you've new comments! February 18, 2011 3:06 AM Subscribe
Is there any interest in adding a new comments counter to favorites and activity pages?
I'm sure we've all notice how the new comments counters on the front page are perpetually inflated, but any other solutions, like say personalized rss feeds, sounds unnecessarily complex.
There is a more subtle concern that maybe mefi doesn't want to broadcast the existence of new comments too soon, well might encourages bad behavior. If so, I'll still observe that the front page's new comments counters error in the wrong direction, inflating the new comments count rather than simply delaying reporting of new comments.
There is a more subtle concern that maybe mefi doesn't want to broadcast the existence of new comments too soon, well might encourages bad behavior. If so, I'll still observe that the front page's new comments counters error in the wrong direction, inflating the new comments count rather than simply delaying reporting of new comments.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
posted by Stynxno at 5:50 AM on February 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Stynxno at 5:50 AM on February 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
Are you one of those poor souls who doesn't have Plutor's handydandy greasemonkey script installed?
I'd link to it, but I can never find it when I go looking. I'm sure someone more helpful than me will throw you a bone.
posted by Grither at 5:59 AM on February 18, 2011
I'd link to it, but I can never find it when I go looking. I'm sure someone more helpful than me will throw you a bone.
posted by Grither at 5:59 AM on February 18, 2011
There is a more subtle concern that maybe mefi doesn't want to broadcast the existence of new comments too soon, well might encourages bad behavior.
Honestly that thought hadn't crossed my mind. That said, querying 25 pages at once to see if there are new comments [as would happen on recent activity] seems a bit more processor intensive for not that much benefit. The intention was really to have a way for people to be able to keep up in fast-moving threads as well as be able to comment in them without having to preview-refresh a huge long thread, not to always have a totally-accurate comment count for everyplace on the site.
The front page comment count is doing a very specific thing and it's sort of for the opposite approach. If you read the front page maybe once a day, it will let you know which threads are busy and roughly how many comments are new. It's accurate if you're a sometimes reader, or if you're someone who logs out, or has your session time out. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, are you saying the front page shows more comments than actually exist? If so, that's likely because we deleted a comment or two, not because there's some hanky panky going on.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:03 AM on February 18, 2011
Honestly that thought hadn't crossed my mind. That said, querying 25 pages at once to see if there are new comments [as would happen on recent activity] seems a bit more processor intensive for not that much benefit. The intention was really to have a way for people to be able to keep up in fast-moving threads as well as be able to comment in them without having to preview-refresh a huge long thread, not to always have a totally-accurate comment count for everyplace on the site.
The front page comment count is doing a very specific thing and it's sort of for the opposite approach. If you read the front page maybe once a day, it will let you know which threads are busy and roughly how many comments are new. It's accurate if you're a sometimes reader, or if you're someone who logs out, or has your session time out. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, are you saying the front page shows more comments than actually exist? If so, that's likely because we deleted a comment or two, not because there's some hanky panky going on.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:03 AM on February 18, 2011
The FAQ should have only one question, and it should be about how the "new comments" number is calculated.
posted by Plutor at 6:39 AM on February 18, 2011
posted by Plutor at 6:39 AM on February 18, 2011
True Plutor, but anytime I try to come up with a succinct explanation of how they work I end up writing too much about how web applications work instead. I'll give it another shot:
You're at work in the morning. After a few productive hours you decide to reward yourself with a break. You head over to MetaFilter to see what's happening in the world. You open your browser for the first time and click your MetaFilter bookmark.
The Metafilter server says (in its own way), "Hello, I've seen you before. The last time you visited was yesterday at 4:45 pm. I'll indicate new comments posted since then. I will also set the current time as your last visited time for your next visit."
You click on a thread to read the comments. When you do that, the MetaFilter server says (in its own way), "Hello, I've seen you before. The last time you visited was today less than 1 minute ago. No need to reset new comments posted since then. Carry on."
You read through the thread, go back to the front page, read a few more. Each time the MetaFilter server registers your activity and makes a decision about whether or not to reset new comment counts for you.
You get a phone call. It's an important client meeting that lasts 20 minutes. You decide to reward yourself with a break. You open MetaFilter and the server says, "Hello, I've seen you before. The last time you visited was 25 minutes ago. I'll go ahead and indicate new comments posted since then. I will also set the current time as your last visited time for your next visit."
Because more than 15 minutes elapsed without activity on the site, the server reset your session and gave you some new new comment counts.
HOWEVER, a couple weeks ago we added inline comment updates and that could have an effect on front page new comment counts. Here's how:
You're back at work and you load a thread. The MetaFilter server says its standard hello. With inline comments on, your browser joins the conversation in the background. Your browser says, "Any new comments yet?" (Waits 30 seconds.) "Any new comments yet?" (Waits a while.) "Any new comments yet?"
And each time your browser silently asks that question, the server chimes in: "Hello, I've seen you before. The last time you visited was...". So if you linger with a thread open in a tab somewhere, your browser is continually conversing with the server even though you're not clicking around opening new pages. That could make the new comment numbers seem inflated because they don't reset after 15 minutes of inactivity like they used to.
If the new comment counts are more useful to you than inline comment updates, you can disable inline comment updates in your profile. That should help make session times a little more accurate. You could also try to navigate away from threads if you're not actively reading them. That might help give the server a better sense of when you're really there.
posted by pb (staff) at 9:03 AM on February 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
You're at work in the morning. After a few productive hours you decide to reward yourself with a break. You head over to MetaFilter to see what's happening in the world. You open your browser for the first time and click your MetaFilter bookmark.
The Metafilter server says (in its own way), "Hello, I've seen you before. The last time you visited was yesterday at 4:45 pm. I'll indicate new comments posted since then. I will also set the current time as your last visited time for your next visit."
You click on a thread to read the comments. When you do that, the MetaFilter server says (in its own way), "Hello, I've seen you before. The last time you visited was today less than 1 minute ago. No need to reset new comments posted since then. Carry on."
You read through the thread, go back to the front page, read a few more. Each time the MetaFilter server registers your activity and makes a decision about whether or not to reset new comment counts for you.
You get a phone call. It's an important client meeting that lasts 20 minutes. You decide to reward yourself with a break. You open MetaFilter and the server says, "Hello, I've seen you before. The last time you visited was 25 minutes ago. I'll go ahead and indicate new comments posted since then. I will also set the current time as your last visited time for your next visit."
Because more than 15 minutes elapsed without activity on the site, the server reset your session and gave you some new new comment counts.
HOWEVER, a couple weeks ago we added inline comment updates and that could have an effect on front page new comment counts. Here's how:
You're back at work and you load a thread. The MetaFilter server says its standard hello. With inline comments on, your browser joins the conversation in the background. Your browser says, "Any new comments yet?" (Waits 30 seconds.) "Any new comments yet?" (Waits a while.) "Any new comments yet?"
And each time your browser silently asks that question, the server chimes in: "Hello, I've seen you before. The last time you visited was...". So if you linger with a thread open in a tab somewhere, your browser is continually conversing with the server even though you're not clicking around opening new pages. That could make the new comment numbers seem inflated because they don't reset after 15 minutes of inactivity like they used to.
If the new comment counts are more useful to you than inline comment updates, you can disable inline comment updates in your profile. That should help make session times a little more accurate. You could also try to navigate away from threads if you're not actively reading them. That might help give the server a better sense of when you're really there.
posted by pb (staff) at 9:03 AM on February 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Because more than 15 minutes elapsed without activity on the site, the server reset your session and gave you some new new comment counts.
Has this changed recently? I often load the front page and then immediately click "Older posts" to look over threads from a few days ago; this usually gets me "new comment" notifications from those threads. Today, my new posts/comments count reset as soon as I clicked "Older posts", as though the server resets my session whenever I load a page, regardless of when I last visited. The net result is that I can't get new comment counts from any threads not on the front page.
This doesn't seem directly related to the inline updates feature; I've been using that for a couple of days without a problem. I tried disabling it, but that didn't change anything. I also tried clearing my cookies and logging in again, just to be sure this wasn't caused by a corrupted cookie, but that didn't change anything either.
posted by Tau Wedel at 10:12 AM on February 18, 2011
Has this changed recently? I often load the front page and then immediately click "Older posts" to look over threads from a few days ago; this usually gets me "new comment" notifications from those threads. Today, my new posts/comments count reset as soon as I clicked "Older posts", as though the server resets my session whenever I load a page, regardless of when I last visited. The net result is that I can't get new comment counts from any threads not on the front page.
This doesn't seem directly related to the inline updates feature; I've been using that for a couple of days without a problem. I tried disabling it, but that didn't change anything. I also tried clearing my cookies and logging in again, just to be sure this wasn't caused by a corrupted cookie, but that didn't change anything either.
posted by Tau Wedel at 10:12 AM on February 18, 2011
Has this changed recently?
No it hasn't. But someone just MeFi Mailed the same report about Ask, Tau Wedel. (MeFi checked out ok for them.) I'm going through the session code at Ask now to see if I can track down a problem.
posted by pb (staff) at 10:15 AM on February 18, 2011
No it hasn't. But someone just MeFi Mailed the same report about Ask, Tau Wedel. (MeFi checked out ok for them.) I'm going through the session code at Ask now to see if I can track down a problem.
posted by pb (staff) at 10:15 AM on February 18, 2011
I just (maybe two minutes ago) had the same thing happen to me on MeTa — I looked at the first page and it said "X new posts and Y new comments since your last visit". I clicked "<>
It's surprisingly frustrating, especially on AskMe. Not being able to click the "xx new" link to see the new comments only is annoying.
posted by Lexica at 10:26 AM on February 18, 2011
It's surprisingly frustrating, especially on AskMe. Not being able to click the "xx new" link to see the new comments only is annoying.
posted by Lexica at 10:26 AM on February 18, 2011
After a few productive hours you decide to reward yourself with a break.
Ha!
posted by wayland at 11:13 AM on February 18, 2011
Ha!
posted by wayland at 11:13 AM on February 18, 2011
Erf. Make that "I clicked 'Older posts' and when it loaded page 2, it said '0 new posts and 0 new comments since your last visit'."
posted by Lexica at 12:22 PM on February 18, 2011
posted by Lexica at 12:22 PM on February 18, 2011
This just got even weirder. MeFi is behaving normally for me, now, but MeTa has gotten worse. I no longer get new comment notifications on MeTa at all; whenever I load the front page of MeTa, it says "no posts and no comments posted since your last visit" regardless of the actual number of new posts and comments.
posted by Tau Wedel at 2:10 PM on February 18, 2011
posted by Tau Wedel at 2:10 PM on February 18, 2011
I've been working on this today. We definitely had weirdness around sessions at Ask and MetaTalk. You might try logging out, closing your browser completely, restarting, and then logging in again. See if your MetaTalk sessions improve.
posted by pb (staff) at 2:15 PM on February 18, 2011
posted by pb (staff) at 2:15 PM on February 18, 2011
Things seem fixed to be (MeTa and Ask) - thanks!
posted by radicarian at 3:25 PM on February 18, 2011
posted by radicarian at 3:25 PM on February 18, 2011
You might try logging out, closing your browser completely, restarting, and then logging in again.
Nope, no change in behaviour.
posted by Tau Wedel at 4:20 AM on February 19, 2011
Nope, no change in behaviour.
posted by Tau Wedel at 4:20 AM on February 19, 2011
...and right after I posted that, I loaded the front page of MeTa, and was greeted with a message indicating 3 new comments. Pretty sure the server's just trolling me, now. Hopefully everything's back in order.
posted by Tau Wedel at 4:24 AM on February 19, 2011
posted by Tau Wedel at 4:24 AM on February 19, 2011
Hm. Currently, when I load the front page of MeTa, I get correct new comment notifications on the individual threads, but the count in the upper right corner reads "no new posts and no new comments". However, if I reload the page, it changes to show the correct total count. So my session seems to be working just fine, but something's wonky with the calculation of the total count of new posts and comments. It's not really an issue, since the counts for each thread are correct, but I thought you might like to know anyway, pb.
And thanks for fixing the issue with sessions resetting incorrectly.
posted by Tau Wedel at 11:55 AM on February 19, 2011
And thanks for fixing the issue with sessions resetting incorrectly.
posted by Tau Wedel at 11:55 AM on February 19, 2011
yeah, looks like it was waiting one page view after starting a session to update the counts in the upper-right corner of the front page. That should be working now.
posted by pb (staff) at 1:16 PM on February 19, 2011
posted by pb (staff) at 1:16 PM on February 19, 2011
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posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:36 AM on February 18, 2011