Mixed Messages October 28, 2011 8:14 PM   Subscribe

This FPP was deleted by a junior mod (restless_nomad) well after a senior mod (cortex) made a comment. Is cortex's participation not a tacit approval (in a "this can stay" sense) of the post?
posted by troll to Etiquette/Policy at 8:14 PM (180 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

The junior mod had a conversation with the senior mod before deletion, as usually happens. It wasn't a terrible post on the face of it, but it was the fourth post about this guy this year, so it's ranging into double (or quadruple) territory even though the actual links aren't the same.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:17 PM on October 28, 2011 [13 favorites]


Is cortex's participation not a tacit approval

Nope, it's not. We all talked about it [yes on a Friday night during the World Series] and decided it probably had to go. r_n got to it first.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:17 PM on October 28, 2011


Are y'all baseball fans? Who are you rooting for?
posted by zarq at 8:18 PM on October 28, 2011


Yeah, one mod commenting in a thread is not insurance against another mod deleting the post. It doesn't happen a whole ton but this is hardly the first time. I've definitely killed some dumb posts after Matt commented in them, for example.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:19 PM on October 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


I am rooting for the Cardinals. I asked Siri who was likely to win and it denied knowing what the World Series was.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:19 PM on October 28, 2011 [14 favorites]


I have to say it. Sorry. But I really dislike the idea of "junior" moderators. If Matt chose someone to be a moderator then I hope we can treat them all with equal respect. Thank you.
posted by taff at 8:22 PM on October 28, 2011 [214 favorites]


Woo!
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:22 PM on October 28, 2011


The Cardinals win!

Thanks for clearing that up. I just thought it was a little odd.
posted by troll at 8:23 PM on October 28, 2011


And they won! :)
posted by zarq at 8:24 PM on October 28, 2011


Besides, this deletion wasn't a cut-and-dried one -- it wasn't a double, and people weren't going all psycho in it. This particular deletion was an edge-case, and was deleted not for what it was, but what the poster had posted about previously. Without the 3 other posts, it could have stood.
posted by crunchland at 8:26 PM on October 28, 2011


Yay Cardinals! Ted Drewes for everyone except those who find it necessary to harass moderators (of any seniority) on a Friday night!
posted by scody at 8:28 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Your mom is a junior maude.
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 8:31 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sorry. But I really dislike the idea of "junior" moderators.

I've been into J-Mod pretty much forever.
posted by lukemeister at 8:33 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


If Matt chose someone to be a moderator then I hope we can treat them all with equal respect.

Sure, but respect is a different matter than rank, however informal. If jessamyn and taz simultaneously posted contradictory opinions on site policy, which do you think would prevail? I'm sure they'd talk it over like gentlewomen behind the scenes and come to an agreement, but there's no denying that jessamyn has earned her chevrons.

Ted Drewes for everyone except those who find it necessary to harass moderators (of any seniority) on a Friday night!

Really? Harassment? Ok.
posted by troll at 8:34 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah, that was unfair. Sorry, I take that back. Had a hideous week and am grumpy for non-Metafilter reasons. Ted Drewes for all!
posted by scody at 8:35 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


The Rangers are Bush's team. They were a sinecure handed to him to make him seem like some kind of administrative whiz, when a city as large and latino as Dallas would be a guaranteed win for anyone running that franchise.

The Cardinials, for a looooong time, were the team to the west of and all down the length of the Mississippi river, until you reached the gulf or the west coast. (The Cubs had the midwest sewn up.)

So as the team of the small town and the wild frontier, I gotta go with the Cards. Congrats!
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:35 PM on October 28, 2011


Yay!
posted by troll at 8:36 PM on October 28, 2011


I've definitely killed some dumb posts after Matt commented in them, for example.

Haha, I saw this once and I wanted so bad to make a meta thread about it but I resisted. I was afraid of starting ragnarok.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 8:37 PM on October 28, 2011 [4 favorites]


If jessamyn and taz simultaneously posted contradictory opinions on site policy, which do you think would prevail?

1) They'd talk it out and reach a consensus, and bring in the other mods for their opinion, and listen to what the users think. Then Matt would have the final say, as he owns the Jazz Drive and the cartridge the site runs off of, tho the Macintosh LC III it's hooked up to is borrowed.

2) Batman would win.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:39 PM on October 28, 2011 [9 favorites]


Yeah, to be clear, we're all mods, we're all doing the same job and basically trust each other with the same autonomy. The notional "junior mod" thing makes sense as a sort of construct that acknowledges that newer mods are newer, so that's not really something I think is inherently objectionable as far as that goes (I think it's language we've used ourselves in the past).

But it's definitely worth acknowledging at the same time that, yeah, a mod's a mod and we don't really look at it hierarchically other than in some narrow "this is a thing for Matt to deal with as the boss and biz guy" sense.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:39 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sure, but respect is a different matter than rank, however informal.

The only workplace culture I ever tolerated and ever will is a flat one. Everyone is on the same level as employees, so I'd hope others would follow my lead on that. There are no real juniors and seniors, we all talk to each other and come to decisions collectively.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:41 PM on October 28, 2011 [84 favorites]


It boggles the mind why new metatalk posts aren't banned on Friday nights.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 8:42 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


It boggles the mind why new metatalk posts aren't banned on Friday nights.

Well I can't claim it's never come up in conversation...
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:44 PM on October 28, 2011


When you're a mod you're a mod without fail
From your first double post to your last snarky derail.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:49 PM on October 28, 2011 [40 favorites]


If anything, you could take the presence of two mods intervening as indication that there is more consensus, not less. I think the odds of taz saying "screw you cortex, it's my shift" are pretty goddamn low.
posted by Errant at 8:49 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


The only workplace culture I ever tolerated and ever will is a flat one.

I respect that. I assumed differently because of the common use of the terms "junior mod" and "senior mod."

It boggles the mind why new metatalk posts aren't banned on Friday nights.

Maybe that open policy is based on the 24/7 worldwide nature of the beast. MeTa-worthy issues happen constantly, so it would be an arbitrary handicap to the utility of the site -- even more so now that there are enough mods to cover every time block.
posted by troll at 8:50 PM on October 28, 2011


Sorry, restless_nomad. The point stands.
posted by Errant at 8:50 PM on October 28, 2011


When you're a mod you're a mod without fail
From your first double post to your last snarky derail.


cortex was right!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 8:52 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


I've been into J-Mod pretty much forever.

Wait, is there a Japanese version of the mod scene? WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:54 PM on October 28, 2011


MIRACLE CURE FOR WORLD'S ENERGY WOES!

That was a pretty terrible post, right there. The fact the r_n deleted it is only the third most remarkable aspect this post, the second being that cortex commented in it (love ya josh!) and the first being that Brian B. hasn't been banned for this kind of spam yet.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:54 PM on October 28, 2011


I think the odds of taz saying "screw you cortex, it's my shift" are pretty goddamn low.

Hello NaNoWriMo idea! Turn in next week to find out what happens WHEN MODs COLLIDE!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:55 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


I assumed differently because of the common use of the terms "junior mod" and "senior mod."

Maybe by other MeFi members on the site, but not by us. We don't routinely refer to mods in that way.

MeTa-worthy issues happen constantly, so it would be an arbitrary handicap to the utility of the site

We're still human and it helps to have an easy "end of the week" in our brains to relax in, but it seems the past few weeks have been a steady stream of some time-consuming posts and I'd be fine with no new MetaTalk posts on Friday or Saturday nights when we're all kind of half-around and would rather not have to hash out site policy for hours.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:56 PM on October 28, 2011 [3 favorites]


Holy shit, the Cards won hey? That's great. Are they gonna riot in Texas, or just band together and lynch the guy who missed the catch yesterday and cost them the game?
posted by mannequito at 8:59 PM on October 28, 2011


We don't routinely refer to mods in that way.

There was a brief period of time when r_n came on when she was part time and actually had, I think, a junior set of tools, sort of the way vacapinta did for his midnight modding. We were going to gradually ramp her up into the full toolkit but decided pretty early on that she should just be using the same tools as the rest of us. When taz started, she had the full toolkit. I don't think we've used the phrase "junior" except maybe to refer to that time period.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:00 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ted Drewes for all!

Oh, man I am totally going to have to go out and scour Boston for frozen custard and gooey butter cake and thin crust pizza with provel cheese cut into little squares tomorrow.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:01 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Well I think I may actually be the youngest mod (actually, I have no clue about taz, now that I think about it.) But I'm still probably older than a quarter of the userbase, so...
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:03 PM on October 28, 2011


I felt old when someone commented about being the five billion and somethingth human. I'm in the 4's.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:06 PM on October 28, 2011 [4 favorites]


It boggles the mind why new metatalk posts aren't banned on Friday nights. --- That's a little problematic on an international message board, isn't it? Your "Friday night" is Saturday evening in Auckland,
posted by crunchland at 9:07 PM on October 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


Yeah but the mods' Friday nights are pretty much my Friday night. There are a million metatalk threads that have been opened in the last six or whatever hours and I don't see how any of them were so crucial they couldn't wait until after the holiday weekend. There are four mods responding in this thread and as far as I know the earliest it is for any of them is 9pm on a Friday. I don't know about you but I only paid five bucks to get in here.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:10 PM on October 28, 2011


Yeah like crunchland said. I have friends in Oz and I'm like yay Sunday and they're like boo off to work Monday.

Also "jr mod," boo. Never thought of it that way.
posted by sweetkid at 9:11 PM on October 28, 2011


Brian B. likes cold fusion stories, and posts new ones every 3 months or so, but that's no reason for banning. He's certainly posting other things. And the first time, he did a metatalk update and Jessamyn suggested just making a new post. Seems all kosher to me.
posted by garlic at 9:12 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah but the mods' Friday nights are pretty much my Friday night. --- Ah. CST. (Cortex Standard Time.)
posted by crunchland at 9:16 PM on October 28, 2011


I was born in this timezone. I want it named after me.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:18 PM on October 28, 2011


And I was born in Montana!
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:21 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Automatic win for me (although I was born in what's pretty much the Montana of California). VST it is!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:23 PM on October 28, 2011


Yeah but the mods' Friday nights are pretty much my Friday night.

Ah, it wouldn't inconvenience you, so fuck everybody else.

There are four mods responding in this thread and as far as I know the earliest it is for any of them is 9pm on a Friday.

I understand why so many mods weighed in on this issue; it bears on their internal hierarchy (or lack of it) so a good showing reinforces "we are all equal in the eyes of the Great Leader." Most MeTas, however, shouldn't require so many mods to resolve. If what they say is true, then one is sufficient. Since all time blocks are nominally staffed by at least one mod, it's not an undue burden on the staff to post at any time.

I don't know about you but I only paid five bucks to get in here.

That's only a minor part of the revenue stream.
posted by troll at 9:29 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Most MeTas, however, shouldn't require so many mods to resolve.

Most MeTas usually involve more than one of us because they often turn into other questions and so we have a sort of unstated policy that we'll try to respond to them in some way if we're around. Yes, late night weekend posts are a burden. One we accept because if stuff is important we'll handle it. This does not mean that if stuff can't wait we wouldn't appreciate if people could wait until some time that was more Mod Daylight Time.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:35 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


This does not mean that if stuff can't wait we wouldn't appreciate --- Fear not. We'll be parsing this well into Monday.
posted by crunchland at 9:38 PM on October 28, 2011


This whole thread is eponysterical!
posted by Justinian at 9:47 PM on October 28, 2011


Troll, in the same way that I don't go into a restaurant, order bread and a glass of water, and start bossing the staff around, I don't expect my five bucks and the negligible value of my beautiful blue eyes on their ads to entitle me to round the clock care and feeding by the mods. But it does! I'm just saying that rather than taking advantage of that for all its worth, recognize that nearly all the mods keep American hours and that people could make their lives easier by keeping that in mind while posting. Maybe your issue was extremely time sensitive and you had to sort out this mod hierarchy business right away, but it seems overgenerous to me for the mods to leave that decision to every user on this site who might post during what by rights should be their time off. But they disagree, and in your favor, so have at.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:59 PM on October 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Instead of turning off metatalk posts for fridays, how about just making a little more friction: an extra page to click through that says something like "hey, if this can wait until monday, we'd appreciate it if you let us relax a bit on the weekend"
posted by aubilenon at 10:11 PM on October 28, 2011 [4 favorites]




Halloween mods.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 10:39 PM on October 28, 2011


And I was born in Montana!

Serendipity!

I might be moving to Montana soon.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:41 PM on October 28, 2011 [3 favorites]


I'm not in favor of junior mod as a term, but it's only natural that long-time Mefites may take some time to grant new mods the respect Jess and Cortex have so amply earned.

I mean, I don't think there's a "hierarchy" at my local coffee shop, but I still don't let the new girl make my macchiatos for a bit.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:49 PM on October 28, 2011


All this nonsense may awake the Justified Ancients of Mod-mod where they sleep in their cold house in O'Rlyeh.
posted by Abiezer at 10:54 PM on October 28, 2011 [5 favorites]


unless troll is a brand new day sort of person, restless_nomad has been a mod longer than troll has been a member.
posted by nadawi at 11:33 PM on October 28, 2011 [6 favorites]


I love the way the mods work together. I would give a lot to have the people at my work have the same community spirit. I hope that it stays that way here for a long time.
posted by Quonab at 11:45 PM on October 28, 2011 [3 favorites]


While I'm sure r_n can handle it, I thought troll's decision to call her "junior mod" was intended to be deliberately insulting, and possibly deliberately humiliating, just because she had deleted a post about cold fusion of all things. It really left a bad taste in my mouth, and this sort of behaviour seems contrary to the spirit of this site.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:56 PM on October 28, 2011 [21 favorites]


mathowie: "come to decisions collectively."

Hive mind... collective decisions... WAIT, you're BORG aren't you?!
posted by IndigoRain at 12:11 AM on October 29, 2011


So, this cold fusion generates more heat than light?
posted by Abiezer at 12:14 AM on October 29, 2011


Yeah. I don't think it would go so far as to say it seemed deliberately insulting, but it definitely seemed putting-her-in-her-place-ish, which irked me. Why not simply ask if a mod commenting in a thread lends enough tacit approval to it for the thread not to be deleted? The framing implying that restless_nomad is too uppity is just an unnecessary annoyance.
posted by cairdeas at 12:16 AM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Man will we all feel stupid if it actually was the dawn of a new cold fusion revolution.

(heh.)
posted by Artw at 12:17 AM on October 29, 2011


So St. Louis, here, durrty. Checking in from the South Side where folks are still crazy in the streets.

(This is the thread where we post to metatalk after stumbling home but before before drunkenly passing out in blissful delirium, yes? That was what I clicked on, I think.)
posted by jjjjjjjijjjjjjj at 12:25 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


On the old Battlestar Galactica the Cylon Raider had a crew of three that ran the ship as a collective.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:09 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


As a senior rocker I disapprove of junior mods.
posted by Decani at 1:45 AM on October 29, 2011 [10 favorites]


So, after taking a long walk...

Villanelles, you're absolutely right.

KokoRyu, I framed this post with the junior/senior angle out of a genuine misunderstanding of the mod arrangement. If the roles had been reversed, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.
posted by troll at 2:03 AM on October 29, 2011


You just cold fusioned my heart. Leeeeegend.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 2:20 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


We're still human

But soon we're going to convert all the Mods into a new form of sentient javascript and then MetaFilter Phase II begins.
posted by doctor_negative at 2:55 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


It was no better than a 9/11 truther thread. Rossi is a con artist, and the fact that this op has made four posts on this bullshit, framed as "updates" no less, suggests he has some sort of too personal a stake in the matter.

Free energy is pure fantasy.
posted by spitbull at 2:59 AM on October 29, 2011


Not if you fiddle your electric meter right!
posted by Abiezer at 3:03 AM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I take back everything I said about the "Staff" tag. It's great.
posted by doublehappy at 3:07 AM on October 29, 2011


You know you're getting old when the mods start looking younger than you.
posted by arcticseal at 3:08 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]




This thing of taking on extra mods (because we're so overloaded) and then seeing them have to operate alongside mods they were supposedly relieving ..... it looks like somebodys not had their melody beattie that day.
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:28 AM on October 29, 2011


KokuRyu: "While I'm sure r_n can handle it, I thought troll's decision to call her "junior mod" was intended to be deliberately insulting, and possibly deliberately humiliating, just because she had deleted a post about cold fusion of all things. It really left a bad taste in my mouth, and this sort of behaviour seems contrary to the spirit of this site."

I came in here angry about this also. These people have been given a damned hard job and 100,000+ sharp-eyed people watching their every move; it's for us to support them in any way we can. If someone brought by Matt and the others involved in the hiring process, if this new person brought into this huge role shows over time poor judgments and/or gets on a power trip, the rest of the team would be the first to be aware of it, and they would deal with it, almost certainly before it got here to meta.

And: If anyone thinks that the new mod is a "junior mod" and not capable and/or has been put into a position in which they don't belong, well hey, now you're questioning Matt, his ability to choose well those people he wants to work with him on his baby. I suspect that in truth anyone questioning about that is questioning Matt, cortex, Jess, anyone else who is almost certain to have been in on making these hiring decisions.

Let the new team gel. Support them all. We need them; no way can it be handled by three people and some add-in support by pb or vacapinta; it's larger than that now.


Joseph Gurl: "I'm not in favor of junior mod as a term, but it's only natural that long-time Mefites may take some time to grant new mods the respect Jess and Cortex have so amply earned.
I think it'd serve our community if those long-time Mefites granted new mods the respect that Matt has granted them in his hiring decision, not to mention the respect that anyone deserves for taking on a difficult job in front of everybody.

I mean, I don't think there's a "hierarchy" at my local coffee shop, but I still don't let the new girl make my macchiatos for a bit."

In coffee shops I've been in, the manager and/or team decides who is going to make what drink for who.
posted by dancestoblue at 3:30 AM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


This thing of taking on extra mods (because we're so overloaded) and then seeing them have to operate alongside mods they were supposedly relieving ..... it looks like somebodys not had their melody beattie that day.

Or possibly, you don't really know how things work? For example, when there are normally two moderators whose time overlaps a bit during busiest hours, and one of them is going to be away for a bit and somebody else steps in to cover that bit of time? Or when dealing with some sticky issue takes up a lot of one or more moderators' time, so someone steps in to help out? I wouldn't call that codependent in a dysfunctional way, as you suggest.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:02 AM on October 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


I still don't let the new girl make my macchiatos

I let the new girl make my macchiato,
she sang while she made it, with skillful vibrato!
Then she said "po-tay-to" and i said "po-tah-to",
and we went out together that night and got blotto!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:01 AM on October 29, 2011


100,000+

Oh come on. It's more like 5000, I'd bet. And really, the number of MeFites who could actually name one mod, let alone all of them, has to be in the hundreds. Registered site members /= active current users.

Not a case for disrespecting any mod. Obviously it's a tough job. But the people who make it really tough probably number in the few dozen at most.
posted by spitbull at 6:06 AM on October 29, 2011


But the people who make it really tough probably number in the few dozen at most.

And hey, there's one less of them as of a few hours ago!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:09 AM on October 29, 2011


?
posted by zarq at 6:10 AM on October 29, 2011


coughuncannyhengemancough
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:11 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


what happened?
posted by taff at 6:12 AM on October 29, 2011


like a steam locomotive
rollin' down the track
he's gone, he's gone
nothin's gonna bring him back...

he's gone
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:15 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


precipitated by what? or am i being a drongo again?
posted by taff at 6:19 AM on October 29, 2011


I like the word drongo.

It went down in this thread.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:22 AM on October 29, 2011


Precipitated by him being pretty much totally tone-deaf.
posted by h00py at 6:36 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ah. Always sorry to see folk go. It's nice when it becomes a learning moment as opposed to a leaving moment.
posted by taff at 6:40 AM on October 29, 2011


The Rangers are Bush's team. They were a sinecure handed to him to make him seem like some kind of administrative whiz, when a city as large and latino as Dallas would be a guaranteed win for anyone running that franchise.


GODDAMNIT.

Bush hasn't had an ownership stake in the Rangers since 1994, and the franchise has wholesale changed ownership TWICE since then. And he was never a majority owner, only the "land man" for that ownership group.

The Cardinials, for a looooong time, were the team to the west of and all down the length of the Mississippi river, until you reached the gulf or the west coast. (The Cubs had the midwest sewn up.)

No, for a long time there was this thing called the Pacific Coast League that was the primary league of the West Coast; hell, it almost became a third major league. The idea the Cards are somehow this "team of the vast West" gainsays that minor league baseball in this country was as big a deal, if not bigger, than MLB until the Dodgers and Giants started coming west.

Also, Tony LaRussa has managed teams filled with players shooting performance enhancing drugs, and at the least he knew it was happening and said nothing, at the worst he outright encouraged it.

Oh, and also, here's LaRussa and Pujols at a Glenn Beck rally last year.

But seriously, I think any liberal who goes around saying "I hate the Rangers because Dubya owns them!" should have their baseball fan credentials revoked personally by Nate Silver. Because GODDAMNIT I've had enough of this bullshit. You're hating on a team that he hasn't owned for 17 years while lionizing a team filled with the crazy cuckoo right-wingers you love to make breathless FPPs about.
posted by dw at 7:12 AM on October 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


I might be moving to Montana soon.

If you do, can you hook me up with some dental floss?
posted by TedW at 7:18 AM on October 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


And really, the number of MeFites who could actually name one mod, let alone all of them, has to be in the hundreds.

Duh. It's Micky, Mike, Davy, Peter and Taz.
posted by mintcake! at 7:27 AM on October 29, 2011 [8 favorites]


Nope, it's Dopey, Sleepy, Sneezy, Bashful, Happy, Grumpy, and Doc.
posted by nooneyouknow at 8:02 AM on October 29, 2011


I can also name all the members of New Edition.
posted by box at 8:03 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is what it sounds like when Mods cry.
posted by The Whelk at 8:05 AM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I hate the Rangers because they are in the Other League. And because Texas fans were all "Ooh look at the faggots from San Francisco!" when the Giants beat them last year. I always have liked Nolan Ryan, though.
posted by rtha at 8:40 AM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Oh wait, is vacapinta not sometimes modding anymore?
posted by The Whelk at 8:47 AM on October 29, 2011


Vacapinta made it snow the day after the world series ended so the other weather gods gave him a one day timeout.
posted by mintcake! at 8:52 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Bush hasn't had an ownership stake in the Rangers since 1994, and the franchise has wholesale changed ownership TWICE since then. And he was never a majority owner, only the "land man" for that ownership group.

The Curse of Bush isn't impressed by your legalisms.
posted by Trurl at 8:52 AM on October 29, 2011


Nope, it's Dopey, Sleepy, Sneezy, Bashful, Happy, Grumpy, and Doc.

And Thorin Oakenshield.
posted by Curious Artificer at 8:59 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/29/rossi-success

The successful test should pave the way for further work at the University of Bologna, and more contracts with the enigmatic customer. NyTeknik did discover one possible clue to their identity. The customer's controller, one Domenico Fioravanti, apparently reports to a man whose title is "Colonel". This suggests that the mystery customer might be DARPA, the Pentagon's extreme science wing which, as Wired.co.uk has previously noted, has expressed interestin Rossi's work -- but which might not be quite ready to explain to its political masters why it spent millions on a cold fusion device.

It was reported earlier that DARPA also budgeted money for joint research with an Italian nuclear agency. I do hope that governments get a hold of this technology, because it could easily be acquired by those that would hold it back. Piantelli's group is now also involved, as competition, and holds some patents already for nickel-hydrogen energy generation, so their foot is in the door. NASA is supposedly working with that group, after meeting with Rossi, because Rossi's apparently more interested in popularizing his invention.
posted by Brian B. at 9:05 AM on October 29, 2011


Oh wait, is vacapinta not sometimes modding anymore?

That would suck because is there anything cooler than the idea of a midnight mod? There ought to be a tv show, Vacapinta's Midnight Mod Hour, a breezy, casual chat show with smoking jackets and tasseled loafers and an open bar.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:07 AM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


And lounge music in the intro.
posted by That's Numberwang! at 9:12 AM on October 29, 2011


We need t shirts, I was there for the Great Meta Explosion of aught eleven, and such.
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 AM on October 29, 2011


Luckily there was that comforting snort of brandy waiting for you in the Midnight Mod Lounge.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:17 AM on October 29, 2011


vacapinta not sometimes modding anymore?

vacapinta was always just a volunteer sometimes-mod who would check in in the middle of the night. Lately he'd been away on weekends which was totally fine but we noticed an uptick in waking up on weekend mornings with something that needed dealing with, either email or some sort of dustup. This was when we started thinking "Gee another mod, and one that was really working during US night, would be great" So I guess taz is technically the midnight mod.

This thing of taking on extra mods (because we're so overloaded) and then seeing them have to operate alongside mods they were supposedly relieving

Yeah I agree with taz, you don't really understand how things work on the back end here. While all of us have loose shifts when we're supposed to really be around, that doesn't mean there's not other times when we're just checking in or hanging out because we're actually participating in a thread or asking our own questions or making our own posts. While there's usually one person who has primary responsibility for the flag queue and email, if we're around we'll usually check in to MeTa especially if there's something actively going on there. And if there's a problem and we see it, we'll take care of it. It's true that newer mods have better boundaries probably than longer time mods and that's probably good for everyone involved [and part of why we have newer mods] but you'll still see most of us around most of the time.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:21 AM on October 29, 2011


Free energy is pure fantasy.

I agree, that's communism. But tell that to the hordes who hold it against Rossi for keeping secrets and not sharing his technology with everyone who wants it. They talk about science as if it's not done in secured corporate labs. Rossi's crime was making populistic promises without asking for money from anyone except a corporate licensee. People assumed he wanted their money too. It really confuses a lot of people for some reason.

And, making fun of Bologna as a pun was avoided all the way until this last deleted thread, despite being the oldest university in the world. Worth noting I say. Regardless, this followup for the long awaited October test was promised in January and delivered to the day, yesterday, against committed naysayers all year long. The disappointment was predictable.
posted by Brian B. at 9:23 AM on October 29, 2011


I might be moving to Montana soon.

Gonna be a Dental Floss tycoon?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:19 AM on October 29, 2011


Free energy != communism.

Free energy = magic.

Every single mystery that has been solved, ever, in the history of human record, has turned out not to be magic.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:28 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ah. Thanks. A comment uncanny made about me in another thread awhile back triggered one of the most uncomfortable Meta threads I've ever been a part of.

Regardless, I'm sorry to see him go. Hopefully if he does take the BND option he'll have an easier time of it.
posted by zarq at 10:37 AM on October 29, 2011


This FPP was deleted by a junior mod (restless_nomad) well after a senior mod (cortex) made a comment. Is cortex's participation not a tacit approval (in a "this can stay" sense) of the post?

Way to phrase this like a tool, junior anonymous member.
posted by hal_c_on at 10:52 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Way to phrase this like a tool, junior anonymous member.

Please don't do this. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:54 AM on October 29, 2011


Every single mystery that has been solved, ever, in the history of human record, has turned out not to be magic.

Struggle with magic issues do we? FYI, Just because something is not known doesn't mean magic is involved.
posted by Brian B. at 10:56 AM on October 29, 2011



Free energy is pure fantasy.

Except for dark energy, of course, which is a multiple of all other forms of energy combined:

"What’s strange about this idea is that as space expands, so too does the amount of energy. If you’ve spotted the flaw in this argument, you’re not alone. Forgetting the law of conservation of energy is no small oversight."

I like to think that, if I were not a professional cosmologist, I would still find it hard to believe that hundreds of cosmologists around the world have latched on to an idea that violates a bedrock principle of physics, simply because they “forgot” it. If the idea of dark energy were in conflict with some other much more fundamental principle, I suspect the theory would be a lot less popular.

But many people have just this reaction. It’s clear that cosmologists have not done a very good job of spreading the word about something that’s been well-understood since at least the 1920′s: energy is not conserved in general relativity. (With caveats to be explained below.)

The point is pretty simple: back when you thought energy was conserved, there was a reason why you thought that, namely time-translation invariance. A fancy way of saying “the background on which particles and forces evolve, as well as the dynamical rules governing their motions, are fixed, not changing with time.” But in general relativity that’s simply no longer true. Einstein tells us that space and time are dynamical, and in particular that they can evolve with time. When the space through which particles move is changing, the total energy of those particles is not conserved. ...

posted by jamjam at 11:09 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Struggle with magic issues do we?

No. If you have been persuaded to view this dude's cold fusion junk as anything but magic, and false, then that's a pretty massive gulf that I don't feel personally equipped or motivated to try and convince you to climb back across. And normally I wouldn't comment on the topic at all (cf. lack of any participation in pseudoscience discussions on the green) but the communism remark got my goat.

Please let me know, however, when this one dude without peer review has solved the world's energy problem. That'd be a sweet ass trick.

And if you have the time for a 9 minute beat poem by an Australian skeptic and want to know where the magic quote is a reference from, see here. I think the very last line may be especially relevant for you.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:12 AM on October 29, 2011


Please let me know, however, when this one dude without peer review has solved the world's energy problem.

It was deleted by popular demand. Sorry.
posted by Brian B. at 11:19 AM on October 29, 2011


*blue
posted by lazaruslong at 11:20 AM on October 29, 2011


Wanna bet?
posted by lazaruslong at 11:23 AM on October 29, 2011


Way to phrase this like a tool, junior anonymous member.

I regret that Troll has taken such abuse by members who are displacing their anger towards him. There is an effect on the internet where 1% of the population will seem like 100% of the prevailing opinion. In this regard, forums often behave like a coping mechanism for some ailments, especially when chummy recognition by an authority figure is sought.

Wanna bet?

What odds are you giving? 50-50 isn't your true position since you're denying several test results, and presumably would deny many more. You seem to be denying excess energy itself, which few critics are doing anymore. How about 100-1 odds? Some can put up two dollars to your 200? Imagine winning those two bucks. The simple pride would be worth that risk.
posted by Brian B. at 11:56 AM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I haven't been following the whole cold fusion/free energy thing, but have the several test results been replicated by anyone else?
posted by rtha at 12:05 PM on October 29, 2011


A "test result" that has not been independently verified or replicated or even published in a peer-reviewed journal is not a "test result," but a *claim* of a test result.

I'll take your odds. $200 to the charity of your choice if Rossi's claims are vindicated by a published replication in a major peer-reviewed journal (US or Western Europe) within 2 years.

If I lose, you can give the $2 to Rossi so he can buy a new house.
posted by spitbull at 12:06 PM on October 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


I will take your favoriting of my comment as an acceptance of the bet. Care to make it richer? I'm not worried. I know a con artist when I see one.
posted by spitbull at 12:13 PM on October 29, 2011


I'll take your odds. $200 to the charity of your choice if Rossi's claims are vindicated by a published replication in a major peer-reviewed journal (US or Western Europe) within 2 years.

If I lose, you can give the $2 to Rossi so he can buy a new house.


You would need to include a serviceable module producing energy for a paying customer, who is presumed to be a disinterested party to Rossi. That's what the technology is slated for, by the way, cold fusion research is boycotted by most journals and everyone knows it, in part because it does away with a lot of physics, and most funding, and most funding sources. It's reiterated again and again in the background interviews. Also, I would spend 2 bucks on a shot of espresso while designing a new LENR steam espresso machine on the napkin.
posted by Brian B. at 12:16 PM on October 29, 2011


No I don't. A sucker is born every minute, and a paying customer will have a financial interest in maintaining the deception.

Peer-reviewed scientific American or European physics journal article, reporting on the independent (as in Rossi not involved) reproduction of the same experiment run today (but producing the original 1MW as output).
posted by spitbull at 12:19 PM on October 29, 2011


I guarantee you an actual replication of this result by an independent lab would not be boycotted by any journal.

Come on, we went through this for a decade with Pons and Fleischmann. Special pleading about why the normal rules of science don't apply to cold fusion claims is *why* most serious scientists and journals dismiss these claims out of hand.
posted by spitbull at 12:21 PM on October 29, 2011


No I don't. A sucker is born every minute, and a paying customer will have a financial interest in maintaining the deception.

I don't really agree here. If the Army is running an expensive module for whatever reason, they aren't carrying anyone's water for the sake of bad science. Or anyone for that matter. The same experiment run yesterday was a large scale test that is unmanageable by any lab. Uppsala and Bologna will be doing these tests on a smaller scale. But yes, okay to the bet because it's only an espresso.
posted by Brian B. at 12:24 PM on October 29, 2011


It's only $200 for me, which will be trivial if electricity becomes essentially free for the asking.

We have no confirmation that "the army" is the mysterious "paying customer" Rossi claims to have. The idea that the little dog and pony show Rossi ran the other day is "unmanageable by any lab" is absurd.
posted by spitbull at 12:26 PM on October 29, 2011


But I will put a deadline on it. By Nov. 1, 2014.
posted by spitbull at 12:26 PM on October 29, 2011


Come on, we went through this for a decade with Pons and Fleischmann.

Pons and Fleischmann were vindicated already by others, if we're talking excess energy. Rossi really has nothing to do with them, except that their names come up all the time.
posted by Brian B. at 12:27 PM on October 29, 2011


Guys, take this to email if you want to keep discussing it but let's skip the free-energy-thread-by-proxy thing in here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:31 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Roger that. Sorry cortex.
posted by spitbull at 12:36 PM on October 29, 2011


I kind of wish the thread hadn't been deleted, then - this is an interesting conversation.
posted by dialetheia at 1:22 PM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Maybe next time there's a Fringe related thread...
posted by Artw at 1:25 PM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


No talking about fringe! I've grown mine out and it took years. There is no discussion to be had.
posted by deborah at 1:42 PM on October 29, 2011


I agree with you dialetheia; when an interesting discussion related to an FPP breaks out in a thread about its deletion, that's an indication the deletion may have been a mistake, and such discussion can make up for that mistake to some extent.

In other words, it can be a kind of safety valve.

But moderation would seem to be expressing a preference for an unending succession of silly jokes, instead.
posted by jamjam at 2:08 PM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


that's an indication the deletion may have been a mistake, and such discussion can make up for that mistake to some extent.

There are many many topics that may make for great conversation that do not mean that the original post about the topic is right for MetaFilter. This is one such case.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:10 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


There may not be junior mods, but I hear the Junior Cabal is selling Cabal Scout cookies this year.

There is no cabal.
posted by sonika at 2:52 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


But moderation would seem to be expressing a preference for an unending succession of silly jokes, instead.

When people get that angry about something, the mods risk defection. This board is also a playground, a place of leisure and escape. The mods did the expedient thing. Any board obsessed with intricate details of lighter fare isn't right for a sudden hinted upheaval to the world economy - the standard order they've accepted, the knowledge they already posses, etc. That's terrifying to some, and most people have no idea how even welcome change is an automatic threat to their coping skills. Some of us just prefer the meaty stuff that needs addressing, although it psychologically triggers negative emotions. I already knew it would get deleted based on the rabid and emotional responses earlier, but I was locked in it for the followup since January, because Rossi framed the entire development of his apparatus as a sale at the October trials. He never wavered on this. So I fulfilled my duty, and my sense of humor is undamaged, and I don't expect objectivity or positive solutions to problem from anyone but the rarest people.

Lastly, in hindsight, there is some genius here we can expect from an inventor and non-scientist, but also a philosophy major and engineer. He knows that when people cough up the cash, they put out a product to cover the expenses. He knows that cold fusion is a non-starter for most scientists, since he saw how cold fusion was ignored or mistreated for so long. I certainly remember. You can read about it here, especially in the comments.
posted by Brian B. at 2:59 PM on October 29, 2011


Last request - this MeTa thread needs to not become a MeFi post by proxy.

Lots of people defect from the site all the time for a variety of reason. Keeping potential defectors calm is not in the top fifty reasons we do what we do here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:04 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Someone told me there were Junior Mints here. So, who's holdin'?
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:14 PM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Leaving the subject of the deleted post aside, this:

I fulfilled my duty

seems odd way to describe the act of posting; most people post out of interest, not out of any self-imposed duty. Maybe this is why your post was seen as problematic and why you were seen as That Guy That Always Posts About That.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 3:27 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


seems odd way to describe the act of posting; most people post out of interest,

They're exclusive now? I had started something unpopular, but which had a clear deadline raised at the start, and it was going my way obviously, but pissing more people off each time. I don't expect you to get it.
posted by Brian B. at 3:32 PM on October 29, 2011


I think what he's saying is that Man On A Mission is maybe not the best approach to selecting FPP material. We all post things on the blue that we find interesting, and want others to find them interesting, too. But there's a way of taking that general attitude of sharing and turning the dial up to 11 that can turn an otherwise interesting subject into squelching feedback.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:38 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


But there's a way of taking that general attitude of sharing and turning the dial up to 11 that can turn an otherwise interesting subject into squelching feedback.

That's a crowd response though, not the poster's problem, or we might as well blame people of different ethnicities as the instigators in racism. I see it all the time, actually, recently on the Taibi-Perry thread. Some were hung up on the Hitler reference to Perry, refused to read any further, made it the issue instead, discouraged others, etc. It's daily, I'm sure. I understand why they do it though. Some stuff is extremely disturbing to our sensibilities, so much so that the act of willing it away is discouraging others.
posted by Brian B. at 3:57 PM on October 29, 2011


Yeah, and I agree with that. But the "crowd response" isn't always the problem; sometimes, it's quite accurate. Such as if the subject of an FPP is a fraudster, for example. There's also the entire question of whether or not a particular subject - given the strong and negative reactions it creates - makes for a good post in itself. It is a community site, after all.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:05 PM on October 29, 2011


But moderation would seem to be expressing a preference for an unending succession of silly jokes, instead.

This is not a preference for silly jokes, this is a desire to not have this be a shadow version of a thread that already got deleted specifically because of a single user hobby horsing a pet topic on the front page. Brian B. is welcome to start his own Rossi blog; this is not it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:07 PM on October 29, 2011


sometimes, it's quite accurate.

Subjective, no matter how many people you've got. 1% of emotional responders easily dominate any thread.
posted by Brian B. at 4:08 PM on October 29, 2011


Brian B. is welcome to start his own Rossi blog; this is not it.

Too many already. I was just passing on the earth shattering developments, which were treated as redundancies. But then if they were really redundancies....never mind.
posted by Brian B. at 4:14 PM on October 29, 2011


Junior Senior
posted by not_on_display at 4:38 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Cold fusion crackpots: SILENCED ALL THEIR LIVES

Paraphrasing the great Carl Sagan: They laughed at Galileo, they laughed at the Wright Brothers, but they also laughed at Timecube guy and Birthers and Truthers.
posted by kmz at 5:31 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'll bet dollars to donuts that troll is brian b.
posted by empath at 5:43 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


There's also the entire question of whether or not a particular subject - given the strong and negative reactions it creates - makes for a good post in itself. It is a community site, after all.

There's also the question of the cost of avoiding negative reactions. Too much avoidance, and the community suffers from groupthink; too little, it fractures the communal identity. The former seems to be the default status of MetaFilter (cf. the exodus of the conservative minority in the early aughts), primarily because it's easier to shout with the mob than against it.

That's not to say the discussion isn't excellent or the userbase isn't intelligent. But I sense a reactionary tendency in the discourse, as though any debate of widely held "truths" within the community is a referendum on the community itself. Controversial episodes are uncomfortable, but necessary. Call them "growing pains."

None of this necessarily bears on the FPP in question, which was deleted for other reasons.
posted by troll at 5:46 PM on October 29, 2011


There's also the question of the cost of avoiding negative reactions. Too much avoidance, and the community suffers from groupthink; too little, it fractures the communal identity. The former seems to be the default status of MetaFilter (cf. the exodus of the conservative minority in the early aughts), primarily because it's easier to shout with the mob than against it.

This is kind of slippery-slope material, and I think the list of topics that Metafilter cannot do is in the single digits. And even those can be framed in such a way as to make a good FPP.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 5:48 PM on October 29, 2011


I'll bet dollars to donuts that troll is brian b.

I'll bet any feasible amount. Seriously.
posted by Brian B. at 5:51 PM on October 29, 2011


but they also laughed at Timecube guy and Birthers and Truthers.

But not for generating half a megawatt per hour out of a common shipping container without fossil fuel.
posted by Brian B. at 5:59 PM on October 29, 2011


This is kind of slippery-slope material, and I think the list of topics that Metafilter cannot do is in the single digits. And even those can be framed in such a way as to make a good FPP.

Yeah, it's not an easy balance. The mods do outstanding work, for the most part. I'm more addressing the community at large.

The idea that there are some topics that MetaFilter "doesn't do well" really bugs me. How can we be intellectually progressive if we aren't intellectually honest? These taboos are a practical measure; the mods can't consistently handle the increased workload. This is a perfectly reasonable way to run the site, but it's an irresponsible way to participate in the site. The workload increases because of offended sensibilities and resultant flamewars. and that's the userbase's problem.

I am not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not Brian B.
posted by troll at 6:05 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not

I had to count. The proper odd number is there. Evens would be wrong.
posted by Brian B. at 6:08 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


The idea that there are some topics that MetaFilter "doesn't do well" really bugs me.

It bugs me, too. But I think there is a "balance", as you say, and a big part of that is how a subject is framed. It's not like there's an outright ban on I/P threads, for example (as far as I know); the FPP just needs to be framed the right way. I think people who are downright put off by an entire subject, who post only to say "god I'm so sick of seeing this shit" aren't posting well, just as tossing up an inflammatory I/P FPP isn't a good practice as well.

In the sense that some subjects are touchier than others in our everyday conversations, how we present is subject is just as important as being able to approach sensitive topics with an open mind.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:10 PM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Metafilter does science exceptionally well. That's what makes this a tough place to pitch pseudoscientific claims here.
posted by spitbull at 6:18 PM on October 29, 2011 [5 favorites]


Metafilter does science exceptionally well.

I disagree. I still recall the condescending bacteria-in-Martian-artifacts thread, and the sneering at lifelong scientists for not having the best job or diploma, discrediting anything at hand by way of association, and flaunting anything at hand by the same. It was almost a complete shoutdown, with pseudo-intellectual bullying, and just plain rotten egoism. Then a few months later they find photo evidence of water on Mars. What a hoot.
posted by Brian B. at 6:24 PM on October 29, 2011


There are dozens of actual scientists here. If not more. You can cherry pick but it just makes the point.
posted by spitbull at 6:29 PM on October 29, 2011


There are dozens of actual scientists here. If not more. You can cherry pick but it just makes the point.

Yes, nothing on them. But, my point was about doing it well.
posted by Brian B. at 6:32 PM on October 29, 2011


Brian, did mean to link the thread that linked to an article in a crackpot journal that you're referring to?

You probably should have, if you're going to throw around accusations.
posted by empath at 6:33 PM on October 29, 2011


Yeah, that is odd. I'm not seeing the connection between "shady journal publishes bacterial evidence from Mars" and "reputable scientists find evidence of running water on Mars".
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:36 PM on October 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


You probably should have, if you're going to throw around accusations.

That's the one. And you were saying something about accusations?
posted by Brian B. at 6:36 PM on October 29, 2011


Yeah, that is odd. I'm not seeing the connection between "shady journal publishes bacterial evidence from Mars" and "reputable scientists find evidence of running water on Mars".

Really? Let's see, the medium is not the message here, right? Or is it? Oh, and while I'm at it, I may as well reference my deleted thread, if that counts. I was worried some were suicidal about it.
posted by Brian B. at 6:38 PM on October 29, 2011


I mean you're accusing people of dumping all over legitimate scientists. When all I see is a bunch of actual, working scientists in the same field pointing out flaws in the guy's work and pointing out that he's not publishing in a peer-reviewed journal. Just like in all the cold fusion posts.
posted by empath at 6:39 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Don't you guys have something more productive to do?
posted by crunchland at 6:41 PM on October 29, 2011


pointing out that he's not publishing in a peer-reviewed journal

But he sold it just the same, versus getting nothing perhaps. Engineers put up or shut up I guess.

Don't you guys have something more productive to do?

I hope so.
posted by Brian B. at 6:43 PM on October 29, 2011


Let's see, the medium is not the message here, right?

I don't understand this. Are not all scientific claims required to be thorough picked apart, especially ones of that magnitude? That's kinda how science works. And if someone already has a reputation for submitting hokum, yeah, you better believe their claims are going to get the fine-tooth-comb treatment.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:45 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Okay, so, Brian B.: you're claiming that Rossi actually has discovered a way of making fusion energy viable? You really think so? And nobody else has managed to make use of that? I mean, every government in the world would kill to get their hands on that. Even without considering the question of reproducibility or scientific rigor, doesn't the fact that not even one major power in the world has harnessed this putatively out-in-the-open discovery make you wonder if the simpler explanation, that Rossi is merely lying, is correct?
posted by clockzero at 6:54 PM on October 29, 2011


clockzero, it is reported that someone bought it, maybe DARPA. The Greeks couldn't afford it, the Italians have it, and Swedes study endlessly. The Chinese don't need to buy it, business as usual, they just co-opt it. I don't believe cold fusion is impossible. I don't usually find the time to deny someone else's reality or discovery when it minds its own business and didn't steal from anyone else. Oh, and I do believe his development methods were sound, which I can't say for Edison.
posted by Brian B. at 7:07 PM on October 29, 2011


I don't usually find the time to deny someone else's reality or discovery when it minds its own business and didn't steal from anyone else.

But he's stealing money from his investors, and you're promoting it, making you an accessory.
posted by empath at 7:14 PM on October 29, 2011


And I think someone stole those Junior Mints.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:16 PM on October 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


I assume at this point since two mods have said:

cortex: "Guys, take this to email if you want to keep discussing it but let's skip the free-energy-thread-by-proxy thing in here."

jessamyn: "Last request - this MeTa thread needs to not become a MeFi post by proxy."

...y'all don't give a shit?
posted by zarq at 7:17 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sorry, missed that. Checking out then.
posted by empath at 7:20 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh, right. Sorry about that.
posted by clockzero at 7:21 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


But he's stealing money from his investors, and you're promoting it, making you an accessory.

Prove it since it bothers you so much. Or is he really stealing from your sense of order? A man in white lab coat didn't deliver you your energy solution? Do you see the paranoia in accusing me of being someone else, and then an accessory to a business crime in your head?
posted by Brian B. at 7:21 PM on October 29, 2011


Brian B. it is officially time for you to get your own blog on this topic. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:27 PM on October 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


Or is he really stealing from your sense of order?

Heavens, yes! I lie awake at night worrying that my sense of order will never be the same, now that Rossi has irrefutably demonstrated the process of cold fusion. I'm shaken to the core, Brian. Shaken I tell you, like some savage contemplating the curved horizon.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:34 PM on October 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Brian B. it is officially time for you to get your own blog on this topic. Thank you.

Could you shut it down since my defense is being used against me?
posted by Brian B. at 7:35 PM on October 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I am gonna go ahead and close this up, but primarily because we don't trust you at this point to drop the subject after we've already pretty explicitly asked you to do so. You're welcome to whatever opinions you have about this research or science in general, but Metafilter is not your personal platform for soapboxing those opinions and we need you to stop trying to use it as such. Please let this drop on the site so we do not have to drop it for you.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:57 PM on October 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


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