Good Morning Mr. Haughey, we would like to ask you about the death of... July 21, 2011 11:53 PM   Subscribe

In which AskMefi, get's a prime slot on Law and Order:Criminal Intent

So, try to drink liquid poison. If it makes you sick, you're not a believer as per Mark, and so you won't be able to cast out demons, either.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 8:25 PM on July 21


Yes, I fully know and at least assume this was spoken entirely tongue in cheek. In the same respect, this happens to one person having a bad day, and all of a sudden Matt, and every Mod is getting deposed. Should this not be looked at, as some bad advice that as a community, we would really rather not see the worst of?
posted by timsteil to MetaFilter-Related at 11:53 PM (122 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite

link
posted by andoatnp at 11:59 PM on July 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


I don't think that the agnostic OP is in any danger if they drink liquid poison in their dream, you know the recurring one they were in fact asking about, even if they are having a bad day in it.
posted by Blasdelb at 12:03 AM on July 22, 2011


I think I figured out what your post is saying but it took some doing.

If I am correct about your intent I agree that people probably shouldn't advise others to drink poison.
posted by Justinian at 12:03 AM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


It's a weird question and the answers are equally weird. I was really surprised to read both. Very non-Metafiltery.
posted by Punctual at 12:07 AM on July 22, 2011


If I am correct about your intent I agree that people probably shouldn't advise others to drink poison.

Well, at least not the non-Christians.
posted by andoatnp at 12:12 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


reminds me of how pissed I was about having a " 'help me break the law' " Ask deleted while the most popular Ask ever is the one about how to dispose of a dead body.

...but at the moment I'm actually more pissed about the fact that AskMeFi isn't really on an episode of Law and Order, so... yeah.
posted by herbplarfegan at 12:14 AM on July 22, 2011 [20 favorites]


I also do not think that the asker is in danger of dying from drinking poison in a dream.

I will happily assert that the asker should not drink poison in their actual waking life. I am not sure that is anything remotely under consideration. If this is a point of contention, maybe drop the asker an email to inquire, otherwise I think that, questions of theological/somnomancical/whatever substance of the askme aside, there's not really a problem here.

To reiterate: nobody should actually drink poison, please. Not a good idea.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:34 AM on July 22, 2011 [5 favorites]


So your best case scenario is to have a bunch of demons running around, due to fear of possible legal action?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:40 AM on July 22, 2011 [10 favorites]


I am a little bit concerned about the poster, not because of the poison but persistent demon ideation, even in dreams, can't be a good sign for their mental health.
posted by scalefree at 12:42 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Jesus. A mystery meat MeTa? I seriously thought AskMe somehow got featured on L&O (not impossible - it was mentioned on Treme not long ago), which would have been awesome — but it turns out to be this? As Mr. White said, "You shoot me in a dream, you better wake up and apologize."
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:42 AM on July 22, 2011 [24 favorites]


I also do not think that the asker is in danger of dying from drinking poison in a dream.

I will happily assert that the asker should not drink poison in their actual waking life. I am not sure that is anything remotely under consideration.


Yeah, but how do you really know the top stopped spinning?
posted by juv3nal at 12:45 AM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


To be fair to obiwanwasabi, the suggestion to drink liquid poison in a dream appears to have a sound basis in scripture.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 12:51 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


I thought that years ago someone posted a suggestion that the OP mix bleach and ammonia as a solution to their question, which seems particularly cruel, but it must have been deleted.
posted by cmonkey at 1:05 AM on July 22, 2011


I hate these busy-body, goody-goody, hall monitor type Metatalk posts. So lame.
posted by jayder at 1:19 AM on July 22, 2011 [11 favorites]


I had a lot of trouble parsing this post, especially as when I finally worked out what it was about, it turned out to be a little off the wall.
As near as I can tell, you are concerned that somebody seeking advice for how to battle demons in a dream, who was advised to test their dreamworld demon-casting abilities by drinking poison, might somehow die (as a result of drinking dream poison, or by drinking real poison "if they are having a bad day") and then the police will arrest the site moderators and the district attorneys will take their statements and then at a future time it will be the plot for a Law and Order episode.
And you think this is a risk Matt should take action to protect the mods/TV-viewers/poison-drinkers from by deleting a post?
Is that you, sixcolors?
posted by bystander at 1:21 AM on July 22, 2011 [5 favorites]


So... the site is *not* featured on L&O?
posted by J. Wilson at 1:50 AM on July 22, 2011 [7 favorites]


Will the depositions be dream depositions?
posted by longsleeves at 2:02 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Can we stop being dicks to sixcolors already?
posted by 6550 at 2:03 AM on July 22, 2011 [7 favorites]


This post is a failure on all possible metrics.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 2:22 AM on July 22, 2011


This post had me convinced I was dreaming about reading MetaFilter.
posted by likeso at 2:31 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


If you are willing to drink poison on the say-so of a comment on the Internet, then I don't think you can really blame the comment for your death.
posted by DU at 2:54 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


The fuck, is what I'm asking, question: mark.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:56 AM on July 22, 2011 [18 favorites]


I drink diet soda. Many people tell me it's poison. Thinking about, my wife is especially vocal in this respect. Her "one day, you'll see!" is a bit troubling, actually. Hm.
posted by maxwelton at 3:42 AM on July 22, 2011


CHUNG CHUNG!
posted by zarq at 3:52 AM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


What's your poison - lemonade?
Velveteen or a razor blade?
posted by bwg at 3:54 AM on July 22, 2011


I drink diet soda. Many people tell me it's poison.

If it's poison would it take so good? NO. Therefore it's a gift from God and you should relax and enjoy it as much as you can.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:56 AM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


I guess you'd have to have a television to know that Law and Order: CI doesn't exist anymore.

Like demons!
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:02 AM on July 22, 2011


If I ask you, "If everyone else jumped off a bridge...?" and then you did (and plummeted to your death), no court on the Earth would convict me.

Bwahahahahahaha! BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 4:10 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


They cleaned up the derails over there, so my comment went with it, but what I stated was that the Bible is very clear that you don't tempt God-and deliberately drinking poison would have been under that category.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:15 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


When I was a little kid I thought casting out demons had something to do with fishing and always looked for lures called demon at the bait and tackle shop.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 4:33 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


the Bible is very clear that you don't tempt God

[long rant deleted before hitting post: you should goddamned well know better, ConAlia, than to pull that shit here. I love ya and all, but.]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:40 AM on July 22, 2011


...The Bible is very clear that you don't tempt God-and deliberately drinking poison would have been under that category.

I'm thinking the sort of people who are going to use their faith and devotion to pull parlor tricks and win bar bets (rather than feeding those who hunger, giving water to those who thirst, comforting the sick, clothing the destitute, etc.) are not exactly the type who reads the fine print.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 4:44 AM on July 22, 2011 [4 favorites]


A link would help.
posted by Omnomnom at 4:58 AM on July 22, 2011


you should goddamned well know better, ConAlia, than to pull that shit here.

so if we're discussing the bible, among other things, she's not allowed to comment?

no one's making you look or participate - and it seems to me that it would be fairer to argue that this matter shouldn't be discussed by anyone here rather than just one poster
posted by pyramid termite at 5:00 AM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


herbplarfegan: "reminds me of how pissed I was about having a " 'help me break the law' " Ask deleted while the most popular Ask ever is the one about how to dispose of a dead body."

Actually, the most popular Question ever is the one about "What single book is the best introduction to your field (or specialization within your field) for laypeople?". The question you're referring to has about one-sixth as many favorites.

Or do you mean answer? Because the most popular Answer ever is the one about Ask Culture vs. Guess Culture. The answer you're referring to has a bit more than half as many favorites. (It's currently the sixth-most-favorited comment on AskMe.)
posted by Plutor at 5:07 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


To reiterate: nobody should actually drink poison, please. Not a good idea.

...except when the poison is in carefully limited doses and supervised by a physician and/or pharmacist, as in digoxin.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:16 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think the tags (s)he used for the question (suicide, religion) are very telling. I don't think his/her dreams are the only thing he's concerned about.
posted by Tarumba at 5:16 AM on July 22, 2011


I would love to post more detail but I am in the middle of moving across town and I am just online while I am scarfing down some cheese toast.


Carry on.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:20 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Actualy, if Matt were interviewed on Law and Order:CI, the exchange would probably go more like " ... Mr. Haughey ... *grimace* I was wondering ... if I could have a word with you? ... You run Metafilter, don't you? *grimace* ... Have you ever told anyone to drink poison?" Well, if it were Goren.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:37 AM on July 22, 2011


If it's not Goren don't bother.
posted by Jahaza at 5:42 AM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


what I stated was that the Bible is very clear that you don't tempt God-and deliberately drinking poison would have been under that category.

Email the OP at the point at which your off-topic comments are being deleted, don't drag that stuff over here. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:47 AM on July 22, 2011


no one's making you look or participate - and it seems to me that it would be fairer to argue that this matter shouldn't be discussed by anyone here rather than just one poster

I'm going to have to ask you to explain your point more clearly, if you're so inclined, because I haven't got a clue what the point is that you're trying to make.

But, to be honest: I also don't care all that much. So don't feel beholden or anything.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:47 AM on July 22, 2011


"Get's"? Really?
posted by unSane at 5:57 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


Cheese toast? Really?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:00 AM on July 22, 2011


Perhaps Le Tigre could be of assistance?

(Shock-of-the-new Spotify link.)
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:07 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Who's getting deposed now? I'm very confused.
posted by koeselitz at 6:11 AM on July 22, 2011


i once cast out cheese-toast in the name of Velveeta.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:23 AM on July 22, 2011 [8 favorites]


Honestly, it's a very strange question from the beginning, starting with: For the sake of this question, assume everything in the Bible is true/real. It's not at all surprising that it went off the rails quickly.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:23 AM on July 22, 2011


Are you completely sure I'm not dreaming right now? Because this is just like the beginning of my recurring dream where I am being chased by a giant strawberry.
posted by subbes at 6:29 AM on July 22, 2011



Actually, whatever you think of her personally, why isn't Alia's answer on point? Obiwanwasabi uses scripture to suggest an experiment. Alia points out that scripture is not not clear on how good an idea that is. I mean, to me, it's like trying to compare damage per second from Zeus's lightning bolts vs. Thor's hammer, but given the assumptions in the question, how can it be discussed without injecting your views on Biblical injunctions?
posted by tyllwin at 6:29 AM on July 22, 2011 [4 favorites]


stavrosthewonderchicken: " [long rant deleted before hitting post: you should goddamned well know better, ConAlia, than to pull that shit here. I love ya and all, but.]"

Did you read the question? I'm asking this quite seriously. The question is about Christian theology and the Bible. St. Alia's answer would have been perfectly appropriate and on topic.
posted by zarq at 6:35 AM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


Well, somebody's certainly been drinking something.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 6:52 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


Alia's statement was responding to the "poison" comment, not the question itself.
posted by Think_Long at 6:56 AM on July 22, 2011


Tom Collins. But only in hot weather.
posted by tyllwin at 6:58 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Added a link to MeTa in the question. I would think that IndigoRain might like to know that people are discussing it here.
posted by zarq at 7:01 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


A Tom Collins, with a bit of orchid, in Laos is like the best damn thing ever.

OK, yes, it's all colonialist & deeply dismissive of local poverty, but seriously: faaantastic.
posted by aramaic at 7:04 AM on July 22, 2011


I've been drinking black myrrh again.
posted by BeerFilter at 7:07 AM on July 22, 2011


I watched about seven seasons of Criminal Intent, in a row, when I was underemployed. You know what one episode had? A fake Crass poster.

I love the idea of Penny Rimbaud, Steve Ignorant, et. al. going to court for copyright infringement.
posted by griphus at 7:10 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


But, but, if I don't drink poison, how the hell am I supposed to get drunk on the weekends? It's not like this whiskey is going to pour itself down my throat...
posted by quin at 7:24 AM on July 22, 2011


Man, I've got to make some coffee or something.
posted by box at 7:25 AM on July 22, 2011


Think_Long: "Alia's statement was responding to the "poison" comment, not the question itself."

The poison comment was a direct response to the question asked in the FPP -- specifically about belief and strength of belief. And St. Alia's response to it was therefore appropriate, not a derail.
posted by zarq at 7:30 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


I really like the idea of "tempting God." It's like, sure, He's all-powerful and everything, but...
posted by Sys Rq at 7:31 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is a problem that goes beyond MetaFilter and I think we should really focus on the children here. Schools should do a better job of teaching kids that drinking poison isn't cool and won't make you popular. Impressionable children read about Socrates and think "Hey, why don't I drink some poison too?" Teachers should make it clear that Socrates is not a role model and they should advocate responsible poison usage. They should also remove anything that glamorizes poison use (such as Hamlet) from the curriculum, and poisonous substances should be removed from the periodic tables used in science classes.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:34 AM on July 22, 2011 [10 favorites]


Jessamyn, is there any way I could trouble you to memail me the content of my now-deleted comment? I'd like to repost it here, somewhere St. Alia will see it. I feel she's inaccurately co-opting Jewish beliefs to prove a point.
posted by zarq at 7:39 AM on July 22, 2011


Also, I demand that all references to Bell Biv DeVoe's 'Poison' be removed from our nation's public schools.
posted by box at 7:49 AM on July 22, 2011 [5 favorites]


If I were a demon I would make this lame meta lamer by re-hashing the ask.
posted by angrycat at 7:54 AM on July 22, 2011


is there any way I could trouble you to memail me the content of my now-deleted comment?

Can you please just take that to email [I'll MeMail you the comment] That sort of conversation should really take place between the two of you and not really here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:58 AM on July 22, 2011


tyllwin: "I mean, to me, it's like trying to compare damage per second from Zeus's lightning bolts vs. Thor's hammer"

Well, Zeus can cast lightning bolt once per round for 4D10 points of damage. Thor, on the other hand, can do 100 points of damage per day with Mjolnir, but that requires a Strength of 25 to wield.

Now, that's all under 2E, so your mileage may vary.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:05 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


jessamyn: "Can you please just take that to email "

OK.
posted by zarq at 8:09 AM on July 22, 2011


Criminal Intent is gomer pyle.
posted by Debaser626 at 8:21 AM on July 22, 2011


This metatalk is bizarre.
posted by the young rope-rider at 8:27 AM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


Just want to note that, reading the 'suicide' tag here and reading the question in the askme, there is a perhaps unintentional implication that the author of the ask is in a suicidal state. The tag seems to me to be a huuuuuuuuge mistake, and maybe not a benign one.
posted by angrycat at 8:35 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


One man's poison is another man's poison.
posted by Sailormom at 8:40 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


In the same respect, this happens to one person having a bad day, and all of a sudden Matt, and every Mod is getting deposed.

---

The tag seems to me to be a huuuuuuuuge mistake, and maybe not a benign one.


I think everyone is probably ascribing way more power to this website than it actually has.
posted by Think_Long at 8:42 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


They should also remove anything that glamorizes poison use (such as Hamlet) from the curriculum, and poisonous substances should be removed from the periodic tables used in science classes.

Favorited for satiric excellence.

And schizophrenic kinslayer mama's boy Hamlet was always unworthy of Horatio's fealty and Ophelia's affection, anyway. Our kids should study Macbeth if they want to see how it's done. Kinslaying all over the damned place, and not nearly so much collateral damage. I mean, really, Laertes and Polonious never did a thing to Hamlet, wtf was that all about?
posted by misha at 8:42 AM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


In plainer language, it portrays the asker as being mentally ill, when I didn't see a basis for that in the question. This could have two effects a) I mean what the fuck you don't just start calling people crazy for no reason and b) this could discourage people from asking questions that are outside the norm.

I recall a question regarding whether or not somebody could pull their head off with their own hands, or something like that. I'm glad the person who asked that didn't think -- 'yeah, if I do that [something like this metatalk] will happen so fuck that.'
posted by angrycat at 8:48 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think everyone is probably ascribing way more power to this website than it actually has.

As member of the Homo Superior species, the powers and abilities of this website have been classed in the Omega-level range. Do not attempt to take the remote control from it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:57 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Just FYI, I'm friends with the asker on various social networks, and based on prior experience she may not chime in for awhile. She's usually online later in the day due to either a non-traditional sleep schedule or lack of Internet access at work, not sure which. So lack of response shouldn't be construed as anything.
posted by desjardins at 9:03 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Just want to note that, reading the 'suicide' tag here and reading the question in the askme, there is a perhaps unintentional implication that the author of the ask is in a suicidal state. The tag seems to me to be a huuuuuuuuge mistake, and maybe not a benign one.
posted by angrycat


Good thinking, angrycat!

I believe you've divined what timstell is worried about.

It's true that some people, in some states of mind, would read a declaration that someone should take poison and, no matter what the context, feel an impulse to do it.

But even though Metafilter is a voice in the head of everyone who reads it, and for some people what such voices say can be compulsions, no one, as cortex has said, should ever take poison.
posted by jamjam at 9:21 AM on July 22, 2011


herbplarfegan writes "reminds me of how pissed I was about having a ' "help me break the law" ' Ask deleted while the most popular Ask ever is the one about how to dispose of a dead body."

Policy changed between that question being posted and your sign up. IE: you've got to let it go.
posted by Mitheral at 9:28 AM on July 22, 2011


If Matt were interviewed on Law and Order:CI...

He and Vincent D'onofrio would probably give each other wicked-bad concussions.

Also, I do not like this MeTa. It's unclear, poorly presented, and not in any way conducive to a constructive outcome. It's a bag of shit.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:44 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah, is this going to go anywhere good or useful?
posted by Gator at 10:07 AM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


To reiterate: nobody should actually drink poison, please. Not a good idea.

...except when the poison is in carefully limited doses and supervised by a physician and/or pharmacist, as in digoxin.


Put another way, even supposedly benign substances can be poisonous in the wrong quantity, and poisons can be harmless (or even beneficial) in small quantities, so instead of focusing on an arbitrary poison / non-poison dichotomy based on substance, wouldn't it be better to advise people not to ingest fatally toxic quantities of any substance?
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:37 AM on July 22, 2011


DILUTE! DILUTE!
posted by malocchio at 12:02 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Homeopathy!
posted by box at 12:28 PM on July 22, 2011


herbplarfegan: ...while the most popular Ask ever...

Plutor: Actually, the most popular Question ever...

Thanks-- nice infodump-dive. My omission: I meant a tapering of "most" as would be with implied, say, with the use of the word "like."

as in: "Father had pea soup covering, like, most of his body."
posted by herbplarfegan at 12:34 PM on July 22, 2011


Not only is drinking poison generally a bad idea, but everything after Mark 16:8 is a later addition that doesn't appear in the oldest manuscripts, so you would be taking a stupid action based on a ridiculously literalistic reading of a verse that is a poorly substantiated textual variant. I don't care what brand of Christian someone may be, as your friendly neighborhood Bible nerd, I'm telling you to back away from the medicine cabinet. Even in your dreams. Practice safe sects.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:35 PM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


with with with 3-minute window grar
posted by herbplarfegan at 12:35 PM on July 22, 2011


Metafilter: a ridiculously literalistic reading of a verse that is a poorly substantiated textual variant.
posted by herbplarfegan at 12:36 PM on July 22, 2011


AskMe: Should I drink this poison? Please hope me.
posted by misha at 1:17 PM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


....so, if I wait long enough will this conversation get around to tackling the angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin thing? I'm just curious.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:27 PM on July 22, 2011


Tackling angels on the head of a pin is never advisable. Just trust me on this.
posted by owtytrof at 1:57 PM on July 22, 2011 [4 favorites]


This is the most annoyingly-framed post in some time. L&O:CI is gone and you're acting like there are secret episodes being made that I can't watch. So disappointed. Goren would amazingly know everything about the TCP/IP stack, probably from his days as a Marine, and that would be the end of Matt.
posted by yerfatma at 2:00 PM on July 22, 2011


reminds me of how pissed I was about having a " 'help me break the law' " Ask deleted while the most popular Ask ever is the one about how to dispose of a dead body.

Yeah...its rather inconsistent here.
posted by hal_c_on at 2:08 PM on July 22, 2011


Keep in mind that that famous AskMe answer about disposing the body is simply horrible advice, so if anyone followed it they would probably get caught by the authorities.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 2:15 PM on July 22, 2011


consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

Seriously.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:22 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

a foolish consistency ...
posted by jayder at 2:59 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


I get kind of tired of making this point, but scarabic's corpse-removal answer was posted in the middle of 2004, seven years ago, when AskMe was still in its infancy, guidelines had not been hammered out, and Matt was running this operation solo.

To hold it up as some sort of reference against which to measure modern askme is absolute silliness. It is a footless argument that speaks if anything to a serious failure to comprehend the history of the site and the reality that conventions and cultural expectations evolve over time. You could as soon argue for unfettered self-links on the front page, since that was the state of play in the first year or so of the blue.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:44 PM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


Mark 16:17 makes it pretty clear that this is something that only believers can do - at least, it's specifically a sign of their belief. Elsewhere, the power to cast out demons is specifically bestowed on individuals by Christ - the disciples, the Seventy Two.

So, try to drink liquid poison. If it makes you sick, you're not a believer as per Mark, and so you won't be able to cast out demons, either.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 8:25 PM


THIS is what I was talking about. Someone giving advice to someone who says they are hearing demons in their head, to drink poison. I think that is wrong, un Me-worthy, and plain not Cricket.

Also, my main thng, was thinking "Holy Crap..if this person drinks poison and kills themselves., it falls into the lap of every mod, and possibly every user who comented.

What has followed has been ridiculous, Jerk after jerk trying to assert some sort of moral, biblical or intellectual superiority, you know, with a fun link.

It was one MeFite, hearing demons in their dreams. I thought it was maybe untoward to tell them to drink poison ( totally NOT in their dream if you read the text) to see if they are a Christian. I got in touch with this person right away, and tried to make sure they were OK.

What do you guys got? The Manga version of why I am an asshole or something?

Some days, this place dissapoints the hell out of me.
posted by timsteil at 4:14 PM on July 22, 2011


everything after Mark 16:8 is a later addition that doesn't appear in the oldest manuscripts

LOLXtians.

'Demons are definitely real, and you get a bonus to hit and damage if your Wisdom is high or if Jesus has cast Bless on you personally, but no immunity to poison, and no free Cure Heavy Wounds, and no...no Sticks to Snakes, or whatever. Yeah, I know, but that was a later supplement. What do you mean, later than what? Yes, I know it's canonical, but...yes, I know there's stuff from there that also made it into Matthew and Lu...look, we're just not sure about the quality control over some of the bits near the back, OK? Are we going to play or not? Fucking roll for initiative already.'

Anyways: the OP specifically said that 'for the sake of this question, assume everything in the Bible is true/real.' So I assumed an ordinary dictionary definition of 'everything', and I did. Guess how that turned out, what with the Bible being renowned for its crystal clarity and impeccable consistency that leaves its believers in no doubt whatsoever about how things work.

Now I'm giving you all a somewhat gruff hug, with hover hands, because the comment box says I have to.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:16 PM on July 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


Shoulda previewed:

THIS is what I was talking about. Someone giving advice to someone who says they are hearing demons in their head, to drink poison. I think that is wrong, un Me-worthy, and plain not Cricket.

No, it was somebody who's an agnostic come atheist who doesn't believe in the Christian god who's dreaming about demons and who's asked us to make a hypothetical guess about how things would work in a hypothetical world where everything in the Bible is true.

Also, my main thng, was thinking "Holy Crap..if this person drinks poison and kills themselves., it falls into the lap of every mod, and possibly every user who comented.

See, my main thing would have been thinking 'Oh no, somebody died', not 'Somebody could get sued, and that might inconvenience me!'

Some days, this place dissapoints the hell out of me.

So...Metafilter is casting demons out of you, now?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:22 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


My omission: I meant a tapering of "most" as would be with implied, say, with the use of the word "like."

as in: "Father had pea soup covering, like, most of his body."


I've been sitting here trying to figure out what this means and am still baffled. "Tapering of 'most'"? Huh?
posted by Lexica at 4:25 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Note: Everyone needs a gruff hug with hover hands.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:45 PM on July 22, 2011


See, my main thing would have been thinking 'Oh no, somebody died', not 'Somebody could get sued, and that might inconvenience me!'

Obi, it probably wouldnt have inconvienced me.

My thought was, What kind of cloth-headed heartless fool would say that to someone who is obviously in pain and needed a friend, not a smartass right then.

I did have a secondary concern, about MeFi in general, wondering what would happen to the founder and mods, should a vulnerable person take bad advice that no one had a chance to edit. Swear to god, if I stubbed my toe, there is probably someone I could sue. Maybe you.

And yeah, what if, "Somebody died."

How bout you look back at what you wrote, making a joke of this poor person's plight, and again assert your intellectual superiority assuming this person took your advice, and was now dead.

I'm a lot of things. But I'm not you.

Whatcha got to say? Something that borders on clever?
posted by timsteil at 4:52 PM on July 22, 2011


What kind of cloth-headed heartless fool

what
posted by Sys Rq at 5:08 PM on July 22, 2011


Did you read the question? I'm asking this quite seriously. The question is about Christian theology and the Bible. St. Alia's answer would have been perfectly appropriate and on topic.

No, I didn't. My bad. I was under impression the Bible bullshit was a random irruption, sorry.

cloth-headed

It is a common adjective in UK English.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:27 PM on July 22, 2011


Cloth-eared. Blockheaded.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:53 PM on July 22, 2011


Wonderchicken, you SO owe me a diet Coke (or a beer) should we ever meet. I mean it.

Obiwanwasabi, I have to confess that I get a little annoyed when people make comments such as yours. There is an entire college course called heurmaneutics-the purpose of which is to teach how to properly interpret the Bible. Every verse relates to every other verse, and you can't just pull a passage out on its own without considering how it fits with the rest of the whole.

I understand that you were more interested in giving a snarkflavored answer to the OP rather than being a theologian but do consider that for some of us that Book is sacred, and it is unpleasant to see misleading explanations out there. There has been a lot of historic human tragedy as a result of improper heurmaneutical exegesis of the Bible. I would prefer if it not be added to even as a lark.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:07 PM on July 22, 2011


Cloth-eared. Blockheaded.

Whoops. Right you are.

Wonderchicken, you SO owe me a diet Coke (or a beer) should we ever meet. I mean it.

Beer it is!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:14 PM on July 22, 2011


St. Alia: You mean hermeneutics, and specifically Biblical hermeneutics, a subset of the discipline of hermeneutics, which is the study of interpretation in general.
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:26 PM on July 22, 2011


I've only ever heard of it in connection with Bible colleges, but it's interesting to know it is part of a wider discipline.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:37 PM on July 22, 2011


a subset of the discipline of hermeneutics, which is the study of interpretation in general.

In contrast to hermanneuticles, artificial balls the size of Herman Munsters'.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:46 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


How bout you look back at what you wrote, making a joke of this poor person's plight, and again assert your intellectual superiority assuming this person took your advice, and was now dead.

I did what I was asked to do. I imagined the Bible was real. I sought out those passages that indicated whether belief was a necessary condition for casting out demons. I found a verse that specifically distinguished between believers and non-believers, and set criteria by which the latter could be identified. I indicated that testing for one criteria might well be a suitable test for the existence of the others. I felt no qualms about doing this whatsoever given that the poster made it abundantly clear (though not enough for some, apparently) that they had rejected the Christian god and were leaning toward atheism, that they were talking about a hypothetical universe, and that they were talking about dreams.

and again assert your intellectual superiority assuming this person took your advice

You keep on making assumptions. How's that working out for you?

Obiwanwasabi, I have to confess that I get a little annoyed when people make comments such as yours.

This is my surprised face.

There is an entire college course called heurmaneutics-the purpose of which is to teach how to properly interpret the Bible

And it's bullshit, just like the college courses on reiki, or acupuncture, or reading auras, or healing with crystals, or contacting the dead. You might as well have a college course on how to correctly interpret The Lord of the Rings, complete with arguments about whether Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White are the same person, different people, or different people who are facets of the same being. Except there are people alive today who knew Tolkien and might be able to comment with some authority that doesn't rest on closing your eyes and talking to something that isn't there.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 7:23 PM on July 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


Gee, I guess I was wrong. This thread is going somewhere good and useful.
posted by Gator at 7:26 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Okay before everyone freaks out... I haven't even had a chance to finish reading this thread because I've been at work all day, but since I have gotten several Mefi Mails:

I asked a simple factual question about the Bible. The dreams are not bothering me in my waking life. I am not hallucinating, I have never done any kind of illegal drug. I'm not going to drink poison or try to kill myself or anything like that. In fact, the demons in my dreams would be shamed by Hollywood demons (a la Paranormal Activity) because my dream demons are more like cartoon characters. One came out in the dream and tried to scare us by like, making faces (I was with others in the dream) and I said "In the name of Jesus go away" and it did.
posted by IndigoRain at 7:39 PM on July 22, 2011 [7 favorites]


scalefree: "I am a little bit concerned about the poster, not because of the poison but persistent demon ideation, even in dreams, can't be a good sign for their mental health."

Once every 6 months or so is really not bad, and the dreams are not particularly bothering me when I am awake. I just wanted to know what the Bible said about it. I'm not going back to the faith. I don't really believe there are demons after me. I'm not delusional. :)

Tarumba: "suicide"

I did not tag the question with suicide. I am not suicidal. It must have been one of my contacts who did that.
posted by IndigoRain at 7:53 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yuck. Whoever did that needs a stern talking to.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:03 PM on July 22, 2011


Was a 'suicide' tag added and subsequently removed from the AskMe, or is Tarumba referring to the ones for this MeTa, which were a big, big part of my deciding it was a bag of shit (A decision that still stands, by the by)?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:13 PM on July 22, 2011


I thought you guys were saying it was added to my AskMe... there is not one there now. If Tarumba is indeed talking about the one for this question... well I obviously had nothing to do with that.

TimSteil did MeMail me last night and I answered within the hour. I am very sorry he thought I was suicidal or perhaps delusional. I am not. I kind of freaked out when I realized someone thought I was and contacted Jessamyn to tell her I wasn't without even reading the whole thread. I would never want to worry someone that way.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:18 PM on July 22, 2011


I used to think that yelling out my own name to wake up from nightmares was just simple lucid dreaming but since my name is 'Christian' I'm starting to wonder...
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:22 PM on July 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


as in: "Father had pea soup covering, like, most of his body."

you tell father that pea soup was meant for the church luncheon!
posted by addelburgh at 12:50 AM on July 23, 2011


Wow...I don't follow up on the askme post for a few days...impressive.

Am I surprised that this thread about dreams in which Jesus' name casts out cartoon character demons became one in which mefites gave theoretical responses encouraging the drinking of theoretical poison and ended up here? No. No I am not.

God, I love metafilter.


pun intended.
posted by guster4lovers at 10:06 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


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