how about a limit from Drudge? October 22, 2001 11:44 AM Subscribe
It seems that many of the posts on the front page show up from Drudge. While we talk about limiting posts from CNN, the Onion, etc., how about a limit as well from Drudge?
It's true. Would-be banners always say CNN, Yahoo, The New York Times, the Onion, etc. and then you find the etcetera includes just about everything an "informed" member reads.
This seems a good criterium for a links-only community weblog like memepool - and even then you have to assume people have the time and the patience to sift through all those sources.
Here at MetaFilter, where discussion is such a big part of what's unique and exciting, it seems a shame we are not allowed to discuss anything from the sources we all supposedly read. And where most of the interesting stuff, the best journalists, the more up-to-date news actually come from.
I remember great threads originating from CNN, Yahoo or NYT-based posts.
If we're not careful we'll limit ourselves into some rarefied ethereal little hole in the sky.
My two cents, Rastafari: I think all sources are fair game, as long as the items from them are presented in an intelligent and discussion-provoking way. I know this is heresy but surely heresy has its place too.
The idea of some Vatican-like index of prohibited sources makes me shiver. Drudge Report and it's nemesis Drudge Retort are invaluable resources which pick up most of the newsworthy stuff that people in a hurry get to know about. To ban them would be limiting to us. (Though it would be nice to see both credited when items are lifted from them).
What next, Dante, Shakespeare, Goethe and other authors we all, of course, know by heart? So I say post and let the system - community and, ultimately, Matt - decide. It works OK as it is.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:14 PM on October 22, 2001
This seems a good criterium for a links-only community weblog like memepool - and even then you have to assume people have the time and the patience to sift through all those sources.
Here at MetaFilter, where discussion is such a big part of what's unique and exciting, it seems a shame we are not allowed to discuss anything from the sources we all supposedly read. And where most of the interesting stuff, the best journalists, the more up-to-date news actually come from.
I remember great threads originating from CNN, Yahoo or NYT-based posts.
If we're not careful we'll limit ourselves into some rarefied ethereal little hole in the sky.
My two cents, Rastafari: I think all sources are fair game, as long as the items from them are presented in an intelligent and discussion-provoking way. I know this is heresy but surely heresy has its place too.
The idea of some Vatican-like index of prohibited sources makes me shiver. Drudge Report and it's nemesis Drudge Retort are invaluable resources which pick up most of the newsworthy stuff that people in a hurry get to know about. To ban them would be limiting to us. (Though it would be nice to see both credited when items are lifted from them).
What next, Dante, Shakespeare, Goethe and other authors we all, of course, know by heart? So I say post and let the system - community and, ultimately, Matt - decide. It works OK as it is.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:14 PM on October 22, 2001
What's at stake here isn't necessarily banning links within popular sites, but to the bloody front page of a site which has a "breaking news" non-clickable one-sentence-long headline. (Usually CNN.com). At least the BBC normally won't break a story unless the team has already assigned a specific page to hold everything from the first one-paragraph "breaking" story through to something more substantial.
And linking to the front page of CNN.com is about as useful as linking to the front page of MetaFilter itself.
posted by holgate at 12:47 PM on October 22, 2001
And linking to the front page of CNN.com is about as useful as linking to the front page of MetaFilter itself.
posted by holgate at 12:47 PM on October 22, 2001
I don't have a problem linking to specfic articles on CNN, the New York Times, or other news sites, but I don't think we should just link to the home pages. Those sites are updated constantly, and having just a link to the home page often makes it impossible to find the article later—sometimes even on the day the link is posted.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:00 PM on October 22, 2001
posted by kirkaracha at 1:00 PM on October 22, 2001
I have problems with banning Drudge. There aren't so many that they clutter the front page, and they do tend to spark good (or at least animated) conversation. Besides, I'd rather not hear the righteous (pun intended) indignation if something like that became policy.
posted by jpoulos at 1:09 PM on October 22, 2001
posted by jpoulos at 1:09 PM on October 22, 2001
What next, Dante, Shakespeare, Goethe and other authors we all, of course, know by heart?
Whoa...you know Goethe by heart? Miguel, this is why you're my hero.
posted by ColdChef at 1:11 PM on October 22, 2001
Whoa...you know Goethe by heart? Miguel, this is why you're my hero.
posted by ColdChef at 1:11 PM on October 22, 2001
Well, the post guidelines helpfully point out that a good thread values uniqueness over novelty
It's not all that novel to link to Drudge's latest inflammatory rant, only to have the "conversation" go something like Drudge sucks...Does not...Does too
I know you can't really ban those links, but I really wish they could be kept to less than once a month or so, because I'd hate for MetaFilter to be prized for its reassuring familiarity rather than its ability to take me to some of the most wonderful and insightful stuff I've ever seen (and could never have found on my own)
posted by stefanie at 2:46 PM on October 22, 2001
It's not all that novel to link to Drudge's latest inflammatory rant, only to have the "conversation" go something like Drudge sucks...Does not...Does too
I know you can't really ban those links, but I really wish they could be kept to less than once a month or so, because I'd hate for MetaFilter to be prized for its reassuring familiarity rather than its ability to take me to some of the most wonderful and insightful stuff I've ever seen (and could never have found on my own)
posted by stefanie at 2:46 PM on October 22, 2001
If you bought an ad-link to the Drudge Report, you'd have a stronger argument that anything that linked to it was redundant and not-postable. This is a sneaky way to kill two birds with one stone without enacting any rules. It's the power of a market economy!
posted by dness2 at 3:55 PM on October 22, 2001
posted by dness2 at 3:55 PM on October 22, 2001
Whoa...you know Goethe by heart?
heh, he probably knows it in the original German, too. Crazy Europeans -- all those languages they speak and all. What can we poor uneducated Americans do?
posted by mattpfeff at 3:58 PM on October 22, 2001
heh, he probably knows it in the original German, too. Crazy Europeans -- all those languages they speak and all. What can we poor uneducated Americans do?
posted by mattpfeff at 3:58 PM on October 22, 2001
O. tis the erl-king with his crown and his shroud.
No, my son, it is but a dark wreath of the cloud."
-Goethe, 'The Erl-King".
posted by clavdivs at 5:10 PM on October 22, 2001
No, my son, it is but a dark wreath of the cloud."
-Goethe, 'The Erl-King".
posted by clavdivs at 5:10 PM on October 22, 2001
For such an expert in sarcasm, ColdChef, your antennae are pretty blunt. My point was that almost nobody has the time to read the NYT, Yahoo News, Drudge, the Guardian etc. So a good post from one of these sources, well chosen and well presented, is often the first chance we know of something.
I constantly find on MetaFilter stories and articles I've overlooked from papers and magazines I regularly read. Shock!Horror: I have even learnt about breaking news. That's why I think there should be no limits on our sources - apart from holgate's minimal stricture that a post at least refer to a substantial chunk of news.
My Shakespeare, Dante and Goethe are all very poor, by the way. Every week I find that some well-known quotation is actually from a Shakespeare play. Yes, it's that bad.
We shouldn't pretend we're these sophisticated, up-on-everything, 100% informed geeks - who also have a life, of course! - when we're all desperate for any knowledge we can get.
It's this attitude that leads to excessive policing at MetaFilter. I hate it when someone thanks a poster for a link(SatireWire or MEMRI)and the poster goes "You mean you've never heard of it?" in a polite, but noticeably "what a hick!" way.
Hell,even The Onion I only read now and again. That is until I learnt here on MeFi that everybody knows it's posted every Wednesday. Now I read it every Wednesday.
The ability to click and pass on, or just to pass over; like the virtue of silence and ignoring something you don't like, is tragically underrated here at MetaFilter. The amount of space used to denounce wastes of space must be currently in a proportion of 20:1. Including this.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:57 PM on October 22, 2001
I constantly find on MetaFilter stories and articles I've overlooked from papers and magazines I regularly read. Shock!Horror: I have even learnt about breaking news. That's why I think there should be no limits on our sources - apart from holgate's minimal stricture that a post at least refer to a substantial chunk of news.
My Shakespeare, Dante and Goethe are all very poor, by the way. Every week I find that some well-known quotation is actually from a Shakespeare play. Yes, it's that bad.
We shouldn't pretend we're these sophisticated, up-on-everything, 100% informed geeks - who also have a life, of course! - when we're all desperate for any knowledge we can get.
It's this attitude that leads to excessive policing at MetaFilter. I hate it when someone thanks a poster for a link(SatireWire or MEMRI)and the poster goes "You mean you've never heard of it?" in a polite, but noticeably "what a hick!" way.
Hell,even The Onion I only read now and again. That is until I learnt here on MeFi that everybody knows it's posted every Wednesday. Now I read it every Wednesday.
The ability to click and pass on, or just to pass over; like the virtue of silence and ignoring something you don't like, is tragically underrated here at MetaFilter. The amount of space used to denounce wastes of space must be currently in a proportion of 20:1. Including this.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:57 PM on October 22, 2001
The amount of space used to denounce wastes of space must be currently in a proportion of 20:1
I am sick of people saying stuff like that. I am of the opinion that all such "denouncements" have a positive effect on metafilter. People screaming "double post" make people aware that double posts are a bad thing. People who complain about links to major news stories make people think before posting something that everybody just heard about on the nightly news. If the ratio really is twenty to one, well then we should thank the 20 who posted the policing messages and kept the number of rule-breaking posts so low. I for one would hate to what would happen to mefi if people stopped drawing attention to our community guidelines.
posted by ericost at 9:45 PM on October 22, 2001
I am sick of people saying stuff like that. I am of the opinion that all such "denouncements" have a positive effect on metafilter. People screaming "double post" make people aware that double posts are a bad thing. People who complain about links to major news stories make people think before posting something that everybody just heard about on the nightly news. If the ratio really is twenty to one, well then we should thank the 20 who posted the policing messages and kept the number of rule-breaking posts so low. I for one would hate to what would happen to mefi if people stopped drawing attention to our community guidelines.
posted by ericost at 9:45 PM on October 22, 2001
I agree completely ericost. Without self-policing, people wouldn't think twice...
posted by fooljay at 1:46 AM on October 23, 2001
posted by fooljay at 1:46 AM on October 23, 2001
For such an expert in sarcasm, ColdChef, your antennae are pretty blunt.
Ah, dammit! You're right. That one sailed right over my head. However, I don't want you to mistake my response:
Whoa...you know Goethe by heart? Miguel, this is why you're my hero.
as mean spirited sarcasm.
I'm just a country boy living in the big city, who is a little embarrassed by his shameful lack of education. Smart people impress me.
posted by ColdChef at 6:15 AM on October 23, 2001
Ah, dammit! You're right. That one sailed right over my head. However, I don't want you to mistake my response:
Whoa...you know Goethe by heart? Miguel, this is why you're my hero.
as mean spirited sarcasm.
I'm just a country boy living in the big city, who is a little embarrassed by his shameful lack of education. Smart people impress me.
posted by ColdChef at 6:15 AM on October 23, 2001
Yeah, I have to agree with ericost. Miguel, you almost had me, right up to your last point.
I agree that not everyone has either the time or the inclination to read all of the "must reads", and so links to interesting/informative stories from the common sources are really great. They also give a forum for discussion that doesn't exist in the primary source.
But, at the same time, no front page links to CNN, etc. When that happens pointing out the error is the right thing to do. Once. Nicely. This is why people are starting to hate the "MeFi police". Because they can sometimes be a bit snarky.
Don't get me wrong, I like snark sometimes...
Ah, I just can't make everyone happy, can I?
posted by nprigoda at 11:29 AM on October 23, 2001
I agree that not everyone has either the time or the inclination to read all of the "must reads", and so links to interesting/informative stories from the common sources are really great. They also give a forum for discussion that doesn't exist in the primary source.
But, at the same time, no front page links to CNN, etc. When that happens pointing out the error is the right thing to do. Once. Nicely. This is why people are starting to hate the "MeFi police". Because they can sometimes be a bit snarky.
Don't get me wrong, I like snark sometimes...
Ah, I just can't make everyone happy, can I?
posted by nprigoda at 11:29 AM on October 23, 2001
Don't get me wrong, I like snark sometimes...
Thank you!
posted by snarkout at 2:57 PM on October 23, 2001
Thank you!
posted by snarkout at 2:57 PM on October 23, 2001
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posted by ColdChef at 12:10 PM on October 22, 2001