It's as if people are still surprised that PayPal is terrible... December 6, 2011 10:52 AM   Subscribe

So we're Outragefilter now? Or are we going with "but there's people giving PayPal alternatives which makes it barely legitimate" on this one?

I only ask because I also have some doozies from reddit ready to go.
posted by Talez to Etiquette/Policy at 10:52 AM (68 comments total)

Surely there was a less passive-aggressive way you could have raised this concern? Perhaps by emailing the mods?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:54 AM on December 6, 2011 [19 favorites]


PayPal is good for buying shit.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:55 AM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


i think the regretsy connection is part of the goodness of the post. did you read it? it was pretty funny in the way she always is.
posted by nadawi at 10:56 AM on December 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


If people would just stay on topic - the germane topic appears to be cardinality - that thread would be fine.
posted by Wolfdog at 10:59 AM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I genuinely don't understand if you are actually upset, and if so, what you are upset about. You don't like that post? Or you don't like the way it is going? Or something to do with how Reddit is better (or worse? Or quicker?) than MetaFilter? huh?
posted by dirtdirt at 11:00 AM on December 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


I deleted your comment that read, in full

PAYPAL GRAR!

I CAN HAZ FAVRITES NOW?


This thing that happened is sort of a big deal on the internet with a site a lot of people have heard of which is why people are talking about it. The post has barely been flagged and there are no comments that have been removed from it. The reason we sometimes axe things as outragefilter is because they turn into huge shouting matches that are tough to moderate and toxic to the community. This thread does not seem to be going like that, and so it's okay. I'm sorry it's frustrated you, but there is really nothing wrong with that post.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:03 AM on December 6, 2011 [7 favorites]


Any reason why you couldn't flag and move on?
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:03 AM on December 6, 2011


I'm upset because I've had more substantial stuff deleted for less just because it vaguely smelt like Outragefilter while a no thought involved two link post "LOL PAYPAL GRAR" gets a free pass.
posted by Talez at 11:04 AM on December 6, 2011


Posting something people might find outrageous ≠ outragefilter.

However, aggressively-toned, but actually quite vague MeTa posts are always shitty callouts.
posted by kagredon at 11:04 AM on December 6, 2011 [7 favorites]


I'm upset because I've had more substantial stuff deleted for less

Have you considered that maybe the mods just don't like you?
posted by octobersurprise at 11:08 AM on December 6, 2011 [16 favorites]


"substantial" as in outrage filter like this?
posted by mlis at 11:09 AM on December 6, 2011


I'm upset because I've had more substantial stuff deleted for less

You've had five posts deleted. One was a double and the other four were some variants of outragefilter (topics: police, Christians, legislation about gay people, civil liberties) combined with editorializing. I'm happy to link to them here, but part of the outrage part of outragefilter is making your post all pissed off so the only jumping off point for discuss is "Man this makes me angry." or "You're stupid to be angry about this." This post is phrased as "this is a thing that happened" [with the sort of pullquote that doesn't make me thrilled but man, direct quote from PayPal?] which is okay by our vantage point.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:11 AM on December 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


I'm upset because I've had more substantial stuff deleted for less just because it vaguely smelt like Outragefilter while a no thought involved two link post "LOL PAYPAL GRAR" gets a free pass.

Good thing there isn't a prize for having the most posts stay up.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:11 AM on December 6, 2011


Surely there was a less passive-aggressive way you could have raised this concern?

This was more aggressive-aggressive. The sarcasm just made it that much more aggressive.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:13 AM on December 6, 2011


This post is phrased as "this is a thing that happened" [with the sort of pullquote that doesn't make me thrilled but man, direct quote from PayPal?] which is okay by our vantage point.

Fair enough. I'll keep that in mind. My apologies.
posted by Talez at 11:13 AM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


you're just bad at making metafilter posts. this does not make you a bad person, however.
posted by Avenger50 at 11:18 AM on December 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


Talez: " I only ask because I also have some doozies from reddit ready to go. "

DO WHAT I SAY OR THE KITTEN SITE GETS IT.
posted by zarq at 11:19 AM on December 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


Shit get it together people, it's not even friday yet. Save something for the weekend.
posted by iamabot at 11:20 AM on December 6, 2011 [3 favorites]


Metafilter: just because you're bad at making metafilter posts does not make you a bad person.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:20 AM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I always imagine that reddit is what would happen if Metafilter didn't have mods culling crap that I (along with others) post. Reading the front page of reddit is sometimes exhausting because of so much "LOOK AT THE LATEST SENSATIONAL BAD THING THAT HAPPENED".

That honestly just scares me. Because you don't get posts like this and this coming through the pipe over there.
posted by Talez at 11:25 AM on December 6, 2011


But you do get Mel Gibson singing some kind of wah song for you.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:30 AM on December 6, 2011 [3 favorites]


Hey it was either this, or another Occupy post, and, well ...
posted by zomg at 11:56 AM on December 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


I always imagine that reddit is what would happen if Metafilter didn't have mods culling crap that I (along with others) post.

There's also something about reddit's community in its inability to comprehend basic social conventions that also contributes to why it's so frequently looked down upon. The representative crowd is the same one that would ridicule call-outs against sexism in video games with 'u mad?' type comments while simultaneously trumpeting their own religious intolerance as panacea for all ills.

Mefi has its beanplating and snarkiness but at least most everybody isn't always an asshole some of the time, different from the apathetic quest for cool legitimacy that seems to underscore almost every discussion I've had on the big subreddits. I wouldn't say that it's primarily the mods' doing in warding off OutrageFilter; Mefi's userbase about as good as it comes with (mostly) open social media sites.
posted by dubusadus at 11:56 AM on December 6, 2011


Because you don't get posts like this and this coming through the pipe over there.

I appreciate you highlighting my post as one which makes MetaFilter great, but I just checked, and the Jefferson Bible got posted there two weeks ago.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 12:16 PM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


at least most everybody isn't always an asshole some of the time

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
posted by villanelles at dawn at 12:17 PM on December 6, 2011 [7 favorites]


Is paypal really that bad? I mean, I understand they're bad in the same sense as a bank is bad. Big corporation makes lots of money using popular service has a little bit of inherent evil in it.. but i mean..

is it horrible? Should I stop using it?

(ignoring the regretsy issue atm, which was really jerky thing but I'm glad to see it resolved)
posted by royalsong at 12:21 PM on December 6, 2011


> is it horrible? Should I stop using it?

It's pretty good for its main purpose, which is to easily buy stuff on the web and send individuals money. It's easy to get upset at them when they lock the funds legitimate charitable efforts like this, but given how much scamming goes on it's not hard to see why they would.
posted by Burhanistan at 12:24 PM on December 6, 2011


I appreciate you highlighting my post as one which makes MetaFilter great, but I just checked, and the Jefferson Bible got posted there two weeks ago.

10 comments and 85 up votes in the history subreddit. Nobody is going to see that at all anywhere on the front page even if history was one of the default subreddit sets.

Not to mention your post had a lot more effort than a single link, pointed out other interesting and related pages on the site quickly instead of having to trudge through pages of stuff thats not so interesting and also brought back previous discussion that one could peruse.

It's a lot better than reddit by a country mile.
posted by Talez at 12:24 PM on December 6, 2011


I'm not going to pay a lot for that muffler.
posted by nathancaswell at 12:40 PM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


It was yet another "charity" vs. Paypal, which are kind of old hat. But people love to rage against how much PayPal sucks.
posted by smackfu at 12:49 PM on December 6, 2011


Rage, rage against the paying of the pal.

I'm obligated by my username to point out that the Dylan Thomas poem is an important counterexample to the claim that "A dainty thing's the villanelle / It serves its purpose passing well."
posted by villanelles at dawn at 12:55 PM on December 6, 2011 [4 favorites]


Can "MetaFilter: Most everybody isn't always an asshole some of the time!" be a T-shirt? Because having seen the internet in all it's glory, I would wear that T-shirt with pride.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:58 PM on December 6, 2011


'Outragefilter' is a term used by people who lack the courage of their lack of convictions.
posted by jamjam at 1:00 PM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


'Outragefilter' is a term used by people who lack the courage of their lack of convictions.

You have not described me or the other mods.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:07 PM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


At one time I might have disputed that, Jessamyn, but no longer-- and never with regard to you considering the courage you showed in standing up to some of the worst aspects of the post-9/11 hysteria.
posted by jamjam at 1:18 PM on December 6, 2011


Is it to late to add to the Awesome Post contest, a "Worst MeTa" category?
posted by timsteil at 1:24 PM on December 6, 2011


Sorry, 'jessamyn', I meant to write, and I suppose I should qualify my assertion by noting that 'outragefilter' has grated on me for a long time, perhaps leading to a buildup of an excess of spleen, which has now vented.
posted by jamjam at 1:24 PM on December 6, 2011


Is there some other better term for "look at this terrible thing! let's all discuss how terrible it is."?
posted by smackfu at 1:31 PM on December 6, 2011


Is there some other better term for "look at this terrible thing! let's all discuss how terrible it is."?

College.
posted by nathancaswell at 2:03 PM on December 6, 2011 [11 favorites]


Spleen cleanup in Aisle 4!
posted by desjardins at 2:06 PM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


If there is a "Most Deleted Threads" prize, I say we withhold it from Talez, just because.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:14 PM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I wasn't outraged, I was more like resigned to be dissapointed I guess. Like when your fuckup friend fucks up yet again. It is just paypal's nature.

Plus paypal supports helping sick kitties. Nothing sadder than I sick kitty, I imagine them in bed with a red nose and a thermometer sticking out of their littles mouths like in the cartoons. Wrapped in a shawl with a piping hot mug of earl grey tea. How cute is that.
posted by Ad hominem at 2:23 PM on December 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


At one time I might have disputed that, Jessamyn, but no longer-- and never with regard to you considering the courage you showed in standing up to some of the worst aspects of the post-9/11 hysteria.

I do not understand what appears not be possibly a quadruple negative, so I guess I'll have to point out that if you were trying to insult/compliment me, you didn't because I don't understand this at all.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:43 PM on December 6, 2011 [15 favorites]


Quantum insultiments exist in many states of simultaneous disdain and praise.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:01 PM on December 6, 2011 [15 favorites]


On the up side, this thread prompted me to look up 'beanplating' in the wiki and I now sadly understand that it is *not* covering things with an even layer of dried beans. That would have been cool.
posted by zomg at 3:32 PM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


if you were trying to insult/compliment me, you didn't because I don't understand this at all.

I am reasonably confident he was attempting to compliment you for your staunch defense of the freedom to read in the wake of the Patriot Act. For the record, I absolutely do not fail to agree in any way whatsoever.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:42 PM on December 6, 2011 [5 favorites]


Sometimes I fail to not agree, and then I don't. Just to see what it feels like.
posted by Packed Lunch at 3:46 PM on December 6, 2011


"It is untrue that the FBI hasn't not been absent from here. Watch very closely for the removal of this sign."
posted by nathancaswell at 4:02 PM on December 6, 2011


wait, I think I over negatived it
posted by nathancaswell at 4:03 PM on December 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


~Maybe I possibly don't think you didn't not over denegatived it, or not.
posted by fuq at 4:07 PM on December 6, 2011


if you were trying to insult/compliment me, you didn't because I don't understand this at all.

Just because it was in both past and present tense and has both singular and plural objects? Geez.
posted by smackfu at 4:12 PM on December 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


I watched the whole Regretsy-Paypall war develop via Facebook, and I'm glad it showed up on MetaFilter. I'm also glad that it seems like Regretsy won.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:41 PM on December 6, 2011


Sorry, 'jessamyn', I meant to write...

Why the scare quotes. You know that's her given name, right?
posted by hippybear at 6:56 PM on December 6, 2011


You don't not unsuck. Deunfuck maybeyou, I think!
posted by waraw at 7:00 PM on December 6, 2011


Is it OK for me to make a post about "Kickstopper"? Grar!
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 7:31 PM on December 6, 2011


I'm glad it showed up on MetaFilter. I'm also glad that it seems like Regretsy won.

That's something that distinguishes this from what I generally think of as "outragefilter."

"Outragefilter" as I understand it, is a post about a horrible event that has taken place that we can't really do anything about except say "That is absolutely awful" and gawk at the horribleness of it all. Maybe feel either a bit superior or more likely just helpless and angry and sad. There's no action that can realistically be taken and no discussion to be had.

That's certainly not the case here. Public pressure actually had an impact. Paypal is notorious for its shitty practices and terrible customer service, and the way they promote their donation service is disingenuous at best. They're kind of notorious for screwing people who really want to do Good Things, as well as honest vendors. The brighter the light shone on that, the better.

Hopefully it either convinces them to revise their fraud prevention policies so they quit catching dolphins in their nets (I doubt it.) Or it convinces someone else to develop a robust competitor (I hope.)
posted by louche mustachio at 7:40 PM on December 6, 2011


There's no action that can realistically be taken and no discussion to be had.
That's certainly not the case here.


True, but I don't think it's enough to just have an action item. It helped this post that the writing was entertaining, the writer has credibility, and most importantly, that this kind of post is relatively infrequent. I don't want MeFi badgering me to join shaming campaigns all the time. I want to see interesting stuff.

For me, this qualified for the reasons I listed, but YMMV on that.
posted by ctmf at 10:00 PM on December 6, 2011


I've never not been so unnecessarily not entirely uninsulted as when I have read those words - I shan't be not ignoring your warning, no way!
posted by Meatbomb at 1:05 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]




I finally got my Smithing skill up high enough in Skyrim to craft a suit of Legendary Bean Plate.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:17 AM on December 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


kagredon: "Posting something people might find outrageous ≠ outragefilter."

That's correct. It's GemFilter.
posted by mkultra at 9:09 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


er, JemFilter.

GemFilter's all about links to Ruby code with overly precious syntax on GitHub.
posted by mkultra at 9:14 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Just to keep filtering these beans ...

>> Sorry, 'jessamyn', I meant to write...

> Why the scare quotes. You know that's her given name, right?


Those look like non-scare quotes used for mention. Without them the sentence would be crazy confusing. They make it clear which part of the sentence is the part jamjam meant to write before: i.e. that jamjam is sorry for mis-capitalizing jessamyn's username, which could be construed as disrespectful. Let's read it as a classy move.

As to the previous two comments, you're on your own ...

When all quotes are scare quotes, only the scary will quote things. Cold dead hands etc.
posted by Honorable John at 9:27 AM on December 7, 2011


Since we're talking about user names, I just read a book with the word quidnunc in it. I looked it up, and it is a real word!

It first appeared around 1715, and it means a gossipy or inquisitive person, not, as we here would have all thought in context, a shadowy extra dimensional being bent on world or county or municipal district conquest! The more you know!
posted by winna at 9:37 AM on December 7, 2011


I watched the whole Regretsy-Paypall war develop via Facebook, and I'm glad it showed up on MetaFilter. I'm also glad that it seems like Regretsy won.

Yes, it was touch-and-go there for a while, but at the Battle of Farmville, the tide was turned.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:43 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


I don't know if this will pertain but it helped me. --- Rush Limbaugh - I'm half scared bringing that name up here - used to often make the comment that he made the show for the listeners not the callers.

I only contributed one thing on the blue and it was immediately deleted.

The blue is for the readers not the posters.
posted by notned at 10:55 AM on December 7, 2011


There's also something about reddit's community in its inability to comprehend basic self-righteous, humour-challenged, soft-liberal social conventions that also contributes to why it's so frequently looked down upon.

FTetc.
posted by Decani at 12:05 PM on December 7, 2011


"The blue is for the readers not the posters."

You know, I have mixed feelings about this general idea these days. For a long time, the very late nineties and early aughts, I had pretty strong feelings about message boards and lurkers.

The ratio of lurkers to posters is, most everywhere, at the very least twenty-to-one, and often much more imbalanced than that. So I long felt that the true consumers, so to speak, the "community", were the lurkers and not the posters and the priorities of the people involved should reflect this accordingly. And I still do think this is the case for certain kinds of websites.

But my experience on MeFi has challenged some of my thinking on this. I guess it's obvious, but the truth is that the people who participate have a correspondingly large investment relative to the lurkers. And those active participants are what makes the culture and community what it is. So they certainly do count for more than just the "one" side of that "twenty-to-one" ratio seems to suggest.

That said, I think this is less true specifically with regard to posting on MeFi. Posting is relatively rare compared to commenting and the quality of the posts is extremely important to its intended audience, much more so than is the quality of comments. Comments, I think, should be written in a discursive, friendly style and not too self-conscious and, basically, people just being themselves (or whoever they want to present themselves as). But posts are very much performance acts, they are quite distinctly intended for an audience. As such, the poster has a responsibility to the audience in a way that commenters don't, or don't nearly as strongly.

But I think I want to qualify this, too. Because those who frequently post are important relative to those who don't in the same way that those who participate generally are important relative to those who just lurk. Posters create that front-page sense of what MetaFilter is, it reflects their interests and their intelligence and their thoughtfulness and their effort. It reflects their investment. And so they certainly do count for something, as people who write posts. They are important.

I respect posters a great deal. I've almost posted not at all during my time at MetaFilter in my various incarnations. Part of that is that I have a high personal standard for posts and I just don't find "really interesting stuff on the web that is worth sharing with the entire MeFi community" before other people have done so, and already posted it to MeFi. I'd have to go looking for something to post and while I feel certain that this is a laudable activity for those who do it, it's just not something that feels right to me. I don't want to "perform" on MeFi in the sense I just wrote about with regard to the nature of posts. I will if I come across something that I feel, on its own terms, deserves to be posted and no one else has. But I'm not interested in performing for its own sake. Yet, obviously, posting is the necessary core of the site, it's important and, arguably, all who participate here at all have some responsibility to make the effort to post something once in a while.

But Matt and the mods have never made that a requirement or, indeed, argued anything like what I just wrote. That's admirable, I think; it represents MeFi culture of being laid-back and cool about stuff. Even so, I do feel a little guilty because of the that reasoning, that posts are so important that we have some responsibility to create them.

Over all, though, I just want to express my admiration for those who make the effort to create good posts and, not incidentally, expose themselves in some way. It is a performance act of some sort and, as such, it involves a kind of personal risk. Regardless, it's at least half of why I come to MeFi and so I deeply appreciate that people are essentially handing me stuff to entertain me. And I appreciate the degree to which they create and influence the culture of MeFi in doing so.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:09 PM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


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