Occupy that area over there, out of peoples' way. November 19, 2011 11:19 AM   Subscribe

Why is all news about the Occupy movement being funneled into a single thread?

Because that seems like a bad way to get news out.
posted by edguardo to Etiquette/Policy at 11:19 AM (189 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite

Because Metafilter is not designed nor intended to get news out - we really don't want the front page to edge towards a single topic, and OWS is definitely pushing it that way. We'll periodically let solid, larger-scale or major-development posts live to prevent any one from getting too out of hand, but we're going to kill most of the more repetitive ones.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 11:23 AM on November 19, 2011 [52 favorites]


We generally funnel topics into single threads so that the conversation stays coherent, and so that the front page doesn't get cluttered with a lot of unnecessary posts.

Also, the point of Metafilter is not to get news out. There are lots of better places to do that, anyway.
posted by koeselitz at 11:23 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Nothing personal, but getting the news out sort if isn't what MetaFilter is for. If people are going to be talking at length about Occupy stuff, we'd like to try to funnel that into a few active threads so that every bit of Occupy news isn't split across a ton of threads and we don't wind up with an Occupy MeFi situation.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:24 AM on November 19, 2011 [10 favorites]


That thread is the Free Speech Zone.
posted by Justinian at 11:27 AM on November 19, 2011 [48 favorites]


Alright, I'll remember that. Thanks for the prompt response.

Is there a way to direct posters such as myself in that direction in advance, without the posting-deleting-metatalking?

Like some sort of Occupy sticky?
posted by edguardo at 11:30 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


We'd keep to ourselves and clean up the place, we just want a little part of the front page. :D
posted by edguardo at 11:31 AM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


You could put some tents labeled "Occupy Mefi" right under the "MetaFilter" and it could link to the Occupy thread. Eh? Eh?
posted by edguardo at 11:35 AM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]


OCCUPY METAFILTER.
posted by auto-correct at 11:35 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


I liked the thread, and thought it worthy with the last one so gigantic, but understand why it went. I'm mostly just frustrated about the same damn people threadshitting in the same damn way in that thread instead of the requisite post-flagging move on.
posted by Blasdelb at 11:36 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Is there a way to direct posters such as myself in that direction in advance, without the posting-deleting-metatalking?

FAQ about why was my thread deleted?

But since people rarely read FAQs I'll offer some practical advice:

Learn by doing. Accept criticism humbly. Don't take getting a thread deleted personally. Accept that there are sometimes exceptions that go against "rules" or "consensus" and it might not be your post that is that exception.
posted by Talez at 11:37 AM on November 19, 2011


I'm mostly just frustrated about the same damn people threadshitting in the same damn way in that thread instead of the requisite post-flagging move on.

If it's worth rescuing mods can, will and have purged threadshitting along with a short note along the lines of "the thread is staying you can stop reporting and you can take it to MeTa if you still have a problem".
posted by Talez at 11:44 AM on November 19, 2011


Like some sort of Occupy sticky?

This is pretty much what the search function is for. Go up to the top right of the front page and type "occupy" in and you'll find a bunch of recent threads on various facets of the subject. (One caveat with search is that while it can be set to search any given subsite or all of them with a dropdown menu on the search page, it defaults to searching the subsite you're on, so a search from a metatalk thread will get you metatalk results, not mefi results.)

Tags are handy, too: ows and occupy both turn up a bunch of stuff.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:46 AM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


I think the pepper spray incident is worthy of its own thread.

I get the sense all reporting the threadshitting does is get the mods to look at the thread more quickly, increasing the chances of deletion. Double edged sword, I'd really like it if people just stopped doing it.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:47 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


From the deleated thread

That thread is 4x too large for my puny computer, I'm glad this is here.
posted by The Whelk at 1:12 PM on November 19

Do the mods take this sort of problem into consideration?
posted by Sailormom at 11:49 AM on November 19, 2011 [5 favorites]


I don't take it personally, Talez; I understand their reasons for deleting my post.

Searching "occupy" didn't turn up any posts in the last day or today, so I doubted this particular incedent had been shared. Okay, it had, that's cool.

But finding posts from days ago doesn't give people, such as myself, the impression that those threads deal with recent events.
posted by edguardo at 11:51 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Do the mods take this sort of problem into consideration?

Yeah, totally, but not to the point where we'll keep any thread on a topic. A single-link "cops did a bad thing" thread is not one we're real likely to keep.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 11:52 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think the pepper spray incident is worthy of its own thread.

They key word there is "incident". Single incidents are not usually the basis for good posts; single-link, single-incident, highly politically charged posts are routinely and rightly deleted.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:53 AM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


Do the mods take this sort of problem into consideration?

We do, yeah, but it's more a reason that we'd be totally okay with someone putting together a comprehensive new post about the state of things than a reason we'd be okay with letting something that's more "here's a bad thing that also happened" stand as some de facto new post. We'd rather someone put together something really solid if the intent is to reboot the conversation from the current established catch-all thread.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:54 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


i think a new OWS thread might have a chance of staying if people stopped writing their sure to be deleted threads like updates. a single link to boingboing about a single kerfuffle doesn't seem like a FPP. the rules for posting aren't loosened because the topic is important, in fact, the rules mostly get tightened. if you can't manage to write a full FPP and all you have is a bunch of updates than they should go in the open thread.


But finding posts from days ago doesn't give people, such as myself, the impression that those threads deal with recent events.

did you open any of the threads that came up and scroll to the bottom to see when the last update was? i mean, you were one click away from finding out they deal with recent events.
posted by nadawi at 11:55 AM on November 19, 2011


i should have previewed, once again, cortex says it better.
posted by nadawi at 11:55 AM on November 19, 2011


They key word there is "incident". Single incidents are not usually the basis for good posts; single-link, single-incident, highly politically charged posts are routinely and rightly deleted.

It depends on the incident, and the quality of the post. In general we have posts about single incidents all the time.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:56 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: i should have previewed.

Metafilter: once again, cortex says it better.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:57 AM on November 19, 2011 [7 favorites]


Searching "occupy" didn't turn up any posts in the last day or today, so I doubted this particular incedent had been shared. Okay, it had, that's cool.

But finding posts from days ago doesn't give people, such as myself, the impression that those threads deal with recent events.


Conversation about developing events tends to be a sort of long-form thing that does indeed keep going in a thread as time passes—maybe it's something that doesn't happen so much on other sites where daily update posts are common, but here you can find people continuing to talk about something a week or weeks after the post first went up, if there's more details to talk about that keep coming along.

Recent Activity (see the top menu) is a really useful tool for keeping track of developing conversations over time; if you've commented in a thread already, new comments in that thread will bring it to the top of the default Recent Activity tab; if you want to follow a thread but don't have anything to say yourself, you can favorite the thread and then similarly get updated comments in the "My Favorites" tab on the Recent Activity.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:58 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


sure, but what we don't have a whole lot of is posts about a single incident of police brutality, especially when it's part of a much bigger story like OWS.
posted by nadawi at 11:58 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


As someone who's occupying the OWS thread, I'd be happy to see a new post on the subject, but only if the post is a good post on some aspects that haven't been covered in previous posts. As outrageous as the UC Davis video is, it's a single-link outragefilter kind of thing and not good enough to stand on its own.

It's perfect for something like facebook, though, so that's where I put it.
posted by rtha at 11:59 AM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


sure, but what we don't have a whole lot of is posts about a single incident of police brutality, especially when it's part of a much bigger story like OWS.

I bet we have a post for virtually every nationally known incident of police brutality over the past few years.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:01 PM on November 19, 2011


Twitter is a good way to "get the news out."
Perhaps give that a try?
posted by Threeway Handshake at 12:03 PM on November 19, 2011


The record for longest thread on Mefi was the Sarah Palin nomination at 5604 comments, followed by BinLaden death at 4528. The currently active Occupy thread, posted when the 'crackdowns' began (which I was semi-surprised was not deleted itself for the reasons cortex stated above), is almost to 2500, still less than the BoingBoing/Violet Blue thread (not our - or my - finest hour). But it's on pace to be a record-setter, and may need to be replaced before its 30 days run out just out of practical necessity.

Also, the leaked Wall Street Memo seems like a better anchor for a thread on the same topic that is not 'the same thing', but it is already getting discussed in the existing thread.

And if your computer is not able to handle a MeFi Epic Thread, then UPGRADE NOW. It won't be getting easier, because the "interesting times" we're living in seem to be getting more cursed.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:03 PM on November 19, 2011 [4 favorites]


It occurs to me that it shouldn't be too difficult to (a) identify the key words in epic threads; (b) compare against a new post & the content of its links:l; (c) send a popup if it looks like the new post belongs in an epic thread, suggesting the user post there instead.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:08 PM on November 19, 2011


I bet we have a post for virtually every nationally known incident of police brutality over the past few years.

if that were true, there probably wouldn't be threads like this. police brutality posts have to reach a higher bar to stay is what i've gotten from the many metatalk discussions on the matter.
posted by nadawi at 12:09 PM on November 19, 2011


I would be *very* interested in a well-researched post about police tactics in protests throughout recent history and data/essays/etc. on crowd control, training, subduing actual riots etc. Research on what law enforcement techniques actually work, and so forth. If anyone feels up to it. I'd give it a shot but don't have the time right now since I'm researching footage today.
posted by stagewhisper at 12:11 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


Yes, plenty get deleted, mainly because there are too many. As Cortex said in that thread:

And to reiterate a framing of this that is a big part of how we look at it, "why are so many posts about x deleted" is a question very necessarily secondary to "why are there so many posts about x made". We have deleted many posts about police brutality/abuse/tasing in large part because there have been even more made; it is not hard to find them in the archives, they do not seem to stop coming.

posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:12 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


I've been thoroughly introduced to site functionality, people, and I know what my other social media options are. I didn't see the story here and I shared it. Notice I did not ask in this thread why my thread was deleted, but why news about Occupy is relegated to a single thread. That has also been explained to me. If you have anything left to say here, please consider me thoroughly set straight, and discuss options for streamlining this process and making Occupy news more accessible and less disruptive.
posted by edguardo at 12:12 PM on November 19, 2011


If you have anything left to say here, please consider me thoroughly set straight, and discuss options for streamlining this process and making Occupy news more accessible and less disruptive.

Well, cortex already stated what the option for streamlining and accessibility would be -- making a new post which outlines the new developments and not making it a single incident outrage post.

Be the metafilter you want to see. Make the post!
posted by hippybear at 12:15 PM on November 19, 2011


I liked the thread, and thought it worthy with the last one so gigantic, but understand why it went. I'm mostly just frustrated about the same damn people threadshitting in the same damn way in that thread instead of the requisite post-flagging move on.

I absolutely understand peoples' frustration with this. However -- and this has been a point of frustration for me that is starting to turn me a bit less sympathetic -- it's totally possible to blow right past the threadshitting. It might take practice, but it is possible to learn to read between the things that we don't like. Here's how I know: every major thread has a number of conversations that tend to branch off, and people rarely feel the need to address them all. Just pretend that the threadshitting is a particular branch of discussion that you have no interest in participating in, but you flag it before dismissing it. I think that part of what happens is that people are internalizing this in a personal, how dare they, sort of way, rather than it always being a significant inconvenience. We can also start conversations that have nothing to do with threadshitting, even while threadshitting is going on, and people will pick up on it to have a legitimate discussion.

It's undoubtedly a two-pronged solution, where flagging and encouraging people not to do that is a big part, coupled with the pruning activity of the mods. But we can also learn to pretend that the things we don't like aren't actually there. We don't have to mentally absorb every lame thing into the ongoing discussion in the thread and in our minds. It just takes some practice.
posted by SpacemanStix at 12:17 PM on November 19, 2011


Would the thread have been deleted if it had been more comprehensive? There's been letters from professors and others to the Chancellor of UC Davis. There are other similar recent incidents (e.g. Portland, NYC), and there is a long history of police using pepper spray against non-violent activists. I think this is more "police attack protesters" than "police attack OWS protesters."

I agree with the deletion of the post as-is, and I flagged it.
posted by desjardins at 12:17 PM on November 19, 2011


And if your computer is not able to handle a MeFi Epic Thread, then UPGRADE NOW.

There's an upgrade for mefi? Is this something only cabal members know?
posted by desjardins at 12:18 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


no, i think he means he's going to buy us all new computers

YAY
posted by elizardbits at 12:20 PM on November 19, 2011 [7 favorites]


furiousxgeorge - i don't really understand what you're arguing there. you said we'd have a post for every nationally known police brutality issue, i said we have a history of deleting that specific kind of post, and you answered with a quote of cortex saying we delete a lot of that kind of post and that kind of post just keeps on coming.

what am i missing?

also,i think to say that it's mainly about too many, you would have had to skip over the first two responses by cortex and jessamyn and the deletion reason that started that metatalk thread to begin with.
posted by nadawi at 12:23 PM on November 19, 2011


It depends on the incident, and the quality of the post. In general we have posts about single incidents all the time.

This is my point, I think it's been established?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:25 PM on November 19, 2011


I think it's also been established that outrage filter dogwhistle posts don't stand here. It's not like it's news that such posts are often deleted. Not just about police brutality, but about nearly any topic where the post is about a topic which seems designed to bring out the "oh, this is horrible" sympathy chorus, interspersed with a segment of "this is how life is" or "no, this was exactly right" responses.
posted by hippybear at 12:28 PM on November 19, 2011


and all i'm saying is that police brutality posts often get deleted, then you said all the major police brutality incidents will have posts, and i pointed out that we seem to delete a lot of them so they probably don't have posts that lived. then you pull a quote about cortex talking about the quality of general posts (a point i made as well in this very thread).

maybe we're discussing different things?
posted by nadawi at 12:28 PM on November 19, 2011


I honestly have no idea what you are arguing. We agree that depending on the incident and the quality of the post, we often have posts about this sort of incident?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:38 PM on November 19, 2011


again, i was specifically responding to you saying that all nationally known police brutality incidents have posts that stick around, which doesn't seem to be true because the mods often delete police brutality posts.

but, beyond that, we seem to agree.
posted by nadawi at 12:46 PM on November 19, 2011


I think The Whelk complaining about the length of the other post is hilarious.
posted by neuromodulator at 12:51 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


I think that perhaps one big misunderstanding here is the following. I don't want to see lots of OWS posts on Metafilter, because that isn't what Metafilter is for, and it clearly doesn't work well here (cf the exponentially increased levels of grar). That doesn't mean that I don't want to learn about what's happening; in fact I do care, and there are lots of places to get this information. It just means that I don't think more OWS posts are what this particular site is for. I don't think it's good to see Metafilter as being the place you go to find every single thing that matters.
posted by Frobenius Twist at 12:57 PM on November 19, 2011 [7 favorites]


That OWS thread wouldn't be so massive if people wouldn't repost every tweet and live feed update.
posted by Burhanistan at 1:05 PM on November 19, 2011


At least there's a fresh thing to quibble about in MeTa, eh?
posted by Burhanistan at 1:06 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


i think he means he's going to buy us all new computers

No, it means I'm going to sell you all new computers. I accept all major credit cards from all major ban...oops...
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:11 PM on November 19, 2011


Dear Occupiers?

ENOUGH!!!

I get it. Not only do I get it but I agree with and support you on every step of your journey, but I just dont really know what the fuck you want from me.

Yeah, my mortgage, savings account, checking account etc are with BOA. And as bad as they are screwing me and you, if I tried to change all that, all that is going to happen to me is my checks bounce, my ATM tells me to piss off for about 6 weeks, and my direct deposit to the gas company is going screw up and my house will be freezing on Christmas morning. I wish this was not so, I wish there was more justice and fairness in this world but you folks just aren't bringing it.

Take the winter off eh? I suggest that because no matter how much I believe in you, I don't want to see young people freezing on American streets.

Retreat and regroup. Find both a coherent message, and a spokesman who cleans up well. Think whatever you want of me, I am probably the most liberal tolerant bastard you will encounter, but if your message is coming from someone covered in tattoos with a ring in their nose, I will think you not very serious about the things you claim to believe in, and I am going to sweep you away like last night's breadcrumbs off my table.

These are big important things, issues that may very well change the direction the United States goes, and you are doing us all a disservice by stomping up and down like some snotty teenagers who didn't get to use the car.

I'm with you. I feel you. Grow up.
posted by timsteil at 1:23 PM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


Both supportive and tolerant, that.
posted by box at 1:33 PM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


... you are doing us all a disservice by stomping up and down like some snotty teenagers who didn't get to use the car.

Um...
The average age of the demonstrators, meanwhile, was higher than expected, notes [Costas] Panagopoulos [professor of political science at Fordham University]. “We thought it would be mostly people in their 20s,” he says, but the average age is 33. “That means for every college student you have a mid-career professional in their 40s,” he adds.

Another somewhat surprising aspect of the movement regards its financing. According to the online pay site wepay.com, its donation numbers show that the overwhelming online support comes from “average, middle-class donors,” says wepay.com chief executive officer Bill Clerico.

“The vast majority of those giving have incomes in the $50,000 to $100,000 range,” he says. The median donation amount is $22, while the average rises to $60, which shows that there are a few “very large donations sending the average amount higher,” adds Mr. Clerico. To date, his company has processed more than $325,000 in donations to Occupy Wall Street. Wepay is releasing its latest data on Occupy Wall Street on Tuesday.
Fordaham University's Center for Electoral Politics and Democracy -- Occupy Wall Street Survey Results October 2011 [PDF].
posted by ericb at 1:36 PM on November 19, 2011 [21 favorites]


stomping up and down like some snotty teenagers who didn't get to use the car.

Exactly the image FoxNews and the NewYorkTimes are trying to pain the movement with.

And those tattoos are certainly going to alienate certain people. But if you expect the Mass Media will EVER show us Occupy spokespeople who 'clean up well', you're too naive for the room. And frankly, if the movement ever unifies behind a single spokesmodelperson, I'll start humming that old Who song ('meet the new boss...')
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:38 PM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]


you are doing us all a disservice by stomping up and down like some snotty teenagers who didn't get to use the car.

[Claps very slowly and forcefully]

Bravo, sir.

Bra.

Vo.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:41 PM on November 19, 2011 [7 favorites]


ows by proxy again?
posted by lampshade at 1:42 PM on November 19, 2011


Exactly the image FoxNews and the NewYorkTimes are trying to pain the movement with.

The Mainstream Media’s Fear of Occupy Wall Street.
posted by ericb at 1:42 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


I've been overwhelmingly impressed. Not at all like pouting, over-entitled teenagers. These people want jobs and representation. One person wants a job as a librarian -- and works in the library committee. Another person wants to be a graphic artist -- and creates some pretty fantastic posters. Another person is an out-of-work developer who now develops websites for them. Another would be a journalist, and develops the Occupy Wall Street Journal while other would-be media types put together global live streams and commercials.

Not entitled and not lazy. These people are determined to work even if it's for no pay. I don't have body piercings or tattoos either, but really, do people have to look like you in order to be taken seriously?
posted by Houstonian at 1:43 PM on November 19, 2011 [19 favorites]


I'm totally fine with it being deleted, but I tried to reconcile the objection of the mods by making a post about the larger UC student movement that incorporates the incident in question but presents it as just one piece of a much larger -- and separate from OWS -- movement in the University of California system. I took great pains to present as many facts as possible without being overwhelming, and to be objective in presentation.

The UC student movement, which had no specific previous MeFi post, predates OWS and I think is worth attention on its own, especially the 2009 tuition expose from Prof. Meister and the action of the Regents recently. If this doesn't meet standards though, I understand. I was just trying to assist. I think the history behind the 3 year actions takes this out of NewsFilter territory.
posted by Chipmazing at 1:50 PM on November 19, 2011 [9 favorites]


Yeah, Chipmazing, that's a neat post - thanks for putting it together.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 1:52 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


"According to a survey of Zuccotti Park protesters by the Baruch College School of Public Affairs published on October 19, of 1,619 web respondents, 1/3 were older than 35, half were employed full-time, 13% were unemployed and 13% earned over $75,000. 27.3% of the respondents called themselves Democrats, 2.4% called themselves Republicans, while the rest, 70%, called themselves independents."*

The Demographics Of Occupy Wall Street
They aren’t all kids. Xers, Boomers, and older are also in on it: One-third of respondents is older than 35, and one-fifth is 45 or older.

It’s not all students and the educated elite. About 8% have, at best, a high school degree. And just about a quarter (26.7%) are enrolled in school. Only about 10% are full-time students.

Get a job!” wouldn’t apply to most of them. Half of the respondents are already employed full-time, and an additional 20% work part-time. Just 13.1% are unemployed--not a whole lot more than the national average.

“Tax the rich!” could hit close to home. About 15% earn between $50,000 and $80,000 annually (pretty good anywhere except in Manhattan). Thirteen percent earn over $75,000 annually, and nearly 2% bring in more than $150,000.

It may be a party, but not that kind. The movement is often identified as a liberal, even Democrat-dominated cause. But just 27.3% of respondents call themselves Democrats (and 2.4% are Republican). And the rest, 70% call themselves independents.
posted by ericb at 1:53 PM on November 19, 2011 [33 favorites]


ericb, you are awesome. Thank you.
posted by That's Numberwang! at 1:56 PM on November 19, 2011


ericb, those links might make up a good round-up FPP in the future, depending.
posted by The Whelk at 2:01 PM on November 19, 2011


I wish there was more justice and fairness in this world but you folks just aren't bringing it.

So why do you keep hurting yourself and driving away the people who want to help you? You say you want more justice and fairness well you have to work for it. You aren't letting us bring it to you. You say you get it but I don't think you do. You are letting bad people screw you because you are afraid of changing your life. I'm in the process of divesting from Wells Fargo now. It's hard and not using a massive to-big-to-fail bank is going to present challenges in the future, but this is a process. It is challenging to think of the ways that we preserve an oppressive and unjust system and it is hard to make life changes when the benefit is as incorporeal and elusive and freedom and justice.

You say you are liberal and tolerant and then in the very next sentence you write a person off as unreliable and inadequate to communicate to you because of their appearance. Go ahead and look at the aesthetics of the movement and not the message or the issues because they remind you too much of how much you are helping and tolerating those who are hurting you and your country the most because you are afraid of change and inconvenience. Go ahead and talk about your "facts of life" and how you just don't know how to change your gas' automatic withdrawal because those things aren't going to matter if things keep going the way they are going. You recognize these are big issues so why don't you want to hear about them?

If you really want justice and fairness, come out and go to bat for justice and fairness. YOU grow up and learn you have responsibilities to your community and stop your pathetic, useless whining. You should grow up and stand up for something larger than your life. As it is now, you are the infantile one because you are incapable of taking action to change society around you. You will benefit from the reforms and awareness that occupy is spreading, the same way you benefited from occupy forerunners like the civil rights movement and the suffragists and even the drafters of the declaration of independence. You are suckling at the teat of those who struggled for freedom and you are denouncing them all as childlike? Go bury your head in the sand if you don't want to hear about economic inequality.
posted by fuq at 2:23 PM on November 19, 2011 [41 favorites]


Yeah, my mortgage, savings account, checking account etc are with BOA. And as bad as they are screwing me and you, if I tried to change all that, all that is going to happen to me is my checks bounce, my ATM tells me to piss off for about 6 weeks, and my direct deposit to the gas company is going screw up and my house will be freezing on Christmas morning. I wish this was not so

Don't know what to tell you about your mortgage (other than perhaps applying through Quicken Loans -- a number of my friends have refinanced through them, and they all say the process was swift, painless, and saved them a lot of money)...

But if you're wanting to switch your bank to a credit union and need to know that everything will happen smoothly, it's been done by many people before. Here's a quick overview of exactly what you need to think about before you begin and during the process which should help you keep your thoughts straight and keep your house warm and all your bills paid.
posted by hippybear at 2:33 PM on November 19, 2011 [5 favorites]


fwiw, I am personally rooting for the OWS thread to finally surpass the Sarah Palin one as longest thread ever. So yes, funnel away I say!
posted by iamkimiam at 2:45 PM on November 19, 2011


Yeah, my mortgage, savings account, checking account etc are with BOA. And as bad as they are screwing me and you, if I tried to change all that, all that is going to happen to me is my checks bounce, my ATM tells me to piss off for about 6 weeks, and my direct deposit to the gas company is going screw up and my house will be freezing on Christmas morning. I wish this was not so, I wish there was more justice and fairness in this world but you folks just aren't bringing it.

Yeah, our mortgage is staying with Wells Fargo, because that's just how shit is sometimes.

But dude, it's not rocket science to switch your personal accounts. We just did this - we're breaking up with WF in that respect and moving to a credit union. It doesn't fix Everything In The World, but it lights a candle.

You wanna keep cursing the darkness, have at it. But just so you know, I have vastly more respect for people who occupy parks and shout and demand to be heard than I do for people who are too lazy to do some goddamn paperwork.
posted by rtha at 2:49 PM on November 19, 2011 [19 favorites]


Metafilter became 100% porn so gradually, I barely even noticed.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:03 PM on November 19, 2011 [4 favorites]


FUNNEL CAKE RECIPES PENDING
posted by Sys Rq at 3:03 PM on November 19, 2011


How do we locate deleted threads now that the deleted thread blog died?
posted by jeffburdges at 3:08 PM on November 19, 2011


The Mainstream Media became 100% porn so gradually, I barely even noticed.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:08 PM on November 19, 2011


New Deleted Threads Blog
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:10 PM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]


Everything became 100% porn so gradually, I barely even noticed you were masturbating.
posted by fuq at 3:10 PM on November 19, 2011


You were masturbating so gradually, I barely even noticed.
posted by mintcake! at 3:21 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Occupy The Masturbating Bear
posted by Burhanistan at 3:26 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hey! Leave me out of this!
posted by hippybear at 3:27 PM on November 19, 2011 [4 favorites]


I made a cake in the shape of a masturbating bear (don't ask where I found a pan in that shape).
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:29 PM on November 19, 2011


at Masturbating Mammals Emporium off 101, duh.
posted by The Whelk at 3:30 PM on November 19, 2011

From the deleated thread

That thread is 4x too large for my puny computer, I'm glad this is here.
posted by The Whelk at 1:12 PM on November 19

Do the mods take this sort of problem into consideration?
Just a little note for people running into this sort of problem: If you're using Greasemonkey, you may want to turn it off on huge threads. Doing so can significantly increase the speed with which the page loads.

For example, the "NYPD has begun clearing Zuccotti Park" thread takes me about 12 seconds to load, but if I turn off Greasemonkey, it's only about 5 seconds. And about 3 seconds of that is Firefox telling me that it is connecting. So:
  • Connecting: 3 seconds
  • Data transfer/Firefox's standard processing: 2 seconds
  • Greasemonkey: 7 seconds
As the length of the thread goes up, presumably "connecting" would remain constant (or, more exactly, unaffected), which means that eventually you're looking at about 80% of the loading time being due to Greasemonkey.

These are rough numbers of course, but I've often found essentially the same thing on other huge threads.
posted by Flunkie at 3:44 PM on November 19, 2011


in another forum i frequent, funnel cake is a euphemism for sexy times. just sayin'.
posted by nadawi at 3:46 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


if your message is coming from someone covered in tattoos with a ring in their nose, I will think you not very serious about the things you claim to believe in

Coming in late to this but I am quite serious about what I believe in. Confirmation bias is getting in your way here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:51 PM on November 19, 2011 [46 favorites]


Has anybody else noticed that less than 1% of Metafilter does 100% of the moderation?
OCCUPY METATALK
posted by eddydamascene at 3:52 PM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


At the County Fair where I live, 'sexy times' is a euphemism for funnel cake. (And 'hell on earth' is a euphemism for the live performance of another American Idol winner)
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:53 PM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


The funnel cake is a lay.
posted by Burhanistan at 3:56 PM on November 19, 2011 [5 favorites]


in another forum i frequent, funnel cake is a euphemism for sexy times. just sayin'.

At last, the lyrics to "Pour Some Sugar On Me" finally make some kind of sense.
posted by argonauta at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


> it's not rocket science to switch your personal accounts

I just did this. Re-directed direct deposit to the new one, left a little $ in the old account to cover an auto-debit in case the switch didn't happen like it should have. It's irritating but doable in a dry, heated space with no threat of being pepper sprayed.
posted by morganw at 4:44 PM on November 19, 2011


>> Like some sort of Occupy sticky?

> This is pretty much what the search function is for.

The excellent post about the UC Davis pepper spraying that put it in context (and is a much better post than a "latest incident" one) doesn't have Occupy in it, but cortex's other suggestion, the OWS tag, does find it. It doesn't have Occupy, only OccupyWallStreet.
posted by morganw at 4:54 PM on November 19, 2011


2566 total comments. 1749 since your most recent comment, last 10 shown below...

.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:56 PM on November 19, 2011


Has anybody else noticed that less than 1% of Metafilter does 100% of the moderation?
OCCUPY METATALK


Yes, and they're the only ones with an edit window!
posted by homunculus at 4:57 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


Wells Fargo has to be one of the worst. When I moved out of California and left a few dollars in the account, I saw how rapidly it was gobbled up by fees more than anything else. Now there's another Bank with $2.40 in it that they won't release to my local attorney (with signing authority) and apparently will charge me for not using their account. Time to go back to stuffing mattresses.
posted by infini at 4:58 PM on November 19, 2011


I added a few more tags to that post for easier searching, yeah.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:09 PM on November 19, 2011


I see where this is headed, I cannot support a new ows.metafilter.com subsite until we get cats.metafilter.com. Sorry 99%.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:18 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


if you dismiss people based on how they look, regardless of the substance of their message, I will think you are not very serious about thinking.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 5:25 PM on November 19, 2011 [25 favorites]


I was invited to a party tonight and I didn't go for the same reason I don't go to any Occupy stuff: I'm tired from working all day, getting home will be a bitch, most of the people there would annoy me, and if I fell asleep drunk somebody would draw something on my head.
posted by jonmc at 5:30 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


...but at an Occupy event, the person who draws on your head ma be Shepard Fairey!
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:35 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Who the hell is that?
posted by jonmc at 5:36 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Are you sure you live in New York?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:39 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Can you fake your location on the internet?
posted by infini at 5:40 PM on November 19, 2011


jonmc has a posse
posted by Flunkie at 5:48 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


Who the hell is that?

There's also a risk they might draw the URL for Google on your head.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 5:48 PM on November 19, 2011 [4 favorites]


That thread is the Free Speech Zone.

PEPPER SPRAY IN YOUR FACE!
posted by nathancaswell at 6:20 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


We don't use Pepper Spray here, we use Butter Flavor Pam!
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:30 PM on November 19, 2011


bacon grease
posted by infini at 6:33 PM on November 19, 2011


or bacon lube from the makers of bacon salt
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:49 PM on November 19, 2011


Where am I?
posted by infini at 6:51 PM on November 19, 2011


You're traveling through another dimension -- a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Free Speech Zone!
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:53 PM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


I love you
posted by infini at 6:55 PM on November 19, 2011


The important question is, what's the difference between Occupy Wall Street and Osama Bin Laden getting shot.
posted by Chuckles at 7:00 PM on November 19, 2011


One of them is legal.

This comment is a Rorschach test.
posted by Errant at 7:05 PM on November 19, 2011 [7 favorites]


Shepard Fairy once balanced 200 red plastic cups on me when I was passed out at OWS. He put it on a tshirt and made millions. Is Shepard Fairy the first ironic millionaire?
posted by Ad hominem at 7:06 PM on November 19, 2011


New Arrested Development will be Netflix Exclusive.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:14 PM on November 19, 2011


Ad hominem: I see where this is headed, I cannot support a new ows.metafilter.com subsite until we get cats.metafilter.com. Sorry 99%.

Why choose between the two? [h/t The Whelk]
posted by Kattullus at 7:14 PM on November 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


Please, infini, not in front of the Mefites.

And the difference between Occupy Wall Street and Osama Bin Laden getting shot is... this one ain't over by a long shot. In fact, it may be more closely related to the Japan Tsunami (3285 comments PLUS two Fukushima threads, one of 3168 comments two days later and another 1798 a week later) or Sarah (5604 comments plus 1776 plus 1447 during the campaign plus 1370 when she quit her day job) Palin.

And Shepard Fairy (did I misspell him earlier? can jonmc blame that for not recognizing his name?) is NOT the first ironic millionaire. That honor goes to Tony Stark... oh, wait, did you say iron-ic?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:15 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]




Business Cat is 9% of the lives.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:16 PM on November 19, 2011 [4 favorites]


I think the Fairy spelling is an ironic typo
posted by infini at 7:19 PM on November 19, 2011


Meanwhile, Shepard Fairey has created an "Occupy" version of his HOPE poster...
posted by argonauta at 7:29 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


I am liking the idea of the other 90% being anonymous (in addition to being overlooked and underserved, that is)
posted by infini at 7:33 PM on November 19, 2011


Meanwhile, Shepard Fairey has created an "Occupy" version of his HOPE poster...

Exit through the gift shop, indeed.
posted by axiom at 7:47 PM on November 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


Not going to be sold at the White House gift shop...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:50 PM on November 19, 2011


In defense of the Mefi Mod Squad, the older thread(s) are not dying while new threads are being deleted.

And as good and comprehensive as the new post is, and as good as the discussion is within it, I've seen an awful lot of overlap and repetition between that thread and the Zuccotti Park thread... and this one, with questions being asked in one that have already been answered in another. It is almost crying out for an "Occupy Everything" sticky-post.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:34 PM on November 19, 2011


“Tax the rich!” could hit close to home. About 15% earn between $50,000 and $80,000 annually (pretty good anywhere except in Manhattan). Thirteen percent earn over $75,000 annually, and nearly 2% bring in more than $150,000.


Yup - the difference is that I'm OK with 35-40% tax on my bracket, which is actually well far away from the 1%, if it brings universal healthcare, improved transportation infrastructure, investment in science, support of the arts, an affordable education and a strong middle class. That shit will make my life richer, not to mention my pocket.

It's the professional leeches, the rent-seekers, the financiers, the legal scammers running con games with other people's money on Wall Street, who are against it... because it's a zero sum game to them. A game. They are playing a game, to see who wins and who loses, and they tote it up in bank balances and shares in bluechips. Taxes get in the way of the game, so that in and of itself means they must go up, dramatically, if we as a society will survive.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:38 PM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]


No, Bill Drummond was the first ironic millionaire.

Yeah, but they made the money through record sales, then burned it. Even if he was against the concept of millionaires he didn't make money in an ironic way.

Fairey ( sorry about the name before, autocorrect does not like Fairey) created a near ubiquitous piece of street art partially as as a commentary on ubiquitous marketing. Creates a clothing line to capitalize on his ubiquitous image and retroactively negates his own message. Either it was the plan to cash in all along or that is some crazy conceptual art. Oh, and single handedly if not creates, then brings to the public consciousness, "guerilla marketing".
posted by Ad hominem at 8:38 PM on November 19, 2011


2012 would be enough
posted by infini at 9:30 PM on November 19, 2011


In defense of the Mefi Mod Squad, the older thread(s) are not dying while new threads are being deleted.

Alternatively, the Mod Squad could allow new threads as things develop.

Fukushima, Bin-Laden and 9/11 were one-off events. OWS is a different thing and shoving it all into a single big ass thread isn't going to scale.
posted by cedar at 9:30 PM on November 19, 2011


There have been long-developing topics on the site before. It's basically always been a thing where we try to keep the number of threads from getting totally out of hand by removing thinner Oh And Another Thing posts and redirecting to open, active threads, while at the same time being basically totally fine with periodic new threads on the subject as makes sense in the context of what's developed.

This is, to an extent, a description of every US election cycle the site has weathered, for example.

Fukushima, Bin-Laden and 9/11 were one-off events. OWS is a different thing and shoving it all into a single big ass thread isn't going to scale.

None of those were contained to single threads. They were big central threads for each of them, and with the possible exception of Bin Laden's killing they each had more than on big thread; that's aside from a bunch of not-so-omnibus posts.

I'm not sure what could be said to have happened with those that isn't us being functionally pretty dang permissive about people going into those topics more than once considering the general social and administrative pressure on the site against repeat posts about a topic. And the Occupy stuff has likewise had a seriously generous count of posts already and will no doubt have more.

That doesn't mean carte blanche, though, and we will continue to keep the population of posts down to at least a reasonable number. People need to keep their perspective on the fact that this place is not an issues or activism blog, that Metafilter needs not to turn into a de facto Occupy update feed in terms of posts to the front page. Following and contributing to growing threads is basically how it works here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:01 PM on November 19, 2011


Have you looked at the front page? A second Occupy-related post today, but what both of them have in their favor is a lot more than "the latest outrage" one-or-two links. I think the Moderadores are keeping their word. Just try to avoid the phrase "Surely this..."
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:05 PM on November 19, 2011


Have you looked at the front page?

Yep.

About two minutes after I wrote my, in retrospect, misguided comment, I was happy to see the new OWS related posts. I only wish I'd noticed them sooner.

People need to keep their perspective on the fact that this place is not an issues or activism blog...

Why not?

That "best of the web" ship sailed a long time ago.

If enough of the user base cares enough about a particular issue to focus on it, what's the harm? If people don't care, the "activism" threads will die of their own accord. If people do care, then we're back at the community blog thing.

Following and contributing to growing threads is basically how it works here.

Yeah, I kinda know how it works. Then again, when the "big central thread" becomes unwieldy or buried behind three pages of SLYT posts, maybe some tolerance for follow up FPP's might be in order.
posted by cedar at 10:37 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


If enough of the user base cares enough about a particular issue to focus on it, what's the harm?

There's no harm in there being periodic followup posts on an on-going topic. That's why that happens and why we are basically okay with it. The distinction between having new threads on a given subject now and then and having new threads thick on the ground on a daily basis is the important one.

The narrowing of the site's topical interest and demography by passively ceding the front page to heavy issue-specific posting would make this not so much Metafilter anymore. No topic, no event, is a reason to go in that direction; turning off all the folks not interested in seeing this place go down that path is a bigger concern for me than preventing folks really heavily following the Occupy stuff from being bummed that some posts on the topic get deleted.

maybe some tolerance for follow up FPP's might be in order.

I feel like you are responding to an alternate universe version of Metafilter where there haven't already been well over a dozen OWS-related posts. You are asking us to do something we are already doing.

If you want a higher density of posts on this subject than is already available on the front page of a generalist community blog, you need to add some topic-specific link aggregators to your reading list or something. That's not an Occupy-specific thing, that's the deal for every specific topic under the sun. Occupy just isn't some site-breaking exception.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:50 PM on November 19, 2011 [6 favorites]


Why not?

Well, why? There are ten zillion issue/activism blogs and sites - why does this need to become another?
posted by rtha at 10:52 PM on November 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


No topic, no event, is a reason to go in that direction...

Gottcha.

This is not the hill I want to die on -- especially after it was pointed out to me that I was totally wrong.

I feel like you are responding to an alternate universe version of Metafilter.


I'm just one of those old grouchy guys who likes to throw firebombs at the kids on the lawn. My alternate version of MeFi isn't as much imaginary as nostalgic, but I expect I'll adjust.
posted by cedar at 11:04 PM on November 19, 2011


I've also always wanted to fill a Piñata with spiders, just to see what happens.
posted by cedar at 11:08 PM on November 19, 2011 [9 favorites]


Now I hear mariachi music that isn't there
posted by longsleeves at 12:16 AM on November 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


All the moaning about threadshitting is sort of threadpissing in its own right. Like "troll," "threadshit" has now become code for "posts or posters I disagree with."
posted by spitbull at 4:15 AM on November 20, 2011 [5 favorites]


Threadpissers unite!

We're number 1!
We're number 1!
We're number 1!
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:55 PM on November 20, 2011


Your new word of the day is "thread-kettling".
posted by chairface at 2:39 PM on November 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


'thread spraying' or spaying as the case may be
posted by infini at 3:17 PM on November 20, 2011


/me ticks off list of bodily excretions

I'm going to adopt the practice of threadsweating
posted by zomg at 3:58 PM on November 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


> I've also always wanted to fill a Piñata with spiders, just to see what happens.

I will donate to your KickStarter.
posted by contraption at 4:53 PM on November 20, 2011 [7 favorites]


FWIW, I disagree with this askme deletion. Based on the responses alone, I think it had a very clear answer; picking on of the many that said something similar: "You never see private companies putting people on paid leave because, generally, private employers do not have to give due process of law to their employees. But public entities do." Sure, the question may have rambled a little, but no more than most relationship questions, and the point of the question was very clear, I thought.

Not a big deal either way, but that's how I felt.
posted by inigo2 at 5:18 PM on November 20, 2011


Wow, is that out of place, inigo2. Surely you meant either to use the contact form or to start a new MetaTalk.
posted by hippybear at 5:27 PM on November 20, 2011


It read more than a little rambly to me, in terms of askme's expectations; it'd more blog-post-as-discussion-prompt than question, as formulated. If parallax7d wants to try and reframe it in a more concrete way and try again next week, that's totally fine, but the question we got in this case isn't even borderline in my opinion, and the great big pile of flags it attracted suggest that's not just a weird reading on my part.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:21 PM on November 20, 2011


Like "troll," "threadshit" has now become code for "posts or posters I disagree with."

Sorry, but that's bullshit, especially because it is dismissive of people's legitimate concerns.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:49 PM on November 20, 2011


jeffburdges: How do we locate deleted threads now that the deleted thread blog died?

Literally: puke and cry passed away September 12. Metatalk.
posted by JHarris at 6:54 PM on November 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


Perhaps unwisely, I complained within the thread and was deleted so I am taking this to MetaTalk:

The posts by Marie Mon Dieu in this thread, excepting her first one, are rambling, incoherent and off-topic and should be deleted. How are tarot cards, ancient ancestors, vibrations, rosaries and dead parents remotely relevant to this topic?
posted by smithsmith at 7:43 PM on November 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


I don't see one after cortex's comment to her - am I missing something?
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:00 PM on November 20, 2011


I read that as 'vibrators' at first. You can imagine my disappointment.
posted by box at 8:17 PM on November 20, 2011 [2 favorites]


I dropped a note to her in the thread specifically because it seemed like it was sort of off the path and needed to stop, and she stopped. The Occupy threads have been very busy, lots-of-directions-at-once things in general, that tends to be the way of things with busy developing stories, and it's totally fine to flag things or drop us a line if you think something going weird and needs attention but a little bit of flexibility all around is definitely going to help keep threads from getting too brittle.

And it's totally fine to talk about it in here, but, yeah, in the original thread is not really the place for the metacommentary, which is why I removed it. Not a huge deal, just not really the right place.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:36 PM on November 20, 2011


I dropped a comment form email to the mod team after it was clear that Marie Mon Dieu was going into territory which really shouldn't have been contained the thread. I don't know whether she took cortex's recommendation to step away to heart or of she hasn't been back since, but I hope she finds the space to grieve that she needs and the support she deserves in this time of loss for her.
posted by hippybear at 8:39 PM on November 20, 2011


All the moaning about threadshitting is sort of threadpissing in its own right. Like "troll," "threadshit" has now become code for "posts or posters I disagree with."

Could this be a pony? That is: delete this kind of thing the same way you delete sexist language or other personal attacks.Ever since I read this comment I've been seeing various versions of it everywhere. It inevitably leads to a detail regarding authenticity and hypocrisy, and I'd like to ask the mods to consider taking a harsher no-tolerance view of "troll" and "threadshit." Something like: "Callouts belong in MetaTalk." I'll acknowledge some confirmation bias risks, but it seems Pretty Prevalent.
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:43 AM on November 21, 2011 [2 favorites]


Feel free to flag it at least, yeah. I've removed some comments like that in the past, and it's a bit of a judgement call depending on the context but certainly sometimes it's not really great at all.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:52 AM on November 21, 2011


OCCUPY SKYRIM
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:55 AM on November 21, 2011


I suppose 1% of dragons probably have 85% of all hoarded jewels...
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:00 AM on November 21, 2011


I think the pepper spray incident is worthy of its own thread.

They key word there is "incident". Single incidents are not usually the basis for good posts


But Dog Chases Mountain Bike? That's GOLD, baby! GOLD!
posted by coolguymichael at 10:45 AM on November 21, 2011 [2 favorites]


But Dog Chases Mountain Bike? That's GOLD, baby! GOLD!

Hi. This is metafilter, the site for sharing cool stuff you found on the Internet. I don't know if you've ever read Grover and the Everything in the Whole Wide World Museum, but (spoiler alert) it turns out that while the museum contains many, many things, the Everything in the Whole Wide World Room is an archway that leads outside. Much like the Everything in the Whole Wide World Room, the place to post Important Things That Are Important For Everyone to Know is on the Internet, but not necessarily within metafilter. For it is a place where people share cool stuff they found on the Internet.
posted by Diablevert at 10:57 AM on November 21, 2011 [5 favorites]


coolguymichael, you are welcome to start a collaborative blog featuring nothing but news of terrible shit going down. If you are unhappy that posts about things that are not terrible shit going down appear on Metafilter, you are going to continue being unhappy, because that is not going to change.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:57 AM on November 21, 2011 [5 favorites]


Wow, I was not familiar with that Grover book. What a twist!

I loved "The Monster at the End of This Book." I am horrified to discover that it was re-written and Elmo-i-fied. ELMO NOT DEAL WELL WITH SUBTLETY.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:17 AM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


I am horrified to discover that it was re-written and Elmo-i-fied

PLEASE TO PUT THIS ON YOUR TERRIBLE SHIT GOING DOWN BLOG
posted by The Whelk at 11:25 AM on November 21, 2011 [3 favorites]


READ IT AND (PRESUMABLY) WEEP
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:27 AM on November 21, 2011


I loved "The Monster at the End of This Book." I am horrified to discover that it was re-written and Elmo-i-fied. ELMO NOT DEAL WELL WITH SUBTLETY.

Gah. It's the fruitification of Cookie Monster all over again.

I propose you fight the man by inserting a pic of that Ringu girl as the last page.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:29 AM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


Dear Mr. SpiffyRob,

Damn you, sir. Damn you to hell.

Sincerely,
Dv.
posted by Diablevert at 11:32 AM on November 21, 2011


I'm pretty sure Elmo is responsible for all of the things people hate about the generation who grew up not knowing a Sesame Street without him.
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:10 PM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


I have vastly more respect for people who occupy parks and shout and demand to be heard than I do for people who are too lazy to do some goddamn paperwork.

Rtha, "people who are too lazy to do some goddamn paperwork" is also a good description of the bank employees failing to file mortgages in the correct way, as well as the ratings companies who failed to rate those tranches in a useful way, so an extra gold star for you on this excellent statement.

To be clear, I am not being sarcastic about this

Incidentally, have you (pb et al) gotten the MetaFilter infrastructure stable and replicable enough that you could roll it out as a standalone product? $500 gets you [something].metafilter.com, first-come, first-serve. Existing users get free access, and new metafilter members can bump their $5 signup by $1 for each extra site they want to access, of which half goes to the user who bought the site, and half goes to MetaFilter proper for upkeep. Of course, across the top of each such site will be a giant disclaimer distancing MetaFilter's "finely honed and expertly moderated" sites from the chaff of user-op sites.

even I do not know if I am being sarcastic about this
posted by davejay at 12:40 PM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


Maybe this identifies me as unsalvageable, but... what's wrong with Elmo? Dude likes to be tickled. Surely we can all get behind that?
posted by running order squabble fest at 12:48 PM on November 21, 2011


The short version is that by creating a character that acts and talks like a pre-schooler, the Workshop has basically made a role model out of somebody whose maturity is on par with the developing audience. Why learn to talk properly or be self-reliant? Elmo does neither and he's getting along just fine!

He also just gets entirely too much screen time, and has marginalized a number of the classic muppets as a result.

On the whole, maybe there's not much substance to it beyond a get off my lawn argument, but as someone who was juuuust old enough to be too old for Sesame Street when Elmo really started blowing up, I know I was put off by his emergence.
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:59 PM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


Elmo, in his ever-present figure as the center of contemporary Sesame Street's attention, represents an encroaching monotheism marginalizing the existing pagan pantheistic one-muppet-to-one-aspect symbolism that characterized pre-modern muppet culture.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:06 PM on November 21, 2011 [10 favorites]


As a child of '70s Sesame Street, I seek to emulate Ernie, and hope to someday sing a song with the Pointer Sisters..
posted by nomisxid at 1:12 PM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


So Elmo represents the 1%?
posted by infini at 1:13 PM on November 21, 2011


Metafilter: pre-modern muppet culture
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:16 PM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


I know I was put off by his emergence

Someone really needs to redo the final scene of Prince of Darkness with Elmo emerging from the church.

posted by Durn Bronzefist at 1:17 PM on November 21, 2011


The Grover monster book should have ended with a mirror on the last page.
posted by charred husk at 1:20 PM on November 21, 2011 [4 favorites]


He also just gets entirely too much screen time

Wasn't Elmo practically created to sell more merch? Even apart from the infantilizing-the-audience problem, he really seems like a harbinger of the total commercialization of an educational enterprise that used to be at least a bit more public-spirited.
posted by RogerB at 1:29 PM on November 21, 2011


Wasn't Elmo practically created to sell more merch? Even apart from the infantilizing-the-audience problem, he really seems like a harbinger of the total commercialization of an educational enterprise that used to be at least a bit more public-spirited.

It has been explained to me( I don't know how accurately) that, since the average age of Sesame Street viewers has declined, it was neccesary to create a character easier for them to relate to.
I'm sure there is research that will show talking in the third person is easier for children to learn or something, but intuitively, it seems wrong to model bad behaviour.

My personal beef is that he is every-damn-where on Sesame Street, and refuses to stay in his Elmo's World ghetto.

(And don't get me started on the animated Bert or Cookie Monster...)
posted by madajb at 1:35 PM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


FWIW, I disagree with this askme deletion. Based on the responses alone, I think it had a very clear answer; picking on of the many that said something similar: "You never see private companies putting people on paid leave because, generally, private employers do not have to give due process of law to their employees. But public entities do." Sure, the question may have rambled a little, but no more than most relationship questions, and the point of the question was very clear, I thought.

Not a big deal either way, but that's how I felt.


I do employment law for public employees, and a few private ones too. Private firms put people on paid leave like that all the time.

They cannot summarily fire you in most public positions. That's why they are on admin leave.

deletion was an edge case, nonetheless
posted by Ironmouth at 1:37 PM on November 21, 2011


But Dog Chases Mountain Bike? That's GOLD, baby! GOLD!

Right? The way it was super happy about racing along, and how the cameras caught that moment of unbridled joy in a simple creatures existence, it was a few minutes of pure magic that anyone who has been around dogs for any length of time can appreciate and enjoy in video form...

I've decided that the world is more fun if I pretend to not see sarcasm.
posted by quin at 2:02 PM on November 21, 2011 [7 favorites]


Elmo, in his ever-present figure as the center of contemporary Sesame Street's attention, represents an encroaching monotheism marginalizing the existing pagan pantheistic one-muppet-to-one-aspect symbolism that characterized pre-modern muppet cult.

Cortex, did you go to TESC?
posted by KathrynT at 2:14 PM on November 21, 2011


The metafilter mods are kettling the Occupy protest.
posted by Stagger Lee at 2:37 PM on November 21, 2011


Incidentally, have you (pb et al) gotten the MetaFilter infrastructure stable and replicable enough that you could roll it out as a standalone product?

No, and we don't really have a motivation to. There is already a ton of software out there to do this. A WordPress install with a few community plugins would get you started.
posted by pb (staff) at 2:38 PM on November 21, 2011


I loved "The Monster at the End of This Book." I am horrified to discover that it was re-written and Elmo-i-fied. ELMO NOT DEAL WELL WITH SUBTLETY.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Some few good memories of a VERY BAD time in my life include reading the original version to my little sister over and over and over again.

I actually thought I was helping her learn how to read; when they discovered her learning disability, she finally had the courage to tell me that she'd memorized the damn thing.

posted by epersonae at 2:50 PM on November 21, 2011


pb: No, and we don't really have a motivation to. There is already a ton of software out there to do this. A WordPress install with a few community plugins would get you started.

Didn't there used to be some kind of thing like that? I seem to remember a few MetaFilter clones out there that were built on that.
posted by Kattullus at 6:21 PM on November 21, 2011


There is already a ton of software out there to do this. A WordPress install with a few community plugins would get you started.

Gamefilter's built on Wordpress and has most of the functionality we expect here, plus some more, but not as elegantly implemented in most cases, or at least differently. I did it with a fuckton of customization, but yeah, it's doable.

Eats server resources like a bastard, though, mostly because I'm not much of a coder. I wish there were a packaged, opensourced download of the Metafilter codebase, but I understand it's probably never going to happen, for a number of reasons. Is MeFi still running on Cold Fusion?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:42 PM on November 21, 2011 [1 favorite]


PoliticalFilter ran on the CMS package ExpressionEngine. You could buy extensions to mimic some features of Metafilter or code your own.

But, EE was still a third party product, like Wordpress or any other off the shelf system. What that meant was that you were on that products upgrade cycle, not your own, for good or bad. It's not a dealbreaker, but can be annoying.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:25 PM on November 21, 2011


My girlfriend works often with small children.
When Elmo started become more popular then all other Muppets, she asked a young fan why Elmo was so great.
The answer was, "because I want to eat him."
posted by St. Sorryass at 9:04 PM on November 21, 2011 [3 favorites]


Is MeFi still running on Cold Fusion?

Night and day.
posted by pb (staff) at 9:28 PM on November 21, 2011


Wasn't Elmo practically created to sell more merch? Even apart from the infantilizing-the-audience problem, he really seems like a harbinger of the total commercialization of an educational enterprise that used to be at least a bit more public-spirited.

Elmo is pretty old. The definitive version by Kevin Clash is from 1985. I think what happened was that CTC was looking for more secure funding, and seized on marketing him all over.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:58 PM on November 21, 2011


Is MeFi still running on Cold Fusion?

Night and day


CF is old school, I got my start hacking CF. I am glad MetaFilter is still staying true to it's roots and rocking CF.

I love that metafilter is metafilter, and not a platform.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:16 PM on November 21, 2011


I think the pepper spray incident is worthy of its own thread.

Or two!
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:33 PM on November 21, 2011


I love that metafilter is metafilter, and not a platform.

Likewise. Somewhat tangentially, this is one of the reasons this place works the way it does. The back end here is all custom built stuff and now that the server is stable [and has been for years] I think we can really appreciate how flexible we've been able to be because we totally rolled our own. I don't think I've met another person who does moderation/management of online sites who has as awesome and robust a toolset for ferreting out spammers, looking for troublespots, communicating with users and staying on top of a large amount of online communication. Matt talked about this a little bit at SXSW this past year but it really is sort of awe-inspiring how much he and pb have been able to do with MeFi, despite the fact that it's a CF site.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:58 AM on November 22, 2011 [2 favorites]


Hi, not sure where to post this, but happening right now (Friday night) in São Paulo, Brazil — state governor Alckmin has issued an order to clear the #ocupasampa tents from Avenida Paulista, military police riot troops are in place. Bikers from our version of Critical Mass (bicicletada) are showing up in great numbers, things might get Interesting any moment now... Live Stream. Here's an inspiring image from earlier this month, riot police clearing the protests at USP, São Paulo University
posted by Tom-B at 5:37 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


We should have a good post about the occupy movement outside the U.S.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:28 PM on November 25, 2011


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