NOT-JAMESTAYLORIST August 22, 2011 6:12 PM   Subscribe

Hey! We weren't done hating on James Taylor!

The James Taylor thread got closed just as it was getting kind of interesting, the discussion was starting to converge on why people disliked or liked JT and his music. And this was a perfectly legitimate topic, it was even raised before the main content of the post (scant as it was) giving context to this discussion. I was especially surprised to see the thread closed after a comment by cortex:

..we can have a discussion about actual music instead of defending our respective favorites' honor by drawing lines in the sand about who can criticize what and when.

And then some mod drew a line in the sand and shut down the discussion.
posted by charlie don't surf to MetaFilter-Related at 6:12 PM (179 comments total)

Thread is not closed?
posted by ericost at 6:14 PM on August 22, 2011


It's... closed?
posted by brundlefly at 6:14 PM on August 22, 2011


What are you talking about? That thread is open. cortex commented in it a little while ago. Reload maybe?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:18 PM on August 22, 2011


Are you alright? That thread looks like it is still open to me.
posted by bukvich at 6:18 PM on August 22, 2011


When I last checked it, there was no comment box, and the message "This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments" was present. Now the thread is open. WTF?
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:19 PM on August 22, 2011


charlie don't surf so he don't know the thread's still open
posted by 6550 at 6:20 PM on August 22, 2011


And yeah, I did reload, the penultimate comment was by cortex, then the final one by flapjax. Then the closed thread message.

Well nevermind.
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:21 PM on August 22, 2011


Debating who has good or bad taste in music is pointless. Even more than with most arguments, it's a foregone conclusion that no one's mind will be changed.
posted by John Cohen at 6:22 PM on August 22, 2011


Might you have possibly hit the random button without realizing it, paged down to the end of a long-closed and archived post, and jumped to conclusions? Because it's either that or you've been hitting the rock again.
posted by phunniemee at 6:23 PM on August 22, 2011


The James Taylor pixies are trying to tell you something. Last night I looked at a you tube of him playing "You've got a friend" and the looks of the ladies in the audience were pure shock and awe; it has been awhile since I have seen anything like that. It was almost as much an impression as looking at a Beatles youtube from the early '60's and all those teenage girls screaming at the top of their lungs at the sight of John and Paul and the other two guys.
posted by bukvich at 6:25 PM on August 22, 2011


I've seen fire and I've seen wang.
posted by bardic at 6:27 PM on August 22, 2011 [8 favorites]


Debating who has good or bad taste in music is pointless.

Ah, but debating why people consider it good or bad taste is quite interesting. To me at least.
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:28 PM on August 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Might you have possibly hit the random button without realizing it, paged down to the end of a long-closed and archived post, and jumped to conclusions?

Or had the older James Taylor post that had recently been linked in the current thread open in another tab or something. I'll reiterate that the current thread is not, and has never been, closed, and add that we don't even have a "close the thread" function anywhere but on Metatalk.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:39 PM on August 22, 2011


John and Paul and the other two guys.

Oh! Oh! It was Henry and Buck.
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:39 PM on August 22, 2011


John and Paul and the other two guys

No, dude. It was twelve apostles. Not four. Twelve.
posted by The World Famous at 6:40 PM on August 22, 2011 [4 favorites]


Debating who has good or bad taste in music is pointless. Even more than with most arguments, it's a foregone conclusion that no one's mind will be changed.

Actually, that's not necessarily true. Some time back, in a music thread, I expressed a general non-interest in Van Morrison. I said something like his stuff was too samey or whatever. Some Van fans rolled into that thread with some listening suggestions for me, and indeed my feelings about the man's music were changed a bit.

Ah, but debating why people consider it good or bad taste is quite interesting. To me at least.

Me too. Absolutely. If people don't take other's expressions of dislike or disinterest or whatever so damn personally, and don't get all bent outta shape about it, it's great to talk about music you don't like with someone who does like it, or music that you like with someone who doesn't like it.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:41 PM on August 22, 2011 [6 favorites]


I like listening in on those conversations because it does get me to consider or question my own stance on the artists. Just recently, someone did a PJ Harvey post, and she's someone who I've always much more admired than enjoyed, you know? Anyhow, people said so many glowing things and linked such interesting finds, and that led me to an earlier post of all the films made for her Let England Shake songs.

So I bought a few CDs, and after hearing those, just ordered the rest of her catalog because, man, I finally get it!
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:48 PM on August 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Or had the older James Taylor post that had recently been linked in the current thread open in another tab or something. I'll reiterate that the current thread is not, and has never been, closed, and add that we don't even have a "close the thread" function anywhere but on Metatalk.

Now that is a possibility. But I swear I saw your comment and flapjax's with the "this thread has been archived" after it. I was copying some of your remark, and there was no place to paste it. It could be a transient bug, or I just goofed.

Well nevermind. This thread is getting kind of meta, when that was what was so good about the JT thread, we were discussing why people hated or liked JT, not that they hated or liked JT. So I suppose you could close this thread since it's drawing that interesting meta out of the other thread.
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:57 PM on August 22, 2011


There was an AskMe about Eminem songs a little while back, and, the other day, somebody posted at the end of it like 'Wow, this thread has totally opened my eyes to Eminem.'

That kind of thing, whether it's happening to me or to somebody else, is a big part of why I like to hang around here.
posted by box at 7:19 PM on August 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


box taught me to love bhangra. I have learned about some great music here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:23 PM on August 22, 2011 [1 favorite]



Me too. Absolutely. If people don't take other's expressions of dislike or disinterest or whatever so damn personally, and don't get all bent outta shape about it, it's great to talk about music you don't like with someone who does like it, or music that you like with someone who doesn't like it.


How else are we supposed to talk about music? If I'm talking about a band its probably because they've meant way too much to me. If something saved me life, I'm going to be pretty passionate about it.

There's a reason why I've stopped starting music threads.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 7:34 PM on August 22, 2011


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments.
posted by mannequito at 7:39 PM on August 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground

There are moments in your life where everything you know in life is upended. Long-haired balding man as masculine figure worthy of envy and/or emulation rather than contempt and pity:

1) Pluto by Eric "The Savage Dragon" Larson. Damn, he looks good, he looks right, your fiance thinks he's sex on wheels, because while Lucy Lawless can rock the gloves and the Xena-skirt, Pluto makes it look goooood... and as a middle-aged man coming into the height of his power as the literal god of wealth. It's the mirror image of a 19y.o. girl with a Ferrari and an AmEx Black card with a zero balance. Oh, yeah, I could be that kind of man. Bring on the groupies!

2) James Taylor singing sincerely and honestly about loss, on national TV, on the anniversary of 9/11. I will never be enough man for that.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:45 PM on August 22, 2011


How else are we supposed to talk about music?

Like it's an Israel/Palestine thread, apparently.

If I'm talking about a band its probably because they've meant way too much to me.

Well, like it used to say, emblazoned in huge letters on the facade of the late, lamented Lone Star Cafe in New York City, "TOO MUCH AIN'T ENOUGH!"

There's a reason why I've stopped starting music threads.

Somehow we're managing to struggle along without 'em, Lovecraft! ;-)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:51 PM on August 22, 2011 [4 favorites]


NOT-JAMESTAYLORIST

Hey! We weren't done hating on James Taylor!


Somehow I don't believe your first claim, in light of your second.
posted by hippybear at 7:54 PM on August 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


Charlie don't surf is a world beater, a great line in a great movie, but my favorite has always been:

Willard: Hey soldier, do you know who's in command here?
Soldier: Ain't you?
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:33 PM on August 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


When That Birch Branch Snapped: (Or, Where the Sidewalk Started Stopping)

In Broken Bokeh, Sotto voce ShallowD.O.F. Shakey-Cam Zoom-in on iron ion Baited Bear Traps, together we Began stopping being startling, better hearts starting to stop now before we ever started stopping short, In it for the long game, right turn, slowhand, so we Stand Still; still, Against Staind Window panes are Still-leaves rustling, left us altogether scared of the night, Just Hit the solar powered Trite Light, like carrying our Umbrella(ella, Ella!) bearing pocketknife to an indoor exothermic Bike Fight.

Too soon to forget to Remember, The messages intrinsically ingrained.
The error message of that TPS Book Report Metaphorically (Or, Rhetorically, Oratorically) constrained. (RAIN, ANOTHER DAY RETURN, TODAY REFRAIN)

Scale the fences, as if at a scale too fine, Focused deep, shallow image herringbone Water-Drops hit FishScales, Peeled back Scratchpad; macro- economic Cat fight, Cloned Stemcell flavoured (BloodBeets)Beats hitting on Jackbooted gnomes Cheating at Nomic (But it's Local-Organic!).

When you forget to remember all the rules,
If at any-time it all seems prepped to fall up, Graphite gravity defiance a world apart,
Craft a Parcelled message to your future Poetically (im)partial self, reconstructed messages to misguided Middlemanagers, as if to prepare to begin for the meal to start; Rare, carnivores getting heated eat the Broken, Bloodied Vegetable's Heart.

Pale handed heart, Words etched in my mud-ground-mind, even just notes echoing down the grapevine;

Passion plays redacted to outlast the art. InternalPersonal meanings remain a plight apart. Fashioning a feather Banded [Cap]-com, sealed cracks dripping where the last jam jar went wrong. Branded bands, RubberSoul Solo Sized Side salad, scaled back sound-waves tear through the cells of fans in the stands. Waving Cellies.

Begin to start stopping hearts, flutters, why let words trample incidental Anecdotal non-flatterers, chattering, broken discourse or side dishes first course golfing goofy for the very apex top-knotch, the Best worst-first-last-date; Better Dreams spent twittering, than minds on ashes left to be scattering.

Then onwards, sagging upwards towards Shattering, Logically Loaded Scat, Darlinton, darlin', Drat; New Nuclear Long Term No longer clear; Bratapa, sat-Rate-rat-Nav, babhat, tension torsion, Winded by bending Pretty Flowers flexibly finding ratcheted rhetorical flourishes taxing.

D.C. al Coda et. al.
posted by infinite intimation at 8:38 PM on August 22, 2011 [3 favorites]


Don't mess with James Taylor, Charlie Don't Surf, or you'll look like a fool for thinking the thread was closed when it's not. But maybe this one ought to be.
posted by crunchland at 8:40 PM on August 22, 2011


Oh yeah, but don't you let them.
posted by clavdivs at 9:07 PM on August 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


Why is the blue, blue? It hasnt had a bhangra post since 2004.

hint hint
posted by shothotbot at 9:07 PM on August 22, 2011


I'm going to go ahead and close this up.
































Awww, who am I kidding? This is freeform, go nuts!
posted by Eideteker at 9:10 PM on August 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


Metafilter+James Taylor=Post
Metatalk+James Taylor=Bhangra
posted by hal_c_on at 9:15 PM on August 22, 2011


Debating who has good or bad taste in music is pointless.

Ah, but debating why people consider it good or bad taste is quite interesting. To me at least.


I was well into my 20s before I realized that the smart people I disagreed with were the ones I had the most to learn from, and it was musical arguments that clarified this for me. So yeah, your favorite band sucks. Tell me why I'm wrong.
posted by philip-random at 10:12 PM on August 22, 2011


... and as for Mr. James Taylor, I gotta say I far prefer R. Dean's version of Fire + Rain. Like a darned fine (only slightly stinky) cheese.
posted by philip-random at 10:22 PM on August 22, 2011


I've seen fire and I've seen wang.

i've seen boney times that i could not find a friend
posted by pyramid termite at 11:20 PM on August 22, 2011 [1 favorite]


after that rain I thought I'd
never pee again
posted by clavdivs at 11:45 PM on August 22, 2011


Here's a fun game! You have to figure out what "A" and "B" are!

A includes (but not limited to)

-James Taylor
-Abba
-Def Lappard
-Roxy Music
-Beatles pre LSD

B includes (but not limited to)

-Talking Heads
-Led Zeppelin
-Trans Global Underground
-Neil Young
-Beatles post LSD
posted by Meatbomb at 1:17 AM on August 23, 2011


Roxy Music on that list... is that all of it or just the post Eno era?
posted by Kattullus at 1:29 AM on August 23, 2011


-Def Lappard

Ah, the famous Sami band.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 1:35 AM on August 23, 2011 [8 favorites]


I like the Beatles post LDS. Elder Paul and Elder John were always dreamy, but they never really let loose until they left the church.

And I like everything post LSD. Toasters, for example.
posted by pracowity at 1:42 AM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


I especially enjoyed the way cortex joined in on and endorsed using ethnicity as a pejorative; I can't get enough of that.
posted by rodgerd at 2:06 AM on August 23, 2011


Kattullus: mainly with Eno era.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:13 AM on August 23, 2011


What are bands that have never been in my kitchen?
posted by Horselover Phattie at 3:32 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ah, but debating why people consider it good or bad taste is quite interesting. To me at least.

Oh, but you didn't do that, Charlie. You used that entire thread to tell us over and over how you hate the music that was popular in the '70s. OK. We get it. Thanks for sharing. That is a thread about somebody whose music you hate. You've said so. We heard you. Maybe you could now spend your time in a thread about something you do like.

Now, with this MeTa, it's clear that what you do like is telling the world what you don't like.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:50 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


If something saved me life, I'm going to be pretty passionate about it.

Was your life saved by a DJ? Perhaps last night? Coz I'd be pretty passionate about that too, or at least up for dancing around a bit.
posted by kaibutsu at 4:18 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Here's a fun game! You have to figure out what "A" and "B" are!

A. The music of virginal romantic pursuit
B. The tantric music of coitus.
posted by Devils Rancher at 4:25 AM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


You used that entire thread to tell us over and over how you hate the music that was popular in the '70s

What's worse is that every time you comment, you repeat the age-old slander about Charlie not surfing. Well I know Charlie, mister - and he can surf like a fucking surf wizard. Like, he actually has goddamn magical powers on that surfboard and he can transcend time and space when he surfs and he doesn't even get wet. So don't fucking tell me that Charlie doesn't surf, because he fucking DOES. And another thing - he prefers "Charles". Don't fucking call him "Charlie" like you are his best friend when you are spreading that bullshit about his surfing skills. If you had any DECENCY you would change your name to "Charles DOES surf - and he's really good at it, and I'm sorry if I misled anyone about that".
posted by the quidnunc kid at 4:26 AM on August 23, 2011 [6 favorites]


How else are we supposed to talk about music? If I'm talking about a band its probably because they've meant way too much to me. If something saved me life, I'm going to be pretty passionate about it.

If a band means "too much" to you -- if it somehow literally meant the difference between life and death to you (the singer performed a timely Heimlich on you?) -- you probably ought to stay out of discussions in which people might poop on your favorite band. You're only going to get angry and maybe take a few people along with you. There are places where people can be depended upon to discuss certain bands and types of music with reverence, but this ain't one of them.
posted by pracowity at 5:03 AM on August 23, 2011


Pretty sure this is the first time anyone ever called Talking Heads "the tantric music of coitus."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:15 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


. . . although it does bring new meaning to "Stay up Late," "Girlfriend Is Better," "This Must Be the Place," and "New Feeling."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:19 AM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


Music can't be "tantric". Tantra is a process of integration of impulses and awareness, coital or otherwise. Look it up.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 5:22 AM on August 23, 2011


I especially enjoyed the way cortex joined in on and endorsed using ethnicity as a pejorative;

I especially enjoy obtuseness as a trolling mechanism.
posted by yerfatma at 5:32 AM on August 23, 2011


There are places where people can be depended upon to discuss certain bands and types of music with reverence, but this ain't one of them.

I still think it's a problem that literally any music thread will bring out haters, especially of the snarky or 'you like this music because of this personality defect' people.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:33 AM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


If a band means "too much" to you -- if it somehow literally meant the difference between life and death to you (the singer performed a timely Heimlich on you?)

C'mon man. I might be a bit melodramatic/emo but I'm hardly the first person to use music to cope with the world.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:35 AM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


Music can't be "tantric". Tantra is a process of integration of impulses and awareness, coital or otherwise. Look it up.

Hm, doesn't seem too far of to me....
posted by kaibutsu at 5:39 AM on August 23, 2011


Music can't be "tantric". Tantra is a process of integration of impulses and awareness

as is playing music
posted by pyramid termite at 6:21 AM on August 23, 2011


Sound system gonna bring me back up, right.
One thing that I can depend on.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:27 AM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


I still think it's a problem that literally any music thread will bring out haters, especially of the snarky or 'you like this music because of this personality defect' people.

That happens. I think it happened in the thread in question. You won't escape it unless you find a discussion board devoted to loving your favorite band and banning people who disagree.

*heads off to his nightly Wayne Newton discussion and love fest*
posted by pracowity at 6:31 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


A. The music of virginal romantic pursuit
B. The tantric music of coitus.


DING DING DING! You have 1 point and play passes to you, Devils Rancher.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:34 AM on August 23, 2011


I especially enjoyed the way cortex joined in on and endorsed using ethnicity as a pejorative; I can't get enough of that.

Oh good lord. "Weenie-sounding white guy folk music" is a pejorative description of a musical genre in the form in which it most reliably manifests, not a condemnation of caucasians or males. To be super clear about this, black lesbians and gender-neutral mestizos can play weenie-sounding white guy folk music and be just as annoying and insipid. WSWGFM doesn't judge, it is willing to make any and all people who play it annoying in equal measure (doing a James Taylor cover is a decent first step), something I've encountered on many occasions and personally dabbled in a bit in my younger days. That most of the people performing WSWGFM, my younger self included, were white guys sounding like weenies is directly responsible for my personal label for the genre.

If you really want to pull back the veil on my deep-seated racism (and sexism and ageism and classism too!), get me riled up about the demography of the uppermost tier of business people in the US.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:57 AM on August 23, 2011 [7 favorites]


Debating who has good or bad taste in music is pointless. Even more than with most arguments, it's a foregone conclusion that no one's mind will be changed.

back when i used to make my long gaga comments linking to a bunch of different performances, covers, and fan videos, i've had a lot of people in thread and in memail say "huh, i didn't know she could really sing/play the piano/make interesting musical choices. i'll have to find more of that. thanks!" or some variation there of.

minds can absolutely be changed. i find it is more likely to happen if you say something like "this is what i like about such&such artist" instead of "here is why you're wrong!" (something i'm not innocent of, but i try).
posted by nadawi at 7:06 AM on August 23, 2011


Music can't be "tantric". Tantra is a process of integration of impulses and awareness, coital or otherwise. Look it up.

Harmonic vibrations describe the entire universe to me, but I'm an illiterate rube when it comes to other people's religions.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:08 AM on August 23, 2011


A:
Britney Spears, Oops, I Did It Again
Atlanta Rhythm Section, So Into You
The Guess Who, American Woman

B:
Richard Thompson, Oops I Did It Again
Shudder To Think, So Into You
The Butthole Surfers, American Woman

(I really have only a very nebulous idea of where I'm going with this...)
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:14 AM on August 23, 2011


debating why people consider it good or bad taste is quite interesting.

Knowing the wheres and whys and hows of how people like music is always more interesting than simply knowing that your favorite band sucks.

In 1975 Brian Eno wrote:
"I believe that we are moving towards a position of using music and recorded sound with the variety of options that we presently use colour—we might simply use it to 'tint' the environment, we might use it 'diagramatically,' we might use it to modify our moods in almost subliminal ways. I predict that the concept of 'muzak,' once it sheds its connotations of aural garbage, might enjoy a new (and very fruitful) lease of life."
I think that's a pretty spot on description of how most of us listen to music in the 21st century. The meaning of the popular music that we hear (and have heard) inevitably becomes bound up with the places and times where we heard it and the performers inevitably become identified with styles and tribes and ways of listening. I think it can be interesting to pick through all this, but it requires more than just "I HATE x" or "Y saved my life." (Two kinds of discussions that can have their own rewards, but which are probably going to be frowned on around here.)
posted by octobersurprise at 7:20 AM on August 23, 2011


To be honest I saw that thread, clicked on it hoping for discussion of the promising young lancashire batsman and future England no.6 - then I remembered that the world does not care about cricket as much as I do and left disappointed :(
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 8:03 AM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory - you should make that thread. :)
posted by nadawi at 8:15 AM on August 23, 2011


WSWG FM is also cortex's local public radio station.
posted by zamboni at 8:28 AM on August 23, 2011


Cortex the Killer.
posted by Infinite Jest at 8:41 AM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


He came dancing across the filter
Cortex, Cortex
What a killer.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:46 AM on August 23, 2011


minds can absolutely be changed. i find it is more likely to happen if you say something like "this is what i like about such&such artist" instead of "here is why you're wrong!" (something i'm not innocent of, but i try).

Yeah, there's an old quote I vaguely recall from GB Shaw, something like "It is not the critic's job to say whether or or not he was amused. It is his job to explain why he was or was not amused."

I will note that some of the music I love the most, I hated at first. It had to grow on me. But these are very rare.
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:53 AM on August 23, 2011


To be super clear about this, black lesbians and gender-neutral mestizos can play weenie-sounding white guy folk music and be just as annoying and insipid.

So... would you say the music is turning them white?
posted by aught at 9:27 AM on August 23, 2011


His obvious talent and drive aside, I do not understand why he's in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. Love them or hate them, I would not describe any of his songs as "rock". But maybe "rock" has taken some sort of amorphous form that means "was played on the radio at some point". Or maybe it was because of "Steamroller", which is probably the most sterilized and soulless "blues" song I have ever heard. It's like eating a bowl of cellophane tape porridge.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:30 AM on August 23, 2011


Cellophane tape porridge sounds like it would taste more like Aphex Twin sounds like.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:40 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


A witty sally, eponysterical, even, by nebulawindphone!


(just take a breath at the commas)
posted by Lynsey at 9:46 AM on August 23, 2011


minds can absolutely be changed. i find it is more likely to happen if you say something like "this is what i like about such&such artist" instead of "here is why you're wrong!"

Taste in music can be changed, but only through the listening process, not arguments.
posted by John Cohen at 9:54 AM on August 23, 2011


But the listening process can be informed by arguments.
posted by ericost at 9:58 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh, but you didn't do that, Charlie. You used that entire thread to tell us over and over how you hate the music that was popular in the '70s. OK. We get it. Thanks for sharing.

In fairness to Charlie, unless you survived the early-mid-1970s and the rise and rise of the so-called "sensitive singer songwriter" genre of which James Taylor was very much in the vanguard, you have no idea how DEEP the hate goes, how DEEP it had to go, how DEEP it still must go because it keeps coming back in all manner of weird and evil guises. Volumes could be written about the pernicious shit but, in a way, it's best summed up with two words.

PUNK ROCK.

Punk rock would not have needed to be invented were it not for the likes of James Fucking Taylor and the weedy neediness inherent in his music and the cultural cancer it accelerated. And I say all this as a huge fan of Two Lane Blacktop.
posted by philip-random at 10:05 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Can we get a shout-out for Loggins and Messina? No? How about Seals and Crofts?
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:11 AM on August 23, 2011


Hey guys, I was busy sailing away to Key Largo. Did I miss anything?
posted by mintcake! at 10:11 AM on August 23, 2011


That's not sailing. THIS is sailing.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:13 AM on August 23, 2011


So... would you say the music is turning them white?

Only if playing tremolo lines on a verbed out Jazzmaster turns you into a surfer.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:16 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Taste in music can be changed, but only through the listening process

This seems absurd prima facie; if true it would mean that there practically was no way to talk about music at all.

Punk rock would not have needed to be invented were it not for the likes of James Fucking Taylor and the weedy neediness inherent in his music and the cultural cancer it accelerated.

The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock is one thing duller than James Taylor's reign of terror.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:20 AM on August 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


Punk rock would not have needed to be invented were it not for the likes of James Fucking Taylor and the weedy neediness inherent in his music and the cultural cancer it accelerated.

So... would you say the music is turning them white?


I'm turning JFT, I think I'm turning JFT, I really think so
think so
think so
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:33 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


PUNK ROCK.

yeah, because people screaming over 3 chords with dubious musicianship about their fantasies of rebellion and nihilism is much more artistically significant

not that the best bands were like that, but ... it may have seemed like a good idea at the time, but in some ways we traded "progressive rock" for reactionary rock

the kids i went to high school with who played grand funk railroad covers found themselves learning "god save the queen" by 1978 and getting gigs - i went there, it was a lot of fun, but ... 5 years later, the musicians who managed to keep playing live were playing country music

i'm not a great fan of the singer/songwriter school at its most insipid - but at least they spared us the pretensions that they were going to overthrow the music industry and then the government and played with a generally higher level of musicianship

punk rock's day was over 20 years ago, at least - it's just another style you can buy at hot topic
posted by pyramid termite at 10:38 AM on August 23, 2011


.
.
.
.
.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 10:47 AM on August 23, 2011


Debating who has good or bad taste in music is pointless. Even more than with most arguments, it's a foregone conclusion that no one's mind will be changed.
posted by John Cohen at 2:22 AM on August 23


That sort of "debate" isn't about changing minds. It's about having fun, bantering and scoring zinger points. Did you really not get that?
posted by Decani at 10:50 AM on August 23, 2011


punk rock's day was over 20 years ago, at least - it's just another style you can buy at hot topic

One of the most memorable rants I've ever heard was from a friend of mine in high school in about 1989 strenuously objecting (yes, strenuously) to the use of the term "punk rock" to describe anything or anybody. He insisted that punk rock had been dead for at least ten years and that the proper term was "alternative people." For the life of me, I can't think of any bona fide punk rock that existed as anything other than a nostalgia or novelty act in 1989. Maybe it's too early in the day, though.
posted by The World Famous at 10:56 AM on August 23, 2011


but at least they spared us the pretensions that they were going to overthrow the music industry and then the government and played with a generally higher level of musicianship

Now there's a caricature. I was too young at the time, but punk still resonates with me and not in the "yeah let's overthrow the government" way. In the "We're angry and frustrated and let's fucking party anyway" way.
posted by Hoopo at 11:00 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sorry for complete thread unrelatedness but did anyone else in NYC just feel something earthquakey?

it was kind of neato
posted by elizardbits at 11:01 AM on August 23, 2011


did anyone else in NYC just feel something earthquakey?

donald trump just got a haircut
posted by pyramid termite at 11:02 AM on August 23, 2011


punk rock "the phenomena" was necessarily dead before "Punk Rock" the label ever existed. Because punk rock was always zombie rock. Undead-and-roll. It isn't something you appreciate. It's something you were infected with.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:09 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


I can't think of any bona fide punk rock that existed as anything other than a nostalgia or novelty act in 1989.

You can't be serious.

I could do this all day.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 11:12 AM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


Are we choosing teams? I'm on the "superb musician, totally not my taste/ later stuff induced nausea" side.

Also, punk rock was much more than it pretended to be less of. The Clash have saved my soul more times than any whiney white guy folk singer, whatever his color or gender.
posted by From Bklyn at 11:13 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock is one thing duller than James Taylor's reign of terror.

Hey, it's not mythology. It happened. I was there. Let me describe 1975 to you in a few words. Everybody who gave a shit about music had a slow growing HATE on for the singer-songwriter-soft-YACHT-rock shit (except, of course, for those who liked it, who bought the f***ing records; I don't think anyone ever LOVED that stuff). But there was no cohesion to this HATE. The Led Zep shitkickers and the prog-rock sophistos and the garage rock glue-sniffers were not hanging out at the same soda shops. They were not organizing, just hating (they all hated disco, too, but that's a whole other tangent).

And then punk happened, in 1976 if you were in Britain and maybe NYC, 1977 if you were elsewhere (news didn't travel so fast in those days). Suddenly, somebody (someTHING) was doing something with all that hate -- but they weren't just taking on the James Taylors, they were taking on EVERYBODY. So yeah, it wasn't pretty. There was all manner of collateral damage (Johnny Rotten was wearing an I HATE PINK FLOYD t-shirt when Malcolm McLaren "discovered" him), and a perhaps disproportionate amount of this damage was felt by those who were into the progressive stuff, the sophistos. I should know. I was one of them. My favorite bands in 1977 were Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, and come 1979, that was still pretty much the case. I was still fighting punk as hard as I could. But punk was winning. Punk was morphing into something that was increasingly difficult to dismiss as nihilistic noise. Bands like Magazine were blowing minds in all kinds of creative ways. The Clash released London Calling!

And so on. By 1980, I was no longer fighting punk, I was in the mosh-pit. The gigs were generally explosive in all the right ways and so were the parties. Prog-rock, my teenage love, had died a death and that was sad, but so had all the James Taylors, and that was not sad. Whether punk is relevant now is beside the point. What matters is that it was in 1976-77-78-79-80. There was a job to do and punk did it. Punk saved the world (from boredom anyway).

So, ummm, thanks for all that, James Taylor.
posted by philip-random at 11:16 AM on August 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


You can't be serious .

I could do this all day.


I can link to hardcore bands in liked in the 80s all day, too. What's your point?
posted by The World Famous at 11:28 AM on August 23, 2011


in I
posted by The World Famous at 11:29 AM on August 23, 2011


I think the point is hardcore is often considered punk and was still going in 1989, and incidentally Bad Religion is not hardcore.
posted by Hoopo at 11:32 AM on August 23, 2011


What's your point?

Every single one of those songs is from an album released in 1989. Are you saying Bad Religion, D.R.I., Gorilla Biscuits, and Leatherface (to say nothing of Naked Raygun, The Queers, Screeching Weasel, Social Distortion, and many more) are all nostalgia/novelty acts.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 11:33 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


philip-random: "Punk rock would not have needed to be invented were it not for the likes of James Fucking Taylor "

Well then maybe you ought to thank the man, then.

Me, I can appreciate both JT and punk. But I was born in the early 70's, not developing my musical taste as an adult then. That happened in the 80's through today. Because so far I haven't stopped expanding my list of music I like, and keep adding older music I didn't know I liked until now because I never heard it before or heard it in a new light since first listen.

The sheer number of times I remember saying "I don't like X, X is shitty excuse for REAL music" and then later on discovering that X fucking rocks and I want to get lots of albums of X music. Pick a style, pick a genre, and it's likely that it could be one of my many X's.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:36 AM on August 23, 2011


Wild Gift is my favorite X album.
posted by box at 11:38 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


An awesome swede I once knew told me Tom Waits was "sailor rock".
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:38 AM on August 23, 2011


Also I try not to have too many X's today. Mostly I listen, and think "Not for me" or "Wow this is new", rather than defaulting to "I hate this and it sucks forever" like I did when I was young, inexperienced and stupid.

Except for modern country. That is a genre I just can't get into, nor do I want to. Alt country, sure. Old country, yes. Newer pop country? Especially post-911 country? Ugh. No.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:39 AM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


to say nothing of Naked Raygun, The Queers, Screeching Weasel, Social Distortion, and many more

....aaaaand I've gone and confused Bad Religion and Social Distortion again. Sorry, World Famous.
posted by Hoopo at 11:45 AM on August 23, 2011


I wouldn't exactly call Bad Religion hardcore. At least not by the time No Control was coming out. You were right, Hoppo, even if you didn't mean to be.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 11:49 AM on August 23, 2011


Hey, it's not mythology. It happened.

I don't doubt that it happened to you. I don't doubt that in 1975 lots of kids hated singer-songwriters and felt as if punk rock saved their lives. But as repeated ad nauseum over the last thirty-something years it's a mythology. And as a mythology its as vacuous as any other media hype because, let's be honest here, punk rock didn't really save that many lives and James Taylor, however dull he might be, isn't someone the world really ever needed saving from.

And personally, if I suddenly found myself in NYC in 1975, I'd head to The Loft or The Gallery first, before I looked for any of those hatin' youts.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:51 AM on August 23, 2011



The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock is one thing duller than James Taylor's reign of terror.

Let me describe 1975 to you in a few words. . . Everybody. . . shit. . HATE. . . shit. . . HATE. . . not organizing, just hating. . . they all hated disco.. . And then punk happened. . . doing something with all that hate. . taking on EVERYBODY. . . blowing minds . . .London Calling! . . . explosive in all the right ways. . . Punk saved the world.
The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock is one thing duller than James Taylor's reign of terror.
The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock is one thing duller than James Taylor's reign of terror.

Let me describe 1975 to you. . . Everybody. . . shit. . HATE. . . shit. . . HATE. . . just hating. . . hated disco.. . punk happened. . . doing something with all that hate. . taking on EVERYBODY. . . blowing minds . . .London Calling! . . . explosive in all the right ways. . . Punk saved the world.
The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock

1975. . .shit. . HATE. . . shit. . . HATE. . . hating. . . hated disco.. . punk happened. . . with all that hate. . taking on EVERYBODY. . . blowing minds . . .London Calling! . . . explosive in all the right ways. . . Punk saved the world.
The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock

1975. . .shit. . HATE. . . shit. . . HATE. . . hating. . . hated. . . punk . . . with all that hate. . taking on EVERYBODY. . . blowing minds . . .London Calling! . . . explosive in all the right ways. . . Punk saved the world.

The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock

1975
shit
HATE
shit
HATE
hating
hated
punk
hate
taking on
EVERYBODY
blowing
London Calling!
explosive in all the right ways
Punk saved the world. .
The endlessly repeated mythology of punk rock



posted by Herodios at 11:57 AM on August 23, 2011 [16 favorites]


I reckon any sort of talk about "the good old days" gets tiresome after a while, but I honestly haven't run across punk being "mythologized" to any exaggerated or spammy degree. It has an important place in the context of music history, so likely any talk of 20th century music is going to bring it up. And as punk was not just a musical but a social and sometimes political movement, its brief furnace blast of energy will still get talked about today.

Of course, I'm also reading England's Dreaming currently, which is an extraordinarily comprehensive study of the social forces that brought about the punk movement, including everything from the rise of conservatism to the influence of the 1968 Paris riots.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:59 AM on August 23, 2011


i love james taylor and paul simon and also early, mid, and late punk rock. what do i win?
posted by nadawi at 12:04 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Punk rock would not have needed to be invented were it not for the likes of James Fucking Taylor "

Well then maybe you ought to thank the man, then.


I did, about half an hour before you made your comment.
posted by philip-random at 12:05 PM on August 23, 2011


i love james taylor and paul simon and also early, mid, and late punk rock. what do i win?

Dinner with Henry Rollins and Jackson Browne!
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:07 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Dinner with Henry Rollins and Jackson Browne!

yes please! although, my husband would probably spend the dinner reading unintentionally hilarious passages of "on the bus" to henry rollins.
posted by nadawi at 12:10 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


My favorite bands in 1977 were Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, and come 1979, that was still pretty much the case.

LOL, I saw Yes and Jethro Tull in concert sometime around 75. I even saw prog rock acts like Uriah Heep and Zappa. We were desperate for entertainment.

But I was also subscribing to NME and Melody Maker since '74. Oh man was that expensive. So I got the word early, and started special ordering albums and singles from the UK. That's what it took to get punk albums, special orders.

I'll tell you my first really punk public action. I had a concert t shirt, white with the Yes logo on it. I spray painted NO across the logo, ripped it to pieces, and pinned it back together with safety pins. Oh you should have seen how people reacted, it was priceless.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:12 PM on August 23, 2011


James Taylor sends holiday cards to my wife's grandmother. He looks really friendly in his family photos. Which is nice.
posted by that's candlepin at 12:22 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


I don't doubt that it happened to you. I don't doubt that in 1975 lots of kids hated singer-songwriters and felt as if punk rock saved their lives. But as repeated ad nauseum over the last thirty-something years it's a mythology.

I define myth as something that didn't actually happen. It may be inspired by things that happened but the myth itself is fiction. Punk (the phenomena which includes the music) did happen, and it's my belief that it did far more than just make a few people feel like their lives had been saved. Because it offered an artistic channel for a lot of white hot anger that might otherwise have been turned inward (depression, psychosis, etc) or outward (physical violence). Again, this isn't mythology. This is what happened. The anger, the spite
the shit
HATE
shit
HATE
hating
hated
punk
hate
taking on
EVERYBODY
actually affected the culture, like a guerilla army that hardly won any battles (precious few punk tunes or albums ever topped the charts) but man, did they earn their place at the adult table! Why do you think we're still talking about it, trying to put a frame on it?

Seriously. Don't kid yourself if you weren't there. Punk wasn't just some passing phenom that a few music critics got excited about for a while (and some marketers figured out how to sell), it was a force that caused a seismic shift in where the culture was going (like the Beats in the 1950s, the Hippies in the 1960s, Hip-Hop and dance/rave/beat culture in the 80s and 90s).

Dismiss it all if you must but then I must ask: what do you not dismiss?
posted by philip-random at 12:23 PM on August 23, 2011


And finally, yeah, I too have some 70s soft-rock in my iTunes shuffle: no James Taylor (though there is that cover I mentioned earlier), but definitely some Carly Simon, and Paul, mid-period Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, even a few choice Eagle and Supertramp cuts (nope, none of the big hits -- I've got bad allergies there).

Because there are, of course, really only two genres of music. Good and bad.
posted by philip-random at 12:29 PM on August 23, 2011


yes please! although, my husband would probably spend the dinner reading unintentionally hilarious passages of "on the bus" to henry rollins.

Henry Rollins has a sixth-degree black belt in Unintentionally Hilarious.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:40 PM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


oh man, i'm so embarrased, it's GET IN THE VAN, not on the bus (which is apparently my brain scrambling kerouac and spike lee)
posted by nadawi at 12:43 PM on August 23, 2011


I definitely might be wrong, but wasn't Ken Kesey the on-the-bus guy?
posted by box at 12:45 PM on August 23, 2011


No, On the Bus is Tom Gabel's book.

HEYO!

I acutally still like Against Me!
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 12:45 PM on August 23, 2011


'Get in the Ring' was that Guns 'n' Roses song about music critics. Those guys kinda considered themselves kinda part-punk, didn't they?
posted by box at 12:48 PM on August 23, 2011


Guns'n'Roses may have had some punk records in their collections but there was nothing punk about they presented. They were old school hard-rawk all the way (Stones-Led-Zep-Aerosmith), flailing the long hair, striking the godlike poses, chugging the Jack Daniels, snorting the expensive powders. And they were good.
posted by philip-random at 1:02 PM on August 23, 2011


mid-period Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan

I'm impressed with the staying power these two bands have had for me -- maybe it's because I'm a rhythm section guy, and both of those bands had world-class rhythm sections, but also, Buckingham, Becker and Fagan are singular songwriting talents, and they had a conspicuous ear for detail in the studio. The Buckingham-era Mac & the mid-period Dan stuff is stunningly well-crafted art, no matter where it fits into the lexicon style-wise.

I also had my world changed by a handful of albums in '78 -'79 though, and thanks for that. I was also down the prog rabbit hole for a while, and had my head ripped off & screwed back on straight by XTC's Drums and Wires, Costello's This Year's Model, Joe Jackon's Look Sharp, the first B52s album, and More Songs About Buildings and Food. I was there for the first eave of punk, and it was positively electric, but it was the New Wave a couple years later that finally drew me in for good.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:07 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


*wave* of punk.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:08 PM on August 23, 2011


I don't wanna kiss you. I don't wanna touch.
I don't wanna see you 'cause I don't miss you that much.

I mean, when I found out you could have the punk attitude, with some real gut level quality music, played by absolute monsters, that right there was it. BAM.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:12 PM on August 23, 2011


I wouldn't exactly call Bad Religion hardcore. At least not by the time No Control was coming out

True, but they were no strangers to those hardcore boom-bap-boom-bap-boom-bap drums.
posted by Hoopo at 1:13 PM on August 23, 2011


Because there are, of course, really only two genres of music.

Stuff I like and stuff I don't.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:39 PM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


I don't wanna kiss you. I don't wanna touch.
I don't wanna see you 'cause I don't miss you that much


Well, it aint exactly this:

I don't need none of your bedroom bruised sweet box
And I don't need none of your spoiled ass sweet talk
I wanna write on your face with my pretty knife
I wanna toy with your precious life

posted by Hoopo at 1:47 PM on August 23, 2011


Every single one of those songs is from an album released in 1989. Are you saying Bad Religion, D.R.I., Gorilla Biscuits, and Leatherface (to say nothing of Naked Raygun, The Queers, Screeching Weasel, Social Distortion, and many more) are all nostalgia/novelty acts.

You're right. They're not nostalgia/novelty acts.
posted by The World Famous at 2:06 PM on August 23, 2011


Are we done hating on James Taylor yet?
posted by cjorgensen at 2:17 PM on August 23, 2011


Yup. We're hating Frederick Winslow Taylor now.

Fucking efficiency, man.
posted by box at 2:23 PM on August 23, 2011


Fucking efficiency, man.

Pleasure twice, come once.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:28 PM on August 23, 2011


We could hate John Mayer. I tried to get something started earlier but no seemed to want to bite.
posted by philip-random at 2:30 PM on August 23, 2011


I just ate. Hold the Mayer.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:39 PM on August 23, 2011


Your favorite thread sucks.
posted by Splunge at 2:47 PM on August 23, 2011


john mayer is such a creep. his song daughters is missing the line "so they don't date assholes like me."
posted by nadawi at 3:19 PM on August 23, 2011


I just discovered that Op Ivy's *Energy* was released in '89. Punk was going strong then, and it's still going strong.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 3:25 PM on August 23, 2011


Well, it aint exactly this:

I don't need none of your bedroom bruised sweet box
And I don't need none of your spoiled ass sweet talk
I wanna write on your face with my pretty knife
I wanna toy with your precious life


I'm... glad?
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:49 PM on August 23, 2011


I just discovered that Op Ivy's *Energy* was released in '89. Punk was going strong then, and it's still going strong.

Yeah, I think Op Ivy qualifies. The others? I'm not so sure. Going strong? Not then, not now.
posted by The World Famous at 4:02 PM on August 23, 2011


I'm... glad?

Just sayin it looks to me like the "punk attitude" was kinda ugly sometimes compared to the Elvis Costello lyrics you quoted.
posted by Hoopo at 4:29 PM on August 23, 2011


Devils Rancher -- where'd you find the lyrics, or do you know them by heart. I've always wanted my band to cover that and could never find 'em!
posted by AJaffe at 4:46 PM on August 23, 2011


and of course, i just found 'em.
posted by AJaffe at 4:48 PM on August 23, 2011


This an Op Ivy thread yet?
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:29 PM on August 23, 2011


Why the hate? I love James Taylor. I don't do concerts, like ever, but I took my sis to see him in concert (woo first concert ever lol) just over a year ago (2 years?) in Victoria, BC. Had an amazing time, very talented man.
posted by 1000monkeys at 5:54 PM on August 23, 2011


I like both kinds of music. Country and Western.
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:56 PM on August 23, 2011


Well jeez, 1000monkeys, I thought I was culturally deprived growing up in Iowa, but that is just pitiful. My first concert was Iron Butterfly warming up for Jefferson Airplane. I am reminded of an old joke I heard on the National Lampoon Radio Hour.

Q: What's the number one hit on Canadian radio?
A: Whatever was the number one hit on American radio 3 months ago.
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:02 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


I heard that James Taylor once peed on a Muppet.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:02 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


and he was a junkie -- full on rockandrolla!
posted by philip-random at 6:08 PM on August 23, 2011


Punk rock would not have needed to be invented were it not for the likes of James Fucking Taylor and the weedy neediness inherent in his music and the cultural cancer it accelerated.

I split the difference and listen to punk with weedy, needy lyrics!
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:21 PM on August 23, 2011


I heard that James Taylor once peed on a Muppet.
posted by
It's Raining Florence Henderson

I once peed on James Taylor.
posted by 1000monkeys at 6:56 PM on August 23, 2011


well, all i've got to say about the 70s was that my favorite performer was neil young - i learned how to play guitar from harvest and followed him all the way - even through the 80s

that's why this hippie folkie vs punk thing seems so irrelevant to me - my man had BOTH - often on the same album

my other faves - grateful dead, amon duul 2, king crimson, cymande, rolling stones, man, led zeppelin, yes, genesis, jethro tull (but not after living in the past), iggy and the stooges, gong, steve hillage, pink floyd (first album - ummagumma), joni mitchell and a lot of top 40 stuff, even disco that i'm sure many of you think is crap - and a lot of r&b

i admit that i liked elp, too, but i've changed my mind on that

i was a few years late with p-funk - and way, way late with laura nyro

james taylor i didn't mind - and i liked the sex pistols, but next to neil moaning tonight's the night, iggy threatening that he was loose and sly crying that he felt so good, he couldn't move, they didn't seem real overwhelming to me
posted by pyramid termite at 8:51 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


Two of my favorite songs from the 70s are "Horse with No Name" by America, and "Gidget Goes to Hell" by the Suburban Lawns. If instead of smashing your genres, punk became yet another genre, you have to go back and repeat punk until you get it right.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:22 PM on August 23, 2011


Q: What's the number one hit on Canadian radio?
A: Whatever was the number one hit on American radio 3 months ago.


the saddest part is it's probably Arcade Fire or Drake
posted by mannequito at 9:44 PM on August 23, 2011


That's not sailing. THIS is sailing.

No, no. This is saiiing.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:09 PM on August 23, 2011


There is a version of Lola that the Kinks performed in the seventies that is probably one of the best things I've ever heard. And I've heard a lot of things.
posted by Sailormom at 7:34 AM on August 24, 2011


i refuse to click on any of the sailing links, terrified they're styx. even without hearing it, it's already in my head. damn you, metafilter!
posted by nadawi at 7:43 AM on August 24, 2011


I have never and will never link to Styx. That's the god's honest truth and my solemn oath to you.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:51 AM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]


I have never and will never link to Styx. That's the god's honest truth and my solemn oath to you.

どうもありがとう
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:32 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


half the fun of sailing is coming into port
posted by pyramid termite at 9:21 AM on August 24, 2011


her name is lola she was a showgirl
posted by rfs at 9:50 AM on August 24, 2011


En El Copa!
posted by mintcake! at 9:54 AM on August 24, 2011


I have never and will never link to Styx. That's the god's honest truth and my solemn oath to you.

I have linked to Styx. I was younger then and not so wise as to the impact of these things. I now find that such a link is akin to Godwinning. It's not that it shouldn't be done, but it shouldn't be done deceptively. In the spirit of this, a Styx song, of which it has been said, that if anyone could ever express how truly bad it is, the world would have to end (in sympathy).
posted by philip-random at 9:57 AM on August 24, 2011


i think it's fair to say that bands like styx did more to inspire punk as a reaction than james taylor did - taylor never really claimed to rock and roll, you know - styx did
posted by pyramid termite at 10:09 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


Credit where it is due: Styx inspired the greatest headline in rock journalism history. Rolling Stone reported that Styx recorded their first new album in a while, and it was a hit. The headline: "Lax Styx Wax Clicks."
posted by charlie don't surf at 10:22 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


I am ashamed to say I once purchased a Styx album with hard earned baby sitting money. Though I was very young and naive I should have known better. Even my quaalude addled, Ted Nugent lovin' boyfriend could tell they were shit.

I am glad to have gotten that off my chest. I think I can finally put it behind me.

I always found it difficult to get rid of albums so that embarrassment followed me around for a bit. Can't imagine where it's got to.
posted by readery at 10:42 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


i think it's fair to say that bands like styx did more to inspire punk as a reaction than james taylor did -

There's truth to this. I know of at least one so-called punk who credits a particular Styx concert (it would've been around 1978) as being his personal turning point. That is, he walked in a fan. He walked out embarrassed. And within a week or two, he'd cut his sculpted 70s hair, ditched his flared jeans, and was singing the praises of Devo (at least, that's how I remember it).

But Styx didn't really break through until around 1977, so in a weird way, they rose with punk, riding one of the ripples it created, which was, the anti-punk ripple. In other words, they were the kind of rock band that people who hated punk and new wave could like (and there were a lot of folks who HATED punk and new wave). Foreigner were this kind of band as well, as were units like Kansas and Boston ... but Styx were special. Styx had secret weapon. Styx had Dennis DeYoung.
posted by philip-random at 10:45 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


The Fixx were kind of cool, though.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 11:05 AM on August 24, 2011


Legend has it that when the Apple family set about renaming The Iveys (to Badfinger, eventually) Lennon's recommendation was 'Prix.' I still think that'd be a fantastic band name.

Also: Styx were great, and Kilroy Was Here/"Mr. Roboto" especially so. It's all happening at the zoo.
posted by mintcake! at 11:58 AM on August 24, 2011


LOS ANGELES—In an announcement that has caused grave concern within the nation's hip-hop community, the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP) revealed Monday that only two songs remain for rappers to sample, Tiny Tim's "Tiptoe Through The Tulips" and Styx's "Mr. Roboto."
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:01 PM on August 24, 2011


Styx inspired the greatest headline in rock journalism history. . . ""Lax Styx Wax Clicks."

Perhaps you are unfamilar with the archetype: Variety (July 17, 1935).

"Sticks Nix Hick Pix".
posted by Herodios at 12:05 PM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]


Taylor Paler Wailer Failure, but +1 Fingernailer
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:12 PM on August 24, 2011


now i want a shirt that says +1 fingernailer
posted by nadawi at 12:37 PM on August 24, 2011


Yes, Herodios, I am aware of that headline. I used to work in an office with a subscription to Variety. But I will argue the RS headline is better. Alliteration degree of difficulty: triple X. Variety: double X.
posted by charlie don't surf at 1:59 PM on August 24, 2011


Actually, after further investigation it would seem that The Fixx only had that one good song.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 2:31 PM on August 24, 2011


Come on, now. "Are We Ourselves?" is a good song, too.
posted by The World Famous at 2:40 PM on August 24, 2011


Hmm, "Are We Ourselves?" poses the right question, but musically it seems like canned meatloaf.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 2:48 PM on August 24, 2011


musically it seems like canned meatloaf

Is that like a mashup of Canned Heat and Meatloaf? Interesting. Going up the country, going like a bat out of hell. Going up the country, going like a bat out of hell. Going to some place, like I've never sinned before.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:56 PM on August 24, 2011 [4 favorites]


"Red Skies" was a pretty great song.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:17 PM on August 24, 2011


"Red Skies" is not bad, but man it's like they just shot their load and could never really refract properly from "One Thing Leads to Another". That one is better than dozens of lame 80s hits, and really is an impeccable pop tune. I spent some time checking out their catalog and it seems they sort of moved from catchy vague existentialism to more musically staid and overt preachiness as they aged. I guess with all the residuals still flowing in from one song back in 1983 they can do what makes them happy.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 7:33 PM on August 24, 2011


actually, rolling stone's most infamous headline was on art linkletter's daughter's suicide - "kids do the darndest things" - 1-11-69
posted by pyramid termite at 9:36 PM on August 24, 2011


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