One link is not a FPP. July 25, 2011 5:13 PM   Subscribe

Isn't this just a blatant advertisement on the front page?

I don't see how one link to an adult shop should be expanded into a FPP.
posted by woodjockey to Etiquette/Policy at 5:13 PM (74 comments total)

No, it's a link to an informative blog that happens to be part of a commercial enterprise.
posted by lalex at 5:17 PM on July 25, 2011


One link is not a FPP.

Also, what?
posted by lalex at 5:18 PM on July 25, 2011 [6 favorites]


I saw the post as uncharacteristically good content from a store selling products they seem quite knowledgeable about.

Sure it's sex toys, but the depth of knowledge in the lube article is the kind of expert advice you see in very few places. It reminded me of those times you meet a true craftsman doing something they love, and they know the decades of history they've been in business and can bring you up to speed when you ask what the best options/products are.

I thought it was a great post, since like I said, I hadn't seen helpful, descriptive, informative articles on that stuff before. That it was from a shop was unusual, but that doesn't rule out the usefulness of the advice and the link.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:18 PM on July 25, 2011 [8 favorites]


The post seems to be more about the interesting and helpful blog posts, it's just that people are talking more about the products. Seems like an okay post to me, and more than just a single link to a shop.
posted by Gator at 5:18 PM on July 25, 2011


It felt to me, while informative, hey look at all these products that are great, and here is a link to my site where you can buy them, type of thing.
posted by woodjockey at 5:21 PM on July 25, 2011


Wood is non-porous? Someone needs to tell the proprietor what "porosity" means....
posted by dfriedman at 5:21 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


It felt to me, while informative, hey look at all these products that are great, and here is a link to my site where you can buy them, type of thing.

Are you saying it's a self-link?
posted by FishBike at 5:23 PM on July 25, 2011


hey look at all these products that are great

One of the articles I read was saying one type of product is frequently bad and problematic and they carry a weird variant that might work. It didn't seem to be all rah-rah buy our stuff.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:26 PM on July 25, 2011


For what it's worth, I know Lutoslawksi and he is a good guy who has been to enough meetups with me that he should damned well know not to do anything dumb on the front page. I'll drop him a note to make sure there's nothing untoward here, but it's unlikely that that's the case.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:26 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


I did not know how to use a cock ring until this MeTa post, so I think it is AOK.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:28 PM on July 25, 2011 [35 favorites]


If it's an advert for things we like it's ok.
posted by joannemullen at 5:30 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


o.O
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:30 PM on July 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


Pretty sure it's not a self-link. Let it go.
posted by That's Numberwang! at 5:30 PM on July 25, 2011


I still feel like this type of thing is better suited to mefi projects. It just seems spammy to me.
posted by woodjockey at 5:31 PM on July 25, 2011


What basis do you have for thinking it's a self-link? Because the only way it would be suited to Projects would be if it's Lutoslawski's own site.
posted by Gator at 5:34 PM on July 25, 2011


If the creator isn't a MeFite, and I don't see any evidence they are, it definitely doesn't belong in Projects. Regardless of whether or not it fits on the front page (and my vote is it's fine).
posted by penduluum at 5:35 PM on July 25, 2011


/sadly takes jessamyn off the list of people to contact for advice on those topics.
posted by tomswift at 5:35 PM on July 25, 2011


If mathematics are involved, it's informative IMO. I think it's a nice layout, no ads' popping up per say, hardly knew the commerical aspect, to busy reading, ok then.
posted by clavdivs at 5:39 PM on July 25, 2011


I still feel like this type of thing is better suited to mefi projects. It just seems spammy to me.

To be clear, if it was Lutoslawski's shop/site that would be right on the money (and he'd be banned for self-linking). If it's not his shop/site/client/BFF/something-he-has-a-personal-stake-in, it's totally fine generally speaking and would in fact be wrong for Projects.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:40 PM on July 25, 2011


So if I started a blog and all links pointed back to my business, for sale, as well as the links on the FPP and had maybe an acquaintance front page it, that would be fine? I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, but I read metafilter because it is a diverse and eclectic mix of information and I feel yucky when I see a FPP like this which seems to be created simply to sell me something.
posted by woodjockey at 5:41 PM on July 25, 2011


No, that would not be fine. That would be explicitly not fine and would get your acquaintance banned. That does not appear to be at all what happened here.

Not liking posts that contain what can be read as advertising is totally fine, you can flag them and skip them and talk about them in Metatalk if you want to. That's a totally separate issue from the question of self-links, which are a pretty cut-and-dried policy issue and one of the few things that lead to routine bans around here, generally of driveby spammers.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:44 PM on July 25, 2011


But you don't have to buy anything. You can read the blog and use the knowledge you get there to buy things elsewhere. Or not buy anything.

Tons of links on the front page are one click away from "buy this!" content. It's not a problem in the way you think it is.
posted by rtha at 5:46 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's no ski resort, that's for sure.
posted by chinston at 5:47 PM on July 25, 2011 [6 favorites]


Oh, right: one link can certainly be an fpp.
posted by rtha at 5:48 PM on July 25, 2011


I feel like we've pretty clearly established that (a) the post is not a self-link; (b) it is not suitable for projects; (c) it is not actually spam; and (d) it is not likely to get deleted.

So is the issue with the content?
posted by That's Numberwang! at 5:52 PM on July 25, 2011 [4 favorites]


It reminded me of those times you meet a true craftsman doing something they love, and they know the decades of history they've been in business and can bring you up to speed when you ask what the best options/products are.

"This 20-inch double-headed dildo is hand-carved from purest Amazonian rubber by a tribal elder steeped in the timeless wisdom of traditional eco-aware ass-to-assery. We follow the strictest sextoy fair-trade practices, and promise that only the models that appear on the packaging are exploited!"
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:19 PM on July 25, 2011 [6 favorites]


[That's merely a joke. I am not exercised either way about the thread in question, although I am a little weary of the whole 'sex-positive' thing, I must admit.]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:21 PM on July 25, 2011


Got a problem with a post? The correct action is as it's always been:

Flag it and move on.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:24 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


So if I started a blog and all links pointed back to my business, for sale, as well as the links on the FPP and had maybe an acquaintance front page it, that would be fine?

I'm not carrying wood for this site, but I'm a little surprised by your tenacity here. You really have wood for this, don't you?
posted by octobersurprise at 6:30 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Flag it and move on" hasn't always been the correct action for people who have a problem with a post. I hope it isn't even the currently correct action. Flags are a fairly recent thing. I know Metafilter is no longer self-policing, but the idea that nobody gets to discuss aspects of the site that irk them is an alien one.

This is, in my opinion, a mistaken call-out in that the poster doesn't seem to understand the rules regarding prohibited links (self links and links to sites you're too close to) and the way projects works. It is however a perfectly good thing to complain about (it even has a cliche / in-joke term, "pepsi blue").
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:36 PM on July 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


Before people get too jokey, I'm going to point out that woodjockey doesn't seem to spend a ton of time on this site. He has almost as many comments as posts. I think this is a case of someone raising a valid concern and not realizing who was telling him it was a fine post.

I admire anyone who after having the site owner and two mods tell him it's a fine post can muster further objection.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:36 PM on July 25, 2011


Jeez, woodjockey, what's up your ass?

Oh, I see. What kind of batteries does that take?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:45 PM on July 25, 2011 [6 favorites]


jessamyn: "I did not know how to use a cock ring until this MeTa post, so I think it is AOK."

Call me...
posted by Splunge at 6:49 PM on July 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


It reminded me of those times you meet a true craftsman doing someone they love...

Fixed!
posted by loquacious at 6:59 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


You said wood.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 7:00 PM on July 25, 2011


Jeez, woodjockey, what's up your ass?

A small, carefully carved horse? That the creator forgot to sand and wax correctly? It was a fine horse. The kind that collectors fight over in auctions, and between themselves in terse letters and late phonecalls.

But ultimately, the beautiful, carefully carved horse... it had a small burr on the saddle. Most collectors would ignore that, and love the quality of the craftsmanship. But not the woodjockey that purchased it. That small burr... that imperfection... made him angry. It made him irritated and so the problem.

And now nobody escaped the wrath of... The WoodJockey!

Dum... Dum... DUM!
posted by Splunge at 7:01 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Post about sex toys gets some prick excited, yeah that sounds about right.
posted by FunkyHelix at 7:03 PM on July 25, 2011


muster, muster, muster.
posted by clavdivs at 7:03 PM on July 25, 2011


Was the carefully carved horse filled with Trojans?
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:04 PM on July 25, 2011 [5 favorites]


Is this all you people ever think about? Metafilter?
posted by maryr at 7:05 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Meta what?
posted by Splunge at 7:05 PM on July 25, 2011


There's a joke to be made about Pepsi Blue and "blue laws" but for the life of me I can't make it work.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:13 PM on July 25, 2011


The post is fine because Cyndi Lauper.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:16 PM on July 25, 2011 [8 favorites]


I wonder if "She Bop" was ever used as a campaign theme song for a female candidate for high office.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 7:31 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Prince Alberts for everyone!
posted by crunchland at 7:53 PM on July 25, 2011


I think Anne Coulter listens to it late at night in her hermetically sealed bunker. Of course any man or woman that notices it is killed. And the the meat is fed to Glenn Beck and Limbaugh.

They fight for the scraps like animals. Then it takes hours to clean them up for the TV. Of course the cleaners are eunuchs. And they have a simple saying:

Noting leaves the room. Not the bones, not the juice.

We love her. And...

We protect her.
posted by Splunge at 7:56 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


I wonder if "She Bop" was ever used as a campaign theme song for a female candidate for high office.

Yes, but they changed it to "She GOP"
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:58 PM on July 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


Got a problem with a post? The correct action is as it's always been:

Flag it and move on.


No. Feel the need to discuss a post's appropriateness? You don't do it in-thread, you bring it to MeTa. That's the correct action. Flagging is a shortcut to draw the mods' attention to a bad (or great) post. The call-out is wrong, in the sense that it's (somewhat subjectively, but a consensus agrees) not advertising material and is interesting, but it's not wrong in the more meta sense.
posted by norm at 9:16 PM on July 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


I agree with woodjockey, we need FPPs with multiple links to reasonably priced dildii.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:19 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Just get the kegel vibrator and be happy.
posted by Splunge at 9:47 PM on July 25, 2011


MetaFilter: I did not know how to use a cock ring until this MeTa post
posted by bwg at 10:10 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Subsequently.
posted by andoatnp at 10:24 PM on July 25, 2011


Oh no, he went full bath-salts!!
posted by setanor at 10:44 PM on July 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah, that did not seem like a post that needed to happen. If you weren't actively taking the piss with that, woodjockey, you need to figure out a better post about that and maybe think harder about the timing and framing of your post.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:58 PM on July 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


Penis Blue!
posted by WalterMitty at 11:23 PM on July 25, 2011


Penis Blue!

See, if you'd read the cockring article, you'd know that use of such apparatus should be strictly time-limited in order to avoid this complaint.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:48 PM on July 25, 2011 [4 favorites]


Is cock ring one word or two?

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm just off to take my butt plugs out of the dishwasher...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:50 PM on July 25, 2011


Reasonably priced dildii: That's the mintcake guarantee.

dildii is fun to say and looks amazing and is !!pl!p upside down. dildii !!pl!p dildii.
posted by mintcake! at 11:51 PM on July 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


One link is not a FPP

The title of your post is wrong.
posted by auto-correct at 11:56 PM on July 25, 2011


dfriedman writes "Wood is non-porous? Someone needs to tell the proprietor what 'porosity' means...."

They are talking about their toys which have an exclusive biocompatible LubrosityTM coatings which is presumably a non porous finish. I'm guessing a polyurethane.
posted by Mitheral at 12:23 AM on July 26, 2011


The post is fine because Cyndi Lauper.

Incidentally, Arthur Baker's "Special Dance Mix" of "She Bop" is 100% amazing. She and her band actually kind of recreated the extended intro live for a while.
posted by mintcake! at 12:44 AM on July 26, 2011 [2 favorites]


The post is fine because Cyndi Lauper.

It feels like there should be a Jane Wiedlin reference here somewhere...
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:58 AM on July 26, 2011


I did not know how to use a cock ring until this MeTa post, so I think it is AOK."

IT DOZEN'T GO ON YOU!
posted by klangklangston at 8:02 AM on July 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


Subsequently

Subsequently subsequently: This account is disabled.
posted by dersins at 8:33 AM on July 26, 2011


Yeah, he sent me a couple emails last night, didn't write back, and closed his account this morning. Sucks, I think it was just a rough bout of acclimating to how the site works, but so it goes.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:44 AM on July 26, 2011


I guess we're out of the woods then.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:39 AM on July 26, 2011


"Flag it and move on" hasn't always been the correct action for people who have a problem with a post. I hope it isn't even the currently correct action. Flags are a fairly recent thing.

We've been able to flag things for six years. It is very often the correct action, as is emailing the mods. Not everything has to be a MetaTalk thread, especially when the issue is pretty basic site expectations. There's no reason we all had to discuss this, there's no reason people had to show up here to give woodjockey a hard time. Flagging and moving on is functionally the least drama-filled way to object to something. I'm not sure why you would object to it.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:56 AM on July 26, 2011


Man, the one night I spend reading an actual book offline and I get a MeTa. Go figure.

So yeah, cortex shot me an email and I wrote him back to clarify that I don't know anyone involved with the business or have any proprietary interest or whatever in them. I just stumbled across their blog yesterday while doing some, um, research and I found the blog posts pretty interesting and informative so I decided to post it. I thought others might find the stuff about lube and cleaning sex toys helpful and as I just told cortex I thought the reaction would be sort of 'hmmm, that's good to know!'

I made sure to not link to anything (other than the shop's front page, for context) that was like 'hey, buy our stuff!' It was more, like mathowie said, a situation where these people have expertise in this area and write these informative things about it. I don't think any of those guides were pushing their products by any means.

So yeah; not much else to say about it than that. It wasn't my greatest post, but it never occurred to me, honestly, that it would get much grar. Apologies to those who took it that way.

Now excuse me; I have a dildo to clean.
posted by Lutoslawski at 10:08 AM on July 26, 2011 [3 favorites]


And oh man; woodjockey disabled? Geez, I hope not merely on account of this thing. That'd be a shame.
posted by Lutoslawski at 10:11 AM on July 26, 2011


This has really raised the bar for a notable MeTa: it used to just be a flame out, now you've got to raise a MeTa that teaches Jessamyn how to use a sex toy.
posted by rodgerd at 12:50 PM on July 26, 2011


It reminded me of those times you meet a true craftsman doing something they love

I hope they use the proper safety equipment.
posted by yerfatma at 3:07 PM on July 26, 2011


I did not know how to use a cock ring until this MeTa post, so I think it is AOK."

IT DOZEN'T GO ON YOU!
posted by klangklangston at 8:02 AM on July 26 [1 favorite +] [!]



-----hey Klang? I'm just gonna go ahead and say....sometimes it sure as heck does.

Useful little buggers, cock rings.

HUGS!
posted by metasav at 9:02 PM on July 26, 2011


Makes an excellent scrunchie.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:56 PM on July 26, 2011


Makes an excellent scrunchie.

But if it makes a scrunchie sound, you're doing it wrong.
posted by davejay at 11:12 AM on July 27, 2011


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