FREE 59675 March 22, 2007 10:50 PM   Subscribe

"Comments about comments about comments about comments about... about the post belong in MetaTalk." [MI]
posted by grapefruitmoon to Etiquette/Policy at 10:50 PM (44 comments total)

I'll be the first to say I think that the framing of this post left a lot to be desired. It would have been nice if it were mentioned in the wording of said post that Eric Volz is imprisoned in Nicarauga, not the US, so that those of us who are reading-all-the-links-first challenged had more background. That would have been a start.

What rubbed me the wrong way about this post is not that it was posted, it's a worthy news story in and of itself, but rather the "Get the message out there, guyz!" tone in which it was posted. It really had a... well, FREE MUMIA! vibe to it, which just doesn't fly in the Blue.

Anyhow, I'd also like to apologize for the snark-bomb I dropped in-thread. I had just come home from working with a broken espresso machine in a coffeehouse sand in my vagina.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 10:50 PM on March 22, 2007


The people most vocal about whining about the thread could have done so here. A better post could have been crafted from the subject matter. These observations are not mutually exclusive.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:56 PM on March 22, 2007 [1 favorite]


Weird, I read the post here before and had a ton of sympathy for the guy before I saw that it was posted on mefi.

Josh Spear did it up right (except for the part about how friending the guy in myspace would amount to anything... as if)
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:10 PM on March 22, 2007


This, I believe, is the first time a MeFite posted something that made me want to kick him/her in the head.
posted by Kickstart70 at 11:14 PM on March 22, 2007 [1 favorite]


i don't get it. caddis totally hijacked that thread. some other people decided to back him up with "who-gives-a-fuck-about-this-story" type arguments. the post is neither "advertising" anything, nor does it address anything i would remotely consider along the lines of "divisive issue advocacy".
posted by phaedon at 11:19 PM on March 22, 2007


I retract some of my crankiness. The phrase "This needs as much media attention as possible" irks me too. Goodnight.
posted by phaedon at 11:28 PM on March 22, 2007


"This needs as much media attention as possible" is not the way to stir the passions of MeFites in support of your cause, no matter—actually, in spite of—it's nobility (perceived or implied).
posted by blasdelf at 12:16 AM on March 23, 2007


Yeah, caddis was a fucking cunt in that thread. Can't really do anything about it now, but if it makes you feel better to hear caddis called a fucking cunt, I'm here for you.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 12:59 AM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


Okay, everyone, I completely agree: I did a very poor job wording the post. Originally I had mentioned he was from Nicaragua, but then I read what I had written and it was muddy, so I rearranged some of my words and in the process I somehow accidentally left out that fact. And at the time, I had the beginning of a migraine and my mind was too fuzzy to catch it.

And the phrase, "This needs as much media attention as possible," was also poorly worded, but I included it in the post not to incite support and passion, but because I was surprised that I hadn't heard anything about this on the news. It seemed like a big enough story that I would have heard of it. I didn't mean to turn the post into a pledge drive. ;-)
posted by premiumpolar at 1:11 AM on March 23, 2007


Why is that post any different than this one?
posted by ryoshu at 2:36 AM on March 23, 2007


Can we at least agree that to be called 'advertising' a post has to be trying to sell something, as in, for money? That one wasn't.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:13 AM on March 23, 2007


Is this the queue for the Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America School of Charm?
posted by peacay at 3:32 AM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


seriously, can we all just get over the fact that caddis is a fucking cunt?
posted by quonsar at 4:30 AM on March 23, 2007 [2 favorites]


With enough professional help, we probably can piece our lives back together, yes.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:42 AM on March 23, 2007


A fucking cunt is better than one that isn't. At least it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. So I assume you are applauding caddis for doing exactly what God in Heaven made him to do, right?

It's so nice to have people give positive reinforcement to others here on Metatalk for a change. Thank you.
posted by Dave Faris at 5:12 AM on March 23, 2007


Wait, so some guy may or may not be rotting in prison for something he did not do and we're sitting here weighing whether this was worth troubling us about? FUCKING FUCK FUCK FUCK. Spend some of that free time putting together sparklines or a Flash infographics app to indicate when the suffering of another human being is interesting enough to merit bugging you about and how much time we can expect to get out of your ADD-fractured attention. This is information I need to know. I want to see.
posted by yerfatma at 5:13 AM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


The post is annoying, persistent criticisms of it should be brought to MeTa. Or, what BP said.
posted by OmieWise at 5:52 AM on March 23, 2007


I don't get it either. That's practically the textbook example of a hijack-slash-thread-shit right there. What is there to argue about? If the post is bad remove it; if it's not axe the noise comments.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:09 AM on March 23, 2007


Um, yerfatma, you do realize that your comment is entirely self-contradictory, right? I agree that caddis is a dick, and that Volz's situation sucks big-time, but spending your free time on a bulletin board telling other people that they shouldn't use their free time to say stuff on a bulletin board is kinda nonsensical.
posted by Bugbread at 6:09 AM on March 23, 2007


I've gotta come here; Crash Davis already made the snark I was gonna in that thread.
posted by klangklangston at 6:35 AM on March 23, 2007


*wipes klang's come from chin, looks up, smiles*
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 6:38 AM on March 23, 2007


*regrets hitting post, feeling peppy today*
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 6:52 AM on March 23, 2007


Kickstart70 writes "I believe, is the first time a MeFite posted something that made me want to kick him/her in the head."

It would be an interesting experiment to frame jayder for some felony crime and then see whether that generated some empathy.

Kirth Gerson writes "Can we at least agree that to be called 'advertising' a post has to be trying to sell something, as in, for money? "

I disagree. Anti drug PSAs and campaign ads are just selling a lifestyle choice, no money involved but I don't think their is any doubt they are advertising.
posted by Mitheral at 7:40 AM on March 23, 2007


spending your free time on a bulletin board telling other people that they shouldn't use their free time to say stuff on a bulletin board is kinda nonsensical.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest what people should do with their time, more trying to gin up what little revulsion I have left for the idea a person unjustly sentenced to jail would need to have an interesting story before their plight was worthy of posting to the front page of a website.
posted by yerfatma at 9:27 AM on March 23, 2007


Ah, gotcha.
posted by Bugbread at 9:35 AM on March 23, 2007


Whatever happened to flags?
posted by owhydididoit at 9:55 AM on March 23, 2007


"Whatever happened to flags?"

Cortex burned out; it now takes him as long as 20 minutes to respond to any given threat.
posted by klangklangston at 10:03 AM on March 23, 2007


posted by Mitheral: Anti drug PSAs and campaign ads are just selling a lifestyle choice, no money involved but I don't think their is any doubt they are advertising.


I don't see any of those on MetaFilter. Do you?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:16 AM on March 23, 2007


it's a fine post, and it's especially disheartening to see somebody who's been here longer than any of us except jonmc being lectured by a bunch of assholes about what belongs here and what doesn't.

this kind of peanut gallery assholishness is what makes MetaFilter incresingly lamer. More popular and profitable, yes (thanks to AskMe anyway), and with more moderators, but at this point we might as well close down the Blue, if it has to be just target practice for a bunch of assholes who generally never made a half-decent post since they joined (which is, generally, quite recently).
posted by matteo at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter: target practice for a bunch of assholes

(I dunno if you were including me in the bunch of assholes, but camel-toe aside, I have made the occasional HALF-decent post in the past two years! But yeah, I'll admit I can be an asshole sometimes.)
posted by grapefruitmoon at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2007


Fuck, am I getting tired of people cluttering MeTa with shit apologies for cluttering MeFi with shit comments.
Save yourselves the trouble and shut up.

at this point we might as well close down the Blue

Tad premature, that.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:14 AM on March 23, 2007


"...the idea a person unjustly sentenced to jail would need to have an interesting story before their plight was worthy of posting to the front page of a website."

Oh, please. This is a stupid argument and the ostentatious virtue on display here by some is sickening. Some things are good posts, most things aren't. Something being "important" and "a just cause" is such a wildly inclusive category that were people to actually begin posting only on that basis, it would utterly swamp the site and also be fucking tiresome. Not unlike how matteo's constant moral posturing is fucking tiresome. This post can be defended on a variety of basis, but merely that it's important? No.

This vilification of those who objected to the post as if they were cretinous morally-bankrupt people who are callous about the plight of an innocent man is absolutely fucking juvenile. It's melodramatic and dishonest.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:33 AM on March 23, 2007


"it's a fine post, and it's especially disheartening to see somebody who's been here longer than any of us except jonmc being lectured by a bunch of assholes about what belongs here and what doesn't.

this kind of peanut gallery assholishness is what makes MetaFilter incresingly lamer. More popular and profitable, yes (thanks to AskMe anyway), and with more moderators, but at this point we might as well close down the Blue, if it has to be just target practice for a bunch of assholes who generally never made a half-decent post since they joined (which is, generally, quite recently)."

You know, when you used to make those really nice posts, it was easier to ignore the fact that you're a massive asshole.
posted by klangklangston at 12:20 PM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's a shame when a potentially good post isn't written or presented well because the hordes descend with GYOFB snark, when there's always the chance that better links might be be posted later to rescue it, as happened with this thread. If the first thought on people's minds was "hmmm, can this thread be saved?" as opposed to "what a cock-up, what hilarious one-liner can I offload from my bottomless repository of wit now?" it couldn't be anything but an improvement. And really, there is enough fairly marginal stuff floating in the pool right now that focusing on this particular post, which is actually of some humane interest, is inexplicable to me.

Oh, and you know this but I am awfully fond of you, matteo, you superlative front-page posting prickly mensch, you.
posted by melissa may at 12:59 PM on March 23, 2007


this kind of peanut gallery assholishness is what makes MetaFilter incresingly lamer

I agree, the mob mentality really can bring the site down, as it did here.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:12 PM on March 23, 2007


EB nailed it, as he usually does when the topic is the quality and evaluation of what makes a good post on MeFi.
posted by dios at 2:11 PM on March 23, 2007


This vilification of those who objected to the post as if they were cretinous morally-bankrupt people who are callous about the plight of an innocent man is absolutely fucking juvenile. It's melodramatic and dishonest.

I don't know that I agree with you that some of the snarkers are described as "cretinous, morally bankrupt people," as I can't find that description anywhere in this thread except in your comment, but many were certainly quite callous, unapologetically so, about the plight of an innocent man. There's nothing dishonest in calling that display exactly what it is.

In any case, the debate of whether it was a good or bad post, right or wrong, is a derail that many longtime users of Metafilter know does not belong in the original thread.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:16 PM on March 23, 2007


"...but many were certainly quite callous, unapologetically so, about the plight of an innocent man."

I recall only one person whose comment might be characterized this way and it's clearly a misunderstanding that resulted from a carelessly written comment. The commenter's point was that there are a great many innocent people in prison, here and elsewhere, and it is in some ways ignorant and unhelpful to make a very big deal about a specific case as if it were unusual. This is the same argument used about child abductions, and it's a reasonably solid argument. In the child abduction case, aside from the general complaint of cherry-picking out of something that is better understood as a generalized social problem, the biggest gripe is that the cherry-picking is racist. And it is.

Arguably, the same reasoning applies in the case of this post. Eric Volz is a white guy who isn't going to be executed. Meanwhile, there's probably at least dozens of innocent black men on death row in the US. Where are the important and "getting the message out" posts for each of them?

It's disingenuous to seriously claim that anyone here would truly be callous and disregarding about the plight of an innocent man imprisoned. That anyone would easily assume such a thing about another person while simultaneously cloaking themselves in their supposed moral and empathic superiority is a joke.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:30 PM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's disingenuous to seriously claim that anyone here would truly be callous and disregarding about the plight of an innocent man imprisoned.

Here are a few comments as examples of such behavior: [1] [2] [3]. I agree with others that such behavior is not becoming of rational adults, given the subject matter.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:07 PM on March 23, 2007


EB, I think you're wrong on this. I agree that the post doesn't belong on MeFi (at least, as it's written). I agree that there are far worse cases. I agree that the people poo-pooing the post probably aren't cretinous or morally bankrupt. But the particular comments made were callous. I don't think it reflects some sort of callousness of the commenters; I suspect they were just being hyperbolic, but "they probably don't mean to be callous" does not logically lead to "thus, they were not callous". In this case, it's more along the lines of "they probably don't mean to be callous, but what they said was".
posted by Bugbread at 5:23 PM on March 23, 2007


Sorry Alex, advertising refers to the phrase, "This needs as much media attention as possible," not the content. The story itself is fine for mefi. Calling for wide publication of this injustice is smacks of proselytizing. However, premiumpolar has already explained that he meant something else and I take him at his word. Let it go.
posted by caddis at 7:20 PM on March 23, 2007


I agree with others that such behavior is not becoming of rational adults, given the subject matter.

Becoming or not, I defend my opinion that I would much rather see someone campaigning for better representation and fairer trials and due process in ALL cases rather than cherry picking ONE case and saying "FREE THAT DUDE." Because then what? Honestly, I don't see how caring about the WHOLE ISSUE rather than focusing energies on one case at a time makes me callous or irrational.

Yes, this case sucks big time, but I don't see why instead of focusing energy on one guy, the case couldn't be used to draw attention to the larger issue of legal fuckery.

If you don't find caring about the larger issue at stake beyond the context of this one dude to be "becoming" of an adult, well fine then. I'll just be here at the kids' table with my "FREE EVERYONE" sign.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:17 PM on March 23, 2007


Whoa, lots of c-word being thrown around here. I'm old school enough to flinch at the casual use of that word. (Not convinced this one has been reclaimed or redefined or whatever.)
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 4:08 AM on March 24, 2007


grapefruitmoon writes "Yes, this case sucks big time, but I don't see why instead of focusing energy on one guy, the case couldn't be used to draw attention to the larger issue of legal fuckery. "

Isn't that usually how attention gets drawn to larger issues, though? By the publicisation of some individual case?
posted by Bugbread at 8:14 AM on March 24, 2007


« Older The Web 2.0, it vibrates?   |   Blue-icide Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments