I'm already sad, the commercialism is just making things worse. September 10, 2011 11:56 AM   Subscribe

Am I the only one who is disgusted and depressed by the coverage of the 10th Anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks?

This is my first MetaTalk and I might be doing it wrong, but I'd really like to hear from other people on this issue.

I really feel like most people are taking this tragedy and using it for their own gain. This AskMe kind of illustrates how I feel except that I know there is no great conspiracy. Regretsy has had a few posts about people using the slightest reason to sell crap that somehow ties to 9/11.

Don't get me wrong, I think memorials are good. I don't think we should ever forget. I'm super happy about the new construction at the site of the World Trade Center. I just think we need to do things in a far less commercial way.

What happened to memorials that had a little class and decorum? It seems like things are turning into a celebration and that really disturbs me.

I'm also disgusted by the people who are using this loss of life as a RAH RAH AMERICA banner. I'm about as patriotic as it gets but using this to further political agendas really turns my stomach.
posted by TooFewShoes to MetaFilter-Related at 11:56 AM (257 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite



This is really the first big disaster that the 24 hour news cycle has coverage of, and they're going to do everything they can to milk the fuck out of it for as long as possible. Y'know how Christmas music starts up in November? 9/11 is Christmas to the news industry.
posted by graventy at 12:01 PM on September 10, 2011 [10 favorites]


There are like 3-4 MeTas on this subject already, actually. (I am totally okay with more bitching about this grotendous situation, don't get me wrong.)
posted by elizardbits at 12:04 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


I totally understand what you're saying graventy. I just wish it could all be a little more somber I guess.

Next thing you know we'll all get "Patriot's Day" off from work and school and it'll turn into another BBQ and beer holiday like Memorial Day.
posted by TooFewShoes at 12:04 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


I think you need to go tell the people directly responsible for the things that offend you rather than complain about it here in an isolated corner of nowhere.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 12:04 PM on September 10, 2011 [9 favorites]


Are you the only one? No, of course not. Most of the mentions I see online of 9/11 remembrances are complaining about them in some way or another (hamfisted appeals to emotion, commercialism, whatever).

I'm not sure what you want from this MeTa?
posted by hattifattener at 12:05 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


TooFewShoes: Am I the only one who is disgusted and depressed by the coverage of the 10th Anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks?

No, and all you need to do is take a look inside a few recent threads (1 2 3) to see that.

What happened to memorials that had a little class and decorum?

Right here.
posted by gman at 12:05 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


This feels like chatfilter to me unless you really want to discuss a specific post or a trend you see in posts on the blue or green. And as pointed out above, this has already been discussed in multiple MeTas.
posted by That's Numberwang! at 12:06 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


I like how that crazy 9-11 painting clearly portrays Jesus as more powerful than Santa Claus. Not only is it a reminder to NEVAR FORGIT, it is some kind of metaphysical teaching aid, like a Tibetan thangka.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 12:07 PM on September 10, 2011


This is really the first big disaster that the 24 hour news cycle has coverage of, and they're going to do everything they can to milk the fuck out of it for as long as possible. Y'know how Christmas music starts up in November? 9/11 is Christmas to the news industry.

November? November?? Luxury! I was in the supermarket today and they had advent calendars and mince pies for sale.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 12:08 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


I didn't see the posts on the blue. I was just feeling so disgusted by the bombardment of everyone trying to tell me how I should feel about this. I chose MetaTalk as my outlet. Like I said, this is my first one. Obviously I did it wrong.

Mods can shut this down whenever they want.
posted by TooFewShoes at 12:08 PM on September 10, 2011


I don't know whether this is an appropriate use of metatalk. That said, it's basically a given that on the 10th annoversary of an incredibly deadly and disasterous attack on American soil the media would devote this kind of attention to it. I think it would be more surprising to a majority of Americans if there wasn't this kind of coverage.

Still, to a degree I get what you're saying. The media has long since run out of things to say about September 11th. Ten years on, they are just going through the patriotic motions. I honestly find myself wondering what it must be like to have lost someone in these attacks. There must be incredibly stressful triggers for you everywhere. Bumper stickers, tv, t-shirts. Millions of people co-opting your very personal tragedy and tailoring it to whatever ideology they serve.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 12:11 PM on September 10, 2011


LOLWTCDUSTSNORTERZ
posted by Horselover Phattie at 12:15 PM on September 10, 2011


I was just feeling so disgusted by the bombardment of everyone trying to tell me how I should feel about this. I chose MetaTalk as my outlet.

BZZT! You're disgusted by the bombardment so you decided to extend it to a totally unrelated portion of this website? Not helping.
posted by carsonb at 12:16 PM on September 10, 2011 [10 favorites]


Is it Monday yet? Jesus
posted by asockpuppet at 12:17 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Arg, me matey! Just bloody well say, "Arg!" already.
posted by Ardiril at 12:18 PM on September 10, 2011


Arg, I think I'm going to go out for tacos tonight
posted by asockpuppet at 12:19 PM on September 10, 2011


I hope you're going to order Freedom Tacos.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 12:20 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


Tomorrow a Harbor Freight Tools is having a grand opening in my town. I've never been to a HF but I can't think of a better way of memorializing 9/11 than buying a bunch of cheap, foreign made tools.
posted by bondcliff at 12:21 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


Def getting a Freedomargarita
posted by asockpuppet at 12:22 PM on September 10, 2011


This is such a vague critique that I can't help but think that the subject of 9/11 qua 9/11 gets people's goat. It was pretty revealing to read yesterday about how many MeFites found it wrong that 9/11 was taught in schools, as if kids who were born after 9/11 shouldn't have some kind of frame for understanding what was the defining world historical event of the last 10 years.

Can I get, some, I don't know, examples of what some of you guys see as so offensive? We can all agree that the $19.11 wine bottles are tacky and gross, for instance. Anything else?

and i agree that we can end this chatfilter anytime...
posted by BobbyVan at 12:23 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is such a vague critique that I can't help but think that the subject of 9/11 qua 9/11 gets people's goat.

Their pet goat?
posted by asockpuppet at 12:24 PM on September 10, 2011 [13 favorites]


I thought this, about the differences between the 10th anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack and 9/11, was pretty interesting.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:34 PM on September 10, 2011


did somebody say TACOS?
posted by elizardbits at 12:35 PM on September 10, 2011


The mega-CVS near my house had a fully stocked Christmas section in mid-August. I sez to the manager, "what took you so long? I've been wanting to do my Xmas shopping since March!"
posted by telstar at 12:37 PM on September 10, 2011




"The Pet Goat" is the story of a girl's pet goat that eats everything in its path. The girl's parents want to get rid of the goat, but she defends it. In the end, the goat becomes a hero when it butts a car thief into submission.

The story gained notoriety in 2001 after U.S. President George W. Bush continued reading the book with an elementary school class for seven minutes after being informed of the September 11 attacks.
posted by futz at 12:39 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Not sure this is the best place to raise your rant, but on the bright side, you only have to endure it for another 36 hours, and then the media will find something else to cram down your throat. (If it's any consolation, I agree with you.)
posted by crunchland at 12:41 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


Why is this even in MetaTalk?

It should be in ChatFilter. Oh, wait ...
posted by ericb at 12:48 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


FWIW -- tomorrow's commemoration is welcoming and important to a lot of people, especially to those of us who lost friends and/or family in the tragic events ten years ago.

If, for some reason, you are "overwhelmed" by the coverage, simple PROTIP: don't watch the programs; don't read the websites and postings or magazines and newspapers. No one is forcing you to do any of those things.

And, BTW -- fuckin' get over yourselves!
posted by ericb at 12:53 PM on September 10, 2011 [11 favorites]


I don't watch aired television. I don't watch local news coverage. I don't see commercials so I am somewhat insulated form this but yeah, TooFewShoes , I am completely with you on what you are feeling - and then some. I was in a bar last evening , I made a remark about 9-11 coverage on the local television. The supposedly liberal (but not too bright) gay man next to me said "We need to celebrate this because we need to show them that they haven't won. We need to make a statement about this so they all know we are America and we don't cave in" , a paraphrase of course but that's pretty much what he said. And that's the thinking from probably 80% of Americans I would bet.

I just smiled when he said that and made no comment but in my mind I was recalling how pretty much each and every constitutional civil right we had has been taken away from us in the past ten years, how have secret concentration camps stationed throughout the world, how we have no money for job creation, how taking a photo in the Mall of America can get you on the terrorist watch list, how flying airplanes is not fun anymore. I was thinking Terrorists:1 America:0. But then again, I am in a minority when it comes to how Americans think.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 12:55 PM on September 10, 2011 [9 favorites]


The supposedly liberal (but not too bright) gay man ...

And the point of you pointing out his sexual orientation is exactly "what?" Was he black, white, Jewish or elderly?
posted by ericb at 12:59 PM on September 10, 2011 [10 favorites]


fuckin' get over yourselves! - There's no fun in that.
posted by Ardiril at 12:59 PM on September 10, 2011


Actually, I've been mostly ignoring a lot of the more crass maudlin bits of coverage. I was rather pleased with the MSNBC Rachel Maddow thing, which wasn't so much about 9/11 and was much more about everything we've put our country through as a result.

Equally interesting was Talk Of The Nation Science Friday's 40 minutes on the psychological studies which were done during the aftermath of 9/11 and what they've taught us about psychological care of first responders after such a big event.

I also enjoyed On The Media's examination of the civil liberty compromises which have arisen post-9/11 and how they relate to individuals and the press.

I guess I've been participating in a certain amount of reflection, but none of it actually about the planes hitting the buildings.
posted by hippybear at 12:59 PM on September 10, 2011 [8 favorites]


ericb: "No one is forcing you to do any of those things. "

It would be nice though if people could find it within themselves not to infuse it into any situation that is even remotely and /or tangentially related to the event. But that does not seem to be the case. No matter where you go, there it is. The remembrance fever seems to have a grip on every person, place and thing.

Unless you crawl under rock for the next couple of days, somehow you are going to hear 9/11 whispered in your ear somehow. Even the earthworms are in on it. It is a conspiracy.


And, BTW -- fuckin' get over yourselves
And you can attempt to be nice about it if that matters.
posted by lampshade at 1:03 PM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


And the point of you pointing out his sexual orientation is exactly "what?"

The point being that I was in an LGBT bar and , as you will discover as you get older and meet a variety of people in this world, is that LGBT people , in general, are far more progressive politically than their straight counterparts and even so you have this pervasive nationalist thinking regarding 9-11. I hope that the reason that the O.P. posted this in MetaFilter was perhaps to minimize the number of 9-11 postings , which are going to be inevitable in any case, but frankly I could do with less nationalism and more jobs.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 1:05 PM on September 10, 2011 [6 favorites]


Not again.
posted by futz at 1:08 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


lampshade -- thanks for the advice, but I'll communicate my thoughts (and emotions) as I choose.
posted by ericb at 1:10 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Dude, you are calling out ericb, mefi's most prolific and thoughtful and excellent poster of LBGT issues, as being immature and ignorant of LGBT people in general.

what the actual fuck.
posted by elizardbits at 1:11 PM on September 10, 2011 [8 favorites]


elizardbits - what the fuck are you talking about?
posted by Poet_Lariat at 1:13 PM on September 10, 2011


All I'm gonna say is, I'm not gonna forget. You don't need to cover it again or remind me never to forget. I remember, okay?

This is ten years so the memorial stuff is appropriate I guess, but we don't need to do this every year.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:14 PM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


Next thing you know we'll all get "Patriot's Day" off from work and school and it'll turn into another BBQ and beer holiday like Memorial Day.

Sounds good to me. Americans fucking suck at solemn and respectful and shouldn't try. But we can do barbecues.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:15 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


The point being that I was in an LGBT bar and , as you will discover as you get older and meet a variety of people in this world, is that LGBT people , in general, are far more progressive politically than their straight counterparts

Really?
posted by futz at 1:15 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


as you will discover as you get older and meet a variety of people in this world, is that LGBT people , in general

oh sorry I guess you meant that in a non-obnoxious and sarcastic way, my mistake.
posted by elizardbits at 1:15 PM on September 10, 2011


elizardbits - how about you just stop being an asshat about everything that I post?
posted by Poet_Lariat at 1:17 PM on September 10, 2011


Next thing you know we'll all get "Patriot's Day" off from work and school ...

Here in Massachusetts we get just that every April 19, along with the Boston Marathon.
posted by ericb at 1:18 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


BTW -- as you likely know, 9/11 has been deemed Patriot Day, as a result of Public Law 107-89.
posted by ericb at 1:21 PM on September 10, 2011


how about you just stop being an asshat about everything that I post?

How about you stop making sweeping generalizations disguised as facts?
posted by futz at 1:21 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


How about we stop arguing entirely using questions?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:23 PM on September 10, 2011 [20 favorites]


wait, damnit
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:23 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


Patriot Day.... Freedumb Fries.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 1:23 PM on September 10, 2011


LGBT people , in general, are far more progressive politically than their straight counterparts ...
"Black people, in general, are far more progressive politically than their white counterparts ..."

"Jewish people, in general, are far more progressive politically than their Christian counterparts ..."
Would anyone take offense with such characterizations?
posted by ericb at 1:24 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


ericb: "lampshade -- thanks for the advice, but I'll communicate my thoughts (and emotions) as I choose.
"

in other words, it doesn't matter then. fine. have a good one.
posted by lampshade at 1:26 PM on September 10, 2011


the more crass maudlin bits of coverage

Oh, man, absolutely *DO NOT* tune in to ABC tonight at 7:30 pm ET for the NASCAR race in Richmond. In addition to the usual ritual bullshit, they are featuring "Laps Of Silence" during laps 9 through 11. Of course, no one will hear that over 43 high-powered unmufflered petroleum rapers, but it's the thought that counts.

"Black people, in general, are far more progressive politically than their white counterparts ..."

I thought that had already been well documented.
posted by Ardiril at 1:26 PM on September 10, 2011


I'd need to see statistics which support the theories put forward in any of those sentences. Until then, they're unfounded generalizations.
posted by hippybear at 1:27 PM on September 10, 2011


lampshade -- you, too. Enjoy the remainder of your day/night.
posted by ericb at 1:27 PM on September 10, 2011


That's weird, none of the episodes of Louie that I'm binging on have mentioned it. Maybe stop watching live TV and reading CNN?
posted by nathancaswell at 1:29 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


pretty much each and every constitutional civil right we had has been taken away from us in the past ten years

For Christ's sake...
posted by gjc at 1:29 PM on September 10, 2011 [6 favorites]


"Laps Of Silence" during laps 9 through 11

A crash during these laps would be fascinating on any number of levels.
posted by darksasami at 1:30 PM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


Not totally sure what is going on here, but it's a stretch to call it MeFi-related, so folks can talk about MeFi, be decent to each other, or we'll close this and refer folks to the other 911 MeTa threads already in progress.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:31 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


A crash during these laps would be fascinating on any number of levels. - Especially if it involves a plane.
posted by Ardiril at 1:33 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


pretty much each and every constitutional civil right we had has been taken away from us in the past ten years

For Christ's sake...


Hey, you know it's illegal to say "C*****" now
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:37 PM on September 10, 2011


"Constitutional"?
posted by Ardiril at 1:38 PM on September 10, 2011


... or "Civil"?
posted by Ardiril at 1:38 PM on September 10, 2011


cookie is illegal? NOOO.
posted by elizardbits at 1:39 PM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


Not totally sure what is going on here, but it's a stretch to call it MeFi-related, so folks can talk about MeFi, be decent to each other, or we'll close this and refer folks to the other 911 MeTa threads already in progress.

*Puts baby on the table, starts changing it, while extolling the virtues of the iPhone*
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:39 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


*publicly nurses baby I dress completely in americana and nascar while refusing to vaccinate or disclose its sex*
posted by the young rope-rider at 1:42 PM on September 10, 2011 [13 favorites]


*declaws and circumcises BB's iphone*
posted by elizardbits at 1:43 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


*trademarks use of asterisks to denote action, sues elizardbits*
posted by the young rope-rider at 1:44 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


Jesus stop fighting with each other. Can't you see that's what the terrorists want?

Show them that Metafilter stands united. Metafilter is strong. Love your fellow Mefite. Don't let the terrorists destroy Metafilter.
posted by bondcliff at 1:45 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


*loves and tolerates the shit out of young rope-rider*
posted by elizardbits at 1:48 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


*blames obama for the young rope-rider while munching on cilantro and bacon snacks*
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:49 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Cilantro" is illegal. No, wait, ...
posted by Ardiril at 1:50 PM on September 10, 2011


Is this really a meta if its saying "I'm not happy with the way society is looking at this thing"? I thought it was more of a metafilter specific kinda gray.
posted by hal_c_on at 2:01 PM on September 10, 2011


Is this really a meta if its saying "I'm not happy with the way society is looking at this thing"?

This seems like the natural evolution of grary MeTas, so....yeah.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:03 PM on September 10, 2011


*serves home-grown organic heirloom Jacob's Turtle beans on hand-thrown ceramic plate, with side of artisanal bacon*
posted by catlet at 2:05 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


*Complains about the USAian focus of this thread*
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:08 PM on September 10, 2011


I understand where you are coming from. I have been so down in the dumps lately because of this. The commercialism sucks.

But, and I do not want this to come out the wrong way, I live in a very liberal area and work in kind of a dive restaurant that caters to old-timers and left-leaners alike. We hung up a memorial banner thing behind the register. Some of the customers come in and are just so disrespectful. Someone said that they hoped we were displaying it ironically. Someone pointed at the banner and said "We deserved it" when they gave me their money. They don't know that my sister and I, who both work at the restaurant, lost a relative in the attacks. Maybe they wouldn't care? I dunno.

It's a fine line. I totally get that it's disrespectful to commercialize such a tragic, tragic event. Remembering it and showing your support for your country is another thing entirely, and it makes me sad that some people see that as a sign of stupidity or backwardness.
posted by pintapicasso at 2:17 PM on September 10, 2011 [8 favorites]


Sorry but why can't you just stay off those sites if it bothers you so much? I hate the coverage too which is why I am not looking at the front page, NYT, or Huffington Post. I don't even plan on watching The Daily Show or Colbert early next week.

Go outside and read a book. While that regretsy link made me throw up, how is that relevant to this meta? We don't control what goes on with the rest of the internet so it might help to stay on topic if Mefi 9/11 coverage is what is bothering you.
posted by babby╩╝); Drop table users; -- at 2:24 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]




Next thing you know we'll all get "Patriot's Day" off from work

Fine with me, but only if we move the observance to *election* day.


And you have not seen the ultimate in 9/11-sploitation until you have seen Herman Cain's latest campaign video. Here is a TPM article on the video, with the YT embedded. It goes beyond disaster porn to a new level.
posted by spitbull at 2:43 PM on September 10, 2011


Yes.
posted by Debaser626 at 2:47 PM on September 10, 2011


I mean... No.
posted by Debaser626 at 2:48 PM on September 10, 2011


Spitbull, you were not exaggerating .......holy crap was that tonedeaf.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:51 PM on September 10, 2011


Yeah, I can't wait until Monday. What is the deal with round numbers? We'd have been over this two years ago if people had eight fingers.
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:59 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


So I just got back from the ATM and as it was processing my cash withdrawal, the machine told me that "WE HONOR THE MEMORY OF 9-11". Then I took my money. It's probably the most American thing I've done all week.
posted by Think_Long at 3:17 PM on September 10, 2011 [12 favorites]


Kroger is getting some free press by having their employees (and presumably customers who find themselves in their stores at the time) observe a moment of silence at 8:46 a.m. tomorrow. So yeah, I can turn off the news and I can ignore the websites but there is no way to avoid the maudlin, masturbatory 9/11 fetishization that cheapens everything that happened that day and since. Maybe Kroger will have some made-in-China support-the-troops magnets on sale too.
posted by headnsouth at 3:25 PM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


there is no way to avoid the maudlin, masturbatory 9/11 fetishization that cheapens everything that happened that day and since

This really really depends on where you are. There are a lot of somber patriotic "support the troops" people out where I live, but I do not see any of this weird shit at all.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:27 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


I am not disgusted or depressed by September 11 overkill. Mostly I am ignoring everything going on outside my apartment although I will tune in to my local NFL game at noon tomorrow for three hours so it could still easily happen.

There is a flippin' FULL MOON tomorrow night for what that is worth!
posted by bukvich at 3:28 PM on September 10, 2011


I've turned off the teevee and radio, including NPR. I think there's a certain amount of mild PTSD from watching those pictures of the planes hitting the towers and the Pentagon, knowing that thousands had just been murdered, over and over and over. The stories after the attacks were compelling; I could not stop reading them, mostly linked from Metafilter.

Because of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, we are in 2 wars. We went to war in Iraq based on complete and utter lies, and the government's gross negligence in investigating them, because they wanted to go to war in Iraq. That's a genuine tragedy that caused thousands of deaths. Nice to be rid of Saddam Hussein, but the cost in lives and money, in Iraq, the US, and other countries, is far too high. We went to war in Afghanistan to fight real terrorists. We're still there, for who knows how long, with thousands dead. We've made some real progress against the Taliban, but I really can't assess the effectiveness of the war. And civil rights in the US have been sharply degraded. And I believe some profoundly cynical people have used the attacks to take the culture in the US not just in a jingoist, patriotic direction, but in a teaparty, fundamental religious right direction, with a hidden agenda of serving the rich and the large corporations.

The coverage is smarmy and formulaic, and it isn't at all a critical look at the attacks, the genuine motivation for the attacks, and the results. I haven't heard a whisper about the conspiracists, and little about the gross negligence of the government in ignoring credible reports that the US was likely to be attacked, or the 2 wars spawned. But every channel has a special 9-11/ 10 years after logo, and 9-11 music. And they loop the video footage of the planes hitting like legal violence porn.

Yeah, it's making me pretty crazy, and it's why I don't get news from teevee anymore.
posted by theora55 at 3:29 PM on September 10, 2011 [10 favorites]


There is a flippin' FULL MOON tomorrow night for what that is worth!

W-werewolf terrorists?
posted by byanyothername at 3:31 PM on September 10, 2011


Next thing you know we'll all get "Patriot's Day" off from work and school and it'll turn into another BBQ and beer holiday like Memorial Day.

Patriots' Day (the American Revolution one, honored in MA and ME)

Patriot Day
(commemorates September 11, 2001; signed into law in December 2001)

I much prefer the original.
posted by rtha at 3:34 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


I will tune in to my local NFL game at noon tomorrow for three hours

There is zero chance that there won't be some big appalling 911 spectacle at halftime, dude. ZERO.
posted by elizardbits at 3:34 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


Well, there are already three posts on the frontpage (it's still early, come on!) so this website is obviously also not immune to the overkill of September The Eleventh Syndrome.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 3:35 PM on September 10, 2011


"[T]he maudlin, masturbatory 9/11 fetishi[sts]" and the "somber patriotic 'support the troops' people" are not necessarily the same groups.

"Because of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, we are in [at least] 2 wars."

FTFY. (Libya is arguably one of those wars too, as well as other conflicts that we may or may not know.)
posted by Ardiril at 3:36 PM on September 10, 2011


You didn't do that very well.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 3:38 PM on September 10, 2011


By whose standard? ;-P
posted by Ardiril at 3:39 PM on September 10, 2011


> There is zero chance that there won't be some big appalling 911 spectacle at halftime, dude. ZERO.

Right. I won't be in the stands. The volume for that interval will be very low and I will be doing chess problems or drawing priapitic stick figures or something. There is a non-zero chance that I can elude all public spectacle. Not zero, but definitely non-zero.

I figure if I get creeped out the terrorists and the military industrial complex win.
posted by bukvich at 3:41 PM on September 10, 2011


] Dear people of MeFi, don't take me too seriously (like you never should anyway). I am just keeping warmed up for provoking the Nascar forums. Thank you for your indulgence. Luv & peace, m. [
posted by Ardiril at 3:46 PM on September 10, 2011


I am just keeping warmed up for provoking the Nascar forums.

If you are trolling, please do so elsewhere. If you are not trolling, please look less like you are trolling. Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:49 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


I was disgusted back in 2001 about what happened. Went in circles for months in my li'l Swedish house and didn't know how to properly process it. CNN all day round. I can't bother now.

I mean, honestly. If you want to be disgusted by people, there's always something you can find; Every Single Day, just in the meekest of newsfeeds. If you hate being disgusted by people, just don't look, and certainly not on Regretsy.
posted by Namlit at 3:50 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


W-werewolf terrorists?

Ahhwoooo, Terrwolves of London!
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:55 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


It's a reflection of the fact that pretty much the only media I consume is opt-in via the internet, but probably the only 9/11 stuff I'm encountering other than TPM and Daily Show commentary is the stuff on Mefi, and since I'm mostly just avoiding the actual threads on the blue that have come up that's been narrowed to just the metacommentary here in the grey.

It makes for a weird sense of dislocated solidarity, because while I find the idea of never-ending Never Forget regurgitation totally unappealing and feel sympathy for folks who are frustrated with the grand overdoses they're experiencing and so high fives and hugs and all that, I have not actually been getting a dose, let alone an overdose.

And I don't mean that in a glib way, because I understand that there are environmental factors that are reasonably beyond people's control: depending on where you work or who you live with or what your daily obligations outside the walls of your own home are, you may not be able to insulate yourself as completely as you'd like from Ambient Media. But at the same time, it is weird for me because, given the degree to which I have through some effort managed to create that insulation layer when I want it (and given the meh state of most large-scale news media, I pretty much always want it), the idea of not being able to at least very significantly mitigate that media radiation effect has become kind of foreign.

Ultimately, we get frustrated at stuff that frustrates us and that's normal and human, and Metafilter as, among other things, a social space is a natural venue for folks to want to vent, and to that extent I totally get this kind of Metatalk-post-as-release-valve thing, even if it does feel to me like there's a component to this sort of thing of folks choosing to make a frustration about something external to the site into a complaint about or on the site in a way that doesn't always make a lot of sense or lead to great community interactions in the end.

Also, it's been way too goddam hot in Portland for like a week now and that really needs to change.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:58 PM on September 10, 2011 [8 favorites]


Also, it's been way too goddam hot in Portland for like a week now and that really needs to change.

My brother, you don't know the half of it. I'm surprised half of Austin isn't dead in road rage incidents, but yeah, I talked to my dad out in Gaston last night, and it sounds like it's pretty bad in Portland. Solidarity!
posted by Devils Rancher at 4:05 PM on September 10, 2011


the only 9/11 stuff I'm encountering other than TPM and Daily Show commentary --- Maybe the ddos attack on TPM will re-intensify, and the whole thing will be over before The Daily Show is back on again next week.
posted by crunchland at 4:12 PM on September 10, 2011


I swear to fucking god if tomorrow's True Blood season finale has some covert or overt preachy goddamn fucking 911 message I will hunt down Alan Ball like a mad dog in the street and I will END HIM.
posted by elizardbits at 4:13 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


"*Puts baby on the table"

NOOO! BABBY DROP TABLE!
posted by klangklangston at 4:14 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


I wonder if this is all about mourning, about how we, as individuals, choose to mourn and process trauma. I was discussing this with the husband over lunch, how the 9/11 threads on metafilter so far feel so friggin contentious, and somehow my birthright trip to Israel came up. They paraded us through the Holocaust museum, and then afterwards we were all supposed to talk about our feelings, particularly our feelings as Jews about the Holocaust. And I felt incapable of saying anything. Part of this was the enormity of death and lives lost. Part of it was knowing that the people who did this, though not culturally like me, were humans too. And so rather than feeling a swell of Zionist pride, I just felt conflicted. I wanted to curl up in a ball somewhere and not talk and just honor these feelings--of loss, of guilt, of the terrible fact that, as human beings, we will die someday--that distinctive and individual lives ended. People are capable of awful, awful things, and that's part of it, too.

In Israel, some of the people on the trip said exactly the things that the trip organizers wanted to hear. They tried to draw me out of my shell, to make me say something. I wouldn't, couldn't. I just wanted to be left alone.

When I think about death, I don't want to summarize it in any way that's at all pat. And because of the enormity of something like 9/11 or the Holocaust, I don't really want to be guided in my discussions of it either. It's too thorny, too easy to miss something. The omnipresence of these discussions, and the way that some people, and the media, seem to want them to go . . . it can feel like a violation of that. Like tearing the skin off a scab. If I talk, I want to talk about the complexities. I want to talk about the ugliness. I want to be allowed to make soft-spoken, sad, desperate jokes to my loved ones because sometimes that's all you have when you're feeling grief. I think that some people mistake what is really contemplative, complicated silence for being uncaring, or callous, or cruel. But it's more complicated than that.

So, I dunno. I feel you, TooFewShoes, Poet_Lariat, anyone else I've missed who have expressed some weariness in what might feel like the requisite sentiment. I think it's heavy fucking boots, and hard to deal with, and I'm with you in solidarity.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:19 PM on September 10, 2011 [18 favorites]


My experience is similar to cortex's; I've witnessed pretty much none of the commercialism or hype that's irking people so much, and I think that if it's gotten you to the point that you think a store holding a moment of silence on the anniversary is "maudlin, masturbatory 9/11 fetishization" then it's probably a good idea to step back a bit.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:21 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


I swear to fucking god if tomorrow's True Blood season finale has some covert or overt preachy goddamn fucking 911 message I will hunt down Alan Ball like a mad dog in the street and I will END HIM.

Alan Ball inserting clumsy and obvious political allegory in his work? UNHEARD OF.
posted by nathancaswell at 4:23 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


i will eat his still-beating heart before his dying eyes.
posted by elizardbits at 4:27 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Also, it's been way too goddam hot in Portland for like a week now and that really needs to change.

A week? A week? Wanna trade summers? It's finally cooled down a bit here this past week, but for months before that it was already getting into the upper 90s before I left for work at 8AM, afternoons were 110+, and it didn't drop below 100 until maybe 11PM or midnight.

A week. Pshaw.
posted by kmz at 4:29 PM on September 10, 2011 [6 favorites]


i will eat his still-beating heart before his dying eyes.

If you do it naked you'd be pretty much guaranteed a spot on True Blood.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:37 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


W-werewolf terrorists?

Ahhwoooo, Terrwolves of London!


Terrorwolf Bar-mitzvah, spooky scary. Boys becoming men! Men becoming wolves!
posted by Think_Long at 4:37 PM on September 10, 2011 [6 favorites]


I've witnessed pretty much none of the commercialism or hype that's irking people so much

Yeah, it's kind of eye opening how much I ignore MSM at times. Google News, NPR, BBC and Talking Points Memo are my sources for what's going in the world, so it hasn't been too bad. NPR has gotten pretty lousy about the subject over the past few days and they're going to be a complete bear tomorrow with wall to wall coverage, but hey I don't have to listen.

I wonder if this is all about mourning, about how we, as individuals, choose to mourn and process trauma.

I think it's ignorance and fear, combined with self absorption and the idea that nobody would dare to attack us. As a nation we bought into a certain myth and one fine morning 4 airplanes knocked that to hell. A lot of American don't have a history or way to deal with the fact that the nation is vulnerable, let alone not universally loved for valid reasons. Yeah, we killed Bin Laden finally, but that was didn't fix anything except a vague sense of justice being done. We're still at war and the country has seen better days.

Collectively, we're an immature nation when it comes to dealing with death and the fact that lots of bad things happen in the world. It's not too surprising that our reactions 9/11 have been pretty immature.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:40 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


A week? A week? Wanna trade summers?

Heck no, I live in Portland on purpose. That we're, as a metropolitan citizenry, constitutionally unprepared for the yearly week of heat and day of snow is mostly a feature, not a bug, even if it does make us (rightly) seem like total pushovers when the weather does occasionally forget to be temperate. We don't even own umbrellas, the practical response to the weather we actually do expect, so A/C and snow tires are right out.

The thing I always figured is that if you live in Texas, you know you live in Texas, and you're hopefully prepared (emotionally and climate-control-wise) for ridiculous god-blasting heat for months every year. You may not like it, but it's not like OH GOD WHERE DID THIS COME FROM. Portland, who knows if and when this shit will strike every summer.

Austin seems like a great town from my brief visits, but there's a reason I've only visited in March.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:42 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


6 car wreck in lap 8.
posted by Ardiril at 5:01 PM on September 10, 2011


*Complains about the USAian focus of this thread*

*Complains about USAian focus of the 9/11 attacks*
posted by philip-random at 5:02 PM on September 10, 2011


Metafilter, love it or leave it, you lousy Yahoo!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:06 PM on September 10, 2011


Metafilter's buying Yahoo!?
posted by kmz at 5:08 PM on September 10, 2011


I live in New York City. People close to me were directly affected by the attacks on 9/11. I'll pay my respects in my own way, but I'll be avoiding the TV tommorrow. I don't like cheap snark, but I don't like fake solemnity either.
posted by jonmc at 5:10 PM on September 10, 2011 [13 favorites]


I get where TwoFewShoes is coming from, I think. It would seem more authentic if it were a grassroots, organic movement rather than a corporate/industrial/media complex thing.
posted by Punctual at 5:10 PM on September 10, 2011


ARE YOU LISTENING MARKETERS? Grassroots and organic from now on ONLY! No more corporate/industrial/media complex things—doesn't swing with the demographic any longer.
posted by carsonb at 5:14 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


Um, this is kind of backing up a bit, but as a gay guy I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone saying, "I was in a gay bar and tend to think of gay folks as mostly pretty progressive so I was surprised when some kneejerk reactionary bullshit came at me in that space."

Certainly nothing worthy of vitriol or scorn, coming from someone who lost someone on 9/11 or not.
posted by mediareport at 5:18 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]



W-werewolf terrorists?

True Blood Finale Spoiler?
posted by thivaia at 5:27 PM on September 10, 2011


Beware the moon lads, keep to the road.
posted by arcticseal at 5:45 PM on September 10, 2011


I have seen and heard wonderful memorials and witnessed conversations between people about relatives and friends who they lost. They all have been local and on a personal level and small scale. I really feel for the people who have personal mourning to go through because it's been conflated with this huge, politicized event that everyone feels ownership of just by virtue of living in the US.
posted by the young rope-rider at 5:47 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


Poet_Lariat: "as you will discover as you get older and meet a variety of people in this world, "

It would be pleasant if you would drop the condescending ageist attitude, especially since (I assume) you have no idea how old elizardbits is. Nor how old most of us are. Nor much about us at all, really. To repeat something I said to you several months ago, physical age is not an accurate measure of a person's maturity, intelligence or life experience.
posted by zarq at 6:16 PM on September 10, 2011 [11 favorites]


*puts baby in a corner*
posted by humanfont at 6:43 PM on September 10, 2011


MetaFilter: there's a reason I've only visited in March.
posted by hippybear at 6:49 PM on September 10, 2011


I thought I'd hate the coverage much more than I actually do. It's been interesting to revisit the actual day, via things like the NORAD recordings and the recountings of escapes and initial responses, and finally be able to separate the somewhat noble and honest feelings of the actual day with the awful politicized fallout and war that happened afterward. As Ira Glass said on his show today, the day itself was just the day. It was something that happened to the US. Everything else afterward, though, "we did to ourselves."
posted by Miko at 7:34 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


Ahhwoooo, Terrwolves of London!

Their terr was perfect.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:45 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


Never mind all that. It's Grandparent's Day.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:54 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


WE NEED MOAR 9/11 THREADS ON THE BLUE PEOPLE. NOT EVERYONE REMEMBERS.
posted by 1000monkeys at 8:15 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Clearly what this post needs is more discussion about the hellish weather in Texas. I mean, yes, we're used to never being able to go outside from June through September, but topping 100 for so long is unbelievable. And the lack of rain is, quite literally, killing us.

*blows uselessly at the encroaching wildfires*
posted by blurker at 8:34 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


What's worse is all the damn water mains cracking open due to ground subsidence from lack of moisture. No rain, and wasted water. The tropical storms are just teasing Texas.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:39 PM on September 10, 2011


I like September 11. It's the anniversary of the release of "Love and Theft" and YHF. My son was born in early September 2002 , and I remember the day very clearly. I also first arrived in Japan at right about this time in September 1994. Happy times for me.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:49 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


I was at a soccer game today, and everyone was provided with a little US flag to wave between the 9th and 11th minute. There was a brief "U-S-A" chant in there, but this is Seattle, so that ended pretty quick.

Earlier today, my friend sent me an e-card which said, "Happy 10th anniversary of the day when we all decided to be nice to each other for a few hours." Her cousin was a fireman who died in the towers. The rah-rah stuff does nothing for me, but every year I think about her and her cousin and I try to say something better than "I'm sorry." I haven't come up with anything yet, but I've only had 10 tries. Maybe next year.
posted by Errant at 9:14 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


The Justin Bieber glitter gifs on that last regretsy post are making me feel much better about this entire situation, tbh.
posted by elizardbits at 9:18 PM on September 10, 2011


The way I see it, Michael Hutchence already wrote Don't Change in the eighties before 9/11 even happened.
posted by Sailormom at 9:27 PM on September 10, 2011


Between the upcoming US elections, this anniversary and my all around lousy mood I've been avoiding MSM coverage like it's my job. (Forgot and turned NPR on the other day - won't make that mistake again.)

My personal reaction to the whole 9/11 thing reminds me of a memorial service I recently attended for a family friend. I didn't know the man who died, but a lot of people I care about were sad and I sobbed like a little girl when the young man eulogized his father. (I'm not made of stone, after all.)

But it just felt wrong. It's reasonable to be sad about tragic things, but this wasn't my loss and it wasn't my grief. It felt like rubbernecking and inappropriately co-opting someone else's sorrow. The concept of paying respects aside, all I wanted to do was get the hell out of there so the family could grieve in peace.

I really wish that we as a nation would do the same.
posted by Space Kitty at 9:43 PM on September 10, 2011 [6 favorites]


Trolling? Oh, heck no. I never expect anyone to reply, even when I ask a question. No expectations whatsoever. I'm just karma-whoring (also known as entertaining) like I told Matt when he first sent me an invitation back in 2001. Only here, it's called Favorites and Flags.

When you run the slogan "The Plastic.com It's Cool To Like" and then invite people with a high-profile Suck.com-tastic online presence to a community that now closely parallels with what Plastic was at that time (except for nesting, but that's insignificant), you pretty much have to allow them to maintain that standard of writing.

They flag; you edit the page. I believe this could even be automated.

[I think the 9/11 part of this thread has expired.]
posted by Ardiril at 9:47 PM on September 10, 2011


"It was bad, it was ten years ago, now let's honor the dead by moving on and restoring civil liberties." -Not Obama or anyone else tomorrow.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:47 PM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


you pretty much have to allow them to maintain that standard of writing.

Amusingly, we don't.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:49 PM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


> also known as entertaining

Nah, that's not the word.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 9:52 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Also, it was the plastic.com it's okay to like. Not the plastic.com it's cool to like. Hope this helps.
posted by Justinian at 10:12 PM on September 10, 2011


I just take a shot every time I flip the channel and see the World Trade Center collapsing.
posted by IvoShandor at 10:22 PM on September 10, 2011


This isn't really about this any more, but I guess...

One thing I've noticed this year is how many people are really disgusted and put off by the nonstop coverage of 9/11. But, as always with media coverage, we thankfully have the option not to watch, read, or listen at all.

It's amazing how freeing it can be, particularly on days like this, to switch everything off and walk away, even if only for a few hours. I can't recommend it enough. If nonstop coverage bothers you, please remember that (pace Outer Limits writers) you control the medium, the horizontal and the vertical – and you can shut it off whenever you damned well please.
posted by koeselitz at 10:30 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


And I don't mean that at all in a snide way. I really can't take it any more either. Thankfully, I know the solution.
posted by koeselitz at 10:30 PM on September 10, 2011


To repeat something I said to you several months ago, physical age is not an accurate measure of a person's maturity, intelligence or life experience.

I liked it better in the original Thoreau: "Grey hair does not confer wisdom." Alternatively, "STFU, grandma." Also, what was the point of this thread? I'm 95% against acting like any of this matters* (mainly because apparently the NFL is going to pretend to be some sort of American institution tomorrow and cry about the attacks when in reality they're a way to bleed money out of poor people, which I suppose makes them an American institution) and wish TV wouldn't go for the cheap win, but this thread stinks to high heaven like hipster horseshit. Oh you don't want to suffer through the maudlin coverage? If only TVs came with a fucking off switch. That would be handy.

Take a goddamn walk. Seems like that would solve the problem.

* I was all set to post my "I feel like I'm forgetting something" status update, but one of my childhood friends posted his torn & burned WTC badge from that day and it brought me up a little short. How's about just taking the day off and drinking too much like I plan to. Just because it's Sunday, not 'cause of the date.
posted by yerfatma at 10:40 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


Welcome to the Auto Erotic States of Asphyxiated America.
posted by Sailormom at 11:29 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


I dunno. That day, I was a CIO at an Alpharetta, GA headquarters of a U.S. subsidiary of a German furniture hardware firm, (since moved to Buford, GA) when I saw, on cnn.com, about 9:00 a.m., news of a plane hitting a skyscraper in Manhattan. Our more senior people were in Germany, Brazil and Mexico that day, and when the CNN website froze from too many hits, I went into our conference room, hooked up our largest TV/video monitor, rigged an antenna for Atlanta stations, and stood there, as slowly, for the next hour, nearly every person in our company, as their breaks allowed, came through, to see the news.

Somewhere in there, I went back into our computer room, logged into our phone switch, and took off, for that day, all the lowest-cost-routing rules that normally directed our calls.

That day, people wanted to talk to people, for reassurance, and information.

I took calls on my cell phone from our CEO, from our CFO, from our senior people in Germany, and explained to all that we were still working, but following the news, and that our phone lines were jammed. I told them that I'd kept an independent POTS line to our computer room live, around our usual phone switch, and that we could, in the worst case, still call the fire department and the police, for our jurisdiction. And I wished them well, in far away places, and suggested they all stay on the ground, until more was known.

One of the calls I got that day was from an ex-wife, whom I hadn't talked to in more than 10 years, with whom I'd toured the WTC years before, and eaten with at Windows on the World. I still don't know how she got my work number.

And so, remembering that day, to today, for anyone who wants or needs to remember that day, I'm giving another pass, and suggesting that they, too, stay on the ground, until more is known.
posted by paulsc at 12:19 AM on September 11, 2011 [3 favorites]


With regard to that "9/11 commemorative events and the media coverage of them are all part of a gubbermint conspiracy" thread on the green..

I'm not an American. I'm not in America. We've had attacks on our people, and our schools, and our embassies since 9/11, we've followed the States into some of the same wars you've fought, and we've had some constriction of our civil rights in the past ten years. But the attacks on us weren't here in Australia, they were relatively small in comparison, our role in the war on terror (and our losses in it) have been fairly small, and we haven't lost too much ground in letting ordinary people be ordinary people. So I can only imagine how frigging awful it's been for many people in the US, and try to sympathize.

But something I do not get, really cannot get, is the conspiracy theory bullshit. It's bad enough when it applies to the original attacks. In the face of overwhelming loss, and a widespread and desperate need to know and understand "who did this? and "why did it happen?" (and with some not particularly complicated answers to those questions readily available), how can anyone possibly think it reasonable or appropriate to stand up and say "Hey look at me! I got a theory!" That's just unspeakably wrong, morally repugnant, and profoundly offensive.

Worse, in the face of continuing grief, and a widespread ongoing desire to join with others who are still suffering, we get people insisting that commemorative events (and the media coverage of them) are all some kind of government conspiracy. In that, there is total denial and invalidation of the feelings of the people who have lost and are still hurting, there is fundamental rejection of the notion that sharing pain can lead to healing, there is an implicit insistence that there can be NO FUCKING HOPE that things will ever get better.

And it's all done for what? To grab a few minutes in the feeble spotlight of online attention?

That's not acceptable. It's not right. It's just bloody evil.
posted by Ahab at 12:59 AM on September 11, 2011 [3 favorites]


*Complains about USAian focus of the 9/11 attacks*

[I'm sure you know this, but just in case] I was riffing on earier posts of contentious stuff (e.g. changing babies, circumcision) hence egregious use of "USAian" and complaining the board was US-dominated. Not my real feelings.
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:31 AM on September 11, 2011


1- Making fun of anything surrounding the attacks is just not cool. The "nevar forgetz" stuff. Please knock it off. You are not helping. Snark is fine, but not for something this big and this raw. It is hurtful and unkind.

2- I understand the "please make it stop" feelings about the media events. But they have to happen. That's how a lot of people grieve and try to close up the wounds. We are a nation suffering from collective PTSD. And I mean that with complete sincerity.

3- This pretty much sums it up. Kudos to Mr. Steinberg.
posted by gjc at 4:24 AM on September 11, 2011


"We are a nation suffering from collective PTSD."

Honestly, I think were suffering from suppressed shame for our reaction to 09/11 over the last decade.
posted by klarck at 5:10 AM on September 11, 2011


I'd just driven past the Pentagon and was on Memorial Bridge when the plane hit I'm DC. The day got worse from there, more terrifying and more depressing. 9-11 wasn't some tv thing for me. In the months that followed we had anthrax and the snipers.

Please ignore gjc and continue to make any jokes you want. It's cool and amusing. I need Somme laughs today.
posted by humanfont at 5:29 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


I cannot stand all the media hype and some of the remembrances are worse. Around these parts there were a lot of friends and neighbors directly affected by the WTC attack. A lot of kids grew up without a parent. It is entirely appropriate to acknowledge that great and tragic loss. The town next over from me had fireworks last night. Not appropriate. This should not be a celebration and it is not an appropriate time to celebrate "our liberty" or whatever. Have a moment of silence, say a prayer, lay a wreath on a grave or memorial, but fireworks? That, to me, seems downright disrespectful. Save the fireworks to celebrate the 4th, or perhaps even a victory, but not for solemn occasions such as September 11 or December 7.
posted by caddis at 5:34 AM on September 11, 2011 [3 favorites]


I understand the "please make it stop" feelings about the media events. But they have to happen. That's how a lot of people grieve and try to close up the wounds.

Anyone who believes that these media events are somehow helpful to the grieving and healing process really REALLY needs to listen to that episode of Science Friday which I linked much earlier in this thread. The professionals who have actually studied this kind of thing have a lot to share with you which directly contradicts your beliefs.
posted by hippybear at 5:37 AM on September 11, 2011 [8 favorites]


Yeah, fireworks in NYC last night. WTF?

I was here. I don't need help remembering. I'm not going to snark at people who need ceremony and ritual. But fireworks?
posted by spitbull at 5:40 AM on September 11, 2011 [2 favorites]


I still haven't heard My Humps. It's not difficult to do if you don't want to.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:41 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


I have never seen a television in real life.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 5:46 AM on September 11, 2011


I've heard about television on my friend's radio. It sounded interesting.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:56 AM on September 11, 2011


Your friend has a radio?!?!?

I've only heard about it by strangers passing through town while their stagecoach stops to get a fresh team of horses.
posted by hippybear at 6:05 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


Checkmate!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:06 AM on September 11, 2011


You have a chess set?!?!?

I've only heard about it....
posted by hippybear at 6:08 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


And thus a meme is born
posted by wheelieman at 6:12 AM on September 11, 2011


Another child of 9/11! Quick, where's a reporter?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 AM on September 11, 2011


I've only heard about it by strangers passing through town while their stagecoach stops to get a fresh team of horses.

i saw one of those the other day - i'm fascinated by these strange animals you call horses, but what the hell do you call those round things on the bottom that go around and around? - those are really cool
posted by pyramid termite at 6:38 AM on September 11, 2011


I need Somme laughs today.

What do you call a German with trench foot?

A sour kraut!

Why did they install rearview mirrors on the first French tanks?

So that they could see what was going on at the front.
posted by FJT at 6:39 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


Alvy A:

I still haven't heard My Humps.

To commemorate the victims I decided to take the plunge and watch it. I actually made it through 54 seconds. My guess is that is all anybody needs, and if anything different happens in the last 2 minutes and 58 seconds of that sucker it would be an unusual event.
posted by bukvich at 6:57 AM on September 11, 2011


What hippybear said. For the past ten years, the events of 9/11 and the wars have been sanitized, edited, and fed back to us in a repeat loop. For people who are coping with 9/11 post-traumatic stress related to something they actually experienced, this creation of a single, unified national memory is more likely to create problems rather than heal them.

Much of my job involves working with people who have PTSD and the constellation of issues that grow from it. The TVs at my facility are not going to be tuned to news today.
posted by catlet at 7:16 AM on September 11, 2011 [8 favorites]


You ask for "class" and "decorum" and not using tragedy to advance political positions, and I fervently wish we could have that. But I think it's asking too much of human nature. Not many folks have innate class and a sense of decorum, and when will any political person waste a chance to score a point?
Is it disgusting? It is.
Is it probably inevitable? It is.
Like you, probably, I have to turn away from the ugly posturing and find my own responses privately and with friends.
posted by fivesavagepalms at 7:36 AM on September 11, 2011


Yes, it's gross.
posted by agregoli at 8:22 AM on September 11, 2011


In a country where Thomas Kinkade's inept, maudlin, religiously totemistic and emotionally stunted artwork continues to top the bestseller lists on everything from mugs and calendars to china figurines and velvet wall murals, your opinion and that of people like you (and I) simply does not enter into mass media's calculus of "what will we broadcast next".

The national gestalt now includes in it's deepest, most precious sanctum the image of two big buildings being hit by airplanes, and how absolutely terrible it was for everyone. It's part of America, just like Mom, apple pie, farm subsidies, Lower Prices Everyday, In God We Trust, feeling vaguely sorry (in an impersonal way) for that whole "slavery" thing, and wishing someone would just do something to help those poor people in Bhopal? Tibet? Rangoon? Where was that ... disaster thing... again?

So, yeah, I'm not opening Facebook until at least Wednesday.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:25 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


I was doing okay until I went to check my bank balance and remembered that USAA is a military thing. POW. They sure are a good bank though.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:27 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


I was doing okay until I went to check my bank balance

Story of my life.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 8:31 AM on September 11, 2011 [9 favorites]


I understand the "please make it stop" feelings about the media events. But they have to happen. That's how a lot of people grieve and try to close up the wounds make a lot of money selling schlock to people who don't have anything to grieve over.

You know what goes here.
posted by mediareport at 8:39 AM on September 11, 2011


Is it an animated sparklegif of nyancat flying over the towers?
posted by elizardbits at 8:45 AM on September 11, 2011


A lot of you guys are telling me to shut things off and leave the house.

I live in Utah. It's one of the most republican states. I'm being bombarded on all fronts. I went in to the grocery store and was hit with "Never Forget", I turned on the local news to find out how to dress my kids for school and was hit with it again. I went onto Facebook to wish a few high school friends Happy Birthday (I don't have their numbers any more) and my feed was slammed with crap from my more enthusiastic family members (I've been hiding more friends than ever).

Even when I shut everything off yesterday I came home to urgent messages from my Tea Partying, 9/12 subscribing mother who treats today like a freaking religious holiday.

My unfortunate sister has a birthday today. I was the one who woke her on her 19th birthday and told her to turn on her TV. I still haven't forgiven myself for that.


But it just felt wrong. It's reasonable to be sad about tragic things, but this wasn't my loss and it wasn't my grief. It felt like rubbernecking and inappropriately co-opting someone else's sorrow. The concept of paying respects aside, all I wanted to do was get the hell out of there so the family could grieve in peace.


Space Kitty has it completely right here. I didn't lose anybody in the attacks. All my friends who joined the military after have safely come home. My dad retired a month before his unit was called up.

I still get nervous when I see a plane coming in low over my city. For at least the first five years I could get a full blown panic attack.

The images of September 11, 2001 are seared into my brain even 10 years later. I have avoided every image I can for the last ten years. I will never, ever forget.

I feel like this is sad event turning into celebratory propaganda and it turns my stomach.
posted by TooFewShoes at 8:48 AM on September 11, 2011 [3 favorites]


You know what goes here.

Maybe an admission that you don't know what's going on in everyone's mind today and what they need and how they feel, and that disliking the media's coverage of the event doesn't mean that no one has any reason to grieve or remember however they see fit today.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 8:49 AM on September 11, 2011 [7 favorites]


I feel like this is sad event turning into celebratory propaganda and it turns my stomach.

It's the relentless commercialization of it all that's especially fucking revolting. It feels like buying shot glasses and a snowglobe at Auschwitz.
posted by elizardbits at 8:50 AM on September 11, 2011 [6 favorites]


The Costs of War:
This hemorrhaging of money has collateral effects on the US economy. All that government borrowing makes it harder for consumers to borrow money, pushing payments on the average American's mortgage up by $600 a year, for example. The wars have also driven up the price of oil, thus magnifying the recession, and they have siphoned off over $3 trillion that could have been invested in the renewal of US infrastructure. Or in jobs: $1 million spent on the military creates 8.3 jobs, whereas $1 million spent on education creates 15.5 jobs and $1 million spent on health care creates 14.3 jobs. If we estimate that the Pentagon spent $130 billion a year directly on the wars, that money, if spent at home instead, would have created 900,000 US jobs in education or 780,000 US jobs in health care.

And then there are the dead, the injured, and the displaced. So as to avoid charges of sensationalism, the Costs of War project deliberately uses conservative numbers where estimates differ, but even the conservative numbers are horrifying. While some studies put the numbers of Iraqi dead higher than one million, the Costs of War project goes with the lower number of 225,000 individual Afghans and Iraqis who are known to have lost their lives; 137,000 of these were civilians. Almost eight million Iraqis and Afghans -- a number as large as the combined populations of Connecticut and Kentucky -- are thought to be displaced. At 6,000, the number of American troops killed is much smaller, but it is still more than twice the number lost in the terrorist attacks that so traumatized the country a decade ago. And each dead soldier leaves behind a hole in someone's heart.

If the newspapers periodically remind us of these slain American soldiers by showing us the "faces of the fallen," the injured are less visible, but the cost of caring for them will only increase. Nearly 100,000 American soldiers have been officially wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan, but many injuries, such as post-traumatic-stress disorder, may not manifest until after deployment. More than 522,000 veterans of our Middle Eastern wars have now filed disability claims. Based on prior experience in World War II, Korea, and Vietnam, we know that the health care costs of such veterans do not peak until 30 to 40 years after the wars are over. In other words, we could pull every last soldier out of Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow, but the costs of caring for them will keep climbing until at least 2040. These costs are expected to total between $600 billion and $1 trillion.

Of course, some of these veterans will pay the costs of war in other ways: The military suicide rate is twice the civilian suicide rate, and veterans are 75 percent more likely than civilians to die in car crashes. An ongoing US government survey has found that over a quarter of veterans of the Iraq war are abusing alcohol, and the rate of abuse of prescription drugs by military veterans is now six times greater than it was in 2002.

Meanwhile, two million American children have lived in recent years with the stress of a parent deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. Some have seen parents return from war with amputated limbs, brain injuries, and post-traumatic-stress disorder. These children, disproportionately from minority communities, are more likely than their civilian counterparts to have problems at school, to suffer from depression, and to exhibit behavioral disorders. They represent another kind of interest on our investment in war -- one that we will be paying back for a long time. As we pare back social services as part of federal budget cuts, many of these children and their families will struggle with their problems on their own -- an intolerable externalization of the costs of war for a society that claims to be committed to family values.
Ten years ago we went insane, and it cost us so much.
posted by codacorolla at 8:50 AM on September 11, 2011


Also: The absolute fucking nerve of this man.
posted by codacorolla at 8:54 AM on September 11, 2011 [2 favorites]


I understand the "please make it stop" feelings about the media events. But they have to happen. That's how a lot of people grieve and try to close up the wounds make a lot of money selling schlock to people who don't have anything to grieve over.

You know what goes here.
posted by mediareport at 8:39 AM on September 11 [+] [!]


I just went and looked at the TV guide for today. The major networks have one to two hours of 9/11 programming on the schedule, mostly this morning. Not exactly primetime, nor is it an inappropriate amount.

Are Fox, CNN and MSNBC going wall-to-wall? I would imagine so. But they do that for everything, that's what they do. They are 24 hour news programs, and the various memorials and ceremonies are news whether we like it or not.

(Also, FTFY is generally frowned upon here. Or it used to be.)
posted by gjc at 8:57 AM on September 11, 2011


Or it used to be.

It's deleteworthy in AskMe, a little less so in MeFi and not deleteworthy here though it's still rarely the best way to make your point.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:21 AM on September 11, 2011


I had dinner last night with a 9/11 widow, her two kids now aged 17 and 20, 15 friends from high school and the parents of the deceased. She has worked hard to raise her two boys alone and has done a terrific job.

It was more of a celebratory dinner, remembering stories from high school and college about her husband and catching up with long time friends. At one point in the evening, I was able to ask her really her thoughts on today's events and all the hoopla. On the first anniversary, she went to the official ground zero event and spoke at the remembrance. She has not been back since. She said it was just too hard for her. Her in-laws, his parents, still go every year. Her two boys have asked to go and read names the last two years and they have done so. Last year, one son, now a college senior, joined the marine ROTC. Today when he reads his ten names at ground zero he will include his serving the country in honor of his father's memory. If you know the boy, joining the marines is quite a change from what you would expect.

She will be spending the day locally and will be attending a memorial for the 7 families in her church that lost loved ones that day.

I guess my point is that we all decide ourselves how to remember different events. For some a public display with lots of media coverage helps. Stirring up the patriotism to justify and bring closure may help. Some want to remember spiritually. Others try to remember the good times in a sort of celebratory way. Whatever. I see the media coverage as not surprising but a little excessive. I treat it just like here at MetaFilter. I sort of flag it in my mind and move on. I lost three dear friends in the towers and was working two blocks away. I choose to follow the lead of their families. As I said, I attended a group dinner last night for a HS friend, and called the other two widows yesterday to say I was thinking about them and their husbands, my friends.

.
.
.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:22 AM on September 11, 2011 [10 favorites]


There's an implication in these threads that others have no right to feel anything about 9/11 if they were not in NYC that day. I imagine there are kooks out there, but people have gone so far as to suggest that it is vampiric to feel anything today if you are not from NY. Of course anyone who personally witnessed the attacks or lost people that day has a right to be angry and tired of the coverage (and whatever atrocious thing is going on with marketing of 9/11 items). But the very people who are saying they don't want to be told how to feel today are telling other people they have no right to have any feelings regarding 9/11. There's something very frustrating about that.

selling schlock to people who don't have anything to grieve over.

I don't know. I'm not really religious and I prayed for NY that day. Also DC. People I know in Chicago went to help dig out that ruble for months. I have feelings about what happened that day and I don't appreciate being told how I am supposed to feel.
posted by marimeko at 9:33 AM on September 11, 2011 [5 favorites]


"Laps Of Silence" during laps 9 through 11
between the 9th and 11th minute

I think this is stupid and undignified. Moment of silence, sure. But not between the ninth and eleventh of things -- why not just a moment at the beginning? People are weird.
posted by theredpen at 9:45 AM on September 11, 2011


> But not between the ninth and eleventh of things -- why not just a moment at the beginning?

Some marketing manager's focus group liked the idea. <- just my wild ass guess.
posted by bukvich at 9:49 AM on September 11, 2011


For everyone feeling overwhelmed by the 9/11 stuff today, I want to share this as a possible bit of help. It's nice to have a good news story today.
posted by never used baby shoes at 9:51 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


Msnbc is replaying their original coverage from the day in its entirety, commercial-free. It's pretty amazing and emotionally real. So much misinformation, suppressed surprise and horror, Couric and Lauer panicking live and jabbering while Tom Brokaw makes incredibly calm and succint pronouncements about the future.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:04 AM on September 11, 2011


I "like" the replayed coverage for the simple reason that it is unvarnished. I have a video tape of CNN's coverage that I have watched a couple of times. It really brings back the terror and horror, makes me nauseous, and when its done I feel a little better.
posted by gjc at 10:18 AM on September 11, 2011


Also: The absolute fucking nerve of this man.

Sorry - can you explain why Bush using that quote is so reprehensible? Because he's trying to channel Lincoln, or is there some other context I'm not aware of?
posted by Think_Long at 10:55 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


> It really brings back the terror and horror, makes me nauseous, and when its done I feel a little better.

Some would call that a fetish.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 10:55 AM on September 11, 2011


Some would call that a fetish.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 10:55 AM on September 11 [+] [!]


Eponysterical.
posted by Think_Long at 10:57 AM on September 11, 2011


EPONYsterical.

HAH. We need to laugh people!
posted by Think_Long at 10:58 AM on September 11, 2011


I guess my point is that we all decide ourselves how to remember different events.

No, no, didn't you read further up? There's a podcast someone listened to that says we shouldn't behave how we feel.

NUFF CED
posted by yerfatma at 11:00 AM on September 11, 2011


Ira Flatow: This weekend, people are going to be reliving the 9/11 attack all over again. Dr. Silver, for people who have lived through it, experienced it, or have watched the videos over and over and over again in the last ten years... Is this weekend, and seeing all the stuff that is going to be on the media, the act of reliving the event and the feelings associated with it, is it going to help people cope, or is it going to make it worse for some people?

Roxane Cohen Silver: I think that we can respectfully commemorate the day of ten years ago and the thousands of lives that were lost... we can appreciate the heroism of many people in the aftermath of 9/11, and I think we can do all of that respectfully this weekend. I think that we can do that without reliving, without reactivating the feelings, if we are not continuously exposed to the graphic images of that day. So I think that we can have a commemoration and we can have a respectful memorial and we don't need to see the pictures again.

Ira Flatow: Are you suggesting we not look at them?

Roxane Cohen Silver: I'm a researcher, and in my research I would say that we see no psychological benefits from watching the graphic images. I personally will not be watching them.

(Dr. Silver oversaw the American Psychological Association's American Psychologist journal's special issue 9/11: Ten Years Later.
posted by hippybear at 11:13 AM on September 11, 2011 [4 favorites]


If there's one thing I wish we'd remember about 9/11, it's the feeling of unity that followed. For days afterward, people were polite, and respectful of one another. There were no red states or blue states, it was just United States. I wish we could get back to that way of thinking without having to endure another similar tragedy.

I also wouldn't mind the silence of life without aircraft.
posted by crunchland at 11:16 AM on September 11, 2011 [4 favorites]


but is Amurica. I want to hear more about poet_lariats sexual orienatation and 9/11, it is impotant
posted by clavdivs at 11:16 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


> or days afterward, people were polite, and respectful of one another.

I hear ya, but those things that were divisive were merely stunned into latency. I'll take debate and difference over tragic unification most any day.

I did like the quiet skies, though.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 11:21 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


There's an implication in these threads that others have no right to feel anything about 9/11 if they were not in NYC that day.

For the record, though, the flip side of that is New Yorkers being told by NON-New Yorkers how to rebuild their own city. This same kind of "I'm feeling the right way about this and you're feeling the wrong way" is going both ways. (Also for the record -- I'm not pointing specific fingers in this or any thread; just noting something I have seen happen over the past ten years.)

If any New Yorker is looking for an interesting thing to listen to, incidentally -- NPR's FM station is playing a 4-hour playlist of"music for the day" that people wrote in to suggest; there's been everything from Woody Guthrie to Sigur Rios to Paul Simon to Nirvana. You can listen to it as a "commemorative thing", but it's also fairly easy to get away with "this is just some funky music". (And they already played Adagio for Strings and Hallelujiah, so you're safe.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:29 AM on September 11, 2011 [2 favorites]


I thought bush's speech was unusually classy.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:43 AM on September 11, 2011 [2 favorites]


I went to a candle light vigil on the Lincoln memorial in the days after 9-11. It was very quiet and then some woman insisted that everyone sing the national anthem. Her shrill voice was screeching out how we needed to show how Amerxan we were. I regret not getting yelling back at her to shutup and let us greive. Instead we all went along with her flag waving hurrah bullishit. The whole we all came togetherness prety much ended right there. A few minute later Marine One landed at the other then of the reflecting pool for a photo-op.
posted by humanfont at 11:54 AM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


The Citarella in the w.70s has a giant 9-11 commemorative American flag made of seafood in the window: shrimp and squid for the stripes, and baby octopi for the stars.

God bless America!
posted by yarly at 11:59 AM on September 11, 2011

There's an implication in these threads that others have no right to feel anything about 9/11 if they were not in NYC that day.
I guess I think of this not as an issue about what I feel, but an issue about what I say. I wouldn't post anything about it on Facebook, because I'm really aware that I have lots of Facebook friends who were directly affected in a way that I wasn't. I feel how I feel, but I'm conscious that talking about my feelings might seem a little insensitive to people whose feelings about this are more intense and visceral than mine are.
posted by craichead at 12:00 PM on September 11, 2011 [2 favorites]


I guess I think of this not as an issue about what I feel, but an issue about what I say. I wouldn't post anything about it on Facebook, because I'm really aware that I have lots of Facebook friends who were directly affected in a way that I wasn't. I feel how I feel, but I'm conscious that talking about my feelings might seem a little insensitive to people whose feelings about this are more intense and visceral than mine are.
posted by craichead at 2:00 PM on September 11 [+] [!]

Same here. I completely agree with you. It was a sweeping insinuation that the U.S. is just a bunch of 'grief vampires' that has complicated this week for me (here at Metafilter). It's okay. People are touchy right now. I get that.
posted by marimeko at 12:34 PM on September 11, 2011


Potomac Avenue: "I thought bush's speech was unusually classy."

It was definitely well written. Using the Bixby letter was a calculated but somewhat oddly out-of-place choice, though. The people who were murdered on 9/11 did not die trying to save the Republic.
posted by zarq at 1:07 PM on September 11, 2011


yarly: "The Citarella in the w.70s has a giant 9-11 commemorative American flag made of seafood in the window: shrimp and squid for the stripes, and baby octopi for the stars."

Because nothing says, "America the Beautiful" like artfully arranged animal carcasses.
posted by zarq at 1:08 PM on September 11, 2011 [7 favorites]


Also: The absolute fucking nerve of this man.

Yeah, pretty appalling. Memo to selves: It is not appropriate to have war criminals speak at war crime sites.
posted by threeants at 1:22 PM on September 11, 2011


Hooters Remembers
posted by atomicmedia at 1:27 PM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


I understand that some people need to grieve/remember/find closure in different ways.

Personally, I'm doing what I can to avoid all of the remembrance "events" in the media, including scrolling past anything my friends are posting on FB or LJ. I'm not ready to talk about it, and maybe I never will be, but it's not my place to tell other people how to observe their own memorial of this tragedy.

Wow, I'm *really* not ready. *wipes eyes*
posted by blurker at 1:35 PM on September 11, 2011




Blurker-I'm right there with you. Pass the tissues, please.
posted by miss-lapin at 1:41 PM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


Because nothing says, "America the Beautiful" like artfully arranged animal carcasses.

You gonna eat that?
posted by Horselover Phattie at 1:56 PM on September 11, 2011


And all this time I'd taken the "lover" part to be more carnal than comestible.
posted by hippybear at 1:59 PM on September 11, 2011


My name ain't Phillip, for sure.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 2:04 PM on September 11, 2011


Reporting from the future, I can confirm that the coverage doesn't go away on September 12. Best thing to do is walk away from the media, preferably in a park or along a beach.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:36 PM on September 11, 2011


Krugman - The Years of Shame, captures how I fee about the subject.
posted by octothorpe at 3:39 PM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


Just want to apologize for the stupid formulation of my response to the "We are a nation suffering from collective PTSD" thing. I should have known better than to disagree in that kind of snarky way, and probably should have included MeFi in my (thankfully fairly effective) non-9/11 fast this week. Anyway, sorry for being dickish there.
posted by mediareport at 4:05 PM on September 11, 2011 [3 favorites]


Speaking of shame: Bill Keller is another one who can go fuck himself. He's one of the ones responsible for the Iraq war.

(hmmmm, that's two for me in just about as many days. I had better get a grip here.....)
posted by caddis at 4:11 PM on September 11, 2011






Another thing for the "it's happening now and it's actually not that bad watching it" filter -- VH1 is rerunning the "Concert For New York" fundraiser/tribute thing that they had in October 2001. Yeah, there's the occasional sentimental thing, but the people on the floor were all firemen, policemen and first responders, and it's kind of adorable watching cops all dressed up in their dress blues trying to all do air guitar to "Baba O'Reilly".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:34 PM on September 11, 2011


Horselover Phattie: " You gonna eat that?"

I've never been more pleased about having a shellfish allergy.
posted by zarq at 6:53 PM on September 11, 2011 [2 favorites]


LOL AMERICA

A nation that does not know what to do.

Hint: listen to Creed and tell anyone within your field of vision that you love them lots, and buy tinned vegetables or ammunition.
posted by fire&wings at 7:06 PM on September 11, 2011


it's a little early, but i must go to bed soon - and i would like to commend the community for its admirable restraint in not giving us a crapload of 9/11 fpps
posted by pyramid termite at 7:12 PM on September 11, 2011 [3 favorites]


I actually felt kind of lost and disappointed in the time immediately following 9/11. FWIW, I'm a 3rd culture kid and have survived minor terrorist attacks and shootings, etc. So, sure, I wasn't totally mortified or anything when the planes struck. (Kinda been there before but on trains and busses.) What I was NOT prepared for was the reactions of my friends and neighbors.

Anarchist punker friends who refused to vote because they hated society and politics lined up to join the Marines. Simple family guys went out and got giant red, white and blue "9/11 Never Forget" tats across their backs. It was like the fight everyone was waiting for, or the excuse focus on something else because their lives sucked or something.

I waited for a long time for public service messages to come out about situational awareness and suspicious activity, common sense things that would not only be of good use, but would also put people at ease and feeling more in control. Those messages never came.
posted by snsranch at 7:30 PM on September 11, 2011 [4 favorites]


Adorable?
posted by gjc at 7:51 PM on September 11, 2011


So... People have posted a number of interesting 9/11 links here, talked about their personal feelings, brought up some memories, shared some anecdotes, pointed out some funny things, and barked at each other a bit.

Basically, this is the 9/11 thread that didn't happen in the Blue? I think a thoughtful post on the front page would have been good... easy to skip, yet a place for people to link to interesting aspects of what is definitely a phenomenon on many levels. But would it have been cluttered with groaning about a 9/11 post, even though it's obvious that people really do have a lot they want to say about it?

I ask, because I was speaking with another mefite yesterday who is interested in certain psychological aspects of the anniversary and who would have certainly contributed some interesting links/commentary in such a post... but the backlash here against the nationalistic and commercial exploitation seems to have turned into an overarching rejection of anything 9-11 related... to the degree that it appears people can only talk about 9/11 in a post about not talking about 9/11?
posted by taz at 12:05 AM on September 12, 2011 [3 favorites]


It was a huge event. Don't call out people for mourning.

I pretty much went about my day yesterday, but they showed the 9/11 memorial late at night and I cried.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:17 AM on September 12, 2011


I saw a Ben 10: Ultimate Alien episode that addressed Guantanamo Bay. Apparently keeping alien prisoners in Area 51 without trial is a violation of intergalactic law, and will make a vaguely South American alien chameleon attack you because his family died while he was incarcerated.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:20 AM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


I reread Jean Baudrillard's "The Spirit of Terrorism" and I think he was more right than I thought at first.
posted by fuq at 4:46 AM on September 12, 2011


Also, my friend pointed out that 9/11 is/will be offensive, in that fundamentally it is insured that someone will be offended on 9/11 no matter what. The terrorists succeeded in creating a holiday that by design gets people upset at their neighbors over immaterial reactions and honest comments.
posted by fuq at 4:52 AM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


I waited for a long time for public service messages to come out about situational awareness and suspicious activity, common sense things that would not only be of good use, but would also put people at ease and feeling more in control.

I feel like I have had those messages and that they've been helpful. I can't take an MBTA ride without hearing "If you see something, say something," and since The Events the kind of awareness you mention has become part of training in the kind of work I do. We are now trained to react differently to unclaimed backpacks and the like.

Not that I think it's all be handled as well as it should - I would have liked a lot more grownup leadership and messaging than what we got.

In thinking about preparedness, I remembered this: an email forward which wasa parody of the Ready.gov terrorism preparedness visual guide. This came out within a month of the attacks. I took it to a party in early October and passed it around, and we all laughed literally until we cried. The kind of laughter from tension and disbelief that you have sometimes at funerals or after shocking events. That was such a weird time.

But overall, I think people on the whole are much better prepared for shit to happen than we ever were before. There's still probably a long way to go, though. One thing I think is obvious is that people don't know how to act in emergencies, when bad things are in the midst of going down. We could use some more practice on that kind of thing.

At the same time, I remember when all these recommendations were coming out in the weeks after 9/11, about having an emergency kit and an emergency plan and yadda yadda yadda. What was abundantly clear to me because of 9/11 is that that kind of shit, while a good idea to have, is a pretty false little psychological band-aid against the kinds of acts terrorists commit. There is nothing in a disaster kit, short of a teleporter, that anyone at the top of the WTC would have found helpful that day. I guess it could prove helpful for the rest of us who weren't in the direct line of action, but what I realized is that prevention is a far better use of our time than preparation, because even for the prepared, if you're in the target area, you're fucked. If you're not in the target area, your disaster kit may be useful, but if you can't get systems running within a few days, you're still fucked.

All the more reason why "if you see something, say something" is a good mantra. I have much less willingness to watch weird shit go down in public places without asking about than I did before 9/11. I no longer feel any shame in asking "What's going on?" "Whose is that?" "Who's in charge of this?"
posted by Miko at 6:38 AM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


Krugman - The Years of Shame, captures how I fee about the subject.

Paul Krugman 9/11 Blog Post Stokes Controversy
"Paul Krugman drew conservative outrage on Sunday when he wrote that the anniversary of 9/11 had become a marker of 'shame' for the U.S."
posted by ericb at 10:25 AM on September 12, 2011


Adorable?
posted by gjc


Assuming this was in my response to a comment about "adorable" cops in dress blues. If so -- yeah, I've always had a soft spot for seeing people get visibly enthusiastic about something. The "I'm trying to be a mature grownup" facade we all have falls away and they're a little eight-year-old who's just seen the Coolest! Thing! Ever!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:19 AM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


We refuse to live in fear!
posted by homunculus at 11:22 AM on September 12, 2011


Unless fear is two story mansion wired for a T1 line, with an indoor/outdoor pool and heated dungeon.

Then we'll live in fear just fine, thankyouverymuch.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:26 AM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


The fact that Krugman disabled comments on his blog post says it all. He knew what he wrote would infuriate a lot of people. And deliberately infuriating people on such a touchy day for a lot of people is trolling.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:49 AM on September 12, 2011


Actually, speaking as one of the "touchier" people, I agreed with Krugman 100%. I didn't feel trolled, what I felt was more like "FINALLY someone said it."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:52 AM on September 12, 2011


I didn't feel trolled, what I felt was more like "FINALLY someone said it."

Sorry, but Krugman said almost nothing new. The critique that Bush & co. unnecessarily politicized 9/11 started in 2002.

The only thing new that Krugman said was that "the memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned." That's a pretty horrible thing to say on a day when lots of people are memorializing loved ones killed in the attacks.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:59 AM on September 12, 2011


And deliberately infuriating people on such a touchy day for a lot of people is trolling.

I have no opinion about Krugman's post, but in this sentence I think you've let your anger get the better of you. Knowing that doing something will infuriate people, and doing it anyway — that's not trolling. Trolling is doing it in order to infuriate people.
posted by stebulus at 12:41 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


stebulus: I think you presume too much in diagnosing me as "angry."

We can quibble about whether Krugman was "trolling" but according to your definition, that ultimately that depends on his mental state. I'd submit that when Krugman decided to disable comments on the blog item before posting, he knew he was starting a shitstorm. Maybe that's not trolling per se, but given the context, I think it's lousy.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:55 PM on September 12, 2011


I think Krugman is just saying what millions upon millions of Americans are thinking about 9/11. That the things done in the name of that attack are utterly shameful and continue to go on at an unabated pace. The media giz-fest over 9/11 just serves to remind many of us of not only the tragic events of that day but also of the tragedy that has ensued over the next decade. I know that's what I've been thinking all week and I don't think it's lousy to say it because people died that day and it certainly doesn't make their deaths any less tragic. We continue to take nothing away from 9/11 as a society except "bad men blew up buildings" and we reinforce that every single anniversary. Someone should say what many of us are thinking on that exploited anniversary, I think. So Krugman did, big deal.
posted by IvoShandor at 1:03 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]




The only thing new that Krugman said was that "the memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned." That's a pretty horrible thing to say on a day when lots of people are memorializing loved ones killed in the attacks.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of those same people ALSO think that the memory of the day has been poisoned by the things Krugman's talking about.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:12 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


BobbyVan: " Maybe that's not trolling per se, but given the context, I think it's lousy."

It's not lousy. It needs to be said. I don't believe his timing was fantastic, but I can't fault him for saying what he believes in.

It needs to be said because we had a Republican administration who launched two ill-conceived wars -- one under false pretenses. Who used false terror alerts during a run-up to a Presidential election, that kept my city and others in fear that we would be attacked again. It needs to be said because fears Americans have of being killed in a terrorist attack are overblown, inflated by politicians and the media in an endless stream of fearmongering bullshit that allowed them to cash in on the tragedy and secure power for themselves.

That shouldn't be given a pass for sentimental reasons.
posted by zarq at 1:31 PM on September 12, 2011


you presume too much in diagnosing me as "angry."

You're right. I'll retract that, if you'll allow.

he knew he was starting a shitstorm. Maybe that's not trolling per se, but given the context, I think it's lousy.

Ok. But it's an important difference. It's one thing to think, as a troll does, "Yuk yuk, I think I'll push people's buttons for my own amusement." That's entering the discourse in bad faith. It's another thing to think, for example, "I know this is going to piss a lot of people off, but it's too important to let that stop me from saying it." Such a decision might well be misguided, and deserve harsh criticism, but it is in good faith.

(As you point out, I don't know what Krugman was thinking. I just think good faith should be assumed, and I don't see anything in his post to contradict that assumption.)
posted by stebulus at 1:42 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


I feel pretty much the same as Krugman, but I took a little more of a pussyfooted approach to the issue.
posted by bukvich at 1:44 PM on September 12, 2011


>> I waited for a long time for public service messages to come out about situational awareness and suspicious activity, common sense things that would not only be of good use, but would also put people at ease and feeling more in control.

> I feel like I have had those messages and that they've been helpful. I can't take an MBTA ride without hearing "If you see something, say something" ...


That's funny, those announcements really rub me the wrong way. Here's the complete text (caps from the Facebook group I copied this from):

"Now more than ever we need you to be AWARE, ALERT, and report ANY suspicious activity to an MBTA transit official or MBTA transit police officer. We are asking you to support our SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING Campaign. We need YOUR EYES, YOUR EARS, and YOUR INFORMATION to protect us all, so if you SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING. Call the MBTA transit police department at 617-222-1212 and thank you for riding the T."

Isn't a little weird to be told every five minutes, every time you ride the T, that your risk of terrorist attack has ratcheted up another notch? Kind of a scary and self-serving delusion for the MBTA police chief to promote ...
posted by Honorable John at 1:46 PM on September 12, 2011


Yea, that MBTA stuff sounds pretty OTT. I only brought up this bit about disseminating info because as a military brat abroad I had TONS of training about terrorism and other threats. Very detailed stuff that is very useful in daily life. Even for me as a kid it was very reassuring to know that I had some control of my surroundings because there were very specific things to look for and be aware of. It made a world of difference for me and kept me from going nuts with fear.
posted by snsranch at 4:05 PM on September 12, 2011


I think the MBTA stuff is fine, but maybe a little less often would be OK too. Honestly, we did need it; we were pretty freaking complacent before 9/11.

A lot of it is security theater, modern-day duck-and-cover, and the idea that you can protect yourself from everything through vigilance is clearly false. However, it makes sense to manage risk by eliminating all the risk factors you can, and squirrely behavior or loose belongings in a public place is a risk factor. I really don't have a problem with this stuff, kind of like I didn't have much of a problem with fire drills in school.
posted by Miko at 9:01 PM on September 12, 2011


Coming back around to the original topic, actually: Jon Stewart had a few things to say about this issue.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:37 AM on September 13, 2011


"Paul Krugman drew conservative outrage on Sunday when he wrote that the anniversary of 9/11 had become a marker of 'shame' for the U.S."

Ritual defamation Part XXIV: liberals join the hissy
posted by homunculus at 12:27 PM on September 14, 2011


Kathleen Parker says pretty much the same thing and Krugman. Curious if she's the subject of ginned up outrage too.
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:35 PM on September 14, 2011


*as* Krugman. Why do those typos always pop right out as soon as I hit post?
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:36 PM on September 14, 2011


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