Are Sarah Palin posts persona non grata? November 25, 2009 11:07 AM   Subscribe

Is Metafilter just not capable of discussing Sarah Palin, or was it my fault?

I found what I thought was a funny (if also cringeworthy) YouTube video about Sarah Palin. So I posted it to the blue. I was unexpectedly called away for a few hours and when I returned, my post was deleted. From the tone of the deletion message, I can clearly see that I've pissed cortex off.

FWIW, I feel bad that I made the mods' job harder. I'm OK with my post getting deleted. I had hoped things would go better. The comments certainly did turn south very quickly and I am well aware that I'm not a special snowflake.

What I would like to know from my fellow mefites is if the comments turned ugly because of the way that I presented it, or if its just a hot-button issue that we have a hard time being civil about.

Is Sarah Palin the new circumcision, or do we just need better posts to frame the discussion?
posted by double block and bleed to Etiquette/Policy at 11:07 AM (139 comments total)

Well, yeah, you didn't do a great job framing the discussion.

But also, I don't know that even with a perfectly framed discussion we could have a .. good.. discussion about Sarah Palin.

Because she's... Sarah Palin.

I think I just proved my own point. It's not her fault. It's our fault.

And a little her fault.
posted by kbanas at 11:10 AM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


Just to be clear, you didn't piss me off or anything. I'm sorry if the deletion read harshly, it's just not a new topic or something that I think most folks would find surprising to see flagged or criticized and some frustration-before-caffeine may have slipped through.

Better framing of the post is always a good thing, but in this case I'm not sure it's an issue of framing so much as of what exactly is supposed to be good about sharing the content itself in this case. There's nothing really to dig into, no meat to the video or any straightforward post about it—which would be fine if the subject of the video was something quirky and non-charged, maybe, but a Palin/politics/ideology-centric thing like this is like flushing a cherry bomb.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:12 AM on November 25, 2009 [2 favorites]


The post didn't strike me as being about Sarah Palin, but rather focused on the LOLPALINITES factor that was posted in the deletion note. (I guess the opposite of this would be a posting of "Obama is going to pay for my gas & mortgage,", which I suspect would be whacked pretty quickly too.)
posted by brandman at 11:13 AM on November 25, 2009


Palin threads tend to just spiral into hatefests. To wit: 1 2 3. It really seemed like your post was on the way to another 300+ OMGSTUPID WINGNUTTY WHITE TRASHY HURFDURF junk thread that is probably best done on another website. Them's the breaks.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:14 AM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


I agree that we should be able to discuss Palin. At least for the moment, she happens to be an important figure in American politics; she might run for president. These things are true regardless of anyone's opinion of her. It'd be just as silly to have a rule against talking about her as it would be for a right-wing site to have had a rule against talking about Obama when he was running for president.

But a single YouTube link with no context or explanation of why it's noteworthy isn't the best way to start a scintillating discussion. I didn't watch the video and wouldn't have bothered to click on it. Palin YouTube clips are a dime a dozen and generally not the "best of the web."
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:15 AM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


Some of us are ok with never, ever, seeing Palin again anywhere. To have her dragged in here for our viewing displeasure, plus the exhortation to discuss, discuss, discuss

"Is Sarah Palin the new circumcision, or do we just need better posts to frame the discussion?"

can just be too much, sometimes. You're lucky the post stayed up as long as it did.
posted by Lynsey at 11:16 AM on November 25, 2009


I agree that we should be able to discuss Palin.

Just because we can, does not mean we should.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:18 AM on November 25, 2009 [3 favorites]


Palin threads tend to just spiral into hatefests. To wit: 1 2 3.

Well, it should be said that your "2" link doesn't quite suggest that Metafilter is "not capable of discussing Sarah Palin"! Over 5,000 comments, and they're not all devoid of substance.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:20 AM on November 25, 2009


Is Sarah Palin the new circumcision, or do we just need better posts to frame the discussion?

MeFites can talk about circumcision too if people take care with the way they make their posts. "This is cringeworthy" isn't usually a good reason for a post even on a neutral topic. On a hot button topic, it doesn't seem like a good idea at all. Josh and I had to chitchat this morning before really deciding to axe it [after I cleared the thread of the predictable girl-rapey Beck jokes, joy!] and once we'd both had coffee, decided it should probably go.

It's pretty much impossible to piss cortex off, but sometimes you can needle him into an eyeroll.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:20 AM on November 25, 2009 [7 favorites]


Better posts would be a start. I don't think there's much to talk about until/unless the investigations into S.P.'s conduct as Mayor of Wasilla (embezzling) or Governor of Alaska (abusing power) bear fruit or some new interesting analysis is published.

Those who hate & love and love to hate the lovers (the latest post in question) S.P. have had their say. There isn't much of a political platform to (rationally) discuss and most of the issues raised in the damned book are he said/she said crap between her & the McCain campaign. There is some coverage of that maybe worth linking to.

I find the most value in writing about what S.P. says about the American political process and tangential issues she brings to the fore like how a Midwestern accent made it to Alaska via a New Deal program.

It turns out Ms. Fey is missing a few subtleties in her impersonation.
For example, Palin pronounces the word "feel" like "fill" and "peel" like "pill." Those inflections were not picked up on by the media or those who lampooned Palin
posted by morganw at 11:21 AM on November 25, 2009 [3 favorites]


For what it's worth, I really enjoyed the main link as well as some of the other links from the post. I don't think your presentation was bad, and I don't think the discussion was a nastiness outlier relative to lots of other threads. I thought it was a bad deletion and I considered making my own metatalk post about it.
posted by Kwine at 11:21 AM on November 25, 2009


I don't really have a dog in this fight (boo Palin, for good measure, though)--but this MeTa post reminds me of that Simpsons episode about Ned Flanders' wild childhood. Flanders' beatnik parents, exasperated at his bad behavior, fume "We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas!"

Could you frame it better? Yes. Could you frame it AT ALL? Yes. Kudos for owning up for a bad post, and good on you for posting something, but just drive-by posting doesn't get the ball rolling in the right direction.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:22 AM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


Palin threads turn extra ugly because it's at least a 4 way fight.

1) Liberals who see Palin as the manipulative, shallow opportunist faker that she is.
2) Liberals who see Palin as the manipulative, shallow opportunist faker that she is....but think that saying so is bad (whether because of impoliteness or thinking that sunshine doesn't kill germs or whatever).
3) Conservatives who see Palin as the manipulative, shallow opportunist faker that she is.
4) Idiots.
posted by DU at 11:28 AM on November 25, 2009 [26 favorites]


I think MetaFilter will survive without the post. And really, I don't think that video was going to produce a thoughtful discussion about the people who love Palin, regardless of how it was framed. The people in that video scare the fuck out of me.
posted by chunking express at 11:32 AM on November 25, 2009


Personally, I am not a big fan of "point-and-laugh" posts. I was actually quite surprised that the "How to Get a Good Man" post was not deleted.
posted by lalex at 11:37 AM on November 25, 2009 [2 favorites]


that was a tough one because the topic was basically "lol, look at these morans who want palin's signature." it wasn't so much about her. that makes some people uncomfortable, along the lines of laughing at the less fortunate.

on the other hand, many mefites realize that these people are fucking terrifying, because they actually like this maniac. never mind that she:

-demonstrated a complete inability to answer even the simplest questions coherently
-pretended that alaska's geographic nearness to russia made her a foreign policy expert
-actually said that being mayor of a town of 10,000 gave her more presidential-style executive experience than obama's entire political career
-calls her own child a retard
-ran on a platform of abstinence only sex education while her child was becoming an unwed pregnant teenager
-had to resign in disgrace from her job as mayor due to staggering amounts of petty corruption
-lied to the entire country about her completely imaginary idea of death panels

these people, being aware of all of this, have decided that she is their girl and would vote for her in a heartbeat. that's presidential material, as far as they're concerned. that's terrifying, because there is no amount of ignorance or differing idealism that can account for it. it's this horrific mixture of racism, ignorance and straight up batshit lunacy that results in registered voters preferring her for the most important political position in the country because the other choice is a black man.

and what happens when some mefites consider this is that they snark and laugh at them, because sometimes humor and derision is the only way to keep from losing your fucking mind in the face of madness. but the other mefites, who would prefer not to laugh at the unfortunates, are justifiably uncomfortable with seeing that behavior on metafilter. and so there you go. the threads end up not great.

but for real, those people are fucking terrifying.
posted by shmegegge at 11:42 AM on November 25, 2009 [29 favorites]


SARAH PALIN IS YOUR NEW CIRCUMCISION
posted by Rhaomi at 11:43 AM on November 25, 2009 [4 favorites]


I think the problem with discussion Palin and her followers is that fundamentally, they are framing their side of the conversation from a place of deceit, and it's really hard to keep saying "that isn't accurate", "that is factually incorrect", "that is just not true" before you are shouting "stop fucking lying!" and "Are you kidding me?"

On the whole, I think that the blue tries to keep things somewhat civil, but we've been through this before, and we are starting to get a shorthand on the conversation. We go from nice to "bullshit" much quicker when she is involved.

All I know is that I enjoy the existence of Palin and Beck because, and I'm not joking, as soon as I hear someone talking about the value of Palin's opinions, I can completely tune them out.

It's like a diving rod for identifying people I'm not going to be able to talk to.
posted by quin at 11:45 AM on November 25, 2009 [4 favorites]


When Palin actually does something of substance -- such as announce an actual candidacy for an office -- then we can talk about having a meaningful thread. At the moment she has done nothing except for promote a crappy, crappy book. It's a sideshow, and the video was nothing more than "Ha-Ha, those Palin supporters sure are aren't intellectuals".
posted by Rhomboid at 11:45 AM on November 25, 2009


When Palin actually does something of substance -- such as announce an actual candidacy for an office -- then we can talk about having a meaningful thread

She was primarily responsible for the spread of the Death panels nonsense. She's not just some celebrity -- she is actively engaged in politics and successfully promoting agendas. She and Michele Bachmann are going to be the keynote speakers at the First National Tea Party convention.

She's a player on the national scene, and is a lot more than just some twit who wrote a book.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:53 AM on November 25, 2009 [7 favorites]


No, it was your fault. Now pass the damn taters.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:54 AM on November 25, 2009


Softcore of hardcore?
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:55 AM on November 25, 2009


SARAH PALIN IS YOUR NEW CIRCUMCISION

Cut that shit out.
posted by gman at 12:02 PM on November 25, 2009


She's not really circumcision. She's more like cat declawing, obesity, SUVs, suburbs, tattoos and Critical Mass all stirred together into a boiling cauldron of hellbroth.
posted by fixedgear at 12:02 PM on November 25, 2009 [3 favorites]


When Palin actually does something of substance -- such as announce an actual candidacy for an office -- then we can talk about having a meaningful thread.

How can it possibly be the rule that we need to wait till a presidential candidate announces their candidacy? Presidential candidate announcements are done for tactical reasons (a burst of media attention the day they announce) and have little connection to any real timeline of when someone is running for president. Palin ran for vice president last year and seems to be laying the groundwork to run for president as we speak (her book, interviews, fundraising, etc.). Isn't that enough to make her important?
posted by Jaltcoh at 12:02 PM on November 25, 2009


I've asked this before, but did we actually figure out what the fuck taters were? Discovering what they hell they are seems like something the mods should have broke the whole keeping anonymous anonymous rule for; well, that and preventing suicide.
posted by chunking express at 12:03 PM on November 25, 2009 [5 favorites]


did we actually figure out what the fuck taters were?

Po-tay-toes! Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew... Lovely big golden chips with a nice piece of fried fish.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:07 PM on November 25, 2009 [9 favorites]


Rhomboid: "When Palin actually does something of substance"

Any jackass can write a book, am I right?
posted by boo_radley at 12:09 PM on November 25, 2009


I've asked this before, but did we actually figure out what the fuck taters were?

A home run?
posted by quin at 12:09 PM on November 25, 2009


the mods should have broke the whole keeping anonymous anonymous rule for; well, that and preventing suicide.

I've been pretty curious about what taters were too, but I'm not about to kill myself over it.
posted by DU at 12:09 PM on November 25, 2009


no offense meant, cjorgensen.
posted by boo_radley at 12:10 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


Taters, Taters... rah rah rah...
Taters, Taters... hah hah hah...
Mmm... I love Taters!
posted by gman at 12:10 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


This page without Adblock.
posted by aheckler at 12:13 PM on November 25, 2009 [3 favorites]


TATE OR DIE.
posted by fleacircus at 12:15 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


No, it was your fault. Now pass the damn taters.

Softcore of hardcore?


I think the nomenclature is softcore tatORs and hardcore tatERs--so my guess is that you needn't ask whether he's looking for a softcore or hardcore tater.

This is valuable information that must be cherished.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 12:18 PM on November 25, 2009


Good deletion. We can (and have) definitely discussed Palin in seriousness when there was something to discuss. But a link like this could only encourage mocking her supporters, and leaving it at that. There's nowhere for the discussion to lead, and no new information in the post content ("Palin's supporters aren't too bright? Well, dog my cats, I'd-a never imagined!")
posted by Miko at 12:31 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


I've been pretty curious about what taters were too,

So we were watching Ken Burns' Baseball not too long ago, and learned that for a period of time, home runs were called "taters." That led me to extrapolate that maybe "taters," as a stand-in for "home run," could signify the same thing home runs do in the grade-school "first base, second base, third base" hierarchy of sexual activity. In which case "hardcore taters" could mean just plain intercourse, explicitly depicted.

Any takers?
posted by Miko at 12:33 PM on November 25, 2009 [6 favorites]


I was actually quite surprised that the "How to Get a Good Man" post was not deleted.

Me too actually, but the flags only dribbled in on it and even though we peeked in on that thread fairly frequently, most of the discussion was sort of... normal I guess. There's a category of non-deleted posts which we term "don't delete yet but watch closely to see if they get worse" and that post was in that category and didn't devolve.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:36 PM on November 25, 2009


Any takers?

It doesn't really seem to fit.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:38 PM on November 25, 2009


the mods should have broke the whole keeping anonymous anonymous rule for; well, that and preventing suicide.

Also the reason we don't allow suicide questions is that because of the seriousness and often emergency nature of the topic we feel that posting them would be creating a conflict between 1) wanting to allow people to preserve their anonymity 2) wanting to prevent someone from self-harm. So, we do contact people who ask suicide questions, they just don't make it through the vetting process of the AnonyMe system. Sorry, I know this was mostly jokey, but I just wanted to let people know how that stuff works.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:38 PM on November 25, 2009 [4 favorites]


My favourite part of the palin thread was lysdexic's links to populist politicians. That could be an interesting post.
posted by philfromhavelock at 12:39 PM on November 25, 2009


I'm on board w/the deletion.

I was trying to fuel the attempted "populists of the past" derail with something about Robert "Fighting Bob" La Follette and his address Free Speech and the Right of Congress to Declare the Objects of the War and just as I hit post *thhhppp* the thread was closed.

So now here I sit.

I wonder if they'll let us leave work early today with Thanksgiving being tomorrow and all that.
posted by marxchivist at 12:45 PM on November 25, 2009


Miko, I love you. that is awesome.
posted by shmegegge at 12:47 PM on November 25, 2009


I'm torn. I despise Palin for reasons that surprise me: because she has crossed my personal lines for untruthfulness, incompetence, and lack of any class, whatever the word for that may be. I hate the way she throws everyone who works with her under a bus, and her inability to think. That she is a woman, who plays on her looks while complaining of sexism, makes me even angrier. And it is nice to have a place to say all these things.

I'm also hoping to eventually see a discussion about what the heck is happening to the Republican party. If they are turning into a very vocal minority of hard core conservatives and evangelicals (who in turn are bound to discover one of these days that they actually don't agree on much), then whither the US? Will there be a new moderate R/independent party? Or one party hegonomy? Or what? The US's stability, historically, has been very dependent on having a two party system, in which each party encompasses a broad umbrella of beliefs.

Having said all that, something about Palin and her followers makes me see red, in the sense of shortcutting rational thought. So I guess I like the fact that her book tour has gone on without ongoing media hysteria or much noise on MeFi.

Anyway, I sure don't think you are the problem -- I think the topic is tough.
posted by bearwife at 12:49 PM on November 25, 2009 [2 favorites]


jessamyn: There's a category of non-deleted posts which we term "don't delete yet but watch closely to see if they get worse" and that post was in that category and didn't devolve.

Posts like that very much depend on how the first few comments are and nobody jumped on it one way or the other. Actually, I've seen a number of posts this month that I assumed would go to hell in a handbasket that mostly turned out alright. I hesitate to attribute it to any kind of change in commenting behavior because it's been something that's been on my mind all month so this is a fairly obvious candidate for confirmation bias.
posted by Kattullus at 12:49 PM on November 25, 2009


If we aren't letting attention whores like Glenn Beck slither onto the Blue, I personally wouldn't suffer if we just nixed the Palin threads for a while, also.

Of course, that would probably bring up ZOMG CENSORSHIP and I HAVE BEEN SILENCED ALL MY LIFE and godwinism-ing all over the place.
posted by misha at 12:53 PM on November 25, 2009


Sarah Palin is as welcome as Paris Hilton and for many of the same reasons.
posted by Cranberry at 1:09 PM on November 25, 2009


Russ Hodges: Bobby Thomson... up there swingin'... He's had 2 out of 3, a single and a double, and Billy Cox is playing him right on the third base line. 1 out, last of the ninth... Branca pitches, Bobby Thomson takes a strike called on the inside corner. Bobby hitting at .292. He's had a single and a double and he drove in the Giants' first run with a long fly to center. Brooklyn leads it 4 to 2. Hartung, down the line at third, not taking any chances... Lockman with not too big of a lead at second, but he'll be runnin' like the wind if Thomson hits one. Branca throws... [barely audible crack of the bat]... There's a long drive... It's gonna be, I believe..... YES, HARDCORE TATER! The Giants win the Pennant! The Giants win the Pennant! The Giants win the Pennant! The Giants win the pennant!
posted by found missing at 1:12 PM on November 25, 2009


Sarah Palin is as welcome as Paris Hilton

Wow - except for a small matter of A, T, and O, the two names are nearly anagrams.
posted by Miko at 1:13 PM on November 25, 2009


There's a category of non-deleted posts which we term "don't delete yet but watch closely to see if they get worse" and that post was in that category and didn't devolve.

I agree, but then we have to start considering that the interestingness filter includes the comments and not just the posts. Because in the past, there have been many posts deleted for being crappy, despite the fact that they've had awesome comments.
posted by lalex at 1:19 PM on November 25, 2009


My favourite part of the palin thread was lysdexic's links to populist politicians. That could be an interesting post.

Workin' on it. It's hard not running into duplications.
posted by lysdexic at 1:23 PM on November 25, 2009


I live in the Midwest. I know people like the ones in the video. I've heard more than I have cared to about "faggots" ruining marriage , abortion, death panels, how President Obama is muslim/not an American/both, depictions of Michele Obama as a monkey, eliminating all taxes, selling the national parks to pay the public debt, and putting America back on the gold standard. (I still don't understand that one - is there physically enough gold in the world to back the US economy?)

Yes, I thought the video was funny, insofar as it displays some really ignorant people. I don't feel guilty about making fun of them, because I'm basically equal to them in terms of socioeconomic status. I'm not laughing at them from my isolated chalet - I'm right there with them. I'm laughing at them because they are saying stupid things.

The sad thing is that, although not all of us here in flyover country are ignorant hicks in camouflage, there are a lot of people who think this way and are actually excitedly looking forward to voting for Palin in a way that they weren't and didn't for McCain. She really scares the shit out of me because she is perfectly in tune with the anti-intellectualism that is so prevalent here.

I guess the opportunity to take a swipe back was too much for me to resist, but if Miko says it was a bad post, then I must humbly sulk to the corner and put on my dunce cap.

As for taters, there is exactly one person who knows what taters are: anonymous. I would be happy to spring the $5 to give the original poster a sockpuppet to explain what the hell that was all about.

Also, it's the day before Thankgiving, so...

Pie. discuss.
posted by double block and bleed at 1:31 PM on November 25, 2009 [5 favorites]


Pie is scrumptious. The best pie I ever had was an experiment with a pumpkin shell, four cups of deceased jack-o-lantern, home-churned butter, and yam sauce.
posted by lysdexic at 1:35 PM on November 25, 2009


aheckler: "This page without Adblock"

That is hysterical! Is that the real deal, or did you 'shop that?
posted by double block and bleed at 1:36 PM on November 25, 2009


It is real, I just logged out *gasp* and checked.
posted by marxchivist at 1:40 PM on November 25, 2009


Wow.

My biggest dilemma on turkey day is which order to eat the pies. Cherry, Pecan and Pumpkin, my three favorites all in one day.

It almost makes being with my family worth it.
posted by double block and bleed at 1:45 PM on November 25, 2009


Sorry, I know this was mostly jokey, but I just wanted to let people know how that stuff works.

It wasn't a joke. I really want to know what the taters are. For serious.

Well no, I guess it was kind of a joke.
posted by chunking express at 1:45 PM on November 25, 2009


Metafilter is not capable of discussing Sarah Palin and it's your fault.
posted by floam at 1:46 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


I didn't mean to be insulting.

I don't feel guilty about making fun of them, because I'm basically equal to them in terms of socioeconomic status. I'm not laughing at them from my isolated chalet - I'm right there with them. I'm laughing at them because they are saying stupid things.

Though there's privilege here, the more MeFites I've met, the more I realize that not a lot of people are coming from an isolated chalet. I don't think it's a class or region thing - a lot of MeFites, myself included, come from pretty humble backgrounds and many have pretty humble living conditions today, and many (though not all) certainly feel as you do about Palin and yet know and live among people who don't feel that way. I tend to share your opinions, and I definitely understand wanting to swipe back. I was just agreeing with a few others that LOL posts just kind of predetermine the responses, so there's not much there to have a deeper conversation about. No offense meant there.
posted by Miko at 1:47 PM on November 25, 2009


Miko,

I didn't take offense and I wasn't being sarcastic (maybe NEGATIVE HAMBURGER would have helped there). I deeply respect you and your contributions to the site, so when you imply that my post added more noise than signal, then that really gets my attention.
posted by double block and bleed at 1:55 PM on November 25, 2009


double block and bleed: It's real.
posted by aheckler at 2:11 PM on November 25, 2009


Pie is scrumptious

I just had a coworker bring me a homemade pecan pie because "I am her favorite supervisor ever".

I fucking win at Thanksgiving this year.
posted by quin at 2:22 PM on November 25, 2009 [4 favorites]


DU, you're missing a fifth participant in your 4 way fight --

5. People who are just Palin'ed out already.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:31 PM on November 25, 2009


Is Metafilter just not capable of discussing Sarah Palin, or was it my fault?

Yes.
posted by hermitosis at 2:51 PM on November 25, 2009


Though I must say that I liked the video and I liked the post and and I even liked the fighting. So maybe I'm part of the problem.
posted by hermitosis at 2:53 PM on November 25, 2009


Sarah Palin circumcised my Zionist cat.

Just sayin'.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:11 PM on November 25, 2009


Just because we can, does not mean we should.

Just because we "can't", doesn't mean we shouldn't.
posted by sunshinesky at 3:23 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


Is Metafilter just not capable of discussing Sarah Palin, or was it my fault?

Metafilter is perfectly capable of discussing Sarah Palin. There were 133 comments posted within a smidge over three hours in that thread, showing that Metafilter is really good at discussing Sarah Palin and is eager to do so.
posted by bunnytricks at 3:25 PM on November 25, 2009 [5 favorites]


We're having Grey Poupon on our Thanksgiving ham and taters in my chalet tomorrow. Now, would you kindly get off of my lawn?
posted by ericb at 3:26 PM on November 25, 2009


I think she needs to get a haircut and get those darned bangs out of her face, myself.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:27 PM on November 25, 2009


I think Jon Stewart put it best when he said that he doesn't like Palin as a politician because she never has any policy to offer. It's always just style and rhetoric. It's great that she hunts and has a big family and all that, but she has no solutions for a country in desperate need of solutions. Being a mom and having "pro-freedom" beliefs are great and all, but that does not make you qualified. It's even worse when she keeps pitching wrong information, like the "death panels" or her editorial against cap and trade that completely missed the point. (She acted like Cap and Trade was about reducing fuel usage to keep prices down and supplies up, and that the better solution would be to drill for more oil. Of course, it was always chiefly about keeping CO2 emissions under control.)

Contrast that to Obama, who was not afraid to directly talk policy, or any of the other mainstream Republican candidates she will most likely face in the next election. I think she will run, but she won't look very smart in the debates, which may or may not cost her the nomination.

This lack of substance is what makes it hard to have a rational conversation about Palin for an extended period before it devolves into snark and attempts to deconstruct her psyche. Once you go past her few bits of policy, that's all there is left. And, unfortunately, she has more tabloid scandals than your typical political family.

Thus, I think we should only have Palin on the front page when there's real news about her. Videos of her fans, and nothing else, is pretty weak for a FPP. We'll just end up pointing and laughing. No major insights will be made on how the government should be run. She shouldn't be verboten, as she is a newsmaker. But at this point, we can't guess her political trajectory or talk policy, so what's the point, other than retreading old jokes?
posted by mccarty.tim at 3:32 PM on November 25, 2009 [10 favorites]


Also, plz to have a SPECULATE ON IF LEVI IS COMING FOR THANKSGIVING CHEZ PALINS?! thread?
posted by mccarty.tim at 3:33 PM on November 25, 2009


Word on the street is that there were no tators in Levi's Playgirl shoot. This makes me sad.

For my thanksgiving, I'm planning on bringing over four pies, as per I mentioned in the Thanksgiving thread on the Blue. Two pumpkin, one apple, one chocolate pecan. It's for an Orthodox Jewish family who keep kosher, and as a Presbyterian, I have no idea how to keep kosher. All the ingredients had the circle-U, though, so I assume I did it right.

In honor of this comment, I won't freak out over if I did it right.
posted by mccarty.tim at 3:41 PM on November 25, 2009


Imma slap yo ass.
posted by Burhanistan at 3:49 PM on November 25, 2009


From what I've heard, her D&D playing suggestions really suck.
posted by Pronoiac at 4:11 PM on November 25, 2009 [2 favorites]


> I think the nomenclature is softcore tatORs and hardcore tatERs--so my guess is that you needn't ask whether he's looking for a softcore or hardcore tater.

I missed this.. I was so much happier when I didn't know the source of this meme. I read the whole damn meta thread and.. and.. no one figured it out?

I will not sleep well tonight.
posted by cj_ at 4:14 PM on November 25, 2009


I think she needs to get a haircut and get those darned bangs out of her face, myself.

oh, great point. I mean, I think you are a troll, but neither of us are likely to get deleted any time soon, amirite?
posted by lalex at 4:15 PM on November 25, 2009


Speaking of pies, this looks good, doesn't it?
posted by Ms. Saint at 4:23 PM on November 25, 2009


Sarah Palin scares me because she (well, combined with some racism) got my New Jersey Jewish Capital D Democrat grandmother to vote for a non-Democrat for the first time in her 73 years on planet Earth.

That is a precedent that freaks me out.
posted by birdie birdington at 4:27 PM on November 25, 2009 [2 favorites]


First, it's not a good idea to talk about "pissing off" a mod. That makes the whole deletion personal, and it's not.

Second, it was a pretty lukewarm link. There was no point, beyond laughing at a bunch of midwestern people who support a polarizing politician.

And there was nothing much to laugh at. And even if there was, the whole thing seems just a little too meanspirited.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:32 PM on November 25, 2009


I thought cortex said "LOLPANTIES", so I was somewhat glad he deleted a post with upskirt shots of Palin supporters.
posted by armage at 4:51 PM on November 25, 2009


I thought the link was hilarious and should have stayed.

And there was nothing much to laugh at. And even if there was, the whole thing seems just a little too meanspirited.

It's meanspirited to show that Sarah Palin's ardent supporters have no clue about anything she might stand for, except for a few vague platitudes?

I think it's actually good for people to see this sort of thing. Some of us up in our ivory towers, surrounded by reasonably intelligent people, tend to forget how fucking stupid the average person is.
posted by jayder at 4:57 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


My current favorite theory (brought up here) is that taters is in-joke rhyming-slang in some other online community, based on Tater Tomater.

Titillator! Masturbator! Fornicator! Ejaculator!

Doesn't matter if it's spelled tater or tator... it's just used to equate 'er to some lewd perpetrator.

L8r t8r.
posted by team lowkey at 5:29 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


I wish Dr. Strange were coming to my Thanksgiving dinner. And brining Vishanti pies.
posted by josher71 at 5:44 PM on November 25, 2009



I wish Dr. Strange were coming to my Thanksgiving dinner. And brining Vishanti pies.


Dude should sell his village townhouse. He'd get bank on a new york city apartment that's bigger on the inside.
posted by The Whelk at 5:51 PM on November 25, 2009


I try to stay out of the Palin point-n-laughs because I feel as though she sets herself up to be the punchline. Then she uses that to rant about how all the left-wingers are against her. Sarah Palin is a willing victim in a mock-off.

There are few things more damaging to Sarah Palin than a well considered look at her stance on issues. Her cluelessness in life is often cute and sort of endearing. Her cluelessness as a candidate is terrifying.

Mefi should be able to discuss Palin, but we still get lost in what a goober she is.
posted by 26.2 at 6:18 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


If "tater" meant "home run," then "softcore taters" would be a contradiction in terms. Penetration is hardcore by definition.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:36 PM on November 25, 2009


Did you see that? At her book signing. She left those people high and dry. Her bus ran off like a little b... oh wait.
posted by tkchrist at 6:38 PM on November 25, 2009


What I wrote and clicked 'post' to a deletion notice was along the lines of:
People that show up to a book signing and are willing to speak on camera represent a small subset of Palin supporters. An intelligent discussion would more likely be preceded by a clip that involved researching an actual cross section of Palin supporters and going to interview them. Standing in a parking lot with a camera for 3 hours can make an entertaining and energizing video segment but it's lame journalism.
posted by vapidave at 6:50 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


For my thanksgiving, I'm planning on bringing over four pies, as per I mentioned in the Thanksgiving thread on the Blue. Two pumpkin, one apple, one chocolate pecan. It's for an Orthodox Jewish family who keep kosher, and as a Presbyterian, I have no idea how to keep kosher. All the ingredients had the circle-U, though, so I assume I did it right.

Unless you keep a kosher kitchen, they probably aren't kosher. If any of the utensils or dishes you used to prepare them, for example, have been used to eat or prepare non-kosher foods, then the food is not kosher.
posted by hermitosis at 6:51 PM on November 25, 2009


I think we should have like one designated thread per month where we can shamelessly be stupid dicks.
posted by The Straightener at 7:04 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


Unless you keep a kosher kitchen, they probably aren't kosher.
posted by fixedgear at 7:04 PM on November 25, 2009


I'm interested, by which I mean disheartened, that the most popular Palin book tour video was filmed at a Borders in Dublin, OH, a reasonably prosperous Columbus suburb. And I'd be interested, by which I mean morbidly curious, to see similar footage filmed at the PX in Fayetteville, NC, which if I recall correctly is home to a well-known Mefite, or at the Sam's Club in Fayetteville, AR, which is in my home state.
posted by box at 7:04 PM on November 25, 2009


Penetration is hardcore by definition.

So... haven't heard of Emanuelle, have you?
posted by qvantamon at 7:05 PM on November 25, 2009


I think we should have like one designated thread per month where we can shamelessly be stupid dicks.

The problem is Metafilter has, in just one week, already met it's quota until August 2043.
posted by tkchrist at 7:09 PM on November 25, 2009


Shame is really a 19th century thing. The 21st century is all about contextual dickery with the gentle malaise of righteous ignorance.
posted by YoBananaBoy at 7:10 PM on November 25, 2009 [4 favorites]


I think we should have like one designated thread per month where we can shamelessly be stupid dicks.

You can always go to the first SLYT post and comment on youtube.

Unless you don't really mean THAT stupid.
posted by qvantamon at 8:11 PM on November 25, 2009


I think it's probably a good idea to err on the side of exposing phonies and their brainwashed followers as often as possible. LOLz fest? Of course. But necessary. There is a lot of flair and imbalance coming from these people, we need to constantly remind ourselves that the future of the nation and polite society everywhere is at stake- every time nutjobs like this get a pass, we allow them one more step into remaking society into some kind of anti-rational bully-ocracy.
posted by gjc at 8:23 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


i've actually read the first chapter of her book

"All work and no play makes Sarah a dull girl. All work and no play makes Sarah a dull girl. All work and no play makes Sarah a dull girl. All work and no play makes Sarah a dull girl. All work and no play makes Sarah a dull girl. All work and no play makes Sarah a dull girl. All work ..."
posted by pyramid termite at 8:36 PM on November 25, 2009


Is Sarah Palin the new circumcision?

Yes. Yes, she is.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:52 PM on November 25, 2009


There is nothing intelligent or serious to be discussed about that ignorant, witless narcissist. There is very little to be discussed about her so-called “supporters” who are equally ignorant and are more stupid than her. They are people who are beyond the reach of rational thought.

MetaFilter gains nothing by allowing mainstream media rabble-rousing and attention-whoring to dominate its group consciousness. There are very few people who would, push come to shove, vote that vapid doll into office. She is not worth our group attention. For those of us that get some sort of sick kick out of this horror show, we are abundantly served by all the rest of the internet.

We can kick it up a notch. We need more cats on scanners, fewer media whores.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:12 PM on November 25, 2009


fff, I write the following without sarcasm:

I've always suspected that one thing that would suck about being a Canadian is the intrusive nature of American culture. You get bombarded with our politicians' every burp and fart, while almost no one in the states knows what your prime minister's name is. Or that you even have a prime minister.

I don't mean this as "shut the fuck up, canuck. The grownups are talking" kind of thing. I just wonder how much people (not nessecarily you) from other countries get fed up with us simply because we talk about ourselves, our culture and our leaders so much.

When I think of the term "media whore" I think of Paris Hilton because to me, a simple media whore isn't someone who has a fair-to-middling chance to run the United States. If these morons elect her to office, then we can only hope that she's too dumb to issue the launch codes.

I know that today isn't Thanksgiving there, but I hope you have the pie of your choice in the near future.
posted by double block and bleed at 9:56 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


Who?
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:57 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


So when firefox underlines the words in red, that means something?
posted by double block and bleed at 9:58 PM on November 25, 2009


If she weren't a media whore, she'd still be Governor. She chose to walk away from that job so that she could pursue a media career. So far, she is succeeding well.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:04 PM on November 25, 2009


I just wonder how much people (not nessecarily you) from other countries get fed up with us simply because we talk about ourselves, our culture and our leaders so much.
Not particularly, its a perfectly natural thing to do; if I want to read commentary and discussion about politics where I'm from (UK) or where I live (China) I go to forums with users from there.
Annoyance comes more from people discussing the politics, history or whatever of other places entirely through a lens of a narrow domestic experience and with little sign of much effort to understand the subject at hand, but that's not an exclusively US phenomenon either. You can read any number of ridiculous threads about America on non-US forums if you fancy losing the will to live.
posted by Abiezer at 10:24 PM on November 25, 2009


One thing MetaFilter does poorly is Thanksgiving.

IT WAS LAST MONTH, NO ONE CARES, QUIT FOISTING YOUR LAME YANKEE HOLIDAY ON EVERYONE ELSE.

And not a one of you better even effing think about posting that William Burroughs Thanksgiving Prayer this year. I know, I know, when I was fourteen I would have thought it was totally righteous, too, but come the hell on already.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:25 PM on November 25, 2009 [2 favorites]


Oh yes, she is a media whore, don't get me wrong. I just see her as a much more dangerous one. Sort of like how my Mom has a Russian Blue (?) cat and my friend raises cougars. They're both cats, but I don't think the cougars would purr if I came in their cage to pet them.
posted by double block and bleed at 10:30 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


Alvy Ampersand: "One thing MetaFilter does poorly is Thanksgiving.

IT WAS LAST MONTH, NO ONE CARES, QUIT FOISTING YOUR LAME YANKEE HOLIDAY ON EVERYONE ELSE...
"

I really didn't know that Canadians had a Thankgiving. I always assumed that you were all some sort of godless turkey haters or something.
posted by double block and bleed at 10:34 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


And not a one of you better even effing think about posting that William Burroughs Thanksgiving Prayer this year.

For true that. I found Burroughs really cool when I was a stoned teenager but now I find him just kind of disgusting and sad. His whole schtick is basically to show you the keys out of one prison cell but instead of pointing you to the exit he encourages you to go to the filthy, trash strewn block that's under lockdown after a riot. Total asshole. Happy Thanksgiving!
posted by Burhanistan at 10:35 PM on November 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


I just wonder how much people (not nessecarily you) from other countries get fed up with us simply because we talk about ourselves, our culture and our leaders so much.

Thing is, we LOVE to talk about American politics, because we're soaking in it, and therefore know everything there is to know about it, but we're not really invested in the outcome. It's like, I don't know--football?

American politics (like American sports) is so much more theatrical. In Canada, election season lasts the two minutes it takes to cast a vote. No drama, just a simple transaction. In America, election season drags on for years at a time! That shit is hilarious! We love that! And your politicians are fun to watch whereas ours tend to peak at a "best/worst math teacher" level of interesting.

Actually, yes, it is exactly like football. American politics=NFL. Canadian politics=CFL. The CFL is, to say the least, a bit bland by comparison. Hell, the most interesting part of CFL season is the Grey Cup. The Grey Cup, for god's sake! We are truly a nation utterly devoid of 'zazz.

Also: You know how every good TV show has a wacky neighbour? Yeah, well, you're it.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:49 PM on November 25, 2009 [8 favorites]


Sadly, I've only been to Canada (Ontario) once, for two weeks on business about 15 years ago. I was struck by how nice, friendly, unassuming and seemingly completely free of drama the people that I met there were. Most of those people were factory workers in a car plant.

It was like the episode of Spongebob Squarepants where he freaks out Squidward by acting completely normal for a week.
posted by double block and bleed at 11:02 PM on November 25, 2009 [2 favorites]


I think us Canucks should do the smart thing and have two Thanksgivings, a Black Friday, and a Boxing Day.

I just see her as a much more dangerous one.

Dangerous, how? She's not going to run for President: she can't even handle running Alaska. She is entirely about media-whoring now, jonesing for a job with Fox. Her sycophantic dipshits are bit players.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:37 PM on November 25, 2009


Thanksgiving is sort of a bullshit holiday, IMO.

Be thankful, sure, but thankful to who? It's like, oh holy fuck, how long must this Puritan Calvinist Providence-fest persist? It's like this close to sacrificing virgins, you know? That's on the one hand. On the other hand, it's a national holiday. A secular national holiday, even. An all-inclusive. secular, national holiday, brought to you by the government. So, again, to whom are we supposed to owe this debt of gratitude? There's something about that that seems sort of, I don't know—Soviet?
posted by Sys Rq at 11:57 PM on November 25, 2009


It's a harvest festival, Sys Rq. You go out and put some little potatoes in the ground in the spring and then in the fall you dig up some nice big potatoes. You are thankful that you can dig many delicious potatoes out of the ground. You can thank god, mother nature, or photosynthesis; it doesn't matter.
posted by ssg at 12:15 AM on November 26, 2009 [7 favorites]


The thread wasn't about Palin (was the problem); It was about the people waiting in line to see her. They're just people ... alright, people who have a massive empty spot where the 'thinking' part goes on in the brain (I speak from experience). But who's fault is that? That blind spot? Their own? Some of 'em, yeah, but a bunch of them could be better served by a media less interested in selling soap and more interested in providing news and just plain information.

I was impressed at what a fucking mess the thread was though. Seriously, it was worth it for that and if I ever have the chance I'll totally bake a pie for a mod. You guys did the right thing.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:21 AM on November 26, 2009


And I thought it was decided taters were testicles. I remember when I got to middle school and they served 'Tater-Tots' - they were kind of small-testicle sized potato hash brown like things.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:25 AM on November 26, 2009


I would be very happy to see conservatives launch a war on Thanksgiving in retaliation for the liberals' war on Christmas.
posted by creasy boy at 3:31 AM on November 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


You know who else had an army of peasants who let him rise to power based only on being able to spin a good yarn?

That's right, Jesus.
posted by gjc at 5:40 AM on November 26, 2009


Was Jesus a feminist?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:06 AM on November 26, 2009


IT WAS LAST MONTH, NO ONE CARES, QUIT FOISTING YOUR LAME YANKEE HOLIDAY ON EVERYONE ELSE..."

Crappy Canadian Thanksgiving.
posted by ericb at 6:47 AM on November 26, 2009


Actually, yes, it is exactly like football. American politics=NFL. Canadian politics=CFL. The CFL is, to say the least, a bit bland by comparison. Hell, the most interesting part of CFL season is the Grey Cup. The Grey Cup, for god's sake! We are truly a nation utterly devoid of 'zazz.

I'd say it's the other way around. Take away the hype and off-field antics, and the actual game of Canadian football is far superior and much more fun than the boring American version. More offense, more scoring, more big plays, and no wimpy fair catch rule on kick returns. If we only had more drug addicts, spousal abusers and dog fighters, we'd take over completely.
posted by rocket88 at 7:13 AM on November 26, 2009


(tongue in cheek)

(sort of)

As usual, you Canadians miss the entire point. It is about POWER. And the psychic boost we get from choosing to back the most powerful team. A blowout isn't a boring mismatch, it was a decisive show of force. We keep trying to win, even when it seems impossible. Even after it IS impossible. But when we get tired of fighting the impossible, we take a knee.

We don't give a rats ass about skill or nuance. Just winning. And bandwagon jumping.
posted by gjc at 8:04 AM on November 26, 2009


You know who else had an army of peasants...

Bruce Campbell?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:51 AM on November 26, 2009 [2 favorites]


STOP FOISTING MY FOISTING.
posted by YoBananaBoy at 11:25 AM on November 26, 2009


FOIST BY YOUR OWN PICARD
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:31 PM on November 26, 2009


It's a harvest festival, Sys Rq. You go out and put some little potatoes in the ground in the spring and then in the fall you dig up some nice big potatoes. You are thankful that you can dig many delicious potatoes out of the ground. You can thank god, mother nature, or photosynthesis; it doesn't matter.

But, like, hypothetically speaking, let's say there was a recession and a zillion people were jobless and homeless and hungry and cold. To whom would those people owe mad culturally mandated props, and why should they?
posted by Sys Rq at 1:05 PM on November 26, 2009


> And I thought it was decided taters were testicles.

What's the difference between a hardcore and softcore testicle, then?
posted by cj_ at 1:52 PM on November 26, 2009


Sys Rq, I'm not using a metaphor (or at least not as broad of one as you think). Even if there is a recession, potatoes continue to grow and you can still harvest them. Our economic system is messed up in all kinds of ways, but that doesn't mean we can't still celebrate the fact that food grows in the ground. Even people who are literally hungry are very likely able to access some sort of Thanksgiving meal.

If you want to make the argument that we shouldn't celebrate our natural resources when our system to use and share those resources is so poor, then I sympathize with you, but I don't agree.
posted by ssg at 1:55 PM on November 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


You seem to think I am putting forward an argument. I am not.

It just strikes me as a little raindancey, is all, and a little bit pacifying in the implication that anyone who dares criticize the great and benevolent provider of turkiful bounty is a gull-durned ungrateful ingrate.

And also it's a totally wasteful celebration of wanton gluttony.

And also it means the christmas carols have been awakened from their slumber hungry for brains.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:21 PM on November 26, 2009


And also it's a totally wasteful celebration of wanton gluttony.

Eh, hyperbole aside I just had a nice meal with the family and everyone to a person had only one plate, and finished every last morsel. Then, we divided up the leftovers and took it home. Now we're set for food until next week. No wasting, no wanton gluttony. In fact, all told we're making out pretty well since the raw ingredients were relatively simple and inexpensive, and the labor was free. We'll be coming out ahead all around, not even counting the good time.

Wantonly pissing on a holiday that others enjoy (and many actually do in moderation) is a waste of good bile.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:26 PM on November 26, 2009 [3 favorites]


What's the difference between a hardcore and softcore testicle, then?

... ketchup?
posted by From Bklyn at 2:26 PM on November 26, 2009


There's a neuticles joke in here somewhere.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:38 PM on November 26, 2009


So hey Sarah Palin amirite?
posted by Sys Rq at 5:10 PM on November 26, 2009


I didn't take offense and I wasn't being sarcastic (maybe NEGATIVE HAMBURGER would have helped there).

VEGGIEBURGER?
posted by defenestration at 3:54 PM on November 27, 2009


To return to the topic, I actually do think Metafilter can perform well with Sarah Palin threads. It just requires a lot of effort on the part of the original poster to make it worthwhile and new.

Hell, I've even tried to make one myself, but something about it just made me quit halfway through.
posted by flatluigi at 12:00 AM on November 28, 2009


SARAH PALIN IS YOUR NEW CIRCUMCISION

Careful, you're going to give Andrew Sullivan another reason to irrationally hate her.

(sorry I'm late to the party, but I couldn't resist)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 6:25 AM on November 28, 2009


It's pretty much impossible to piss cortex off, but sometimes you can needle him into an eyeroll.

With that, cortex becomes more of an Internet Jesus (of Snark) for me. "If someone posts something of questionable taste, roll your eyes but once to to the right. If they post again, simply roll your eyes to the left."
posted by filthy light thief at 2:29 PM on November 28, 2009


As long as we're discussing SP, although I know several people (including my own mother!) who paid money for her book in a store, I have not cracked the book or asked the people who read it if SP has a line or two about what she's doing for Trig who has a medical condition that require therapy, especially in this point in his development.

But maybe I'm just cranky because all the pie is gone.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:08 PM on December 1, 2009


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