Make the Pledge November 27, 2007 6:01 AM   Subscribe

I think everyone's read the "note" about relevance and respect at the bottom of the posting window in the blue. But it seems that very few people actually take that message to heart.

I think it would be pretty nifty if we could take a pledge to conform to this note in spirit by clicking a button or something on our profile page, and if this pledge was indicated by a little icon next to the user name in comments.

The kicker would be that once you took the pledge, others could flag comments as a "pledge violation" which would show up, like favorited comments, as claimed violations on the profile screen next to the pledge choice itself. No revocation of the pledge by a violation would be inferred, but it would be easy to look up the comments that were claimed. Think of it as an "anti-favorite" or "this post sucked."

I think what I'm after is an accounting of jackassery -- just as there is an accounting of excellence. And I think that someone who makes a pledge to excellence should be held to it.

Yes, it could be misused by people who hate each other, but I think the patterns would be pretty apparent. ("Flagged as lame 568 times by 3 users" would kind of indicate a fued, n'est-ce pas?)
posted by seanmpuckett to Etiquette/Policy at 6:01 AM (189 comments total)

This idea is possibly the worst ever expressed in MetaTalk.

And there have been a lot of crappy ideas expressed here. Many of them mine.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:11 AM on November 27, 2007 [38 favorites]


What, so people who don't 'take the pledge' can get away with whatever they want?

We don't need a special 'broke the pledge' flag when we already have generic flags that cover this stuff: noise, derail, breaks guidelines, other. And, as has been said several times before, what actual flag is chosen is less important than the fact that a comment gets flagged multiple times.

Anyway, we all already take a pledge when we read through this sign-up page. The accounting of jackassery is our very identity on this site.
posted by chrismear at 6:11 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Seems kind of useless to me. Anyone who was willing to take the pledge would probably not act like a jackass to begin with. Also, by making it into a voluntary thing it suggests that only those who take the pledge are supposed to be upholding those values when this is something everyone is supposed to be doing.
posted by LeeJay at 6:12 AM on November 27, 2007


I like discussions heated but civil but all this would create is endless drama. I know you wish to lessen the drama but all this would accomplish is make feuds evident. Feuds are easy to ignore if they're out of sight but once they're in your face they gnaw and fester.
posted by Kattullus at 6:13 AM on November 27, 2007


(Also, previously.)
posted by chrismear at 6:13 AM on November 27, 2007


I think Jessamyn has said before that we don't want to encourage a culture of negativity which is what exactly what this would be reduced to, no matter how genuine the sentiment.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 6:15 AM on November 27, 2007


More specifically, previously.
posted by kisch mokusch at 6:17 AM on November 27, 2007


Or you could just not be an asshole.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:18 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


What Would Agent Howie Do?
posted by killdevil at 6:25 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Is this like a blogger code of conduct except with a little zapper that you can press that will shock the MeFite where they sit?

I get the desires behind this, but I think we just have to believe that people are generally doing their best where "their best" is going to vary from person to person.

Put another way, in my dreams is where you are all vikings.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:28 AM on November 27, 2007 [10 favorites]


When the revolution comes, we're going to put people who have these kinds of ideas ahead of the spammers and reality tv stars.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:30 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


*puts on viking helmet*

This is just slightly better than a stab in the face.
posted by geminus at 6:34 AM on November 27, 2007


I think it would be pretty nifty if we could take a pledge to conform

I never want to see those words in that order again.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:39 AM on November 27, 2007 [9 favorites]


No no no no no no no oh god no please no god please no no no no never no.

Also, what Brandon Blatcher said.
posted by OmieWise at 6:39 AM on November 27, 2007


Is this like a pledge to stay chaste before marriage? Do we get lapel buttons?
posted by signal at 6:40 AM on November 27, 2007


Bad.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:41 AM on November 27, 2007


Not just bad, but sanctimonious.
posted by boo_radley at 6:47 AM on November 27, 2007


Or you could just not be an asshole. -XQUZYPYHR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh wait that was disrespectful.

hahahahahahahahahahaha

seanmpuckett, with all due respect, I am flagging this as "fucking fucktarded".
posted by Mister_A at 6:48 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


I think it would be more useful if we did some of those trust fall exercises, where someone from the site that you think has a hard time expressing his feelings with you stands behind you, and then you close your eyes and fall backwards, trusting him to prevent you from falling all the way down. You learn to trust more, and he learns how to be there for someone he was previously uncomfortable with, and it's really a great experience for everyone involved.
posted by gsteff at 6:52 AM on November 27, 2007


I wouldn't trust any of you bastards to catch a cold, let alone my chubby ass.
posted by LeeJay at 6:56 AM on November 27, 2007 [3 favorites]


Is that a pledge pin in your profile?!!
/spittle
posted by Koko at 6:57 AM on November 27, 2007 [2 favorites]


This idea is so good that I am going to print this page, eat it, crap it out, fertilize some tomatoes with the crap, feed the tomatoes to a chicken, kill the chicken, feed the chicken to my cat, kill my cat, feed my cat to my dog, let the dog crap it out, kill the dog out of pure spite, then take a picture of the dog-crap and link to it via projects, print out that page, take it to the tattoo shop, and have it tattooed on my hiney.

I am not sure if chickens will eat tomatoes. Please advise.
posted by Mister_A at 7:04 AM on November 27, 2007 [9 favorites]


Can we have a Talking Stick, too? That way nobody could post or comment unless they had the Talking Stick. I think it would make things go more smoothly around here.
That's all I want. A Talking Stick.
Well, a Pledge and a Talking Stick.
O.K., a Pledge and a Talking Stick and a lapel pin. That ought to do it.
That'd be just perfect.
posted by Floydd at 7:05 AM on November 27, 2007 [2 favorites]


When life imitates Catch 22.
posted by Jofus at 7:05 AM on November 27, 2007


Other pissy comments that I was going to make but didn't:

"There is, sir, no accounting for jackassery."

and

"Pledges? We don't need no stinkin' pledges."
posted by Jofus at 7:10 AM on November 27, 2007


Except I just did
posted by Jofus at 7:10 AM on November 27, 2007


Turn that Talking Stick into a conch shell and we're just a hundred pages away from trying to kill each other. Sweet!
posted by bluishorange at 7:12 AM on November 27, 2007 [5 favorites]


sean, shutup.
posted by Stynxno at 7:15 AM on November 27, 2007


You know what would be a really scary dream?

The guy from the Monopoly box chasing you through an endless tunnel. He's got these huge, jagged razors that jut out of his mouth at violent angles. And the whole time, he's shouting, "I'M GOING TO MURDALIZE YOU!!!!! I'M GOING TO MURDALIZE YOU!!!!"
posted by Afroblanco at 7:15 AM on November 27, 2007 [5 favorites]


I have been trying to kill you with my mind, bluishorange. WITH MY MIND!!!!11!!!1
posted by Mister_A at 7:15 AM on November 27, 2007


I think you can take that as a collective "Hell, no." Congratulations, you've managed to unify MetaFilter!
posted by languagehat at 7:16 AM on November 27, 2007 [5 favorites]


While it is true that positive reinforcement encourages positive behaviour, a lack of negative reinforcement does nothing to discourage negative behaviour. Assholes will continue to act like assholes unless doing so has consequences.

My desire for elevated levels of discourse is genuine.
Is it forlorn, as well?
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:16 AM on November 27, 2007


A better pledge would be to completely ignore comments that are rudely expressed (other than possible flagging if appropriate). The effect would be like that stealth banning thing they do on some boards where the banned person's posts are visible to them but invisible to everyone else.
posted by teleskiving at 7:17 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Could we also get a swear jar? I think paypal has a "build-a-button" for this. $0.50 per f--k sounds about right.

same as in town
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 7:17 AM on November 27, 2007 [3 favorites]


Think of this as an "anti-favorite" or "this post sucked."
posted by Wolfdog at 7:17 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


The last time I took a pledge I was paddled with a Ouji board and covered in animal feces by six men in a frat house so I'm a little gun-shy on this sort of thing.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 7:22 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


> Assholes will continue to act like assholes unless doing so has consequences.

Acting like an asshole does have its consequences. You can be suspended for a day, a week, a month, etc. by the moderators, or even permabanned. You also gain a reputation as an asshat if you continue to act like an asshole, and that has its consequences as well.
posted by WCityMike at 7:22 AM on November 27, 2007


The kicker would be that once you took the pledge, others could flag comments as a "pledge violation" which would show up, like favorited comments, as claimed violations on the profile screen next to the pledge choice itself.

The kicker, indeed. For fuck's sake, no.
posted by desuetude at 7:22 AM on November 27, 2007


My desire for elevated levels of discourse is genuine.

But the mechanism you suggested wouldn't work to do what you want it to do. Your suggestion would make things worse.
posted by mediareport at 7:23 AM on November 27, 2007


I pledge allegiance
To the banner image
Of the United Sites of MetaFilter
And to the content over which it sits
One domain under mathowie
With favorites and snarkitude for all.
posted by brain_drain at 7:23 AM on November 27, 2007 [3 favorites]


are you miserably bothered by the low levels of discourse, sean? because there's this post-bothered phase you can get to.
posted by de at 7:28 AM on November 27, 2007 [5 favorites]


What is the perpetual urge in the human psyche to bind each other with chains of obedience, control, submission and compulsion? The chains can be great rusty iron bastards or the feather light threads of a "pledge button" in one's profile on Metafilter, but they are always there, rattling and clanking to remind us that we must all belong to someone else's idea of our own humanity. Bah, I say, not for me your chains.

I respect the spirit in which you present your idea, but I regret and refuse entirely any method of enforcing compliance as stifling and preposterously expensive in emotional, administrative and social overhead.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:31 AM on November 27, 2007 [7 favorites]


While it is true that positive reinforcement encourages positive behaviour, a lack of negative reinforcement does nothing to discourage negative behaviour. Assholes will continue to act like assholes unless doing so has consequences.

It does have consequences. People get called out in-thread. Or comments are flagged. Enough flags and a moderator steps in.

My desire for elevated levels of discourse is genuine.
Is it forlorn, as well?


If you want elevated discussion then leave plenty of on-topic, thoughtful, relevant comments. Engage those who do the same. Ignore those who don't. I think your heart is in the right place but your idea...no. Plenty of us get tired of the assholes but there are already measures in place to deal with them.
posted by LeeJay at 7:35 AM on November 27, 2007


we just have to believe that people are generally doing their best where "their best" is going to vary from person to person.
posted by jessamyn

That right there is more devastating than the finger pointing at you, saying you broke the pledge. "Forgive them, please, they are doing their "best"."
posted by micayetoca at 7:41 AM on November 27, 2007


I think it would be pretty nifty if we could take a pledge.

But will 'pledge violators' have to assume the position?
posted by KokuRyu at 7:43 AM on November 27, 2007


Pledge violators are easy to spot, as they smell of lemon in unexpected and intimate places.
posted by Wolfdog at 7:46 AM on November 27, 2007 [8 favorites]


And the whole time, he's shouting, "I'M GOING TO MURDALIZE YOU!!!!! I'M GOING TO MURDALIZE YOU!!!!"

Sir, I believe the correct term is "murderize". Unless, of course, this is yet another Metafilter in-joke that I'm not privy to. I'll never be one of the cool kids.
posted by Evangeline at 7:49 AM on November 27, 2007


That's some fucking elevated discourse, Divine_Wino, you magnificent bastard!
posted by Mister_A at 7:49 AM on November 27, 2007


I'm sure this would work about as well as those pledges Christian teens take not to have sex before they're married.

"Dear Lord I promise I won't touch it."
posted by chunking express at 7:55 AM on November 27, 2007


Can we call all those who refuse to take the pledge "Commies" and take away their jobs?
posted by orthogonality at 7:56 AM on November 27, 2007


I think what I'm after is an accounting of jackassery -- just as there is an accounting of excellence. And I think that someone who makes a pledge to excellence should be held to it.

sean, the main reason you're getting such a strong negative reaction here isn't, I think, because of any disagreement with the idea that people should try to be good contributors and non-asshats around here. As much as asshattery has its odd moments (mefi's history is rich with anti-hero landmarks), most folks here are pretty much onboard with Don't Be An Asshat as a general principle.

But you're proposing a system to deal with a problem for which there are mechanisms in place. As others have pointed out, we have flags and in-thread rebukes and metatalk callouts, and mathowie and jessamyn and I talk to people via email and give them timeout and even ban them outright when there's a problem with a pattern of shitty behavior, and such.

So your suggestion fails to really acknowledge any of that, which leaves folks wondering if you're aware of that stuff in the first place, or know it's there but have specific objections to it, or think its insufficient in some general sense, or what. Grand feature requests that don't offer an explicit grounding in the reality of the site as it is tend to be poorly received and not taken particularly seriously, even if the intention is well-meaning enough.

And I do think you mean well, and hope your desire for the site isn't forlorn, but I think your specific suggestion is indeed a bad one. The idea of a pledge is going to bother a lot of people, not least because there exists already an informal "pledge" in the form of the guidelines. And the idea of an enforcable pledge, doubly so: if there's any use to the idea of public shaming and rebuke, it needs to be hands-on work around here, not an automated Gotcha! push-button system. Flagging, for example, isn't super disruptive partly because it's hidden; we don't show that sort of information for public consumption, so there's no reward for piling flags on someone out of spite.

If you see bad behavior—behavior that violates the guidelines of the site—then go ahead and flag it as such. Send us an email if it's something really problematic. Maybe respond (civilly!) to the person causing the offense. These are the mechanisms that have been in place for a long time around here, and they work pretty well.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:59 AM on November 27, 2007 [3 favorites]


No revocation of the pledge by a violation would be inferred, but it would be easy to look up the comments that were claimed.

^^Your favorite imposture to elevated discourse sucks^^

That is not what "infer" means
posted by Mister_A at 8:00 AM on November 27, 2007


"I think it would be pretty nifty if we could take a pledge to conform to this note in spirit by clicking a button or something on our profile page, and if this pledge was indicated by a little icon next to the user name in comments. "

Jesus. Are we all gonna be Sunday School Boy Scouts too? Or is the model more Young Pioneer badges? "Nifty" indeed. This is why I hate Helen Lovejoy busybodies.
posted by orthogonality at 8:03 AM on November 27, 2007


Pledge violators are easy to spot, as they smell of lemon in unexpected and intimate places.

Dammit Wolfdog! Now I've got the Lemon Pledge jingle (to the tune of Peter, Paul & Mary's 'Lemon Tree') stuck in my head.
"Lemon Pledge, as you’re dusting, brings new luster to the wood."
posted by ericb at 8:04 AM on November 27, 2007


Lemon Pledge, as you’re "dusting", brings new luster to the "wood".
posted by Wolfdog at 8:06 AM on November 27, 2007 [3 favorites]


Mister_A: Chickens love tomatoes and other fresh vegetables. There is absolutely nothing in your plan that could go wrong.
posted by stet at 8:10 AM on November 27, 2007


I think it would be pretty nifty terrible if we could take a pledge

Fixed that for you.
posted by Autarky at 8:15 AM on November 27, 2007


Cortex: Thank you for that excellent response detailing the systems in place. It's not easy to see them at work because they are as you say mostly behind-the-scenes. I'm sure your [mods] efforts do help considerably, and it likely seems that my suggestion flies in the face of the work you continue to do.

I was in my OP above looking for a step just below activating the moderator gun. From your response, it seems that perhaps the correct approach is to just go ahead and use the flag. I'll take a harder look at what exactly is setting me off about certain posts/comments, and see if it is a personal reaction problem or something that I should indeed be flagging for review.

I do wish more folks would re-read that note below the comment form, though, and take heed of it.

I consider the topic closed, and wish to thank those of you who took the time to respond thoughtfully in your disagreement.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:17 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


MetaFilteragers who take the pledge have non-vaginal intercourse at the seam rate as MetaFlteragers who do not take the pledge, but are less likely to use protection when doing so.
posted by dismas at 8:19 AM on November 27, 2007


I consider the topic closed

not so fast there chief, we're just gettin started
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:24 AM on November 27, 2007 [4 favorites]


I believe the correct term is "murderize"

I'm not sure of the exact application of the term "correct" when dealing with Warner Brothers cartoons, but although "murderize" is clearly as Standard English-like a form as you can get for a nonword, it's not what you actually hear, which is more like "moitalize" or "moidalize."
posted by languagehat at 8:25 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Metafilter Loyalty Oath
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:27 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Are we all gonna be Sunday School Boy Scouts too?

Not until they start taking atheists, and gay people.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:29 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


...it's not what you actually hear, which is more like "moitalize" or "moidalize."

Really? I've always heard "moiduhrize", but I bow to your greater wisdom.

It's definitely "coituhns" (with a glottal stop at the "t"), though. I'm standing my ground on that one.
posted by Evangeline at 8:39 AM on November 27, 2007


Help maintain a healthy, respectful discussion by focusing comments on the issues, topics, and facts at hand—not at other members of the site.

While we're reviewing that text, can we change the last 'at' to 'on'?

(By the way, I notice there's no such text for MetaTalk. I guess we don't need one here. Because we're all so respectful.)
posted by pracowity at 8:53 AM on November 27, 2007



Were you trying to do the button trick there blazecock?
posted by Mister_A at 8:54 AM on November 27, 2007


Holy fuck, how did this metatalk post ever come about? Your usernumber says you've been here for years, man! Years! How could you possibly think this was a good idea? It's like you just popped out of the woodwork all of a sudden, dressed in a schoolmarm outfit to say:

"Now class, I have every intention of looking down my nose at you so that I can see you through my tiny little reading glasses. This ruler here is so that I can rap your rapscalliony little knuckles."

I mean, what is this little gem?!

While it is true that positive reinforcement encourages positive behaviour, a lack of negative reinforcement does nothing to discourage negative behaviour.

For real? That is the most complete demonstration of the failure of logic on a basic level that I can possibly imagine coming from a sentence that on the surface still appears to make some form of sense. You know what else does nothing to discourage negative behavior? A lack of banana cream pies. I propose a pledge to banana cream pies from now on, and anyone who ever acts like a jerk on metafilter should be flagged as [BANANA CREAM PIE-IST].

did someone shit in your cereal this morning? There's no way this is popping up out of thin air because you simply had a startling revelation while you were out saving kittens. I'm going to guess that someone said something nasty to you and it got your knickers all in a twist.

Stop being so god damn Banana Cream Pie-ist.
posted by shmegegge at 8:58 AM on November 27, 2007


Listen you snotgobs, I don't need no pledge to treat all you cling-on lickers with respect. I treat all you fluff-sniffers respectfully because it's in my nature to do so. Not because some pledge tells me that you stain-eaters are worthy of it.
posted by The Deej at 8:59 AM on November 27, 2007 [2 favorites]


Sir,

I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Sincerely,
S. L. Ogger, B.B.Q., W.T.F
posted by slogger at 9:01 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


I feel that the "little zapper that you can press that will shock the MeFite" concept hasn't been sufficient explored and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.
posted by Your Time Machine Sucks at 9:02 AM on November 27, 2007 [2 favorites]


Can we call all those who refuse to take the pledge "Commies" and take away their jobs?

Why take half measures? Let's put them on special trains and send them deep into the interior.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:02 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Ooh, you mean like into the center of the earth, Meatbomb? What about the Morlocks? Would the Morlocks eat the commies or just hold elevated fucking discourse with them?
posted by Mister_A at 9:04 AM on November 27, 2007


I'm afraid any such pledge would conflict with previous blood-curdling oaths made to shadowy groups bent on bringing down MeFi and all it stands for from the inside. And those are people who don't so much give you a time-out as chop off your extremities and dump you in the river for non-compliance. I'm sure you'll appreciate my reluctance.
posted by Abiezer at 9:05 AM on November 27, 2007


Instead of a click box that would put something in your profile, just copy and paste the following into the free form space
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g                                               g  
o /     \             \            /    \       o
a|       |             \          |      |      a
t|       `.             |         |       :     t
s`        |             |        \|       |     s
e \       | /       /  \\\   --__ \\       :    e
x  \      \/   _--~~          ~--__| \     |    x  
*   \      \_-~                    ~-_\    |    *
g    \_     \        _.--------.______\|   |    g
o      \     \______// _ ___ _ (_(__>  \   |    o
a       \   .  C ___)  ______ (_(____>  |  /    a
t       /\ |   C ____)/      \ (_____>  |_/     t
s      / /\|   C_____)       |  (___>   /  \    s
e     |   (   _C_____)\______/  // _/ /     \   e
x     |    \  |__   \\_________// (__/       |  x
*    | \    \____)   `----   --'             |  *
g    |  \_          ___\       /_          _/ | g
o   |              /    |     |  \            | o
a   |             |    /       \  \           | a
t   |          / /    |         |  \           |t
s   |         / /      \__/\___/    |          |s
e  |           /        |    |       |         |e
x  |          |         |    |       |         |x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
posted by frecklefaerie at 9:05 AM on November 27, 2007 [3 favorites]


did someone shit in your cereal this morning?

Et tu, shmegegge. Dude has displayed some introspection already. It is time for the silly now.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:06 AM on November 27, 2007


I'm all for being civil and respectful, but this idea is a Piloh Shitt, as Jamie Oliver would put it.
posted by Devils Slide at 9:07 AM on November 27, 2007


You're a horrible person, frecklefaerie.
posted by Mister_A at 9:08 AM on November 27, 2007


While it is true that positive reinforcement encourages positive behaviour, a lack of negative reinforcement does nothing to discourage negative behaviour. Assholes will continue to act like assholes unless doing so has consequences.

I just realized that my dad could find out about metafilter and sign up for an account without my knowledge, and I'd never know it was him unless he slipped and started asking me how long it had been since I'd changed the oil in my car.
posted by hermitosis at 9:09 AM on November 27, 2007 [2 favorites]


Yeah I was meaning to MeMail you, I removed that comment about someone fucking Paris Hilton with your dick. HTH HAND.

honestly, i thought I was being silly. sorry all around. in my head, it sounded light hearted because I was laughing.
posted by shmegegge at 9:09 AM on November 27, 2007


ha. wrong quote. I was responding to cortex just above.
posted by shmegegge at 9:12 AM on November 27, 2007


I have a bar of soap. Any of you fuckers curse from now on, you're gonna get your mouth washed out with this fucking soap. So shut the fuck up and quit it with the unnecessary vulgarities and the cursing just for the sake of cursing or you're gonna get the fucking soap.
posted by iconomy at 9:14 AM on November 27, 2007


Ha! shmegegge's sockpuppet antics revealed!

But seriously, I thought you were sort of trying to be silly too but failing pretty badly considering that the main argument here has been that the poster didn't really know what was up so much—so over-the-top rawr rawr impression might just come off as really aggressive genuine rawr rawr, pie-ism notwithstanding.

And then I thought, but hey, he's smart, he knows that, and then uncharitably thought you might have had the same reservation but decided to fuck it and go with it, which seemed kinda jerky. And then I called you out on it, and felt like maybe I was being reactionary after that, and then you mispasted and I laughed and goddammit HUGS
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:16 AM on November 27, 2007


That's nice cortex, can we burn some more witches now?
posted by Mister_A at 9:19 AM on November 27, 2007


It's like you just popped out of the woodwork all of a sudden, dressed in a schoolmarm outfit...

And Wolfdog is dusting away, bringing new luster to that wood!
posted by ericb at 9:21 AM on November 27, 2007


"goatsex"?

Flagged as lame 568 times by 3 users
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:23 AM on November 27, 2007


Put another way, in my dreams is where you are all vikings.

And in just a few days, I'll have the hat to match!

(just ordered 2 of these... have always wanted one).
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:24 AM on November 27, 2007


Speak for yourselves, you cynical deriders of the peoples' chosen norm enforcement mechanism. As for the rest of us, we will not soon forget those who scorned the early, voluntary version of the pledge.
posted by kosem at 9:25 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


I like pie as much as the next guy, but if you're going to invoke it, shmeggage: key lime. When I was little I was all Boston Creme (being in Mass., naturally), but then we moved to South Florida and the One True Pie was revealed. Fruit pies are yummy and I really like my wife's strawberry-rhubarb, but there's nothing finer to indulge in on a sweaty summer evening than a fridge-cold slab of grahamy sour sickly sweet key lime goodness with just a dollop of real whipped cream.

(Looks out the window at a sloppy Ontario November.)

Damn.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:26 AM on November 27, 2007


You can ASCII goatse.cx, but can you ASCII a hug?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:26 AM on November 27, 2007


I consider the topic closed

I'm not sure if I would pay attention when a user who writes stuff like this marks my post 'flagged as lame.'
posted by KokuRyu at 9:26 AM on November 27, 2007


so over-the-top rawr rawr impression might just come off as really aggressive genuine rawr rawr, pie-ism notwithstanding.

I always wonder if this is how Cortex speaks in real life.
posted by pinky at 9:27 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Giving snarky answers? That's a pledge violation.
Ad hominem attacks? That's a pledge violation.
Paddling the school canoe? Oh, you better believe that's a pledge violation.
posted by ALongDecember at 9:28 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


A good piece of key lime pie is a magical thing.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:30 AM on November 27, 2007


For the love of god I thought this sockpuppet could be locked away in a drawer for the next few weeks.
posted by Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory at 9:36 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Is this like a pledge to stay chaste before marriage? Do we get lapel buttons?

No button, but we would get to dance with the admin of our choosing at an elaborate ball to the strains of Butterfly Kisses.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:36 AM on November 27, 2007


I always wonder if this is how Cortex speaks in real life.

No, I'm much more articulate on paper.

But really, pretty much, yeah. Ask anyone whose been drunk at a meetup with me. There's a lot more filled-pauses and excited sputtering in real life, though. I'm one of those people who will wave a beer around absentmindedly, spilling it a little because of hand gestures, and say something like "Yes, but, no, see, I-I-I-I-I: look, it's like this..."
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:38 AM on November 27, 2007


Oooh, I choose cortex. He's dreeeeamy.

Also, what is wrong with you people? Pecan Pie is the pie that all other pies look up to. Other pies are just pie, but this is Pie. You see? Pecan Pie gets caps because it's superior.

Also, I'm sorry I attacked your use of the word "inferred".
posted by Mister_A at 9:39 AM on November 27, 2007


i just ran over a shopping cart full of eskimo pies in my chevy suburban.
posted by bruce at 9:42 AM on November 27, 2007


Late to the party. I'll try to make up for that by taking the high road.

Sean, your proposal seems to be rooted in a . . . uh, how shall I put this . . . an optimistic view of human nature and for this reason, I can't support it.

Sorry.
posted by jason's_planet at 9:46 AM on November 27, 2007


You've managed to esscape MeTa this time seanmpuckett, yes with your delicous key lime pie. But next time, we will be ready and you shant escape so easily. BEWHAAHAHAHA!
posted by nola at 9:46 AM on November 27, 2007


I love you guys. That is all.

hey frecklefaerie, kiss my ASCII
posted by Quietgal at 9:53 AM on November 27, 2007


Is that pe-KAHN or PEA-kan? Not that it matters, since lemon icebox pie wins.
posted by Tehanu at 9:59 AM on November 27, 2007


I hate arriving late to the MeTa pile-on threads. It's like the candy bowl is picked over and all that's left are the lime-flavored lollipops and licorice whips.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:01 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


In addition to taking the pledge, we should also wear uniforms. I'm thinking of dark blue or grey coveralls, with a MetaFilter logo and our user number.
posted by fandango_matt at 10:04 AM on November 27, 2007


EXKEWZ ME SUR, DO U HAS A HALL PASS?
posted by katillathehun at 10:06 AM on November 27, 2007


You know who else was fond of conformity and pledges and uniforms?

not a rhetorical question...I really don't know
posted by iconomy at 10:10 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Is that pe-KAHN or PEA-kan?

It's pe-KHAAAAAAAAAAN!
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:14 AM on November 27, 2007


Some highlights, for better or for worse:

This idea is possibly the worst ever expressed in MetaTalk.

No no no no no no no oh god no please no god please no no no no never no.

Bad.

Not just bad, but sanctimonious.

sean, shutup.

Think of this as an "anti-favorite" or "this post sucked."

The kicker, indeed. For fuck's sake, no.

The guy from the Monopoly box chasing you through an endless tunnel. He's got these huge, jagged razors that jut out of his mouth at violent angles. And the whole time, he's shouting, "I'M GOING TO MURDALIZE YOU!!!!! I'M GOING TO MURDALIZE YOU!!!!"

Holy fuck, how did this metatalk post ever come about? Your usernumber says you've been here for years, man! Years! How could you possibly think this was a good idea?

I have a bar of soap

posted by ORthey at 10:14 AM on November 27, 2007


If we have pledges, that's a tacit endorsement of hazing, right?
posted by klangklangston at 10:16 AM on November 27, 2007


My desire for elevated levels of discourse is genuine.
Is it forlorn, as well?


Alas, poor Yorick. I knew him, Horatio...

All joking aside, the idea of a pledge system sounds kind of juvenile. When adults debate with one another in person, someone's bound to say something out-of-line. No one says, "Okay, we're going to talk about politics now. Do you all have your pledge pins? Good. Now, let's begin."

In short, if the "level of discourse" here makes you uncomfortable, this may not be your kind of place.
posted by katillathehun at 10:22 AM on November 27, 2007


Hazing is pointless without the img tag.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:23 AM on November 27, 2007


When I first moved to Portland, I spent a lot of time just hanging out in the park and drawing. One day, I'm sitting there, sketching people as they go past, and something yellow up high, catches my eye. I look and see, it's a sign in a tree, calling to me, saying don't litter. It made me laugh, the sign high up in the tree, the idea that someone who's going to throw their trash on the ground, will first look up in the sky. It seemed a singularly pointless sign. Until now.
posted by nomisxid at 10:25 AM on November 27, 2007


Is that pe-KAHN or PEA-kan?

PEA-kan
posted by Armitage Shanks at 10:27 AM on November 27, 2007

I'm one of those people who will wave a beer around absentmindedly, spilling it a little because of hand gestures, and say something like "Yes, but, no, see, I-I-I-I-I: look, it's like this..."
My people!

Although sadly I tend to spill my beer a lot, not just a little.

I feel that it is incivil of me to slosh my beer around with such enthusiasm. Perhaps I should take the pledge.
posted by winna at 10:31 AM on November 27, 2007


Really? I've always heard "moiduhrize"

Really? I'll have to give another listen—it's been years since I actually watched a cartoon that contained the phrase, so although that's how I hear it in my head I may be misremembering (although Google tells me a lot of people think of it the way I do).

Damn, I was all hungry for key lime pie but then pecan pie was mentioned and now I don't know what I want.
posted by languagehat at 10:49 AM on November 27, 2007


Maybe you can get AskMe to offer you an astrological pie chart.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:52 AM on November 27, 2007


You know who else was fond of conformity and pledges and uniforms?

Niedermeyer?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:58 AM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


In the old Ed Grimley cartoon (NOT WORTH WATCHING) they had a character who said Moidalize, which is always how I've said it.
posted by shmegegge at 11:15 AM on November 27, 2007


Does pumpkin bread count as pie?
posted by shakespeherian at 11:21 AM on November 27, 2007


Ooo, I *love* these things!

"I think it would be pretty smelly if we could take a pledge to poop to this note stupidly by clicking a button or something on our profile page, and if this pledge was indicated by a green booger next to the user name in comments. "
posted by LordSludge at 11:27 AM on November 27, 2007


"little zapper that you can press that will shock the MeFite"

Wait a minute, you mean that hasn't already been deployed? In that case, I must have a short in my laptop. Too bad. The shocks actually kind of 'enhanced' my enjoyment of MetaFilter. On my lap....top.

And why don't the results of lovetragedy's MeFi Survey include pie charts?
posted by wendell at 11:34 AM on November 27, 2007


My mom made three pies this Thanksgiving. She'd picked and frozen some black mulberries last summer, which she used to make two otherworldly pies. I'd never heard of or tasted mulberry pie, and if you haven't either, you absolutely have to give it a try. The thing is, however, you never see mulberries at the supermarket or even green grocer's, so you have to take it upon yourself to raid someone's tree (if you live in the right climate) and pick some yourself.

The other pie was pumpkin, but it had apple butter mixed into the filling. It was pretty damn good too, although the mulberry pies stole the show. Here's the recipe for the applebutter/pumpkin pie (from Paula Dean):

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_32337,00.html
posted by Devils Slide at 11:40 AM on November 27, 2007


In my bad dreams, the Monopoly guy has the King of Town's voice.
posted by mbd1mbd1 at 11:41 AM on November 27, 2007 [2 favorites]


cortex : Maybe respond (civilly!) to the person causing the offense.

Heh, good one.

Oh, wait. You're serious, aren't you?

*puts away torch and pitchfork*

Never mind everyone, the game's been called on account of rain.
posted by quin at 11:47 AM on November 27, 2007


This is such a bad idea I'm not even sure why I opened the thread. The resulting responses were predictable.

Also: Shitcock.
posted by loquacious at 12:03 PM on November 27, 2007


*gets the soap*
posted by iconomy at 12:15 PM on November 27, 2007


Also: Shitcock
+-----------------------------+| PromiseKeepr 2.0 violation! ||                             ||   [Flag] [Ignore] [Move On] |+-----------------------------+
posted by Armitage Shanks at 12:17 PM on November 27, 2007


"My desire for elevated levels of discourse is genuine.
Is it forlorn, as well?
posted by seanmpuckett"

Ah, Sean baby...so sorry.
posted by Cranberry at 12:28 PM on November 27, 2007


Is that pe-KAHN or PEA-kan?

Either is acceptable, but I think below the Mason Dixon Line it's usually pe-KHAN.

I made a pecan pie last week and burned it. I made a pot roast and burned it too. I made a pound cake and it broke coming out of the fancy bundt cake mold. Everything I laid my hands to turned to ashes.
posted by Evangeline at 12:29 PM on November 27, 2007


Right out of her house, asked me what I was doing and told me not to go with her, a history she can be a shame if he gets sick your cleaning it up. He dropped a hot cup of cold lemonade, or a cup of cold lemonade, or a used condom in his sleep in 1999. Richard Manuel died in his heart, he's just, he's just a couple handfuls of absolute cocksuckers. It wouldn't hurt to have the ambiguity of electronic ballots to look through all the hippies cut off all their hair, I don't see the big picture here.
posted by Sailormom at 12:52 PM on November 27, 2007


Chocolate cream pie is the only pie. Unless macaroni and cheese counts as pie.
posted by ardgedee at 12:54 PM on November 27, 2007


Peanut butter pie is the pie to end all pies. Everyone should go home and make this immediately. Then you can all come back and favorite this comment.
posted by Evangeline at 1:03 PM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


seanmpuckett, people above have objected that a pledge would be bad because it's patronizing etc, but the other thing to consider is that a lot of negative-reinforcement mechanisms backfire. Some people love negative attention. If you give them a way to calculate how much of it they're getting, you encourage them to act badly.

Along with the "guidelines not rules mentality", this strikes me as one of the really genius things about Mefi: just about all of the deleting and negative intervention from the mods is quiet and behind-the-scenes, and leaves no traceable trail. If you have a question or comment deleted, it doesn't show up on a "hall of shame" in your user stats. There's no visible negative flagging. This means that perverse people can't get excited by "collecting" negative stats; they can't compete in a quantifiable way for "naughtiest little elf" status. They can only compete for positive stats (favorites) and unquantified conversational reactions (both negative and positive).

I share your desire for good discourse, but I think your proposal would risk making the discourse worse.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:06 PM on November 27, 2007


Also, hello, strawberry-rhubarb?
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:06 PM on November 27, 2007


Yes, strawberry-rhubarb is delicious, but I need the favorites, dammit, so just lay off.
posted by Evangeline at 1:12 PM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm favoriting it sight unseen. I mean, come on, it's peanut butter and pie. How can you go wrong?
posted by Devils Slide at 1:15 PM on November 27, 2007


Thank you, Devils Slide. You won't regret it.
posted by Evangeline at 1:19 PM on November 27, 2007


I looked at the recipe. I'm making it sometime this week. Can't wait!
posted by Devils Slide at 1:20 PM on November 27, 2007


Rhubarb pie is a little edgy for my southern-trained mouth, but put strawberry in it to add a bit more sweet and cut a little bit of the sour and it's right about MMM-MMM. She indulges me once a year with one of these. Oh, and also the peach pies are mmmm-mmmmmmm.

Evangeline, peanut butter pie is good, but I eat so much peanut and peanut-butter products in the course of my regular diet that the taste isn't not much of a treat, like key lime is. Oh, would that key lime was a regular part of my diet. Oh, oh, oh. ooooohhhhh.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:22 PM on November 27, 2007


May I just say, seanmpuckett, that you've taken your ritual thwacking exceedingly well. Have some more pie.
posted by languagehat at 1:30 PM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Mmm... see, maybe this is a north-south thing. I love the plain rhubarb pie, I love the tart apple pie with skins on. Cut me another piece, please, and with more vanilla ice cream to cut the tart.

I love about one bite of chocolate pie, peanut butter pie, pecan pie and the other super-sweeties, but then I need to go sit down.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:37 PM on November 27, 2007


I made this really great vegan chocolate pie last week. I would not have thought that the words "great" "vegan" and "pie" would go together in a sentence like that, much less a true sentence, but there it was. It had chocolate and tofu and kahlua, and not much else, and it was in fact quite tasty. So there you have it: vegan chocolate pie. Made with real vegans.
posted by gingerbeer at 1:38 PM on November 27, 2007


LobsterMitten, I'm going to set aside my differences with you because I like your name so much. It reminds me of a super villain my husband and I created named "Oven Mitt". He's not really that scary. He moves really slowly and if he does catch you, all he can do is sort of paw at you, but the intent is there.
posted by Evangeline at 1:41 PM on November 27, 2007 [6 favorites]


fuck this for a bunch of soldiers
posted by Wilder at 2:08 PM on November 27, 2007


Wilder, care to explain that remark?
posted by Quietgal at 2:29 PM on November 27, 2007


It looks like an anagram.
posted by zebra3 at 2:43 PM on November 27, 2007


I made mulberry pie once, because we had a mulberry tree in our yard. It was amazing. Oh me oh my, mulberry pie! Thanks for the memory, Devils_Slide!
posted by Lynsey at 2:45 PM on November 27, 2007


A Conductible Kissoff Fur Shh Or is an anagram.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 2:59 PM on November 27, 2007


'game of soldiers' maybe?
posted by i_cola at 3:05 PM on November 27, 2007


One of the best ways to support the troops is to fuck things in their name.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 3:11 PM on November 27, 2007


Okay, this is a very neat idea, I just want to tack on a tiny request: when you flag something as a pledge violation, is it possible to have that scream from the Body Snatchers playing in the background?
posted by Krrrlson at 3:12 PM on November 27, 2007


Am I 'outing' myself as Not a REAL Man if I admit I like quiche?

I'm also solidly on in support of Chicken Pot Pie (just not the monstrosity from KFC, OK?), and love the concept of eating pie for an entree before pie for dessert.

And has Lemon Meringue gone totally extinct lately, or what?
posted by wendell at 3:16 PM on November 27, 2007


If you want elevated discussion then leave plenty of on-topic, thoughtful, relevant comments. Engage those who do the same. Ignore those who don't. I think your heart is in the right place but your idea...no. Plenty of us get tired of the assholes but there are already measures in place to deal with them.

There ya go.
posted by wafaa at 3:18 PM on November 27, 2007


I always thought it was "game of cowboys and indians".
posted by Sk4n at 3:33 PM on November 27, 2007


"Forgive them, please, they are doing their "best"."

Like, why does the partner of a verbal abuser stay with the abuser?
"Well, he's trying. At least he doesn't BEAT me."
posted by wafaa at 3:36 PM on November 27, 2007


Way too long, didn't read, but this seems like probably not the best idea I've ever heard. Really. Not. The. Best.

The best idea I've seen here probably involved bacon, but perhaps I'm misremembering that.
posted by exlotuseater at 3:39 PM on November 27, 2007


And has Lemon Meringue gone totally extinct lately, or what?
Yes. I myself came across the last, great, thundering Meringue herd, all foamy peaks, glossy, moving slowly across the open plain in late summer, and... forgive me.
posted by Wolfdog at 3:45 PM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


I hereby confirm that at least some chickens are very fond of tomatoes.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:46 PM on November 27, 2007


If there's anything I like more than a joke so bad it's good, it's a joke so bad it's good that knows it and stylishly bows out in the middle. Well played, Wolfdog (as usual).
posted by Kwine at 4:12 PM on November 27, 2007


And has Lemon Meringue gone totally extinct lately, or what?

It's global warming.

I find it useful to blame global warming for lots of things. Global warming ate my homework. Global warming ruined my relationship. Global warming made me do it.
posted by Evangeline at 4:15 PM on November 27, 2007


Part of the pledge should be:
"I will strive and endeavor not to prattle on at length about fucking pie."
posted by Meatbomb at 4:20 PM on November 27, 2007


i_cola, I think you're right. I think Wilder did mean "game of soldiers", and apparently she was saying "fuck this" or maybe "fuck you". Who knows? Either she was responding to the pledge suggestion or she really hates pie.
posted by Evangeline at 4:23 PM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


Mmmmmm, fucking pie. Do you have a recipe?

Alright, I'm out. No more pie talk.
posted by Evangeline at 4:25 PM on November 27, 2007


I'm not sure but I think Wilder meant to say, Mandar a la soldadesca a hacer algo a punta de carajos, and I agree.
posted by tellurian at 4:28 PM on November 27, 2007


Note to Wendell and Evangeline: Lemon meringue pies have not disappeared. I am a reluctant cook, but I make much admired lemon meringue pies.
The drawback is - I don't really like to cook, but am expected to produce lmp for all parties.
posted by Cranberry at 4:56 PM on November 27, 2007


Note to meatbomb: you don't have any pie, do you?
posted by Cranberry at 4:57 PM on November 27, 2007


I have a piece of sweet potato pie - the last slice - right here with me. YUM.
posted by misskaz at 5:00 PM on November 27, 2007


WTF happened to having a simple place where interesting people would say things about the links that were posted? Why on earth do we have all this frippery of favouriting and mailing and profiling and now silly ideas for communal pledges?

This place is going to become AOL next thing you know.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:37 PM on November 27, 2007 [2 favorites]


I made mulberry pie once, because we had a mulberry tree in our yard. It was amazing. Oh me oh my, mulberry pie! Thanks for the memory, Devils_Slide!

You've been experienced. You have :)

(just not the monstrosity from KFC, OK?)

Are you talking about the "failure pile in a sadness bowl" AKA KFC famous bowls? Here's a highlarious Patton Oswalt bit on the subject:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tfan5MacmsI&feature=related
posted by Devils Slide at 6:03 PM on November 27, 2007


You've got mail!
posted by disclaimer at 7:31 PM on November 27, 2007


AOL: You've got mail!
Metafilter: You've got mail, dumbass!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:49 PM on November 27, 2007


BIG UPS
posted by blenderfish at 8:36 PM on November 27, 2007


You will eat, bye and bye,
In that glorious land above the sky;
Work and pray, live on hay,
You'll get pie in the sky when you die.
posted by Skygazer at 8:53 PM on November 27, 2007


So, everyone disagrees, huh? That's ok, seanmpuckett is used to being SILENCED ALL HIS LIFE.
posted by arcticwoman at 8:57 PM on November 27, 2007


It's true. There's global-warming-level disagreement, here.

I pledge to teach the controversy.
posted by dreamsign at 9:45 PM on November 27, 2007


I took the pledge once but I was back on the sauce the next day.
posted by LarryC at 10:16 PM on November 27, 2007


Teachers deserve strong drink.
posted by Cranberry at 10:27 PM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


just as there is an accounting of excellence.

What?!!

Have you seen some of the horseshit that gets favorited around here?
posted by BigSky at 11:25 PM on November 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


mr_crash_davis: "This idea is possibly the worst ever expressed in MetaTalk.
And there have been a lot of crappy ideas expressed here. Many of them mine.
"
Oh, this is way worse than anything you'ver ever suggested. In fact, it's way worse than anything I've suggested and that's saying something.

iconomy: "*gets the soap*"
How badly do I have to behave to get soaped all over instead of just in the mouth?
posted by dg at 12:20 AM on November 28, 2007


Hmm, that's a bit ironic, isn't it? I appear to have broken the conditions of the pledge while berating the idea itself. Does it still count in MeTa?
posted by dg at 12:51 AM on November 28, 2007


I wonder what bacon chocolate pie would taste like.
posted by needled at 6:27 AM on November 28, 2007


Like awesome, needled, like awesome.

Actually, as much as I hate to say it, I had one of those fancy bacon chocolate bars, and it wasn't all that good.
posted by OmieWise at 6:33 AM on November 28, 2007


I wonder what bacon chocolate pie would taste like.

Probably not as good as bacon chocolate pie and oral sex. Beat that punk.
posted by Skygazer at 6:57 AM on November 28, 2007


And has Lemon Meringue gone totally extinct lately, or what?
Yes. I myself came across the last, great, thundering Meringue herd, all foamy peaks, glossy, moving slowly across the open plain in late summer, and... forgive me.


Nonsense. I ate lemon meringue pie just last Friday. It was cooked by Cranberry my mom. You see, I'm used to getting LEMON MERINGUE ALL MY LIFE.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:08 AM on November 28, 2007


I don't know where you can get a bacon chocolate pie, but if you're in New York, you can go here to get a bacon martini.
posted by Evangeline at 8:04 AM on November 28, 2007


OMG! Now I want lemon meringue pie immediately! Moooooooommmmmmmmm!
posted by Lynsey at 9:59 AM on November 28, 2007


Kirth? Lynsey? Do I know you?
posted by Cranberry at 11:34 AM on November 28, 2007


Probably not. My mom doesn't have a computer. She's the only one who makes those pies for me.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:42 PM on November 28, 2007


My mom sez she'll make me one next time I'm in town. Hope that's soon!
posted by Lynsey at 1:02 PM on November 28, 2007


« Older Meetup nom   |   Podcast Call In Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments