"This is Operation Daisy-Bird: Welcome to Paedogeddon!" April 9, 2007 6:27 PM   Subscribe

I would like to welcome two of our newest members, Chris Hansen of "Dateline NBC" and Helen Lovejoy of Springfield, USA.
posted by Mayor Curley to MetaFilter-Related at 6:27 PM (110 comments total)

Heh.
posted by tristeza at 6:30 PM on April 9, 2007


Little Known FAKT: 95% of adult men are pedophiles. There are no documented cases of female pedophiles.
posted by DU at 6:41 PM on April 9, 2007


posted by DU Little Known FAKT: 95% of adult men are pedophiles. There are no documented cases of female pedophiles.

The remaining 5% of pedophiles are hermaphrodites.
posted by fandango_matt at 6:44 PM on April 9, 2007


Read the sentence again, fandango_matt.
posted by Aloysius Bear at 6:50 PM on April 9, 2007


Mayor Curley, what would you like to get out of this thread? That some people shouldn't ask about the subjects local news does on kids?

As a parent, as weird as the original question asker sounds, those same thoughts went through my head when my daughter was first born. I think everyone understands it's not entirely rational to be freaked out by it but it does happen and it does ruin lives of people involved and there are steps you can take to teach your children how to tell you if anything weird happened.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:53 PM on April 9, 2007


Intresting thread. It's amazing how pervasive this fear is in people. Oh well.
posted by delmoi at 6:58 PM on April 9, 2007


Maybe Chris Morris is behind this.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:01 PM on April 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


you know, i sent a private email about this thread because I think it's a really bad idea for a metatalk callout.

but since mathowie seems to be in support of the question (seeing as it's still up as I hit post), let me paraphrase a little of what I said:

the question, and this is the tamest complaint about the thread I can muster, is chatfilter at best. there is no problem to be solved by asking "have you ever met a pedophile who was a nice guy?" it's like an extremely alarmist version of "have you ever seen a cat that was orange?" if she had asked for advice or resources that would help her protect her kid, I'd be happy as hell to see that she was taking sensible steps to do so. but all she asked was for a collection of hysterical alarmist validations like "yeah, that's their game." or "it's always the nice ones." what is the problem being solved with that shit? this woman is obviously afraid, and understandably so, but neither she nor the site are helped by encouraging that discussion. since it's also a guidelines violation, I can't imagine a single reason for that thing to be left up. if you want, give her back her question and let her ask again, but this time in some way that isn't just paranoid hysteria and would actually help her in some way.
posted by shmegegge at 7:01 PM on April 9, 2007 [12 favorites]


Recently had someone in my circle (not close but still knew him) arrested with several hundred counts of child porn in his possession.

Several hundred counts of child porn in his possession. Is that better or worse than having possession of actual child porn?
posted by puke & cry at 7:02 PM on April 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


This will not wendell. or end well. but it may fall down a well. and good riddance.
posted by jonmc at 7:03 PM on April 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


Damn it, I actually clicked on Chris Hansen, expecting to see a profile page.

It's good to see that the answers aren't all "ZOMG Stranger Danger!".

delmoi: It's amazing how pervasive this fear is in people.

Not all that shocking, if you consider how popular that 'To Catch A Predator' show is. Which is just making ad money off of internet-enabled Stranger Danger fear...
posted by CKmtl at 7:11 PM on April 9, 2007


Yet another completely pointless MeTa thread. Matt, y'all should start deleting these so they don't stay on the front page and set a crappy example.
posted by mediareport at 7:13 PM on April 9, 2007


posted by delmoi your kid is much more likely to be struck by lightning then[sic] be molested by a stranger.

Do you have a cite for this?
posted by fandango_matt at 7:15 PM on April 9, 2007


I think everyone understands it's not entirely rational to be freaked out by it

I don't. In fact, the message being sent out by the mass media is almost uniformly that it is only rational to be freaked out about pedophiles and kidnappers, that it's totally reasonable to be suspicious of all men (but not women) who might be near your child for any reason, to not allow your kids to walk or bike to school, etc. What's worse, if you try to point out the extreme rarity of molestation or kidnapping by strangers (especially as compared to, say, by family members), you're objective pro-pedophile and obviously couldn't possibly understand that they're just not going to take any chances with their kids (except for the chances of soccer injuries, type II diabetes or narcissism.)

This is all kind of beside the point, admittedly. What I mean to get at is that a) most people don't get that it's irrational, and b) don't care.
posted by aaronetc at 7:15 PM on April 9, 2007 [4 favorites]


i remember when my daughter was born, how i used to suspiciously eye everyone in the grocery store who came near our cart as we shopped, i had this irrational fear that one of them was about to whip out a knife and stab my precious little child for no reason. i think we're wired for paranoia as new parents, and thank goodness it soon passes. i don't remember worrying one whit about molestation all those years ago. they're much more likely to be harmed by automobiles or sticking things into the electric outlets or tasting the drano. soon you realize that worrying all the time just makes you crazy.
posted by quonsar at 7:17 PM on April 9, 2007 [2 favorites]


This is a good callout if only to see what gets MC's knickers in a twist.

Next play date, your paranoia would be better channeled into asking about guns in the house than whether Dad rubs one out in front of Noggin.
posted by docpops at 7:20 PM on April 9, 2007 [3 favorites]


Do you have a cite for this?

The proof is rather shocking.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:25 PM on April 9, 2007


Seal 'em in lucite, it's the only way to be sure.


What quonsar said.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:34 PM on April 9, 2007


Well, shmegegge's pretty much nailed my thoughts on this— it's alarmist chatfilter and should be axed.
posted by klangklangston at 7:52 PM on April 9, 2007


What quonsar said again.
posted by Wolof at 7:55 PM on April 9, 2007


I'm with shmegegge (and I flagged it, too): as it's phrased, it's just chatfilter at it's ultra-ickiest ("tell me about friendly pedophiles you've known!"). I mean, what real purpose does it serve? If even one person answers yes, indeed, they've known pedophiles that seemed nice, it just feeds the OP's worst fears: that she can trust no one with her child. If everyone were to answer no (which of course hasn't happened), it would feed the unrealistic assumption that pedophiles are monsters, easily and always distinguishable from the rest of us.

None of this is to deny or downplay the off-the-scale sense of protectiveness that parents (especially new parents) feel for their children (I have it, at least at at the doting-aunt-level, for my nephews). But as it presently stands this is a terrible question -- the very terms of which are irrational -- that doesn't in fact get to the real matters at hand regarding the best ways to protect children from sexual abuse.
posted by scody at 8:02 PM on April 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


As I told shmegegge over email, the first half "have you ever known a pedophile?" is chatfiltery but the second part is about being a new mother and wondering what the warning signs are and how is most likely to do it and people are answering it well, letting the poster know that it's an outside chance and niceness has nothing to do with it.

The question is potentially bad because it's anchored in the hysteria of modern news/entertainment but I think the answers are almost all good ones and this metatalk thread post reads like we're supposed to use this to mock them which I think is flat out wrong.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:03 PM on April 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


Mayor Curley, what would you like to get out of this thread?

In all honesty, I'm embarrassed to see a forum I frequent being used for the earnest discussion of media-created suburban white angst. If you let this pass (and I think it's ridiculously more chatty than you generally allow anyway), people should be asking opened ended questions about terror plots at middle-american shopping malls and the criminality of high gas prices.

It's, like, your site and stuff. And I'm very glad to have it generally. Just not when I see stuff like that. So I guess I was hoping to get a lot of people expressing similar sentiments so you'd be convinced to kill questions of that nature.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:03 PM on April 9, 2007 [3 favorites]


Odds of being struck by lightening in your lifetime: 1/5000 Cite

In 2004, 11.9 children per 1000 were raped. Cite
posted by Loto at 8:04 PM on April 9, 2007


Oh, and based on my second cite, the mother is more likely to abuse their children than the father. Funny, that.
posted by Loto at 8:06 PM on April 9, 2007


I'm embarrassed to see a forum I frequent being used for the earnest discussion of media-created suburban white angst

Doesn't sound like media-created suburban white angst to me. Sounds more like a new parent who's justifiably shit-scared and panicky about the crappy world we live in.
posted by YamwotIam at 8:08 PM on April 9, 2007


When I was a kid (up until late high school), I was in constant fear of being left alone with adults lest they molest me. This meant the ride home from the state forensics tournament was a ball of nerves as I just waited for the couch to try to take my "innocence."
posted by drezdn at 8:14 PM on April 9, 2007


Loto: In 2004, 11.9 children per 1000 were raped. Cite

Do they define 'rape' as 'sexually abused by an adult stranger'? Familial sexual abuse, or rape-by-peers could muck up that stat.

Oh, and based on my second cite, the mother is more likely to abuse their children than the father. Funny, that.

If they're including physical abuse and neglect, not very surprising.

Cited pdf = 180+ pages ... tl;dr. So all that may have been covered in there.
posted by CKmtl at 8:14 PM on April 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


The warning signs are that they don't show up in mirrors, that they can't stand garlic, that they're afraid of crosses, and that they're molesting your child.

Oh, wait, the first three are vampires. Sorry, this is one of those things that can only be handled by talking to your kids and maintaining a decent level of communication. And even then you might not be able to prevent it.
posted by klangklangston at 8:20 PM on April 9, 2007 [2 favorites]


Loto: You've misinterpreted that second statistic. According to that, there were 11.9 reports of maltreatment per 1000 children. For 64% of those reports, the maltreatment was neglect (p. 24). 9.7% of those reports were regarding sexual abuse - 1.2 per 1000 children.

Of course, rape is sexual abuse, but sexual abuse is not necessarily rape. The study defines sexual abuse as "a type of maltreatment that refers to the involvement of the child in sexual activity to provide sexual
gratification or financial benefit to the perpetrator, including contacts for sexual purposes, molestation, statutory rape,
prostitution, pornography,exposure, incest, or other sexually exploitative activities" (p.140).

Finally, a plurality of the sexual abuse cases were in the 12+ age group. (p. 48; it's not a majority because a significant proportion were of unreported age.) At least some of those sexual abuse victims will have been "abused" consensually by their friends.

(What any of that has to do with the odds of being struck by lightning is beyond me. Lightning strikes people rarely, and generally only strikes the same person once. That's why it's usually an example of an extremely rare event. Of course it's more likely to experience sexual abuse as a child than get struck by lightning.)

(On preview: The abuse from the mother that's most common is neglect.)
posted by mendel at 8:23 PM on April 9, 2007


Blazecock Pileon: "Maybe Chris Morris is behind this."

Check out the title of the page. It's always the first thing I think of when the subject of pedophilia comes up.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:26 PM on April 9, 2007


mendel: Of course it's more likely to experience sexual abuse as a child than get struck by lightning.

Well, sure. But, but the original comparison was "more likely to be struck by lightning than be abused by a stranger".

Is it broken down by 'family / friend', 'acquaintance', and 'stranger' in the pdf?
posted by CKmtl at 8:30 PM on April 9, 2007


the crappy world we live in,
the world is no more or less crappy then it has been for a long time... wait I take it back, children, right now, are better off then they have been for a long long time. They are perceived as real human being, distinct from adults, it is an actual crime to do them harm, or to put them to work too early and so on. So, the crappy world has been taking better care of children nowadays then anytime in recorded western history
There IS an overabundance of fear because the cases that ARE out there garner so much attention they represent more than they are, there are scant few stories of... "Nope, no children harmed here today, everything peaceful". It's the same bullshit tactics that get used in recording history, we hear so much about war we assume it is the natural state, when non-war occupies so much more of the mundane everyday life that people just don't write about it, it must not happen.
Crime MUST be running rampant right? Else we wouldn't hear so much about it.
posted by edgeways at 8:31 PM on April 9, 2007 [5 favorites]


Check out the title of the page

OMG. Apologies. Have some cake on me.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:35 PM on April 9, 2007


I mean, what real purpose does it serve?

It serves to act as a giant circle-jerk for new parents' irrational, unreasonable fears. Just throw the kid in a closet with an unlimited supply of sanitizing gel and green vegetables until they're 18. That'll keep 'em safe.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:40 PM on April 9, 2007


So, the crappy world has been taking better care of children nowadays then anytime in recorded western history

"Better" doesn't mean "good."
posted by YamwotIam at 8:46 PM on April 9, 2007


Um, I don't think it's highly unlikely, and I don't think it's unreasonable to worry about it. For example:

The National Resource Council estimates the percent of the U.S. population which has been sexually abused to range from a low of 20-24 percent to a high of 54-62 percent of the population; the higher estimate includes sexualized exposure without touching, such as masturbating in front of the child.1 The largest retrospective study on the prevalence of child sexual abuse found 27 percent of women and 16 percent of men reported abuse.
From here.

So between 1/4 to 1/2 of children will experience sexual abuse. To not take preventative action seems pretty risky. No, I'm not suggesting we automatically hate all men. That would be ridiculous.
posted by b33j at 8:49 PM on April 9, 2007


Mendel, thanks for that, the 1 in 100 statistic seemed sensationalist.

I agree the thread seems like a bad idea, but even if there were 99 calming messages and one alarmist one, the parent is going to focus on the one and dismiss the 99, in all likelihood. It's just in the nature of new parents.
posted by maxwelton at 8:52 PM on April 9, 2007


20-24 percent to a high of 54-62 percent

Anecdotal evidence: I never had a traumatic sexual experience as a child. (So walking in on dad rubbing one out or mom changing the batteries on her little helper are trauma? That's just...sad.)

I was doing a bit of poking around for stats and have to go wash my eyes out with gasoline having found some uber-xtian weirdo site which jumped through all sorts of hoops to prove that (safe, legal) abortion kills more women than car accidents. Lies, damn lies, and stats.
posted by maxwelton at 8:58 PM on April 9, 2007


What is it with people posting ambigious call-outs in MeTa with absolutely no immediate followup.
It's like there's been a bad case of, "Yea, I'm calling this out because it's teh sux0rs! Only I'm not telling you why I'm calling it out!" going around here.
posted by jmd82 at 9:04 PM on April 9, 2007


I just waited for the couch to try to take my "innocence."

YM "loveseat." HTH.
posted by dersins at 9:07 PM on April 9, 2007


My god, what would the recliner do if the couch would do that?!
posted by IndigoRain at 9:17 PM on April 9, 2007


So between 1/4 to 1/2 of children will experience sexual abuse.

This is such unmitigated horseshit.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:18 PM on April 9, 2007


20-24 percent to a high of 54-62 percent

I don't have the exact figures handy, but I think the stats on the prevalence of witchcraft in 17th c. Salem were strikingly similar.

normally I just read this debates for the comedy, but this is anvawful awful awful non-question, and it's embarrassing for it to be on the site.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:21 PM on April 9, 2007


wow awful spelling by me. but you get the idea.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:22 PM on April 9, 2007


Okay, you don't like those numbers? How about Wikipedia?

Goldman (2000) notes that "the absolute number of children being sexually abused each year has been almost impossible to ascertain" and that "there does not seem to be agreement on the rate of children being sexually abused". A meta-analytic study by Rind, Tromovitch, and Bauserman (1998) found that reported prevalence of abuse for males ranged from 3% to 37%, and for females from 8% to 71% with mean rates of 17% and 28% respectively. Significant underreporting of sexual abuse of boys by both women and men is believed to occur due gender steoreotyping, social denial and minimization of male victimization, and the relative lack of research on sexual abuse of boys.[8] Sexual victimization of boys by their mothers or other female relatives is especially rarely researched or reported.[9] Sexual abuse of girls by their mothers, and other related and/or unrelated adult females is beginning to be researched and reported despite the highly taboo nature of female-female child sex abuse.[10] A study by Fromuth and Burkhart (1987) found that depending upon the definition of CSA used, prevalence among men varied from 4% to 24%.

Perhaps it's more often than you think it is.
posted by b33j at 9:40 PM on April 9, 2007


Is it broken down by 'family / friend', 'acquaintance', and 'stranger' in the pdf?

It is (to a few dozen categories, in fact, but I don't have it open anymore), but it's not broken down by the relationship with the abuser and the type of abuse together, aside from some analysis of the strongest connections, which is where the mothers/neglect comparison came from.
posted by mendel at 9:46 PM on April 9, 2007


Next play date, your paranoia would be better channeled into asking about guns in the house than whether Dad rubs one out in front of Noggin.

Actually, you should be far more afraid of houses with swimming pools, but since guns are inherently scary and pools are seen as fun, people get the wrong impression.

At any rate, I chortled at this callout, but it's also a necessary thread. New parents worry. I just wish more experts (or at least, expert-wielding amateurs) would show up pointing out how absolutely, positively overhyped the fear of child molestation by strangers is. The world can be a dangerous place, but it's far safer than it's ever been.

I wish there was more trust nowadays, and less irrational fear, but what are you going to do.

People are going to continue fretting about the guy smiling at their daughter playing...as they talk on their cell phone while driving their car into a tree.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:54 PM on April 9, 2007


For those confused by the talk of Chris Morris, the entirety of the Paedogeddon episode of Brass Eye is available on youtube. 1 2 3

I actually think that episode is the worst of all the Brass Eye episodes. The original six-part series is brilliant through and through, and parts of the pedophilia special are brilliant too, but it's not at the same level of achievement.
posted by Kattullus at 10:17 PM on April 9, 2007


b33j, you are missing the point. Most sexual abuse is at the hands of family members or friends. No one here is denying that this is prevalent — perhaps much more prevalent than commonly thought. The point is that abuse by random strangers is not common, and that being wary of every unusual person around the preschool is perhaps a misallocation of resources.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 10:28 PM on April 9, 2007


Actually, you should be far more afraid of houses with swimming pools, but since guns are inherently scary and pools are seen as fun, people get the wrong impression.

Which cuts right to the heart of things, and I'm actually a little disappointed that that chapter of Freakonomics didn't take the question of outrage even further and juxtapose abuse-by-strangers with the guns and swimming pool numbers.

As far as the thread, it struck me at first glance as potential trouble, and sort of iffy, but I got distracted from the thread live-or-die question by a couple of pretty shitty comments that needed deleting more than the thread did.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:32 PM on April 9, 2007


b33j writes "A meta-analytic study by Rind, Tromovitch, and Bauserman (1998) found that reported prevalence of abuse for males ranged from 3% to 37%, and for females from 8% to 71% with mean rates of 17% and 28% respectively."

Well, shit. Those statistics are basically useless. (8% to 71%? Seriously, why not just 0% to 100%. It's gotta be somewhere in there...)

I agree with the Mayor, but I'm not a parent, and I'm willing to cut them some slack. I understand it's quite stressful.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:45 PM on April 9, 2007


b33j, those meta studies are forced to include teenage and statutory rape to get their numbers. In point of fact, raping a fourteen year old is an abominable act, but it's not really child molestation in the manner that frightens new parents or is currently being sensationalized. This ought to be obvious, but it bears repeating: the risk of rape increases after puberty because of the development of secondary sex characteristics, like breasts and pubic hair.

The risk group in question is best defined as pre-pubescent. This group is most at risk in the developing world, where the rise of human trafficking, bonded labor, and lax enforcement will more often find them put to work as prostitutes. Even there it is probably overemphasized, because of mistaken age evaluations of malnourished teenagers, especially Asians.

But something tells me that, "Have you ever known a nice guy who visited Bangkok child prostitutes? Oh, by the way, what can I do about sex trafficking?" would be deleted as chatfilter.(PS- The answer is to legalize prostitution and encourage collective bargaining: hookers with unions have an economic incentive to drive out the pimps and the scabs.)
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:53 PM on April 9, 2007


b33j, you are missing the point... No-one here is denying that this is prevalent...
posted by IshmaelGraves at 10:28 PM on April 9

So between 1/4 to 1/2 of children will experience sexual abuse.
This is such unmitigated horseshit.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:18 PM on April 9

Maybe I missed the point of the call out - though I don't see how the original MeFi poster was ruling out relatives by the use of the term "nice man", but I think a lot of the upset has been about parents bothering about this because it's unlikely to happen, and let's stop maligning all men.

On the other hand, I'm emotionally affected by this topic. My mother, my daughter and I were all sexually abused - my mother by a family friend, and my daughter and I by family members.

You would have thought that I would have protected my little girl better, but I listened to the people who told me that I was ridiculous to distrust all men, that my background was no excuse to do so, that it was an insult to family members to behave in such a way.
posted by b33j at 10:56 PM on April 9, 2007


Er... It is ridiculous to distrust all men, even if bad things sometimes happen.
posted by Justinian at 11:02 PM on April 9, 2007


b33j, you conveniently cut off the quote from my comment right before I pointed out the difference between abuse by family members (frighteningly common, and deserving of more attention than it gets) and abuse by strangers (much less common, and given attention far out of proportion to its prevalence).

You'll sure as fuck never hear me telling anyone he or she should trust family members. In fact, I despise the sort of ooh-scary-strangers nonsense which is being discussed here precisely because it's a mechanism by which people convince themselves that it's only creepy freaks and weirdos, not people like themselves, and certainly not their own family members, who rape kids. If people would get over their media-driven fear of the other and their infantile loyalty to family for family's sake, maybe we could fucking arrest some people once in a fucking while.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 11:20 PM on April 9, 2007


Ishmael,

I don't actually have a problem with your point of view. I was trying to explain to you why I was quoting figures and it had to with someone saying that my early quote was horseshit. Here and in the thread I have certainly not said that stranger danger is the problem. I regret that I wasn't as clear as I should have been. My apologies.

My issues and has been throughout this topic has been people who think sexual abuse (whoever the perpetrator) isn't a problem, that the numbers are so miniscule as to present very little risk, and also to be ridiculously skewed by horny 14 yo girls out there to Lolita their neighbours.
posted by b33j at 11:24 PM on April 9, 2007


b33j, sounds like we pretty much agree. You're right that my statement that "no one here is denying that this is prevalent" was wrong. I hope you don't take my somewhat worked-up tone as directed at you personally — it wasn't intended to be.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 11:38 PM on April 9, 2007


So between 1/4 to 1/2 of children will experience sexual abuse. To not take preventative action seems pretty risky.

Actually, if those odds were true, taking action would be pointless. You might as well treat it like chicken pox and get it over with. Once you're abused, you're abused, right?
posted by cillit bang at 2:20 AM on April 10, 2007


You might as well treat it like chicken pox and get it over with.

yeah! and we could legislate employer-paid pediatric healthcare for thier partners!
posted by quonsar at 4:22 AM on April 10, 2007


It's never difficult to discern the parents from the children in these threads.

Parents: I am weary! I have worries!

Children: Up your wretched assholes with an Ikea Allen wrench, Mum and Dad! I'm with Mayor Curley! I didn't ask to be born!
posted by Wolof at 4:44 AM on April 10, 2007


I'm embarrassed to see a forum I frequent being used for the earnest discussion of media-created suburban white angst

after a few years, i've gotten used to it

So between 1/4 to 1/2 of children will experience sexual abuse.

that's nothing ... statistics show that 100% of children eventually die
posted by pyramid termite at 5:20 AM on April 10, 2007


It would be easier and far more effective to imprison the children rather than waste all this energy over child predators. I'd like to see a politician take the bold step of building a 1000% secure prison for children that closely monitored and tightly regulated their every action and thought. After six months new parents would drop off their child, be handed a video ipod, and then wheel away completely confident that their child is safe. The children are safe, the parents feel secure and the child predators are totally out of luck. It's a win-win-win for everybody.
posted by nixerman at 5:42 AM on April 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


What if the prison warden has a long, curly mustache that he tweaks while laughing menacingly? He could be one of those evil types.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:20 AM on April 10, 2007


Absolutely. A place like that would draw pedophiles from across the galaxy - even better in their eyes than Boy Scouts or school sports.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:32 AM on April 10, 2007


Well, this thread has gotten a little confused when debating numbers, since fandango_matt asked me to prove my assertion about stranger molestation and lightning.

According to this, about 73 people die from lightning strikes and 300 are injured. But what about strikes without injury? According to This "About 200 to 300 children are kidnapped in the classic sense each year" (but this only refers to children, not all people like the lightning number). I also don't know the number of kids who are molested by strangers but not kidnapped. I don't really want to Google around for more info at work though.

Obviously the original asker was interested in all forms of molestation.
posted by delmoi at 7:06 AM on April 10, 2007


Obviously the original asker was interested in all forms of molestation.

So are all men, which is why I have stressed to my precious little one that she is to stab any man in the eye with her school compass if he should approach her.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:27 AM on April 10, 2007


The hysteria over this is huge. On another board, a woman stated that her daughter had been molested - because a man had videotaped her at the beach. That's it. Nothing else.

Now, that's creepy as all hell, and yes, I'm glad they managed to get him removed from the beach. But in no way, shape, or form, was that molestation. And it almost offends me that someone would call it that. I can totally understand the fear, but letting it consume you is not the answer.
posted by agregoli at 7:30 AM on April 10, 2007 [3 favorites]


Hey that isn't really about Chris Hansen at all! Lemme go get my beans.
posted by Mister_A at 7:34 AM on April 10, 2007


I knew a nice pedophile as a kid. He's the only person I've ever known whose death I celebrated. I've lived the rest of my life with the aim of ending up in hell so I can get in on his torment. I'll be so good, they'll give me a full-time job.

Pedophiles are like terrorists in a way, as far as the old saw about living in fear equating to victory for the terrorists goes. It's true that some people do horrible things to children, and parents should take measures to protect children from these people. But many adults were sexually abused as children, and have grown up to function well in society, even to benefit society in protective ways with their stories or by taking jobs with children or by being more vigilant about these things in their children and others'. There are some adults who never recover, especially in the case of serial molestation, and there is some back-of-the-mind element that remains, even in the most well-adjusted survivors of childhood rape, that has its consequences.

But if the option is to shelter and confine and smother children with their best interests, to keep them from exploring and hiding and playing and lying and all those other things that shake out of kids as they grow, I'd say, do what you can, just as my parents did, to keep your kid safe, and do what you can to let your kid grow. Something might happen along the way, beyond your control, that impinges on that safety or growth, and your kid could grow up maladjusted because of it, but they will at least be trapped by fears of their own, not fears forced upon them by their parents. You end up walking a fine line between keeping children safe and not letting the specter of pedophilia win.

Maybe this belongs in that thread and not this one. Big deal.
posted by breezeway at 7:40 AM on April 10, 2007


Mayor Curley, why do you assume the angst is suburban and white? Or did you use those words because everything suburban and white is automatically worthy of disdain?
posted by rocket88 at 7:49 AM on April 10, 2007


Mayor Curley, why do you assume the angst is suburban and white? Or did you use those words because everything suburban and white is automatically worthy of disdain?

I'm white and suburban. And I might even be worthy of disdain. But white suburbanites are generally (not always) the people lacking in real concerns enough to be worried about the Pedophile Epidemic, satanic ritual abuse, Dungeons and Dragons suicides, and backmasking in music. That sort of stuff.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:21 AM on April 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


As I told shmegegge over email,

Yeah, sorry about that. I hadn't checked my email by the time I posted my summary here. If I had, I'd have ducked out of this one. I just figured that maybe this thread had become the place to discuss it. Sorry. As I said in the original email, I felt like it alarmed me enough to mention it, but it's your site and obviously a matter for your discretion.
posted by shmegegge at 8:34 AM on April 10, 2007


Mayor Curley, right on. Some of the people here do not remember the Satanic Panic of the early '80s; it ruined many lives and got my parents all in a huff about D&D to boot—probably to my benefit, that. People who have very real and present threats to their well-being do not have time to go chasing shadows like this.

Even so, I disdain you a little bit MC.
posted by Mister_A at 8:40 AM on April 10, 2007


I knew a nice pedophile as a kid.

Nice is different than good.
(It's an old saw, but one of my favorites.)
posted by Mister_A at 8:56 AM on April 10, 2007


Shut the fuck up, Mayor Curley; you have about as much right to express your embarrassment about this place being marred with 'inane' or 'empty' comments as I have to complain about people overusing semi-colons, typos, and shitty grammar.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:03 AM on April 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


(It's an old saw, but one of my favorites.)

This sentence cries out for misinterpretation, perhaps suggesting the speaker is a serial killer.
posted by cgc373 at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2007


Shut the fuck up, Mayor Curley; you have about as much right to express your embarrassment about this place being marred with 'inane' or 'empty' comments

I'll make sure to email my comments to you for your subjective approval before I post them.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:14 AM on April 10, 2007


Shut the fuck up, Mayor Curley; you have about as much right to express your embarrassment about this place being marred with 'inane' or 'empty' comments as I have to complain about people overusing semi-colons, typos, and shitty grammar.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:03 AM on April 10 [+]


The complaint was about a post, Turd-merchant, not comments. And the general consensus here seems to be one of broad agreement.
posted by docpops at 9:25 AM on April 10, 2007


...perhaps suggesting the speaker is a serial killer.

I am, but I only kill pedophiles and vegetarians (no real people).
posted by Mister_A at 9:26 AM on April 10, 2007


Also, I hate to post this without first checking with you, Alvy Ampersand, but your use of quotes around "inane" and "empty" suggests that I've used them to describe anything in this thread.

and yet the only time they appear in this thread is in your comment

So YOU shut the fuck up and stop making false attributions, before I fabricate a quote from Rosemary Brown wherein she calls you an asshole.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:27 AM on April 10, 2007


I'll make sure to email my comments to you for your subjective approval before I post them.

Too bad esereth didn't do you the same courtesy before tainting the Green with her silly bourgeouis fears.

You're even more obtuse than I thought.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:32 AM on April 10, 2007


Turd-merchant

Ha!

posted by cortex (staff) at 9:36 AM on April 10, 2007


You're even more obtuse than I thought.

As noted, you're reduced to fabricating quotes and/or opponent opinions, so nobody gives a shit what you think.

Unless you decide to wait a few comments and then make up a quote supporting you and hope no one notices.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:41 AM on April 10, 2007


So...

How much are turds going for these days?
posted by the other side at 10:10 AM on April 10, 2007


Paraphrase ≠ False attribution, putz. Nice use of the line breaks and the bold tag, though - I can totally feel your awesome wrath and indignation at my malicious twisting of your words.

The complaint was about a post, Turd-merchant, not comments.

Sorry I was too lazy to dig though MC's history to find a lame (According to my super-cool metric, naturally) AskMe post to throw back in his face... uh okay, here we go:
It's a fucking raccoon. They are oversized rats with creepy hands and masks.

My point was the guy talks a lot of shit. That he feels this AskMe is actively damaging a community where he spends a lot of time acting like a prick is hypocritical and irritating. I do like Mayor Peace, Love, and Unity, though.

And the general consensus here seems to be one of broad agreement.

And yet oddly, it's still up. Even if the Asker's fears are irrational, there are some good thoughtful responses in there that may help her get some peace of mind.

And Rosemary Brown knew I was an asshole, which is why I'll never be awarded an Order of Canada.
Fresh turds fer sale! Getcher turds here!

posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:11 AM on April 10, 2007 [3 favorites]


Mayor Curley, this callout is nonce-sense and you know it.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:23 AM on April 10, 2007


The accepted nomenclature is "summary quotes," Alvy. Paraphrasing doesn't get quote marks. (And summary quotes don't get any respect.)
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:28 AM on April 10, 2007


Last summer I cornered a bat that had been at large for minutes to hours in the upstairs where my kids had been asleep, so from where I sit any question about the disposition of potentially rabid and/or feral animals seems to me to be one of the more pure distillations of AskMe's utility.

As it turns out, my Infectious Disease attending from fifteen years ago was correct: The bat has to die and be necropsied, because every year there are several rabies deaths in persons who wake up with a bat in the room and no visible evidence of a bite.
posted by docpops at 10:29 AM on April 10, 2007


Sorry I was too lazy to dig though MC's history to find a lame (According to my super-cool metric, naturally) AskMe post to throw back in his face... uh okay, here we go:
It's a fucking raccoon. They are oversized rats with creepy hands and masks.


Do you really want the community consensus on whether or not it's a good idea to rescue trapped raccoons? Again, you're saying a lot more about your character than mine if you think making an effort to help an animal is lame.

I suspect that to you this is more about saying that you don't like me, but by all means tell me more about how you're indifferent to unnecessary animal suffering.

Now who's "acting like a prick" again?
posted by Mayor Curley at 10:33 AM on April 10, 2007


Hey, docpops: my great uncle was the last recorded human death from rabies in Massachusetts. He died in 1935 at the age of 12. But he got bit by a dog, not a bat.
posted by Mayor Curley at 10:36 AM on April 10, 2007


That's a lesson in perspective if ever there was one.
posted by docpops at 11:25 AM on April 10, 2007


Submitter here- knowing this will never be read...

So I appear to have given you Worst Post Ever.

Be gentle, you mighty armada of Comic Book Guys sweeping your piercing judgments of my posting. I'm still learning how to use this thing, still trying to completely understand how discussion is discouraged and encouraged at the same time.

I did not phrase the question right, and I apologize.
posted by esereth at 1:17 PM on April 10, 2007


I'm suggesting we automatically hate all men. Because they're all child molesters.
posted by medusa at 1:20 PM on April 10, 2007


Be gentle, you mighty armada of Comic Book Guys sweeping your piercing judgments of my posting.

Don't worry about reassurances from the Internet about your bogeyman du jour-- your kid is going to be a confirmed winner with such a level-headed, well-cultured, bright mum!
posted by Mayor Curley at 1:38 PM on April 10, 2007


Thank you, Curley hon. But....weren't you the one who...sorta...started this thread to talk about how I polluted Metafilter with my pap?

How come compliment me now? Which I appreciate terribly, by the way.
posted by esereth at 1:46 PM on April 10, 2007


That reference to the Comic Book Guy suggests you like The Simpsons, correct?

"Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic."
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:03 PM on April 10, 2007


esereth, don't take the enflamed discussion too personally; as you say, you're still figuring this place out, and one of the things that happens in Metatalk is fairly charged and enthusiastic discussions of norms and perceived transgressions across the whole site. My advice is to take what you can from the constructive comments about phrasing and presentation, and keep in mind what you've learned when you make your next post.

And don't let Mayor Curley get under your skin. He seems to enjoy being a jerk.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:10 PM on April 10, 2007


HA!

What a pill you are. No matter, I choose to be complimented, you dear, churlish little man.

Be Nice.
posted by esereth at 2:17 PM on April 10, 2007


What a pill you are. No matter, I choose to be complimented, you dear, churlish little man.

I got bigger problems than your thin condescension.
(even though I'm pretty sure you're someone's "Middle American Mom" trolling sockpuppet at this point).

cortex just called me "an asshole." Given how everyone has been standing in line to fellate him since he was made a mod, that's essentially a fatwa against me. I'm totally marked.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:32 PM on April 10, 2007


"a jerk" rather. I added asshole. But I'm still ready for the intifada!
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:33 PM on April 10, 2007


holy fuck, what is in the mefi water, recently?!
posted by shmegegge at 2:40 PM on April 10, 2007


Yeah, "asshole" would have been overstating the case, I figured, and I felt that "seems to" respectfully allows for the possiblity that I'm mistaken and you're compelled to act like a jerk for reasons that create no sensation of pleasure within yourself, man.

And your mother is fatwa.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:41 PM on April 10, 2007


What's better then an internet tough-guy with delusions of edginess? The same, but with the added bonus of being a pompus, thin-skinned whiner.
posted by Snyder at 3:18 PM on April 10, 2007


"Fatwa" doesn't translate into "death warrant". Fatwa is simply a ruling based on hadith or Quran when there is no established repsonse or norm with an issue at hand. This is one more way that Islamophobic journalism and sentiment has inflated words of extremists to make the rest of Islam look bad.
posted by Burhanistan at 3:31 PM on April 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


"Fatwa" doesn't translate into "death warrant". Fatwa is simply a ruling based on hadith or Quran when there is no established repsonse or norm with an issue at hand.

I actually learned something from this thread! Hooray! Thanks Burhanistan!

Hey Snyder, who did I threaten to be a tough guy?
posted by Mayor Curley at 3:42 PM on April 10, 2007


from the first document cited in Loto's first comment: The report was designed and formatted by Janin/Cliff Design, Inc., and edited for Government Printing Office Style by Old Goat Communications.

just laughed, is all.
posted by exlotuseater at 6:48 PM on April 10, 2007


*Fellates cortex, molests Curley*
posted by Devils Slide at 10:29 PM on April 10, 2007


Oh, fatwa. It was nice to feel wanted though.
posted by yerfatma at 3:46 AM on April 11, 2007


Having arrived, let me say I come not to praise Curley, but to bury him. Bury him for suggesting there is a more precious commodity than well-fed upper-middle-class white children. I believe these children are the fuel that will stoke the Great American Economic Engine to a white hot heat. Join me, won't you, in pushing forward with my plans to feed these children into a furnace or melting pot or anything that will liquify both them and their MySpace friends, their velour "Juicy" sweatpants, their tired Ugg boots and all electronic devices either held or tethered to their bulging, buttery bodies. I have a dream that one day these children will be judged by the content of their character and found wanting. I have a dream that one day a Megan's List will enumerate not people who have paid their debt to society but those children who owe society a day's worth of care, a thought of someone else.
posted by yerfatma at 5:25 AM on April 11, 2007 [2 favorites]


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