responses. You take what you need and leave the rest. You are going to have to live through your problem anyway; it's just that the collected wisdom helps. Sometimes the objectivity of a cut-and-run answer, pointing out a huge and obvious red flag that you had optimistically overlooked, is helpful.
I also tend never to use Ask as my only problem-solving source, either. You can be sure if I ask something here, it's either because Ask is likely to be the most efficient resource, or because it's one among many other fronts that I'm exploring -- including other web sites, books, in-the-flesh friends, professionals. I'm a fact-finder, so I like to get as much input as possible from a broad variety of sources.
All that said, it should be clear that the DTMFA answers aren't that helpful. Which is, of course, the goal of Ask. Maybe you strongly feel the best solution really is to dump; but jeez, please elaborate, don't just write the one-liner. Tell the AskEr: Why? What's your experience that led you to recommend this? What's the evidence that your recommendation will work out well? What's your reasoning?
I read most of these kinds of threads, in my own quest to understand the mysterious world of human relations. There is a lot of bad advice out there, and I always hope it's clear to the Asker which responses are useless. But I have really enjoyed such well-elaborated contributions as those from scody, scarabic, occhiblue, grumblebee, omiewise, and ikkyu2 (just taking the opportunity to shout out some of the thoughtful and caring frequent responders).As with all AskMes, if the 'helpfulness' is kept most in mind, that should reduce the knee-jerk quality of many such responses.
posted by Miko at 8:33 AM on March 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
People in happy relationships don't spend all day reading AskMeFi answering relationship questions.
posted by Eideteker at 9:08 AM on March 9, 2006
posted by Eideteker at 9:08 AM on March 9, 2006
Mod note: a few comments removed, keep the little green football trolling links off of metafilter
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:23 AM on March 9, 2006
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:23 AM on March 9, 2006
Heh. I love Eideteker's comment coming directly after Miko's shout-out. Did we just get accused of being the unhappy relationship club or something?
For the record, I've been answering relationship AskMes while in a bad relationship, while single, and while in a great relationship. My current romantic status has nothing to do with how eager I am to give advice!
posted by occhiblu at 9:32 AM on March 9, 2006
For the record, I've been answering relationship AskMes while in a bad relationship, while single, and while in a great relationship. My current romantic status has nothing to do with how eager I am to give advice!
posted by occhiblu at 9:32 AM on March 9, 2006
A lot of people have responded to the question by agreeing, "When you post a relationship question to AskMe, you've already got one foot out the door." I'd submit that those people haven't answered the question; they've essentially repeated it. The attitude behind that presumption is exactly what's at issue.
I agree with some of what grumblebee says, but also I'm disappointed (albeit not surprised) by how many folks replied to say, "Life is too short to stay in an unhappy relationship." Obviously there are people who date to enjoy themselves, but there are also many people who date to find a spouse. That has very little to do with "fun" and requires enduring difficult and painful experiences in order to learn and grow — and I'd submit that if someone has taken the time to post his story for a bunch of strangers' advice, it's unreasonable to assume that person is the type who "dates for fun."
posted by cribcage at 9:47 AM on March 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
I agree with some of what grumblebee says, but also I'm disappointed (albeit not surprised) by how many folks replied to say, "Life is too short to stay in an unhappy relationship." Obviously there are people who date to enjoy themselves, but there are also many people who date to find a spouse. That has very little to do with "fun" and requires enduring difficult and painful experiences in order to learn and grow — and I'd submit that if someone has taken the time to post his story for a bunch of strangers' advice, it's unreasonable to assume that person is the type who "dates for fun."
posted by cribcage at 9:47 AM on March 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
I would hope that finding a spouse has *something* to do with fun. And I would also say that sometimes those difficult and painful experiences are there to teach you that *you* are important and there are things in life on which you should not compromise.
I'm also, however, coming at this from a female perspective, and I think in many instances that's the challenge for women -- to learn that standing up for yourself is OK, that you don't always have to subsume your happiness into someone else's. I suspect that many men need to learn the opposite lesson, given the way we tend to raise boys and girls.
I'm generally over-eager to attribute things to gender differences, but I wonder if at least some of that is going on here?
posted by occhiblu at 10:05 AM on March 9, 2006
I'm also, however, coming at this from a female perspective, and I think in many instances that's the challenge for women -- to learn that standing up for yourself is OK, that you don't always have to subsume your happiness into someone else's. I suspect that many men need to learn the opposite lesson, given the way we tend to raise boys and girls.
I'm generally over-eager to attribute things to gender differences, but I wonder if at least some of that is going on here?
posted by occhiblu at 10:05 AM on March 9, 2006
[a few comments removed, keep the little green football trolling links off of metafilter]
posted by jessamyn at 9:23 AM
Could you please give us a list of approved websites for us to talk disparagingly of?
posted by Balisong at 10:10 AM on March 9, 2006
Funny, I was thinking specifically of you and ikkyu2 as the counter-example to my trite response. I toyed with adding a "generally" but I have a distaste for adverbs. I also have a dislike for emoticons, or I would've added a ";)"
And for the record, I ♥ Miko, even though I'm sick of 'heart' as a verb.
posted by Eideteker at 10:11 AM on March 9, 2006
And for the record, I ♥ Miko, even though I'm sick of 'heart' as a verb.
posted by Eideteker at 10:11 AM on March 9, 2006
People in happy relationships don't spend all day reading AskMeFi answering relationship questions.
Heh. Yes, bullshit triteness, but it's a nice zing.
posted by cortex at 11:12 AM on March 9, 2006
Heh. Yes, bullshit triteness, but it's a nice zing.
posted by cortex at 11:12 AM on March 9, 2006
People in happy relationships don't spend all day reading AskMeFi answering relationship questions.
I dunno...what else is there to do in Happily Ever After? At least, during working hours.
posted by Miko at 11:15 AM on March 9, 2006
I dunno...what else is there to do in Happily Ever After? At least, during working hours.
posted by Miko at 11:15 AM on March 9, 2006
"Life is too short to stay in an unhappy relationship." Obviously there are people who date to enjoy themselves, but there are also many people who date to find a spouse.
...and if you're dating to find a spouse with whom you can share a happy and healthy marriage, you don't (or shouldn't) stay in unhappy or unhealthy relationships that are unlikely to lead to that goal.
posted by scody at 11:22 AM on March 9, 2006
...and if you're dating to find a spouse with whom you can share a happy and healthy marriage, you don't (or shouldn't) stay in unhappy or unhealthy relationships that are unlikely to lead to that goal.
posted by scody at 11:22 AM on March 9, 2006
Yeah, but what if you're dating to find a spouse who will pay the bills, clean the house, and not leave you? Fun could be secondary (or tertiary, or...) for the true pragmatist.
posted by cortex at 11:29 AM on March 9, 2006
posted by cortex at 11:29 AM on March 9, 2006
Just for the record, I recently heard a shrink say that current evidence-based research is showing that fewer than 10% of marriages can be classified as happy and healthy, using standardized measures, over the long term.
10%.
So a lot of people clearly don't cut and run, despite the imperfections.
posted by Miko at 11:45 AM on March 9, 2006
10%.
So a lot of people clearly don't cut and run, despite the imperfections.
posted by Miko at 11:45 AM on March 9, 2006
People in happy relationships don't spend all day reading AskMeFi answering relationship questions.
Some of us have boring jobs, ya know.
posted by rxrfrx at 12:02 PM on March 9, 2006
Some of us have boring jobs, ya know.
posted by rxrfrx at 12:02 PM on March 9, 2006
[a few comments removed, keep the little green football trolling links off of metafilter]
posted by jessamyn at 9:23 AM PST on March 9
The wild deletions are out of control.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 12:03 PM on March 9, 2006
posted by jessamyn at 9:23 AM PST on March 9
The wild deletions are out of control.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 12:03 PM on March 9, 2006
Could you please give us a list of approved websites for us to talk disparagingly of?
&
The wild deletions are out of control.
Stop being such twats. There's a long history of cross-site antagonism with LGF that no one wants to revive (except you, TJH). Jessamyn is well within reason and it's a special case, not symptomatic of some general censorship policy.
posted by scarabic at 12:11 PM on March 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
&
The wild deletions are out of control.
Stop being such twats. There's a long history of cross-site antagonism with LGF that no one wants to revive (except you, TJH). Jessamyn is well within reason and it's a special case, not symptomatic of some general censorship policy.
posted by scarabic at 12:11 PM on March 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
I think it's the same reason why reality TV is successful. People like to feel superior. The cheapest and easiest road to that emotion is by telling a bunch of strangers who are trying to be helpful that they like to feel superior.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:43 PM on March 9, 2006
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:43 PM on March 9, 2006
Miko: I'm happy in my marriage, and that's to say I'm not in it. Hi-diddly-dee, a bachelor's life for me.
posted by Eideteker at 1:14 PM on March 9, 2006
posted by Eideteker at 1:14 PM on March 9, 2006
Yeah, actually, being in a great relationship has freed me up to feel like I have something to contribute to these threads. Everybody should be half as happy as I am.
In conclusion, go AskMetafilter!
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:55 PM on March 9, 2006
In conclusion, go AskMetafilter!
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:55 PM on March 9, 2006
I've recommended that more than once, and the reason why is that I've been in a similar situation to that person and A) wish somebody had given that advice to me and B) wish that I'd taken it sooner. ... life is too short to waste your time...
I've also recommended hitting the eject button, and empath's statement here perfectly sums up my thoughts on the matter.
posted by frogan at 12:25 AM on March 11, 2006
I've also recommended hitting the eject button, and empath's statement here perfectly sums up my thoughts on the matter.
posted by frogan at 12:25 AM on March 11, 2006
Harbor master! I will put the longboat here, at least temporarily.
posted by Cranberry at 9:43 AM on March 20, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 9:43 AM on March 20, 2006
There! It is Dali's Putrified Donkey. Just goes to show how lucky we are to have a Nice Donkey!
posted by Cranberry at 2:49 PM on March 20, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 2:49 PM on March 20, 2006
Here!
*does the longboat parking dance*
whatever that is
Oh, I wish we still had the < big> tag! Cause I wanted to say "Here" REALLY LOUDLY. NOW I HAVE TO RESORT TO CAPS-LOCK STYLE SHOUTING. And really, when it's not caps-lock day, where is the joy in that?
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:29 PM on March 20, 2006
*does the longboat parking dance*
whatever that is
Oh, I wish we still had the < big> tag! Cause I wanted to say "Here" REALLY LOUDLY. NOW I HAVE TO RESORT TO CAPS-LOCK STYLE SHOUTING. And really, when it's not caps-lock day, where is the joy in that?
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:29 PM on March 20, 2006
That's a pretty putrified donkey, cran. But at least he's getting a good nibble in.
Oh, hey! Let's put Dali's donkey through the draw a pig personality test! (Link goes to my pig drawing again . . . sorry.) Let's see now, Dali drew the donkey:
Toward the bottom -- he is pessimistic, and has a tendency to behave negatively.
Facing left -- he believes in tradition, is friendly, and remembers dates (birthdays, etc.)
With many details -- he is analytical, cautious, and distrustful.
With less than 4 legs -- he is insecure or is living through a period of major change. {editorial note: alternatively, he could just be dead}
He drew small ears, so he is a crappy listener.
Um, is that a tail, or some kind of intestines flying off the back end of the donkey? The answer will reveal truths about Dali's sex life . . .
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:43 PM on March 20, 2006
Oh, hey! Let's put Dali's donkey through the draw a pig personality test! (Link goes to my pig drawing again . . . sorry.) Let's see now, Dali drew the donkey:
Toward the bottom -- he is pessimistic, and has a tendency to behave negatively.
Facing left -- he believes in tradition, is friendly, and remembers dates (birthdays, etc.)
With many details -- he is analytical, cautious, and distrustful.
With less than 4 legs -- he is insecure or is living through a period of major change. {editorial note: alternatively, he could just be dead}
He drew small ears, so he is a crappy listener.
Um, is that a tail, or some kind of intestines flying off the back end of the donkey? The answer will reveal truths about Dali's sex life . . .
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:43 PM on March 20, 2006
Weird, indeed, about the geckos. For the record, my gecko's name is Cleo.
*does the gecko-keeping dance, then swallows a cricket in one gulp and sits under a rock for 12 hours*
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:51 PM on March 20, 2006
*does the gecko-keeping dance, then swallows a cricket in one gulp and sits under a rock for 12 hours*
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:51 PM on March 20, 2006
Hope you enjoyed the Dali tribute, Nice. I needed to find the melting clocks (Persistence of Memory) for a project I was working on, and found the donkey.
posted by Cranberry at 10:04 AM on March 21, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 10:04 AM on March 21, 2006
(If anyone asks, I was never here.)
posted by If I Had An Anus at 10:52 AM on March 21, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 10:52 AM on March 21, 2006
Pray, my vikings, pray like you've never prayed before that mods save our next stop!
An animal sacrifice may even be in order.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 12:26 PM on March 21, 2006
An animal sacrifice may even be in order.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 12:26 PM on March 21, 2006
Fuck!!!
posted by If I Had An Anus at 12:28 PM on March 21, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 12:28 PM on March 21, 2006
Why don't you just dump the guy?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:01 AM on March 22, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:01 AM on March 22, 2006
Um-m-m-m, I think they're rats.
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:08 PM on March 22, 2006
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:08 PM on March 22, 2006
The simplest tasks used in bioinformatics concern the creation and maintenance of databases of biological information. So, Nice, you recognized the picture from a database?
This changes everything.
posted by Cranberry at 11:12 PM on March 22, 2006
They were obviously exposed to the LD50 of human urine.
Makes me wonder where the other half are.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:48 AM on March 23, 2006
Makes me wonder where the other half are.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:48 AM on March 23, 2006
They are rats.
Look, I don't want to scare anyone, but read this and then: ORGANIZE!
posted by OmieWise at 5:24 AM on March 23, 2006
Look, I don't want to scare anyone, but read this and then: ORGANIZE!
posted by OmieWise at 5:24 AM on March 23, 2006
Waiter, there's soup on my rats.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:05 AM on March 23, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:05 AM on March 23, 2006
Listed below are the episodes that Ram Man was featured in, but did not strike anything.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:43 AM on March 23, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:43 AM on March 23, 2006
Artist: So, what does it look like when he rams somebody.
Producer: Just draw him like he's standing up, but horizontal, and then draw some rays coming from the contact point.
Artist: But that's what I did last time.
Producer: Yeah.
Artist: Don't you think that's boring?
Producer: No.
Artist: Can I do it some other way?
Producer: You aren't one of the people who accord RamMan "a strange kind of respect," are you? Because the guy whose job you have now, he was one of those people.
Artist: Horizontal it is.
posted by OmieWise at 6:54 AM on March 23, 2006
Producer: Just draw him like he's standing up, but horizontal, and then draw some rays coming from the contact point.
Artist: But that's what I did last time.
Producer: Yeah.
Artist: Don't you think that's boring?
Producer: No.
Artist: Can I do it some other way?
Producer: You aren't one of the people who accord RamMan "a strange kind of respect," are you? Because the guy whose job you have now, he was one of those people.
Artist: Horizontal it is.
posted by OmieWise at 6:54 AM on March 23, 2006
By God, you don't log in at MeCha for a while and when you pop by you're suddenly the cable guy.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:19 AM on March 23, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:19 AM on March 23, 2006
Hi, btgog.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2006
So, Nice, you recognized the picture from a database?
Cran, are you asking if I recognized the rat picture from a database? Because the answer is yes.
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2006
Cran, are you asking if I recognized the rat picture from a database? Because the answer is yes.
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2006
Everyone who has long forgotten about the series can still recall the Ram Man action figure, and his role in the He-Man cartoon.
Wha? How can I remember the role of a character in a series that I have long forgotten? Oh, well. Ram-man! I don't remember him, but I love him! He can totally ram things!
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:36 PM on March 23, 2006
Wha? How can I remember the role of a character in a series that I have long forgotten? Oh, well. Ram-man! I don't remember him, but I love him! He can totally ram things!
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:36 PM on March 23, 2006
There is nothing boring about that vibratory plow, dano. Speaking of people with more than one handle, wot's this all about?:
By God, you don't log in at MeCha for a while and when you pop by you're suddenly the cable guy.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:19 AM PST on March 23 [!]
Hi, btgog.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 10:52 AM PST on March 23 [!]
I am so lost. Who? Wha?
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:47 PM on March 23, 2006
By God, you don't log in at MeCha for a while and when you pop by you're suddenly the cable guy.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:19 AM PST on March 23 [!]
Hi, btgog.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 10:52 AM PST on March 23 [!]
I am so lost. Who? Wha?
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:47 PM on March 23, 2006
How can one quit while one's ahead when one is clearly no longer ahead?
The barber shaves every man in town who doesn't shave himself. But does he stop and fumble with change and crinkled bills, holding up the line for those of us with bus passes?
posted by gramschmidt at 1:22 AM on March 24, 2006
I get it, gram. You put on your gas mask and emptied the rat trap in your closet. You substituted rat for the turkey in a big batch of albondigas (see pictures quite far above of the early stages of preparation) and offered some to Sophocles. He preferred hemlock.
So in order to keep the party going, you asked your grandfather to chop some hemp. This was ONLY to be woven into tablecloths and napkins. Really.
You bottled some of the albondigas and gave it to Leopard Woman. She was allergic and broke out in spots.
In two or three weeks when you post again, could you define um, that other word. I forgot how to spell it.
posted by Cranberry at 1:38 AM on March 24, 2006
So in order to keep the party going, you asked your grandfather to chop some hemp. This was ONLY to be woven into tablecloths and napkins. Really.
You bottled some of the albondigas and gave it to Leopard Woman. She was allergic and broke out in spots.
In two or three weeks when you post again, could you define um, that other word. I forgot how to spell it.
posted by Cranberry at 1:38 AM on March 24, 2006
Good heavens. Are you still here gram? Would letting your beard grow solve the problem?
posted by Cranberry at 1:40 AM on March 24, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 1:40 AM on March 24, 2006
Hi Cran. I quite like your breakdown, and I apologize for my inconsistency. As for the facial hair, it's actually quite straggly at the moment, and I intend to chop it tomorrow. Its overgrowth solved nothing but the threat of potential razor rash.
Well, it may have solved a few real analysis problems, but only because I hid some helpful proofs in there.
posted by gramschmidt at 2:15 AM on March 24, 2006
Well, it may have solved a few real analysis problems, but only because I hid some helpful proofs in there.
posted by gramschmidt at 2:15 AM on March 24, 2006
Perth Military Modeling is my new favorite website, but I hope that Leopard Woman will be my new girlfriend.
posted by OmieWise at 6:18 AM on March 24, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 6:18 AM on March 24, 2006
gram, if the posts weren't "inconsistent" I would suspect someone had hi-jacked your user number.
Were you growing the beard to match Adam Morrison's ill-advised mustache?
posted by Cranberry at 11:25 AM on March 24, 2006
Were you growing the beard to match Adam Morrison's ill-advised mustache?
posted by Cranberry at 11:25 AM on March 24, 2006
Omie! Did you give the girl in green some of the rat soup?
The other one, "Tripe", loks like she has a fiberglass wig/is modeling the latest Paris weirdness.
posted by Cranberry at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2006
The other one, "Tripe", loks like she has a fiberglass wig/is modeling the latest Paris weirdness.
posted by Cranberry at 11:33 AM on March 24, 2006
Perth Military Modeling? Omie, I just do not understand.
Do you really want a tank for your back yard?
posted by Cranberry at 11:40 AM on March 24, 2006
Do you really want a tank for your back yard?
posted by Cranberry at 11:40 AM on March 24, 2006
Well, the depth of hobby is what's interesting. That and the detail.
posted by OmieWise at 12:14 PM on March 24, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 12:14 PM on March 24, 2006
OK, I guess if your patio furniture is painted camo. You could poke a few holes and make a strawberry barrel out of it.
posted by Cranberry at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 2:28 PM on March 24, 2006
Hey, they have coffee here in Seattle. Do they have coffee in your portly berg, Cran?
posted by gramschmidt at 7:00 PM on March 25, 2006
posted by gramschmidt at 7:00 PM on March 25, 2006
Don't make the same mistake I made. End it now before it really turns to shit.
posted by flabdablet at 7:33 PM on March 25, 2006
posted by flabdablet at 7:33 PM on March 25, 2006
Why hello, young dumpling.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:37 PM on March 25, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:37 PM on March 25, 2006
As far as I know, Portland has not escaped the Starbucks infestation, gram. One does not ask questions on MetaFilter, but I am curious why you have deserted S.Cruz for S.eattle.
Parents? A very pretty girl? I shall be really disappointed if you are just there for the coffee.
posted by Cranberry at 9:43 PM on March 25, 2006
Parents? A very pretty girl? I shall be really disappointed if you are just there for the coffee.
posted by Cranberry at 9:43 PM on March 25, 2006
Some go south for atrocious sunglasses, misogyny, and the vagaries of the untrained bourgeois id.
I find live music.
Although I would be remiss as a longboat officer and a gentleman were I to not mention the fortunate preponderence of intriguing female citizens encountered within the American Pacific Northwest.
posted by gramschmidt at 1:56 PM on March 26, 2006
I find live music.
Although I would be remiss as a longboat officer and a gentleman were I to not mention the fortunate preponderence of intriguing female citizens encountered within the American Pacific Northwest.
posted by gramschmidt at 1:56 PM on March 26, 2006
*Consults English/gram dictionary*
Guesses gram went to Seattle for a concert.
Guesses gram findsgroupies attractive young women all over the Northwest US.
*Closes dictionary with vague feeling of mistranslation*
posted by Cranberry at 3:18 PM on March 26, 2006
Guesses gram went to Seattle for a concert.
Guesses gram finds
*Closes dictionary with vague feeling of mistranslation*
posted by Cranberry at 3:18 PM on March 26, 2006
Hmm. I went in search of an appropriately abhorrent MTV-style Spring break photo and perhaps a shot of Belle & Sebastian in concert in WA to act as exhibits with which I could clarify for you Cran, but a Google Image Search for "traditional spring break" yielded the following, instead, which describes my situation with a level of precision far greater than I could ever hope to attain:
Svend Rudolf Gunnerson -- Fotografert som professor i teologi i Minneapolis. Senere flere ulike prestestillinger og prost i Kragerø for Bamble prosti.
posted by gramschmidt at 8:03 PM on March 26, 2006
Svend Rudolf Gunnerson -- Fotografert som professor i teologi i Minneapolis. Senere flere ulike prestestillinger og prost i Kragerø for Bamble prosti.
posted by gramschmidt at 8:03 PM on March 26, 2006
Paging Mr. Languagehat. Mr. Languagehat to the white phone in 11442.
The professor's hairdo is so this century! But his collar looks like the lite version of Queen Elizabeth I's.
posted by Cranberry at 10:34 PM on March 26, 2006
The professor's hairdo is so this century! But his collar looks like the lite version of Queen Elizabeth I's.
posted by Cranberry at 10:34 PM on March 26, 2006
Is that tripe around Gunnerson's neck? Because if not, I'm unimpressed.
posted by OmieWise at 7:10 AM on March 27, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 7:10 AM on March 27, 2006
heh, Omie. The fashion that transcends the centuries.
posted by Cranberry at 11:59 AM on March 27, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 11:59 AM on March 27, 2006
Does the collar remind anyone else of the thing veterinarians put on animals so they can't bite themselves, or tear out their stitches?
posted by Cranberry at 12:02 PM on March 27, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 12:02 PM on March 27, 2006
If one studies the photo very closely, one can see that Gunnerson's collar has clearly been fashioned out of pages from the recent Natalie Krinsky novel, so, Omie, I'm going to go ahead and say yes.
posted by gramschmidt at 12:18 PM on March 27, 2006
posted by gramschmidt at 12:18 PM on March 27, 2006
Can we consider your comment a review of Ms. Krinsky's sexcapades?
posted by Cranberry at 1:07 PM on March 27, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 1:07 PM on March 27, 2006
Orthopedic surgery to straighten out that nasty curl?
posted by Cranberry at 12:07 AM on March 28, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 12:07 AM on March 28, 2006
"The pea-sized tumor was removed by using a laser probe." This a phrase I hope is never written or said about me or any of the other vikings. (BTW, I've always been partial to that set-up neptune has where the seahorses pull the underwater chariot. Seems like it would save on rowing.)
posted by OmieWise at 6:41 AM on March 28, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 6:41 AM on March 28, 2006
Chihuahua: This is why the ones that wake me up yapping in my front yard nights and mornings arouse my ire:
Because you can tell by the way they look that they are spawn of Satan.
posted by OmieWise at 12:23 PM on March 28, 2006
Because you can tell by the way they look that they are spawn of Satan.
posted by OmieWise at 12:23 PM on March 28, 2006
I am incredibly saddened by the loss of the blink tag. Big is gone, blink is now gone; will img be next?
posted by Cranberry at 12:25 PM on March 28, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 12:25 PM on March 28, 2006
heh I wrote the blink formula, and RIP blinked in live preview, but not when posted.
posted by Cranberry at 2:10 PM on March 28, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 2:10 PM on March 28, 2006
</blink>dabs tears with sodden Kleenex.
Question to longboat crew: should we ask Mathowie to rescind the banning of our little friend ? Let's think about it.
posted by Cranberry at 4:56 PM on March 28, 2006
Question to longboat crew: should we ask Mathowie to rescind the banning of our little friend ? Let's think about it.
posted by Cranberry at 4:56 PM on March 28, 2006
Clarification, if needed: By "little friend" I meant the blink tag - not the lawyer.
posted by Cranberry at 9:47 PM on March 28, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 9:47 PM on March 28, 2006
Agreed, gnfti. (PS-I can't find that cd!)
Good news for (image)tag internetvikings.
posted by OmieWise at 10:43 AM on March 29, 2006
Good news for (image)tag internetvikings.
posted by OmieWise at 10:43 AM on March 29, 2006
Great minds, Omie. That was my thought too when I saw that. Now if we could just get Mathowie to
posted by Cranberry at 1:06 PM on March 29, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 1:06 PM on March 29, 2006
heh the bracket blink bracket did not print. Yoo-hoo, Mathowie, your sites WANT blink
posted by Cranberry at 1:07 PM on March 29, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 1:07 PM on March 29, 2006
Hmm. I suppose this means that we'll be forced to imply the blink tag by placing the constituent parts in sequence on the screen, like individual frames of a film, to wit:
jokeygag _______ jokeygag _______, etc.
Alas, this severely reduces the impact.
posted by gramschmidt at 6:29 PM on March 29, 2006
jokeygag _______ jokeygag _______, etc.
Alas, this severely reduces the impact.
posted by gramschmidt at 6:29 PM on March 29, 2006
I don't get it.
posted by Nice Donkey at 6:58 PM on March 29, 2006
posted by Nice Donkey at 6:58 PM on March 29, 2006
On a completely unrelated note, I stumbled upon this picture, which was occupying a space beneath the caption "This is some pics of my College Daze so far!"
It's like someone photoshopped the glimmer of intelligence right out of their eyes. It's uncanny.
posted by Nice Donkey at 9:27 PM on March 29, 2006
It's like someone photoshopped the glimmer of intelligence right out of their eyes. It's uncanny.
posted by Nice Donkey at 9:27 PM on March 29, 2006
gnfti-You were speaking of heroes? Well done, sir, well done. Indeed, I think for lyrical depth and topical hardhitingness it surpasses good cortex's effort.
Nice Donkey writes "It's like someone photoshopped the glimmer of intelligence right out of their eyes. It's uncanny."
This is like a description of me and my week!
posted by OmieWise at 5:16 AM on March 30, 2006
Nice Donkey writes "It's like someone photoshopped the glimmer of intelligence right out of their eyes. It's uncanny."
This is like a description of me and my week!
posted by OmieWise at 5:16 AM on March 30, 2006
Well, I'm not really the right person to ask, but the anus is generally found between the buttocks of most mammals, including humans. If you get a hand mirror, hold it behind you and bend over slightly, you should see it easily. It looks like this. If you are overweight, you may need to open the buttocks somewhat.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:53 AM on March 30, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:53 AM on March 30, 2006
Re: blink. I think it's time we get organized to bring back <big>. I've been considering making the the following MeTa:
posted by If I Had An Anus at 10:31 AM on March 30, 2006
Since the <blink> tag has now departed us and <marquee> is long gone, can we please consider reinstating the <big> tag? [MI]... but my behavorial reputation may make me a poor ambassador for this effort.
With <blink> gone, <img> is the only tag to which we can turn when we want to let our hair down. I fear that <img> abuse will only get worse, and as an understandable result, it too will be taken away.
Unlike <blink> and <marquee>, <big> is and always has been a standard element. Abuse of it could easily be avoided by limiting the number of times <big> can be contained within itself.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 10:31 AM on March 30, 2006
gnfti, I also wished to applaud your virtuoso solo in 11595, but MeFi's server went to sleep quite early last night (again)
To address the growing loss of fun toys: frankly, I do not miss the big tag, but blink was fun. Img probably has at least a temporary reprieve since Mathowie employed it recently.
We know in our guilty little hearts that toys were taken away when we did not play nice with them. How can any few of us guarantee that restoration of privilege will not be followed by recurring abuse of that privilege?
We lost decorative user pages and Mathowie lost a great deal of time and peace of mind because of Pretty_Generic. Now blink is gone due to dios' misuse.
In my opinion, banning dios was sufficient; banning poor little blink was overkill.
Shall we petition #1 for restoration? If so how? By a MeTa thread or by emails to him and Jessamyn? A torchlight picket parade forget that, a single picket marching furiously in our widely separated venues is more amusing than effective.
Now to see if strike tag still works
posted by Cranberry at 11:13 AM on March 30, 2006
To address the growing loss of fun toys: frankly, I do not miss the big tag, but blink was fun. Img probably has at least a temporary reprieve since Mathowie employed it recently.
We know in our guilty little hearts that toys were taken away when we did not play nice with them. How can any few of us guarantee that restoration of privilege will not be followed by recurring abuse of that privilege?
We lost decorative user pages and Mathowie lost a great deal of time and peace of mind because of Pretty_Generic. Now blink is gone due to dios' misuse.
In my opinion, banning dios was sufficient; banning poor little blink was overkill.
Shall we petition #1 for restoration? If so how? By a MeTa thread or by emails to him and Jessamyn?
Now to see if strike tag still works
posted by Cranberry at 11:13 AM on March 30, 2006
Thanks guys!
Ok, about reinstatement, this may get complicated. Do I miss the blink tag? Not that much, really. I love the look & feel of Mefi's emphasis on teh basic, and blink doesnt help there (nor big, or marquee). I mean, I know I wrote a song about it, but hey, singers are actors, you can fake that.
What bothers me about the whole thing is the *way in which* it got banned. Sure, there were some precedents, but dios abusing it and a meta thread ensues == blinkbannination? Come on.
The old adage holds true - it's Matt's site, he's letting us play at his place (quite literally in our case), etc. Still, yeah, I'd be all for disputing this decision, both in the interest of free speech and the basic trust that is at the core of <blink>Metafilter</blink>.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:26 PM on March 30, 2006
Ok, about reinstatement, this may get complicated. Do I miss the blink tag? Not that much, really. I love the look & feel of Mefi's emphasis on teh basic, and blink doesnt help there (nor big, or marquee). I mean, I know I wrote a song about it, but hey, singers are actors, you can fake that.
What bothers me about the whole thing is the *way in which* it got banned. Sure, there were some precedents, but dios abusing it and a meta thread ensues == blinkbannination? Come on.
The old adage holds true - it's Matt's site, he's letting us play at his place (quite literally in our case), etc. Still, yeah, I'd be all for disputing this decision, both in the interest of free speech and the basic trust that is at the core of <blink>Metafilter</blink>.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:26 PM on March 30, 2006
Agreed, gnfti. (PS-I can't find that cd!)
Which cd? Mine? Actually I just took it down today, in favour of promoting a solo EP I just put together. I'm pushing it as a sort of fundraiser for the benefit of recording the new, full-band, Wolkenvelden album.
Screw it: any longboaters who order it get the previous album included for free, and I'll also throw in a personalised version of the EP, with some unreleased demos and the like.
(If you use the Paypal link be sure to email me as well or otherwise drop a note so I know who you are)
*runs* for a cold, refreshing Pepsi Blue
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:54 PM on March 30, 2006
Which cd? Mine? Actually I just took it down today, in favour of promoting a solo EP I just put together. I'm pushing it as a sort of fundraiser for the benefit of recording the new, full-band, Wolkenvelden album.
Screw it: any longboaters who order it get the previous album included for free, and I'll also throw in a personalised version of the EP, with some unreleased demos and the like.
(If you use the Paypal link be sure to email me as well or otherwise drop a note so I know who you are)
*runs* for a cold, refreshing Pepsi Blue
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:54 PM on March 30, 2006
Well, despite my big advocacy, I certainly wouldn't boycott a bring-back-the-blink thread.
Except, of course, that I'm boycotting all threads for the next week or so. Leave a breadcumb, wouldja?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 5:10 AM on March 31, 2006
Except, of course, that I'm boycotting all threads for the next week or so. Leave a breadcumb, wouldja?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 5:10 AM on March 31, 2006
So, is everybody boycotting this thread?
posted by Nice Donkey at 5:38 PM on April 2, 2006
posted by Nice Donkey at 5:38 PM on April 2, 2006
Everyone except you, ND. And me.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:39 AM on April 3, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:39 AM on April 3, 2006
In a weak, superficial attempt to steal Cran's position as Official 9622v2 and Extensions World History Anniversarizer and Commemoratizer, I hereby note the double significance of April 3rd by lifting the following wholesale from the front page of today's Wikipedia:
posted by gramschmidt at 10:44 AM on April 3, 2006
3 April 1922 - Joseph Stalin (pictured) became the first General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.And I'm aware that there is no picture. You know me; I don't like the img tag.
3 April 1936 - Bruno Hauptmann was executed in the electric chair for the kidnapping and murder of the "Lindbergh baby".
posted by gramschmidt at 10:44 AM on April 3, 2006
Let the fate of the Lindbergh baby serve as a warning to anyone who tries to take what doesn't belong - wait, what was that position?
posted by Cranberry at 11:54 AM on April 3, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 11:54 AM on April 3, 2006
re. the fate of the Lindbergh baby: A friend was fairly close with Lindbergh's granddaughter (or maybe greatgd) for a while, and had more than one drunken conversation about the whole affair. He said that she said that within the family it was kind of tacitly assumed that Charlie had been responsible for his own son's death, that the family was pretty big on practical jokes and the speculation was that the kid had died during one such gone wrong.
posted by OmieWise at 1:44 PM on April 3, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 1:44 PM on April 3, 2006
A day without commenting is like a day without commenting.
posted by Cranberry at 2:45 PM on April 4, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 2:45 PM on April 4, 2006
Today a friend told me that her mother says a meal without meat is like a day without sunshine.
I countered with the idea that a day without coffee is like a meal without meat.
And now I see that a day without commenting is like a day without commenting.
So much wisdom the world has imparted to me today!
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:48 PM on April 4, 2006
I countered with the idea that a day without coffee is like a meal without meat.
And now I see that a day without commenting is like a day without commenting.
So much wisdom the world has imparted to me today!
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:48 PM on April 4, 2006
All that wisdom and news, too:
It was on this day in 1614 that John Rolfe and Pocahontas got married in the English colony of Jamestown, Virginia.
posted by Cranberry at 12:32 AM on April 5, 2006
It was on this day in 1614 that John Rolfe and Pocahontas got married in the English colony of Jamestown, Virginia.
posted by Cranberry at 12:32 AM on April 5, 2006
I ate meat in Jamestowne yesterday!
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:01 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:01 PM on April 5, 2006
IIHAA, see here:
Jamestown
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jamestown is the name of several places:
* Jamestown, Saint Helena — the capital of that territory
* Jamestown, Ross-shire, Scotland
* Jamestown, Dunbartonshire, Scotland
* Jamestown, Fife, Scotland
* Jamestown, Eastern Cape Province, South Africa
* Jamestown, California, USA
* Jamestown, Colorado, USA
* Jamestown, Indiana, USA
* Jamestown, Kansas, USA
* Jamestown, Kentucky, USA
* Jamestown, Louisiana, USA
* Jamestown, Missouri, USA
* Jamestown, New York, USA
* Jamestown, North Carolina, USA
* Jamestown, North Dakota, USA
* Jamestown, Ohio, USA
* Jamestown, Oklahoma, USA
* Jamestown, Pennsylvania, USA
* Jamestown, Rhode Island, USA
* Jamestown, South Carolina, USA
* Jamestown, Tennessee, USA
* Jamestown, Virginia, USA — site of the first permanent English settlement in the USA
* Jamestown, West Virginia, USA
* Jamestown, Wisconsin, USA
* Jamestown, South Australia, Australia
Please, clarify your meat-eating claim for us.
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:38 PM on April 5, 2006
Jamestown
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jamestown is the name of several places:
* Jamestown, Saint Helena — the capital of that territory
* Jamestown, Ross-shire, Scotland
* Jamestown, Dunbartonshire, Scotland
* Jamestown, Fife, Scotland
* Jamestown, Eastern Cape Province, South Africa
* Jamestown, California, USA
* Jamestown, Colorado, USA
* Jamestown, Indiana, USA
* Jamestown, Kansas, USA
* Jamestown, Kentucky, USA
* Jamestown, Louisiana, USA
* Jamestown, Missouri, USA
* Jamestown, New York, USA
* Jamestown, North Carolina, USA
* Jamestown, North Dakota, USA
* Jamestown, Ohio, USA
* Jamestown, Oklahoma, USA
* Jamestown, Pennsylvania, USA
* Jamestown, Rhode Island, USA
* Jamestown, South Carolina, USA
* Jamestown, Tennessee, USA
* Jamestown, Virginia, USA — site of the first permanent English settlement in the USA
* Jamestown, West Virginia, USA
* Jamestown, Wisconsin, USA
* Jamestown, South Australia, Australia
Please, clarify your meat-eating claim for us.
posted by Nice Donkey at 8:38 PM on April 5, 2006
Jamestown, Virginia, USA — I watched men blow glass! (And they weren't cheapass jagged glass dildos either! And even the officiale signage couldn't decide if there's an 'e' on the end or not! It was e-tastic!
I admit it, though, I lied about the meat part. It was an orange and a PB&J sandwiche. How did you know?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:49 PM on April 5, 2006
I admit it, though, I lied about the meat part. It was an orange and a PB&J sandwiche. How did you know?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:49 PM on April 5, 2006
Ohe noe, It's Raining Florence Henderson is leaving? And ye olde pot and ye olde kettle?
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:04 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:04 PM on April 5, 2006
I do love ye olde e-tasticity, however.
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:08 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by Nice Donkey at 10:08 PM on April 5, 2006
Funny guy and a great nick. Too bad. But maybe he'll come back as itssnowingcarolbrady.
posted by Cranberry at 12:11 AM on April 6, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 12:11 AM on April 6, 2006
Or It's Hailing Halle Berry.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:49 AM on April 6, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:49 AM on April 6, 2006
Then again, that sounds like a B&J flavour.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:49 AM on April 6, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:49 AM on April 6, 2006
It's Hailing Halle Berry does sound good enough to eat!
posted by Cranberry at 11:29 AM on April 6, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 11:29 AM on April 6, 2006
Note to crew:
It is the 6th; this thread closes on or about the 8th.
11543 = Nothing to see here, move along... You've stumbled upon a non-existent post, or one that was deleted for various reasons.
So, no natural progression on Route 101.
Is 11544 our next haven?
posted by Cranberry at 11:35 AM on April 6, 2006
It is the 6th; this thread closes on or about the 8th.
11543 = Nothing to see here, move along... You've stumbled upon a non-existent post, or one that was deleted for various reasons.
So, no natural progression on Route 101.
Is 11544 our next haven?
posted by Cranberry at 11:35 AM on April 6, 2006
Ooh, 11544 has some nice double numbers in it. I like it.
posted by Nice Donkey at 1:25 PM on April 6, 2006
posted by Nice Donkey at 1:25 PM on April 6, 2006
I will follow!
It's nice to have anus back, or lack, isn't it?
posted by OmieWise at 1:31 PM on April 6, 2006
It's nice to have anus back, or lack, isn't it?
posted by OmieWise at 1:31 PM on April 6, 2006
Kudos to all who commented in MeTa 11641 re: the use of html tags. I hesitated to start a thread like that in order to avoid calling attention to us here. The crew was well represented, but I miss raedyn.
posted by Cranberry at 3:29 PM on April 6, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 3:29 PM on April 6, 2006
via I hesitated to start a thread like that
So you denying cytherea is your puppet?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:13 PM on April 6, 2006
So you denying cytherea is your puppet?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:13 PM on April 6, 2006
Very observant IIHAA!. I was afraid someone would spot the strings between me in Portland and my puppet in NYC.
I am grateful to cytherea for broaching the subject; I am also puzzled by mathowie's offer to restore the blink tag for $20. - since crunchland suggested that mathowie might expect $20. from each mefite who wants to blink.
posted by Cranberry at 11:18 PM on April 6, 2006
I am grateful to cytherea for broaching the subject; I am also puzzled by mathowie's offer to restore the blink tag for $20. - since crunchland suggested that mathowie might expect $20. from each mefite who wants to blink.
posted by Cranberry at 11:18 PM on April 6, 2006
looks like no one has PayPal-ed up the ransom money.
posted by Cranberry at 11:30 PM on April 6, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 11:30 PM on April 6, 2006
Ok, cool. What now?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:03 AM on April 7, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:03 AM on April 7, 2006
Well I don't know about you, but I've already been making the streets around here run with blood.
posted by OmieWise at 8:35 AM on April 7, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 8:35 AM on April 7, 2006
And I've had the runs in the street! It's a MetaFilter miracle!
posted by Behold, I Have An Anus! at 9:11 AM on April 7, 2006
posted by Behold, I Have An Anus! at 9:11 AM on April 7, 2006
Jesus, I have a little work to do and I miss this! Now this comment works both ways.
Also, check bugbread here. Clever bugger.
posted by OmieWise at 11:05 AM on April 7, 2006
Also, check bugbread here. Clever bugger.
posted by OmieWise at 11:05 AM on April 7, 2006
Also delighted that Mathowie is a gracious and responsive owner.
posted by Cranberry at 11:40 AM on April 7, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 11:40 AM on April 7, 2006
IIHAA, should we congratulate you on an addition to your um, anatomy?
posted by Cranberry at 11:41 AM on April 7, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 11:41 AM on April 7, 2006
I'm not so sure, Cranberry. Careful what you wish for and shit.
I just read War & Peace in there.
*lights match*
posted by Behold, I Have An Anus! at 12:13 PM on April 7, 2006
I just read War & Peace in there.
*lights match*
posted by Behold, I Have An Anus! at 12:13 PM on April 7, 2006
Mislead by change in your nick? It doesn't describe change in your plumbing anatomy?
posted by Cranberry at 12:30 PM on April 7, 2006
posted by Cranberry at 12:30 PM on April 7, 2006
I meant I'm not sure if congratulations or sympathies are in order.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 12:33 PM on April 7, 2006
posted by If I Had An Anus at 12:33 PM on April 7, 2006
SHUT UP, YOU.
I meant I'm not sure if congratulations or sympathies are in order.
posted by Behold, I Have An Anus! at 12:34 PM on April 7, 2006
I meant I'm not sure if congratulations or sympathies are in order.
posted by Behold, I Have An Anus! at 12:34 PM on April 7, 2006
Sincere offer of sympa congrat whatever fits the occasion. Now that Kettle and Pot have retired, you can provide arguments among your sock puppets. The traditon lives.
heh, make that
posted by Cranberry at 1:12 PM on April 7, 2006
heh, make that
posted by Cranberry at 1:12 PM on April 7, 2006
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Gator at 2:29 PM on March 8, 2006