This thread is a good example of someone itching for a holy war. January 24, 2002 8:09 PM Subscribe
This thread is a good example of someone itching for a holy war. Is it necessary to deride people's religious beliefs every time someone mentions God?
davis:
the thread could have been worded much more poorly than it was, if that's any consolation. the only problem i had has already been mentioned.
posted by moz at 9:31 PM on January 24, 2002
the thread could have been worded much more poorly than it was, if that's any consolation. the only problem i had has already been mentioned.
posted by moz at 9:31 PM on January 24, 2002
Few months ago I accidently stepped on a huge bull snake (looks like a rattlesnake)...scared the hell out of me, but I yelled real loud and it moved on.
posted by Mack Twain at 9:33 PM on January 24, 2002
posted by Mack Twain at 9:33 PM on January 24, 2002
[ Is it necessary to deride people's religious beliefs every time someone mentions God?]
That seems to depend on whether or not you share them.
posted by revbrian at 3:38 AM on January 25, 2002
That seems to depend on whether or not you share them.
posted by revbrian at 3:38 AM on January 25, 2002
I find it funny that people react to overzealous evangelists be becoming overzealous atheists.
I find that I myself have started to become just that at times, so I pause to say a pray - never does any good though.
posted by Mick at 5:54 AM on January 25, 2002
I find that I myself have started to become just that at times, so I pause to say a pray - never does any good though.
posted by Mick at 5:54 AM on January 25, 2002
The original post didn't strike me as derisive until viewed in light of the reaction to it. It seemed a straightforward comment on hypocrisy.
Although not a new observation, I often find myself shaking my head that God, Allah, the American Way, the Aliens who Founded the Earth...whomever...always get credited with the good stuff and sort of ignored when it comes time to dole out the blame. To make a tasteless example, I saw several survivors of the September attacks expressing similar, pious, thankful sentiments but not one casting heavenly aspersions for causing the problem.
Now, flor flogging a dead horse, I can see complaining...
posted by umberto at 5:55 AM on January 25, 2002
Although not a new observation, I often find myself shaking my head that God, Allah, the American Way, the Aliens who Founded the Earth...whomever...always get credited with the good stuff and sort of ignored when it comes time to dole out the blame. To make a tasteless example, I saw several survivors of the September attacks expressing similar, pious, thankful sentiments but not one casting heavenly aspersions for causing the problem.
Now, flor flogging a dead horse, I can see complaining...
posted by umberto at 5:55 AM on January 25, 2002
Is it God's fault that some people choose evil?
Is it God's fault that my husband drinks nasty tasting root beer while he bemoans the fact I like tomatoes and onions?
If God smote osama bin ladin before sept ll, he would have had to smite me for what I was thinking when I was mad at my husband yesterday..........since none of US walks on water let's all be grateful for any mercies we are shown, ok?
posted by bunnyfire at 6:06 AM on January 25, 2002
Is it God's fault that my husband drinks nasty tasting root beer while he bemoans the fact I like tomatoes and onions?
If God smote osama bin ladin before sept ll, he would have had to smite me for what I was thinking when I was mad at my husband yesterday..........since none of US walks on water let's all be grateful for any mercies we are shown, ok?
posted by bunnyfire at 6:06 AM on January 25, 2002
It seems to me that there are times when *some* level of religious argument is acceptable (as long as it's done politely). I think it was somewhat inappropriate in that thread, since the bus in question was from a religious school. Personally, I'm not offended at all by people who talk about their religion in a personal fashion but it does tend to bother me when people post as though we all believe (or should believe) the same way they do. Saying "I thank God" is a whole different thing, IMHO, than saying "We should all thank God". One is an expression of your own personal beliefs, the other comes off as at best insensitive to others' beliefs (or lack thereof) and at worst proselytizing or lecturing. It's none of my business what you believe, but equally, it's none of your business what I believe, or don't.
posted by biscotti at 9:16 AM on January 25, 2002
posted by biscotti at 9:16 AM on January 25, 2002
...he would have had to smite me for what I was thinking...
I agree that it does no good to get hot and bothered when religious people express beliefs, but when you say stuff like that above it's awfully hard not to respond by saying if there is a god and he would smite someone for a thought, I want no part of anybody's religion. Just saying smote and smite feels like living in some kind of fairy tale.
posted by chrismc at 10:06 AM on January 25, 2002
I agree that it does no good to get hot and bothered when religious people express beliefs, but when you say stuff like that above it's awfully hard not to respond by saying if there is a god and he would smite someone for a thought, I want no part of anybody's religion. Just saying smote and smite feels like living in some kind of fairy tale.
posted by chrismc at 10:06 AM on January 25, 2002
and just what was it I said that made God look so bad? Do you like root beer or something?
posted by bunnyfire at 10:48 AM on January 25, 2002
posted by bunnyfire at 10:48 AM on January 25, 2002
It just occured to me that smitten (as in by love) is the past tense of smite. Getting a good smote on doesn't have to feel bad, to the smittee.
posted by dness2 at 11:33 AM on January 25, 2002
posted by dness2 at 11:33 AM on January 25, 2002
Personally, I'm not offended at all by people who talk about their religion in a personal fashion but it does tend to bother me when people post as though we all believe (or should believe) the same way they do.
If posts that have a tacit or overt implication that you should agree with the poster are offensive.. man, I dunno what to say. Seems like a good portion of all posts in a given thread on Metafilter seem to have that feature. When it comes to subjects other than religion it's just considered a weak debating technique--maybe the mark of an unenlightened, unworthy intellect or something--but certainly not something you get called into MeTa for.
Double standard? Maybe, but I suppose religion is a touchier subject than most. On the other hand, it could just be that people will use any excuse..
posted by Hildago at 12:00 PM on January 25, 2002
If posts that have a tacit or overt implication that you should agree with the poster are offensive.. man, I dunno what to say. Seems like a good portion of all posts in a given thread on Metafilter seem to have that feature. When it comes to subjects other than religion it's just considered a weak debating technique--maybe the mark of an unenlightened, unworthy intellect or something--but certainly not something you get called into MeTa for.
Double standard? Maybe, but I suppose religion is a touchier subject than most. On the other hand, it could just be that people will use any excuse..
posted by Hildago at 12:00 PM on January 25, 2002
I can't speak for bunnyfire, but I think her point was that if God were to eliminate all evil, he'd have to eliminate all human beings, including all the posters to this thread. Unless someone here can claim to have never hurt anyone else (physically, emotionally, etc), of course.
Thus, to a Christian, it is better that some evil occurs on earth, but with the opportunity to go to Heaven, than for God to eliminate all evil (for reason given above).
posted by eoz at 5:02 PM on January 25, 2002
Thus, to a Christian, it is better that some evil occurs on earth, but with the opportunity to go to Heaven, than for God to eliminate all evil (for reason given above).
posted by eoz at 5:02 PM on January 25, 2002
if God were to eliminate all evil, he'd have to eliminate all human beings
why couldn't he just eliminate natural disaster and disease though? That's the cause of most heartache. Fine, let humans work out human problems - but I don't see how god could consider it fair to leave the imperfections of nature for us, too.
posted by mdn at 5:27 PM on January 26, 2002
why couldn't he just eliminate natural disaster and disease though? That's the cause of most heartache. Fine, let humans work out human problems - but I don't see how god could consider it fair to leave the imperfections of nature for us, too.
posted by mdn at 5:27 PM on January 26, 2002
I don't see how god could consider it fair to leave the imperfections of nature for us, too.
That's all because adam & eve ate the forbidden fruit. We'd have all been sat pretty in the garden of eden, if they'd just stuck to bananas like they were told.
posted by walrus at 2:32 AM on January 27, 2002
That's all because adam & eve ate the forbidden fruit. We'd have all been sat pretty in the garden of eden, if they'd just stuck to bananas like they were told.
posted by walrus at 2:32 AM on January 27, 2002
Is it necessary to deride people's religious beliefs
Is it necessary to question people's political beliefs? Especially nowadays with the two (political and religious beliefs) having become inseparable in many cases?
I doubt that anyone would argue that unfettered religion is anything but dangerous just as unfettered politics is dangerous. Between muslim terrorists (9/11), christian terrorists (Hobeika), right-wing terrorists (Otto Nuss) and socialist terrorists (SLA), have any other belief systems been represented lately in the (threatened) killing of civilians?
posted by mischief at 5:32 AM on January 27, 2002
Is it necessary to question people's political beliefs? Especially nowadays with the two (political and religious beliefs) having become inseparable in many cases?
I doubt that anyone would argue that unfettered religion is anything but dangerous just as unfettered politics is dangerous. Between muslim terrorists (9/11), christian terrorists (Hobeika), right-wing terrorists (Otto Nuss) and socialist terrorists (SLA), have any other belief systems been represented lately in the (threatened) killing of civilians?
posted by mischief at 5:32 AM on January 27, 2002
Are you saying that people like ME are dangerous????
posted by bunnyfire at 4:10 PM on January 27, 2002
posted by bunnyfire at 4:10 PM on January 27, 2002
A similar thread.
I suppose us Christian's should be up and ready for all that persecution though :-)
posted by nedrichards at 11:23 AM on January 28, 2002
I suppose us Christian's should be up and ready for all that persecution though :-)
posted by nedrichards at 11:23 AM on January 28, 2002
Not to attack or anything, but your most identifiable icon is a hippy stapled to some wood.
You're pretty much begging for persecution.
posted by dong_resin at 11:36 AM on January 28, 2002
You're pretty much begging for persecution.
posted by dong_resin at 11:36 AM on January 28, 2002
Whoops.
posted by dong_resin at 12:32 PM on January 28, 2002
posted by dong_resin at 12:32 PM on January 28, 2002
Ain't nothin worse than a crucified patchouli stanker. Less'n it's a dyslexic crucified patchouli stanker.
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:22 PM on January 28, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:22 PM on January 28, 2002
Ain't nothin worse than a crucified patchouli stanker. Less'n it's a dyslexic crucified patchouli stanker.
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:26 PM on January 28, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:26 PM on January 28, 2002
Unless it's a low-down double post button hittin varmint.
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:27 PM on January 28, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:27 PM on January 28, 2002
Or a talkin-to-himself, monopolizin-the-thread, phonetical-typin', Yosemite-Sam-imitatin', agnosticatin', makin-up-words-icatin' sapsucker.
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:41 PM on January 28, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:41 PM on January 28, 2002
Just as soon as I work out quite what that says, I'll get to mistyping a clever retort.
posted by dong_resin at 1:53 PM on January 28, 2002
posted by dong_resin at 1:53 PM on January 28, 2002
I still haven't seen a satisfactory answer to the original question, viz. "Is it necessary to deride people's religious beliefs every time someone mentions God?"
Apparently, on MeFi lately, the answer is a resounding YES for certain people, one of whom feels "if he's in jail, that's one less fundamentalist bothering me". I recognize that this person is fundamentally a troll. But he's not the only one. Why do so many on MeFi equate all religion with whatever aspects of fundamentalism they despise? Why are they so contemptuous about civil rights of people with belief systems that contradict their own?
posted by dhartung at 9:12 PM on January 28, 2002
Apparently, on MeFi lately, the answer is a resounding YES for certain people, one of whom feels "if he's in jail, that's one less fundamentalist bothering me". I recognize that this person is fundamentally a troll. But he's not the only one. Why do so many on MeFi equate all religion with whatever aspects of fundamentalism they despise? Why are they so contemptuous about civil rights of people with belief systems that contradict their own?
posted by dhartung at 9:12 PM on January 28, 2002
Okay, dhartung, I'll articulate an answer, even though you'll probably be the only one to see it at this late date...
I goof on religion and the religious because religion is, by definition, anti-questioning. The way I see it, asking questions is the only thing that makes us better than monkeys. I won't go to really drastic lengths like our serious trolling friends because I don't feel hateful towards the faithful, but I can understand to some degree the sentiment behind such comments.
posted by dong_resin at 10:03 PM on January 28, 2002
I goof on religion and the religious because religion is, by definition, anti-questioning. The way I see it, asking questions is the only thing that makes us better than monkeys. I won't go to really drastic lengths like our serious trolling friends because I don't feel hateful towards the faithful, but I can understand to some degree the sentiment behind such comments.
posted by dong_resin at 10:03 PM on January 28, 2002
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Others, like Chanther (in that thread), are far more understanding, so it's not all bad.
posted by insomnyuk at 8:32 PM on January 24, 2002