Long live, Metafilter! September 14, 2008 8:07 PM Subscribe
I just wanted to say what a wonderful memorial the David Foster Wallace obit thread has become.
And I would like to commend gerryblog for the excellent post. A lot of obitFilter is about the rush to be first, damn the quality. The post caught my eye and it's how I learned of Wallace's passing - almost in his own words.
Given the subsequent doubles, I am so glad the original post was also the best.
Also, the quality of the discussion in the thread has been outstanding. So many obit threads turn into shit-fights or simply a collection of "." - this has gathered together a lot of links highlighting Wallace's work and many stories of what the writer meant to Mefites.
As callmejay said: "It's days like today that make me realize I love MetaFilter."
And I would like to commend gerryblog for the excellent post. A lot of obitFilter is about the rush to be first, damn the quality. The post caught my eye and it's how I learned of Wallace's passing - almost in his own words.
Given the subsequent doubles, I am so glad the original post was also the best.
Also, the quality of the discussion in the thread has been outstanding. So many obit threads turn into shit-fights or simply a collection of "." - this has gathered together a lot of links highlighting Wallace's work and many stories of what the writer meant to Mefites.
As callmejay said: "It's days like today that make me realize I love MetaFilter."
Sheesh, cant we just take the time to point out good threads?
posted by wheelieman at 8:34 PM on September 14, 2008
posted by wheelieman at 8:34 PM on September 14, 2008
That's interesting, I'm incredibly upset by the news of DFW's passing, and for me reading that thread really only highlighted the inadequacy of our immediate and unfiltered responses to incidents like this. I found it embarrassing and I couldn't bring myself to keep reading it.
I'm glad the people who need or like this get to do it, but I don't think I'll ever understand the value of it.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 8:35 PM on September 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
I'm glad the people who need or like this get to do it, but I don't think I'll ever understand the value of it.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 8:35 PM on September 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
I've never heard of the dude before this. Amazing to think of how someone can have such a huge effect on so many and yet be completely unknown to someone in the same circles.
posted by Eideteker at 8:38 PM on September 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Eideteker at 8:38 PM on September 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Considering that Metafilter might be some people's only venue to share their grief with others who might actually care about this and sympathize, I think calling the thread 'embarassing' is a little crass.
posted by thankyoujohnnyfever at 8:44 PM on September 14, 2008
posted by thankyoujohnnyfever at 8:44 PM on September 14, 2008
That's weird, my "add to favorites" link works just fine.
Seemed inadequate. And there are so many call out threads that are simply to complain about minor things, I thought a bit of praise was called for this time.
posted by crossoverman at 8:47 PM on September 14, 2008
Seemed inadequate. And there are so many call out threads that are simply to complain about minor things, I thought a bit of praise was called for this time.
posted by crossoverman at 8:47 PM on September 14, 2008
Considering that Metafilter might be some people's only venue to share their grief with others who might actually care about this and sympathize, I think calling the thread 'embarassing' is a little crass.
Well, this is MetaTalk, the only appropriate venue for me to discuss my feelings on this matter, crass or otherwise. So I don't mind agreeing to disagree.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 9:01 PM on September 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well, this is MetaTalk, the only appropriate venue for me to discuss my feelings on this matter, crass or otherwise. So I don't mind agreeing to disagree.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 9:01 PM on September 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I agree that this thread fell flat, as do most RIP threads. Posts about grief, no matter how desperate and human, somersaults into redundancy when processed through a communal medium. I felt strangely unmoved when I scrolled down an unribboning line of "." and "FUCK"s and references to his non-fiction essays, even though there was a similar transcript running through my head.
posted by zoomorphic at 9:14 PM on September 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by zoomorphic at 9:14 PM on September 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
I don't feel particularly called to defend those who mourn here so agreeing to disagree is fine. That being said though, it's disingenuous to suggest that you can't possibly comprehend what value there is in collective grieving.
posted by thankyoujohnnyfever at 9:15 PM on September 14, 2008
posted by thankyoujohnnyfever at 9:15 PM on September 14, 2008
I'm glad the people who need or like this get to do it, but I don't think I'll ever understand the value of it.
You really don't understand the value of shared grief? Or the fact that many readers of DFW's work have been able to share anecdotes with each other on the days following his passing?
Btw, I don't think your comment was crass - and Metatalk is the place to say it. But I am interested that you found it embarrassing; I'm not sure I understand that in the least.
posted by crossoverman at 9:18 PM on September 14, 2008
You really don't understand the value of shared grief? Or the fact that many readers of DFW's work have been able to share anecdotes with each other on the days following his passing?
Btw, I don't think your comment was crass - and Metatalk is the place to say it. But I am interested that you found it embarrassing; I'm not sure I understand that in the least.
posted by crossoverman at 9:18 PM on September 14, 2008
I only speak for myself, but it was like a Metafilter version of going to the funeral of someone you cared about and then watching everyone else wail and beat their breasts and tearfully quote the deceased, while you remain frozen in your seat.
posted by zoomorphic at 9:29 PM on September 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by zoomorphic at 9:29 PM on September 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Funerals where people wail and beat their breasts are always more interesting.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:31 PM on September 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:31 PM on September 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
I have been glad to have that thread, inadequate though it's obviously going to be to express any significant portion of the meaning of his work in people's lives. His death feels big, and I'm glad to see other people who feel the same way even if not everybody does, and even if his "meaning" can't be well expressed in thread.
The paradoxes and difficulty of expression and connection shouldn't make us stop trying to express or connect. (sound like a familiar theme?)
It's inadequate but it's a start; the obit period can be better than nothing when words fail because it communicates at least that we're all in the same room at the wake together.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:58 PM on September 14, 2008
The paradoxes and difficulty of expression and connection shouldn't make us stop trying to express or connect. (sound like a familiar theme?)
It's inadequate but it's a start; the obit period can be better than nothing when words fail because it communicates at least that we're all in the same room at the wake together.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:58 PM on September 14, 2008
I found the thread unusually comforting because of personal circumstance. I've only just skimmed some of it becuase I'm at work at a completely full hospital in Houston during this damn stormy weather going on 4 days straight. This is my 3rd night to sleep on a cold hard stretcher for a few hours until it's time to work again. Everyone is exhausted which we try to hide from the poor patients who are much sicker than we can even imagine. We've all been locked in here behind huge metal flood gates. Running water has been occassionally available. 2 days we couldn't shower or flush toilets. Thank GOD the electricity never went out (other hospitals weren't so lucky). Phones only work occassionally so I'm isolated here away from friends and family. Isolated completely in the culture of my work at the hospital during a crisis.
And then on some free time I find this thread about a writer I enjoyed reading for a long time who died. I hadn't read anything of his since IJ which was at least 10 years ago. The first book I read of his was 10 years before that. A younger me read it. A non-nurse me. A 'me' I miss sometimes but have trouble supporting in this current busy life. And I was struck by his death. Imediately saddened. I was so glad to read a community of people felt similar. I was so comforted to read comments so much more elloquent than what I could express. I'm sure someone in this hospital is also a DFW fan, but there's no time to talk about books and writers or anything outside of these walls. And that thread, in all it's pain, took me out of here for just a little while. And somehow that makes me able to keep doing this job right now.
I'm expressing this poorly. I don't mean for it to sound like poor me I'm a miserable beaten overworked employee. But I wasn't alone in finding out that sad sad news because of that thread and that helped me a lot in a way I never expected. I wanted to reach through the internet and embrace so many of the people in there.
posted by dog food sugar at 10:37 PM on September 14, 2008 [8 favorites]
And then on some free time I find this thread about a writer I enjoyed reading for a long time who died. I hadn't read anything of his since IJ which was at least 10 years ago. The first book I read of his was 10 years before that. A younger me read it. A non-nurse me. A 'me' I miss sometimes but have trouble supporting in this current busy life. And I was struck by his death. Imediately saddened. I was so glad to read a community of people felt similar. I was so comforted to read comments so much more elloquent than what I could express. I'm sure someone in this hospital is also a DFW fan, but there's no time to talk about books and writers or anything outside of these walls. And that thread, in all it's pain, took me out of here for just a little while. And somehow that makes me able to keep doing this job right now.
I'm expressing this poorly. I don't mean for it to sound like poor me I'm a miserable beaten overworked employee. But I wasn't alone in finding out that sad sad news because of that thread and that helped me a lot in a way I never expected. I wanted to reach through the internet and embrace so many of the people in there.
posted by dog food sugar at 10:37 PM on September 14, 2008 [8 favorites]
My comment on DFW's suicide consisted of the word 'fuck'. I really couldn't and can't think of what else to say. This is unusual for me. When Vonnegut died, when Hunter S Thompson blew his head off, when Carlin died, to pick a few of the recently-deceased artists who've been important to me over the years, I had a few words that I thought seemed like words I might want to say. Right now, not so much.
Unless you count these words here, which are a start, I guess. I guess this is what it feels like to start getting old.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:39 PM on September 14, 2008
Unless you count these words here, which are a start, I guess. I guess this is what it feels like to start getting old.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:39 PM on September 14, 2008
I've never heard of the dude before this. Amazing to think of how someone can have such a huge effect on so many and yet be completely unknown to someone in the same circles.
I have to admit, it is amazing that someone in the circle doesn't know everyone or everything.
posted by sluglicker at 11:49 PM on September 14, 2008
I have to admit, it is amazing that someone in the circle doesn't know everyone or everything.
posted by sluglicker at 11:49 PM on September 14, 2008
I'm into passing my wishes for happiness and praises for beauty on to someone living, so I never find enough to say in obit threads, but I also don't think simply favoriting them makes sense for those inspired. On the third hand, touting what gems WE are at a funeral isn't that awesome, either.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:21 AM on September 15, 2008
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:21 AM on September 15, 2008
(And my introduction to the man is here. I'm looking forward to it.)
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:24 AM on September 15, 2008
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:24 AM on September 15, 2008
I found the attempts to write in DFW's style a bit weird. But appreciated the links to his other, shorter, easier-to-finish-reading pieces of prose. Made me want to attempt to finish my copy of IJ again.
And dog food sugar's comment was moving too.
posted by nihraguk at 2:06 AM on September 15, 2008
And dog food sugar's comment was moving too.
posted by nihraguk at 2:06 AM on September 15, 2008
I guess this is what it feels like to start getting old.
And it just keeps getting faster and faster. Everyone you ever respected, all your heroes and leaders, all start dropping like flies. And then YOU die.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:15 AM on September 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
And it just keeps getting faster and faster. Everyone you ever respected, all your heroes and leaders, all start dropping like flies. And then YOU die.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:15 AM on September 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Jesus, meatbomb, now I feel even older, since you're a year younger than I am. But, shit, you're absolutely correct.
posted by maxwelton at 3:19 AM on September 15, 2008
posted by maxwelton at 3:19 AM on September 15, 2008
If you knew the guy and are grief-stricken, it'll be a memorable thread; if you're untouched by his loss, the thread's kind of boring and mundane. That's how grief works. You really only understand it when you're inside it.
posted by Malor at 3:21 AM on September 15, 2008
posted by Malor at 3:21 AM on September 15, 2008
Hey, thanks for reminding me, Meatbomb. I'd almost forgotten that in the intervening couple of hours.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:23 AM on September 15, 2008
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:23 AM on September 15, 2008
I never heard of dude either. I always thought that RIP threads on MeFi was so that people could have a "." race.
I also don't understand feeling grief for someone you didn't actually know, even if you felt like you knew him/her by their work. I guess people cried for Diana and JFK though, and I do admit that my "give a shit" filter is kind of broken.
I sort of view this as another thread where people say boo hoo and then go on about their daily lives, without actually pausing to think about what they can do to prevent another tortured artist/author/whatever from giving up, and somehow make it about themselves.
I do admit that's a dick standpoint, though.
posted by TomMelee at 5:50 AM on September 15, 2008
I also don't understand feeling grief for someone you didn't actually know, even if you felt like you knew him/her by their work. I guess people cried for Diana and JFK though, and I do admit that my "give a shit" filter is kind of broken.
I sort of view this as another thread where people say boo hoo and then go on about their daily lives, without actually pausing to think about what they can do to prevent another tortured artist/author/whatever from giving up, and somehow make it about themselves.
I do admit that's a dick standpoint, though.
posted by TomMelee at 5:50 AM on September 15, 2008
You're older than you've ever been
And now you're even older
And now you're even older
And now you're even older
You're older than you've ever been
And now you're even older...
...and now you're older still.
- TMBG
posted by Shepherd at 5:50 AM on September 15, 2008
And now you're even older
And now you're even older
And now you're even older
You're older than you've ever been
And now you're even older...
...and now you're older still.
- TMBG
posted by Shepherd at 5:50 AM on September 15, 2008
Note: starting a thread pointing out a thread that you like is a tacit invitation for people to tell you why that thread sucks. Fact of life.
If you like something on MetaFilter hide it, hide it far away.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:06 AM on September 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you like something on MetaFilter hide it, hide it far away.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:06 AM on September 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
I sort of view this as another thread where people say boo hoo and then go on about their daily lives, without actually pausing to think about what they can do to prevent another tortured artist/author/whatever from giving up, and somehow make it about themselves. I do admit that's a dick standpoint, though.
It's not so much as a dick standpoint as it is incredibly presumptuous about everyone else on MeFi. I mean if that's the way you handle the death of people you didn't know personally, that's fine, do what you want. However we've all been on MeFi long enough to know that people handle the death of folks that wind up the subject of obit threads in very different ways. You have no idea what people will do with their day, or how DFW may have changed their lives.
Me personally, I'm going to get in touch with my depressed friends and remind them that I love them. See, now I'm making this thread all about me.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:01 AM on September 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
It's not so much as a dick standpoint as it is incredibly presumptuous about everyone else on MeFi. I mean if that's the way you handle the death of people you didn't know personally, that's fine, do what you want. However we've all been on MeFi long enough to know that people handle the death of folks that wind up the subject of obit threads in very different ways. You have no idea what people will do with their day, or how DFW may have changed their lives.
Me personally, I'm going to get in touch with my depressed friends and remind them that I love them. See, now I'm making this thread all about me.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:01 AM on September 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
The thing is, grief is really trite, especially when seen from the outside. Even more so when it's about someone who you didn't know personally but who nonetheless touched your life in an intense way. So yeah, the outpouring of grief might seems stupid or whatever. But so what? If you don't give a shit you just don't. Why be embarrassed about the way humanity is trite and stupid when faced with the shocking and unexplainable? Or feel the need to point out the inherent narcissism of mourning?
Anyway, lest this be infinitely recursive... I have been really happy about the thread, partially because when my husband got up yesterday I was sort of crying and I said "David Foster Wallace died" and he said "who?" So it was nice to see that others were touched by his writing in similar ways as I was.
posted by miss tea at 7:14 AM on September 15, 2008
Anyway, lest this be infinitely recursive... I have been really happy about the thread, partially because when my husband got up yesterday I was sort of crying and I said "David Foster Wallace died" and he said "who?" So it was nice to see that others were touched by his writing in similar ways as I was.
posted by miss tea at 7:14 AM on September 15, 2008
I was on my honeymoon until yesterday, away from internet, and I can't believe that I had two days of unadulterated fun without knowing about Wallace's death. I catch up on old threads when I've been away but I can't get myself to go there now and post, days late and hundreds of comments in. I feel like I've missed his funeral.
posted by Kwine at 7:23 AM on September 15, 2008
posted by Kwine at 7:23 AM on September 15, 2008
Funerals where people wail and beat their breasts are always more interesting.
Funerals where people whale, then eat the breasts, are even MORE interesting.
My GF told me the news yesterday, and I tried to read that thread, but it was just way too much for me to take. It'd probably be better now, but I'm at work and don't want to risk it in case it gets to me. I was one of about 3 MeFites who were in the audience for the Kenyon '05 address, and to see it pointed at as some sort of harbinger is just awful. I'd be lying if I said I was anywhere close to being able to deal with this news.
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:25 AM on September 15, 2008
Funerals where people whale, then eat the breasts, are even MORE interesting.
My GF told me the news yesterday, and I tried to read that thread, but it was just way too much for me to take. It'd probably be better now, but I'm at work and don't want to risk it in case it gets to me. I was one of about 3 MeFites who were in the audience for the Kenyon '05 address, and to see it pointed at as some sort of harbinger is just awful. I'd be lying if I said I was anywhere close to being able to deal with this news.
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:25 AM on September 15, 2008
I also don't understand feeling grief for someone you didn't actually know, even if you felt like you knew him/her by their work. I guess people cried for Diana and JFK though, and I do admit that my "give a shit" filter is kind of broken.
I sort of view this as another thread where people say boo hoo and then go on about their daily lives, without actually pausing to think about what they can do to prevent another tortured artist/author/whatever from giving up, and somehow make it about themselves.
posted by TomMelee at 5:50 AM on September 15
You know, that's exactly how I felt about the obit threads with people sharing their grief. "Who gives a shit? I don't know these people. You don't know them." And then Wallace killed himself and I realized "oh, fuck: that's what it's like."
It was a grief as real as any I'd ever felt. And I tell you this: I will never shit in a obit thread again, not even if it's for both Cheney and Rove on the same day.
You're welcome to disagree and say "caring about stuff is faggy," of course, and I encourage you and other people to do so in this thread instead of the one that has become a valuable resource of Wallace stories and anecdotes and data.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:46 AM on September 15, 2008 [6 favorites]
I sort of view this as another thread where people say boo hoo and then go on about their daily lives, without actually pausing to think about what they can do to prevent another tortured artist/author/whatever from giving up, and somehow make it about themselves.
posted by TomMelee at 5:50 AM on September 15
You know, that's exactly how I felt about the obit threads with people sharing their grief. "Who gives a shit? I don't know these people. You don't know them." And then Wallace killed himself and I realized "oh, fuck: that's what it's like."
It was a grief as real as any I'd ever felt. And I tell you this: I will never shit in a obit thread again, not even if it's for both Cheney and Rove on the same day.
You're welcome to disagree and say "caring about stuff is faggy," of course, and I encourage you and other people to do so in this thread instead of the one that has become a valuable resource of Wallace stories and anecdotes and data.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:46 AM on September 15, 2008 [6 favorites]
Jessamyn--I think it's all about priorities. I'm thinking back to the story about the kid who was terribly abused and most posts were zomgsystemsux, and I'm thinking back to my own ask post after my friend took his own life and everyone's incredibly compassionate responses, you've probably noticed that my canned response to ZOMG filter is to challenge people to make it stop.
While I realize fully that everyone deals with grief in his or her own way, and I'm sure there are some folks who will seriously go "this is the day I step out of the rat race and actually start giving a shit and working to make this a better place", but I think there are also people who will do more of the "boo tortured artist/misunderstood/oh look something shiny"--which, I believe, is the Modern American Way of Dealing with Grief (tm). I would never say that everyone does that, and certainly not The Enlightened Minds of MeFi. I didn't mean to say that everyone in that thread would forget in 20 minutes.
And OptimusChyme---I wouldn't ever say caring about stuff is faggy? Hello? I'm the guy who always says you should care more. I'm broken though. I care because suffering is unacceptable, unnecessary, and unreasonable; I tend to wonder more about the potential of the life lost than to actually feel grief. I've never "Shit in an obit thread" and don't intend to start now. I'll just go on not understanding it, call me BPD if you like.
posted by TomMelee at 8:03 AM on September 15, 2008
While I realize fully that everyone deals with grief in his or her own way, and I'm sure there are some folks who will seriously go "this is the day I step out of the rat race and actually start giving a shit and working to make this a better place", but I think there are also people who will do more of the "boo tortured artist/misunderstood/oh look something shiny"--which, I believe, is the Modern American Way of Dealing with Grief (tm). I would never say that everyone does that, and certainly not The Enlightened Minds of MeFi. I didn't mean to say that everyone in that thread would forget in 20 minutes.
And OptimusChyme---I wouldn't ever say caring about stuff is faggy? Hello? I'm the guy who always says you should care more. I'm broken though. I care because suffering is unacceptable, unnecessary, and unreasonable; I tend to wonder more about the potential of the life lost than to actually feel grief. I've never "Shit in an obit thread" and don't intend to start now. I'll just go on not understanding it, call me BPD if you like.
posted by TomMelee at 8:03 AM on September 15, 2008
The thing is, grief is really trite, especially when seen from the outside.
"Sure, it's all been said before, but as I try to explain to Loren, all real emotions have been felt millions of times. Nothing sincere is original. trite is basic, and if your emotions are basic you relate to trite." - Tim Sandlin, Western Swing.
posted by jonmc at 8:17 AM on September 15, 2008
"Sure, it's all been said before, but as I try to explain to Loren, all real emotions have been felt millions of times. Nothing sincere is original. trite is basic, and if your emotions are basic you relate to trite." - Tim Sandlin, Western Swing.
posted by jonmc at 8:17 AM on September 15, 2008
you've probably noticed that my canned response to ZOMG filter is to challenge people to make it stop.
Totally hear you there, that's uually my response to Burning Man ZOMG talk. "Hey if you enjoy this so much, why don't you try to make the rest of your life like this every day?" Not that I have any real disdain for Burning Man people, just that I think for a lot of them, they'd be saying it was the only time they felt that they were being real and I just thought that one week out of 52 wasn't enough. Thanks for the additional explanation, it makes more sense.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:57 AM on September 15, 2008
Totally hear you there, that's uually my response to Burning Man ZOMG talk. "Hey if you enjoy this so much, why don't you try to make the rest of your life like this every day?" Not that I have any real disdain for Burning Man people, just that I think for a lot of them, they'd be saying it was the only time they felt that they were being real and I just thought that one week out of 52 wasn't enough. Thanks for the additional explanation, it makes more sense.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:57 AM on September 15, 2008
Totally hear you there, that's uually my response to Burning Man ZOMG talk. "Hey if you enjoy this so much, why don't you try to make the rest of your life like this every day?"
AUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHH!!
*runs for the hills*
posted by jonmc at 10:02 AM on September 15, 2008
AUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHH!!
*runs for the hills*
posted by jonmc at 10:02 AM on September 15, 2008
At the time of writing, 114 appearances of "fuck" or "fucking" in 433 comments there (four of them mine). That's significantly less than I expected - reading it, it felt like every second comment was essentially "fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck".
Which is not to say that the thread wasn't both heartbreaking and uplifting, because it was frequently both.
posted by flashboy at 10:27 AM on September 15, 2008
Which is not to say that the thread wasn't both heartbreaking and uplifting, because it was frequently both.
posted by flashboy at 10:27 AM on September 15, 2008
I also don't understand feeling grief for someone you didn't actually know, even if you felt like you knew him/her by their work.
Metafilter has been the only place I have found other DFW readers, and there have been a few conversations about him in past years I've enjoyed and learned from. The thread is as much appreciation as grief (my reactions are primarily excerpts), and I like that people here who appreciate him are open enough to share it in whichever way they feel appropriate. If you don't like it, walk on by.
And I can't say if it is like this with other writers, because DFW is the only one I've responded this way to consistently, but it's not simply about knowing him through his work--because it's not simply his work. It's spending hours with this guy in your head, interacting with him and his ideas. I'm not one of those people who will ever have the intelligence to understand every level he was working on and every shade of his work (which I actually like about DFW, because there will always be something to discover), but I felt like he took me by the hand and invited me along anyway; and he did it with his own voice (even when he was doing someone else's voice). DFW wrote about so many different things, but no matter what the subject, I always got that he was writing about himself. Added to the fact that (for me, anyway) he had the ability to express those anxieties and curiosities about life that you thought only you had, or at least had never seen anyone else dig into, yeah, it's not surprising that the loyal reader would feel close. (And that's not even considering the more mechanical aspects of this guy's incredible talent, which, if you fall in love with great sentences, is not insignificant.)
posted by troybob at 10:56 AM on September 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Metafilter has been the only place I have found other DFW readers, and there have been a few conversations about him in past years I've enjoyed and learned from. The thread is as much appreciation as grief (my reactions are primarily excerpts), and I like that people here who appreciate him are open enough to share it in whichever way they feel appropriate. If you don't like it, walk on by.
And I can't say if it is like this with other writers, because DFW is the only one I've responded this way to consistently, but it's not simply about knowing him through his work--because it's not simply his work. It's spending hours with this guy in your head, interacting with him and his ideas. I'm not one of those people who will ever have the intelligence to understand every level he was working on and every shade of his work (which I actually like about DFW, because there will always be something to discover), but I felt like he took me by the hand and invited me along anyway; and he did it with his own voice (even when he was doing someone else's voice). DFW wrote about so many different things, but no matter what the subject, I always got that he was writing about himself. Added to the fact that (for me, anyway) he had the ability to express those anxieties and curiosities about life that you thought only you had, or at least had never seen anyone else dig into, yeah, it's not surprising that the loyal reader would feel close. (And that's not even considering the more mechanical aspects of this guy's incredible talent, which, if you fall in love with great sentences, is not insignificant.)
posted by troybob at 10:56 AM on September 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
If you don't appreciate him, his Gawker obit thread is actually civil, respectful, & full of mourning, if that tells you anything about him.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:38 PM on September 15, 2008
posted by Pronoiac at 12:38 PM on September 15, 2008
I suddenly understand why I've felt like an alien all my life. I thought everyone had empathy, could put themselves in anyone's place, could understand, just with the information and short reflection or visceral, immediate lightning strike of awareness what something or someone else was like or why it matters.
And it only took me 31 years. I've felt alone and awash and terrified of it every single day, and only now, because of this tragic event and the outpourings of emotion starkly painted against the "You don't know this guy, WTF?" do I finally, finally grok the fullness of it all.
Thank you, Mefi and Mefites. I sometimes hate you, much as I often hate myself, but nothing and no one is perfect. Thank you for driving it home.
Onward and Upward.
posted by SaintCynr at 12:40 PM on September 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
And it only took me 31 years. I've felt alone and awash and terrified of it every single day, and only now, because of this tragic event and the outpourings of emotion starkly painted against the "You don't know this guy, WTF?" do I finally, finally grok the fullness of it all.
Thank you, Mefi and Mefites. I sometimes hate you, much as I often hate myself, but nothing and no one is perfect. Thank you for driving it home.
Onward and Upward.
posted by SaintCynr at 12:40 PM on September 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
My situation was similar to miss tea's: I was up late after my SO had already gone to bed, and I was browsing a blog which mentioned DFW's death. The first place I went was Metafilter (really this is the first time I've cared about an obit thread on MeFi), because I knew there would be people there who would understand how this made me feel. I read the thread for a while and then went back to bed and woke up my SO because I was very upset. I said to him "Sweetie, David Foster Wallace is dead." And he said "who?" And that made me realize that I don't really have that many friends in real life who relate to quote-serious-unquote literature in the same way I do. We talked for a while about suicide in our families of origin, and how we felt when Kurt Cobain died, so I was able to process that part of my feelings, but I had a hard time expressing what it meant that I would never be able to expect a new book or essay from someone whose work had had a big impact on me over the years. I'm really glad that at least I have access to an online community where I can still read and talk about literature, who will understand how I feel about things like this.
posted by matildaben at 1:47 PM on September 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by matildaben at 1:47 PM on September 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't get the people who claim not to understand empathy. I put that in the same boat as the tired old comment, "why are you getting so upset? it's just the internet."
What the fuck ITS JUST THE INTERNET?? it's interaction between human beings. Who gives a shit if it's on a screen and not in person. it's life. If you don't get passionate and sometimes happy and sometimes furious about it just because it's on the internet, I think you're doing it wrong.
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:37 PM on September 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
What the fuck ITS JUST THE INTERNET?? it's interaction between human beings. Who gives a shit if it's on a screen and not in person. it's life. If you don't get passionate and sometimes happy and sometimes furious about it just because it's on the internet, I think you're doing it wrong.
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:37 PM on September 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
That said, I never had much respect for Wallace's work when he was alive. I have some very specific reasons for that opinion and I'm not going to back away from them now. But now is not the time to discuss them.
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:39 PM on September 15, 2008
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:39 PM on September 15, 2008
Regarding empathy:
I live a life and work a job where I'm surrounded by horrible things every day, but where I get to occasionally turn something horrible into something beautiful. Life is visceral, raw, unfettered, and open entirely to your own interpretation. I feel little empathy because I feel little sympathy---rather I've got a strong sense of right and equity. I've given up trying to find justification for suffering, and would rather focus my attention on combating their roots; it's not about being tough or about not caring.
I also believe that life is a serious of equal opposites---where there is life in death and opportunity in misfortune. For me, the fix is paramount to the emotional attachment to the problem---because suffering and sadness are as infinite as we allow them to be.
To quote Ani: "I fight with love, I laugh with rage. You gotta live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change."
posted by TomMelee at 8:54 PM on September 15, 2008
I live a life and work a job where I'm surrounded by horrible things every day, but where I get to occasionally turn something horrible into something beautiful. Life is visceral, raw, unfettered, and open entirely to your own interpretation. I feel little empathy because I feel little sympathy---rather I've got a strong sense of right and equity. I've given up trying to find justification for suffering, and would rather focus my attention on combating their roots; it's not about being tough or about not caring.
I also believe that life is a serious of equal opposites---where there is life in death and opportunity in misfortune. For me, the fix is paramount to the emotional attachment to the problem---because suffering and sadness are as infinite as we allow them to be.
To quote Ani: "I fight with love, I laugh with rage. You gotta live light enough to see the humor and long enough to see some change."
posted by TomMelee at 8:54 PM on September 15, 2008
I was comforted by the thread. Though I really wanted to scream and kick and spit at the fuckers who felt compelled to use footnotes.
It was a grief as real as any I'd ever felt. And I tell you this: I will never shit in a obit thread again, not even if it's for both Cheney and Rove on the same day.
Lies. But if not, don't worry; I'll crap for two.
posted by fleacircus at 1:24 AM on September 16, 2008
It was a grief as real as any I'd ever felt. And I tell you this: I will never shit in a obit thread again, not even if it's for both Cheney and Rove on the same day.
Lies. But if not, don't worry; I'll crap for two.
posted by fleacircus at 1:24 AM on September 16, 2008
We've now had four obit-filter threads in the last 24 hours. Can we please change the color of the front page to black?
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 5:52 AM on September 18, 2008
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 5:52 AM on September 18, 2008
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posted by dhammond at 8:29 PM on September 14, 2008 [1 favorite]