Hiroshima thread callout December 27, 2006 10:22 AM Subscribe
Cleanup on Aisle 57279! What was a really awesome discussion about Hiroshima has now turned to feces-flinging . (This comment being the tipping point, as far as I can see. It's downhill from here.) As someone who was legitimately enjoying the thought provoking comments on the ethics of it all, can we at least move the personal in-fighting over here?
a retarded, hateful little shit, none of whose comments would ever be missed
I give this a B- for creativity and C+ for execution. There's doubt among psychologists as to whether those suffering from mental retardation can be capable of evil thought and motives.
Also, persons made entirely out of fecal matter are unlikely to be able to use a keyboard.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 10:27 AM on December 27, 2006
I give this a B- for creativity and C+ for execution. There's doubt among psychologists as to whether those suffering from mental retardation can be capable of evil thought and motives.
Also, persons made entirely out of fecal matter are unlikely to be able to use a keyboard.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 10:27 AM on December 27, 2006
Mayor: I just hoped we could choke on our sandwiches elsewhere is all. Things were going so well! *sigh* This is why we can't have political discussions nice things.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 10:31 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by grapefruitmoon at 10:31 AM on December 27, 2006
Metafilter: You People.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:33 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:33 AM on December 27, 2006
There's doubt among psychologists as to whether those suffering from mental retardation can be capable of evil thought and motives.
You're probably just riffing, but on the off chance that you aren't, can I get a cite?
posted by cortex at 10:37 AM on December 27, 2006
You're probably just riffing, but on the off chance that you aren't, can I get a cite?
posted by cortex at 10:37 AM on December 27, 2006
I thought the batshitinsane PC contingent frowned on using the word "retarded," especially in a derrogatory manner. That's a demerit.
posted by keswick at 10:44 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by keswick at 10:44 AM on December 27, 2006
Yeah, leave it up. If you look close, it's mostly great discussion, with really only two exceptions:
(1) keswick, who's a troll, and unable to take part in discussion. Should be ignored, and it isn't hard, as keswick rarely makes more than one stupid comment in a thread. But it wasn't; eh, no matter. keswick didn't get involved anyway, so it didn't hurt much.
(2) sonofsamiam and sfts2's argument, which is more funny to me than bad, as sfts2 keeps calling sonofsamiam "son." As in, "don't quit your day job, son." Which makes him come off more as your pissed-off grandpa than anybody else.
There's some anger, and I can't claim to be innocent, but anger about this sort of thing is an understandable reaction. The trick here is to channel it into meaningful discussion, and that's been done a lot in that thread.
So: I don't think that thread even needs cleanup. I got a lot out of it; the bitterness is natural and fits pretty well, so long as sftsstfstsfsttsfss2 and sonofsonof let the personal argument end.
posted by koeselitz at 10:54 AM on December 27, 2006
(1) keswick, who's a troll, and unable to take part in discussion. Should be ignored, and it isn't hard, as keswick rarely makes more than one stupid comment in a thread. But it wasn't; eh, no matter. keswick didn't get involved anyway, so it didn't hurt much.
(2) sonofsamiam and sfts2's argument, which is more funny to me than bad, as sfts2 keeps calling sonofsamiam "son." As in, "don't quit your day job, son." Which makes him come off more as your pissed-off grandpa than anybody else.
There's some anger, and I can't claim to be innocent, but anger about this sort of thing is an understandable reaction. The trick here is to channel it into meaningful discussion, and that's been done a lot in that thread.
So: I don't think that thread even needs cleanup. I got a lot out of it; the bitterness is natural and fits pretty well, so long as sftsstfstsfsttsfss2 and sonofsonof let the personal argument end.
posted by koeselitz at 10:54 AM on December 27, 2006
Opinions that contradict mine? He must be a troll!
posted by keswick at 11:03 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by keswick at 11:03 AM on December 27, 2006
cortex, i was riffing, but take a look at Atkins v. Virginia, 536 U.S. 304 (2002), where the Supreme Court, through Justice Stevens, holds that mentally retarded individuals cannot be subject to the death penalty because "they do not act with the level of moral culpability that characterizes the most serious adult criminal conduct."
posted by Saucy Intruder at 11:03 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by Saucy Intruder at 11:03 AM on December 27, 2006
Jesus, that thread makes me want a drink. *pours self a Nog-a-sake*
posted by ND¢ at 11:04 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by ND¢ at 11:04 AM on December 27, 2006
Wow, my first callout ever!
So, yeah, I hate keswick. Not because he's conservative or because of his views, but because of his personality. If I could crap on his head via remote, I would. And will yet, God and Edmund Scientific Supply willing.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:16 AM on December 27, 2006
So, yeah, I hate keswick. Not because he's conservative or because of his views, but because of his personality. If I could crap on his head via remote, I would. And will yet, God and Edmund Scientific Supply willing.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:16 AM on December 27, 2006
keswick: "Opinions that contradict mine? He must be a troll!"
Well, maybe I'm using that term wrong. How's about this: you tend to leave a single one-line inflammatory comment and then leave without bothering to take part in discussion constructively.
posted by koeselitz at 11:19 AM on December 27, 2006
Well, maybe I'm using that term wrong. How's about this: you tend to leave a single one-line inflammatory comment and then leave without bothering to take part in discussion constructively.
posted by koeselitz at 11:19 AM on December 27, 2006
can we at least move the personal in-fighting over here?
posted by grapefruitmoon
So is this the designated put-up-your-dukes thread? Bare knuckles, bared teeth, bare naked hatred? Hoo boy! Let the hate begin!
posted by leftcoastbob at 11:19 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by grapefruitmoon
So is this the designated put-up-your-dukes thread? Bare knuckles, bared teeth, bare naked hatred? Hoo boy! Let the hate begin!
posted by leftcoastbob at 11:19 AM on December 27, 2006
Shut the fuck up, leftcoastbob!
Yuck yuck yuck, I slay myself!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:22 AM on December 27, 2006 [2 favorites]
Yuck yuck yuck, I slay myself!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:22 AM on December 27, 2006 [2 favorites]
Yuck yuck yuck, I slay myself!
You won't be the only one.
posted by koeselitz at 11:23 AM on December 27, 2006
You won't be the only one.
posted by koeselitz at 11:23 AM on December 27, 2006
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:24 AM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:24 AM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
sonofsamiam: So yeah, I hate keswick. Not because he's conservative or because of his views, but because of his personality. If I could crap on his head via remote, I would. And will yet, God and Edmund Scientific Supply willing.
Personal insults aren't helping any of us here, guy, and they sure don't belong in the thread. Email him or punch a pillow or something.
posted by koeselitz at 11:27 AM on December 27, 2006
Personal insults aren't helping any of us here, guy, and they sure don't belong in the thread. Email him or punch a pillow or something.
posted by koeselitz at 11:27 AM on December 27, 2006
*snifffff...*
Ah, the fresh scent of that first juicy meta after the Christmas lull!
posted by koeselitz at 11:28 AM on December 27, 2006
Ah, the fresh scent of that first juicy meta after the Christmas lull!
posted by koeselitz at 11:28 AM on December 27, 2006
Personal insults aside, I can just see the ad copy in ES to sell that remote head-crapper.
posted by Partial Law at 11:28 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by Partial Law at 11:28 AM on December 27, 2006
You have to admit, though, that "I dislike his personality" is a restrained personal insult for a MeTa thread.
posted by cortex at 11:31 AM on December 27, 2006
posted by cortex at 11:31 AM on December 27, 2006
Personal insults aren't helping any of us here, guy, and they sure don't belong in the thread.
No they help me alot...oh yeah you guys are all still here.
Email him or punch a pillow or something.
Will do. A poisoned email.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:33 AM on December 27, 2006
No they help me alot...oh yeah you guys are all still here.
Email him or punch a pillow or something.
Will do. A poisoned email.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:33 AM on December 27, 2006
We should take off and nuke this thread from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:43 AM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:43 AM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
IRFH, the thread's too populated. We should bomb a lifeless music.metafilter post first, as a demonstration.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:54 AM on December 27, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:54 AM on December 27, 2006 [2 favorites]
OK, who is on holiday this week?
posted by nj_subgenius at 12:08 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by nj_subgenius at 12:08 PM on December 27, 2006
The capacity for some people to re-argue the distant past as if there were some tangible benefit to doing so never ceases to amaze me.
I understand the adage about not forgetting the past lest we repeat our mistakes. But that is substantially different from arguing stuff to make the point about how wrong/right we were when we did X decades ago.
This feeling struck me again in peeking at the Gerald Ford when I noticed that some people felt the need to make 20+ comments in an obit thread about all the wrong stuff that happened in the late 70's as if any of it mattered today in any real way. Of course, the Gerald Ford thread did allow me to see the distinction with the Hiroshima thread: the underlying issue of the moral and ethical calculus involved in massive weapons still theoretically exists, whereas the re-hashing of Ford's action is pure political masturbation.
That people want to seriously re-discuss Hiroshima is not entirely surprising. That people want to argue over it to the point of heated attacks is both confusing and sad to me. What's the point?
posted by dios at 12:29 PM on December 27, 2006
I understand the adage about not forgetting the past lest we repeat our mistakes. But that is substantially different from arguing stuff to make the point about how wrong/right we were when we did X decades ago.
This feeling struck me again in peeking at the Gerald Ford when I noticed that some people felt the need to make 20+ comments in an obit thread about all the wrong stuff that happened in the late 70's as if any of it mattered today in any real way. Of course, the Gerald Ford thread did allow me to see the distinction with the Hiroshima thread: the underlying issue of the moral and ethical calculus involved in massive weapons still theoretically exists, whereas the re-hashing of Ford's action is pure political masturbation.
That people want to seriously re-discuss Hiroshima is not entirely surprising. That people want to argue over it to the point of heated attacks is both confusing and sad to me. What's the point?
posted by dios at 12:29 PM on December 27, 2006
This is the fighting thread...?
Alright, I put on my robe and wizard hat.
posted by drezdn at 12:35 PM on December 27, 2006
Alright, I put on my robe and wizard hat.
posted by drezdn at 12:35 PM on December 27, 2006
I agree with koeselitz (and I thought this was a classy and thoughtful comment, which he made well after your "tipping point"). It's a heated thread, but aside from the exceptions he mentioned, not nearly nasty enough to qualify for aisle-cleaning. Frankly, I thought it was headed straight for hell much earlier, but it righted itself and got quite interesting. (I didn't bother leaving my opinion there—I think dropping the bombs was morally wrong by any useful standard—because I've done so before in other threads, and frankly I get bored by my own opinions sometimes.)
posted by languagehat at 12:41 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by languagehat at 12:41 PM on December 27, 2006
The funny thing is I don't really consider myself conservative; it's just that there's a certain vocal element here that's so far to the left that they would make Lenin look like a rightwinger. (Not to mention making us saner lefties look bad.)
posted by keswick at 12:45 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by keswick at 12:45 PM on December 27, 2006
In a community, it's good to know who has few or no qualms about vaporizing innocent people.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:46 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:46 PM on December 27, 2006
keswick: once again, not about that.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:49 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:49 PM on December 27, 2006
"...whereas the re-hashing of Ford's action is pure political masturbation."
You can have my political masturbation when you pry it from my greasy, claw-like, metaphorical left hand.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:50 PM on December 27, 2006
You can have my political masturbation when you pry it from my greasy, claw-like, metaphorical left hand.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:50 PM on December 27, 2006
...and frankly I get bored by my own opinions sometimes.
I want to applaud this sentiment (not particularly in you, 'hat, always like to see your thoughts) and agree mightily, and wish it were more widely felt, but doing so would be too boring.
posted by zoinks at 12:56 PM on December 27, 2006
I want to applaud this sentiment (not particularly in you, 'hat, always like to see your thoughts) and agree mightily, and wish it were more widely felt, but doing so would be too boring.
posted by zoinks at 12:56 PM on December 27, 2006
> The capacity for some people to re-argue the distant past as if there were some tangible
> benefit to doing so never ceases to amaze me.
You know, some of that shit Genghis Khan did was just wrong. And I expect to earn a while lot of ethical brownie points for having the sensitivity to notice.
posted by jfuller at 1:18 PM on December 27, 2006
> benefit to doing so never ceases to amaze me.
You know, some of that shit Genghis Khan did was just wrong. And I expect to earn a while lot of ethical brownie points for having the sensitivity to notice.
posted by jfuller at 1:18 PM on December 27, 2006
I'd like an Ugly Naked Guy with pinto beans and steak, please, with a Blabber Mouth Soup and Pinky Tuscudero.
Thank you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:20 PM on December 27, 2006
Thank you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:20 PM on December 27, 2006
the moral and ethical calculus involved in massive weapons still theoretically exists
There's nothing theorectical about it. "Tactically" nuking Iran is seriously discussed in the White House.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 1:33 PM on December 27, 2006
There's nothing theorectical about it. "Tactically" nuking Iran is seriously discussed in the White House.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 1:33 PM on December 27, 2006
I understand the adage about not forgetting the past lest we repeat our mistakes.
Based on the rest of that comment, I doubt it.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:40 PM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
Based on the rest of that comment, I doubt it.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:40 PM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
I don't support repeating the mistakes of the past. I encourage making whole new ones. Then everyone is happy.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:02 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by blue_beetle at 2:02 PM on December 27, 2006
If this is supposed to be the hate-filled thread, I'm sorely disappointed. I've seen more hate in a Richard Simmons thread.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD--WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE? at something. or someone. or not. whatever.
posted by leftcoastbob at 2:11 PM on December 27, 2006
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD--WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE? at something. or someone. or not. whatever.
posted by leftcoastbob at 2:11 PM on December 27, 2006
leftcoastbob: "I've seen more hate in a Richard Simmons thread."
I'd like to see that one. Link please.
posted by koeselitz at 2:20 PM on December 27, 2006
I'd like to see that one. Link please.
posted by koeselitz at 2:20 PM on December 27, 2006
PUT ON SOME LONG PANTS, SIMMONS...
...preferably with a fish in them.
posted by wendell at 2:39 PM on December 27, 2006
...preferably with a fish in them.
posted by wendell at 2:39 PM on December 27, 2006
In a community, it's good to know who has few or no qualms about vaporizing innocent people.
How utterly boring of you. If you want to drag the Hiroshima argument into this thread, at least have the decency to either be 1) intelligent or 2) witty.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:42 PM on December 27, 2006
How utterly boring of you. If you want to drag the Hiroshima argument into this thread, at least have the decency to either be 1) intelligent or 2) witty.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:42 PM on December 27, 2006
You know, some of that shit Genghis Khan did was just wrong.
The place I was just working in - "English Village", South Korea - had a restaurant called Genghis Khan, some kind of faux Mongolian noodle house. The advertising byline on the sign outside was "It's fun to choose". I thought a more appropriate catchphrase would be "submit or die".
But maybe that wouldn't sell as many noodles.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:52 PM on December 27, 2006
The place I was just working in - "English Village", South Korea - had a restaurant called Genghis Khan, some kind of faux Mongolian noodle house. The advertising byline on the sign outside was "It's fun to choose". I thought a more appropriate catchphrase would be "submit or die".
But maybe that wouldn't sell as many noodles.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:52 PM on December 27, 2006
Maybe if the sign had said, "Choose the form of the traveler"?
posted by cgc373 at 2:54 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by cgc373 at 2:54 PM on December 27, 2006
In a community, it's good to know who has few or no qualms about vaporizing innocent people.
why, OF COURSE i have qualms about vaporizing innocent people ... scorch-marks are practically IMPOSSIBLE to get out of linoleum
posted by pyramid termite at 3:01 PM on December 27, 2006
why, OF COURSE i have qualms about vaporizing innocent people ... scorch-marks are practically IMPOSSIBLE to get out of linoleum
posted by pyramid termite at 3:01 PM on December 27, 2006
How utterly boring of you. If you want to drag the Hiroshima argument into this thread, at least have the decency to either be 1) intelligent or 2) witty.
I was trying to be a little witty about silly notions of "community standards" (as such), but on another level also I'm quite serious — having learned from experience — that it's good to know who the crazies are: it's like walking through a metaphorical neighborhood and knowing where the mad dog lives, so you can take the initiative and walk a different street when it starts foaming at the mouth and chewing away on its leash.
What is utterly boring are trolls (and threads about them). If there's anything I've learned, it's that they will almost always have the upper hand in a "community" where many value conflict, and so it gains one practically nothing to call them out — if indeed it doesn't worsen the situation. Let it be: ignore them and their comment numbers will go down.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:03 PM on December 27, 2006
I was trying to be a little witty about silly notions of "community standards" (as such), but on another level also I'm quite serious — having learned from experience — that it's good to know who the crazies are: it's like walking through a metaphorical neighborhood and knowing where the mad dog lives, so you can take the initiative and walk a different street when it starts foaming at the mouth and chewing away on its leash.
What is utterly boring are trolls (and threads about them). If there's anything I've learned, it's that they will almost always have the upper hand in a "community" where many value conflict, and so it gains one practically nothing to call them out — if indeed it doesn't worsen the situation. Let it be: ignore them and their comment numbers will go down.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:03 PM on December 27, 2006
Blazecock Pileon :In a community, it's good to know who has few or no qualms about vaporizing innocent people.
Well then, in the interests of full disclosure, I should probably mention here that I don't think any of you fuckers are "innocent" and as such, will feel little remorse when my orbital death ray is finally operational.
That is all.
posted by quin at 3:12 PM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
Well then, in the interests of full disclosure, I should probably mention here that I don't think any of you fuckers are "innocent" and as such, will feel little remorse when my orbital death ray is finally operational.
That is all.
posted by quin at 3:12 PM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
I'm innocent when I dream.
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:21 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:21 PM on December 27, 2006
Also, persons made entirely out of fecal matter are unlikely to be able to use a keyboard.
[insert countless office jokes here]
posted by me & my monkey at 3:22 PM on December 27, 2006
[insert countless office jokes here]
posted by me & my monkey at 3:22 PM on December 27, 2006
Let it be: ignore them and their comment numbers will go down.
Had we (you and I) listened to this advice, I think it's safe to say that neither one of us would have commented at all in this thread.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 3:25 PM on December 27, 2006
Had we (you and I) listened to this advice, I think it's safe to say that neither one of us would have commented at all in this thread.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 3:25 PM on December 27, 2006
Had we (you and I) listened to this advice, I think it's safe to say that neither one of us would have commented at all in this thread.
You're right: now let us never speak of this again :)
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2006
You're right: now let us never speak of this again :)
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2006
Astro Zombie: I'm innocent when I dream.
Yeah? Well, I'm going straight to the top.
posted by koeselitz at 3:45 PM on December 27, 2006
Yeah? Well, I'm going straight to the top.
posted by koeselitz at 3:45 PM on December 27, 2006
Also, persons made entirely out of fecal matter are unlikely to be able to use a keyboard.
and they stink like hell when they're vaporized
posted by pyramid termite at 3:45 PM on December 27, 2006
and they stink like hell when they're vaporized
posted by pyramid termite at 3:45 PM on December 27, 2006
Also, persons made entirely out of fecal matter are unlikely to be able to use a keyboard.
...unless they're using an Atari 400.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:22 PM on December 27, 2006
...unless they're using an Atari 400.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:22 PM on December 27, 2006
That people want to seriously re-discuss Hiroshima is not entirely surprising. That people want to argue over it to the point of heated attacks is both confusing and sad to me. What's the point?
Unfortunately, many people, on Metafilter and elsewhere (as I'm sure you've noticed) seem to regard discussion, and especially heated discussion, as argument -- in other words as something to be won, rather than a cooperative game. Some are enraged and threatened by opinions that differ from their own, particularly when the topic is a matter about which they feel strongly, and they lash out.
So for some, the point is winning. For others, discovering what they and other people think, and even possibly shifting their own beliefs when presented with good reasons to do so. And some people are just in it for the shits and giggles.
Almost nobody always leans to one pole or the other, but people do have their tendencies.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:29 PM on December 27, 2006
Unfortunately, many people, on Metafilter and elsewhere (as I'm sure you've noticed) seem to regard discussion, and especially heated discussion, as argument -- in other words as something to be won, rather than a cooperative game. Some are enraged and threatened by opinions that differ from their own, particularly when the topic is a matter about which they feel strongly, and they lash out.
So for some, the point is winning. For others, discovering what they and other people think, and even possibly shifting their own beliefs when presented with good reasons to do so. And some people are just in it for the shits and giggles.
Almost nobody always leans to one pole or the other, but people do have their tendencies.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:29 PM on December 27, 2006
True dat, what you say above, stav. Do you suppose there's any way to filter our lovely MetaFilter further to encourage more of a sense of discussion-as-cooperative-game, instead of discussion-as-Survivor–style-competition?
posted by cgc373 at 4:41 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by cgc373 at 4:41 PM on December 27, 2006
Tremendous self-control, cgc373, or heavy moderation. The former is a lovely dream and nothing more; the latter the very death of MeFi.
Meetups can work pretty well, though.
posted by cortex at 4:48 PM on December 27, 2006
Meetups can work pretty well, though.
posted by cortex at 4:48 PM on December 27, 2006
Metafilter has a reputation as a contentious, snarky place all around the 'net. It also still has a reputation as being relatively smart, at least in contrast to some other Major Destinations, and despite the fact that many people over the years have given up because they thought it was getting too Loud and Dumb for them.
But the reputation for verbal fisticuffs (so goes my theory) has attracted a number of new users who came here expecting it, or seeking it. This has not been a good thing. On the other hand, the relatively strict rule of being on-topic and helpful in Ask (mainly for which so many new users have registered) has provided a sort of counterbalance to that, which is good.
The short anwer, though, cgc373, I think, is: not really. Try to engage people, try not to be too much of a dick, try to discourage other people from being dicks, same old same old.
Regardless, I think two things working in tandem have raised the bar a lot in recent months: the ability to favoritize comments, which gives people incentive to be coherent or witty or insightful or whatever, and the banning of images, which focusses people on the words, and discourages the kind of groundswell of driveby LOLarity that drags many other large-population web communityish sites down to the lowest common denominator toute de suite.
I know lots of people miss images, and I do too, but I think their absence is a good thing for the level of intelligence and civility here over the long term, especially while many new users continue to register.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:58 PM on December 27, 2006
But the reputation for verbal fisticuffs (so goes my theory) has attracted a number of new users who came here expecting it, or seeking it. This has not been a good thing. On the other hand, the relatively strict rule of being on-topic and helpful in Ask (mainly for which so many new users have registered) has provided a sort of counterbalance to that, which is good.
The short anwer, though, cgc373, I think, is: not really. Try to engage people, try not to be too much of a dick, try to discourage other people from being dicks, same old same old.
Regardless, I think two things working in tandem have raised the bar a lot in recent months: the ability to favoritize comments, which gives people incentive to be coherent or witty or insightful or whatever, and the banning of images, which focusses people on the words, and discourages the kind of groundswell of driveby LOLarity that drags many other large-population web communityish sites down to the lowest common denominator toute de suite.
I know lots of people miss images, and I do too, but I think their absence is a good thing for the level of intelligence and civility here over the long term, especially while many new users continue to register.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:58 PM on December 27, 2006
Meetups can work pretty well, though.
Maybe, cortex, but I find people in real life harder to deal with than people on the web (at least, people on the Blue, Green, and Gray web). I don't find it easy to deal with people on the web, either; only easier. I'm a bit of a misanthrope and a bit of a bitter pill. Oddly, I get along well with people in person, but as it's not easy or comfortable for me to do so, I tend to avoid it anyway.
"relatively smart"
Ain't it the truth, though. Hereabouts, we do seem relatively smart, compared with a lot of other web destinations. I wish we were better, but we do what we can. I'm glad to be here, most days, since even at our worst we're not hopeless, and hopelessness tends to drag me down when I'm elsewhere. (YouTube's comments, especially, upset me.)
posted by cgc373 at 5:07 PM on December 27, 2006
Maybe, cortex, but I find people in real life harder to deal with than people on the web (at least, people on the Blue, Green, and Gray web). I don't find it easy to deal with people on the web, either; only easier. I'm a bit of a misanthrope and a bit of a bitter pill. Oddly, I get along well with people in person, but as it's not easy or comfortable for me to do so, I tend to avoid it anyway.
"relatively smart"
Ain't it the truth, though. Hereabouts, we do seem relatively smart, compared with a lot of other web destinations. I wish we were better, but we do what we can. I'm glad to be here, most days, since even at our worst we're not hopeless, and hopelessness tends to drag me down when I'm elsewhere. (YouTube's comments, especially, upset me.)
posted by cgc373 at 5:07 PM on December 27, 2006
I know lots of people miss images, and I do too, but I think their absence is a good thing for the level of intelligence and civility here over the long term,
........
posted by jonmc at 5:07 PM on December 27, 2006
........
posted by jonmc at 5:07 PM on December 27, 2006
Yes, well. Thanks for helping to make my point, I guess, jon.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:30 PM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:30 PM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
People always forget there are killfiles available for MeFi. They work fairly well too.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 6:10 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 6:10 PM on December 27, 2006
Myself and others have argued before that killfiles=evil. Each to their own, though.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:20 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:20 PM on December 27, 2006
I didn't mean that anything should be CHANGED about the Hiroshima thread, just that the whole thing could be, oh, cleaned-up by moving the fighting over HERE.
But then no one showed up, except some dudes in hats. I guess this is what happens when you post to MetaTalk and then leave the house. *sigh* The comment about crapping on someone via remote was pretty good though.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 6:36 PM on December 27, 2006
But then no one showed up, except some dudes in hats. I guess this is what happens when you post to MetaTalk and then leave the house. *sigh* The comment about crapping on someone via remote was pretty good though.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 6:36 PM on December 27, 2006
(And hey, one person in hats amongst the questioning of the viability of this call-out business makes this my most sucessful MetaTalk post yet!)
posted by grapefruitmoon at 6:37 PM on December 27, 2006
posted by grapefruitmoon at 6:37 PM on December 27, 2006
my most sucessful MetaTalk post yet!
Well, by golly, just go ahead and pat yourself on the back, there grapefruit!
But remember, you can never really be successful if you misspell successful.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:26 PM on December 27, 2006
Well, by golly, just go ahead and pat yourself on the back, there grapefruit!
But remember, you can never really be successful if you misspell successful.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:26 PM on December 27, 2006
matt, you have GOT to get spell check working again!! ... it's no longer just a matter of proper english
our success depends on it
posted by pyramid termite at 7:55 PM on December 27, 2006
our success depends on it
posted by pyramid termite at 7:55 PM on December 27, 2006
I'll admit I stopped following the thread at some point yesterday, but I just wanted to say that koeselitz, with whom I do disagree, did a pretty awesome job of making his point. So yay for you.
Also, dios, people discuss prior events because it sheds light on current ones and suggests approaches to future ones. I know you're just pretending not to know that so you can continue your awesome reign of assholishness, but hey, I'm a dreamer.
posted by dame at 8:52 PM on December 27, 2006
Also, dios, people discuss prior events because it sheds light on current ones and suggests approaches to future ones. I know you're just pretending not to know that so you can continue your awesome reign of assholishness, but hey, I'm a dreamer.
posted by dame at 8:52 PM on December 27, 2006
dame, he didn't ask why people "discuss prior events", dios wondered why people "want to argue over it to the point of heated attacks." Of course, your deliberate misquoting of him gives you a chance to call him an asshole, an insult that (as far as I can see in this thread) seems completely unprovoked. Well done, you've help raise the tone around here.
posted by jonson at 11:35 PM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by jonson at 11:35 PM on December 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
Okay, then, they do it because they really care about the interpretation of future events. Does that make you feel better? (And I posted mainly to praise koeslitz.)
posted by dame at 5:42 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by dame at 5:42 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by dame at 11:52 PM EST on December 27 [+ 1 favorite] [!]
Mr. Pileon, sir, may I say that I find it a little creepy that you favorite every negative comment about dios? I mean I appreciate your efforts (for without them I would have practically no favorited comments at all), but it seems rather obsessive.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 5:42 AM on December 28, 2006
Mr. Pileon, sir, may I say that I find it a little creepy that you favorite every negative comment about dios? I mean I appreciate your efforts (for without them I would have practically no favorited comments at all), but it seems rather obsessive.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 5:42 AM on December 28, 2006
Yeah? Well, I'm going straight to the top.
And you know what waits for you there? Temptation.
You can't resist.
posted by malocchio at 7:05 AM on December 28, 2006
And you know what waits for you there? Temptation.
You can't resist.
posted by malocchio at 7:05 AM on December 28, 2006
Look, I know people who think I just hate dios for no reason won't really care, but in my pointless quest:
I just finished reading the Ford thread (from where I dropped off the other day), and all I see in it is a mostly reasonable discussion of an event that does affect our images of the presidency today and folks who were involved then and are still around now. People are somewhat heated, sure, mostly because that interpretation is still contested ground, but there are worthwhile points, angry and not. And dios comes along to insult about half of Metafilter for arguing contentious things well, for no reason I can see other than to keep playing his condescending, contrarian persona. It reminds me of nothing so much as Seth, constantly bitching that no one lives up to his standards of what's important and dismissing the idea that this is a place for people who value what you do not, as well as for you.
Frankly, I think that is much worse than calling one person an asshole. So go ahead and dismiss it for whatever reasons you want to--because I'm bitchy, because we argue about dios too much, because secretly this is just about my hatred of his politics, whatever--but I don't think it's unreasonable.
posted by dame at 7:14 AM on December 28, 2006 [1 favorite]
I just finished reading the Ford thread (from where I dropped off the other day), and all I see in it is a mostly reasonable discussion of an event that does affect our images of the presidency today and folks who were involved then and are still around now. People are somewhat heated, sure, mostly because that interpretation is still contested ground, but there are worthwhile points, angry and not. And dios comes along to insult about half of Metafilter for arguing contentious things well, for no reason I can see other than to keep playing his condescending, contrarian persona. It reminds me of nothing so much as Seth, constantly bitching that no one lives up to his standards of what's important and dismissing the idea that this is a place for people who value what you do not, as well as for you.
Frankly, I think that is much worse than calling one person an asshole. So go ahead and dismiss it for whatever reasons you want to--because I'm bitchy, because we argue about dios too much, because secretly this is just about my hatred of his politics, whatever--but I don't think it's unreasonable.
posted by dame at 7:14 AM on December 28, 2006 [1 favorite]
*bangs two Matchbox cars together on desk*
that help?
posted by jonmc at 7:39 AM on December 28, 2006
that help?
posted by jonmc at 7:39 AM on December 28, 2006
dios writes "The capacity for some people to re-argue the distant past as if there were some tangible benefit to doing so never ceases to amaze me."
You know what? He's right. Discussion isn't going to change anything that happened over 60 years ago. So people should stop talking about it.
Come to think of it, all discussion of what the Bush administration is doing should probably stop also, for the same reason. This administration just doesn't listen to outside counsel, ergo we are powerless to change anything about it, and thus we should never mention those things ever again.
And what's the point of discussing the future? It hasn't happened yet, it might not happen at all, it's all wild speculation, so there probably shouldn't be any discussion about THAT, as it's just as pointless as discussing the past, but for different reasons.
What's left? some would say "the present", but there's really no such thing as the present, just the future constantly becoming the past.
So on that basis we might as well shut down Metafilter, because when it comes right down to it there's no point in talking about anything.
So thanks D for pointing this out. It would seem that we've both been wasting a tremendous amount of time here in the past few years!
posted by clevershark at 7:46 AM on December 28, 2006
You know what? He's right. Discussion isn't going to change anything that happened over 60 years ago. So people should stop talking about it.
Come to think of it, all discussion of what the Bush administration is doing should probably stop also, for the same reason. This administration just doesn't listen to outside counsel, ergo we are powerless to change anything about it, and thus we should never mention those things ever again.
And what's the point of discussing the future? It hasn't happened yet, it might not happen at all, it's all wild speculation, so there probably shouldn't be any discussion about THAT, as it's just as pointless as discussing the past, but for different reasons.
What's left? some would say "the present", but there's really no such thing as the present, just the future constantly becoming the past.
So on that basis we might as well shut down Metafilter, because when it comes right down to it there's no point in talking about anything.
So thanks D for pointing this out. It would seem that we've both been wasting a tremendous amount of time here in the past few years!
posted by clevershark at 7:46 AM on December 28, 2006
It would seem that we've both been wasting a tremendous amount of time here in the past few years!
But what's the point of talking about it? It's over!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:08 AM on December 28, 2006
But what's the point of talking about it? It's over!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:08 AM on December 28, 2006
Exactly! Now we can all go back to discussing obscure points of law.
posted by clevershark at 8:23 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by clevershark at 8:23 AM on December 28, 2006
Metafilter: wasting a tremendous amount of time here in the past few years.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:53 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:53 AM on December 28, 2006
when it comes right down to it there's no point in talking about anything.
the size of my net.penis is always worth talking about for me ... i can understand why others don't feel equipped to handle the subject
posted by pyramid termite at 9:20 AM on December 28, 2006
the size of my net.penis is always worth talking about for me ... i can understand why others don't feel equipped to handle the subject
posted by pyramid termite at 9:20 AM on December 28, 2006
Yeah, my eyesight isn't what it used to be.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:43 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:43 AM on December 28, 2006
Penis.NET? Talk about micro soft!
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 9:52 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 9:52 AM on December 28, 2006
jonson gets a gold star for being the only person referencing my comment who has any reading comprehension. The rest of the shit-for-brains are just the usual people who can't be bothered to actually read and understand what I am saying and instead want to play "bash the dios strawman" for another round.... the ultimate irony being the bitchiest person (alive?) objecting on the grounds that her mis-reading led her to believe that I was 'bitching.'
Honestly folks, is reading comprehension *that* hard?
posted by dios at 9:53 AM on December 28, 2006 [1 favorite]
Honestly folks, is reading comprehension *that* hard?
posted by dios at 9:53 AM on December 28, 2006 [1 favorite]
dios, you're just pissed because i defended ford's decision to pardon better than you would have and i handled all the negative reaction (which really was just counter-argument) with more class than you do
honestly, dios, is having something to say and saying it well *that* hard?
tell you what ... when you can get into an actual debate with someone here without it turning into a shit flinging contest, then you can start telling us how we should talk to one another
free clue - your last comment is right where the worst of the name calling and shit-flinging started
posted by pyramid termite at 10:07 AM on December 28, 2006
honestly, dios, is having something to say and saying it well *that* hard?
tell you what ... when you can get into an actual debate with someone here without it turning into a shit flinging contest, then you can start telling us how we should talk to one another
free clue - your last comment is right where the worst of the name calling and shit-flinging started
posted by pyramid termite at 10:07 AM on December 28, 2006
Hey! We've managed to contain the fecal matter to just our brains, at least. It's progress, people!
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 10:12 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 10:12 AM on December 28, 2006
wait ... what's this coming out of my ass, then?
posted by pyramid termite at 10:20 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by pyramid termite at 10:20 AM on December 28, 2006
The more things change, the more dios stays the same.
posted by clevershark at 10:46 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by clevershark at 10:46 AM on December 28, 2006
Metafilter: Frankly I get bored by my own opinions sometimes.
Or, maybe, the exact opposite.
posted by Football Bat at 10:56 AM on December 28, 2006
Or, maybe, the exact opposite.
posted by Football Bat at 10:56 AM on December 28, 2006
Karate chop to the head. QEmotherfuckingD.
[link to pic of weird guy jonmc knows]
posted by cortex at 11:00 AM on December 28, 2006
[link to pic of weird guy jonmc knows]
posted by cortex at 11:00 AM on December 28, 2006
This thread is useless without pictures.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:09 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:09 AM on December 28, 2006
Jonson's correction of my misreading didn't change my main objection, shit-for-brains. But at leat I'm superlative at something. Yay!
posted by dame at 11:34 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by dame at 11:34 AM on December 28, 2006
Oh, sure - like we really need pictures of termite penises.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:35 AM on December 28, 2006
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:35 AM on December 28, 2006
Your search - "termite penis" - did not match any documents.
Somehow, I'm not disappointed at this turn of events.
posted by clevershark at 11:42 AM on December 28, 2006
Somehow, I'm not disappointed at this turn of events.
posted by clevershark at 11:42 AM on December 28, 2006
i'll have you know that one go with me is enough to keep a lady reproducing for decades ... yes, not just once, or twice, but for decades
beat THAT, motherfuckers
posted by pyramid termite at 12:07 PM on December 28, 2006
beat THAT, motherfuckers
posted by pyramid termite at 12:07 PM on December 28, 2006
I fucked your mom so good she gave birth to herself.
posted by cortex at 12:24 PM on December 28, 2006
posted by cortex at 12:24 PM on December 28, 2006
Crap! Wrong thread.
How's that edit window coming along?
posted by timeistight at 1:40 PM on December 28, 2006
How's that edit window coming along?
posted by timeistight at 1:40 PM on December 28, 2006
What do you think is more likely: 1) World peace, as facilitated by a simultaneous orgy around the world or 2) A moment in MetaFilter time when someone, anyone isn't the dedicated strawman Republican/fascist/asshole that half the site beats on to make themselves feel better?
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:54 PM on December 28, 2006
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:54 PM on December 28, 2006
And BTW, I wish that one day we invented a way to bottle the cathartic release that occurs when said Republican/fascist/asshole is beat upon relentlessly by the MeFi mob. Cuz you know that kind of pleasure/anger has gotta be worth something.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:57 PM on December 28, 2006
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:57 PM on December 28, 2006
jonson gets a gold star for being the only person referencing my comment who has any reading comprehension.
So it's the next day, and I was reading through this thread thinking to myself 'well, isn't that amusing and ironic -- people are doing the very thing I bemoaned above', when I see that dios, who I was in a mood to defend and agree with, and in fact had, in principle at least, had also apparently missed what I'd said, and gotten stroppy and abusive.
eyeballkid and I hate you all.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:16 PM on December 28, 2006
So it's the next day, and I was reading through this thread thinking to myself 'well, isn't that amusing and ironic -- people are doing the very thing I bemoaned above', when I see that dios, who I was in a mood to defend and agree with, and in fact had, in principle at least, had also apparently missed what I'd said, and gotten stroppy and abusive.
eyeballkid and I hate you all.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:16 PM on December 28, 2006
Liar. eyeballkid loves me. My mommy told me so.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:30 PM on December 28, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:30 PM on December 28, 2006
Myself and others have argued before that killfiles=evil.
I know. I do not currently have an active killfile but in the past it has kept MeFi readable for me. Of course I actually think they are good for the site.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 4:37 PM on December 28, 2006
I know. I do not currently have an active killfile but in the past it has kept MeFi readable for me. Of course I actually think they are good for the site.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 4:37 PM on December 28, 2006
eyeballkid doesn't love me, but Meatbomb does, so it's cool.
posted by cgc373 at 5:41 PM on December 28, 2006
posted by cgc373 at 5:41 PM on December 28, 2006
Wow, we've gone from Hiroshima and keswick to Gerald Ford and dios. I feel like I'm in some sort of "Best of Worst of MetaFilter" mix CD.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:57 PM on December 28, 2006
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:57 PM on December 28, 2006
Myself and others have argued before that killfiles=evil.
But there is no compelling evidence of many or most (I say all) of the claims of evilness made in the referenced topic, and elsewhere on this site. In any case, one of those evil killfiler widgets is going to be promoted to version 1.2 in the next day or two -- just in time to celebrate its first birthday -- with several bugfixes and optimizations.
This has been a public [dis]service announcement by an Evil Overlord. Minor Evil Overlord, assuredly, but I take what I can get.
posted by mdevore at 6:24 PM on December 28, 2006
But there is no compelling evidence of many or most (I say all) of the claims of evilness made in the referenced topic, and elsewhere on this site. In any case, one of those evil killfiler widgets is going to be promoted to version 1.2 in the next day or two -- just in time to celebrate its first birthday -- with several bugfixes and optimizations.
This has been a public [dis]service announcement by an Evil Overlord. Minor Evil Overlord, assuredly, but I take what I can get.
posted by mdevore at 6:24 PM on December 28, 2006
But there is no compelling evidence of many or most (I say all) of the claims of evilness made in the referenced topic, and elsewhere on this site.
This is, of course, a matter of opinion. But as I said, each to their own.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:31 PM on December 28, 2006
This is, of course, a matter of opinion. But as I said, each to their own.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:31 PM on December 28, 2006
What, there was feces flinging, and I wasn't invited?
Cheeky monkeys!
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:11 PM on December 28, 2006
Cheeky monkeys!
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:11 PM on December 28, 2006
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posted by Mayor Curley at 10:26 AM on December 27, 2006