Persecution complex, much? November 18, 2007 4:29 PM   Subscribe

Someone is begging for the banhammer.
posted by empath to Etiquette/Policy at 4:29 PM (189 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

Seconded. Can we take the vote to the floor?

Homeboy needs to lurk more.
posted by Mikey-San at 4:31 PM on November 18, 2007


thirded - you beat me by about 5 seconds on this - for a guy who just joined, he's creating a lot of ruckus

and we need a clean up there, too
posted by pyramid termite at 4:33 PM on November 18, 2007


here's mine:
Help maintain a healthy, respectful discussion by focusing comments on the issues, topics, and facts at hand—not at other members of the site.
MeTa, we have a breach.
Would anyone like to attempt to diffuse iknowimaloser? He feels slighted because Elim decided to post his name in a thread.
posted by carsonb at 4:34 PM on November 18, 2007


Wow. It's weird how you can take MeFi's high civility level for granted until you're reminded how godawful and inane a forum can be.

If there were no five dollar fee, would it always be like that? :/
posted by rokusan at 4:34 PM on November 18, 2007


here, i mean
posted by pyramid termite at 4:34 PM on November 18, 2007


Posting the name did seem like bad form, even though it's in the profile. As the guy himself so inelegantly responded, the handle and date joined would have made the point better, without getting all SomethingAwful in the middle.
posted by rokusan at 4:36 PM on November 18, 2007


YO, cold chef, I was reacting to the 5 or 6 posts previous to mine which didnt even give the commercial a chance. They simply said Huckabee=Republican=Bad. My self-righteous comments did not come out of nowhere. And I don't particularly care if self-righteous MeFites like me or not.

Actually, the comments before his were as follows:
1. Incredulous
2. Appalled
3. Actually liked it.
4. An attack against politicians using humor, no matter their slant.
5. Spitting in the commercial's general direction
6. Liked it.
7. Possibly Anti-Republican, but even that's a stretch.
8. Anti-republican.
9. Your crazy post based on no facts provided whatsoever, in which you insult the members of the website.

Defend that.
posted by ColdChef at 4:37 PM on November 18, 2007


Can we at least have the flame war excised from the post?

And I'd like to point out that loser boy's flames are being stoked by the alternating "you're an asshole" comments.
posted by noble_rot at 4:37 PM on November 18, 2007


Ok, I'm on it. Gave the guy a timeout, trying to clean up that thread. A little disappointing how many people still argue with trolls.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:37 PM on November 18, 2007


If there were no five dollar fee, would it always be like that? :/

Probably, but not definitely. The GameFAQs forums are godawful, but the Mac OS X Hints forums aren't. Go figure.
posted by Mikey-San at 4:37 PM on November 18, 2007


My two cents:


And fuck you all for defending him. Or better yet. Defend him. What defense is there for posting my name? Gimme one.

Holy shit, JDGodall, why did you join MetaFilter today, if all you can do is pick fights with everyone? Perhaps you should check out Little Green Footballs or something.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:37 PM on November 18, 2007


i think he just copy-pasted. Regardless, the reaction was vastly disproportionate to the slight.
posted by empath at 4:37 PM on November 18, 2007


It's bad form to copy/paste from potentially members-only sections of a profile as Elim did, but the reflexive flaming response was completely absurd.
posted by zennie at 4:38 PM on November 18, 2007


Well, he was inspired to drop the five bucks so he could post about how just maybe blacks ARE inferior. I think the flame-out was inevitable.
posted by empath at 4:42 PM on November 18, 2007 [3 favorites]


To be fair, I'm not sure why it was necessary to post his name in the thread. Or the fact that he was so new to the site, unless it was just to point out that he was the kind of asshole who joins a site just to call people fuckers and pussies and tell them to have sex with their mothers. Oh, and I called mom. She totally said no.
posted by ColdChef at 4:42 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


I was going to send him a mefimail, advising him to tone it down, but it was too late by then. I knew it would only be a matter of time until there was a MeTa about the dude. I kind of feel bad for him; it seems like he should probably stay out of political threads (like I usually do). It's too easy to get sucked into the negativism, and he was new.

At least it was just a timeout & not a full-on ban. Maybe he will clean it up next time around.
posted by synaesthetichaze at 4:43 PM on November 18, 2007


It's bad form to copy/paste from potentially members-only sections of a profile as Elim did

Not buyin' it. If you don't want your name to find its way onto the Internet, don't put it there in the first place.
posted by Mikey-San at 4:43 PM on November 18, 2007


It doesn't need a cleanup. It needs to remain, with a "he's being banned" message, as a perfectly fine demonstration of what not to do on MeFi.

It's relatively short, in a thread that doesn't really count for much, and doesn't get so outrageously weird or awful as to traumatize future readers.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:43 PM on November 18, 2007


It's bad form to copy/paste from potentially members-only sections of a profile as Elim did

i agree - you know, the vibes are really funny here today - lots of new names, lots of odd arguments
posted by pyramid termite at 4:43 PM on November 18, 2007


Holy crap! I missed his participation in the other thread.

Yeah. Better off without that guy. He brings nothing to the table.
posted by ColdChef at 4:44 PM on November 18, 2007


To be fair, I'm not sure why it was necessary to post his name in the thread.

Yeah, there was no reason to post it, but there's also no real reason to be upset about it, since it was in his profile in the first place.
posted by Mikey-San at 4:44 PM on November 18, 2007


It doesn't need a cleanup. It needs to remain, with a "he's being banned" message, as a perfectly fine demonstration of what not to do on MeFi.

I agree with this.
posted by ColdChef at 4:45 PM on November 18, 2007


It's bad form to copy/paste from potentially members-only sections of a profile as Elim did

Except it wasn't members-only.
posted by dirigibleman at 4:46 PM on November 18, 2007


Posting information from people's profiles (which are nofollow'ed as far as Google is concerned) to the main parts of the site -- esp names, URLs, locations -- is against the rules. So "oh hey you're from Canada" is one thing, but "Bob Smith, also known as bobsmith1234, you are in trouble" is not. He has asked for his $5 back, we probbly won't be hearing from him again.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:48 PM on November 18, 2007


Does he get his $5 back?
posted by ColdChef at 4:50 PM on November 18, 2007


Posting information froim people's profiles (which are nofollow'ed as far as Google is concerned) to the main parts of the site -- esp names, URLs, locations -- is against the rules.

Since when? I've been here for six years, and have never heard of this rule.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 4:51 PM on November 18, 2007


Does he get his $5 back?

God, I hope not. If you go to a baseball game and throw rocks at the pitcher from the stands, you don't get a refund, do you?
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:58 PM on November 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


Since when? I've been here for six years, and have never heard of this rule.

We don't need rules for this sort of thing-or at least we didn't till today-because all us fine feathered mefites KNEW BETTER without being told.
posted by konolia at 5:01 PM on November 18, 2007


I've gotta say, looking at his comment history, it looks like that guy signed up just looking for a fight. A silly, arms-length slappy fight of the sort you see with high-school boys who are more interested in not getting punched than in punching.

I agree. Brings nothing to the table.
posted by adamrice at 5:03 PM on November 18, 2007


If it's in your profile, it's already public information. I'm not sure why posting it in the thread makes any difference.
posted by empath at 5:04 PM on November 18, 2007


jessamyn: A little disappointing how many people still argue with trolls.

I didn't get much of a reading on my trolldar from that guy's posts. Abrasive as hell, but it seemed like he genuinely believed what he was posting rather than just getting kicks from being contrary.

I'm probably nitpicking, but I personally don't fault anyone for replying to him since it doesn't seem like anyone was incited to his level of threadshitting.
posted by Riki tiki at 5:04 PM on November 18, 2007


I hope he feels better now that he's had his hissy fit.

No real harm done.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:05 PM on November 18, 2007


Also, it's a shame he doesn't have an extensive posting history.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:07 PM on November 18, 2007


that's a lot like saying it's a shame someone's diarrhea didn't leave a mile long trail
posted by pyramid termite at 5:10 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


If giving him his $5 back means that he'll leave more or less quietly, it's better for all concerned.

If it's in your profile, it's already public information. I'm not sure why posting it in the thread makes any difference.

If it's in your profile, it's not on Google. This almost never comes up, but occasionally we get people here who don't want their handle linked to their name so it's important to keep the two more or less separate.

It's not a hard and fast rule, but if someone objects to someone bringing information from their profile into a thread where it's linked with their handle, we will often clean it up. We don't want to have to get into a big discussion about whether it is or is not some variety of "outing" it's just not something that's strictly kosher.

Since you can change your profile (for example if you realize you've made a mistake listing your name there) this just seems to be a decent thing to do if people object to it. Since it's almost always done as some sort of attack on a person (esp going through someone's web site to pick information out of it and using that in a thread) we generally don't condone it. Like all guidelines, it's flexible, but generally something we'd rather not see.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:20 PM on November 18, 2007


I feel like doing something that breaks the rules, so:

Name: Wendell Wittler
Email: wendell@wendellwit.com
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Occupation: Still trying to decide what I want to be when I grow up
Gender: Asexual
AIM: I don't do IM.
ICQ: period.
Also On: MetaChat MonkeyFilter Twitter
Joined: sometime in 1999
posted by wendell at 5:21 PM on November 18, 2007 [3 favorites]


Dredging other people's profile information is also a trolling favorite. By forum etiquette, it's just not something you do without an obvious benevolent cause, and maybe not even then. I like to make AskMe answers geographically specific to the asker, but unless location in the question, I won't mention it. I've never seen an express rule against it; it just feels rude. (Maybe my admin days color my outlook on this.)
posted by zennie at 5:22 PM on November 18, 2007


Some shithead just mentioned my name in a thread the other day-- he didn't post my full name in the thread, but it was still lame. Granted, I goaded him a little, but he was posting some nonsense that seemed a wee bit racist.
posted by exlotuseater at 5:23 PM on November 18, 2007


If giving him his $5 back means that he'll leave more or less quietly, it's better for all concerned.

Fair enough. Still, I could see that causing problems in the future. Join, shit up the joint, ask for your money back. Repeat.
posted by ColdChef at 5:26 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


Full moon?
posted by Divine_Wino at 5:27 PM on November 18, 2007


True Enough, Although his name was public, and not enough info to actually Find him> I should not have done that and have been "SKEWL'd" properly for the offence. it being a new (BRAND SPANKING NEW) account I hope the damage was minimal (Meaningless).

Name: Elim
Email: bjones@softronics.com
Location: Portland, OR
Occupation: techy stuff,
Gender: yes please, oh wait....
Joined: October 2, 2001

Yep address and email change due to move..
posted by Elim at 5:29 PM on November 18, 2007


Did he freak out and I just missed it? I was unimpressed with his manipulative concession of points Mefis hadn't made in order to advance his obvious agenda, but was also giving him the benefit of the doubt.
posted by psmith at 5:29 PM on November 18, 2007


Five more dollars in the tip jar. Five more dollars.
posted by puke & cry at 5:31 PM on November 18, 2007


Astro Zombie 2 has had this coming for a while"

Name: Astro Zombie 2
Email: thehotestofheastrozombies@theastrozombieheadquarters.com
Location: Somewhere in space
Occupation: Astro Zombie
Gender: Gender is irrelevant to Astro Zombies
Joined: I was created by Astro Zombie 1 several years ago, and he has been ignoring me ever since
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:38 PM on November 18, 2007


What I can't figure out is why he joined in the first place. It would appear all he wanted to do is pick fights... oh, wait, I guess I answered my own question.
posted by languagehat at 5:43 PM on November 18, 2007


Oh, and I called mom. She totally said no.

But he has nylons and chocolate bars...
posted by jonmc at 5:48 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


I haven't read the whole thread yet, but tangentially, Flunkie sure did get a bad rap in the first half, at least. While there might not be a biological basis for racial differences (or there might be; I really don't know much about biology), people do seem to reliably be able to sort people into 'racial' groups, and there is certainly scientific work to be done on the psychology and neurobiology of what those people are doing when they are reliably sorting. Maybe it's a big mistake that we do that, and we shouldn't, but one way to figure out how to fix the putative mistake is to figure out what's going through our brains when we reliably sort people like that. That's all that Flunkie is advocating; investigation of our concept of race could happen, and that is surely scientific if psychology and neurobiology are sciences. But I look forward to some of the same crowd coming in here to tell me what a big racist I am.
posted by Kwine at 5:51 PM on November 18, 2007


That thread doesn't make any sense with the pruning done already. Maybe needs some additional trimming.
posted by puke & cry at 5:53 PM on November 18, 2007


Why is that obnoxious post even on the site? I mean, It's a single-link Op Ed to someone who consistently writes crap science OpEd s, not to mention absurdly inflammatory.
posted by delmoi at 5:54 PM on November 18, 2007


Fair enough. Still, I could see that causing problems in the future. Join, shit up the joint, ask for your money back. Repeat.

Except the repeat part is where Matt looks at the Paypal info and notices a familiar name. Or, if they sneak by that, we check IP matches. Etc.

The refund thing is Matt's reaction to the occasional asshat not only being a shit on mefi but also being a shit about Paypal after a ban. Fuck that; take your fiver and have a nice life, essentially.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:01 PM on November 18, 2007


Why is that obnoxious post even on the site? I mean, It's a single-link Op Ed to someone who consistently writes crap science OpEd s, not to mention absurdly inflammatory.

Heartily seconded. Jesus, what a steaming pile. And people are starting to tell each other to FUCK OFF. Bad juju.
posted by languagehat at 6:04 PM on November 18, 2007


FUCKNUGGET & BORSCHT ENEMA ASSOCIATES
Smoked Corncob Sphincter Stretching Accessories
posted by quonsar at 6:10 PM on November 18, 2007


FUCKNUGGET

can't wait to see the dipping sauces.
posted by jonmc at 6:12 PM on November 18, 2007 [3 favorites]


Yeah, he seems like a Republican, or at the very least somewhat right wing. Ban him.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 6:19 PM on November 18, 2007


The refund thing is Matt's reaction to the occasional asshat not only being a shit on mefi but also being a shit about Paypal after a ban. Fuck that; take your fiver and have a nice life, essentially.

Fine. I won't mind seeing asshats getting their money back PROVIDED that they get an email along with it that says "Fuck you; take your fiver and have a nice life." Then, I could sleep at night.
posted by ColdChef at 6:19 PM on November 18, 2007


Fuck off, Steve President whatever the hell. You're on the radar as a trolling asshole. I'm sure you're time will be up soon enough.
posted by puke & cry at 6:22 PM on November 18, 2007 [7 favorites]


your, damnit.
posted by puke & cry at 6:25 PM on November 18, 2007


What were the deleted comments?
posted by Kwantsar at 6:25 PM on November 18, 2007


Full moon?

Thanksgiving vacation. Time to trot out my pet theory that the worst behaviors on Mefi come out during the times that students and academics have nothing better to do (see Meta during the summer). That guy was probably Harold Bloom.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:27 PM on November 18, 2007 [3 favorites]


See, it's only a problem if right wing sorts are uncivil. puke & cry can tell me to fuck off all night long if he wants, because his left wing credentials are well established.

I think maybe the sign up page should make it clear that only left wing views are allowed on the site. Right wing and centrist posters will attacked until they retaliate, at which point they will be banned.

Writing the policy down might head some of this conflict off.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 6:28 PM on November 18, 2007


Mr. President, what the fuck? I was really stoked when you joined - you were really clever and more than a little sardonic - it was fun watching you run circles around some of the more windbaggish old-timers. But lately you've been so bitter. You have to understand that, for me, this website is sort of my personal dog-pit, where I make little bets with myself regarding the different mefites who jump into really nasty confrontations with other people. If EB or languagehat or someone starts getting their hackles up, my money's on the table. And you were this bright new thing! I was really cheering for you.

But lately you've been all one-liners and angry tirades. And so sarcastic, not even in a funny way. Seriously. hug?
posted by Baby_Balrog at 6:29 PM on November 18, 2007 [6 favorites]


Wow, for a second I was really, really disappointed in Jane Goodall.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:30 PM on November 18, 2007 [5 favorites]


can I add that I posted that comment without previewing, and thus I did not read your response to p&c, which I feel is more than adequate.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 6:30 PM on November 18, 2007


What are you still doing here Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America? I thought I told you to go work on your addiction and biking.
posted by jonmc at 6:30 PM on November 18, 2007


Mr. President tried to give me a hug the other day, but I didn't really like his attempt at a reacharound.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:33 PM on November 18, 2007


I think they should not get a refund. What's keeping someone from joining just to be a jackass and getting to keep their precious fiver to boot?

Maybe we should make people pay ten and then be on probation for a month. If they behave give them five back.
posted by konolia at 6:33 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


What are you still doing here Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America? I thought I told you to go work on your addiction and biking.

I don't remember that, which is odd, given how much weight your opinion carries with me.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 6:34 PM on November 18, 2007


puke & cry can tell me to fuck off all night long

and party every day
posted by fleetmouse at 6:39 PM on November 18, 2007 [6 favorites]


i would say that metafilter IS centrist, not left wing. It only appears left wing to people with right wing politics.
posted by empath at 6:41 PM on November 18, 2007


See, it's only a problem if right wing sorts are uncivil. puke & cry can tell me to fuck off all night long if he wants, because his left wing credentials are well established.

I VOTED DEMOCRATZ - I CAN HAS FUCK OFF?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:44 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


I think one of the more annoying habits trolls have is to call other commenters 'liberal' or 'PC' or 'left-wing' in order to shut down intelligent discussion.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:45 PM on November 18, 2007 [10 favorites]


i would say that metafilter IS centrist, not left wing. It only appears left wing to people with right wing politics.

I don't think this is right. Metafilter is very socially liberal, secular, collectively-focused, and concerned with social justice. I'm not saying it's a hotbed of revolutionary communism, but it's left wing.

I think one of the more annoying habits trolls have is to call other commenters 'liberal' or 'PC' or 'left-wing' in order to shut down intelligent discussion.

Are you trying to make a funny? Labeling people as "trolls" to shut down intelligent discussion happens far more frequently. It's really quite insidious. I'm called a troll a lot, and that relieves people from responding to what I say--instead, they just to insult me.

Have I ever argued anything that I didn't think was defensible, though? Of course not. Have I ever stuck to a position after being shown to be wrong? I don't believe I have. No, I'm called a troll because my politics are wrong.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 6:56 PM on November 18, 2007


I don't call you a troll because your politics are wrong.

I call you a smart ass troublemaker because your frequently flawed judgments (like your "ZOMG! Somebody's using AskMe to find a way around the law!" postings) are coupled with an annoying arrogance of assumed authority. You seem to be taking your nickname WAY too seriously.

I'm just glad It's Raining Florence Henderson doesn't do that, or we'd be constantly getting Golden Showers of Wesson Oil.
posted by wendell at 7:05 PM on November 18, 2007 [6 favorites]


Yeah, what were the deleted comments? From what he has now he is mostly expressing his opinion with a sprinkling of snark on the side.
posted by schroedinger at 7:05 PM on November 18, 2007


No, I'm called a troll because my politics are wrong.

No, you're called a troll because you behave like a troll. There are plenty of Mefites who are right-of-center who don't behave nearly as unimaginatively odiously as you. If you think you have something intelligent to add, perhaps you might tone down the constant condescension and peel off that chip super-glued to your shoulder.

You'll find that people here across the wide political spectrum will be happy to deal with the substance of your comments, as soon as you choose to do so.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:07 PM on November 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


Metafilter is a tribe.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:08 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


puke & cry can tell me to fuck off all night long

Oh yeah, I've been waiting for this for too long. Umph umph umph.
posted by puke & cry at 7:09 PM on November 18, 2007


No, you're called a troll because you behave like a troll. There are plenty of Mefites who are right-of-center who don't behave nearly as unimaginatively odiously as you. If you think you have something intelligent to add, perhaps you might tone down the constant condescension and peel off that chip super-glued to your shoulder.

I was quite nice until I started getting piled on constantly because of my politics.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:11 PM on November 18, 2007


Are you trying to make a funny?

I think you made the same condescending remark about something I posted on yesterday. I told you to shove it up your ass, and both of our posts were deleted.

What is your problem, bub?
posted by KokuRyu at 7:12 PM on November 18, 2007


I was quite nice until I started getting piled on constantly because of my politics.

Yeah, you're like a helpless little turtle, turned on his back frantically waving his limbs to fend off all the haters. Tarzan play worlds smallest violin, Steve whatever guy.
posted by puke & cry at 7:14 PM on November 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


Have I ever argued anything that I didn't think was defensible, though?

The other day you said fat chicks were a cancer and called me a 'gay addict biker'. I'd love to hear your defense of that, Captain Rational.
posted by jonmc at 7:15 PM on November 18, 2007 [3 favorites]


The other day you said fat chicks were a cancer and called me a 'gay addict biker'. I'd love to hear your defense of that, Captain Rational.

Oh, you got me. I made a couple of jokes! That completely destroys my credibility.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:17 PM on November 18, 2007


I agree that the term troll is over-used and incorrectly applied. However, you seem bound and determined to paint yourself in the most cartoonish light possible since that Cuba MeTa, MPDSEA. Maybe it's a reaction to some people's misconceptions about who you are and what you're about, but comments by you that I've read and noticed lately have been almost parodical in their goofyness.

And MeFi is largely centrist in its politics, near as I can tell.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:18 PM on November 18, 2007


What is your problem, bub?

You're just so self-righteous and stupid. It's getting under my skin lately. Sry dood.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:19 PM on November 18, 2007


I didn't start selling crack to schoolkids until someone questioned my politics in a public forum, so I completely see where Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America is coming from. Being called on for unpopular politics can make a man do some crazy shit.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:20 PM on November 18, 2007 [6 favorites]


I was quite nice until I started getting piled on constantly because of my politics.

If it makes a difference to you MPDSEA, I never remember your politics until you insist on bringing them up. Pretty sure this had nothing to do with poltiics just a guy being a dick, and then you say "See, it's only a problem if right wing sorts are uncivil. puke & cry can tell me to fuck off all night long if he wants, because his left wing credentials are well established" which can be summed up as "paranoid whiny bullshit."
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 7:21 PM on November 18, 2007


I'm starting to taste blood, steve whatever. Please continue.
posted by puke & cry at 7:21 PM on November 18, 2007



Oh, you got me. I made a couple of jokes! That completely destroys my credibility.


With me it did, since up to that moment, we had never had any interaction at all, so I had no idea how to take your supposed kidding around. Context and experience means a lot.


I didn't start selling crack to schoolkids until someone questioned my politics in a public forum

can you front me some? I have a feeling it's gonna be a loong night.
posted by jonmc at 7:23 PM on November 18, 2007


You're just so self-righteous and stupid. It's getting under my skin lately. Sry dood.

Now, stand in front of a mirror and say that over and over until (a) it begins to soak in or (b) the mirror shatters.
posted by wendell at 7:23 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


All right, Jon, but just this once. Every rock I give you is a rock I deny a child.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:23 PM on November 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


I was quite nice until I started getting piled on constantly because of my politics.

From personal experience, I'll reiterate that how you choose to respond dictates people's impression of you. And that impression, once held, will be held damn near forever if you give excuses to make it memorable.

Again, there are plenty of right-of-center Mefites who have fun here, yet still contribute cogent views and are considered intelligent and thoughtful. Whether you want to be one of those Mefites and enjoy what the site offers, or be miserable and considered a troll because of how you choose to respond — that is entirely up to you.

Consider staying out of political threads altogether — I know that Metafilter is a lot more enjoyable for me by doing so, because some political issues that are raised are personal issues for me and my loved ones, and I have taken some of the barbs expressed on a personal level that is probably unhealthy.

Based on your behavior, I humbly suggest that because political threads result in you behaving in a poisonous manner, you might consider staying away from them. Again, this is up to you.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:23 PM on November 18, 2007 [5 favorites]


Thanks, dude. It's just callin' out to me, man, callin' out to me...
posted by jonmc at 7:26 PM on November 18, 2007


Damn, and I have to go to bed. Save the flameout till the morning, willya?
posted by languagehat at 7:26 PM on November 18, 2007


You're just so self-righteous and stupid. It's getting under my skin lately. Sry dood.

Hey, I'm not the neckbeard Elvis thingy that complains because 'leftist' or 'liberal' Mefites pileup on me. That would be you. Baby.

Sry d00d
posted by KokuRyu at 7:28 PM on November 18, 2007


Yeah, he seems like a Republican, or at the very least somewhat right wing. Ban him.

This is a jibe at the MetaFilter userbase in general that makes them out to be not just left-wing but left-wing and bloodthirsty. It also makes the assumption that this fiasco is politically fueled when in fact the user in question lost his shit when someone else posted his name in-thread and made some racist remarks elsewhere. Therefore it is unwarranted. Also, your comment isn't nice for the sake of not being nice. Therefore it is unnecessary as well.

Have I ever stuck to a position after being shown to be wrong? I don't believe I have.

Your initial position is unwarranted and unnecessary, and an apology is requested.
posted by carsonb at 7:32 PM on November 18, 2007


Yeah, what were the deleted comments? From what he has now he is mostly expressing his opinion with a sprinkling of snark on the side.

I saved the thread as soon as I saw them, because they made me chuckle and I knew they'd disappear. I don't think it's fair to repost them now that he can't respond, but the first comment was 5.7% "fuck" and the second was about the same.
posted by Partial Law at 7:32 PM on November 18, 2007


Even worse, he said your when he meant you're.
posted by Partial Law at 7:34 PM on November 18, 2007


I just hope no one ever posts MY real name in a mefi thread.

That could be embarassing.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 7:36 PM on November 18, 2007 [11 favorites]


I'm starting to taste blood, steve whatever. Please continue.

what type? AB+ has a wonderfully piquant flavor with overtones of Bordeaux, sandalwood and Carbona.
posted by jonmc at 7:37 PM on November 18, 2007


If anyone orders O+, I'm leaving. I am NOT drinking fucking O+!
posted by cog_nate at 7:39 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


From personal experience, I'll reiterate that how you choose to respond dictates people's impression of you. And that impression, once held, will be held damn near forever if you give excuses to make it memorable.

Yeah, I know all this. I suppose I never cared about anyone's opinion here enough to bother ingratiating myself.

Whether you want to be one of those Mefites and enjoy what the site offers, or be miserable and considered a troll because of how you choose to respond — that is entirely up to you.

Oh, I'm not miserable. I know it's kind of a bloodthirsty group, but I just don't care enough to flame out. I've already been told I'm going to be banned, and then I guess that will be that.

I'm disappointed, sure. I thought MeFi would be a good site for a spirited debate now and then, but that's really not what it's for.

That's not MeFi's fault, though.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:40 PM on November 18, 2007


You blood snobs make me sick.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:41 PM on November 18, 2007


Well, I usually stick to bile, myself, but I make exceptions for the good stuff.
posted by jonmc at 7:42 PM on November 18, 2007


Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America: Turning a MeTa thread into a referendum on yourself is never a good idea :P
posted by delmoi at 7:44 PM on November 18, 2007


Labeling people as "trolls" to shut down intelligent discussion happens far more frequently.

steve, you are often deliberately provocative in a way you do not have to be

"Yeah, he seems like a Republican, or at the very least somewhat right wing. Ban him."

it's obvious to me that you did not see his original comments, in which he told members of the site to go fuck themselves and other such schoolyard insults, repeatedly - he did have a legitimate beef, but he expressed it in a way that was childish and inappropriate and rather trollish - most of his posts in that thread broke the guidelines - they were flames directed at other members

it had nothing to do with his politics - in fact, i would leave this site if i ever saw it kick people off for their political views - i do not participate or often read dailykos or democratic underground or freerepublic for that very reason - they ban users for their political views

and for you to claim that is quite trollish of you - in fact, you've developed this habit of saying something outrageous and then moderating your views when people try to address you reasonably

sure is odd how YOU haven't been banned yet for your political views, even when you express them with such lack of subtlety, isn't it?
posted by pyramid termite at 7:48 PM on November 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


I think I might have turned loserboy bitter with my snarking at his meaningless blather in the race thread.
posted by nasreddin at 7:49 PM on November 18, 2007


Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America: Turning a MeTa thread into a referendum on yourself is never a good idea :P

Hey, I didn't make everyone start talking about me.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:50 PM on November 18, 2007


I suppose I never cared about anyone's opinion here enough to bother ingratiating myself.

But you do seem bothered with being called a troll. Not an opinion, just an observation that might be worth a thought or two on your part. Sleep on it, perhaps, and come back tomorrow with a fresh perspective?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:52 PM on November 18, 2007


Hey, I didn't make everyone start talking about me.

Oh, bullshit.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:57 PM on November 18, 2007


fucking O+

*Cries*

Actually, that reminded me that a) I'm due to give, and b) anyone up for a repeat of the MeFi BDay Blood Drive?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:02 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


But you do seem bothered with being called a troll. Not an opinion, just an observation that might be worth a thought or two on your part. Sleep on it, perhaps, and come back tomorrow with a fresh perspective?

I honestly don't think I am bothered by being called a troll, as such. I think that the people who call out trolls are more disruptive than the trolls they call out, for the most part, and I'm just the sort to share my opinion when given the chance.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 8:02 PM on November 18, 2007


Metafilter has been a crankypants convention for the last few days, hasn't it? Is everyone under a lot of stress getting ready fo thanksgiving or something?
posted by empath at 8:11 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


One of the comments wondered when humans decided that intelligence was the most revered trait.

It reminded me of the following quote:

"People say 'Oh, David Beckham, he's not very bright.' Yeah. They don't say 'Stephen Hawking, he's shit at football.'"
posted by flarbuse at 8:12 PM on November 18, 2007 [7 favorites]


I just hope no one ever posts MY real name in a mefi thread.
That could be embarassing.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher


That would upset me, too.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 8:14 PM on November 18, 2007


AB+ represent!
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:17 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


I honestly don't know my blood type, I think it's mostly Pabst and piss.
posted by nola at 8:19 PM on November 18, 2007


Why is that obnoxious post even on the site? I mean, It's a single-link Op Ed to someone who consistently writes crap science OpEd s, not to mention absurdly inflammatory.

>>Heartily seconded. Jesus, what a steaming pile. And people are starting to tell each other to FUCK OFF. Bad juju.


Thirded. That thing's a disgrace. Speaking of finding this place kind of depressing of late.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:22 PM on November 18, 2007


A+ BLOOD! WOULD CIRCULATE AGAIN!!1
posted by CKmtl at 8:23 PM on November 18, 2007 [5 favorites]


"Oh, and I called mom. She totally said no."

That's not what she told me.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:34 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


Well, I am quick to tell someone to fuck off. I blame it on my a+ blood.
posted by puke & cry at 8:37 PM on November 18, 2007


O+. I give, and I give, and I give.
posted by yhbc at 8:42 PM on November 18, 2007


I don't like my blood.
posted by breezeway at 8:43 PM on November 18, 2007


A+! WOULD DERAIL TROLLING AGAIN!!
posted by ALongDecember at 8:44 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


B+. I got tired of lying about being gay so I stopped giving after a couple years.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:50 PM on November 18, 2007


Oh, you got me. I made a couple of jokes! That completely destroys my credibility.

Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh say the same thing.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:56 PM on November 18, 2007


B+. I got tired of lying about being gay so I stopped giving after a couple years.

Huh?
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:57 PM on November 18, 2007


I think it's mostly Pabst and piss.

Aren't these the same thing?
posted by Urban Hermit at 8:57 PM on November 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


You can't give blood in the U.S. (at least when the Red Cross is involved) if you have ever, once, had a homosexual encounter. Each time you give blood, you have to answer the question, and if you ever say you have, you can't donate.

It's probably the single most disgraceful thing about the whole country, come to think about it.
posted by yhbc at 8:58 PM on November 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


Huh?

Sorry, I have that the other way around: Being honest about being gay means one cannot give blood.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:00 PM on November 18, 2007


You can't give blood in the U.S. (at least when the Red Cross is involved) if you have ever, once, had a homosexual encounter.

Does thinking that Taye Diggs looks awesome in a cable-knit sweater count?
posted by ColdChef at 9:00 PM on November 18, 2007 [3 favorites]


And it's just like MeFi where the negative blood types aren't just a minority, but they're afraid to speak up for fear of being attacked or ostracized... well, I'M O NEGATIVE AND NOBODY'S GOING TO SHUT ME UP... or off... damn, seem to have opened a vein or something...
posted by wendell at 9:02 PM on November 18, 2007


I've recently encountered the collision of internet identity and real-world identity through overzealous high school "friends" who discovered my lame-ass blog while organizing a 25th reunion in the zippy new cyberverse that their secretaries have discovered for them. I dreaded this, but then found out that I'm just as irrational, irrelevant, and profane in public as I am on the internet, thus making me feel better about myself in some sort of misanthropically holistic way. So I'm less concerned with my "real" identity being exposed. As long as my passwords to the pay porn sites aren't compromised.

Oh, sorry, this was supposed to get posted to my blog.

That's not what she told me.

Did you tell her not to talk with her mouth full?
posted by BitterOldPunk at 9:03 PM on November 18, 2007


"Encounter" implies physical contact, and therfore does not include those steamy scenarios that reside only in the dark corners of your overheated mind.
posted by yhbc at 9:04 PM on November 18, 2007


Thinking that Taye Diggs looks awesome in a cable-knit sweater counts as SOMETHING, but I haven't yet figured out what... loss of blood affecting my snark...
posted by wendell at 9:04 PM on November 18, 2007


When you cut the trolling motor and just drift on the flat gold of the lake, you feel like you're moving through a viewmaster slide between layers of pine and mountain and sky above. Then the line twitches and the beery afternoon returns, and you've got a live one; come on!
posted by breezeway at 9:07 PM on November 18, 2007 [3 favorites]


yhbc: Canada too (or Quebec at least, we have our own provincial blood service). Unless they've changed without my knowing of it. The one and only time I gave blood, soon after I turned 18, the questions were in the "Have you / Are you..." form:

... received a tattoo in the last X years?
... a man who has had sex with another, or had sex with a man who's had sex with another man, since 1970-something?

Haven't given blood since. But that's also because my veins are apparently "weak" and cave in easily, thus making the whole thing a bigger pain. And someone who was giving blood at the same time went into some kind of seizure... Freaked me out.
posted by CKmtl at 9:09 PM on November 18, 2007


Er. "a man who has had sex with another man"
posted by CKmtl at 9:11 PM on November 18, 2007


I was hoping this would turn into a cascading flameout, wherein one by one, members would come to the thread and say something outrageous and then get piled on and then scream. It was off to a good start.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:27 PM on November 18, 2007


Thank God the nurses who draw my blood never ask me if I have had sex with a monkey.

Stupid sexy monkeys with their stupid blood diseases.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:27 PM on November 18, 2007


I like donating blood. It makes getting drunk sooooo much cheaper.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 9:28 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


Alvy, I think it'd be a great idea to do another Boxing Day blood drive. Can someone post it to MeTa? If not, I'll wait a couple days and do it.

(Self-hating O+ here.)
posted by cog_nate at 9:31 PM on November 18, 2007


"People say 'Oh, David Beckham, he's not very bright.' Yeah. They don't say 'Stephen Hawking, he's shit at football.'"

Actually until he was diagnosed with whatever it is he's got, he was kind of a jock. Into football and that sort of thing.
posted by delmoi at 9:34 PM on November 18, 2007


Thirded. That thing's a disgrace. Speaking of finding this place kind of depressing of late.

Man, it's way better then it was a couple of years ago.
posted by delmoi at 9:36 PM on November 18, 2007


"People say 'Oh, David Beckham, he's not very bright.' Yeah. They don't say 'Stephen Hawking, he's shit at football.'"

See Theory of Multiple Intelligences
posted by KokuRyu at 9:40 PM on November 18, 2007


"something outrageous"
posted by exlotuseater at 9:54 PM on November 18, 2007


I thought it was going to be me that was begging for the banhammer. Don't freak me out!
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 10:02 PM on November 18, 2007


puke & cry can tell me to fuck off all night long if he wants, because his left wing credentials are well established

Oh please. The guy was a dick who showed up just to fight, got himself a temporary timeout for his asshole behavior in the blue, and ran crying home. Telling someone to fuck off in the gray, on the other hand, while not model behavior, has only rarely been punished. Fury has always had a bit more license here.
posted by mediareport at 10:05 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


Uhhh, you guys? Ummmm, I'm sorry for interrupting and stuff. It's just... ummm... I'm just kinda thinkin' this might not be a great weekend for making jokes on Mefi about people's mothers choking on penises...
posted by miss lynnster at 10:30 PM on November 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


Oh, right. That's how Kanye West's mom died, isn't it? Too soon.
posted by item at 10:40 PM on November 18, 2007 [5 favorites]


You can't give blood in the U.S. (at least when the Red Cross is involved) if you have ever, once, had a homosexual encounter. Each time you give blood, you have to answer the question, and if you ever say you have, you can't donate.

Being honest about being gay means one cannot give blood.

Oh what the fuck.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:52 PM on November 18, 2007


apropos of nothing, here's a link to a video. Just imagine Steve President as the dog and everything works. I SHIT YOU NOT.
posted by puke & cry at 10:53 PM on November 18, 2007


I really wish we could delete that race thread. It would be one thing if it linked to something substantial and relatively free of bias, but it's just a racist screed acting like a honeypot for surprisingly ill informed racists.
posted by cytherea at 10:54 PM on November 18, 2007


You're surprised that racists are ill informed? Really?
posted by item at 10:57 PM on November 18, 2007


Actually until he was diagnosed with whatever it is he's got...

Aye, but was he any good?
posted by pompomtom at 11:03 PM on November 18, 2007


apropos of nothing, here's a link to a video. Just imagine Steve President as the dog and everything works. I SHIT YOU NOT.
posted by puke & cry at 10:53 PM on November 18 [+] [!]

eponysterical?
posted by YoBananaBoy at 11:13 PM on November 18, 2007


You can't give blood in the U.S. (at least when the Red Cross is involved) if you have ever, once, had a homosexual encounter.

Canada's the same, in fact, here is the form [pdf].

Also: I thought Kanye's mom died from complications from plastic surgery?
posted by heeeraldo at 11:32 PM on November 18, 2007


You're surprised that racists are ill informed? Really?

I'm sheltered and naive.
posted by cytherea at 11:54 PM on November 18, 2007


Last time I checked (admittedly a long time ago, because it was a bit humiliating), you can't give blood in Korea if you're not Korean. Because us furriners is dirty.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:21 AM on November 19, 2007


I actually looked for data based on sexual orientation and BBPs a few weeks ago, the CDC doesn't appear to collect it, so I've got to wonder what the discrimination is based on.
posted by 517 at 1:01 AM on November 19, 2007


You can't give blood in the U.S. (at least when the Red Cross is involved) if you have ever, once, had a homosexual encounter.

Canada's the same.


Last time I checked (admittedly a long time ago, because it was a bit humiliating), you can't give blood in Korea if you're not Korean. Because us furriners is dirty.

Yeah, also if you are tatooed or if you've had more than two sexual partners in the past year. It's like you have to be Lady Di to donate blood.
posted by micayetoca at 2:07 AM on November 19, 2007


B+ here. Not just a blood group, a way of life!

I was hoping this would turn into a cascading flameout, wherein one by one, members would come to the thread and say something outrageous and then get piled on and then scream. It was off to a good start.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:27 PM on November 19


I think it may have started. *Sits back, adjusts voyeur goggles*
posted by h00py at 3:03 AM on November 19, 2007


or if you've had more than two sexual partners in the past year. It's like you have to be Lady Di to donate blood.
Well, I doubt that she's had more than two sexual partners in the past year.
posted by dg at 3:10 AM on November 19, 2007 [4 favorites]


AB+ represent!

See, one of the mods is a member of the Aryan Brotherhood. How Captain Steve Emperor Eddie Cochrane Alabama Mississippi Goddam can even begin to think this place has a left wing bias is beyond me.

What's that you say? It's a blood group? Yeah, right. A pure aryan blood group, obviously.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:18 AM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


My powatics huits mommy.
posted by Divine_Wino at 5:00 AM on November 19, 2007


Who are you again?

+1 to the mefi blood drive
posted by Skorgu at 5:27 AM on November 19, 2007


Now, watch this blood drive.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:37 AM on November 19, 2007 [3 favorites]


AB+ here too, but I can't give blood because it's so thin it's like making love in a canoe - it's fucking close to water.
posted by Sk4n at 6:04 AM on November 19, 2007


It's like you have to be Lady Di to donate blood.
That's what she said.
posted by jmd82 at 6:33 AM on November 19, 2007


Oh, you got me. I made a couple of jokes!

Steve, I love jokes. I love off-color, raunchy, offensive humor. But saying 'you look gay' and 'fat chix sux,' is not exactly the soul of wit.
posted by jonmc at 6:42 AM on November 19, 2007


Late to the party, but, Steve, if you're still reading this:

I think you're using the "What-About-OJ-Simpson" defense (not on purpose).

Basically, that's when, say, some hypothetical guy would commit a murder, with a preponderance of evidence, and be found guilty, and then believe he was being treated unfairly because OJ was let off the hook.

However, in a case like that, the unfairness isn't in the criminal being convicted, but OJ not being convicted.

Being rightwing doesn't get you banned. Being leftwing doesn't get you banned. Being a rightwinged dick almost always gets you banned. Being a leftwing dick gets you banned some of the time. There is unfair/inconsistent treatment of dicks based on their political preference, but it isn't absolute, and it isn't unfair punishment of right-wing dicks, but occasional unfair leniency for left-wing dicks.
posted by Bugbread at 7:32 AM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]


In the guy's defence it might just be a reeeaally extreme case of new person try too hard, new person talk too much. If you're a new person, trying hard and getting called out can be difficult.
posted by nthdegx at 7:36 AM on November 19, 2007


Oh, I'm not miserable. I know it's kind of a bloodthirsty group, but I just don't care enough to flame out. I've already been told I'm going to be banned, and then I guess that will be that.

That was a half-joking aside in #mefi, though. And that's kind of the root of the issue, really. Unchecked #mefi-to-Metafilter crossover lulz = a problem—and people in the channel pretty much get that, whatever in-IRC joking goes on—and you've been on a serious fucking high-wire of on-site baiting lately and pretty much should consider cutting it the fuck out.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:49 AM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm disappointed, sure. I thought MeFi would be a good site for a spirited debate now and then, but that's really not what it's for.

It totally is, actually. The problem is that it's also on the internet. It's comparable to going to college because you're looking for exposure to thought provoking discussion and experiences. You'll absolutely get that, but then you realize you're also still surrounded by fucking obnoxious teenagers with almost inhumanly overblown entitlement issues. Yes, you're going to get your discussions and learn a lot and stuff, you're also going to come out of it saying that you totally get diesel sweeties, now.

Arguing politics (and a lot of other things) on the internet is going to involve a lot of shitflinging assholery on all sides. If you can find more reasonable discourse on 4chan, or somethingawful or fark or LGF, hey let us know. Me? I get my spirited debate over at stileproject. It's the haven for intelligent debate that metafilter could only aspire to be. also boobies.
posted by shmegegge at 9:21 AM on November 19, 2007


AB-, and the only one here it seems. Please don't ban me because of my unpopular blood status.
posted by arcticwoman at 9:58 AM on November 19, 2007


Your intolerance of the Rhesus factor is appalling. What's next, lactose?
posted by CKmtl at 10:15 AM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: a serious fucking high-wire of on-site baiting
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:29 AM on November 19, 2007


arcticwoman, you're not alone!
posted by mitzyjalapeno at 11:29 AM on November 19, 2007


puke & cry writes "apropos of nothing, here's a link to a video. Just imagine Steve President as the dog and everything works. I SHIT YOU NOT."

wtf?
posted by PugAchev at 11:45 AM on November 19, 2007


So, who's playing the role of the insufferably shrill MacBook PRO! enthusiast?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:41 PM on November 19, 2007


It's like you have to be Lady Di to donate blood.

Last time I checked, they won't take British blood either.
posted by nowonmai at 2:13 PM on November 19, 2007


I actually looked for data based on sexual orientation and BBPs a few weeks ago, the CDC doesn't appear to collect it, so I've got to wonder what the discrimination is based on.

Ronald Reagan.
posted by ericb at 3:04 PM on November 19, 2007


I blame Bonzo.
posted by jonmc at 4:30 PM on November 19, 2007


If threads keep on like this more often, I'll never get any work done.
posted by davejay at 6:15 PM on November 19, 2007


nowonmai: US won't take blood of anyone who has spent too much time in Europe (mad-cow disease).
posted by johngumbo at 12:00 PM on November 20, 2007


Actually, I just remembered something about the blood-drive I mentioned before.

I recall that in the paperwork, they said they would let you sit and bleed into a bag if you acknowledge being sexually active gay/bi man. However, the nurse would have to covertly put a sticker on your blood bag, indicating to the central sanguine depository that your donation is to be discarded. Supposedly so that those in the closet wouldn't have to loose face or out themselves to their donating peers.

Bureaucracy's awesome.
posted by CKmtl at 12:13 PM on November 20, 2007


Wow. Thanks for adding that, CKmtl; it helps me understand the fucked-up world I live in just a little bit better. That would be a great anecdote for a really black black-humor novel.
posted by languagehat at 12:42 PM on November 20, 2007


Canadian Blood Services has a similar face-saving protocol. After the doc asks the history questions, takes temperature and blood pressure readings, and checks my arms* for needle marks, they leave you alone in the room with two barcoded stickers (Yes, use my blood/No, don't use my blood), one of which the donor privately sticks to their donor form.

*Never my friends' it seems, just mine. Jerks.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:53 PM on November 20, 2007


Hunh, Why Quebec Has Their Own Blood System;
Or, Canadian Blood Services? Non, Merci!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:59 PM on November 20, 2007


Yeah... It seems like a big waste of money to me, to create roughly the same thing that was about to be reworked anyway.

But silly wastes of money aren't new here, what with the OQLF* and the weirdness of "Let Them Have Margarine, And Eat It Too So Long As It Is Not Yellow". The money spent on that could be better spent on so much else, like hospitals or infrastructure.

*They have no problem with "Y'é" as a contraction of "Il est" on billboards, radio, or TV. That's not bloody French.

/rant
posted by CKmtl at 1:32 PM on November 20, 2007


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