You can lead a ponyto water, but don't be surprised if I spend my time talking about ponies on the beach. August 4, 2011 8:47 AM   Subscribe

"Please refrain from bicyclist vs. driver discussion here. This post is about recovering from a serious injury." Sorry, I'm afraid I can't do that... as such, I'll flag this comment and stay out of the thread.

Personal belief: if you start a thread with one link on an injury between two things, your post may be intended to be about recovering from a serious injury, but don't be surprised if it winds up being about the two things that were related to the injury. If you want it to be about the process of recovery from serious injury - find more serious injury recovery blogs or research and include them in the inital post.
The bonus of a single link: you can find some great content and foster some great discussions.
The bad part of a single link: you give up the right to direct and focus the conversation if it is just as applicable as another conversation.

I think the blog is neat. I'll read the blog as I missed it in the car vs. bike thread, but based on the link and the inital post only, there is no basis for attempting to force the direction of conversation. Yeah, the topic proposed by the author in the first comment is a safer topic and probably one that Mefi can handle with maturity, but damn... sorry - you can't expect the conversation to stay there...

You can pick your links, you can pick your comments, but you can't pick your friend's comments.
posted by Nanukthedog to Etiquette/Policy at 8:47 AM (88 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

Link to referenced thread.
posted by BeerFilter at 8:51 AM on August 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


I thought we could pick our friends, and pick our nose, but we can't pick our friends' noses.

This thread is now about whether we have picked anyone else's nose. Please refrain from discussing the callout.

I haven't, but I'm considering organizing a meetup.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:54 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


As a parent, I can attest that in your lifetime you will have to pick someone else's nose if you decide to procreate.

Note: that is as a result of the procreation, not as part of the procreation nor with the person you procreated with - unless of course the two of you are into that sort of things.
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:59 AM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


I'll be riding my bike to that meetup.
posted by AugustWest at 8:59 AM on August 4, 2011


Please refrain from nosepicking discussion here. This post is about that time Randy tried to do a jackknife off the high board and totally bellyflopped.

Did you see that shit? It was hilarious. And his mom totally wouldn't drive him home for another hour.
posted by griphus at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


I thought it was generally considered okay etiquette to offer suggestions for the direction of the discussion on your own post at the beginning, as long you don't babysit the thread.
posted by Think_Long at 9:05 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Well, he/she IS babysitting the thread ...
posted by Curious Artificer at 9:06 AM on August 4, 2011


I thought it was generally considered okay etiquette to offer suggestions for the direction of the discussion

Really? I always thought that was totally off-limits. At least every time I've seen it, that sort of discussion-direction gets knocked out by the mods.

Personally, I'm one of those "once you release it into the wild, it's not your post anymore" people.

(Also, totally babysitting going on in there.)
posted by griphus at 9:09 AM on August 4, 2011 [4 favorites]


Fuck Randy. That guy broke the arms on my favorite Transformer, the one that turns into a big robot bat. That thing was awesome.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:11 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's generally considered polite to link to a meTa in the original thread.
posted by rtha at 9:11 AM on August 4, 2011 [4 favorites]


The driver in this case was pretty vicious. How can we not discuss that? And what are we supposed to say instead?

"Great blog about your healing after That Which Shall Not Be Named!"

"Awesome medical recovery from that incident with You-Know-What!"
posted by katillathehun at 9:13 AM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


Nanukthedog: "As a parent, I can attest that in your lifetime you will have to pick someone else's nose if you decide to procreate. "

We used to use a nose sucker squeegee thingie.

Our nanny thought we were nuts until she tried it. Apparently her method... well, it's too disgusting to relate at lunchtime.
posted by zarq at 9:20 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Seems like people in that thread are arguing about the fact that there's going to be an argument about the content of the post (in absence of said argument itself)
posted by schmod at 9:22 AM on August 4, 2011


griphus: " Personally, I'm one of those "once you release it into the wild, it's not your post anymore" people. "

But, but, but... look at the exquisite parenting that went into developing that FPP! It was carefully grown from a pixel and a mouse click using the very finest, organic links the web has to offer! And the OP sat up all night with it after their laptop ate their first draft!

What if they promise to water it only comment twice an hour? Once? *sniffle*
posted by zarq at 9:24 AM on August 4, 2011


My take on this is that, if domo wanted to discuss blogs that talked about medical recovery, links to more blogs about, well, medical recovery (or lack thereof) would have led the discussion in that direction.

It's not like the "medical memoir" genre is either new or scarce. I can recommend both Ben Watt's Patient and Alfonse Daudet's In the Land of Pain as good examples of print versions. There are legions of blogs about people living with conditions like MS, cancer, brain injury and so on.

I was bothered by having the blog singled out because it was written (in part) by a medical professional (apparently so, but not too evident from the posts) and that "bike vs car" was not the point, when the blog spends as much time talking about that as the recovery. It's like "here's a blog, but let's not discuss the contents." Not that I am encouraging another "bike vs car" dust up, but there is almost nothing else to discuss in that blog! Plus it reads like a letter to family and friends, and that made me kind of uncomfortable, too....

I know I should just flag and move on, but I have a report that is taking forever to get right, and I have to take out my anxieties somewhere.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:24 AM on August 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


A good FPP will be raised exactly the way I was. In the old country way. That is, eating raw turnips out of a burlap sack until I developed enough strength to break out of that basement.

...what were we talking about again?
posted by griphus at 9:26 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Seems like people in that thread are arguing about the fact that there's going to be an argument about the content of the post (in absence of said argument itself)

Yeah so far I'm getting the impression people are a little testy today. I was just reading a now-deleted thread about beer, wherein the only people who were actually talking about beer don't own TVs.
posted by Hoopo at 9:26 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


This honestly seems like the Blue equivalent of those 'My girlfriend cheats on my constantly and once threatened my life and I don't like her and have a secret apartment that I go to and cry for hours how can I fix our relationship PS please don't tell us to break up I won't consider it' AskMes. A single-link post about a bike vs. a car? On Metafilter? And asking that no one discuss bikes vs. cars?
posted by shakespeherian at 9:27 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Link: "Driver negligently runs over cyclist, gets out of vehicle, gets back in, then runs him over again as he lies bleeding on the pavement. Driver is charged with misdemeanor. This is the harrowing story of cyclist's painful recovery."

Framing: Please refrain from bicyclist vs. driver discussion here.

???
posted by Salvor Hardin at 9:28 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Apparently her method... well, it's too disgusting to relate at lunchtime.

I distinctly recall one of my nannies using a straw and her mouth. I feel I should track her down and give her a retroactive bonus.
posted by elizardbits at 9:28 AM on August 4, 2011


It's an inappropriate request, and the correct response is to ignore it and discuss whatever is relevant. (In addition to flagging or discussing on MetaTalk or with the mods as you see fit.)
posted by grouse at 9:30 AM on August 4, 2011


Good thing I'm far too old to even remember being baby sat or nannied.

In other news, is it time for a 'FPP poster etiquette' thread / grar/discussion again?


preens for totally ignoring own FPP's after that one in 2007
posted by infini at 9:30 AM on August 4, 2011


Nanukthedog: “‘Please refrain from bicyclist vs. driver discussion here...’ Sorry, I'm afraid I can't do that...”

And this is why a lot of us non-drivers can't stand bike culture.
posted by koeselitz at 9:31 AM on August 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


It's an excellent strategy for fostering vindictive tendencies.
I might just have to give Robbie Norton a call sometime today.
posted by vrogy at 9:33 AM on August 4, 2011


elizardbits: "I distinctly recall one of my nannies using a straw and her mouth. I feel I should track her down and give her a retroactive bonus."

Yeah. That was it. Only, sans straw. Which... I can't even....
posted by zarq at 9:33 AM on August 4, 2011


There really wasn't a way to have a discussion about that blog that didn't stray into car and bike territory, not because MeFi is flashpoint grar about ot so much, but because it's really part and parcel of the blog itself. I removed it. domo can make a different post about it tomorrow if they want.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:35 AM on August 4, 2011


My take on this is that, if domo wanted to discuss blogs that talked about medical recovery, links to more blogs about, well, medical recovery (or lack thereof) would have led the discussion in that direction.

Pretty much my feeling as well, yeah. Good intentions notwithstanding, it was maybe a misguided post in terms of domo's expectations and was pretty much skunked outright by that first comment. I've killed the thread, some sort of do-over with more of a broad focus on recovery blogs would be fine but this specific blog plus "don't talk about bikes/driver" is pretty much a non-starter.

Proscriptions about what can be discussed in a post really don't work out well and need not to be how people go about trying to create a thread that avoids obvious discursive/argumentative territory. That's more of a "think about what you're posting and how you're posting it" thing; the framing and content of the post itself should be doing the work there, and after that people will pretty much talk about what they talk about following largely from there.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:36 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

THE DRIVER OF V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE TALKING ON THE PHONE. D1 THEN REENTERED HER VEHICLE AND RAN THE CYCLIST OVER AGAIN BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES.
She ran the cyclist over again? What is wrong with people?
posted by grouse at 9:36 AM on August 4, 2011


DTMFA. (Cars.)
posted by entropicamericana at 9:37 AM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


Also why the fuck can't I find the deleted thread about beer?
posted by shakespeherian at 9:40 AM on August 4, 2011


She ran the cyclist over again? What is wrong with people?

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, this really really is not a thread for having an argument about the backstory of the link in the deleted post.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:41 AM on August 4, 2011


Also why the fuck can't I find the deleted thread about beer?

Because it's the most recent post, so deleted post scripts that count backward from the most recent visible post looking for gaps don't realize it's even there. In these situations you can always just hack the url of the current top post and add one to the post id to find the lurking deletion; other than that, just wait for another post to come along and not get deleted and the deleted post finder scripts will work.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:42 AM on August 4, 2011


As for nose-sucker-squeegie things--you haven't lived until you've used one on a cat. Then you know you've lived cause the pain is so very real.
posted by crush-onastick at 9:43 AM on August 4, 2011


shakespeherian: "Also why the fuck can't I find the deleted thread about beer?"

*hic* Itsh thish one.
posted by zarq at 9:44 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh, I thought filthy light thief's post had gone up since Hoopo's comment, so I didn't consider checking for that. Failure, thy name is failure.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:44 AM on August 4, 2011


I can't find it anymore, but there was an article that basically said the driver was trying to pull off of the road after the accident (MS law requires that you do so) and did not mean to run her over again.
posted by domo at 9:44 AM on August 4, 2011


The beer fpp could have devolved gracefully into a fight about beer (over-hopped IPAs are from Satan! No they're not!), but its framing guaranteed that we'd talk about the framing instead of the content.
posted by rtha at 9:45 AM on August 4, 2011


crush-onastick: "As for nose-sucker-squeegie things--you haven't lived until you've used one on a cat. Then you know you've lived cause the pain is so very real."

Awwww. Cute kitty.
posted by zarq at 9:45 AM on August 4, 2011


Is there a squeegie in that picture, or are you just showing us a pic of a cute cat (nothin' wrong there...)
posted by sweetkid at 9:45 AM on August 4, 2011


Jesus the blue is like a battlefield this morning.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Now that we have that out of the way, what's the "ponyto water" described in the title? I feel like it's some old timey way of describing pony urine and your intention to add lead to it, but why? WHY!?!
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2011


I've been reading the blog for a while, and have been trying to think of a way to post it without bicycle grar. I will try a more focused post later with more links to medical journals and the like. We still don't understand a lot about brain injury and the resources necessary to recover are insanely expensive and hard to get.
posted by domo at 9:47 AM on August 4, 2011


I am really sad about not getting the entire Bill Nye post today. Our server is down so literally the only thing I can do at work today is read the internets.
posted by elizardbits at 9:48 AM on August 4, 2011


shakespeherian: "Jesus the blue is like a battlefield this morning."

It is. Although I'm happily surprised to see that my post from yesterday didn't turn into a total warzone.
posted by zarq at 9:57 AM on August 4, 2011


There's no such thing as bikes vs. cars any more than there was dodos vs. humans. At the point which a cyclist intentionally maims someone in a car and gets charged with a fucking misdemeanor, maybe the vs. aspect would come into play, but as it stands now it's cars running over bikes, both in literal terms and public policy terms.
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:58 AM on August 4, 2011 [6 favorites]


We don't say this often enough.

Thank you Cortex for deleting that FPP on beer/men and thank you for the reason for deletion - you read my mind.


Jesus the blue is like a battlefield this morning.

Jesus the blue is love.
posted by infini at 10:00 AM on August 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


I couldn't help but crack up at the framing of the beer thread because it basically opens with "Are you tired of all those women who wrote the book Eat, Pray, Love?" And no, I'm not, because it's hard to get tired of a group which only contains one person.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:04 AM on August 4, 2011 [6 favorites]


"Jesus the blue is like a battlefield this morning."

Really? I was thinking it's awesome, but have only read 3 things. Posts about the Soviet arcade, old school newspaper production and deadly insects were all quite fun.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:05 AM on August 4, 2011


I've been reading the blog for a while, and have been trying to think of a way to post it without bicycle grar.

All the posts by David (a majority of the blog posts) end with:
SHARE THE ROAD, IT'S A LIFE
PUT THE !%@$# CELL PHONE DOWN BEFORE YOU KILL SOMEBODY
GET OFF THE COUCH, LIFE IS FOR DOING STUFF
SUPPORT BIKE WALK MISSISSIPPI, THEY WILL HELP MAKE CHANGES HAPPEN
BE BRIGHT AND BE SEEN
Given that, and the extensive discussion of law, policy, and road safety within the blog, it seems impossible to frame a MetaFilter post around this blog in a way that excludes the parts of it you would prefer that people not discuss.
posted by grouse at 10:05 AM on August 4, 2011


I'm practically certain a post about this very same accident was deleted a few months ago.
posted by Daddy-O at 10:05 AM on August 4, 2011


OK, I have a technical question. Hopefully the mods are still around.

The post I made yesterday has a title in Hebrew. When it was posted, I got an automated email from mathowie which said in part:

Your post has been added to MetaFilter. Here are the details:

זו הכלכלה, טמבל
http://www.metafilter.com/106165/--


Did a mod have to change the URL? Because now it reads: http://www.metafilter.com/106165/the-economy (If so, sorry about that. Had no idea. But if not, did the site somehow auto-translate the URL? Because if so, that's really freakin' cool.)
posted by zarq at 10:06 AM on August 4, 2011


'My girlfriend cheats on my constantly and once threatened my life and I don't like her and have a secret apartment that I go to and cry for hours how can I fix our relationship PS please don't tell us to break up I won't consider it'

More like: "My girlfriend cheats on my constantly and once threatened my life and I don't like her and have a secret apartment that I go to and cry for hours. Help me decorate the apartment!"
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:10 AM on August 4, 2011 [12 favorites]


Yeah, zarq, we edited it since the hebrew characters left the stub as a blank string. No scifi autotranslate, sorry.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:18 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


SUPPORT BIKE WALK MISSISSIPPI

I was really hoping this was an organization encouraging people to walk their bikes through busy pedestrian areas. Left disappointed.

We walkers are not on the same team as you bikers. Bike/Walk is a whole 'nuther conflict altogether, and we're not gonna take it no more. You can see a shot in the slideshow of some of my fellow walking brethren on the bikewalk.org website taking back the bike paths, walking 4 abreast down what is clearly a divided path. It's a covert Critical Pedestrian Mass, suckers!
posted by Hoopo at 10:20 AM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


cortex: "Yeah, zarq, we edited it since the hebrew characters left the stub as a blank string. No scifi autotranslate, sorry."

Crap. Sorry. But thanks.

I'm a little relieved to know that Skynet isn't taking over Metafilter, though.



Yet.

posted by zarq at 10:22 AM on August 4, 2011


there is neither squeegie nor booger visible in the photo of the cat, but that's because 1) it's too gross to photograph; 2) it's too dangerous a job to photograph.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:24 AM on August 4, 2011


...it's hard to get tired of a group which only contains one person.

You never met the group of my first wife, did you?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:28 AM on August 4, 2011 [4 favorites]


Really? I was thinking it's awesome, but have only read 3 things. Posts about the Soviet arcade, old school newspaper production and deadly insects were all quite fun.

I mostly meant because there's like eighty-four deleted threads.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:38 AM on August 4, 2011


I removed it
posted by jessamyn ★ at 12:35 PM on August 4 [+] [!]

I've killed the thread,
posted by cortex at 12:36 PM on August 4 [+] [!]


MOD1 REMOVED THE THREAD WHILE TALKING ON THE PHONE. THEN MOD2 RAN THE THREAD OVER AGAIN BEFORE ENTERING METATALK.
posted by Dano St at 10:39 AM on August 4, 2011 [19 favorites]


DOUBLE
posted by infini at 10:52 AM on August 4, 2011


DOUBLE
posted by zarq at 10:55 AM on August 4, 2011


Really? I was thinking it's awesome, but have only read 3 things

Brandon Blatcher, I don't want to alarm you but people were insulting beer and the people who drink it.
posted by Hoopo at 10:58 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is not how FIAMO works.
posted by Aizkolari at 11:04 AM on August 4, 2011


Does FIAMO work?
posted by infini at 11:07 AM on August 4, 2011


Works for me.
posted by Aizkolari at 11:17 AM on August 4, 2011


Rarely is the question asked: Am our FIAMO working?"
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:19 AM on August 4, 2011


This is how FIERI works.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:20 AM on August 4, 2011


Certainly the best use of the NaNaYouCantTellMeWhatToDo tag to date!

True, it's the *only* use of it to date, but still! The bar is high! Dream large you NaNa-ers!
posted by jasper411 at 11:29 AM on August 4, 2011


Fiamo is for lovers.
Fiamo is for numbers.
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:31 AM on August 4, 2011


I thought we could pick our friends, and pick our nose, but we can't pick our friends' noses.

As I've pointed out before, I think you'll find that with sufficiently strong restraints in place, your friends can't actually stop you from picking their noses.

Try it, you'll see that I'm right.
posted by quin at 11:53 AM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Proscriptions about what can be discussed in a post really don't work out well ... people will pretty much talk about what they talk about ...
posted by cortex at 5:36 PM on August 4

... this really really is not a thread for having an argument about the backstory of the link in the deleted post.
posted by cortex at 5:41 PM on August 4


The horrible paradox at the heart of MetaFilter. Vote #1 quidnunc for chief moderator and never have to flag it and move on ever again. Also lower taxes and theocratic tyranny in which I am God-King. You know it makes sense.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 12:06 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


*distributes punitive noogie*
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:08 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


OW!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:10 PM on August 4, 2011


I thought it was generally considered okay etiquette to offer suggestions for the direction of the discussion on your own post at the beginning, as long you don't babysit the thread.

Nah.
posted by Avenger50 at 1:55 PM on August 4, 2011


You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose....












But you can't wipe your friends on the couch.
posted by pearlybob at 1:59 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Fuck Randy. That guy broke the arms on my favorite Transformer, the one that turns into a big robot bat. That thing was awesome.


Ratbat. Decepticon fuel officer. The first toy bureaucrat, to my knowledge.
posted by running order squabble fest at 2:16 PM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


I thought it was generally considered okay etiquette to offer suggestions for the direction of the discussion on your own post at the beginning, as long you don't babysit the thread.

This is one of those things that is difficult enough to do well that we don't really bother suggesting that people do it. Specifically saying "Can we not turn this into a discussion of $HOTBUTTON_TOPIC" is fairly difficult to achieve. I know this can be frustrating because there are some nuanced topics that can be tough to talk about here because they're closely enough linked enough to a hot button topic that conversation tends to bleed in that direction nearly always.

I've had decent luck commenting occasionally in my own thread [after a few comments, if it seems like it's going somewhere not-great] with some more explanation of why I found the topic interesting and what I really liked about it but not asking/telling people how to talk about stuff. Not only do we have a pretty strong "you can't tell me what to do!" faction here, but once the post is out of the gate, you sort of need to leave it alone. If you want to influence the direction of a post, you have to keep that in mind in how you craft your post, usually.

No big deal in this case, it's just worth pointing out that suggesting thread directions in the post or the early comments is something that tends to not work out more often than it actually works out.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:01 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


I distinctly recall one of my nannies using a straw and her mouth. I feel I should track her down and give her a retroactive bonus.

Or a mental health assessment.
posted by hal_c_on at 3:44 PM on August 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


It always concerns me when we blacklist a topic because some people are ass holes.
Anticipating defensive "we don't blacklist" statements that completely miss the point of what I'm trying to say.
posted by Chuckles at 6:30 PM on August 4, 2011


I distinctly recall one of my nannies using a straw and her mouth. I feel I should track her down and give her a retroactive bonus.

Or a mental health assessment.


Or one of those rubber bulb squeezy things.
posted by flabdablet at 7:30 PM on August 4, 2011


Thank you MetaTalk for telling more about nasal mucusy-stuff extraction than I wanted to know. And before this thread I didn't even know that I didn't want to know....

Just when I think people have told me all the Gross Things You Need To Know Before Becoming A Parent Stories, along comes yet one more. There should be a wiki for this somewhere.

I will now live in fear that someone will provide a link.
posted by batgrlHG at 10:41 PM on August 4, 2011


There should be a wiki for this somewhere.

YouTube is a rich resource.
posted by flabdablet at 11:35 PM on August 4, 2011


zarq: Our nanny thought we were nuts until she tried it. Apparently her method... well, it's too disgusting to relate at lunchtime."

Stick her mouth over the baby's nose and suck it out? I mean geeze.

zarq: " Yeah. That was it. Only, sans straw. Which... I can't even...."

OMG. You were serious. UGH UGH UGH.
posted by IndigoRain at 7:10 PM on August 5, 2011


OMG. You were serious. UGH UGH UGH.

Easy to sift the adults from the yet to be parents/young 'uns in here.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:05 AM on August 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Or even the adults who don't have children.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:06 AM on August 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


The bulb syringe thingies don't work b/c you can only get as much suction as is produced by releasing a small squeezed bulb. It's not much. Anything that allows you to produce suction by, well, sucking will be much more effective.

Allow me to introduce you to ... the Snot Sucker.
posted by palliser at 9:47 PM on August 8, 2011


Time for me to click the "remove from activity" button.
posted by grouse at 11:51 PM on August 8, 2011


IndigoRain: " OMG. You were serious. UGH UGH UGH."

Yeah.
posted by zarq at 12:56 PM on August 12, 2011


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