The Oxford Handbook of Eye Movements October 5, 2011 9:47 AM   Subscribe

So the Amanda Knox thread has been pretty successfully trolled in the exact same way twice now, the first time apparently by a user operating under a secondary account. So, hey, are nerkul and fraac the same people? and could they knock it off?
posted by Artw to Etiquette/Policy at 9:47 AM (106 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

It's pretty over-the-top stuff: accusations that anyone questioning the merits of the case must have a crush on Knox, claims of being super-sensitive to the state of others, claims of moral superiority all the while presuming to be a voice of reason in the maddening crowd. I don't know if it's trolling, but it's certainly stupid.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 9:50 AM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


I've been trolled so hard. >(
posted by thirteenkiller at 9:51 AM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


I resemble that remark. The trolling that crosses the line, as far as I'm aware of the line, is by Horselover Phattie. It's flat out pointless abuse. The rest is just messy, but improving a bit in the last few minutes.
posted by fraac at 9:51 AM on October 5, 2011


Watch it, there, bub. When I called nerkul a troll I got my comments deleted!
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:52 AM on October 5, 2011


I think you aren't meant to call people trolls in discussion threads. Just this feeling I'm getting. If you believe someone is trolling, flag and ignore them.
posted by fraac at 9:54 AM on October 5, 2011


If there were a Turing test variant where trolls have to pass as merely stupid I would say he fails it for me pretty heavily. It's repeatedly dredging up the same points to get them shot down, then drags them up again without modification that swings it: He's trying to get a rise out of people.
posted by Artw at 9:55 AM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]


I'm holding out hope that the thread continues as is and spawns a spin-off CBS crime show called THE OBSERVERIST in which an amateur detective, perhaps played by James van der Beek, solves crimes using nothing but Google Images.
posted by nathancaswell at 9:55 AM on October 5, 2011 [16 favorites]


One nutty poster is nutty. I'm not sure this merits a metatalk thread!
posted by craichead at 9:55 AM on October 5, 2011


Artw: "So, hey, are nerkul and fraac the same people? and could they knock it off? "

That's a bannable offense, so you're making a serious accusation. Do you have evidence to back it up?
posted by zarq at 9:57 AM on October 5, 2011


This is one of those situations that we were hoping would resolve itself without us having to jump in and basically tell people to knock it off.

fraac, we'd given you some time off after telling you that your behavior here was a problem. We're not really seeing those problems going away. At this point you have to very specifically make sure your behavior is not appearing trollish, otherwise we will treat you as if you are a troll. The choice is 100% yours.

And, for the record, signing up a second account to argue with people when your first account has been time outed for bad behavior is something we've never specifically said was against the rules but are now specifically saying that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:58 AM on October 5, 2011 [43 favorites]


you're making a serious accusation. Do you have evidence to back it up?

It's not an accusation, it's a question. Hence the, y'know, question mark. I wasn't aware that questions required hard evidence.
posted by dersins at 9:59 AM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


What jessamyn said.

fraac, you seem to want something out of Metafilter other than to figure out the site culture and actually make a go of being a good faith contributor here. Maybe there's some huge culture shock problem here for you, I don't know, but I haven't seen any effort from you even as we've tried to give you a heads-up on this stuff and work with you on it, and we need to not have you keep pulling this schtick. You need to either turn this around pronto, throttle back the overacting on the site and just chill while you get a better sense of this place, or this is going to end quickly with a permanent ban.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:59 AM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


That's a bannable offense, so you're making a serious accusation. Do you have evidence to back it up?

cortex's previous mod comment in that thread strongly implied that they were. If cortex meant something else, then it is better to ask and clear this up for everyone.
posted by grouse at 9:59 AM on October 5, 2011


This thread is reminding me to get back to work. So, thank you.
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:00 AM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]


dersins: "It's not an accusation, it's a question. "

"So how long have you been beating your wife?" is also a question.

Doesn't matter. Jessamyn answered Art's.
posted by zarq at 10:00 AM on October 5, 2011


Yeah, could be a leading question. On the other hand: Come on, seriously, look at his EYES.
posted by Artw at 10:02 AM on October 5, 2011 [13 favorites]


Points taken. I'll be more like Horselover Phattie, do things the right way.
posted by fraac at 10:02 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


You couldn't carry my water!
posted by Horselover Phattie at 10:03 AM on October 5, 2011 [7 favorites]


If the two of you start any shit at this point I swear to Jehu I will find a way to make the hellban feature start working.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:04 AM on October 5, 2011 [67 favorites]


(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates: “Watch it, there, bub. When I called nerkul a troll I got my comments deleted!”

I've done that, too – on multiple occasions – but I kind of figured out that it's probably not a good idea to do it in-thread. Anyway, it just pushes the conversation toward focusing the trolling more, I think.
posted by koeselitz at 10:04 AM on October 5, 2011


And yes, there's no great way to deal with an ambiguous "are they or aren't they" public question about multiple-account hijinks but in this case it was kind of inescapably obvious from the continuity of commentary across the two accounts and the note I left in the original thread. As a question it's better for a note to the contact form than public speculation, but here we are.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:04 AM on October 5, 2011


Points taken. I'll be more like Horselover Phattie, do things the right way.

This does not seem like a good response.
posted by OmieWise at 10:05 AM on October 5, 2011


You couldn't carry my water!

He could if he were a Fremen. And how would we know? THE EYES.
posted by nathancaswell at 10:06 AM on October 5, 2011 [17 favorites]


Why, is there something wrong with the way Horselover conducts himself in threads? Because there is no official comment on that.
posted by fraac at 10:06 AM on October 5, 2011


I don't think that continuing to favorite one's own comments is a good-faith way of participating here.
posted by grouse at 10:07 AM on October 5, 2011 [5 favorites]


Wait, wait, so fraac got put into timeout and then created nerkul to get around the ban. That's hilarious. I guess fraac know how to avoid being silenced all his life.
posted by nooneyouknow at 10:07 AM on October 5, 2011


I don't think that continuing to favorite one's own comments is a good-faith way of participating here.

THIS.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:07 AM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]


Grouse: I only do that when I make excellent points. Check it.
posted by fraac at 10:08 AM on October 5, 2011 [7 favorites]


I remember the first time it occurred to me to see if I could favorite my own comment... I was like, "it couldn't be possible... could it? OH MY GOD IT IS!" and then I briefly entertained favoriting all of my comments, but ultimately decided that someone would call me on it and it would be a bad scene.
posted by nathancaswell at 10:09 AM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]


I'm pretty sure that the mods have said that people can favorite any comments, including their own. It's a little weird, but people are strange sometimes. I would say that self-favoriting only indicates a 33.312% chance that one is a psychopath.
posted by craichead at 10:09 AM on October 5, 2011 [19 favorites]


Horselover Phattie: “... a voice of reason in the maddening crowd...”

Incidentally, this is an interesting phrase. Thomas Hardy's book was titled Far From The Madding Crowd, in reference to an old poem (hence the archaic "madding"). However, as Washington State University points out, I can't really correct you on misuse, since it's kind of a Catch-22:

“The only reason to refer to ‘madding crowds’ is to show how sophisticated you are, but if you update the spelling to ‘maddening’ it will have the opposite effect: you’ll look ignorant.”

So, er, there you are.
posted by koeselitz at 10:12 AM on October 5, 2011 [8 favorites]


> So, er, there you are.

Note: I make no claims of not being dumb.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 10:15 AM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]


Could one of you two losers please flame out before you get banned? We've been short on flameouts lately.
posted by GuyZero at 10:16 AM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


jessamyn: "If the two of you start any shit at this point I swear to Jehu I will find a way to make the hellban feature start working."

jessamyn: Mr. B, Give Me The Hellban.
pb: No! Not the hellban! The poor server can nae take a hellban, Cap'n!
jessamyn: I need that hellban NOW, mister!
pb: Ye can nae break the laws of physics, Ma'am!
jessamyn: We're in a crisis! Trolls are attacking! Give me that hellban now!
pb: But ye'll destroy the energy matrix an' violate the integrity of the-!
fraac: From hell's heart, I spit at thee, Horeslover Phattie....
jessamyn: FRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC!!!!!!!!!!!



Sorry, sorry.
posted by zarq at 10:17 AM on October 5, 2011 [32 favorites]


GuyZero, please don't suggest some kind of moral equivalence there.
posted by fraac at 10:18 AM on October 5, 2011


Why is fraac still commenting here?

I'd ban both accounts forthwith if I had a new blue label by my name. That shit is toxic.
posted by spitbull at 10:18 AM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


There's no rule against being an ass in MetaTalk as I know many of you know. If he doesn't dial it back overall and specifically in the Amanda Knox thread, we'll move towards more "if you can't handle this, then we'll handle it for you" responsiveness.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:20 AM on October 5, 2011


BLUE label by your name? Is it only yellow for me?
posted by DU at 10:22 AM on October 5, 2011


There are also two posts from me directed at both fraac and Horselover Phattie asking you both to knock it off. And rather a lot of deleted comments from both of you.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 10:23 AM on October 5, 2011


Less hyper-responsive, more Horselover-ish pointless barbs. You've made the house style quite clear, jessamyn.
posted by fraac at 10:23 AM on October 5, 2011


I'm using the professional white background and it's a blue label for me.
posted by Stewriffic at 10:24 AM on October 5, 2011


fraac, make the least effort to seem like you give a shit about being here if you do in fact want to be here and aren't just spoiling for fights where you can find them. Starting now would be best.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:24 AM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


"And rather a lot of deleted comments from both of you."

Not nearly enough, imo. Have you seen that Amanda Knox thread? It's a mess.
posted by fraac at 10:24 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ah yes, I too have the Professional White Background going on, and have for so long I sometimes forget it's only an optional setting. Sorry. The staff labels look lovely in blue.
posted by spitbull at 10:25 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


Cortex: check my activity, and please don't characterise me as not giving a shit when you're just talking about a couple of threads.
posted by fraac at 10:26 AM on October 5, 2011


Not nearly enough, imo. Have you seen that Amanda Knox thread? It's a mess.

Ok, it officially went from annoying to entertaining.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:27 AM on October 5, 2011


Man, somebody needs a hug.

I know I do, at least.

But let's remain focused on what's important: figuring out who's right.
posted by Eideteker at 10:28 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


pb: But ye'll destroy the energy matrix an' violate the integrity of the-!
fraac: From hell's heart, I spit at thee, Horeslover Phattie....
jessamyn: FRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC!!!!!!!!!!!


+10 for creativity
-1 for inaccurate mixing of BSG & ST terminology.
posted by googly at 10:29 AM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]


But let's remain focused on what's important: figuring out who's right.

Ooh, I bet it's me. It's me, isn't it? It's usually me. Just ask my boyfriend.
posted by phunniemee at 10:30 AM on October 5, 2011 [21 favorites]


I'd say there's about a 70% chance that feeling so compelled to have your opinion heard that you pay five bucks to dodge bans on the Internet is indicative of a narcissistic personality disorder.
posted by unigolyn at 10:31 AM on October 5, 2011 [24 favorites]


I think I'm suggesting that I'm the kind of horrible person who likes watching people have public meltdowns.
posted by GuyZero at 10:31 AM on October 5, 2011 [5 favorites]


Jesus is just alright with me.
posted by Eideteker at 10:31 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


Cortex: check my activity, and please don't characterise me as not giving a shit when you're just talking about a couple of threads.

I'm very well familiar with your site activity; I've already tried to work with you over email, where explaining why you need to stop fucking around the site and got nothing promising in return. Your behavior on the site since you've joined has sucked and needs to change, immediately, period.

If your position is that you don't need to change your behavior on the site and you're just gonna keep on course as before, feel free to make that plain so we can stop taking time out our day to even try to make this work with you.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:32 AM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


googly: "+10 for creativity
-1 for inaccurate mixing of BSG & ST terminology.
"

The Borg were created by man....
posted by zarq at 10:35 AM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


I'm off to do an AskMefi. Let's see if it lasts longer than five minutes this time.
posted by fraac at 10:38 AM on October 5, 2011


Man daring the mods to moderate you is pretty much the most worn-out tactic in the troll playbook.
posted by silby at 10:40 AM on October 5, 2011 [14 favorites]


Wowzers.
posted by futz at 10:40 AM on October 5, 2011


Oh, and bye bye!
posted by futz at 10:41 AM on October 5, 2011


Man daring the mods to moderate you is pretty much the most worn-out tactic in the troll playbook.

But like football's "Hail Mary" it is the most entertaining to watch.
posted by GuyZero at 10:43 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


If your position is that you don't need to change your behavior on the site and you're just gonna keep on course as before, feel free to make that plain so we can stop taking time out our day to even try to make this work with you.

....

I'm off to do an AskMefi. Let's see if it lasts longer than five minutes this time.

Well, he only made you take out six more minutes?
posted by unigolyn at 10:43 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


check my activity, and please don't characterise me as not giving a shit when you're just talking about a couple of threads.

We are trying very hard not to make this personal, but believe me when I say that we have checked your acitivity and we are saying this is a sitewide problem that centers around you [and yeah we dropped Horselover Phattie a note to chill out as well. He's a site member that has a much longer track record of mostly being okay here] in AskMe as well as here.

Sometimes this is just a n00b or "bad fit" situation and so we try to give people an opportunity to get up to speed and figure out how this place works differently from other places they might be used to. But once we've made it plain that there's a problem and if you've made it plain that you're not concerned about that, we shift into "site harm reduction" mode, because there's only so much time we can spend dealing with people who are Not Getting It.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:43 AM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


Listening to "Clowntime is Over"
posted by victors at 10:43 AM on October 5, 2011


Huhn, I never ever heard of a fraac until now.

Doesn't seem like I've missed out on much, either in his regard, or things in general. Meh.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:45 AM on October 5, 2011


Why is this thread still open?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:46 AM on October 5, 2011


I wonder if some of you think twice about goading someone in the middle of a thread where the mods are actively trying to get him to chill out. It's kinda counterproductive.
posted by cribcage at 10:46 AM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]


Look, for what it's worth I had an email exchange with the other account yesterday and was still kind of bitten by the "SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET" bug, and that influenced my engagement with him today. I don't really enjoy hostility and will try to ignore loony comments henceforth.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 10:48 AM on October 5, 2011 [7 favorites]


I wonder if some of you think twice about goading someone in the middle of a thread where the mods are actively trying to get him to chill out. It's kinda counterproductive.

I don't think twice, no. My enjoyment of the site would be greatly increased/restored if they and others like them (Assuming the behavior displayed here is typical) pissed off. If they flame out or get banned or whatever, makes no difference to me.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:51 AM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


I wonder if some of you think twice about goading someone in the middle of a thread where the mods are actively trying to get him to chill out

Trolls gotta eat too.
posted by Hoopo at 10:54 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


I have wondered if my enjoyment of flameout threads maybe indicates that I am in some way mental.
posted by angrycat at 10:55 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


There is a very small likelihood of that, angrycat.

23.74%, to be exact.
posted by Curious Artificer at 10:56 AM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


I'd like someone to work with me via email, How do I schedule a session.
posted by Ad hominem at 10:57 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


Well, if fraac and the rest of Metafilter get nothing else out of this experience, at least we'll all learn which kinds of cool stuff like different towels we should pack next to the pants and socks in our luggage on our way to Spain.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:58 AM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]


Ad, if the money is right I am open in the mornings.
posted by wheelieman at 10:58 AM on October 5, 2011


I'm off to do an AskMefi. Let's see if it lasts longer than five minutes this time.
posted by fraac at 1:38 PM on October 5 [+] [!]



I know you're not my doctor, but any thoughts on how I can get my head out of my ass? [more inside]
posted by anonymous to health and fitness at 1:39 PM - 9 answers (9 new) +

 
posted by pardonyou? at 10:59 AM on October 5, 2011 [21 favorites]


I'd like someone to work with me via email, How do I schedule a session.

"Talk you off of what, Pop-pop?"
posted by griphus at 11:04 AM on October 5, 2011 [9 favorites]


This fraac guy, he is just so badass. He's like the Kenny Powers of Metafilter. He has the mind of a fucking scientist.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:07 AM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]


You're poisoning the Well of Metafilter Second Chances, fraac.
posted by jamjam at 11:08 AM on October 5, 2011


"He's like the Kenny Powers of Metafilter. He has the mind of a fucking scientist."

And?
posted by fraac at 11:11 AM on October 5, 2011


Will Metafilter now be able to set its tap water on fire?
posted by kmz at 11:13 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


It is at times like this that I become aware that the mods have several orders of magnitude more patience than I ever could attain.

It's like watching someone poke the lion in the face with a stick over and over and over and over and over....
posted by Brockles at 11:14 AM on October 5, 2011 [26 favorites]


I'm bored and my popcorn is getting cold.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2011


I'm kind of amazed that in all the years of metafilter we've just now had to create a rule forbidding people from creating sock puppets to get around being banned for intransigent naughtiness.

I mean no criticism by noting it. I genuinely think it's amazing we'd not had to create one far earlier.
posted by winna at 11:21 AM on October 5, 2011 [7 favorites]


I'm floored and my cockporn is getting old.
posted by Pallas Athena at 11:22 AM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


Fuck it, i think fraac is funny. Not so much laugh at the jokes funny, but funny in the way Andy Kaufman is funny.

The mods have a job to do, but the rest of you running around with your hands in the air screaming fire is hilarious.
posted by pickinganameismuchharderthanihadanticipated at 11:23 AM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]


I have wondered if my enjoyment of flameout threads maybe indicates that I am in some way mental.

I read that as "in some way metal," and I was going to comment, but then I read it again, and I don't know if I am disappointed or not.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:24 AM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


My initial response to yellow letters on a blue background is to take what is said seriously, and expect serious and thoughtful engagement when I make the effort to be serious and engage.

I guess I got trolled very effectively.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:24 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


I still want to know who fraak married.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:25 AM on October 5, 2011


Neither of them. One of them I have to stop getting murdered in the meantime before I even decide how much I like her.
posted by fraac at 11:29 AM on October 5, 2011


You're in your own little Hitchcock thriller, aren't you?
posted by Think_Long at 11:30 AM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]


Certainly makes sense to me.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:31 AM on October 5, 2011


I wouldn't say Hitchcock.
posted by fraac at 11:33 AM on October 5, 2011


The Fraac type is one of the reasons I adore MetaFilter. Anyone who can come up with crazy gems like this is a source of high amusement to me:

"That's funny: psychopaths, borderlines and other autistics are the only people I can work with without serious acting effort. 'Normals' mostly appear to see people as nodes in a hierarchy; you either have to dominate them from above or play them from below."

Unlike the time when the nutty woman in the laundromat insisted I was a superhero and wondered why I hadn't answered the letters she'd sent, MeFi allows me to dip into the convoluted thinking of some truly...unusual people with (relative) safety.
posted by HopperFan at 11:33 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm a little confused by some of the responses in this thread. Are there actually people who believe that this "fraac" persona is participating in the site in good faith? It's so blatantly someone who is clumsily attempting to fuck with Metafilter that I'm uncertain as to why the account has been allowed to remain active.
posted by dersins at 11:37 AM on October 5, 2011 [6 favorites]


Well, this isn't looking any less like performance art, so I think we're done bothering, fraac. Have fun in Spain, I guess.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:38 AM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]


"I wonder if some of you think twice about goading someone in the middle of a thread where the mods are actively trying to get him to chill out. It's kinda counterproductive."

Yeah, it's one of those places where a member can be torn between empathy and affection for the mods (in desiring not to make their lives worse by goading a doofus) and the overall desire to just have the doofus act out enough to get banned and be done with it.

It's the same problem that some lefties wrestle with when trying to decide whether to vote for archconservatives in the hope that making the country worse in the short run will make it easier to radicalize it for the better in the long run.
posted by klangklangston at 11:38 AM on October 5, 2011


I'm uncertain as to why the account has been allowed to remain active.

It hasn't
posted by Hoopo at 11:40 AM on October 5, 2011


It's so blatantly someone who is clumsily attempting to fuck with Metafilter that I'm uncertain as to why the account has been allowed to remain active.

Hope springs, if not eternal, at least fairly prodigiously in Modland. We were really hoping he'd just get it out of his system. No joy.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:43 AM on October 5, 2011 [3 favorites]


That was really kind of exhausting.
posted by OmieWise at 11:46 AM on October 5, 2011


It's been a while since we've had a determined troll, hasn't it?
posted by klangklangston at 11:46 AM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]




It's the same problem that some lefties wrestle with when trying to decide whether to vote for archconservatives in the hope that making the country worse in the short run will make it easier to radicalize it for the better in the long run.
posted by klangklangston at 11:38 AM on October 5 [+] [!]


Personally, I'd recommend asking a good friend to kick you in a delicate place any time you profess such desires.
posted by Stagger Lee at 11:46 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


t's the same problem that some lefties wrestle with when trying to decide whether to vote for archconservatives

... which I totally read as: anarcho-conservatives and was all like, whut.
posted by joe lisboa at 11:50 AM on October 5, 2011


Ahh. That felt good.
posted by Jofus at 11:51 AM on October 5, 2011


I have a question!

....What the HELL does "The Oxford Handbook of Eye Movements" even mean?....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:53 AM on October 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


... The Aristocrats!
posted by nathancaswell at 11:54 AM on October 5, 2011 [13 favorites]


I'm going to close this up since in the absence of the person being discussed there seems to be nothing to discuss. EC, feel free to MeMail Artw directly about the Oxford stuff. I don't know either.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:55 AM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]




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